A couple of data locations

['Larry Honaker' via MacVisionaries]

Greetings All,

Life in the Mac world is slowly getting normalized again. 

Three questions if I may?

1. Where in the system can I see the box files which are used by Mac mail?

2. Where in the system are the podcast stored for the app Downcast. I saw that 
reference lately and cannot put my hands on it again.

3. Once upon a time there was a hidden library under the home directory of 
Users. There was a key combination while browsing in Finder which would reveal 
the directory entry.

Any thoughts are appreciated; otherwise I will start digging into the Apple 
Support website.

Larry W. Honaker

kc8...@icloud.com

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. 
(Psalm 119:105 KJV)


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RE: SSL Certificate Madness (Rant)

[M. Taylor]

Hello Janina,  

Believe it or not, this problem came up in the beta of both Big Sur and 
Catalina.  

In fact, it drove me nuts in the early beta of Catalina.

Believe it or not, there is, if memory serves, an easy fix for this.  I think 
my solution was to set up the outgoing mail server, manually; as opposed to 
having the mac automatically configure it.

This can be done but it took me quite a while to find the option.  What I 
remember, mostly, is thinking that manually configuring the outgoing server was 
one of the least intuitive procedures I've ever encountered.  Once I figured it 
out, it was simple but as I sit here, composing this reply, I have no idea how 
to do it.  

What I do remember is that you manually configure the outgoing mail server from 
within the Mac Mail app, itself.  There is no need to delve into the Key Chain 
authentication system.

If you cannot discover a simple fix, reply and I'll see if I can locate the 
solution.

Mark


-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 1:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: SSL Certificate Madness (Rant)



Yes, I need to spout off. If you don't care, stop reading!

I generally hold my Macs in high regard. But, at times they're downright stupid.

I have a new SSL server certificate on my rednote.net server. It is correctly 
setup, and Linux validation tools find it fully acceptable.

Thunderbird has no problem using it.

Android has no problem using it.

Both of my Macs are stumped. They're still hanging on to the old certificate 
for dear life. If I show details, I can clearly see the old certificate. My Mac 
informs me it's been revoked. No kidding, Sherlock?

Nor is it sufficient to delete the Internet Account / Mail identity and create 
a new one, because the old certificate is buried in the tangle of 
authentications that's in the Utilities folder, in the Keychain app.

Growl. I want to bite someone's nose off.

https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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RE: SSL Certificate Madness (Rant)

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

It appears you can delete it using Keychain Access:
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/delete-untrusted-certificate-mac-56653.html

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 4:47 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: SSL Certificate Madness (Rant)

 

Maybe this article 
  can help.

 

On 12/23/2020 4:02 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:


 
Yes, I need to spout off. If you don't care, stop reading!
 
I generally hold my Macs in high regard. But, at times they're downright
stupid.
 
I have a new SSL server certificate on my rednote.net server. It is
correctly setup, and Linux validation tools find it fully acceptable.
 
Thunderbird has no problem using it.
 
Android has no problem using it.
 
Both of my Macs are stumped. They're still hanging on to the old
certificate for dear life. If I show details, I can clearly see the old
certificate. My Mac informs me it's been revoked. No kidding, Sherlock?
 
Nor is it sufficient to delete the Internet Account / Mail identity and
create a new one, because the old certificate is buried in the tangle of
authentications that's in the Utilities folder, in the Keychain app.
 
Growl. I want to bite someone's nose off.
 
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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 .
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Free Mac class

['Kliph' via MacVisionaries]

Before I start, do not, I repeat, do not reply on list.  The info to register 
is in the next section

Starting January 4th, 2021, the TTJTech.net  instructor 
team will be offering a free Mac course.  Whether you are new to the Mac, 
coming from windows, or just want to brush up on your current skills this class 
is for you.  To get more info about this free class, just send an email to
sturi...@icloud.com 
And use the subject line 
Month with the Mac
We will get you registered and ready to learn your Mac.  The deadline to 
register is Monday December 28th at 12 central.

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Re: SSL Certificate Madness (Rant)

[Steve Matzura]

Maybe this article 
 can help.



On 12/23/2020 4:02 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:



Yes, I need to spout off. If you don't care, stop reading!

I generally hold my Macs in high regard. But, at times they're downright
stupid.

I have a new SSL server certificate on my rednote.net server. It is
correctly setup, and Linux validation tools find it fully acceptable.

Thunderbird has no problem using it.

Android has no problem using it.

Both of my Macs are stumped. They're still hanging on to the old
certificate for dear life. If I show details, I can clearly see the old
certificate. My Mac informs me it's been revoked. No kidding, Sherlock?

Nor is it sufficient to delete the Internet Account / Mail identity and
create a new one, because the old certificate is buried in the tangle of
authentications that's in the Utilities folder, in the Keychain app.

Growl. I want to bite someone's nose off.



--
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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SSL Certificate Madness (Rant)

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, I need to spout off. If you don't care, stop reading!

I generally hold my Macs in high regard. But, at times they're downright
stupid.

I have a new SSL server certificate on my rednote.net server. It is
correctly setup, and Linux validation tools find it fully acceptable.

Thunderbird has no problem using it.

Android has no problem using it.

Both of my Macs are stumped. They're still hanging on to the old
certificate for dear life. If I show details, I can clearly see the old
certificate. My Mac informs me it's been revoked. No kidding, Sherlock?

Nor is it sufficient to delete the Internet Account / Mail identity and
create a new one, because the old certificate is buried in the tangle of
authentications that's in the Utilities folder, in the Keychain app.

Growl. I want to bite someone's nose off.

https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 On 12/23/20, 14:17, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com"  wrote:Where on earth did you discover that key command?  On 12/23/2020 11:04 AM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:> Use CTRL + CMD + Shift + t to add elements like programs to the Dock. Open elements from the Dock works like you are used to.> > >> Am 23.12.2020 um 16:21 schrieb Mike Arrigo :>> >> So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if it's a bit easier for some things.>> I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.>> Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since I usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when opening the context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover up and down commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow keys will not work.>> I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous operating systems, when an application requested to use the notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.>> I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some of them to be major.>> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.>> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.>> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3ab697a4.3364.4694.b277.4bcb483b4776%40samobile.net.>>  -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/b3ce5266-e911-c679-593b-0b5cf656d2ab%40noisynotescom. 



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Re: system voice irritation

[jean parker]

Hi Jonathan:

This sounds like something I would like to explore with my particular use case 
scenario. Perhaps for the specifics we should take it off line for now?
radiofore...@gmail.com

Thanks, Jean


> On 23 Dec 2020, at 8:34 am, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> My apologies for not answering you sooner. If all you want to do is switch to 
> a different application, that is very easy in VoiceOver. Just look at the 
> keyboard commander for left-option M start mail. If you need more specifics 
> then let me know. 
> A AppleScript can combine two or more actions in one script file, even to 
> different applications.
> So, we could tell applescript to quit, launch quicktime make it the frontmost 
> application and with about 4 lines of AppleScript, or JavaScript. 
> If you want something like this script, I am off work for the next week, and 
> would not mind writing it.
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 12:02 AM jean parker  wrote:
> Jonathan:
> Would that turn on quicktime from anywhere? The problems isn’t really 
> starting play but navigating from zoom to the video player. If quick time or 
> whatever could be started from zoom that would make it possible to turn off 
> voice over thereby eliminating the possibility of the system voice 
> interfering with things. 
> VLC is a bit easier to manage. For whatever reason, the hot keys in Quicktime 
> have never worked correctly for me. 
> Jean
> 
> 
> > On 5 Dec 2020, at 7:05 pm, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> > 
> > For QuickTime, I am sure I could create an AppleScript that just tells 
> > quicktime to either toggle playing or start playing. I don't know if VLC 
> > accepts apple events, but at least you could create a automation that would 
> > tell VLC to open a file.
> > In terminal this would be something close to:
> > open -a vlc myMP3File.mp3 
> > Which could be encapsulated into a AppleScript or Automation with the "do 
> > shell script" command.
> > Feel free to write me off list if you want details on doing this.
> > 
> >   Best wishes,
> > 
> > Jonathan Cohn
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> On Dec 3, 2020, at 22:42, jean parker  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Sometimes the screen share doesn’t go directly to vlc or quicktime though 
> >> so it would be difficult to know where you are when command shifting 
> >> around. I will do further experiments however.
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On 3 Dec 2020, at 8:16 pm, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> When I do a screen share on Zoom, I am usually playing some kind of 
> >>> content using QuickTime Player, which I have cued-up and ready to play.  
> >>> As soon as I begin Zoom screen share, I turn off VoiceOver, and CMD + Tab 
> >>> to the QuickTime Player app, and hit the Spacebar to begin play.  when 
> >>> the program is done, I CMD + Tab back to Zoom, and stop screen share 
> >>> using the keyboard command, then I turn VoiceOver back on.
> >>> I’ve done this many times, and have the routine down.  It all goes well, 
> >>> until something goes wrong, and then I have to problem solve, which I am 
> >>> also pretty good at doing. 
> >>> 
> >>> - Brad -
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:10, jean parker  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> How do you keep track of where are? For example, when you share a video 
> >>> and you need to switch apps to get to the video player how do you know 
> >>> where you are if vo is off?
> >>> Once you are in the app you can use hot keys or whatever.
> >>> 
> >>> BTW, are you using Big Sur? I am having some issues, not really 
> >>> access-related but still.
> >>> 
> >>> Anyway thanks for getting back to me on this.
> >>> Jean
> >>> 
> >>> 
>  On 3 Dec 2020, at 4:04 pm, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>  
>  I have never enabled the voice through, Accessibility > Speech, so I am 
>  not experiencing any issues with silencing speech during a Zoom Screen 
>  Share.
>  When Screen Sharing, I turn off VoiceOver until I am done, and have been 
>  doing it this way for a long time with out any issue.
>  
>  - Brad -
>  
>  
>  On Dec 3, 2020, at 16:56, jean parker  wrote:
>  
>  Hi:
>  
>  Yes, I read your message and followed the directions. No luck getting 
>  rid of it though.
>  
>  
> > On 3 Dec 2020, at 3:54 pm, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> > 
> > Routing VoiceOver to an external sound device or bluetooth headset, 
> > does not resolve the issue of speech during a Zoom Screen Share, 
> > because the system voice that has been enabled in Accessibility > 
> > Speech is not VoiceOver, and is not affected by rerouting VoiceOver.
> > The issue can only be resolved by turning off the accessibility voice
> > 
> > - Brad -
> > 
> > 
> > On Dec 3, 2020, at 16:04, radiof...@gmail.com  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Hello All:
> > I have been following the system voice thread with some interest. The 
> > fact that the system voice can not be turned off is a constant 
> > annoyance. I have reported this to 

Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, opening an app from the dock works fine, the issue is opening the 
context menu for a dock item in order to add or remove it from the 
dock, that currently does not work.

Original message:
Things may work differently on the Intel Macs as opposed to the new M1 
Macs, but Mike I am still able to open an app from the dock with 
VO+spacebar. I am unable to access the menu from the dock to get to the 
open command.



The VO command does open the app, however.


I agree that there are some serious bug issues, but I do believe we 
have to try and move forward and just keep pressure on Apple to fix the 
problems.



Larry W. Honaker



kc8...@icloud.com



Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
(Psalm 119:105 KJV)




On Dec 23, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going 
to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still 
think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I 
figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if 
it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an 
acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications 
folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock 
for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the 
applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having 
so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines 
how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since 
this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting 
does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new 
messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right 
of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If 
you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, 
once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there 
and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since I 
usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the 
messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the 
messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to 
select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when 
opening the context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover 
up and down commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow 
keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the 
notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to 
allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not 
appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press 
VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some 
of them to be major.



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Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

[Steve Matzura]

Where on earth did you discover that key command?


On 12/23/2020 11:04 AM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:

Use CTRL + CMD + Shift + t to add elements like programs to the Dock. Open 
elements from the Dock works like you are used to.



Am 23.12.2020 um 16:21 schrieb Mike Arrigo :

So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going to stick 
with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still think that Apple 
has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I figure there's no point 
going back to an old operating system even if it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an acceptable 
work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications folder every time I 
want to open an app which is what I used the dock for. Since this is currently 
not possible, I have made aliases for the applications I use the most and put 
them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would consider 
to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having so much trouble 
with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines how groups are handled, I 
usually use the bookend groups option since this eliminates the need to 
interact with items as much. This setting does not currently work with the 
messages app. Basically the new messages app has two sections, the 
conversations list and to the right of that is the area where the selected 
conversation is displayed. If you use one of the other voiceover group settings 
besides standard, once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get 
stuck there and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. 
Since I usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the 
messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the messages 
app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to select a 
conversation, you must interact with the conversations list and use voiceover 
to select the conversation you want. Also, when opening the context menu for a 
conversation, you must use the voiceover up and down commands to move through 
the menu, using the regular arrow keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the notification 
center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to allow or deny the 
request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not appear or Voiceover does not 
see them. You have to press VO+command+space to open the actions menu to 
respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some of them 
to be major.

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Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

[Steve Matzura]

I'm so glad to read these comments from you, Mike, as I've found all of 
them myself before I read your post and thought maybe I was doing 
something wrong. I haven't gone as far as you did with Messages and 
making application aliases and putting them on the desktop, but I just 
might. Thanks for making me really feel like I know what I'm doing (LOL) 
which I often don't--know what I'm doing, that is!



On 12/23/2020 10:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going 
to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still 
think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I 
figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if 
it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an 
acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications 
folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock 
for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the 
applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having 
so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines 
how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since 
this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting 
does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new 
messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right 
of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If 
you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, 
once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there 
and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since 
I usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for 
the messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike 
the messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow 
keys to select a conversation, you must interact with the 
conversations list and use voiceover to select the conversation you 
want. Also, when opening the context menu for a conversation, you must 
use the voiceover up and down commands to move through the menu, using 
the regular arrow keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the 
notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to 
allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not 
appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press 
VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some 
of them to be major.




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Re: Amadeus pro playback question

['Kliph' via MacVisionaries]

You can also use the tab key to start play back

Want to listen to the Bible dramatized? Get it from my Audio Bible Folder 

You will need at least 15GB of iCloud Drive storage
Like a variety of Ring tones and alerts? Explore my collection 

  You will need at least 9GB of iCloud storage, Enjoy!

> On Dec 22, 2020, at 3:02 PM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> When I open a song in Amadeus Pro, pressing space does not start playback.  
> Do I need to be focused on a particular area on the screen?
> 
> Chris
> 
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Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Yes I hope so too.
If we all report these issues to accessibility then they hopefully get fixed.
/A

> 23 dec. 2020 kl. 16:21 skrev Mike Arrigo :
> 
> So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going to 
> stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still think that 
> Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I figure there's no 
> point going back to an old operating system even if it's a bit easier for 
> some things.
> I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an acceptable 
> work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications folder every time 
> I want to open an app which is what I used the dock for. Since this is 
> currently not possible, I have made aliases for the applications I use the 
> most and put them on my desktop.
> Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
> consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having so much 
> trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines how groups are 
> handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since this eliminates the 
> need to interact with items as much. This setting does not currently work 
> with the messages app. Basically the new messages app has two sections, the 
> conversations list and to the right of that is the area where the selected 
> conversation is displayed. If you use one of the other voiceover group 
> settings besides standard, once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover 
> will get stuck there and you cannot get out of this section and go to the 
> other one. Since I usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an 
> activity for the messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. 
> Unlike the messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow 
> keys to select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
> and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when opening the 
> context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover up and down 
> commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow keys will not work.
> I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
> operating systems, when an application requested to use the notification 
> center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to allow or deny the 
> request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not appear or Voiceover does 
> not see them. You have to press VO+command+space to open the actions menu to 
> respond to the notification.
> I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some of them 
> to be major.
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
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Re: Amadeus pro playback question

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
No I don't think so.
I tried to open a wave file and when I pressed space bar things works as it 
should.
/A

> 22 dec. 2020 kl. 22:02 skrev Chris Moore :
> 
> Hello,
> When I open a song in Amadeus Pro, pressing space does not start playback.  
> Do I need to be focused on a particular area on the screen?
> 
> Chris
> 
> -- 
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Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

[Jürgen Fleger]

Use CTRL + CMD + Shift + t to add elements like programs to the Dock. Open 
elements from the Dock works like you are used to.


> Am 23.12.2020 um 16:21 schrieb Mike Arrigo :
> 
> So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going to 
> stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still think that 
> Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I figure there's no 
> point going back to an old operating system even if it's a bit easier for 
> some things.
> I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an acceptable 
> work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications folder every time 
> I want to open an app which is what I used the dock for. Since this is 
> currently not possible, I have made aliases for the applications I use the 
> most and put them on my desktop.
> Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
> consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having so much 
> trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines how groups are 
> handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since this eliminates the 
> need to interact with items as much. This setting does not currently work 
> with the messages app. Basically the new messages app has two sections, the 
> conversations list and to the right of that is the area where the selected 
> conversation is displayed. If you use one of the other voiceover group 
> settings besides standard, once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover 
> will get stuck there and you cannot get out of this section and go to the 
> other one. Since I usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an 
> activity for the messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. 
> Unlike the messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow 
> keys to select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
> and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when opening the 
> context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover up and down 
> commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow keys will not work.
> I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
> operating systems, when an application requested to use the notification 
> center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to allow or deny the 
> request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not appear or Voiceover does 
> not see them. You have to press VO+command+space to open the actions menu to 
> respond to the notification.
> I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some of them 
> to be major.
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
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> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

['Larry Honaker' via MacVisionaries]

Things may work differently on the Intel Macs as opposed to the new M1 Macs, 
but Mike I am still able to open an app from the dock with VO+spacebar. I am 
unable to access the menu from the dock to get to the open command.

The VO command does open the app, however.

I agree that there are some serious bug issues, but I do believe we have to try 
and move forward and just keep pressure on Apple to fix the problems.

Larry W. Honaker

kc8...@icloud.com

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. 
(Psalm 119:105 KJV)


> On Dec 23, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going to 
> stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still think that 
> Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I figure there's no 
> point going back to an old operating system even if it's a bit easier for 
> some things.
> I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an acceptable 
> work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications folder every time 
> I want to open an app which is what I used the dock for. Since this is 
> currently not possible, I have made aliases for the applications I use the 
> most and put them on my desktop.
> Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
> consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having so much 
> trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines how groups are 
> handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since this eliminates the 
> need to interact with items as much. This setting does not currently work 
> with the messages app. Basically the new messages app has two sections, the 
> conversations list and to the right of that is the area where the selected 
> conversation is displayed. If you use one of the other voiceover group 
> settings besides standard, once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover 
> will get stuck there and you cannot get out of this section and go to the 
> other one. Since I usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an 
> activity for the messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. 
> Unlike the messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow 
> keys to select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
> and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when opening the 
> context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover up and down 
> commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow keys will not work.
> I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
> operating systems, when an application requested to use the notification 
> center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to allow or deny the 
> request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not appear or Voiceover does 
> not see them. You have to press VO+command+space to open the actions menu to 
> respond to the notification.
> I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some of them 
> to be major.
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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> 
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Re: system voice irritation

[Jonathan Cohn]

My apologies for not answering you sooner. If all you want to do is switch
to a different application, that is very easy in VoiceOver. Just look at
the keyboard commander for left-option M start mail. If you need more
specifics then let me know.
A AppleScript can combine two or more actions in one script file, even to
different applications.
So, we could tell applescript to quit, launch quicktime make it the
frontmost application and with about 4 lines of AppleScript, or JavaScript.
If you want something like this script, I am off work for the next week,
and would not mind writing it.


On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 12:02 AM jean parker  wrote:

> Jonathan:
> Would that turn on quicktime from anywhere? The problems isn’t really
> starting play but navigating from zoom to the video player. If quick time
> or whatever could be started from zoom that would make it possible to turn
> off voice over thereby eliminating the possibility of the system voice
> interfering with things.
> VLC is a bit easier to manage. For whatever reason, the hot keys in
> Quicktime have never worked correctly for me.
> Jean
>
>
> > On 5 Dec 2020, at 7:05 pm, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> >
> > For QuickTime, I am sure I could create an AppleScript that just tells
> quicktime to either toggle playing or start playing. I don't know if VLC
> accepts apple events, but at least you could create a automation that would
> tell VLC to open a file.
> > In terminal this would be something close to:
> > open -a vlc myMP3File.mp3
> > Which could be encapsulated into a AppleScript or Automation with the
> "do shell script" command.
> > Feel free to write me off list if you want details on doing this.
> >
> >   Best wishes,
> >
> > Jonathan Cohn
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 3, 2020, at 22:42, jean parker  wrote:
> >>
> >> Sometimes the screen share doesn’t go directly to vlc or quicktime
> though so it would be difficult to know where you are when command shifting
> around. I will do further experiments however.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 3 Dec 2020, at 8:16 pm, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> When I do a screen share on Zoom, I am usually playing some kind of
> content using QuickTime Player, which I have cued-up and ready to play.  As
> soon as I begin Zoom screen share, I turn off VoiceOver, and CMD + Tab to
> the QuickTime Player app, and hit the Spacebar to begin play.  when the
> program is done, I CMD + Tab back to Zoom, and stop screen share using the
> keyboard command, then I turn VoiceOver back on.
> >>> I’ve done this many times, and have the routine down.  It all goes
> well, until something goes wrong, and then I have to problem solve, which I
> am also pretty good at doing.
> >>>
> >>> - Brad -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:10, jean parker  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> How do you keep track of where are? For example, when you share a
> video and you need to switch apps to get to the video player how do you
> know where you are if vo is off?
> >>> Once you are in the app you can use hot keys or whatever.
> >>>
> >>> BTW, are you using Big Sur? I am having some issues, not really
> access-related but still.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway thanks for getting back to me on this.
> >>> Jean
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 3 Dec 2020, at 4:04 pm, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
>  I have never enabled the voice through, Accessibility > Speech, so I
> am not experiencing any issues with silencing speech during a Zoom Screen
> Share.
>  When Screen Sharing, I turn off VoiceOver until I am done, and have
> been doing it this way for a long time with out any issue.
> 
>  - Brad -
> 
> 
>  On Dec 3, 2020, at 16:56, jean parker  wrote:
> 
>  Hi:
> 
>  Yes, I read your message and followed the directions. No luck getting
> rid of it though.
> 
> 
> > On 3 Dec 2020, at 3:54 pm, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> >
> > Routing VoiceOver to an external sound device or bluetooth headset,
> does not resolve the issue of speech during a Zoom Screen Share, because
> the system voice that has been enabled in Accessibility > Speech is not
> VoiceOver, and is not affected by rerouting VoiceOver.
> > The issue can only be resolved by turning off the accessibility voice
> >
> > - Brad -
> >
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2020, at 16:04, radiof...@gmail.com <
> radiofore...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All:
> > I have been following the system voice thread with some interest.
> The fact that the system voice can not be turned off is a constant
> annoyance. I have reported this to Apple and asked for a feature request or
> whatever they call it. This is particularly problematic when doing screen
> sharing in zoom or other platforms. Rerouting voiceover to a usb headset or
> other external sound card renders inconsistent results at best.
> > If others feel the same way please let Apple know.
> > Jean
> >
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries 

an update on my Big Sur experience

[Mike Arrigo]

So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going 
to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still 
think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I 
figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if 
it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an 
acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications 
folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock 
for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the 
applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having 
so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines 
how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since 
this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting 
does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new 
messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right 
of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If 
you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, 
once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there 
and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since I 
usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the 
messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the 
messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to 
select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when 
opening the context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover 
up and down commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow 
keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the 
notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to 
allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not 
appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press 
VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some 
of them to be major.


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