Re: more on Just PRess Record
This issue has nothing to do with the Just Press Record software. Sounds to me like you do not have an active microphone. - Brad - On May 25, 2024, at 21:02, Lorie McCloud wrote: I did find some settings. it says there’s no microphone available. would that mean it doesn’t work on a Mac mini? even if I had an external mic hooked up to it would that work in this program? -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3D464B97-7475-43B9-B3C3-399769E2A816%40gmail.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A0FEA8A3-6E24-4087-825C-8690E8A53B2B%40swbell.net.
more on Just PRess Record
I did find some settings. it says there’s no microphone available. would that mean it doesn’t work on a Mac mini? even if I had an external mic hooked up to it would that work in this program? -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3D464B97-7475-43B9-B3C3-399769E2A816%40gmail.com.
Just PRess Record
I tried several times to record something today and the recordings appear to. be there in the Just Press Record folder in m4a format but they won’t play either with vlc or Quicktime. Quicktime says they’re not compatible with it and vlc doesn’t say anything, just doesn’t play them. I’m doing this on my Mac. if there are any settings in the program anywhere I can’t find them. how does this work? thanks. Lorie -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/710050B4-768C-4CCF-8040-017C27A476E8%40gmail.com.
Re: VMware's Fusion now free for personal use!
And you can describe a vmware fusion virtual machine is like an app on your home screen. For example apple music and dropbox is the two first apps from top left to the right. The third app could be windows 11 and the number 4 app could be linux. You hit the windows 11 app and it starts up and you are inside windows 11. you are basically using a windows 11 machine.start menu, desktop all programs apps you want to install and buy. The windows 11 app is a little bit more harder to install, but if it gets accessible everybody can install it. It is really cool experience. And useful of cource. It a few years since i used it myself. I am hoping to test again sometime soon. Eiret > 25. mai 2024 kl. 23:01 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries > : > > Did Broad.com take over VMware? If so, did they keep user accounts? > > From E.T.'s Keyboard... > "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much." > -Helen Keller > My e-Mail: > ancient.ali...@icloud.com > >> On 5/25/2024 11:04 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote: >> Dear All: >> Broadcom has recently announced that personal use of VMware Fusion will >> henceforth be free of charge. The instructions for getting a free copy >> seem a bit contorted, but they were never all that easy from VMware easy >> in my experience! >> The following link details how to get a copy for personal use and also >> points to the announcement from Broadcom: >> https://www.mikeroysoft.com/post/download-fusion-ws/ >> I plan to get Fusion on my laptop in the next week or so, so I'll follow >> up here with any observations based on my experience. >> Best, >> Janina > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/aa987d4b-be6c-4ae9-9a05-f72cd0f14cff%40icloud.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CE5DDBAE-9B11-4612-BBD9-A1B3DB46ADD3%40gmail.com.
Re: VMware's Fusion now free for personal use!
Did Broad.com take over VMware? If so, did they keep user accounts? From E.T.'s Keyboard... "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much." -Helen Keller My e-Mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com On 5/25/2024 11:04 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote: Dear All: Broadcom has recently announced that personal use of VMware Fusion will henceforth be free of charge. The instructions for getting a free copy seem a bit contorted, but they were never all that easy from VMware easy in my experience! The following link details how to get a copy for personal use and also points to the announcement from Broadcom: https://www.mikeroysoft.com/post/download-fusion-ws/ I plan to get Fusion on my laptop in the next week or so, so I'll follow up here with any observations based on my experience. Best, Janina -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/aa987d4b-be6c-4ae9-9a05-f72cd0f14cff%40icloud.com.
Re: HTML question.
I am not unfortunately. Everything I get back to test has already gone through our QA department and had the worst of what was wrong with it to begin with already fixed, and I just go over it in the end to make sure everything works the way it's supposed to. So it’s tricky to figure out sometimes if the buttons that don’t expand when I need them to are an issue with the site itself, or more to due with the template we’re using in Squarespace itself, that there’s little we can do about resolving. We’ve had the same issue regarding speed bumps that pop up a x sign letting you know you’re about to leave the site you’re on and go to a third-party site that I’ve finally just chalked up to Safari not knowing how to handle them properly, since I have to constantly restart Voiceover to get them to activate, then they will for a while, then they’ll just sit there and do nothing. However, when testing these links in Chrome, they seem to behave themselves just fine. > On May 25, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: > > OK, now I understand better where you’re coming from. I’ve always wondered > about the accessibility of Square space and its equivalence. That is a great > asset that you’re improving it. I guess the next question is are you at all > familiar with the developer tool within the browser that you primarily use be > that safari or Chrome. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 25, 2024, at 3:36 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >> wrote: >> >> Got it! >> >> So, I gather you're more or less up to speed on markup errors that you >> need to know about to do your auditing job. Yes? >> >> Now you're learning HTML in an ostensibly more structured way, i.e. >> using online courses from W3Schools. Can you say why? Do you have a >> specific goal for that knowledge and skillset? >> >> I don't know about you, but I've always thrived better in in person >> classes where I can get guidance and support from a teacher willing to >> understand the strengths and challenges I bring into class. Very likely >> these are not exactly what my classmates bring to the party. Not all >> teachers are good at that, just as sighted colleagues aren't always good >> at understanding the nonvisual framwork from which you operate. However, >> the ones that do can be enormously helpful in guiding one into what to >> study hard and what you can safely ignore for now. A self-guided on line >> curriculum isn't going to give you that unless it happens to be an >> online course built for blind users, such as come from Hadley. >> >> To take it back to your first post, you do need to understand and deal >> with div and class; but, you should be clear which is HTML and which is >> CSS. Because, if you don't, you're just ticking off boxes based on a >> partial understanding. I've never found that kind of partial >> understanding all that useful, personally. >> >> Janina >> >> Jessica Moss writes: >>> Ok, so in a nutshell, I audit web sites I???ve been sent either through >>> squarespace that haven???t gone live yet, or am sent ones that already have >>> to recheck to make sure links are clickable via screenreader/keyboard, >>> links/elements have proper alt text, and accordion style buttons expand and >>> collapse when they???re supposed to, and that Voiceover reads out when they >>> do just that. If this isn???t happening, I audit my findings in a >>> spreadsheet in excel and send my findings back. So there???s been a goal >>> in place for me for years for me to learn HTML and I???ve been simply >>> trying to navigate my way through w3schools, but since the main things >>> I???d be needing to focus on appear to be 1 of 3 things, adding proper alt >>> text to links that just say dreaded things like ???click here,??? ???learn >>> more??? etc., adding alt text to a completely blank Iframe, that most >>> sighted people don???t think needs alt text, because to them it just looks >>> like a window they can see through to find what???s imbedded into the site, >>> and last but not least, figuring out what???s not making an expandable >>> button expand the way it needs to be, or if it is, why it???s not reading >>> out why it???s expanded. >>> So with all that being said, I think I just need a better understanding of >>> what lessons I can skip over for now in order to find what I need to work >>> with in order to learn to make that happen. >>> > On May 25, 2024, at 2:45???PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > wrote: Hi Jessica: This will be a somewhat longer response to your question and I hope it's helpful. Apologies in advance if it's not as comprehensive as I would like to make it, i.e. with relevant links for good additional info, etc., etc. My first comment is an observation about getting help from sighted colleagues. Frankly, they often don't know how to talk to us blind folks. That's true in digital environs just as it
Re: HTML question.
OK, now I understand better where you’re coming from. I’ve always wondered about the accessibility of Square space and its equivalence. That is a great asset that you’re improving it. I guess the next question is are you at all familiar with the developer tool within the browser that you primarily use be that safari or Chrome. Sent from my iPhone > On May 25, 2024, at 3:36 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > wrote: > > Got it! > > So, I gather you're more or less up to speed on markup errors that you > need to know about to do your auditing job. Yes? > > Now you're learning HTML in an ostensibly more structured way, i.e. > using online courses from W3Schools. Can you say why? Do you have a > specific goal for that knowledge and skillset? > > I don't know about you, but I've always thrived better in in person > classes where I can get guidance and support from a teacher willing to > understand the strengths and challenges I bring into class. Very likely > these are not exactly what my classmates bring to the party. Not all > teachers are good at that, just as sighted colleagues aren't always good > at understanding the nonvisual framwork from which you operate. However, > the ones that do can be enormously helpful in guiding one into what to > study hard and what you can safely ignore for now. A self-guided on line > curriculum isn't going to give you that unless it happens to be an > online course built for blind users, such as come from Hadley. > > To take it back to your first post, you do need to understand and deal > with div and class; but, you should be clear which is HTML and which is > CSS. Because, if you don't, you're just ticking off boxes based on a > partial understanding. I've never found that kind of partial > understanding all that useful, personally. > > Janina > > Jessica Moss writes: >> Ok, so in a nutshell, I audit web sites I???ve been sent either through >> squarespace that haven???t gone live yet, or am sent ones that already have >> to recheck to make sure links are clickable via screenreader/keyboard, >> links/elements have proper alt text, and accordion style buttons expand and >> collapse when they???re supposed to, and that Voiceover reads out when they >> do just that. If this isn???t happening, I audit my findings in a >> spreadsheet in excel and send my findings back. So there???s been a goal in >> place for me for years for me to learn HTML and I???ve been simply trying to >> navigate my way through w3schools, but since the main things I???d be >> needing to focus on appear to be 1 of 3 things, adding proper alt text to >> links that just say dreaded things like ???click here,??? ???learn more??? >> etc., adding alt text to a completely blank Iframe, that most sighted people >> don???t think needs alt text, because to them it just looks like a window >> they can see through to find what???s imbedded into the site, and last but >> not least, figuring out what???s not making an expandable button expand the >> way it needs to be, or if it is, why it???s not reading out why it???s >> expanded. >> So with all that being said, I think I just need a better understanding of >> what lessons I can skip over for now in order to find what I need to work >> with in order to learn to make that happen. >> On May 25, 2024, at 2:45???PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jessica: >>> >>> This will be a somewhat longer response to your question and I hope it's >>> helpful. Apologies in advance if it's not as comprehensive as I would >>> like to make it, i.e. with relevant links for good additional info, >>> etc., etc. >>> >>> My first comment is an observation about getting help from sighted >>> colleagues. Frankly, they often don't know how to talk to us blind >>> folks. That's true in digital environs just as it is in physical >>> environs. >>> >>> Pointing this out takes me to my first response to you about certain >>> HTML elements, specifically the div element. It's just a container. You >>> can deploy it to contain anything you want, actually. The sighted world >>> loves it for the look and feel opportunities it provides. >>> >>> Other HTML elements are clearly structural, e.g. the list elements you >>> were pointed to in this thread. Yes, we blind folks tend to love the >>> more structural elements simply because we benefit from clearly >>> organized and well marked up content. I suppose most of us wish we saw >>> that more often, but I digress. >>> >>> The take-away so far is the notion of containers. The div element isn't >>> the only one, but it's widely used, so understanding that it's just a >>> bucket is important, imo. >>> >>> Next I want to share an architectural overview with you. In my >>> understanding there are three important code streams in most web content >>> as follows: >>> >>> 1.)HTML >>> >>> This is the structural content organizing code defined by the WHAT >>> Working Group (and
Re: VMware's Fusion now free for personal use!
Hello, Assuming you have created an account, I believe this link will take you to the Fusion Pro for Personal use. https://support.broadcom.com/group/ecx/productfiles?subFamily=VMware%20Fusion=VMware%20Fusion%2013%20Pro%20for%20Personal%20Use=13.5.2==520445=EN Please note, the first time I downloaded this, I had to use a button that said additional screening required and then provide my address and agree I wouldn’t use the software for such tasks as weapons creation or export it to restricted countries. I was returned to the form and the button was then a download button. Kelly > On May 25, 2024, at 2:43 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > wrote: > > Marlene: > > I posted because we've had extensive discussions in recent months about > VMware Fusion (as well as its competitors from Parallels and UTM) on > this list. I believe there are people on list for whom this will be > welcome news. > > I don't mean to offend, but if you don't know, you're most likely not > interested. > > A simple answer that probably doesn't explain enough is that it provides > a virtualized environment into which you can install a second operating > system, or even a different version of the host OS. It's a way to have > both Mac and Windows on just one machine. > > Think of it as a box inside the big box that is your MacOS environment. > The box in the box might then have Windows, or Linux, or an older > version of MacOS--because that's what you, the user need. > > Marlene Kramer writes: >> I am embarrassed to say I do not know what VMware fusion does. Can someone >> describe for me what it is used for? >> Thank you. Marlene >> >> >>> On May 25, 2024, at 1:04???PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>> wrote: >>> >>> ???Dear All: >>> >>> Broadcom has recently announced that personal use of VMware Fusion will >>> henceforth be free of charge. The instructions for getting a free copy >>> seem a bit contorted, but they were never all that easy from VMware easy >>> in my experience! >>> >>> The following link details how to get a copy for personal use and also >>> points to the announcement from Broadcom: >>> >>> https://www.mikeroysoft.com/post/download-fusion-ws/ >>> >>> I plan to get Fusion on my laptop in the next week or so, so I'll follow >>> up here with any observations based on my experience. >>> >>> Best, >>> Janina >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) >>> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/ >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ZlIoJTCOaXwxYcq2%40rednote.net. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7AC891A0-D8BA-436C-B0C3-63C5B59176E6%40gmail.com. > > -- > > Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) > Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Co-Chair, Accessible
Re: VMware's Fusion now free for personal use!
Marlene: I posted because we've had extensive discussions in recent months about VMware Fusion (as well as its competitors from Parallels and UTM) on this list. I believe there are people on list for whom this will be welcome news. I don't mean to offend, but if you don't know, you're most likely not interested. A simple answer that probably doesn't explain enough is that it provides a virtualized environment into which you can install a second operating system, or even a different version of the host OS. It's a way to have both Mac and Windows on just one machine. Think of it as a box inside the big box that is your MacOS environment. The box in the box might then have Windows, or Linux, or an older version of MacOS--because that's what you, the user need. Marlene Kramer writes: > I am embarrassed to say I do not know what VMware fusion does. Can someone > describe for me what it is used for? > Thank you. Marlene > > > > On May 25, 2024, at 1:04???PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > > wrote: > > > > ???Dear All: > > > > Broadcom has recently announced that personal use of VMware Fusion will > > henceforth be free of charge. The instructions for getting a free copy > > seem a bit contorted, but they were never all that easy from VMware easy > > in my experience! > > > > The following link details how to get a copy for personal use and also > > points to the announcement from Broadcom: > > > > https://www.mikeroysoft.com/post/download-fusion-ws/ > > > > I plan to get Fusion on my laptop in the next week or so, so I'll follow > > up here with any observations based on my experience. > > > > Best, > > Janina > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) > > Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/ > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > Visionaries list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "MacVisionaries" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ZlIoJTCOaXwxYcq2%40rednote.net. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7AC891A0-D8BA-436C-B0C3-63C5B59176E6%40gmail.com. -- Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa Linux Foundation Fellow https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/ -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because
Re: HTML question.
Got it! So, I gather you're more or less up to speed on markup errors that you need to know about to do your auditing job. Yes? Now you're learning HTML in an ostensibly more structured way, i.e. using online courses from W3Schools. Can you say why? Do you have a specific goal for that knowledge and skillset? I don't know about you, but I've always thrived better in in person classes where I can get guidance and support from a teacher willing to understand the strengths and challenges I bring into class. Very likely these are not exactly what my classmates bring to the party. Not all teachers are good at that, just as sighted colleagues aren't always good at understanding the nonvisual framwork from which you operate. However, the ones that do can be enormously helpful in guiding one into what to study hard and what you can safely ignore for now. A self-guided on line curriculum isn't going to give you that unless it happens to be an online course built for blind users, such as come from Hadley. To take it back to your first post, you do need to understand and deal with div and class; but, you should be clear which is HTML and which is CSS. Because, if you don't, you're just ticking off boxes based on a partial understanding. I've never found that kind of partial understanding all that useful, personally. Janina Jessica Moss writes: > Ok, so in a nutshell, I audit web sites I???ve been sent either through > squarespace that haven???t gone live yet, or am sent ones that already have > to recheck to make sure links are clickable via screenreader/keyboard, > links/elements have proper alt text, and accordion style buttons expand and > collapse when they???re supposed to, and that Voiceover reads out when they > do just that. If this isn???t happening, I audit my findings in a > spreadsheet in excel and send my findings back. So there???s been a goal in > place for me for years for me to learn HTML and I???ve been simply trying to > navigate my way through w3schools, but since the main things I???d be needing > to focus on appear to be 1 of 3 things, adding proper alt text to links that > just say dreaded things like ???click here,??? ???learn more??? etc., adding > alt text to a completely blank Iframe, that most sighted people don???t think > needs alt text, because to them it just looks like a window they can see > through to find what???s imbedded into the site, and last but not least, > figuring out what???s not making an expandable button expand the way it needs > to be, or if it is, why it???s not reading out why it???s expanded. > So with all that being said, I think I just need a better understanding of > what lessons I can skip over for now in order to find what I need to work > with in order to learn to make that happen. > > > On May 25, 2024, at 2:45???PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > > wrote: > > > > Hi Jessica: > > > > This will be a somewhat longer response to your question and I hope it's > > helpful. Apologies in advance if it's not as comprehensive as I would > > like to make it, i.e. with relevant links for good additional info, > > etc., etc. > > > > My first comment is an observation about getting help from sighted > > colleagues. Frankly, they often don't know how to talk to us blind > > folks. That's true in digital environs just as it is in physical > > environs. > > > > Pointing this out takes me to my first response to you about certain > > HTML elements, specifically the div element. It's just a container. You > > can deploy it to contain anything you want, actually. The sighted world > > loves it for the look and feel opportunities it provides. > > > > Other HTML elements are clearly structural, e.g. the list elements you > > were pointed to in this thread. Yes, we blind folks tend to love the > > more structural elements simply because we benefit from clearly > > organized and well marked up content. I suppose most of us wish we saw > > that more often, but I digress. > > > > The take-away so far is the notion of containers. The div element isn't > > the only one, but it's widely used, so understanding that it's just a > > bucket is important, imo. > > > > Next I want to share an architectural overview with you. In my > > understanding there are three important code streams in most web content > > as follows: > > > > 1.) HTML > > > > This is the structural content organizing code defined by the WHAT > > Working Group (and the World Wide Web Consortium). The "source of > > truth" for HTML is this publication from 10 years ago: > > > > https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/ > > > > > > More useful to you is the Mozilla Developer Network documentation of > > HTML 5 and how to use the various HTML 5 elements. Over the years I've > > found that power HTML developers refer to the Mozilla Developer Network > > documentation pages when discussing pros and cons of particular HTML > > codeing approaches. The MDN is here: > > > >
Re: VMware's Fusion now free for personal use!
It's the MacOS equivalent to the VMware Workstation or VMware Player products on Windows. All of these are for running virtual machines on another computer. I used Fusion years ago but switched to VMware Workstation on Windows because I had less keyboard problems that way. When using Fusion, I found the best way to run Windows included using a USB keyboard directly on the guest Windows instance. On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 01:57:51PM -0500, Marlene Kramer wrote: I am embarrassed to say I do not know what VMware fusion does. Can someone describe for me what it is used for? Thank you. Marlene > On May 25, 2024, at 1:04 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > wrote: > > Dear All: > > Broadcom has recently announced that personal use of VMware Fusion will > henceforth be free of charge. The instructions for getting a free copy > seem a bit contorted, but they were never all that easy from VMware easy > in my experience! > > The following link details how to get a copy for personal use and also > points to the announcement from Broadcom: > > https://www.mikeroysoft.com/post/download-fusion-ws/ > > I plan to get Fusion on my laptop in the next week or so, so I'll follow > up here with any observations based on my experience. > > Best, > Janina > > > > -- > > Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) > Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka -- Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." --Benjamin Franklin -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20240525190613.uplbola3v46jt2eq%40dlee.org.
Re: HTML question.
Ok, so in a nutshell, I audit web sites I’ve been sent either through squarespace that haven’t gone live yet, or am sent ones that already have to recheck to make sure links are clickable via screenreader/keyboard, links/elements have proper alt text, and accordion style buttons expand and collapse when they’re supposed to, and that Voiceover reads out when they do just that. If this isn’t happening, I audit my findings in a spreadsheet in excel and send my findings back. So there’s been a goal in place for me for years for me to learn HTML and I’ve been simply trying to navigate my way through w3schools, but since the main things I’d be needing to focus on appear to be 1 of 3 things, adding proper alt text to links that just say dreaded things like “click here,” “learn more” etc., adding alt text to a completely blank Iframe, that most sighted people don’t think needs alt text, because to them it just looks like a window they can see through to find what’s imbedded into the site, and last but not least, figuring out what’s not making an expandable button expand the way it needs to be, or if it is, why it’s not reading out why it’s expanded. So with all that being said, I think I just need a better understanding of what lessons I can skip over for now in order to find what I need to work with in order to learn to make that happen. > On May 25, 2024, at 2:45 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > wrote: > > Hi Jessica: > > This will be a somewhat longer response to your question and I hope it's > helpful. Apologies in advance if it's not as comprehensive as I would > like to make it, i.e. with relevant links for good additional info, > etc., etc. > > My first comment is an observation about getting help from sighted > colleagues. Frankly, they often don't know how to talk to us blind > folks. That's true in digital environs just as it is in physical > environs. > > Pointing this out takes me to my first response to you about certain > HTML elements, specifically the div element. It's just a container. You > can deploy it to contain anything you want, actually. The sighted world > loves it for the look and feel opportunities it provides. > > Other HTML elements are clearly structural, e.g. the list elements you > were pointed to in this thread. Yes, we blind folks tend to love the > more structural elements simply because we benefit from clearly > organized and well marked up content. I suppose most of us wish we saw > that more often, but I digress. > > The take-away so far is the notion of containers. The div element isn't > the only one, but it's widely used, so understanding that it's just a > bucket is important, imo. > > Next I want to share an architectural overview with you. In my > understanding there are three important code streams in most web content > as follows: > > 1.) HTML > > This is the structural content organizing code defined by the WHAT > Working Group (and the World Wide Web Consortium). The "source of > truth" for HTML is this publication from 10 years ago: > > https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/ > > > More useful to you is the Mozilla Developer Network documentation of > HTML 5 and how to use the various HTML 5 elements. Over the years I've > found that power HTML developers refer to the Mozilla Developer Network > documentation pages when discussing pros and cons of particular HTML > codeing approaches. The MDN is here: > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ > > > There's lots of great help there including "Getting Started" guidance. > There's also a Wikipedia page for MDN you might want to visit to > understand the HTML world we now live in a bit better by way of > acquiring a contextual understanding of the coding work you've set out > to learn. > > Note that MDN also provides guidance on the following architectural > coding streams, so it really is a great one-stop source of info for you! > > 2.) CSS > > In the classical understanding of web content organization, and still > the very much preferred approach for well developed web content, > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) is the code layer responsible for the look > and feel of web content. CSS remains actively in development. As a blind > coder you will at least want to understand the basics of CSS, but it's > nuances are likely something you'll leave to sighted colleagues. > > The "source of truth" for CSS is a large corpus of specifications from > the W3C's CSS Working Group whose home page is here: > > https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/specs.en.html > > > And, a more user-friendly introduction to the CSS world is provided here: > > https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Overview.en.html > > On a personal note let me briefly digress to comment on how I recently > used CSS on one of my consulting contracts. I was developing a document > with my contractor that included quotations from documents published > online. However, my colleagues weren't always sufficiently careful >
Re: VMware's Fusion now free for personal use!
I am embarrassed to say I do not know what VMware fusion does. Can someone describe for me what it is used for? Thank you. Marlene > On May 25, 2024, at 1:04 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > wrote: > > Dear All: > > Broadcom has recently announced that personal use of VMware Fusion will > henceforth be free of charge. The instructions for getting a free copy > seem a bit contorted, but they were never all that easy from VMware easy > in my experience! > > The following link details how to get a copy for personal use and also > points to the announcement from Broadcom: > > https://www.mikeroysoft.com/post/download-fusion-ws/ > > I plan to get Fusion on my laptop in the next week or so, so I'll follow > up here with any observations based on my experience. > > Best, > Janina > > > > -- > > Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) > Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > Linux Foundation Fellow > https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/ > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ZlIoJTCOaXwxYcq2%40rednote.net. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7AC891A0-D8BA-436C-B0C3-63C5B59176E6%40gmail.com.
Re: HTML question.
Hi Jessica: This will be a somewhat longer response to your question and I hope it's helpful. Apologies in advance if it's not as comprehensive as I would like to make it, i.e. with relevant links for good additional info, etc., etc. My first comment is an observation about getting help from sighted colleagues. Frankly, they often don't know how to talk to us blind folks. That's true in digital environs just as it is in physical environs. Pointing this out takes me to my first response to you about certain HTML elements, specifically the div element. It's just a container. You can deploy it to contain anything you want, actually. The sighted world loves it for the look and feel opportunities it provides. Other HTML elements are clearly structural, e.g. the list elements you were pointed to in this thread. Yes, we blind folks tend to love the more structural elements simply because we benefit from clearly organized and well marked up content. I suppose most of us wish we saw that more often, but I digress. The take-away so far is the notion of containers. The div element isn't the only one, but it's widely used, so understanding that it's just a bucket is important, imo. Next I want to share an architectural overview with you. In my understanding there are three important code streams in most web content as follows: 1.) HTML This is the structural content organizing code defined by the WHAT Working Group (and the World Wide Web Consortium). The "source of truth" for HTML is this publication from 10 years ago: https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/ More useful to you is the Mozilla Developer Network documentation of HTML 5 and how to use the various HTML 5 elements. Over the years I've found that power HTML developers refer to the Mozilla Developer Network documentation pages when discussing pros and cons of particular HTML codeing approaches. The MDN is here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ There's lots of great help there including "Getting Started" guidance. There's also a Wikipedia page for MDN you might want to visit to understand the HTML world we now live in a bit better by way of acquiring a contextual understanding of the coding work you've set out to learn. Note that MDN also provides guidance on the following architectural coding streams, so it really is a great one-stop source of info for you! 2.) CSS In the classical understanding of web content organization, and still the very much preferred approach for well developed web content, Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) is the code layer responsible for the look and feel of web content. CSS remains actively in development. As a blind coder you will at least want to understand the basics of CSS, but it's nuances are likely something you'll leave to sighted colleagues. The "source of truth" for CSS is a large corpus of specifications from the W3C's CSS Working Group whose home page is here: https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/specs.en.html And, a more user-friendly introduction to the CSS world is provided here: https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Overview.en.html On a personal note let me briefly digress to comment on how I recently used CSS on one of my consulting contracts. I was developing a document with my contractor that included quotations from documents published online. However, my colleagues weren't always sufficiently careful making edits to our jointly developed document. So, I colorized all content contained in the HTML tag dark red with the comment that we could quote more, or we could quote less in our document; but, we could not change what the published document we were quoting from actually said! 3.) Javascript While there are perfectly good HTML elements for interactivity in web content, the interactive layer of web content is usually accomplished by javascript, often denoted simply as "js." There isn't a source of truth I know of for you regarding javascript. However, there's plenty good guidance about using js in more accessible friendly ways on the web. Here's such an article from the MDN that sums all this up: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Accessibility/CSS_and_JavaScript Lastly, let me simply comment that you don't need to change your operating system to learn HTML, CSS and even javascript. While I would tend to agree that you're likely to end up using Linux if you become a power web content developer, that day need not be today. You've sufficiently complexity in your world just now to grapple with. Let me add only that the point to all that is the power of the command line as opposed to the point and click graphical environment. Windows and MacOS provide their own p[owerful command line environments, especially most recent versions of Microsoft's Power Shell. Also, you can comfortably run Linux on a Windows computer using the Microsoft provided Web Subsystem for Linux (WSL). On a Mac you'll likely want to establish a virtual machine using VMware Fusion, though many people
Re: HTML question.
You’re right on the money with those, and I can see where navigating this with a touch screen only would be a huge pain in the butt. > On May 25, 2024, at 12:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: > > So you have been using a few element: > .. ul unordered list > 2 ol ordered list > 3. li list item > > You might have used html, title, head, and body elements. > I’d love to explain more, but I’m getting very frustrated. Trying to use the > touch keypad on my iPhone and I don’t have a regular computer with me until > after the holiday is over. > > > Sent from my iPhon > >> On May 24, 2024, at 4:35 PM, Jessica Moss wrote: >> >> That would be wonderful. Unfortunately what you’re describing at this >> point is making no sense to me, and as of now, I’ve only gotten so far as >> being able to create ordered/unordered lists. >> >>> On May 24, 2024, at 4:26 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: >>> >>> Jessica >>> Do you understand what an html element is? Div are only one type of element >>> and not a very useful one at that. >>> A Div is a generic block element. >>> >>> Class is one attribute of all elements for css and JavaScript the words of >>> the class attributes are often used as selectors for example in bootstrap >>> system the class sr_only is used for text that is invisible to sighted >>> users but is read by screen readers. Elements in general, have some sort of >>> meeting, but the class attribute only has meeting in a specific system. We >>> can discuss more after the holiday if you would like. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On May 24, 2024, at 12:47 PM, Jessica Moss wrote: Sure, that actually would be greatly appreciated. > On May 24, 2024, at 11:48 AM, Karen Lewellen > wrote: > > I understand..actually I do not use Linux directly either. No screen > reader that works with my needs. > Still, my hope was thinking of it like a file might help. > Would you mind if I asked a few people? > HTML is such an important foundation for inclusive web creation, and > clearly you are dedicated to become the best professional you can. > > > >> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote: >> >> While I completely get designing a site in html, I unfortunately don’t >> know anything about using Linux. We weren’t taught that during the time >> I was in school, and I literally went straight from using an Apple 2 >> machine to learning Windows. Then the main experience I got learning >> the Mac, actually came from this list, along with what used to be >> Blindcooltech’s podcasts. >> >>> On May 24, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Karen Lewellen >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jessica, >>> speaking personally? >>> This may be a question of tool, and how you consider the process. >>> Again speaking personally, I am not sure, at least for me, that the >>> folder image is the best so to speak. >>> My own personal website, No I am not blowing my own horn smiles, >>> www.karenlewellen.com >>> Was done in html. >>> I insisted on this so I could, as I often need to, update things on my >>> own. >>> Pull up a page in a editor and so forth..but that is me. >>> It may be helpful, if you are interested, to connect with Linux users >>> who also live with sight loss. >>> Some of them are more used to this kind of editing with their ears, >>> and are more likely to have a solid tool to suggest. >>> Does that resonate? >>> Karen >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote: >>> I’m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been having one of my coworkers help when he’s had some spare time. However, with him having completely usable vision, and trying to explain to me how certain portions of this work, divs and classes being a big thing, that’s where this becomes interesting, and makes me wonder how often will I use these, and should I just leave styling type elements such as these to someone who has more knowledge and can actually see where they need to go. He’s told me that it’s like putting items into a folder when dealing with html divs/classes, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten, considering the fact that while I understand the concept of having a physical folder, where you’d have deviders separating your homework assignments from your tests and quizzes for example, how would I style an existing template I’ve already started building in that same manner, without being able to see it, and know that I’ve done it correctly? -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
Re: HTML question.
So you have been using a few element: .. ul unordered list 2 ol ordered list 3. li list item You might have used html, title, head, and body elements. I’d love to explain more, but I’m getting very frustrated. Trying to use the touch keypad on my iPhone and I don’t have a regular computer with me until after the holiday is over. Sent from my iPhon > On May 24, 2024, at 4:35 PM, Jessica Moss wrote: > That would be wonderful. Unfortunately what you’re describing at this point > is making no sense to me, and as of now, I’ve only gotten so far as being > able to create ordered/unordered lists. > >> On May 24, 2024, at 4:26 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: >> >> Jessica >> Do you understand what an html element is? Div are only one type of element >> and not a very useful one at that. >> A Div is a generic block element. >> >> Class is one attribute of all elements for css and JavaScript the words of >> the class attributes are often used as selectors for example in bootstrap >> system the class sr_only is used for text that is invisible to sighted users >> but is read by screen readers. Elements in general, have some sort of >> meeting, but the class attribute only has meeting in a specific system. We >> can discuss more after the holiday if you would like. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 24, 2024, at 12:47 PM, Jessica Moss >>> wrote: >>> Sure, that actually would be greatly appreciated. On May 24, 2024, at 11:48 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote: I understand..actually I do not use Linux directly either. No screen reader that works with my needs. Still, my hope was thinking of it like a file might help. Would you mind if I asked a few people? HTML is such an important foundation for inclusive web creation, and clearly you are dedicated to become the best professional you can. > On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote: > While I completely get designing a site in html, I unfortunately don’t > know anything about using Linux. We weren’t taught that during the time > I was in school, and I literally went straight from using an Apple 2 > machine to learning Windows. Then the main experience I got learning the > Mac, actually came from this list, along with what used to be > Blindcooltech’s podcasts. >> On May 24, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Karen Lewellen >> wrote: >> Hi Jessica, >> speaking personally? >> This may be a question of tool, and how you consider the process. >> Again speaking personally, I am not sure, at least for me, that the >> folder image is the best so to speak. >> My own personal website, No I am not blowing my own horn smiles, >> www.karenlewellen.com >> Was done in html. >> I insisted on this so I could, as I often need to, update things on my >> own. >> Pull up a page in a editor and so forth..but that is me. >> It may be helpful, if you are interested, to connect with Linux users >> who also live with sight loss. >> Some of them are more used to this kind of editing with their ears, and >> are more likely to have a solid tool to suggest. >> Does that resonate? >> Karen >> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote: >>> I’m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been >>> having one of my coworkers help when he’s had some spare time. >>> However, with him having completely usable vision, and trying to >>> explain to me how certain portions of this work, divs and classes being >>> a big thing, that’s where this becomes interesting, and makes me wonder >>> how often will I use these, and should I just leave styling type >>> elements such as these to someone who has more knowledge and can >>> actually see where they need to go. >>> He’s told me that it’s like putting items into a folder when dealing >>> with html divs/classes, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten, considering >>> the fact that while I understand the concept of having a physical >>> folder, where you’d have deviders separating your homework assignments >>> from your tests and quizzes for example, how would I style an existing >>> template I’ve already started building in that same manner, without >>> being able to see it, and know that I’ve done it correctly? >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>> itself. >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara >>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
