Re: OK. Time for some understanding.

[Karen Lewellen]

Mr. Cohn,
Did you ask me on list for permission to write me privately before posting 
your  on list misstatements about my computing?

no.
I have no idea if your message was polite or not, I did not read  it since 
it came without respecting  me or my inbox.
Your choosing to send communications without permission, after your on 
list 
behavior meant that the message was mine to do with as I wished..share it 
where  it belonged.
Further I directed here, as I tend to direct in general, individuals to 
the w3c.  their web access initiative  drafts wacg 2.0 etc.  Their take on 
captcha is far more important for those seeking to navigate them than 
anything I  personally choose.  I suggest you consult their varied 
resources if you  wish to understand why I am apposed to them.
 As you still feel  slighted after violating the integrity of my inbox 
with a private 
unsolicited e-mail  after already making public comments, I will not 
expect you, nor ask you to apologize for that.  Had you not wanted your e-mail 
whatever it said shared, then your conduct should have been most different 
indeed in my opinion.
there is nothing further of benefit for this list regarding your efforts, 
and I have zero interest in engaging with you privately based on your 
illustrated lack of respect for me publicly.

I suggest you move on,



On Sun, 13 May 2018, Jonathan Cohn wrote:


Karen,

Since we are neither talking Macintosh or low vision access at this point,
the conversation is pretty much off topic. I was trying to understand your
point of view and attempting to ask you to help me appreciate why you have
on multiple times on multiple mailing lists gotten very defensive about the
web practice of using Captcha.


Your forwarding of my fairly polite personal message to the list was I
believe inappropriate, but I will not ask for an apology.

I do apologize for specifically calling you out as somebody who is not a
person who has taken the Apple kool-aid. (Smile ) I do sincerely want to
indicate no harm was intended toward you so I had trouble determining how
to write this on a public forum that is searchable by billions of people.


On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 11:04 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


  Mr. Cohn,
The desire for understanding tends to be expressed prior to assumptions.
I have no desire nor inclination to satisfy your interest.
I dare say, since the list is where you started, this note was intended
for
there.  I certainly did not express a wish to hear from  you privately.



On Sat, 12 May 2018, Jonathan Cohn wrote:


  Hello Ms. Lewellen,

I use the Surname here in mirror to your remarks to me on the

MacVisionaries mailing list.  My memory of your web browser of choice
isLynx. I am not aware if this is your only browser and if the reason you
use it is directly related to any disability. I do have the personal view
that properly designed ARIA widgets that use Javascript to modify the DOM
have made my access to complex web sites significantly easier.  I used Lynx
briefly, but found myself leaning more toward using commercial screen
readers and standard web browsers as my vision decreased and support for
IBM's wonderful self voicing web browser disappeared.


Perhaps I mistaken about your web browsers of choice or perhaps I have

not understood why somebody would use Lynx for day to day browsing. A
Significant number of sites I visit and for that matter the systems I check
accessibility on professionally do not progressively degrade to a non
JavaScript environment and while 10 years ago I would often disable
JavaScript and Java plugins because of security concerns, today current
sandboxing technologies boast my confidence in the ability of browsers to
be more secure.


If you would like to provide feedback to the above thoughts I will

consider it carefully and use it to help my future design decisions.


Thanks for keeping the fires burning, I know you have done a lot for the

accessibility community.


Warmly,



Jonathan Cohn







--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, 

Re: OK. Time for some understanding.

[Jonathan Cohn]

Karen,

Since we are neither talking Macintosh or low vision access at this point,
the conversation is pretty much off topic. I was trying to understand your
point of view and attempting to ask you to help me appreciate why you have
on multiple times on multiple mailing lists gotten very defensive about the
web practice of using Captcha.


 Your forwarding of my fairly polite personal message to the list was I
believe inappropriate, but I will not ask for an apology.

I do apologize for specifically calling you out as somebody who is not a
person who has taken the Apple kool-aid. (Smile ) I do sincerely want to
indicate no harm was intended toward you so I had trouble determining how
to write this on a public forum that is searchable by billions of people.


On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 11:04 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:

>   Mr. Cohn,
> The desire for understanding tends to be expressed prior to assumptions.
> I have no desire nor inclination to satisfy your interest.
> I dare say, since the list is where you started, this note was intended
> for
> there.  I certainly did not express a wish to hear from  you privately.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 12 May 2018, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
>
> >   Hello Ms. Lewellen,
> >
> > I use the Surname here in mirror to your remarks to me on the
> MacVisionaries mailing list.  My memory of your web browser of choice
> isLynx. I am not aware if this is your only browser and if the reason you
> use it is directly related to any disability. I do have the personal view
> that properly designed ARIA widgets that use Javascript to modify the DOM
> have made my access to complex web sites significantly easier.  I used Lynx
> briefly, but found myself leaning more toward using commercial screen
> readers and standard web browsers as my vision decreased and support for
> IBM's wonderful self voicing web browser disappeared.
> >
> > Perhaps I mistaken about your web browsers of choice or perhaps I have
> not understood why somebody would use Lynx for day to day browsing. A
> Significant number of sites I visit and for that matter the systems I check
> accessibility on professionally do not progressively degrade to a non
> JavaScript environment and while 10 years ago I would often disable
> JavaScript and Java plugins because of security concerns, today current
> sandboxing technologies boast my confidence in the ability of browsers to
> be more secure.
> >
> > If you would like to provide feedback to the above thoughts I will
> consider it carefully and use it to help my future design decisions.
> >
> > Thanks for keeping the fires burning, I know you have done a lot for the
> accessibility community.
> >
> > Warmly,
> >
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Cohn
> >
> >
> >
>

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: OK. Time for some understanding.

[Karen Lewellen]

 Mr. Cohn,
The desire for understanding tends to be expressed prior to assumptions. 
I have no desire nor inclination to satisfy your interest.
I dare say, since the list is where you started, this note was intended for 
there.  I certainly did not express a wish to hear from  you privately.




On Sat, 12 May 2018, Jonathan Cohn wrote:


Hello Ms. Lewellen,

I use the Surname here in mirror to your remarks to me on the MacVisionaries 
mailing list.  My memory of your web browser of choice isLynx. I am not aware 
if this is your only browser and if the reason you use it is directly related 
to any disability. I do have the personal view that properly designed ARIA 
widgets that use Javascript to modify the DOM have made my access to complex 
web sites significantly easier.  I used Lynx briefly, but found myself leaning 
more toward using commercial screen readers and standard web browsers as my 
vision decreased and support for IBM's wonderful self voicing web browser 
disappeared.

Perhaps I mistaken about your web browsers of choice or perhaps I have not 
understood why somebody would use Lynx for day to day browsing. A Significant 
number of sites I visit and for that matter the systems I check accessibility 
on professionally do not progressively degrade to a non JavaScript environment 
and while 10 years ago I would often disable JavaScript and Java plugins 
because of security concerns, today current sandboxing technologies boast my 
confidence in the ability of browsers to be more secure.

If you would like to provide feedback to the above thoughts I will consider it 
carefully and use it to help my future design decisions.

Thanks for keeping the fires burning, I know you have done a lot for the 
accessibility community.

Warmly,



Jonathan Cohn