Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Hi, I'm not sure i understood everything in your mail, but i'm thinking of 2 apps that could use this sort of help, one of which you are familiar with and the other i've mentioned before here on the list. The familiar one i thought of was Algoriddims DJay for the Mac. What's needed there is a way to quickly get at and manipulate the effects, such as echo, reverb etc. As it is now you can turn those effects on, but you can't do anything about the parameters of the effects. Also the microphone part of the app should need some help on the way i would think. The other app i was talking about is Reaper from http://www.reaper.fm, which has basic accessibility built-in in that dialogs, menus and so on are working but time, tools from the toolbars and track numbers and so on aren't visible. /Krister 8 mar 2011 kl. 10.53 skrev Yuma Decaux: > Hi everyone,, > > I've looked into the accessibility tools available in xcode, and there's an > intersting one which is the accessibility verifier which tests accessibility > defaults with the standard apple api and breaks down every element of a given > application, checks whether ax atrributes have been placed and what errors or > warnings come out of each. > > For instance, i have tried opening an inaccessible synth called the > swarmatron and it warns of a lack of a focus on the main window, looking down > into it, i see all standard close minimize etc windows have ax attributes and > the main window has none. Maybe digging deeper into the structures of more > accessible applications, one can actually provide the classes used by the > standard api and send a schematic view with relevant classes to be inputted > to the developers, screenshots included? > > I have recently been working with a drum synth developer in rendering his > application totally accessible and we are going through the initial steps of > testing custom accessibility for image maps for example, and he acknowledged > the fact that his own hierarchy of elements is much clearer with > accessibility plugged in as it allows for a very concise view of his > pplication, cross links and class hierarchies. > > Maybe this is something to look into further and perhaps crowd source some > form of reference material beyond what apple offers to give a boost to some > of the more reticent developers? > > I am talking mainly about sound application devvers whose interfaces are > commonly image maps with custom elements, however them being coded in > standard apple fashion. > > The instance of the drum synth devver being able to quicly make custom > elements, and i echo his words "adding accessibility is not a difficult task > nor is it a slow process" means that provided a concise explanation or > mini-manual of the concepts of accessibility, with a section on the actual > advantages of having this structure added to one application, meaning elegant > universal code, this might break some grounds in multiplying or standardizing > accessibility on the mac ecosystem. > > Going back to the workbench > > > Best regards, > > Yuma > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
This is a very positive step towards accessibility. What I like about this is that devs can receive more useful feedback than, "Dear developer, your program isn't accessible with Voiceover. Fix it." If this can be brought to light at something like the WWDC, I think huge strides can be made for making this a part of the consciousness of a developer. What I'd love to see is a breakdown of Scratch Live by Serato. Thanks for posting this. Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Hello Yuma, Just to clarify -- Are you saying that if we have the xcode tools on our Mac we can plug any App from the App Store into the Accessibility Verifier and get this sort of report? I would have thought this would only work with the raw code and not with compiled Apps as purchased from the App Store. If this is indeed possible, this will be a great addition to the information we can submit to Developers when discussing the accessibility of their Apps. Everybody with a Mac has access to the IOS developer tools by registering as an Apple Developer and purchasing the IOS Development kit, which is currently US $99.00. Thank you, Bryan On Mar 8, 2011, at 4:53 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote: > I've looked into the accessibility tools available in xcode, and there's an > intersting one which is the accessibility verifier which tests accessibility > defaults with the standard apple api and breaks down every element of a given > application, checks whether ax atrributes have been placed and what errors or > warnings come out of each. > > For instance, i have tried opening an inaccessible synth called the > swarmatron and it warns of a lack of a focus on the main window, looking down > into it, i see all standard close minimize etc windows have ax attributes and > the main window has none. Maybe digging deeper into the structures of more > accessible applications, one can actually provide the classes used by the > standard api and send a schematic view with relevant classes to be inputted > to the developers, screenshots included? > > I have recently been working with a drum synth developer in rendering his > application totally accessible and we are going through the initial steps of > testing custom accessibility for image maps for example, and he acknowledged > the fact that his own hierarchy of elements is much clearer with > accessibility plugged in as it allows for a very concise view of his > pplication, cross links and class hierarchies. > > Maybe this is something to look into further and perhaps crowd source some > form of reference material beyond what apple offers to give a boost to some > of the more reticent developers? > > I am talking mainly about sound application devvers whose interfaces are > commonly image maps with custom elements, however them being coded in > standard apple fashion. > > The instance of the drum synth devver being able to quicly make custom > elements, and i echo his words "adding accessibility is not a difficult task > nor is it a slow process" means that provided a concise explanation or > mini-manual of the concepts of accessibility, with a section on the actual > advantages of having this structure added to one application, meaning elegant > universal code, this might break some grounds in multiplying or standardizing > accessibility on the mac ecosystem. > > Going back to the workbench > > > Best regards, > > Yuma > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Hi all! Ok This sounds like a good thing to me! If those of you who can use this to help dev's and they respond this only can be good! And like someone already said it's better than fix it! :] Colin I'm far too bad for Heaven! The Devil is afraid I'll take his place! On 8 Mar 2011, at 14:10, Bryan Jones wrote: > Hello Yuma, > > Just to clarify -- Are you saying that if we have the xcode tools on our Mac > we can plug any App from the App Store into the Accessibility Verifier and > get this sort of report? I would have thought this would only work with the > raw code and not with compiled Apps as purchased from the App Store. If this > is indeed possible, this will be a great addition to the information we can > submit to Developers when discussing the accessibility of their Apps. > Everybody with a Mac has access to the IOS developer tools by registering as > an Apple Developer and purchasing the IOS Development kit, which is currently > US $99.00. > > Thank you, > Bryan > > On Mar 8, 2011, at 4:53 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote: >> I've looked into the accessibility tools available in xcode, and there's an >> interesting one which is the accessibility verifier which tests >> accessibility defaults with the standard apple api and breaks down every >> element of a given application, checks whether ax attributes have been >> placed and what errors or warnings come out of each. >> >> For instance, i have tried opening an inaccessible synth called the >> swarmatron and it warns of a lack of a focus on the main window, looking >> down into it, i see all standard close minimise etc windows have ax >> attributes and the main window has none. Maybe digging deeper into the >> structures of more accessible applications, one can actually provide the >> classes used by the standard api and send a schematic view with relevant >> classes to be inputted to the developers, screenshots included? >> >> I have recently been working with a drum synth developer in rendering his >> application totally accessible and we are going through the initial steps of >> testing custom accessibility for image maps for example, and he acknowledged >> the fact that his own hierarchy of elements is much clearer with >> accessibility plugged in as it allows for a very concise view of his >> application, cross links and class hierarchies. >> >> Maybe this is something to look into further and perhaps crowd source some >> form of reference material beyond what apple offers to give a boost to some >> of the more reticent developers? >> >> I am talking mainly about sound application devvers whose interfaces are >> commonly image maps with custom elements, however them being coded in >> standard apple fashion. >> >> The instance of the drum synth devver being able to quickly make custom >> elements, and i echo his words "adding accessibility is not a difficult task >> nor is it a slow process" means that provided a concise explanation or >> mini-manual of the concepts of accessibility, with a section on the actual >> advantages of having this structure added to one application, meaning >> elegant universal code, this might break some grounds in multiplying or >> standardising accessibility on the mac ecosystem. >> >> Going back to the workbench >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Yuma >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Hi christer, the wet/dry parameters for echo and reverb are best used with a fader but yes i agree, the image maps need to be rendered accessible. If you care to go on the algoriddim forum, and just like me contact anders via the forum on the accessibility it would help them and perhaps me some more :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Hey Kevin, I'd so much like scratch live to be accessible it makes me hungry. But ableton having become a behemoth of a company, its harder to get to their channels unless you got someone who directly works there. So anyone got a german friend who got a frined working ther? As for the WWDC thing, something to consider doing is send a team of flyer distributors with a clear message about accessibility to give to all the devvers there would be a start. I definetely won't be making it there this year nor in the years to come as i got so much to do, but any ADV memebers out there care to help out? I can get my team to make the flyer, 3D and all, to really grab their attention. Hit me off list if you're one of those lucky ones who will attend wwdc. Cheers -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Hi Bryan, Yes to certain extents this is what it does, it does also provide what accessibility class is missig which would Be useful when navigating with a sighted person who can say whether an object is a button or anything else in the interface (i'm talking about image maps here) And as for the apple developer membership, you can download the tools without shelling out the hundred bucks, just registering will be enough to get xcode and the rest. Cheers Yuma -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Yuma, Are the tools provided on the DVD (and updated via software date) the same or can you get additional tools. ALso just to clarify, if I have an app that has issues, can I use this inspector to look at the controls etc. and provide the developer feedback? There is a specific reason for the specific question. :) I'm working with a developer and want to try and provide more than just feedback and want to make sure I can provide as much information as possible including screen shots as appropriate. Any advice/input would be appreciated. Thanks, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Scott, The developer tools are all included in the DVD if my memory serves me right, they are part of the xcode bundle unless those accessibility tools have been recently added with the latest version. If the app uses a standard coco framework, the elements are broken down with information on whether a specific accessibility class has been plugged or not, i haven't looked too far into it but it shows all of your open applications so its good to close them all except the one you want to investigate. There is also the accessibility inspector but i'm not sure how to work it out yet. I believe it locks unto an element on a selected application and when you hit command f7 the relevant information displays in the empty text box of the dev tool. There are however no help files that come with the inspector On the other hand, here is an excerpt in the accesibility verifier's help document: Accessibility Verifier is a tool to help ensure your application will work well with the built-in accessibility features of Mac OS X. This tool provides runtime checking of an application's menus, windows, controls, and other UI elements, and reports information about accessibility data and attributes associated with those elements. Hope this helps Yuma -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: a helping hand for developers in assessing their accessibility
Yuma, Yes this does help and thanks for the reminder. I was doing some testing a while back for someone on a website and f7 does ring a bell. SO, time to go break stuff. :) THanks, On Mar 8, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Yuma Decaux wrote: > Scott, > > The developer tools are all included in the DVD if my memory serves me right, > they are part of the xcode bundle unless those accessibility tools have been > recently added with the latest version. > > If the app uses a standard coco framework, the elements are broken down with > information on whether a specific accessibility class has been plugged or > not, i haven't looked too far into it but it shows all of your open > applications so its good to close them all except the one you want to > investigate. > > There is also the accessibility inspector but i'm not sure how to work it out > yet. I believe it locks unto an element on a selected application and when > you hit command f7 the relevant information displays in the empty text box of > the dev tool. There are however no help files that come with the inspector > > On the other hand, here is an excerpt in the accesibility verifier's help > document: > > Accessibility Verifier is a tool to help ensure your application will work > well with the built-in accessibility features of Mac OS X. This tool provides > runtime checking of an application's menus, windows, controls, and other UI > elements, and reports information about accessibility data and attributes > associated with those elements. > > > Hope this helps > > Yuma > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
