Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
Hi, The command for send is command shift D. To help you remember it just remember the word deliver. like deliver your mail. Hope this helps. Jenny and Brooks my faithful Guide On Aug 19, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > Perhaps, but is a hard thing not to do. I will definitely keep this in mind, > though, and try harder to take the mac for what it is. I think I am just > looking for ways of doing the same things I did in windows that made > navigation easier, like dialog access keys. For instance, I am writing this > on the mac in the mail app. Is there a command to send, or do I have to > tab/arrow to the send buton? It is really more about efficiency, at least > regarding this point, than a windows comparison. > On 18 Aug 2011, at 21:31, Mik e Arrigo wrote: > >> Based on your questions, I do think you're comparing voiceover and the mac >> to windows too much, and this may cause you problems. While there are some >> similarities, the mac has its own way of doing things. For instance, on the >> web, you mainly move element by element, it doesn't navigate line by line >> the way windows screen readers do. You can still read an entire page by >> pressing control option a. The main place you find shortcut keys are in >> menus. They usually don't appear in dialog boxes. The more you use it, the >> easier it should become for you. >> On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Alex Hall wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo. >>> Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all >>> shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around >>> the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like >>> checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no >>> particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be >>> coming! >>> >>> 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might >>> press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found >>> that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer >>> sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so >>> I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the >>> option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that >>> letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any >>> letter to be the access key. >>> >>> 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so >>> on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by >>> using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following: >>> a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing >>> wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's >>> only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found" >>> instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page). >>> b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up >>> and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I >>> don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in >>> mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages >>> element by element only? If I go to a heading which is, say, an >>> article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is, >>> instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful >>> if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other >>> content after the heading but before the article. >>> >>> 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only >>> found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight >>> instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and >>> folder manager that people recommend? >>> >>> 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the >>> system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth, >>> and the like. How do I access it? >>> >>> 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it >>> each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a >>> lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb >>> keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor at the moment. >>> >>> 6. Can vo announce the time and date like most other screen readers? >>> This is not a big deal to me, but it would be nice sometimes. I have >>> enabled the keyboard commander, but the speech used is not my vo >>> speech, but rather the system speech, and there is quite a delay >>> between the keypress and the speaking. >>> >>> 7. Why is it that, when I go into the launcher and try to open my >>> downloads folder, nothing happens? It should have two files in it, so >>> I know it is not empty. I am pressing enter, space, vo-space, the up >>> and down arrows (quick nav is on), but nothing happens. >>> >>> 8. Nothing ever goes onto the desktop. I am not sure how to use it >>> or what good it
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
Hi, To send a message in Mail, press cmd-shift-d. Take a look under the menu items and you can note many of the keyboard shortcuts. Just like in Windows, they are indicated right after the menu item when navigating through the menu. Later… On 2011-08-19, at 6:16 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > Perhaps, but is a hard thing not to do. I will definitely keep this in mind, > though, and try harder to take the mac for what it is. I think I am just > looking for ways of doing the same things I did in windows that made > navigation easier, like dialog access keys. For instance, I am writing this > on the mac in the mail app. Is there a command to send, or do I have to > tab/arrow to the send buton? It is really more about efficiency, at least > regarding this point, than a windows comparison. > On 18 Aug 2011, at 21:31, Mik e Arrigo wrote: > >> Based on your questions, I do think you're comparing voiceover and the mac >> to windows too much, and this may cause you problems. While there are some >> similarities, the mac has its own way of doing things. For instance, on the >> web, you mainly move element by element, it doesn't navigate line by line >> the way windows screen readers do. You can still read an entire page by >> pressing control option a. The main place you find shortcut keys are in >> menus. They usually don't appear in dialog boxes. The more you use it, the >> easier it should become for you. >> On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Alex Hall wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo. >>> Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all >>> shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around >>> the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like >>> checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no >>> particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be >>> coming! >>> >>> 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might >>> press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found >>> that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer >>> sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so >>> I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the >>> option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that >>> letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any >>> letter to be the access key. >>> >>> 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so >>> on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by >>> using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following: >>> a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing >>> wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's >>> only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found" >>> instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page). >>> b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up >>> and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I >>> don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in >>> mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages >>> element by element only? If I go to a heading which is, say, an >>> article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is, >>> instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful >>> if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other >>> content after the heading but before the article. >>> >>> 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only >>> found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight >>> instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and >>> folder manager that people recommend? >>> >>> 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the >>> system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth, >>> and the like. How do I access it? >>> >>> 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it >>> each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a >>> lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb >>> keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor at the moment. >>> >>> 6. Can vo announce the time and date like most other screen readers? >>> This is not a big deal to me, but it would be nice sometimes. I have >>> enabled the keyboard commander, but the speech used is not my vo >>> speech, but rather the system speech, and there is quite a delay >>> between the keypress and the speaking. >>> >>> 7. Why is it that, when I go into the launcher and try to open my >>> downloads folder, nothing happens? It should have two files in it, so >>> I know it is not empty. I am pressing enter, space, vo-space, the up >>> and down arrows (quick nav is on), but nothing happens. >>> >>> 8. Nothing ever goes onto the
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
You really have to abandon your Windows mindset. I know it's difficult, and I had to really learn this point in the beginning as well to enable me to make significant progress with the Mac. I try to explain to people I train that you can't sit at the Mac expecting to do things how you did in Windows and to keep asking questions like, "I did this in JAWS or Window-Eyes. How can I do the same thing on the Mac?" You'll find concepts that are similar, but you have two very different aspects that you must keep firmly in mind. 1. Mac OS X is NOT aWindows of any flavor. You must learn the OS without comparing or contrasting it to Windows. 2. VoiceOver is not JAWS or Window-Eyes. You can't learn expecting them to work the same way. Trust me. An open mind and a clear mind will get you further and faster than thinking in the world of Windows. Take Care John Panarese jpanar...@gmail.com On Aug 19, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > Perhaps, but is a hard thing not to do. I will definitely keep this in mind, > though, and try harder to take the mac for what it is. I think I am just > looking for ways of doing the same things I did in windows that made > navigation easier, like dialog access keys. For instance, I am writing this > on the mac in the mail app. Is there a command to send, or do I have to > tab/arrow to the send buton? It is really more about efficiency, at least > regarding this point, than a windows comparison. > On 18 Aug 2011, at 21:31, Mik e Arrigo wrote: > >> Based on your questions, I do think you're comparing voiceover and the mac >> to windows too much, and this may cause you problems. While there are some >> similarities, the mac has its own way of doing things. For instance, on the >> web, you mainly move element by element, it doesn't navigate line by line >> the way windows screen readers do. You can still read an entire page by >> pressing control option a. The main place you find shortcut keys are in >> menus. They usually don't appear in dialog boxes. The more you use it, the >> easier it should become for you. >> On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Alex Hall wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo. >>> Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all >>> shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around >>> the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like >>> checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no >>> particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be >>> coming! >>> >>> 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might >>> press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found >>> that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer >>> sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so >>> I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the >>> option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that >>> letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any >>> letter to be the access key. >>> >>> 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so >>> on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by >>> using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following: >>> a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing >>> wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's >>> only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found" >>> instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page). >>> b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up >>> and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I >>> don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in >>> mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages >>> element by element only? If I go to a heading which is, say, an >>> article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is, >>> instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful >>> if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other >>> content after the heading but before the article. >>> >>> 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only >>> found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight >>> instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and >>> folder manager that people recommend? >>> >>> 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the >>> system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth, >>> and the like. How do I access it? >>> >>> 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it >>> each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a >>> lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb >>> keyboard, no mouse, and no mo
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
Perhaps, but is a hard thing not to do. I will definitely keep this in mind, though, and try harder to take the mac for what it is. I think I am just looking for ways of doing the same things I did in windows that made navigation easier, like dialog access keys. For instance, I am writing this on the mac in the mail app. Is there a command to send, or do I have to tab/arrow to the send buton? It is really more about efficiency, at least regarding this point, than a windows comparison. On 18 Aug 2011, at 21:31, Mik e Arrigo wrote: > Based on your questions, I do think you're comparing voiceover and the mac to > windows too much, and this may cause you problems. While there are some > similarities, the mac has its own way of doing things. For instance, on the > web, you mainly move element by element, it doesn't navigate line by line the > way windows screen readers do. You can still read an entire page by pressing > control option a. The main place you find shortcut keys are in menus. They > usually don't appear in dialog boxes. The more you use it, the easier it > should become for you. > On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo. >> Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all >> shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around >> the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like >> checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no >> particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be >> coming! >> >> 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might >> press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found >> that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer >> sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so >> I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the >> option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that >> letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any >> letter to be the access key. >> >> 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so >> on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by >> using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following: >> a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing >> wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's >> only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found" >> instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page). >> b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up >> and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I >> don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in >> mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages >> element by element only? If I go to a heading which is, say, an >> article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is, >> instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful >> if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other >> content after the heading but before the article. >> >> 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only >> found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight >> instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and >> folder manager that people recommend? >> >> 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the >> system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth, >> and the like. How do I access it? >> >> 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it >> each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a >> lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb >> keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor at the moment. >> >> 6. Can vo announce the time and date like most other screen readers? >> This is not a big deal to me, but it would be nice sometimes. I have >> enabled the keyboard commander, but the speech used is not my vo >> speech, but rather the system speech, and there is quite a delay >> between the keypress and the speaking. >> >> 7. Why is it that, when I go into the launcher and try to open my >> downloads folder, nothing happens? It should have two files in it, so >> I know it is not empty. I am pressing enter, space, vo-space, the up >> and down arrows (quick nav is on), but nothing happens. >> >> 8. Nothing ever goes onto the desktop. I am not sure how to use it >> or what good it is, since everything goes to the dock/launcher. I was >> listening to a podcast last night, and the host had somehow set things >> up so that his desktop had his home folder opened on it. How do I >> manage my desktop, and how is it different from the dock? >> >> 9. Safari: aside from the html questions, how do I do
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
Based on your questions, I do think you're comparing voiceover and the mac to windows too much, and this may cause you problems. While there are some similarities, the mac has its own way of doing things. For instance, on the web, you mainly move element by element, it doesn't navigate line by line the way windows screen readers do. You can still read an entire page by pressing control option a. The main place you find shortcut keys are in menus. They usually don't appear in dialog boxes. The more you use it, the easier it should become for you. On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > Hello all, > I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo. > Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all > shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around > the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like > checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no > particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be > coming! > > 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might > press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found > that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer > sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so > I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the > option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that > letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any > letter to be the access key. > > 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so > on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by > using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following: > a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing > wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's > only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found" > instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page). > b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up > and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I > don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in > mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages > element by element only? If I go to a heading which is, say, an > article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is, > instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful > if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other > content after the heading but before the article. > > 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only > found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight > instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and > folder manager that people recommend? > > 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the > system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth, > and the like. How do I access it? > > 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it > each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a > lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb > keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor at the moment. > > 6. Can vo announce the time and date like most other screen readers? > This is not a big deal to me, but it would be nice sometimes. I have > enabled the keyboard commander, but the speech used is not my vo > speech, but rather the system speech, and there is quite a delay > between the keypress and the speaking. > > 7. Why is it that, when I go into the launcher and try to open my > downloads folder, nothing happens? It should have two files in it, so > I know it is not empty. I am pressing enter, space, vo-space, the up > and down arrows (quick nav is on), but nothing happens. > > 8. Nothing ever goes onto the desktop. I am not sure how to use it > or what good it is, since everything goes to the dock/launcher. I was > listening to a podcast last night, and the host had somehow set things > up so that his desktop had his home folder opened on it. How do I > manage my desktop, and how is it different from the dock? > > 9. Safari: aside from the html questions, how do I do things like > view bookmarks, sort bookmarks into folders, view open tabs, switch > between tabs, and so on? Will vo work with Firefox? Might I be better > off using that over Safari? > > 10. How do I get to things I download so I can open them? I have so > far downloaded two programs, but I am not sure how to run either one > of them. I think I ran one, but I'm not sure, and now I can't get the > other to work at all. > > 11. Is there a way to read daisy, for free, using Alex? I know > Bookshare has a program, but I don't want the voices it comes with, I > just want to use Alex to read bookshare and other content. > >
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
Thanks for the help! I will give these a try, especially your suggestions for moving in a webpage and using that read mode. What is that, exactly? On 8/18/11, Red.Falcon wrote: > Hi Alex! > Unfortunately I cannot answer all of your questions! > And I'm still running SL myself! > But I will answer where I can! > You'll find my suggestions after the question [in question] hahahahaha :] > Colin > > On 18 Aug 2011, at 15:10, Alex Hall wrote: > >> Hello all, >> I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo. >> Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all >> shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around >> the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like >> checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no >> particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be >> coming! >> >> 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might >> press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found >> that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer >> sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so >> I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the >> option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that >> letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any >> letter to be the access key. >> >> 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so >> on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by >> using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following: >> a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing >> wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's >> only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found" >> instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page). >> b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up >> and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I >> don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in >> mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages >> element by element only? > > No you can just turn off quicknav [left and right arrows together] then you > can arrow through the page at will! > And the same command to put quicknav back on! > >> If I go to a heading which is, say, an >> article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is, >> instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful >> if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other >> content after the heading but before the article. >> > YOu could try the reader command [command+shift+r ] > >> 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only >> found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight >> instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and >> folder manager that people recommend? >> >> 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the >> system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth, >> and the like. How do I access it? >> > You access that menu with vo+m+m > >> 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it >> each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a >> lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb >> keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor at the moment. >> > > You can set vo to start in log in window in your accounts! >> 6. Can vo announce the time and date like most other screen readers? >> This is not a big deal to me, but it would be nice sometimes. I have >> enabled the keyboard commander, but the speech used is not my vo >> speech, but rather the system speech, and there is quite a delay >> between the keypress and the speaking. > > You might not have set vo to be run by apple scripts in the general part of > vo utility the check that and the time will work much better! >> 7. Why is it that, when I go into the launcher and try to open my >> downloads folder, nothing happens? It should have two files in it, so >> I know it is not empty. I am pressing enter, space, vo-space, the up >> and down arrows (quick nav is on), but nothing happens. >> >> 8. Nothing ever goes onto the desktop. I am not sure how to use it >> or what good it is, since everything goes to the dock/launcher. I was >> listening to a podcast last night, and the host had somehow set things >> up so that his desktop had his home folder opened on it. How do I >> manage my desktop, and how is it different from the dock? >> >> 9. Safari: aside from the html questions, how do I do things like >> view bookmarks, sort bookmarks into folders, view open tabs, switch >> between tabs, and so on? Will vo work with Firefox? Might I be better >> off using that over Safari? >> > Forget firefox no vo! > > >> 10. How do I get to things I download so I c
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
Thanks! My responses, with follow-up questions and clarifications, are below, in-line with your answers. On 8/18/11, Jessica and Goldina wrote: > hi Alex! > > welcome to the wonderful world of Mac! I'm sure you'll love it once you get > everything figured out. I'll try to answer as many of your questions as I > can and hopefully the other listers will chime in on the rest. > > 2. html content areas. I don't believe the single key navigation wraps. if > you're on the last form field on the page it will just leave you there and > say no more elements found. however, if you press shift+f, for example, > it'll take you to the form field above it. Yes it will, but I was hoping for it to jump to the first one on the page. I suppose this isn't too big a deal, though, as this was only every really useful on gMail pages and I can now imap into gmail with apple mail. Still, it would be nice. > > It is best to use the left and right arrow keys when browsing websites if > you're not looking for any particular element. Yu mentioned finding an > article and getting past all the social networking frame and stuff at the > beginning. when you find the heading that contains the article, use the > right arrow key to get past all the other stuff. on Mac, the left and right > arrow keys are equal to using the up and down arrows to navigate through a > website. you can also use VO find with VO f if you know the first few words > of the article. but left and right arrows navigate through the page similar > to how you do on windows. I am discovering this. Another lister mentioned toggling off quick nav and arrowing that way, which I will have to play with. Hopefully this turns out to be a case of a windows muscle memory getting in the way, and not a true annoyance. The lister also mentioned read mode, I think it was cmd-shift-r. I will have to look into this. > > 3. the finder can be a tricky thing at first. In Lion, and you would be > using Lion since you mentioned single key navigation, the finder defaults to > all files. This is a view where it shows you all your files. I haven't > wrapped my head around how to use it yet so I changed my finder back to how > it was in Snow Leopard. You can do this by: > A. go to the finder and open a new finder window by pressing cmd+n > B. go to finder preferences by pressing cmd+comma. > C. right arrow over until you hear: new finder windows show… > D. right arrow over again and you will probably hear all files pop up > button. > E. VO space on the pop up button to open it. > F. VO down arrow until you hear your name. this is your home folder. > G. VO space when you find your name and this will close the pop up button > and change the selection from all files to your home folder. > H. close finder preferences with cmd+w. > I. close the finder with cmd+w > J. open the finder again with cmd+n. it will probably default to showing as > icon view. To be safe, change the view to column view with cmd+3. VO will > say "as columns checked." > > It looks way more complicated written out than it actually is. trust me. > Your home folder is where your desktop, documents, downloads folder etc are > stored. When you have it set to column view, it's similar to how it was in > windows explorer, at least I found it was. If you want your documents for > example, all you have to do is interact with the file browser VO+shift+down > arrow and VO down arrow til you hear documents. use VO right arrow to open > documents and VO down arrow to look through its contents. VO left arrow > closes it and takes you back to your home folder. I found this the easiest > way to browse the finder. I did it, and it was rather easy. I always like to keep everything in my own folders and not let apps, like iTunes or wordprocessors, manage them for me. I assume this is where I create said folders? > > Apart from the file browser, there is a side bar in the finder. You can get > to it by VO left arrowing when you're not interacting with the file browser. Is there an easier way, like a keyboard shortcut? > The side bar is where you can see other computers on your network, other > drives you have hooked up to your computer etc. I saw a bunch of checkboxes in preferences. Do they control what is in this sidebar? > > Spotlight is a universal find feature. If you're not sure where exactly a > file is stored on your computer, you can search for it in spotlight. Finder > is where everything is stored and organized and spotlight is a quick way of > finding things if you're not sure where they are. Is there a keyboard command to bring up Spotlight? > > 4. the left hand menu bar or second layer menu bar is like the system tray > in windows, yes. you activate it by pressing VO m twice quickly and then VO > arrowing through its contents. Handy! Will apps ever put things there like they would on Windows? > > 5. VO should start when your system starts as long as you don't turn it off > before shutting down. If it doesn't I'd say mayb
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
Hi Alex! Unfortunately I cannot answer all of your questions! And I'm still running SL myself! But I will answer where I can! You'll find my suggestions after the question [in question] hahahahaha :] Colin On 18 Aug 2011, at 15:10, Alex Hall wrote: > Hello all, > I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo. > Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all > shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around > the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like > checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no > particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be > coming! > > 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might > press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found > that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer > sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so > I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the > option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that > letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any > letter to be the access key. > > 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so > on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by > using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following: > a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing > wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's > only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found" > instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page). > b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up > and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I > don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in > mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages > element by element only? No you can just turn off quicknav [left and right arrows together] then you can arrow through the page at will! And the same command to put quicknav back on! > If I go to a heading which is, say, an > article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is, > instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful > if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other > content after the heading but before the article. > YOu could try the reader command [command+shift+r ] > 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only > found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight > instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and > folder manager that people recommend? > > 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the > system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth, > and the like. How do I access it? > You access that menu with vo+m+m > 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it > each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a > lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb > keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor at the moment. > You can set vo to start in log in window in your accounts! > 6. Can vo announce the time and date like most other screen readers? > This is not a big deal to me, but it would be nice sometimes. I have > enabled the keyboard commander, but the speech used is not my vo > speech, but rather the system speech, and there is quite a delay > between the keypress and the speaking. You might not have set vo to be run by apple scripts in the general part of vo utility the check that and the time will work much better! > 7. Why is it that, when I go into the launcher and try to open my > downloads folder, nothing happens? It should have two files in it, so > I know it is not empty. I am pressing enter, space, vo-space, the up > and down arrows (quick nav is on), but nothing happens. > > 8. Nothing ever goes onto the desktop. I am not sure how to use it > or what good it is, since everything goes to the dock/launcher. I was > listening to a podcast last night, and the host had somehow set things > up so that his desktop had his home folder opened on it. How do I > manage my desktop, and how is it different from the dock? > > 9. Safari: aside from the html questions, how do I do things like > view bookmarks, sort bookmarks into folders, view open tabs, switch > between tabs, and so on? Will vo work with Firefox? Might I be better > off using that over Safari? > Forget firefox no vo! > 10. How do I get to things I download so I can open them? I have so > far downloaded two programs, but I am not sure how to run either one > of them. I think I ran one, but I'm not sure, and now I can't get the > other to work at all. > > 11. Is there a way to read daisy, for free, using Alex? I know > Bookshare has a pr
Re: first-time user: a bunch of basic questions
hi Alex! welcome to the wonderful world of Mac! I'm sure you'll love it once you get everything figured out. I'll try to answer as many of your questions as I can and hopefully the other listers will chime in on the rest. 2. html content areas. I don't believe the single key navigation wraps. if you're on the last form field on the page it will just leave you there and say no more elements found. however, if you press shift+f, for example, it'll take you to the form field above it. It is best to use the left and right arrow keys when browsing websites if you're not looking for any particular element. Yu mentioned finding an article and getting past all the social networking frame and stuff at the beginning. when you find the heading that contains the article, use the right arrow key to get past all the other stuff. on Mac, the left and right arrow keys are equal to using the up and down arrows to navigate through a website. you can also use VO find with VO f if you know the first few words of the article. but left and right arrows navigate through the page similar to how you do on windows. 3. the finder can be a tricky thing at first. In Lion, and you would be using Lion since you mentioned single key navigation, the finder defaults to all files. This is a view where it shows you all your files. I haven't wrapped my head around how to use it yet so I changed my finder back to how it was in Snow Leopard. You can do this by: A. go to the finder and open a new finder window by pressing cmd+n B. go to finder preferences by pressing cmd+comma. C. right arrow over until you hear: new finder windows show… D. right arrow over again and you will probably hear all files pop up button. E. VO space on the pop up button to open it. F. VO down arrow until you hear your name. this is your home folder. G. VO space when you find your name and this will close the pop up button and change the selection from all files to your home folder. H. close finder preferences with cmd+w. I. close the finder with cmd+w J. open the finder again with cmd+n. it will probably default to showing as icon view. To be safe, change the view to column view with cmd+3. VO will say "as columns checked." It looks way more complicated written out than it actually is. trust me. Your home folder is where your desktop, documents, downloads folder etc are stored. When you have it set to column view, it's similar to how it was in windows explorer, at least I found it was. If you want your documents for example, all you have to do is interact with the file browser VO+shift+down arrow and VO down arrow til you hear documents. use VO right arrow to open documents and VO down arrow to look through its contents. VO left arrow closes it and takes you back to your home folder. I found this the easiest way to browse the finder. Apart from the file browser, there is a side bar in the finder. You can get to it by VO left arrowing when you're not interacting with the file browser. The side bar is where you can see other computers on your network, other drives you have hooked up to your computer etc. Spotlight is a universal find feature. If you're not sure where exactly a file is stored on your computer, you can search for it in spotlight. Finder is where everything is stored and organized and spotlight is a quick way of finding things if you're not sure where they are. 4. the left hand menu bar or second layer menu bar is like the system tray in windows, yes. you activate it by pressing VO m twice quickly and then VO arrowing through its contents. 5. VO should start when your system starts as long as you don't turn it off before shutting down. If it doesn't I'd say maybe wait five minutes? just a really basic estimate though. But as long as you keep it on when you shut your computer down, it should come on when your computer starts up. 6. Voiceover can read the time and day by using the keyboard commander. You mentioned it already, maybe go into voiceover preferences/general and make sure "allow voiceover to be controlled by Apple scripts" is checked? strange that it would be using the system voice. 7. from the dock, or launcher as you called it, downloads, documents and applications don't open as they normally would. To open downloads for example, use VO+shift+m to bring up the contextual menu. VO down arrow until you hear "open downloads." VO space on open downloads. You will be then placed in a new finder window with downloads selected. interact with the file browser and VO right arrow to open the folder. documents and applications are also opened from the dock this way. Further down in your list of questions you asked about using the contextual menu and removing things from the dock. I'll cover those right now since we're on the topic of the contextual menu. Like I mentioned before, you bring it up with VO+shift+m . Let's pretend you wanted to remove iPhoto from your dock. go to the con
