Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Yeah a DD backup is of corse what i do first.
I can try it on my mac mini which i haven’t used for quite a long long time.
/A

> 16 dec. 2017 kl. 10:34 skrev 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>:
> 
> Hi, Anders:
> 
> I don't think installing Linux as a second OS on your Mac would be all
> that hard to do.
> 
> The diskutil tool makes it pretty easy to resize your drive. If you're
> OK with one of the Microsoft file systems like exfat, or some other fat
> variant, it can even format the new partition for you. I doubt most
> Linux people would want to accept that, though.
> 
> So, with a second partition defined, I think you simply boot from a USB
> stick, or a CDR/DVD with your installation media, and specify the new
> partition as where it installs.
> 
> That only leaves booting. I don't know whether the native Mac boot tool
> can boot ext4, or whatever Linux file system you would choose. It may
> not.
> 
> There is a third party boot tool called rEFInd:
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/refind/
> 
> I haven't had the nerve to try this yet myself. Frankly, I really think
> I want the graphical Windows environment available to me for business
> reasons, so getting a Linux terminal is very compelling to me.
> 
> However, if you do use a fat file system, I suspect the Apple boot
> loader would work just fine. After all, Windows is going to do something
> similar.
> 
> Probably the safest thing, though, is to get a good dd backup first.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Anders Holmberg writes:
>> Hi!
>> FOr me i wont install windows at all.
>> I just would like to be able to install debian or Ubuntu onto my mac as an 
>> alternative.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 14 dec. 2017 kl. 08:23 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> 
>>> Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD 
>>> Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition 
>>> This is half of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this
>>> Windows will only allow you to have 4 partitions before it gets problematic
>>> Those four partitions include the MacOS and windows partitions 
>>> And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
>>> systems -----Original Message-
>>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>>> Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2017 4:55 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
>>> 
>>> I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread.
>>> 
>>> First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three OS 
>>> boot environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is a 
>>> boot manager that would accomodate that called rEFInd. I have not gone 
>>> beyond the exploratory stage with this approach, because I've now abandoned 
>>> it.
>>> 
>>> The reason I've abandoned it is that Windows 10 developer tools provide a 
>>> very sophisticated Linux environment in the Windows Terminal. In fact one 
>>> will soon be able to choose one's preferred Linux distribution, or even to 
>>> have multiple installed Linux distributions, all available for use in the 
>>> Windows Terminal with screen readers like NVDA or JAWS.
>>> Here's the Microsoft announcement:
>>> 
>>> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/05/11/new-distros-coming-t
>>> 
>>> So, this convinced me that all I needed was a functional Bootcamp 
>>> installation. Well, almost all. I still need a way to share files between 
>>> the two boot environments.
>>> 
>>> My current solution to sharing is to split my Macintosh drive in three.
>>> Bootcamp will take care of the second partition for Windows. I'm creating 
>>> the third one, probably as JHFS, because I believe Bootcamp supports 
>>> accessing JHFS, whereas APFS is not yet supported.
>>> 
>>> Am I wrong about APFS? Anyone know for sure? I'd rather use APFS, frankly.
>>> 
>>> This is where I am at the moment, playing with diskutil in an ssh session 
>>> to the terminal on my Airbook in order to repartition my SSD to taste.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I've had quite a few false starts, but I'm learning as I go and I am 
>>> getting there. I expect I'll have a working Botcamp later today.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lastly, seems Apple has done something about my earlier

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Simon:

I think you and I are actually in agreement here, except that I think
this has just changed with Windows 10. I believe Windows 10 now supports
UEFI and GPT natively, which would remove this limitation. I can't prove
it just yet, but this is what I believe to be the situation.

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> It's not an apple issue it's a windows issue and has been around for years.
> 
>  Windows only allows for up to 4 partitions on a drive.try it and see what 
> happens.
> I will say this could have changed in the latest release of windows 10 but it 
> isn't likely.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Friday, 15 December 2017 8:11 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> Simon:
> 
> I'm not convinced you're correct about the partitioning limitations for 
> Bootcamp, though I suspect you may be correct for previous iterations of os x 
> and Windows. Apple was an early adopter of EFI and gpt, whereas Microsoft has 
> only recently joined the party leaving mbr behind.
> 
> I'm further hesitant because the man page for diskutil appears a bit lax with 
> its nomenclature, i.e. I'm still looking for clear definitions of what's a 
> disk, what's a partition, what's a container, and what's a volume. The term 
> 'disk' is for sure not being used consistently in the man page or the output 
> of the diskutil tool, e.g. I have one disk on this Airbook, a 500Gb SSD disk. 
> Yet the command output I reproduce below talks about "synthesized disks" as 
> well as targets with identifiers like disk1, disk2, disk3, and disk4. Not 
> very helpful, imo.
> 
> Note, please, I'm talking about the command line program disutil, not the 
> graphical Disk Utility tool in the Utilities folder. The cli tool provides 
> features not available in the gui app, but you have to be very precise in 
> your syntax--which is why nomenclature becomes so very important.
> 
> On my last attempt to install Windows using Bootcamp, there was but one 
> partition showing in the graphical Disk Utility tool, the main Mac agpfs 
> drive. I had successfully reduced it to 224Gb, and left the remainder of the 
> SSD unpartitioned and unformatted. I did this intentionally. I wanted to see 
> whether I could trick Bootcamp into installing itself at the end of 
> partitioned space, or whether it would insist at trying to install at the 
> very end of available physical space. It turned out to be the latter. The 
> below output demonstrates it attempted to create a Bootcamp partition at the 
> end of physical space, and then failed because it isn't programmed to cope 
> with unformatted physical space, i.e. it needs either apfs or hfs, I suppose.
> 
> My next attempt will present Bootcamp with two partitions using all available 
> space on the SSD. I'll go ahead and make thos apfs before I run Bootcamp, as 
> it's clearly able to work with apfs from my previous experience.
> 
> Here's the current status of my SSD according to disktool:
> 
> /dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
>#:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
>0:  GUID_partition_scheme*500.3 GB   disk0
>1:EFI EFI 209.7 MB   disk0s1
>2: Apple_APFS Container disk1 224.0 GB   disk0s2
> 
> /dev/disk1 (synthesized):
>#:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
>0:  APFS Container Scheme -  +224.0 GB   disk1
>  Physical Store disk0s2
>1:APFS Volume Macintosh HD60.4 GBdisk1s1
>2:APFS Volume Preboot 17.9 MBdisk1s2
>3:APFS Volume Recovery520.8 MB   disk1s3
>4:APFS Volume VM  1.1 GB disk1s4
> 
> /dev/disk3 (disk image):
>#:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
>0:CCCOMA_X64FRE_EN-US... +4.7 GB disk3
> 
> /dev/disk4 (disk image):
>#:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
>0:Boot Camp  +2.8 GB disk4
> 
> 
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Folks,
> > 
> > Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD 
> > Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition This is half 
> > of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this Windows will only 
> >

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Anders:

I don't think installing Linux as a second OS on your Mac would be all
that hard to do.

The diskutil tool makes it pretty easy to resize your drive. If you're
OK with one of the Microsoft file systems like exfat, or some other fat
variant, it can even format the new partition for you. I doubt most
Linux people would want to accept that, though.

So, with a second partition defined, I think you simply boot from a USB
stick, or a CDR/DVD with your installation media, and specify the new
partition as where it installs.

That only leaves booting. I don't know whether the native Mac boot tool
can boot ext4, or whatever Linux file system you would choose. It may
not.

There is a third party boot tool called rEFInd:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/refind/

I haven't had the nerve to try this yet myself. Frankly, I really think
I want the graphical Windows environment available to me for business
reasons, so getting a Linux terminal is very compelling to me.

However, if you do use a fat file system, I suspect the Apple boot
loader would work just fine. After all, Windows is going to do something
similar.

Probably the safest thing, though, is to get a good dd backup first.

Janina

Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> FOr me i wont install windows at all.
> I just would like to be able to install debian or Ubuntu onto my mac as an 
> alternative.
> /A
> 
> > 14 dec. 2017 kl. 08:23 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:
> > 
> > Hi Folks,
> > 
> > Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD 
> > Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition 
> > This is half of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this
> > Windows will only allow you to have 4 partitions before it gets problematic
> > Those four partitions include the MacOS and windows partitions 
> > And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
> > systems -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2017 4:55 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread.
> > 
> > First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three OS 
> > boot environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is a 
> > boot manager that would accomodate that called rEFInd. I have not gone 
> > beyond the exploratory stage with this approach, because I've now abandoned 
> > it.
> > 
> > The reason I've abandoned it is that Windows 10 developer tools provide a 
> > very sophisticated Linux environment in the Windows Terminal. In fact one 
> > will soon be able to choose one's preferred Linux distribution, or even to 
> > have multiple installed Linux distributions, all available for use in the 
> > Windows Terminal with screen readers like NVDA or JAWS.
> > Here's the Microsoft announcement:
> > 
> > https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/05/11/new-distros-coming-t
> > 
> > So, this convinced me that all I needed was a functional Bootcamp 
> > installation. Well, almost all. I still need a way to share files between 
> > the two boot environments.
> > 
> > My current solution to sharing is to split my Macintosh drive in three.
> > Bootcamp will take care of the second partition for Windows. I'm creating 
> > the third one, probably as JHFS, because I believe Bootcamp supports 
> > accessing JHFS, whereas APFS is not yet supported.
> > 
> > Am I wrong about APFS? Anyone know for sure? I'd rather use APFS, frankly.
> > 
> > This is where I am at the moment, playing with diskutil in an ssh session 
> > to the terminal on my Airbook in order to repartition my SSD to taste.
> > 
> > 
> > I've had quite a few false starts, but I'm learning as I go and I am 
> > getting there. I expect I'll have a working Botcamp later today.
> > 
> > 
> > Lastly, seems Apple has done something about my earlier complaint. Seems 
> > the only reason I have to burn Windows to a USB stick is that my Airbook is 
> > too old to support mounting the Windows ISO file for a Bootcamp install. I 
> > ran across a Bootcamp page explaining what hardware can, and can't do that. 
> > However, once I answered that question, I had no further need for the page, 
> > so I didn't bookmark it. Sorry!
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Anders Holmberg writes:
> >> Hi!
> >> I wonder if its more easy to install Linux in a bootcamp partition suc

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Janina,

It's not an apple issue it's a windows issue and has been around for years.

 Windows only allows for up to 4 partitions on a drive.try it and see what 
happens.
I will say this could have changed in the latest release of windows 10 but it 
isn't likely.


-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 15 December 2017 8:11 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

Simon:

I'm not convinced you're correct about the partitioning limitations for 
Bootcamp, though I suspect you may be correct for previous iterations of os x 
and Windows. Apple was an early adopter of EFI and gpt, whereas Microsoft has 
only recently joined the party leaving mbr behind.

I'm further hesitant because the man page for diskutil appears a bit lax with 
its nomenclature, i.e. I'm still looking for clear definitions of what's a 
disk, what's a partition, what's a container, and what's a volume. The term 
'disk' is for sure not being used consistently in the man page or the output of 
the diskutil tool, e.g. I have one disk on this Airbook, a 500Gb SSD disk. Yet 
the command output I reproduce below talks about "synthesized disks" as well as 
targets with identifiers like disk1, disk2, disk3, and disk4. Not very helpful, 
imo.

Note, please, I'm talking about the command line program disutil, not the 
graphical Disk Utility tool in the Utilities folder. The cli tool provides 
features not available in the gui app, but you have to be very precise in your 
syntax--which is why nomenclature becomes so very important.

On my last attempt to install Windows using Bootcamp, there was but one 
partition showing in the graphical Disk Utility tool, the main Mac agpfs drive. 
I had successfully reduced it to 224Gb, and left the remainder of the SSD 
unpartitioned and unformatted. I did this intentionally. I wanted to see 
whether I could trick Bootcamp into installing itself at the end of partitioned 
space, or whether it would insist at trying to install at the very end of 
available physical space. It turned out to be the latter. The below output 
demonstrates it attempted to create a Bootcamp partition at the end of physical 
space, and then failed because it isn't programmed to cope with unformatted 
physical space, i.e. it needs either apfs or hfs, I suppose.

My next attempt will present Bootcamp with two partitions using all available 
space on the SSD. I'll go ahead and make thos apfs before I run Bootcamp, as 
it's clearly able to work with apfs from my previous experience.

Here's the current status of my SSD according to disktool:

/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:  GUID_partition_scheme*500.3 GB   disk0
   1:EFI EFI 209.7 MB   disk0s1
   2: Apple_APFS Container disk1 224.0 GB   disk0s2

/dev/disk1 (synthesized):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:  APFS Container Scheme -  +224.0 GB   disk1
 Physical Store disk0s2
   1:APFS Volume Macintosh HD60.4 GBdisk1s1
   2:APFS Volume Preboot 17.9 MBdisk1s2
   3:APFS Volume Recovery520.8 MB   disk1s3
   4:APFS Volume VM  1.1 GB disk1s4

/dev/disk3 (disk image):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:CCCOMA_X64FRE_EN-US... +4.7 GB disk3

/dev/disk4 (disk image):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:Boot Camp  +2.8 GB disk4



Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD 
> Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition This is half 
> of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this Windows will only 
> allow you to have 4 partitions before it gets problematic Those four 
> partitions include the MacOS and windows partitions And I haven't yet 
> seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up systems 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2017 4:55 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread.
> 
> First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three OS 
> boot environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is a boot 
> manager that would ac

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
FOr me i wont install windows at all.
I just would like to be able to install debian or Ubuntu onto my mac as an 
alternative.
/A

> 14 dec. 2017 kl. 08:23 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD 
> Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition 
> This is half of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this
> Windows will only allow you to have 4 partitions before it gets problematic
> Those four partitions include the MacOS and windows partitions 
> And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
> systems -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2017 4:55 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread.
> 
> First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three OS 
> boot environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is a boot 
> manager that would accomodate that called rEFInd. I have not gone beyond the 
> exploratory stage with this approach, because I've now abandoned it.
> 
> The reason I've abandoned it is that Windows 10 developer tools provide a 
> very sophisticated Linux environment in the Windows Terminal. In fact one 
> will soon be able to choose one's preferred Linux distribution, or even to 
> have multiple installed Linux distributions, all available for use in the 
> Windows Terminal with screen readers like NVDA or JAWS.
> Here's the Microsoft announcement:
> 
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/05/11/new-distros-coming-t
> 
> So, this convinced me that all I needed was a functional Bootcamp 
> installation. Well, almost all. I still need a way to share files between the 
> two boot environments.
> 
> My current solution to sharing is to split my Macintosh drive in three.
> Bootcamp will take care of the second partition for Windows. I'm creating the 
> third one, probably as JHFS, because I believe Bootcamp supports accessing 
> JHFS, whereas APFS is not yet supported.
> 
> Am I wrong about APFS? Anyone know for sure? I'd rather use APFS, frankly.
> 
> This is where I am at the moment, playing with diskutil in an ssh session to 
> the terminal on my Airbook in order to repartition my SSD to taste.
> 
> 
> I've had quite a few false starts, but I'm learning as I go and I am getting 
> there. I expect I'll have a working Botcamp later today.
> 
> 
> Lastly, seems Apple has done something about my earlier complaint. Seems the 
> only reason I have to burn Windows to a USB stick is that my Airbook is too 
> old to support mounting the Windows ISO file for a Bootcamp install. I ran 
> across a Bootcamp page explaining what hardware can, and can't do that. 
> However, once I answered that question, I had no further need for the page, 
> so I didn't bookmark it. Sorry!
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anders Holmberg writes:
>> Hi!
>> I wonder if its more easy to install Linux in a bootcamp partition such as 
>> Debian onto the mac.
>> Has anyone here tried to have both Osx and linux installed so that you can 
>> boot into linux and then shutdown linux and boot back into Hi Sierra for 
>> example.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 8 dec. 2017 kl. 07:16 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:
>>> 
>>> HiJanina,
>>> 
>>> I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
>>> partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as 
>>> the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, 
>>> this I don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the required 
>>> installation files and apple can read from the ISO
>>> 
>>> But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
>>> will let the windows installation work directly from that USB rather 
>>> than through the middle man AFS
>>> 
>>> In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
>>> rather simple smallish file
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
>>> 
>>> I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
>>> access to the file syste

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

David Tanner writes:
> Could someone please repeat the address for where to get the tutorial I 
> missed it somewhere along the line and have not been able to go back and find 
> it thank you.
> 

CAUTION: Long web link. May be broken into two lines on your screen!

https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/


> David Tanner
> 
> >From my iPhone 7
> 
> > On Dec 14, 2017, at 1:28 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > One more response, Simon,
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> >> ...
> > 
> >> And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
> >> systems
> > 
> > If you mean don't use the same USB stick a second time, this is correct.
> > 
> > It claims to format the stick, but it seems to only format unused space,
> > thus eventually overfilling the medium.
> > 
> > I've confirmed this by examing file contents using my Linux computer.
> > 
> > I now routinely repartition and reformat on the Linux cli -- takes not
> > even 30 seconds to do all that.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > -- 
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
> >  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
> > you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > --- 
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> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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> list.
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> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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-- 

Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
Email:  jan...@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[David Tanner]

Could someone please repeat the address for where to get the tutorial I missed 
it somewhere along the line and have not been able to go back and find it thank 
you.

David Tanner

>From my iPhone 7

> On Dec 14, 2017, at 1:28 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> One more response, Simon,
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
>> ...
> 
>> And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
>> systems
> 
> If you mean don't use the same USB stick a second time, this is correct.
> 
> It claims to format the stick, but it seems to only format unused space,
> thus eventually overfilling the medium.
> 
> I've confirmed this by examing file contents using my Linux computer.
> 
> I now routinely repartition and reformat on the Linux cli -- takes not
> even 30 seconds to do all that.
> 
> Janina
> 
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Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

One more response, Simon,

Simon Fogarty writes:
> ...

> And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
> systems

If you mean don't use the same USB stick a second time, this is correct.

It claims to format the stick, but it seems to only format unused space,
thus eventually overfilling the medium.

I've confirmed this by examing file contents using my Linux computer.

I now routinely repartition and reformat on the Linux cli -- takes not
even 30 seconds to do all that.

Janina

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Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Simon:

I'm not convinced you're correct about the partitioning limitations for
Bootcamp, though I suspect you may be correct for previous iterations of
os x and Windows. Apple was an early adopter of EFI and gpt, whereas Microsoft
has only recently joined the party leaving mbr behind.

I'm further hesitant because the man page for diskutil appears a bit lax
with its nomenclature, i.e. I'm still looking for clear definitions of
what's a disk, what's a partition, what's a container, and what's a
volume. The term 'disk' is for sure not being used consistently in the
man page or the output of the diskutil tool, e.g. I have one disk on
this Airbook, a 500Gb SSD disk. Yet the command output I reproduce below
talks about "synthesized disks" as well as targets with identifiers like
disk1, disk2, disk3, and disk4. Not very helpful, imo.

Note, please, I'm talking about the command line program disutil, not
the graphical Disk Utility tool in the Utilities folder. The cli tool
provides features not available in the gui app, but you have to be very
precise in your syntax--which is why nomenclature becomes so very
important.

On my last attempt to install Windows using Bootcamp, there was but one
partition showing in the graphical Disk Utility tool, the main Mac agpfs
drive. I had successfully reduced it to 224Gb, and left the remainder of
the SSD unpartitioned and unformatted. I did this intentionally. I
wanted to see whether I could trick Bootcamp into installing itself at
the end of partitioned space, or whether it would insist at trying to
install at the very end of available physical space. It turned out to be
the latter. The below output demonstrates it attempted to create a
Bootcamp partition at the end of physical space, and then failed because
it isn't programmed to cope with unformatted physical space, i.e. it
needs either apfs or hfs, I suppose.

My next attempt will present Bootcamp with two partitions using all
available space on the SSD. I'll go ahead and make thos apfs before I
run Bootcamp, as it's clearly able to work with apfs from my previous
experience.

Here's the current status of my SSD according to disktool:

/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:  GUID_partition_scheme*500.3 GB   disk0
   1:EFI EFI 209.7 MB   disk0s1
   2: Apple_APFS Container disk1 224.0 GB   disk0s2

/dev/disk1 (synthesized):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:  APFS Container Scheme -  +224.0 GB   disk1
 Physical Store disk0s2
   1:APFS Volume Macintosh HD60.4 GBdisk1s1
   2:APFS Volume Preboot 17.9 MBdisk1s2
   3:APFS Volume Recovery520.8 MB   disk1s3
   4:APFS Volume VM  1.1 GB disk1s4

/dev/disk3 (disk image):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:CCCOMA_X64FRE_EN-US... +4.7 GB disk3

/dev/disk4 (disk image):
   #:   TYPE NAMESIZE   IDENTIFIER
   0:Boot Camp  +2.8 GB disk4



Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD 
> Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition 
> This is half of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this
> Windows will only allow you to have 4 partitions before it gets problematic
> Those four partitions include the MacOS and windows partitions 
> And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
> systems -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2017 4:55 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread.
> 
> First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three OS 
> boot environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is a boot 
> manager that would accomodate that called rEFInd. I have not gone beyond the 
> exploratory stage with this approach, because I've now abandoned it.
> 
> The reason I've abandoned it is that Windows 10 developer tools provide a 
> very sophisticated Linux environment in the Windows Terminal. In fact one 
> will soon be able to choose one's preferred Linux distribution, or even to 
> have multiple installed Linux distributions, all available for use in the 
> Windows Terminal with screen readers like NVDA or JAWS.
> Here's the Microsoft a

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Folks,

Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD 
Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition 
This is half of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this
Windows will only allow you to have 4 partitions before it gets problematic
Those four partitions include the MacOS and windows partitions 
And I haven't yet seen bootcamp allow you to use  it twice in setting up 
systems -Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2017 4:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread.

First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three OS boot 
environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is a boot manager 
that would accomodate that called rEFInd. I have not gone beyond the 
exploratory stage with this approach, because I've now abandoned it.

The reason I've abandoned it is that Windows 10 developer tools provide a very 
sophisticated Linux environment in the Windows Terminal. In fact one will soon 
be able to choose one's preferred Linux distribution, or even to have multiple 
installed Linux distributions, all available for use in the Windows Terminal 
with screen readers like NVDA or JAWS.
Here's the Microsoft announcement:

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/05/11/new-distros-coming-t

So, this convinced me that all I needed was a functional Bootcamp installation. 
Well, almost all. I still need a way to share files between the two boot 
environments.

My current solution to sharing is to split my Macintosh drive in three.
Bootcamp will take care of the second partition for Windows. I'm creating the 
third one, probably as JHFS, because I believe Bootcamp supports accessing 
JHFS, whereas APFS is not yet supported.

Am I wrong about APFS? Anyone know for sure? I'd rather use APFS, frankly.

This is where I am at the moment, playing with diskutil in an ssh session to 
the terminal on my Airbook in order to repartition my SSD to taste.


I've had quite a few false starts, but I'm learning as I go and I am getting 
there. I expect I'll have a working Botcamp later today.


Lastly, seems Apple has done something about my earlier complaint. Seems the 
only reason I have to burn Windows to a USB stick is that my Airbook is too old 
to support mounting the Windows ISO file for a Bootcamp install. I ran across a 
Bootcamp page explaining what hardware can, and can't do that. However, once I 
answered that question, I had no further need for the page, so I didn't 
bookmark it. Sorry!

Janina




Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> I wonder if its more easy to install Linux in a bootcamp partition such as 
> Debian onto the mac.
> Has anyone here tried to have both Osx and linux installed so that you can 
> boot into linux and then shutdown linux and boot back into Hi Sierra for 
> example.
> /A
> 
> > 8 dec. 2017 kl. 07:16 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:
> > 
> > HiJanina,
> > 
> > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> > partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as 
> > the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, 
> > this I don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the required 
> > installation files and apple can read from the ISO
> > 
> > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
> > will let the windows installation work directly from that USB rather 
> > than through the middle man AFS
> > 
> > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
> > rather simple smallish file
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
> > access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
> > Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> > 
> > 
> > I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> > That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
> > the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required 
> > in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
> > lament!
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> >> Hi Janina
> >> 
> >> Well in simpl

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread.

First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three
OS boot environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is
a boot manager that would accomodate that called rEFInd. I have not gone
beyond the exploratory stage with this approach, because I've now
abandoned it.

The reason I've abandoned it is that Windows 10 developer tools provide
a very sophisticated Linux environment in the Windows Terminal. In fact
one will soon be able to choose one's preferred Linux distribution, or
even to have multiple installed Linux distributions, all available for
use in the Windows Terminal with screen readers like NVDA or JAWS.
Here's the Microsoft announcement:

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/05/11/new-distros-coming-t

So, this convinced me that all I needed was a functional Bootcamp
installation. Well, almost all. I still need a way to share files
between the two boot environments.

My current solution to sharing is to split my Macintosh drive in three.
Bootcamp will take care of the second partition for Windows. I'm
creating the third one, probably as JHFS, because I believe Bootcamp
supports accessing JHFS, whereas APFS is not yet supported.

Am I wrong about APFS? Anyone know for sure? I'd rather use APFS,
frankly.

This is where I am at the moment, playing with diskutil in an ssh
session to the terminal on my Airbook in order to repartition my SSD to taste.


I've had quite a few false starts, but I'm learning as I go and I am
getting there. I expect I'll have a working Botcamp later today.


Lastly, seems Apple has done something about my earlier complaint. Seems
the only reason I have to burn Windows to a USB stick is that my Airbook
is too old to support mounting the Windows ISO file for a Bootcamp
install. I ran across a Bootcamp page explaining what hardware can, and
can't do that. However, once I answered that question, I had no further
need for the page, so I didn't bookmark it. Sorry!

Janina




Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> I wonder if its more easy to install Linux in a bootcamp partition such as 
> Debian onto the mac.
> Has anyone here tried to have both Osx and linux installed so that you can 
> boot into linux and then shutdown linux and boot back into Hi Sierra for 
> example.
> /A
> 
> > 8 dec. 2017 kl. 07:16 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:
> > 
> > HiJanina,
> > 
> > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> > partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the AFS, 
> > then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I don't see 
> > as an issue as the ISO file contains the required installation files and 
> > apple can read from the ISO 
> > 
> > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive will let 
> > the windows installation work directly from that USB rather than through 
> > the middle man AFS 
> > 
> > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one rather 
> > simple smallish file
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> > Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
> > access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
> > Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> > 
> > 
> > I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> > That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
> > the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required 
> > in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
> > lament!
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> >> Hi Janina
> >> 
> >> Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> >> 
> >> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple 
> >> / mac computers in their ISO files.
> >> 
> >> What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
> >> bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
> >> done it starts the full installation,
> >> 
> >> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
> >> the usb.
> >> 
> >> Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
> >> 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> F

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I wonder if its more easy to install Linux in a bootcamp partition such as 
Debian onto the mac.
Has anyone here tried to have both Osx and linux installed so that you can boot 
into linux and then shutdown linux and boot back into Hi Sierra for example.
/A

> 8 dec. 2017 kl. 07:16 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:
> 
> HiJanina,
> 
> I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the AFS, 
> then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I don't see as 
> an issue as the ISO file contains the required installation files and apple 
> can read from the ISO 
> 
> But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive will let 
> the windows installation work directly from that USB rather than through the 
> middle man AFS 
> 
> In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one rather 
> simple smallish file
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
> access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
> Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> 
> 
> I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
> the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required in 
> the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
> lament!
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
>> Hi Janina
>> 
>> Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
>> 
>> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / 
>> mac computers in their ISO files.
>> 
>> What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
>> bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
>> done it starts the full installation,
>> 
>> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
>> the usb.
>> 
>> Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
>> 
>> Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long 
>> that process takes.
>> 
>> It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to create 
>> the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like is so 
>> common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just to cite 
>> one example.
>> 
>> Just curious.
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Aleeha Dudley writes:
>>> Hey all,
>>> I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast that 
>>> shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
>>> assistance. 
>>> The URL is: 
>>> https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-
>>> a-
>>> mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
>>> I hope this helps someone.
>>> Aleeha
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> To post to this group, send 

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Janina

You've installed the latest windows os version,
Yes my boot camp was done a year or so back so there was no assistive 
installation.

And yes the key presses I am aware of.

Thanks.


-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 10 December 2017 7:39 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

Hi, Simon:

The Windows part of the install process is fully accessible. It's not the same 
screen review commands you know from Voice Over, of course, because it isn't 
Voice Over being, rather Narrator on Windows. But, all one need do is activate 
Narrator some little time after the Windows installer starts by pressing 
Windows plus Control plus Enter.

FYI:The Command key becomes the Windows key
The Option key becomes the Alt key
Return becomes Enter

All this is explained in the podcast that is the first message in this email 
thread. I am remiss for not thanking them for showing the way.
They're a bit chatty while waiting for the computer to do its thing, i.e. the 
podcast could be improved by being edited down to no more than ten minutes, but 
all the data is there and it's quite well illustrated.

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
>  Yeah but if you’re a total like me
> You get the reboot and then it all goes dark and quiet, and you have to ask 
> for sighted assistances.
> 
>  I so wish Microsoft would put a fully accessibile installation means in to 
> all windows systems.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 2:42 PM
> To: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon 
> enough! 
> 
> This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a second's 
> notice, and all went fine.
> 
> Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since, since 
> ... Well, I don't know since ...
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> > Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
> > 
> > I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list 
> > of possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct 
> > that search yet.
> > 
> > I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it 
> > didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, 
> > boot camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour.
> > I decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option 
> > Command Escape.
> > 
> > Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need 
> > a hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its 
> > terminal environment.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > Hi Janina
> > > 
> > >  Waw,
> > > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> > > 
> > > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put 
> > > that down to my internet connection Possibly you have a corrupt config 
> > > file somewhere that needs to be removed to allow that USB to be seen 
> > > again by bootcamp.
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp 
> > > accessibly
> > > 
> > > Hi, Simon:
> > > 
> > > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log 
> > > of old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth 
> > > of formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > > 
> > > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvr

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I'm personally partial to the gamer headsets from Sennheiser. These are
headsets, meaning they include a microphone. I've used mine as a soft
phone for years. You can find them via Amazon. There model numbers keep
changing, as do the prices, so wait for a sale.

Janina

ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com writes:
> Hi,
> 
> I just need to get a good USB headset and I will be all set.  If I can get 
> this working, I can get rid of windows 10 in a vm and use it natively.  
> Anyone know whare I can get one?  Thanks.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 8:45 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> Hi Janina,
> 
>  Yeah but if you’re a total like me
> You get the reboot and then it all goes dark and quiet, and you have to ask 
> for sighted assistances.
> 
>  I so wish Microsoft would put a fully accessibile installation means in to 
> all windows systems.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 2:42 PM
> To: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon enough! 
> 
> 
> This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a second's 
> notice, and all went fine.
> 
> Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since, since 
> ... Well, I don't know since ...
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> > Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
> > 
> > I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of 
> > possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that 
> > search yet.
> > 
> > I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it 
> > didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, 
> > boot camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour.
> > I decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option 
> > Command Escape.
> > 
> > Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a 
> > hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its 
> > terminal environment.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > Hi Janina
> > > 
> > >  Waw,
> > > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> > > 
> > > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put 
> > > that down to my internet connection Possibly you have a corrupt config 
> > > file somewhere that needs to be removed to allow that USB to be seen 
> > > again by bootcamp.
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > > 
> > > Hi, Simon:
> > > 
> > > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log 
> > > of old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth 
> > > of formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > > 
> > > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > > Sheesh.
> > > 
> > > Janina
> > > 
> > > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > > HiJanina,
> > > > 
> > > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a 
> > > > new partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process 
> > > > as the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT 
>

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Simon:

The Windows part of the install process is fully accessible. It's not
the same screen review commands you know from Voice Over, of course,
because it isn't Voice Over being, rather Narrator on Windows. But, all
one need do is activate Narrator some little time after the Windows
installer starts by pressing Windows plus Control plus Enter.

FYI:The Command key becomes the Windows key
The Option key becomes the Alt key
Return becomes Enter

All this is explained in the podcast that is the first message in this
email thread. I am remiss for not thanking them for showing the way.
They're a bit chatty while waiting for the computer to do its thing,
i.e. the podcast could be improved by being edited down to no more than
ten minutes, but all the data is there and it's quite well illustrated.

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
>  Yeah but if you’re a total like me 
> You get the reboot and then it all goes dark and quiet, and you have to ask 
> for sighted assistances.
> 
>  I so wish Microsoft would put a fully accessibile installation means in to 
> all windows systems.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 2:42 PM
> To: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon enough! 
> 
> 
> This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a second's 
> notice, and all went fine.
> 
> Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since, since 
> ... Well, I don't know since ...
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> > Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
> > 
> > I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of 
> > possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that 
> > search yet.
> > 
> > I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it 
> > didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, 
> > boot camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour. 
> > I decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option 
> > Command Escape.
> > 
> > Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a 
> > hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its 
> > terminal environment.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > Hi Janina
> > > 
> > >  Waw,
> > > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> > > 
> > > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put 
> > > that down to my internet connection Possibly you have a corrupt config 
> > > file somewhere that needs to be removed to allow that USB to be seen 
> > > again by bootcamp.
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > > 
> > > Hi, Simon:
> > > 
> > > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log 
> > > of old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth 
> > > of formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > > 
> > > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > > Sheesh.
> > > 
> > > Janina
> > > 
> > > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > > HiJanina,
> > > > 
> > > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a 
> > > > new partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process 
> > > > as the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT 
> > > > format, this I don't see as an i

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[ilovecountrymusic483]

Hi,

I just need to get a good USB headset and I will be all set.  If I can get this 
working, I can get rid of windows 10 in a vm and use it natively.  Anyone know 
whare I can get one?  Thanks.

Matthew



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 8:45 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

Hi Janina,

 Yeah but if you’re a total like me
You get the reboot and then it all goes dark and quiet, and you have to ask for 
sighted assistances.

 I so wish Microsoft would put a fully accessibile installation means in to all 
windows systems.

-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 2:42 PM
To: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon enough! 


This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a second's 
notice, and all went fine.

Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since, since ... 
Well, I don't know since ...

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
> 
> I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of 
> possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that 
> search yet.
> 
> I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it 
> didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, 
> boot camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour.
> I decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option 
> Command Escape.
> 
> Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a 
> hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its 
> terminal environment.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Janina
> > 
> >  Waw,
> > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> > 
> > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put 
> > that down to my internet connection Possibly you have a corrupt config file 
> > somewhere that needs to be removed to allow that USB to be seen again by 
> > bootcamp.
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > Hi, Simon:
> > 
> > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log of 
> > old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> > 
> > 
> > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth of 
> > formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > 
> > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > Sheesh.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > HiJanina,
> > > 
> > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a 
> > > new partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process 
> > > as the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT 
> > > format, this I don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the 
> > > required installation files and apple can read from the ISO
> > > 
> > > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
> > > will let the windows installation work directly from that USB 
> > > rather than through the middle man AFS
> > > 
> > > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
> > > rather simple smallish file
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with boo

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi, I haven’t tried that but I have just installed the update to the newest 
version and yes narrator is using that new key press. Although using windows u 
and then alt n still seems to work at the log in prompt.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Griffith
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 8:05 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly


I have not been following this thread but I understood that one of the big 
features of the Windows 10 Fall Update that came out this Autumn is that it is 
now possible for blind people now can install Accessibily out of the box.  
Narrator is now available during Setup. You turn Narrator on with control 
windows enter. I  have not tried it myself but it certainly has been reported.
My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
Sent: 09 December 2017 01:45
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

Hi Janina,

Yeah but if you’re a total like me
You get the reboot and then it all goes dark and quiet, and you have to ask for 
sighted assistances.

I so wish Microsoft would put a fully accessibile installation means in to all 
windows systems.

-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 2:42 PM
To: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon enough! 


This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a second's 
notice, and all went fine.

Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since, since ... 
Well, I don't know since ...

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
>
> I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of
> possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that
> search yet.
>
> I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it
> didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB,
> boot camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour.
> I decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option
> Command Escape.
>
> Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a
> hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its
> terminal environment.
>
> Janina
>
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Janina
> >
> >  Waw,
> > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> >
> > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put
> > that down to my internet connection Possibly you have a corrupt config file 
> > somewhere that needs to be removed to allow that USB to be seen again by 
> > bootcamp.
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> >
> > Hi, Simon:
> >
> > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log of 
> > old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> >
> >
> > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth of 
> > formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> >
> > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > Sheesh.
> >
> > Janina
> >
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > HiJanina,
> > >
> > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a
> > > new partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process
> > > as the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT
> > > format, this I don't see as an iss

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[David Griffith]

I have not been following this thread but I understood that one of the big 
features of the Windows 10 Fall Update that came out this Autumn is that it is 
now possible for blind people now can install Accessibily out of the box.  
Narrator is now available during Setup. You turn Narrator on with control 
windows enter. I  have not tried it myself but it certainly has been reported.
My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

From: Simon Fogarty
Sent: 09 December 2017 01:45
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

Hi Janina,

 Yeah but if you’re a total like me 
You get the reboot and then it all goes dark and quiet, and you have to ask for 
sighted assistances.

 I so wish Microsoft would put a fully accessibile installation means in to all 
windows systems.

-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 2:42 PM
To: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon enough! 


This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a second's 
notice, and all went fine.

Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since, since ... 
Well, I don't know since ...

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
> 
> I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of 
> possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that 
> search yet.
> 
> I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it 
> didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, 
> boot camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour. 
> I decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option 
> Command Escape.
> 
> Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a 
> hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its 
> terminal environment.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Janina
> > 
> >  Waw,
> > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> > 
> > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put 
> > that down to my internet connection Possibly you have a corrupt config file 
> > somewhere that needs to be removed to allow that USB to be seen again by 
> > bootcamp.
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > Hi, Simon:
> > 
> > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log of 
> > old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> > 
> > 
> > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth of 
> > formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > 
> > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > Sheesh.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > HiJanina,
> > > 
> > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a 
> > > new partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process 
> > > as the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT 
> > > format, this I don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the 
> > > required installation files and apple can read from the ISO
> > > 
> > > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
> > > will let the windows installation work directly from that USB 
> > > rather than through the middle man AFS
> > > 
> > > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
> > > rather simple smallish file
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Janina,

 Yeah but if you’re a total like me 
You get the reboot and then it all goes dark and quiet, and you have to ask for 
sighted assistances.

 I so wish Microsoft would put a fully accessibile installation means in to all 
windows systems.

-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 2:42 PM
To: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon enough! 


This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a second's 
notice, and all went fine.

Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since, since ... 
Well, I don't know since ...

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
> 
> I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of 
> possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that 
> search yet.
> 
> I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it 
> didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, 
> boot camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour. 
> I decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option 
> Command Escape.
> 
> Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a 
> hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its 
> terminal environment.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Janina
> > 
> >  Waw,
> > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> > 
> > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put 
> > that down to my internet connection Possibly you have a corrupt config file 
> > somewhere that needs to be removed to allow that USB to be seen again by 
> > bootcamp.
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > Hi, Simon:
> > 
> > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log of 
> > old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> > 
> > 
> > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth of 
> > formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > 
> > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > Sheesh.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > HiJanina,
> > > 
> > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a 
> > > new partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process 
> > > as the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT 
> > > format, this I don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the 
> > > required installation files and apple can read from the ISO
> > > 
> > > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
> > > will let the windows installation work directly from that USB 
> > > rather than through the middle man AFS
> > > 
> > > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
> > > rather simple smallish file
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp 
> > > accessibly
> > > 
> > > I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue 
> > > is access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft 
> > > and Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> > > That makes tons of sense. But, why not

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

No, not a bad config, just bad behavior because I didn't respond soon
enough! 

This time I baby sat the install, ready to enter my password at a
second's notice, and all went fine.

Sheesh.  I haven't had to work this hard on an install since, since,
since ... Well, I don't know since ...

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.
> 
> I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of
> possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that
> search yet.
> 
> I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it
> didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, boot
> camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour. I
> decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option Command
> Escape.
> 
> Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a
> hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its
> terminal environment.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Janina 
> > 
> >  Waw,
> > I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> > 
> > I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put that down 
> > to my internet connection 
> > Possibly you have a corrupt config file somewhere that needs to be removed 
> > to allow that USB to be seen again by bootcamp.
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> > Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > Hi, Simon:
> > 
> > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process 
> > of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log of 
> > old code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> > 
> > 
> > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or 
> > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and 
> > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth of 
> > formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > 
> > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > Sheesh.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > HiJanina,
> > > 
> > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> > > partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the 
> > > AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I 
> > > don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the required 
> > > installation files and apple can read from the ISO
> > > 
> > > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
> > > will let the windows installation work directly from that USB rather 
> > > than through the middle man AFS
> > > 
> > > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
> > > rather simple smallish file
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > > 
> > > I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue 
> > > is access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft 
> > > and Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> > > That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs 
> > > in the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's 
> > > required in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness 
> > > behind this lament!
> > > 
> > > Janina
> > > 
> > > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > > Hi Janina
> > > > 
> > > >  Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> > > > 
> > > > Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all 
> >

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, Simon. I think possibly a bad config somewhere.

I think I saw a message in one Google search that specified a list of
possible culpirt files, but I haven't been able to reconstruct that
search yet.

I ran both the scm and nvram procedures I found referenced. But it
didn't seem to help. After copying all kinds of files onto the USB, boot
camp got locked into a "boot camp busy" message for a good hour. I
decided that was some kind of loop so blasted out with Option Command
Escape.

Back to the drawing board. I seriously want this to succeed. I need a
hard look at the Linux support Windows 10 is now providing in its
terminal environment.

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Janina 
> 
>  Waw,
> I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.
> 
> I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put that down 
> to my internet connection 
> Possibly you have a corrupt config file somewhere that needs to be removed to 
> allow that USB to be seen again by bootcamp.
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> Hi, Simon:
> 
> I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process of 
> writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log of old 
> code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.
> 
> 
> It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly pulled 
> the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or forgiven 
> me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and repartitioned it 
> on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth of 
> formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> 
> I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> Sheesh.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > HiJanina,
> > 
> > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> > partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the 
> > AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I 
> > don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the required 
> > installation files and apple can read from the ISO
> > 
> > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
> > will let the windows installation work directly from that USB rather 
> > than through the middle man AFS
> > 
> > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
> > rather simple smallish file
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
> > access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
> > Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> > 
> > 
> > I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> > That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
> > the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required 
> > in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
> > lament!
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> > > Hi Janina
> > > 
> > >  Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> > > 
> > > Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple 
> > > / mac computers in their ISO files.
> > > 
> > > What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
> > > bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
> > > done it starts the full installation,
> > > 
> > > There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers 
> > > on the usb.
> > > 
> > > Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
> > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing wind

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Phil:

Phil Halton writes:
> How are people using Linux? But screen reader are we using there?
> 
In my case it's Speakup in the console environment and Orca in the
graphical desktop environment. There are additional options on the
console, but only Orca in the GUI.

Janina

> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
> > On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:22 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi, Simon:
> > 
> > I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp
> > process of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's
> > just a log of old code there than hasn't been updated since the
> > Pleistocene.
> > 
> > 
> > It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly
> > pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or
> > forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and
> > repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> > But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth
> > of formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> > 
> > I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> > Sheesh.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Simon Fogarty writes:
> >> HiJanina,
> >> 
> >> I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> >> partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the AFS, 
> >> then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I don't see 
> >> as an issue as the ISO file contains the required installation files and 
> >> apple can read from the ISO 
> >> 
> >> But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive will 
> >> let the windows installation work directly from that USB rather than 
> >> through the middle man AFS 
> >> 
> >> In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one rather 
> >> simple smallish file
> >> 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> >> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> >> 
> >> I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue 
> >> is access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft 
> >> and Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> >> That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
> >> the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required 
> >> in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
> >> lament!
> >> 
> >> Janina
> >> 
> >> Simon Fogarty writes:
> >>> Hi Janina
> >>> 
> >>> Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> >>> 
> >>> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple 
> >>> / mac computers in their ISO files.
> >>> 
> >>> What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
> >>> bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
> >>> done it starts the full installation,
> >>> 
> >>> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers 
> >>> on the usb.
> >>> 
> >>> Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> >>> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> >>> 
> >>> Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how 
> >>> long that process takes.
> >>> 
> >>> It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to 
> >>> create the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image 
> >>> like is so common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, 
> >>> just to cite one example.
> >>> 
> >>> Just cu

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

When I lst used Linux it was ubuntu and I just used orca which is built in 
Had to do some work on making it sound less digital but it worked ok 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Phil Halton
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 9:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

How are people using Linux? But screen reader are we using there?

Sent from my IPhone


> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:22 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Simon:
> 
> I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp 
> process of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's 
> just a log of old code there than hasn't been updated since the 
> Pleistocene.
> 
> 
> It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly 
> pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten 
> or forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted 
> and repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's 
> worth of formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> 
> I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> Sheesh.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
>> HiJanina,
>> 
>> I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
>> partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the 
>> AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I 
>> don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the required 
>> installation files and apple can read from the ISO
>> 
>> But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
>> will let the windows installation work directly from that USB rather 
>> than through the middle man AFS
>> 
>> In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
>> rather simple smallish file
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
>> 
>> I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
>> access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
>> Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
>> 
>> 
>> I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
>> That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
>> the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required 
>> in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
>> lament!
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Simon Fogarty writes:
>>> Hi Janina
>>> 
>>> Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
>>> 
>>> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / 
>>> mac computers in their ISO files.
>>> 
>>> What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
>>> bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
>>> done it starts the full installation,
>>> 
>>> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
>>> the usb.
>>> 
>>> Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
>>> 
>>> Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long 
>>> that process takes.
>>> 
>>> It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to 
>>> create the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like 
>>> is so common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just 
>>> to cite one example.
>>> 
>>> Just curious.
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> Aleeha Dudley writes:
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast that 
>>>> shows you how to install Windows 10 wit

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Janina 

 Waw,
I've never pulled the USB out during bootcamp so haven't struck that.

I will agree though that the process is bloody slow, I always put that down to 
my internet connection 
Possibly you have a corrupt config file somewhere that needs to be removed to 
allow that USB to be seen again by bootcamp.
-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 9 December 2017 5:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

Hi, Simon:

I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp process of 
writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's just a log of old 
code there than hasn't been updated since the Pleistocene.


It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly pulled 
the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or forgiven me. 
DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and repartitioned it on 
Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth of 
formatting, downloading, and copying of files.

I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
Sheesh.

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> HiJanina,
> 
> I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the 
> AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I 
> don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the required 
> installation files and apple can read from the ISO
> 
> But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive 
> will let the windows installation work directly from that USB rather 
> than through the middle man AFS
> 
> In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one 
> rather simple smallish file
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
> access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
> Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> 
> 
> I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
> the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required in 
> the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
> lament!
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Janina
> > 
> >  Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> > 
> > Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / 
> > mac computers in their ISO files.
> > 
> > What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
> > bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
> > done it starts the full installation,
> > 
> > There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
> > the usb.
> > 
> > Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long 
> > that process takes.
> > 
> > It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to 
> > create the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like 
> > is so common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just 
> > to cite one example.
> > 
> > Just curious.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Aleeha Dudley writes:
> > > Hey all,
> > > I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast 
> > > that shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
> > > assistance. 
> > > The URL is: 
> > > https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-o
> > > n-
> > > a-
> > > mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
> > > I hope this helps someone.
> > > Aleeha
> > > 
> > > --
> > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Phil Halton]

How are people using Linux? But screen reader are we using there?

Sent from my IPhone


> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:22 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Simon:
> 
> I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp
> process of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's
> just a log of old code there than hasn't been updated since the
> Pleistocene.
> 
> 
> It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly
> pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or
> forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and
> repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
> But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth
> of formatting, downloading, and copying of files.
> 
> I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
> Sheesh.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
>> HiJanina,
>> 
>> I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
>> partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the AFS, 
>> then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I don't see as 
>> an issue as the ISO file contains the required installation files and apple 
>> can read from the ISO 
>> 
>> But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive will let 
>> the windows installation work directly from that USB rather than through the 
>> middle man AFS 
>> 
>> In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one rather 
>> simple smallish file
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
>> 
>> I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
>> access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
>> Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
>> 
>> 
>> I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
>> That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
>> the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required 
>> in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
>> lament!
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Simon Fogarty writes:
>>> Hi Janina
>>> 
>>> Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
>>> 
>>> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / 
>>> mac computers in their ISO files.
>>> 
>>> What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
>>> bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
>>> done it starts the full installation,
>>> 
>>> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
>>> the usb.
>>> 
>>> Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
>>> 
>>> Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long 
>>> that process takes.
>>> 
>>> It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to 
>>> create the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like 
>>> is so common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just 
>>> to cite one example.
>>> 
>>> Just curious.
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> Aleeha Dudley writes:
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast that 
>>>> shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
>>>> assistance. 
>>>> The URL is: 
>>>> https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-
>>>> a-
>>>> mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
>>>> I hope this helps someone.
>>>> Aleeha
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Simon:

I guess I'm just shocked at how slow and cumbersome the boot camp
process of writing to USB media is. Frankly, I wonder whether there's
just a log of old code there than hasn't been updated since the
Pleistocene.


It's also very unforgiving. On my first try with boot camp I stupidly
pulled the USB without first ejecting, and boot camp hasn't forgotten or
forgiven me. DiskTool is happy with this stick, I've re formatted and
repartitioned it on Linux with no issues, but Boot Camp won't touch it.
But, it won't touch it after tyeing up the Airbook with an hour's worth
of formatting, downloading, and copying of files.

I've googled on this and see I need to go play with scm and nvram.
Sheesh.

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> HiJanina,
> 
> I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new 
> partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the AFS, 
> then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I don't see as 
> an issue as the ISO file contains the required installation files and apple 
> can read from the ISO 
> 
> But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive will let 
> the windows installation work directly from that USB rather than through the 
> middle man AFS 
> 
> In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one rather 
> simple smallish file
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
> access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and 
> Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.
> 
> 
> I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
> That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in 
> the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required in 
> the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this 
> lament!
> 
> Janina
> 
> Simon Fogarty writes:
> > Hi Janina
> > 
> >  Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> > 
> > Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / 
> > mac computers in their ISO files.
> > 
> > What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
> > bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
> > done it starts the full installation,
> > 
> > There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
> > the usb.
> > 
> > Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> > 
> > Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long 
> > that process takes.
> > 
> > It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to 
> > create the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like 
> > is so common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just 
> > to cite one example.
> > 
> > Just curious.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Aleeha Dudley writes:
> > > Hey all,
> > > I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast 
> > > that shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
> > > assistance. 
> > > The URL is: 
> > > https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-
> > > a-
> > > mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
> > > I hope this helps someone.
> > > Aleeha
> > > 
> > > --
> > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > > Visionaries list.
> > > 
> > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> > > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> > > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > > 
> > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> > > mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
> > > is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > > 
> > > 

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

HiJanina,

I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a new partition 
which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process as the AFS, then after the 
partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT format, this I don't see as an issue as the 
ISO file contains the required installation files and apple can read from the 
ISO 

But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive will let the 
windows installation work directly from that USB rather than through the middle 
man AFS 

In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one rather simple 
smallish file

-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue is 
access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft and Apple 
haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.


I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs in the 
bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's required in the 
Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness behind this lament!

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Janina
> 
>  Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> 
> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / 
> mac computers in their ISO files.
> 
> What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple 
> bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once that is 
> done it starts the full installation,
> 
> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
> the usb.
> 
> Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long 
> that process takes.
> 
> It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to create 
> the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like is so 
> common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just to cite 
> one example.
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Aleeha Dudley writes:
> > Hey all,
> > I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast that 
> > shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
> > assistance. 
> > The URL is: 
> > https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-
> > a-
> > mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
> > I hope this helps someone.
> > Aleeha
> > 
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> > mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
> > is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > ---
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "MacVisionaries" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> --
> 
> Janina Sajka, Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>   sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
>   Email:  jan...@rednote.net
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures  http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or

Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the issue
is access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose Microsoft
and Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to afs.


I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware.
That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs
in the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's
required in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness
behind this lament!

Janina

Simon Fogarty writes:
> Hi Janina 
> 
>  Well in simple terms it's called drivers!
> 
> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / 
> mac computers in their ISO files.
> 
> What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple bootcamp 
> device drivers for the installation and then once that is done it starts the 
> full installation,
> 
> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on 
> the usb.
> 
> Once it's created you should have a look at the content.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly
> 
> Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long 
> that process takes.
> 
> It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to create 
> the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like is so 
> common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just to cite 
> one example.
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Aleeha Dudley writes:
> > Hey all,
> > I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast that 
> > shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
> > assistance. 
> > The URL is: 
> > https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-a-
> > mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
> > I hope this helps someone.
> > Aleeha
> > 
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> > mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 
> > Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > ---
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "MacVisionaries" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka, Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>   sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
>   Email:  jan...@rednote.net
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures  http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups

RE: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Janina 

 Well in simple terms it's called drivers!

Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all apple / mac 
computers in their ISO files.

What the installation process does is download to the USB the apple bootcamp 
device drivers for the installation and then once that is done it starts the 
full installation,

There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the drivers on the 
usb.

Once it's created you should have a look at the content.

-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how long that 
process takes.

It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to create 
the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image like is so 
common in multiple environments, including with VMware on Mac, just to cite one 
example.

Just curious.

Janina

Aleeha Dudley writes:
> Hey all,
> I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast that 
> shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
> assistance. 
> The URL is: 
> https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-a-
> mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
> I hope this helps someone.
> Aleeha
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 

Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
Email:  jan...@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how
long that process takes.

It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to
create the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image
like is so common in multiple environments, including with VMware on
Mac, just to cite one example.

Just curious.

Janina

Aleeha Dudley writes:
> Hey all, 
> I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast that 
> shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without sighted 
> assistance. 
> The URL is: 
> https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows-on-a-mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/
> I hope this helps someone.
> Aleeha 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 

Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net
Email:  jan...@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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