date:20090904

Hi,

2009/9/4 Samer Azmy :
> hmmm
>
> there are some Carrier command that you can know the 3G consumption , credit
> reaming and so on
> why a login to carrier web, why dont you use those codes directly, I think
> that is easier

I really didn't know about those codes. Could you please tell me where
I can find more informations? Thanks!

-- 
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application

2009-09-04 Thread Andrew Flegg

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 18:50, Andrea Grandi wrote:
>
> so we only miss Vodafone and at least all italian carriers can be supported.
> More details will follow, once I'm able to setup my development
> environment on my new PC.

I can help with Vodafone in the UK, although navigating their pages
will test your screen scraping processes (he says, doing *lots* of
screen scraping for other things).

Cheers,

Andrew

-- 
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Maemo Community Council chair
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Re: Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application

2009-09-04 Thread b0unc3

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Andrea Grandi  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 2009/9/4 Antonio Di Cello :
> > Hi Andrea,
> > I live & Study in Italy and have a TIM Telecom Italia SIM If I can help
> you let me know
>
> cool :)
>
> so we only miss Vodafone and at least all italian carriers can be
> supported.
>
I have a Vodafone SIM , if it can help.
And of course, I'm from Italy too  :)

> More details will follow, once I'm able to setup my development
> environment on my new PC.
>
> Stay tuned and thanks :)
>
> --
> Andrea Grandi
> email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
> website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
> PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application

Hi,

2009/9/4 Antonio Di Cello :
> Hi Andrea,
> I live & Study in Italy and have a TIM Telecom Italia SIM If I can help you 
> let me know

cool :)

so we only miss Vodafone and at least all italian carriers can be supported.
More details will follow, once I'm able to setup my development
environment on my new PC.

Stay tuned and thanks :)

-- 
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

Hi,

2009/9/4  :
> If some of these composite widgets are so big problem, we can collect
> these examples as widget library.

composed widget are not a problem for ObjectOriented-people :D

anyway, thanks for any example you'll release.

Regards,

-- 
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re:Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application

2009-09-04 Thread Antonio Di Cello

Hi Andrea,
I live & Study in Italy and have a TIM Telecom Italia SIM If I can help you let 
me know

regards - saluti
Antonio


-- Initial Header ---

>From  : maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org
To  : maemo-developers@maemo.org,"maemo users" maemo-us...@maemo.org
Cc  : 
Date  : Fri, 4 Sep 2009 15:38:33 +0200
Subject : Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application







> Hi all,
> 
> since some weeks I'm working to a (very usefull, I think) application.
> I really couldn't release any code or ask for support, due to an NDA,
> and since my question could have revealed still non public
> informations.
> 
> Now I can ask :)
> 
> I'm working on a Python/Qt4 application that can automatically login
> to your carrier website (Vodafone, Orange, Simyo, 3HG ecc...), get
> your remaining credit, data traffic consumed ecc and simply
> display it in a GUI.
> 
> Why this app? Because opening the browser, logging to the $CARRIER
> website, access the customer's area ecc... sometimes can make you wast
> lot of time (and bandwidth). My app only grab the necessary data and
> display them in a dialog window.
> 
> I currently am able to support just two carrier: Italian 3HG and
> Spanish Simyo, since I only have those two SIM/account to test.
> 
> I'm not here to ask you to give me your user/password of your carrier,
> but I would need at least each webpage used in the login process (the
> login page, the webpage after login, the page displaying credit
> remaining ecc).
> 
> I'll give more details on how to get these information to people who
> will be interested to help me.
> 
> Why I'm asking for support? Because more carrier I support, more
> useful the application can be.
> 
> At the moment I haven't thinked about a plugin architecture for my
> app, but I could think about it in the future. For the moment I do
> prefer  to have raw data/webpage and implement the parsing by myself.
> 
> Who want to help me with this application?
> 
> p.s: since both Python and Qt4 (in particular PySide bindings) are
> very experimental at this stage, I really would like to be able to
> test this on a real device, but I haven't :(
> I really hope to have more informations as soon as possible about the
> developer device program
> 
> p.p.s: I'll e able to work more on this application starting from the
> next week. At the moment I can only use my EeePC and, belive me, for
> people with big hands like me it's simply impossible to code :P next
> week I'll be at home (Italy) and I'll grab my new PC  before moving to
> Valencia, so I'll able to work without any problem.
> 
> -- 
> Andrea Grandi
> email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
> website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
> PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: Maemo 5 sdk runnung out of space

2009-09-04 Thread Amit Sethi

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Syren Baran  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> got this problem with the maemo sdk. The free space is not enough, so i
> hung in an additional partion
> ("mount /dev/sdax /scratchbox/users/USER/home/USER/part").

This part is'nt clear.
1) You are mounting a partition in some on some directory in /scratchbox
2) you are compiling some sources in this partition
3) Assuming you are compiling and deploying code compiled at this partition.
The deployment would still happen in
/scratchbox/users//targets/_ which is still
situated on root partition under scratchbox and hence using up space.

So either you can add --prefix parameter while deploying or you could move
whole /scratchbox tree to a different partition.

> However,
> whenever i use up space on the part-directory compiling the same amount
> of space gets used up on the root partition. How come? Is there a
> workaround or an ability to increase the root partition size?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Syren
>
> ___
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>

HTH

-- 
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RE: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread kate.alhola

>From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] 
>On Behalf Of ext Alberto Garcia [agar...@igalia.com]
>Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:38 PM
>To: maemo-developers@maemo.org
>Subject: Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?
>
>On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 06:18:37PM +0300, Kate Alhola wrote:

>> > > I have used Maemo 5 and N900 since early prototypes and i don't
>> > > see lot of important frequently used functionality missing from
>> > > Qt. I admit that some rarely used widgets like earlier mentioned
>> > > date and time picker are missing etc.
>> > Rarely used widgets? Come on, these are used all throughout
>> > the platform. Moreover, even if the time and date pickers
>> > were not so commonly used, their style, user experience, and
>> > base API (through HildonPickerButton, HildonPickerDialog and
>> > HildonTouchSelector[Entry]) are central to the Fremantle UI, and
>> > certainly the most recommended starting point for anyone writing
>> > an application for Fremantle.
>
>> As I said before, we are doing examples how to do many of these
>> things with Qt .
>
>The question is not whether similar widgets can be created using
>Qt. Of course they can.
>
>What people are asking here (among other things) is whether there
>are Qt widgets similar to HildonAppMenu or HildonPickerButton -which
>are absolutely essential for creating Fremantle applications- or
>developers are supposed to write them themselves.

To avoid re-inventing the wheel again we are providing examples how
you can do things with Qt. If some thing can be done with dozen lines of
Qt code, it just matter of taste, should we provide widget or just
example that you can cut-and-paste. The most important thing is that
we have all basic widgets like finger scrollable lists etc so that 
only action needed is to collect them together.  

If some of these composite widgets are so big problem, we can collect 
these examples as widget library. 

Kate

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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

Kate Alhola wrote:
> As I said before, we are doing examples how to do many of
> these things with Qt .
> 
> I can put this on the list to make example.
> 
> At the moment i just wrote example how to make desktop applets
> and desktop applets with Webkit .
> 
> More is coming ...

Cool - what's the gitorious url ;)

We have:
  http://gitorious.org/qt-maemo

So:
  http://gitorious.org/qt-maemo/hildon-widgets sounds good

Antonio ... want to set it up? (I can't)

David

-- 
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Alberto Garcia

On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 06:18:37PM +0300, Kate Alhola wrote:

> > > I have used Maemo 5 and N900 since early prototypes and i don't
> > > see lot of important frequently used functionality missing from
> > > Qt. I admit that some rarely used widgets like earlier mentioned
> > > date and time picker are missing etc.
> > Rarely used widgets? Come on, these are used all throughout
> > the platform. Moreover, even if the time and date pickers
> > were not so commonly used, their style, user experience, and
> > base API (through HildonPickerButton, HildonPickerDialog and
> > HildonTouchSelector[Entry]) are central to the Fremantle UI, and
> > certainly the most recommended starting point for anyone writing
> > an application for Fremantle.

> As I said before, we are doing examples how to do many of these
> things with Qt .

The question is not whether similar widgets can be created using
Qt. Of course they can.

What people are asking here (among other things) is whether there
are Qt widgets similar to HildonAppMenu or HildonPickerButton -which
are absolutely essential for creating Fremantle applications- or
developers are supposed to write them themselves.

Berto
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Claudio Saavedra

El vie, 04-09-2009 a las 15:48 +0100, David Greaves escribió:
> 
> 
> > See
> https://projects.maemo.org/svn/af/projects/hildon-widgets/trunk/src/ for 
> details of the hildon widgets.
> Is that the maemo.org credentials? I can't get access :(
> 

The hildon toolkit was moved long time ago to git.maemo.org

  https://git.maemo.org/projects/hildon/gitweb?p=hildon;a=summary

> 
> Is it related to this bug:
>   https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4625
> 
> We have these figures from the maemomm project:
>   http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/figures/
> 

Dave Neary had volunteered for that, haven't seen any progress on it.

Claudio


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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Claudio Saavedra

El vie, 04-09-2009 a las 17:37 +0300, Kate Alhola escribió:
> 
> I have used Maemo 5 and N900 since early prototypes  and
> i don't see lot of important frequently used functionality
> missing from Qt. I admit that some rarely used widgets like
> earlier mentioned date and time picker are missing etc.

Rarely used widgets? Come on, these are used all throughout the
platform. Moreover, even if the time and date pickers were not so
commonly used, their style, user experience, and base API (through
HildonPickerButton, HildonPickerDialog and HildonTouchSelector[Entry])
are central to the Fremantle UI, and certainly the most recommended
starting point for anyone writing an application for Fremantle.

Claudio


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Re: Developer device program

2009-09-04 Thread tz

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Quim Gil wrote:

> Hi, there is going to be an N900 device program and the terms will be
> announced soon.
>
> If you are a developer the best thing you can do is push your software
> through the maemo.org Extras process. If you are not a developer just
> keep whatever you were doing.  :)

I've done the extras for Diablo but haven't for Fremantle since I
really need some specific hardware features which aren't quite there
in emulation (the underlying code will work anywhere, but the
interesting problems will only show up on the target).

I hope it isn't a paradox that I can only get the hardware by having
apps, but can only really test the apps by having hardware.
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Re: DBus Activation for Qt Application

2009-09-04 Thread daniel wilms

Hi,

there is a long thread  [1] (a bit outdated though), which could help 
you perhaps. But for which platform are you developing?!?

[1] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=15194

Cheers Daniel

ext Mani N C wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have created a Text file editor and i have registered it to text 
> mime type. When i open a text file from file browser, only the 
> application gets invoked but it doesn't open the file.
> I trying to trace mime_open message using dbus monitor but when i 
> click text file i dont get any DBus message. My Application takes file 
> name as command line argument.
> On doing google, I found out registering to mime_open callback serve 
> the purpose in GTK. How do we do that for Qt application ?
>
> Any help / pointers  on this issue ?
>
> Thank you
>
> Mani

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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Piñeiro

From: Andre Klapper 

> Am Freitag, den 04.09.2009, 13:47 +0200 schrieb ext-mox.so...@nokia.com:
> > See
> > https://projects.maemo.org/svn/af/projects/hildon-widgets/trunk/src/
> > for details of the hildon widgets.
> 
> Not accessible.

As Claudio just said, hildon development was moved to a public
repository (git.maemo.org) some months ago:

  https://git.maemo.org/projects/hildon/gitweb?p=hildon;a=summary

> Keep in mind that Nokia is a paranoid company,

In fact the previous projects.maemo.org link has just a old copy of
hildon inside the paranoid-Nokia-repositories. The git one is just
updated.

>hence there is only some
> limited info available for public at
> http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets and
> http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Using_Fremantle_Widgets . ;-))

===
API (apinhe...@igalia.com)
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RE: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Andre Klapper

Am Freitag, den 04.09.2009, 13:47 +0200 schrieb ext-mox.so...@nokia.com:
> See
> https://projects.maemo.org/svn/af/projects/hildon-widgets/trunk/src/
> for details of the hildon widgets.

Not accessible.
Keep in mind that Nokia is a paranoid company, hence there is only some
limited info available for public at
http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets and
http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Using_Fremantle_Widgets . ;-))

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)

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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?


ext Claudio Saavedra wrote:

El vie, 04-09-2009 a las 17:37 +0300, Kate Alhola escribió:
  

I have used Maemo 5 and N900 since early prototypes  and
i don't see lot of important frequently used functionality
missing from Qt. I admit that some rarely used widgets like
earlier mentioned date and time picker are missing etc.



Rarely used widgets? Come on, these are used all throughout the
platform. Moreover, even if the time and date pickers were not so
commonly used, their style, user experience, and base API (through
HildonPickerButton, HildonPickerDialog and HildonTouchSelector[Entry])
are central to the Fremantle UI, and certainly the most recommended
starting point for anyone writing an application for Fremantle.
  

As I said before, we are doing examples how to do many of
these things with Qt .

I can put this on the list to make example.

At the moment i just wrote example how to make desktop applets
and desktop applets with Webkit .

More is coming ...

Kate
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

ext-mox.so...@nokia.com wrote:
> Since QT is not just a language binding to gtk/hildon, but rather an 
> independent toolkit in it's own right...
> 
> Is there equivalent and finger sized QT widget for the following hildon 
> widgets?
> - hildon banner
> - hildon confirmation note
> - hildon dialog (with buttons on the bottom right side in landscape)
> - hildon app menu (i.e. two column finger sized view menu)
> - hildon time picker (not the legacy one)
> - hildon date picker (not the legacy one)
> - hildon picker button
> - hildon touch selector
> - hildon stackable window
> - hildon entry (including the possibility for placeholder text)
> - hildon edit toolbar (as used in the edit mode view)

Not AFAIK, but one reason I asked for a gallery of hildon widgets back at the
Danish weekend event was so we (the community) could create a similar set of
widgets for Qt (where needed)

> See https://projects.maemo.org/svn/af/projects/hildon-widgets/trunk/src/ for 
> details of the hildon widgets.
Is that the maemo.org credentials? I can't get access :(

Is it related to this bug:
  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4625

We have these figures from the maemomm project:
  http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/figures/

David

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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

ext Alberto Garcia wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 03:00:05PM +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
>
>   
>> One small example that's been mentioned already in this thread: How
>> do we create a HildonAppMenu with Qt? How do we create a
>> HildonTouchSelector, and/or any of the specific selectors for time
>> or dates, etc. I believe the answer is that we can't.
>>
>> The Maemo Qt developers have not yet even decided whether they will
>> add API to Qt for Maemo-specific UI features, let alone implemented
>> it. It's OK to like Qt, but there's no need to avoid the actual
>> problems faced by actual developers.
>> 
>
> That is very important, since some of those widgets are completely
> essential for Maemo 5.
>
> If people take a look at the N900 videos that have been uploaded
> to YouTube lately and see how the applications look and feel, it's
> obvious that it's not possible to obtain a similar result without Qt
> equivalents for these new widgets.
>
>   
Let's get some amount bag to roots. Qt is not GTK+, Qt has it's own
widgets but adopts GTK style.  Buttons etc looks exactly same
Lot's of  Maemo 5 user experience like  task switching is done
by window manager.  Qt has kinetic scroll etc.

I have used Maemo 5 and N900 since early prototypes  and
i don't see lot of important frequently used functionality
missing from Qt. I admit that some rarely used widgets like
earlier mentioned date and time picker are missing etc.

We are working to do more examples how to do certain
actions with Qt.

Some features like compositor bypass etc non standard X11
window manager extensions require few line of code in application
to activate these features.

Kate
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DBus Activation for Qt Application

2009-09-04 Thread Mani N C

Hi,

I have created a Text file editor and i have registered it to text mime
type. When i open a text file from file browser, only the application gets
invoked but it doesn't open the file.
I trying to trace mime_open message using dbus monitor but when i click text
file i dont get any DBus message. My Application takes file name as command
line argument.
On doing google, I found out registering to mime_open callback serve the
purpose in GTK. How do we do that for Qt application ?

Any help / pointers  on this issue ?

Thank you

Mani
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Re: The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

2009-09-04 Thread Dave Neary

Hi David,

Perhaps it's best to explain the thinking behind the current status of
the presentation (which is still listed as "Wait & see", not rejected)
to frame the discussion:

David Greaves wrote:
> I proposed a talk at the summit on DVCS and git and it has not been accepted 
> by
> the talk selection group. This isn't a complaint  :) . . . . .   however I
> do worry that it might be a mistake... what do you think?

The comments on the wiki page are:

> DVCS? git? - How does that work then?
> 
> I'm going to suggest that this talk be combined with David's other
> talk (An Alternative to Autobuilder/Scratchbox) rather than be a
> separate entity. -- baloo 13:32, 26 August 2009
> I agree with Jamie's suggestion. -- Valério Valério 17:48, 26 August
2009
> Me too. No to this as stand-alone. --Dave Neary 19:33, 31 August 2009

So we do like the idea of you presenting DVCS tools, but feel that the
best place for this is part of a "tools" presentation - which you're
already accepted for ("alternative to autouilder/scratchbox") - you
could present Suse's Open Build System *and* DVCS fundamentals in one
presentation slot.

Alternatively, there is another proposal about DVCS (specifically git &
gitorious) and from discussions we had yesterday, we seem to be leaning
towards accepting one of the two presentations in its own right.

> I personally thing think that as a development community with git on garage 
> and
> gitorious.org we should be making efforts to understand how best to use DVCS
> processes to collaborate.

> However we also have Johan Sørensen (cc'd as I don't think he's on-list) who
> wrote Gitorious.org - I think having him speak on using git and gitorious 
> would
> be an opportunity that we shouldn't miss.

See comments above. I suspect, given demand, that there will be one DVCS
presentation, unless my two colleagues on the content committee are
against it.

Thanks!
Dave.

-- 
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dne...@maemo.org
Jabber: bo...@jabber.org

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Re: The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

2009-09-04 Thread Valerio Valerio

Hello,

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Graham Cobb

> wrote:

> On Friday 04 September 2009 13:46:01 Jamie Bennett wrote:
> > But does this admiral goal translate well to a presentation or something
> > else?
> >
> > I see this not as a presentation, but more of a collaborative effort
> > with like-minded individuals hence I suggest a BOF. We have a lot of
> > physical space at the Summit. I'm sure we can get room for a BOF session
> > on DVCS practices with the results presented in a lightening talk the
> > next day and reported on the wiki. How does that sound?
>
> A BOF seems more appropriate to me.  I like that suggestion (although it is
> bound to clash with something else!).
>

Note that we do have a room for special activities[1] (almost booked for
Saturday).

About the talk as I said in the wiki, my opinions goes in line with Jamie's,
an LT+BoF session sounds like a good plane to me :) .

[1] - http://tinyurl.com/n5u8k5*

*David, thanks for raise this here.

Best regards,

-- 
Valério Valério

http://www.valeriovalerio.org

>
> Graham
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Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application

Hi all,

since some weeks I'm working to a (very usefull, I think) application.
I really couldn't release any code or ask for support, due to an NDA,
and since my question could have revealed still non public
informations.

Now I can ask :)

I'm working on a Python/Qt4 application that can automatically login
to your carrier website (Vodafone, Orange, Simyo, 3HG ecc...), get
your remaining credit, data traffic consumed ecc and simply
display it in a GUI.

Why this app? Because opening the browser, logging to the $CARRIER
website, access the customer's area ecc... sometimes can make you wast
lot of time (and bandwidth). My app only grab the necessary data and
display them in a dialog window.

I currently am able to support just two carrier: Italian 3HG and
Spanish Simyo, since I only have those two SIM/account to test.

I'm not here to ask you to give me your user/password of your carrier,
but I would need at least each webpage used in the login process (the
login page, the webpage after login, the page displaying credit
remaining ecc).

I'll give more details on how to get these information to people who
will be interested to help me.

Why I'm asking for support? Because more carrier I support, more
useful the application can be.

At the moment I haven't thinked about a plugin architecture for my
app, but I could think about it in the future. For the moment I do
prefer  to have raw data/webpage and implement the parsing by myself.

Who want to help me with this application?

p.s: since both Python and Qt4 (in particular PySide bindings) are
very experimental at this stage, I really would like to be able to
test this on a real device, but I haven't :(
I really hope to have more informations as soon as possible about the
developer device program

p.p.s: I'll e able to work more on this application starting from the
next week. At the moment I can only use my EeePC and, belive me, for
people with big hands like me it's simply impossible to code :P next
week I'll be at home (Italy) and I'll grab my new PC  before moving to
Valencia, so I'll able to work without any problem.

-- 
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Alberto Garcia

On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 03:00:05PM +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:

> One small example that's been mentioned already in this thread: How
> do we create a HildonAppMenu with Qt? How do we create a
> HildonTouchSelector, and/or any of the specific selectors for time
> or dates, etc. I believe the answer is that we can't.
> 
> The Maemo Qt developers have not yet even decided whether they will
> add API to Qt for Maemo-specific UI features, let alone implemented
> it. It's OK to like Qt, but there's no need to avoid the actual
> problems faced by actual developers.

That is very important, since some of those widgets are completely
essential for Maemo 5.

If people take a look at the N900 videos that have been uploaded
to YouTube lately and see how the applications look and feel, it's
obvious that it's not possible to obtain a similar result without Qt
equivalents for these new widgets.

Berto
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Re: The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

2009-09-04 Thread Graham Cobb

On Friday 04 September 2009 13:46:01 Jamie Bennett wrote:
> But does this admiral goal translate well to a presentation or something
> else?
>
> I see this not as a presentation, but more of a collaborative effort
> with like-minded individuals hence I suggest a BOF. We have a lot of
> physical space at the Summit. I'm sure we can get room for a BOF session
> on DVCS practices with the results presented in a lightening talk the
> next day and reported on the wiki. How does that sound?

A BOF seems more appropriate to me.  I like that suggestion (although it is 
bound to clash with something else!).

Graham
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Re: The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

First off, I hope this didn't come across as insisting or complaining - I tried
to express that. Maybe 'mistake' was wrong - I just carried on writing :)

As much as anything I wanted to open discussions as to how important people felt
DVCS is. For me it's crucial for Mer and Qt - maybe not so much for others?

Jamie Bennett wrote:
> Please see my comments in-line below.
> 
> On Fri, 2009-09-04 at 12:57 +0100, David Greaves wrote:
>> I proposed a talk at the summit on DVCS and git and it has not been accepted 
>> by
>> the talk selection group. This isn't a complaint  :) . . . . .   however 
>> I
>> do worry that it might be a mistake... what do you think?
> 
> Its good to bring any doubts about the selection process out to a wider
> audience, thanks. I'll try to explain why _I_ voted a no (although it
> wasn't a definite no, see below).
> 
> You have another talk, "An Alternative to Autobuilder/Scratchbox" which
> would be a talk, in your own words, "about the processes around Mer
> builds, access controls, managing integration with our DVCS (git),
> acceleration tricks and generally how to make good use of things you
> find lying about on the web."
> 
> Now I see this as overlapping somewhat with the DVCS talk and my
> suggestion was to combine the two to give a higher level but more
> complete picture of development with the current tools we have.

Yes, I'll certainly do that.


> But does this admiral goal translate well to a presentation or something
> else?
> 
> I see this not as a presentation, but more of a collaborative effort
> with like-minded individuals hence I suggest a BOF. We have a lot of
> physical space at the Summit. I'm sure we can get room for a BOF session
> on DVCS practices with the results presented in a lightening talk the
> next day and reported on the wiki. How does that sound?

I kinda don't know how things are being set out - that sounds really good though
- maybe we can do a lightning talks beforehand to set the scene too (and
encourage attendance)?

Still interested in developer comments about DVCS processes too - what areas (if
any!) are of interest - if there's no interest then maybe it's not worth
worrying about.

David

-- 
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Re: The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

Graham Cobb wrote:
>However, time is limited and if it has to be bumped for other 
> good sessions then so be it.

Fully agree.

My intention was to raise it and sound out the developers.
see Jamie's comments too.

David


-- 
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Murray Cumming

On Fri, 2009-09-04 at 14:33 +0300, Kate Alhola wrote:
> I just don't see any reason why you can't 
> make least as good  UI design with Qt than you can
> do with GTK+/Hildon.

One small example that's been mentioned already in this thread: How do
we create a HildonAppMenu with Qt? How do we create a
HildonTouchSelector, and/or any of the specific selectors for time or
dates, etc. I believe the answer is that we can't.

The Maemo Qt developers have not yet even decided whether they will add
API to Qt for Maemo-specific UI features, let alone implemented it. It's
OK to like Qt, but there's no need to avoid the actual problems faced by
actual developers.

I guess you could hack something together that looked and felt similar
to the standard hildon widgets, but that's hardly a development
platform.

Of course this doesn't suggest that things will be much better for GTK+
when a Qt-based Maemo API is the primary platform.

-- 
murr...@murrayc.com
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com

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Maemo 5 sdk runnung out of space

2009-09-04 Thread Syren Baran

Hi all,

got this problem with the maemo sdk. The free space is not enough, so i
hung in an additional partion
("mount /dev/sdax /scratchbox/users/USER/home/USER/part"). However,
whenever i use up space on the part-directory compiling the same amount
of space gets used up on the root partition. How come? Is there a
workaround or an ability to increase the root partition size?

Thanks in advance,
Syren

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Re: The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

2009-09-04 Thread Jamie Bennett

Please see my comments in-line below.

On Fri, 2009-09-04 at 12:57 +0100, David Greaves wrote:
> I proposed a talk at the summit on DVCS and git and it has not been accepted 
> by
> the talk selection group. This isn't a complaint  :) . . . . .   however I
> do worry that it might be a mistake... what do you think?

Its good to bring any doubts about the selection process out to a wider
audience, thanks. I'll try to explain why _I_ voted a no (although it
wasn't a definite no, see below).

You have another talk, "An Alternative to Autobuilder/Scratchbox" which
would be a talk, in your own words, "about the processes around Mer
builds, access controls, managing integration with our DVCS (git),
acceleration tricks and generally how to make good use of things you
find lying about on the web."

Now I see this as overlapping somewhat with the DVCS talk and my
suggestion was to combine the two to give a higher level but more
complete picture of development with the current tools we have.

> I personally thing think that as a development community with git on garage 
> and
> gitorious.org we should be making efforts to understand how best to use DVCS
> processes to collaborate.

Agreed, see below.

> Maybe it's just me but I see a lot of devs who are new to DVCS and very few
> community guidelines on how to use DVCS. Qt uses it but, as we've recently 
> been
> discussing, it could be going better.
> 
> Frankly I don't care which 'good practice' I use - I can go out and find lots 
> of
> them. But it strikes me that as a community we should at least say "hey, 
> quite a
> few of us are using this approach - if you don't have any strong preferences
> then you can use it too"

But does this admiral goal translate well to a presentation or something
else?

I see this not as a presentation, but more of a collaborative effort
with like-minded individuals hence I suggest a BOF. We have a lot of
physical space at the Summit. I'm sure we can get room for a BOF session
on DVCS practices with the results presented in a lightening talk the
next day and reported on the wiki. How does that sound?

> David

Regards,
Jamie.
--
http://www.linuxuk.org

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Re: The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

2009-09-04 Thread Graham Cobb

On Friday 04 September 2009 12:57:56 David Greaves wrote:
> I proposed a talk at the summit on DVCS and git and it has not been
> accepted by the talk selection group. This isn't a complaint  :) . . .
> . .   however I do worry that it might be a mistake... what do you think?

[...lots of good stuff snipped...]

I think it is an interesting topic, although whether it should be a 
presentation or a BOF working session I don't know (depends on whether there 
is a clear view to communicate or something the development community needs 
to discuss).  However, time is limited and if it has to be bumped for other 
good sessions then so be it.

If there isn't time for a session at the Summit then it would be worth 
thinking about alternative ways to get together, after the summit, to 
communicate/discuss.  Maybe a Skype conf call of interested parties?  Or a 
webinar or podcast followed by IRC?

Graham
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The Summit: Git/Gitorious - Untracked talks: consider adding them...

Hi all

I'm posting this on planet.maemo.org as well as here - I think the dev-list is
the real target :)

I proposed a talk at the summit on DVCS and git and it has not been accepted by
the talk selection group. This isn't a complaint  :) . . . . .   however I
do worry that it might be a mistake... what do you think?

This message is just to solicit opinions and hopefully will validate their
decision. If it causes a rethink then that's fine too.

Heh - I could do without the extra work involved!!

I personally thing think that as a development community with git on garage and
gitorious.org we should be making efforts to understand how best to use DVCS
processes to collaborate.

Maybe it's just me but I see a lot of devs who are new to DVCS and very few
community guidelines on how to use DVCS. Qt uses it but, as we've recently been
discussing, it could be going better.

Frankly I don't care which 'good practice' I use - I can go out and find lots of
them. But it strikes me that as a community we should at least say "hey, quite a
few of us are using this approach - if you don't have any strong preferences
then you can use it too"

So why now?

Well, real soon now (I hope) we're going to have 3 different versions to 
support.

* Fremantle
* Diablo
* Mer

They'll each have different capabilities and some apps just won't care - they'll
support Fremantle or Diablo and ignore the others. That's fine :)

(Although being open-source you might find patches being sent in to add support
for another flavour - how will you cope?)

Other apps will decide to embrace that diversity from the start.

So how do we (you) manage the build-variations (ie debian/* may well vary for
each of them. Maybe ./configure too)? Do we use branches? How?

Now how do we manage adding features and back-porting simple bug fixes to the
stable release whilst you work on that big new feature set.

How are contributions and teams handled?

It sounds horrendous - and it can be!

But actually this is all fairly simple stuff with DVCS once you have it
explained and once you grok it - but it's bloody hard to figure out from scratch
and it's also very unlikely that you'll arrive at the same solution as another 
team.

Which means if you're a member of multiple teams you might find they each have
different approaches - "whoo hoo!" - not!

So anyway... I thought a talk would be a good idea.

Now at the time no-one had volunteered so I did - some of you may have noticed
my name at the bottom of

  http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git.html

Now you may think that qualifies me to offer this talk - you'd be wrong ;)

I was hanging around the kernel lists at the time, got interested and acted as
an 'editor' pulling together words of wisdom. Since then I've used git a little
but it wasn't until we started to need it in Mer that I reviewed the
state-of-play and tried to pull in other people's good ideas - so that's what
I'd use as a base.

However we also have Johan Sørensen (cc'd as I don't think he's on-list) who
wrote Gitorious.org - I think having him speak on using git and gitorious would
be an opportunity that we shouldn't miss.

Equally there must be developers in Nokia/Trolltech who could say "we know this
stuff and this is how we think you might want to do it."

So... speak now...

David

PS If anyone fancies collaborating and doing a multi-person presentation then
I'm up for it.

-- 
"Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once..."
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RE: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread ext-mox.soini


>From: Alhola Kate (Nokia-FNDC/Tampere) 
>
>> So while _technically_ QT apps work on Fremantle, I'd like 
>to hear and 
>> see whether it is really possible to provide a true Maemo 5 user 
>> experience when using QT as the toolkit.
>Toolkit, either GTK or Qt can't fix the UI design. If you 
>don't make finger friendly design, tool kit can't make your 
>application to do it.  I just don't see any reason why you 
>can't make least as good  UI design with Qt than you can do 
>with GTK+/Hildon. As addition of these traditional widgets, in 
>Qt you also get QGraphicsview and animation framework that 
>allows you to do similar effects in application that are 
>provided by Clutter.

Ok, let me be more specific then.

Since QT is not just a language binding to gtk/hildon, but rather an 
independent toolkit in it's own right...

Is there equivalent and finger sized QT widget for the following hildon widgets?
- hildon banner
- hildon confirmation note
- hildon dialog (with buttons on the bottom right side in landscape)
- hildon app menu (i.e. two column finger sized view menu)
- hildon time picker (not the legacy one)
- hildon date picker (not the legacy one)
- hildon picker button
- hildon touch selector
- hildon stackable window
- hildon entry (including the possibility for placeholder text)
- hildon edit toolbar (as used in the edit mode view)

See https://projects.maemo.org/svn/af/projects/hildon-widgets/trunk/src/ for 
details of the hildon widgets.

BR,

 Mox
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Andrew Flegg

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:25, Attila Csipa wrote:
> On Friday 04 September 2009 13:16:32 ext-mox.so...@nokia.com wrote:
>> There are extremely few QT applications to try out in Maemo 5. And so far,
>> I haven't seen one that would really "feel" like true Maemo 5 application.
>>
>
> I don't think anyone was talking about that. The question was whether it makes
> any difference (UI-wise) if you use 'regular' GTK/Hildon or Qt. Maemo 4 to 5
> migration is a related, but markedly different issue. The framework can
> restyle some UI elements or default dialogs, but it cannot change a hardcoded
> layout or general workflow (nor is it supposed to).

Putting aside the issue of whether stuff happens automatically or
manually; is it possible to show some screenshots of Qt apps on Maemo
5 looking like a Maemo 5 app, particularly in the areas of:

  * Dialogue boxes (at bottom, buttons at right)
  * Kinetic scrolling/panneable areas
  * Finger-friendly app menus

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

-- 
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

Soini Mox (EXT-Movial/Helsinki) wrote:
>
> ext Andrea Grandi wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2009/9/4 Kate Alhola :
>>   
>>> Current version is 4.5.2, soon 4.5.3  .  Qt is already in Fremantle
>>> repository,
>>> so installing Qt applications to N900 is already totally transparent to 
>>> end
>>> user
>>> because application installer picks up needed dependencies.
>>> And also, there are  Qt core libraries already in flash.
>>> 
>>
>> if I write a graphical (with UI) application in Qt, does it look much
>> different from another one written using Hildon? What are the biggest
>> differences or not yet supported UI features?
>>   
> It will kook same than Hildon. We have as example Hildon style and
> Hildon imput method there.
>  
>
> With all due respect, I would like to see more "beef" to this claim. 
> For example in terms of links to apps, or just screenshots.
>  
> There are extremely few QT applications to try out in Maemo 5. And so 
> far, I haven't seen one that would really "feel" like true Maemo 5 
> application.
>  
> ...
>  
> As a parallel, a standard Gnome/GTK application, when directly ported 
> (minimal effort) to Maemo 5, the UI of the application will feel more 
> like Maemo 4 (i.e. N810 and friends).
>  
> It takes much more effort to make that application really Maemo 5 - 
> finger usable, with finger sized buttons, hildon picker buttons, edit 
> mode views, pannable dialogs etc.
Qt takes exactly same styles that are for Maemo5 GTK applications 
including button sizes etc,
There is kinetic finger scroll.

>
> Compare for example screenshots of Modest email client between Maemo 4 
> and Maemo 5, to get an idea of the differences:
> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Redesigning_From_Maemo_4_to_Maemo_5
>  
> Technically, you are able to run the Maemo 4 Modest UI on Maemo 5 too 
> (maybe just a recompilation). However, it really does not *feel* like 
> Maemo 5 application.
>  
> So while _technically_ QT apps work on Fremantle, I'd like to hear and 
> see whether it is really possible to provide a true Maemo 5 user 
> experience when using QT as the toolkit.
Toolkit, either GTK or Qt can't fix the UI design. If you don't make 
finger friendly design, tool kit can't make
your application to do it.  I just don't see any reason why you can't 
make least as good  UI design with Qt than you can
do with GTK+/Hildon. As addition of these traditional widgets, in Qt you 
also get QGraphicsview and
animation framework that allows you to do similar effects in application 
that are provided by Clutter.

Kate
>  
> BR,
>  
>  Mox
>  
>  

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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread Attila Csipa

On Friday 04 September 2009 13:16:32 ext-mox.so...@nokia.com wrote:
> There are extremely few QT applications to try out in Maemo 5. And so far,
> I haven't seen one that would really "feel" like true Maemo 5 application.
>
> ...
>
> As a parallel, a standard Gnome/GTK application, when directly ported
> (minimal effort) to Maemo 5, the UI of the application will feel more like
> Maemo 4 (i.e. N810 and friends).

I don't think anyone was talking about that. The question was whether it makes 
any difference (UI-wise) if you use 'regular' GTK/Hildon or Qt. Maemo 4 to 5 
migration is a related, but markedly different issue. The framework can 
restyle some UI elements or default dialogs, but it cannot change a hardcoded 
layout or general workflow (nor is it supposed to).
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RE: New apps for fremantle with Qt?

2009-09-04 Thread ext-mox.soini

ext Andrea Grandi wrote:

Hi,

2009/9/4 Kate Alhola :

Current version is 4.5.2, soon 4.5.3 . Qt is already in Fremantle
repository,
so installing Qt applications to N900 is already totally transparent to end
user
because application installer picks up needed dependencies.
And also, there are Qt core libraries already in flash.

if I write a graphical (with UI) application in Qt, does it look much
different from another one written using Hildon? What are the biggest
differences or not yet supported UI features?

It will kook same than Hildon. We have as example Hildon style and Hildon imput
method there.

With all due respect, I would like to see more "beef" to this claim. For
example in terms of links to apps, or just screenshots.

There are extremely few QT applications to try out in Maemo 5. And so far, I
haven't seen one that would really "feel" like true Maemo 5 application.

...

As a parallel, a standard Gnome/GTK application, when directly ported (minimal
effort) to Maemo 5, the UI of the application will feel more like Maemo 4 (i.e.
N810 and friends).

It takes much more effort to make that application really Maemo 5 - finger
usable, with finger sized buttons, hildon picker buttons, edit mode views,
pannable dialogs etc.

Compare for example screenshots of Modest email client between Maemo 4 and
Maemo 5, to get an idea of the differences:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Redesigning_From_Maemo_4_to_Maemo_5

Technically, you are able to run the Maemo 4 Modest UI on Maemo 5 too (maybe
just a recompilation). However, it really does not *feel* like Maemo 5
application.

...

So while _technically_ QT apps work on Fremantle, I'd like to hear and see
whether it is really possible to provide a true Maemo 5 user experience when
using QT as the toolkit.

BR,

Mox

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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?


ext Klaus Rotter wrote:

Kate Alhola wrote:
  

ext Klaus Rotter wrote:


Hi there!

Since Maemo 6 will be based upon Qt, is it reasonable to start new 
projects (for fremantle and beyond) with Qt?
  
  

Yes, it is reasonable to start with Qt. We have had maemo qt out
in qt4.garage.maemo.org about year and fremantle version about half of 
year. We will have much more to tell in maemo summit .

Upgrade path to Harmatan is much more easier if you are already using Qt.



Since IMHO it may be at least one year to betas of Harmatan, do you 
expect huge differences between the Qt 4.4 now (for Maemo) and the Qt 
then? Why won't Nokia ship the qt 4.4 libs with the N9xx device?

This would make the switchover more easier.
  
Current version is 4.5.2, soon 4.5.3  .  Qt is already in Fremantle 
repository,
so installing Qt applications to N900 is already totally transparent to 
end user

because application installer picks up needed dependencies.
And also, there are  Qt core libraries already in flash.

All functionality that we have in 4.5 will be in Harmatan but of cource 
there

will be once again much of new features. As example, animation framework is
now separate component but will be standard part in Harmatan. There will
be pre-releases about these new features lot before actual product launch.

Kate



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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?


ext Andrea Grandi wrote:

Hi,

2009/9/4 Kate Alhola :
  

Current version is 4.5.2, soon 4.5.3  .  Qt is already in Fremantle
repository,
so installing Qt applications to N900 is already totally transparent to end
user
because application installer picks up needed dependencies.
And also, there are  Qt core libraries already in flash.



if I write a graphical (with UI) application in Qt, does it look much
different from another one written using Hildon? What are the biggest
differences or not yet supported UI features?
  
It will kook same than Hildon. We have as example Hildon style and 
Hildon imput method there.


Kate

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Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?