Re: Why touch event go through my window
On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 04:09 +0100, ext Evan JIANG wrote: Thank you for your reply. Since I'm on travel now, I may could only try it some days later. I guess it's cause by the browser and hildon-desktop called some matchbox API directly, that maybe some MB APIs could hide the window and the window can not be shown again with GTK APIs. No, there are no Matchbox(2) APIs used by applications. (The API is not even available at all because the libmatchbox2 library is statically linked to hildon-desktop, so no application is able to dynamically link to it.) My guess about your ghost window is that the X window stacking does not match what the compositor shows on the screen. So it could be a bug in hildon-desktop, or it could be some unsupported window type (that's why I asked for xprop and xwininfo outputs). I found everything works well with FireFox borwser for Maemo. That is interesting... Have you tried the N900 browser in fullscreen mode, does it work then? Here I could give more details about the window lifecycle. There's a scim-gtk-panel daemon which will auto start when system startup. When the daemon starts, it will create a winodw, and hide it immediately. Everytime when the input method need to show the input window, it will send command to the daemon to show the input window and move it to the front. When the inputing is done and edit field loses the focus, the input window will be hidden by calling gtk_widget_hide This should work if the window is supported by the window manager (to see that I need the xprop xwininfo outputs or a test program from you). This design works all right on most of PC Desktop Linux. As I said, it also works well for most applications on Maemo, except browser. In the Browser application, when the input window is showing, and I click on other places to close the window, the window won't show again with gtk_widget_show_all. My current workaround is, when the input window need to be hidden, I will destroy the window, and next time when it need to be shown, I will create the window again. With this workaround, it works just OK now. But, the performance is much worse than before, since creating and destroying the window take longer time. This workaround should not be necessary. We have many such windows, for example the Select Connection dialog that you use to select connection to the Internet. It sounds like the window type is confusing to the window manager and it does not behave right in this case. -Kimmo Best regards, Evan JIANG 2010/2/12 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com: On Sat, 2010-02-06 at 16:53 +0100, ext Evan JIANG wrote: Hi all, I'm developing an input method for N900. The main window is not full screen, and looks like this: http://www.evan129.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/20091225_d151774f028f00e741aecdywcKr7OnKn.png It works well in most of times. But in browser application, it's a bit strange. As you can see, there are some buttons in the panel, users can press the buttons to choose the words. In browser application, when users pressed the button, the event will go through my window to the browser. Then because of the press location is not in the same edit field, the edit field will lose the focus. I may not explained it clearly. Let me give an easier understanding example. If the window is in the top of screen, covered the title bar, then when I press the button on the left-top corner, it will show the application switch window. That means, the press event go through my window, and handled by the app swithcer button. What's the output of these commands for your window: xprop -id your window xwininfo -id your window These command line tools can be found from x11-utils package. -Kimmo These are the only 2 places I found that could receive my press event. But in all other places, I didn't find this happening. My panel is created with gtk_window_new (GTK_WINDOW_POPUP); And the buttons are created by gtk_button_new();. I use g_signal_connect to receive the clicked event or button-press-event event. Does anyone have any idea about that? Best regards, Evan JIANG ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Bad Drawable when running hellogl_es2 example
On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 11:34 +0100, ext Charles Han wrote: Hi all, I am having issue when running the example hellogl_es2 from QT. The program segment fault on theN900 and showing this error message: X Error: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window Parameter) 9 Extension: 134 (unknown extension) Minor opcode: 4 (unknow request) Resource id: 0x3e9 It's an opengl es 2 example. any help? Where is the source code? -Kimmo Thanks Charles ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
MeeGo
Intel and Nokia collaboration: http://meego.com/ Jeremiah ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Developing virtual keyboard plugin for Maemo 5
Hello, I took sample virtual keyboard plug-in source from following mail archive, http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-comm...@maemo.org/msg09120.html compiled and verified hildon onehand keyboard plug-in. So I think there is latest virtual keyboard plug-in example sources which are not committed to gitorious.orghttp://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-input-method-plugins-exampleyet. Thanks for all the replies. 2010/2/12 kokilakr kr kokilakr...@gmail.com Hello, Thanks for the link. I referred http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Maemo:/Mer:/Devel:/MaemoCommon/MerDevel_Ubuntu_9.04/ And I could find few sample virtual keyboard plug-in installers and tried replacing the default keyboard plugin. It worked. But I could not find any API documentation or samples on how to use new framework APIs. Can you please provide me the link if any. Thanks On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Carsten Munk carsten.m...@gmail.comwrote: That one is not in use anymore. On build.opensuse.org in Maemo:Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon we have the hildon-input-plugins-example we use. 2010/2/12 kokilakr kr kokilakr...@gmail.com: Hello, Thanks. But I don't know how to use the latest framework. :-) But in link, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4178 it is written, Comment #22 from Murray Cumming 2009-10-14 11:11:24 GMT+3 [reply] I've heard from the Mer developers that these examples now work in a public SDK (Maemo 5.0 Final). Fixed. They say the examples work with Maemo 5.0. But in Mer there is only one example virtual keyboard plugin, http://gitorious.org/mer/him-arabic which also contains unsupported APIs. Thanks, 2010/2/12 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 13:21 +0100, ext kokilakr kr wrote: Hello, But is this the latest example? The code contains functions which are unsupported in latest SDK, hildon_im_ui_button_set_toggle() hildon_im_ui_button_set_label() hildon_im_ui_button_* Yes, it hasn't been updated after September 2007, it seems :) I can give you commit rights if you can do it ;) -Kimmo Thanks, 2010/2/12 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 12:17 +0100, ext Daniel Martin Yerga wrote: Hi. On 12/02/10 09:54, kokilakr kr wrote: Hello All, Thanks for information about out dated documentation. But I could not find any information, examples or sample virtual keyboard based on new framework. And the header file do not contain any alternate APIs. So does this mean we cannot modify system wide virtual keyboard plugin on Maemo 5? Thanks, Yes, we can. In this bug report [1] you will find the right information. The examples used to be in [2] (there was even a portrait keyboard), but after the shutdown of the SVN at stage.maemo.org I don't know where the examples are now. I was not be able to find it in gitorious [3] Yes, we forgot to move this package. I put it to Gitorious now, using the source package contents: http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-input-method-plugins-example -Kimmo [1] https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4178 [2] https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-input-method-plugins-example/ [3] http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Bad Drawable when running hellogl_es2 example
Hi Kimmo, The source is from: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/4.5/examples/opengl/hellogl_es2 Thanks Charles _ Want to be a Space Travel Agent? If it exists, you'll find it on SEEK http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639089/direct/01/___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Jeremiah Foster wrote: Intel and Nokia collaboration: http://meego.com/ Right, sounds like maemo will be merged into meego. Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Sorry I didn't cc the list. I guess that the follow ups of this story will be very interesting. For starters, MeeGo claims to target automotive, where Intel has a very thin market share (if any). Will Intel bend to ARM for the development of MeeGo? Except for netbooks that ship Atom CPUs all the other MeeGo targets seem to be ARM devices. Any thoughts? Luca On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Johan Helsingius j...@julf.com wrote: Luca, So maemo-as-we-know will disappear and will reborn under the name of MeeGo? Well, disappear probably, but sounds like parts of the maemo effort will be carried over into meego. Does this mean that maemo-as-we-will-know is going to be completely opensource? Probably not. Seems the meego kernel is coming from the Intel moblin stuff, with the user interface/Qt library from Maemo. So my guess is that the UI stuff will be totally open source, but nokia-phone-specific stuff might still stay proprietary. No idea about what happens to official Nokia apps, such as Ovi maps. Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Nokia N900 is still not available here in the phone povider houses. There is coding and coding and no releasing. In the end google will buy Nokia and me and Amigo will be 23andme. Ami go home! there is no linux mobile phone for the masses, because the merge is delaying. We need the N900 with actual Qt software in the market, not not mameo 5, but as well not meego in 2 years. we need maemo6 now on the nokia N900 and a release in the phone houses. Open Source they know, but not marketing, they do not know. Remember my words: Google needs Phones, and Nokia provides them, So Nokia is a fish to eat! Nokia should merge with Acer. Anyhow. Users in the market wait for the N900. Any solution to send them one with phonehouse contract? On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Luca De Cicco ldeci...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry I didn't cc the list. I guess that the follow ups of this story will be very interesting. For starters, MeeGo claims to target automotive, where Intel has a very thin market share (if any). Will Intel bend to ARM for the development of MeeGo? Except for netbooks that ship Atom CPUs all the other MeeGo targets seem to be ARM devices. Any thoughts? Luca On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Johan Helsingius j...@julf.com wrote: Luca, So maemo-as-we-know will disappear and will reborn under the name of MeeGo? Well, disappear probably, but sounds like parts of the maemo effort will be carried over into meego. Does this mean that maemo-as-we-will-know is going to be completely opensource? Probably not. Seems the meego kernel is coming from the Intel moblin stuff, with the user interface/Qt library from Maemo. So my guess is that the UI stuff will be totally open source, but nokia-phone-specific stuff might still stay proprietary. No idea about what happens to official Nokia apps, such as Ovi maps. Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Is package importing working?
Two days ago autobuilder wasn't working for me. Now that it works, package importing doesn't seem to work, as I uploaded a package some time ago and while building succeeded, it hasn't been imported yet. This is getting old... Anyway, has anybody noticed the same? Thanks, Sascha ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is package importing working?
It seems so... I promoted a package from -devel to -testing three hours ago and the package interface is reporting its status as promoted but not imported yet. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.comwrote: Two days ago autobuilder wasn't working for me. Now that it works, package importing doesn't seem to work, as I uploaded a package some time ago and while building succeeded, it hasn't been imported yet. This is getting old... Anyway, has anybody noticed the same? Thanks, Sascha ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Luca Donaggio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mo, 2010-02-15 at 12:49 +0100, Luca De Cicco wrote: Will Intel bend to ARM for the development of MeeGo? Except for netbooks that ship Atom CPUs all the other MeeGo targets seem to be ARM Chris Davies (Slashgear) says it will: Of course, since other devices support Qt – such as Symbian – apps will also load on those handsets too. As for hardware support, MeeGo will run on both x86 Intel Atom processors and ARM-based chipsets more commonly found in mobile handsets. http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-and-intel-launch-meego-moblin-and-maemo-merge-1573930/ Disclaimer: I'm an Intel employee working on data synchronization in Moblin (SyncEvolution), but I'm not speaking for Intel in any way. I'm posting here with my private email address because that is the one I subscribed to this list before SyncEvolution became my main job. -- Bye, Patrick Ohly -- patrick.o...@gmx.de http://www.estamos.de/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is package importing working?
Yesterday evening it worked ok, but this morning I have the same problem. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Luca Donaggio donag...@gmail.com wrote: It seems so... I promoted a package from -devel to -testing three hours ago and the package interface is reporting its status as promoted but not imported yet. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.comwrote: Two days ago autobuilder wasn't working for me. Now that it works, package importing doesn't seem to work, as I uploaded a package some time ago and while building succeeded, it hasn't been imported yet. This is getting old... Anyway, has anybody noticed the same? Thanks, Sascha ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Luca Donaggio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Andrei Mirestean ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Feb 15, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Luca De Cicco wrote: I guess that the follow ups of this story will be very interesting. For starters, MeeGo claims to target automotive, where Intel has a very thin market share (if any). Umm, perhaps you haven't seen the GenIVI consortium? (http://genivi.org) That is an automobile consortium with lots of big players. They use Intel's Moblin. Will Intel bend to ARM for the development of MeeGo? I think they see the writing on the wall. Companies do not want a single vendor, architecture, programming language, etc. They want a healthy, diverse ecosystem. So ARM naturally has to be a part of it. It is a member of the GenIVI consortium BTW. Except for netbooks that ship Atom CPUs all the other MeeGo targets seem to be ARM devices. Any thoughts? This is an acknowledgement that the playing field is level. Let those who can develop, deploy, and market win. Those who try to lock you into their own platform (Apple, Google, Windows) won't be able to compete with thousands of developers, both paid and unpaid. Jeremiah Luca On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Johan Helsingius j...@julf.com wrote: Luca, So maemo-as-we-know will disappear and will reborn under the name of MeeGo? Well, disappear probably, but sounds like parts of the maemo effort will be carried over into meego. Does this mean that maemo-as-we-will-know is going to be completely opensource? Probably not. Seems the meego kernel is coming from the Intel moblin stuff, with the user interface/Qt library from Maemo. So my guess is that the UI stuff will be totally open source, but nokia-phone-specific stuff might still stay proprietary. No idea about what happens to official Nokia apps, such as Ovi maps. Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is package importing working?
On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:41 PM, Andrei Mirestean wrote: Yesterday evening it worked ok, but this morning I have the same problem. Niels apparently was working on this. Jeremiah On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Luca Donaggio donag...@gmail.com wrote: It seems so... I promoted a package from -devel to -testing three hours ago and the package interface is reporting its status as promoted but not imported yet. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.com wrote: Two days ago autobuilder wasn't working for me. Now that it works, package importing doesn't seem to work, as I uploaded a package some time ago and while building succeeded, it hasn't been imported yet. This is getting old... Anyway, has anybody noticed the same? Thanks, Sascha ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Luca Donaggio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Andrei Mirestean ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is package importing working?
There was a package 'stuck', which prevented the update. Everything should be back to normal soon. -- Niels Breet maemo.org webmaster Yesterday evening it worked ok, but this morning I have the same problem. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Luca Donaggio donag...@gmail.com wrote: It seems so... I promoted a package from -devel to -testing three hours ago and the package interface is reporting its status as promoted but not imported yet. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.comwrote: Two days ago autobuilder wasn't working for me. Now that it works, package importing doesn't seem to work, as I uploaded a package some time ago and while building succeeded, it hasn't been imported yet. This is getting old... Anyway, has anybody noticed the same? Thanks, Sascha -- Luca Donaggio -- Andrei Mirestean ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is package importing working?
Thanks Niels! On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Niels Breet ni...@maemo.org wrote: There was a package 'stuck', which prevented the update. Everything should be back to normal soon. -- Niels Breet maemo.org webmaster Yesterday evening it worked ok, but this morning I have the same problem. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Luca Donaggio donag...@gmail.com wrote: It seems so... I promoted a package from -devel to -testing three hours ago and the package interface is reporting its status as promoted but not imported yet. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.comwrote: Two days ago autobuilder wasn't working for me. Now that it works, package importing doesn't seem to work, as I uploaded a package some time ago and while building succeeded, it hasn't been imported yet. This is getting old... Anyway, has anybody noticed the same? Thanks, Sascha -- Luca Donaggio -- Andrei Mirestean -- Luca Donaggio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Is package importing working?
It works now, my package was imported. Thanks! On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Niels Breet ni...@maemo.org wrote: There was a package 'stuck', which prevented the update. Everything should be back to normal soon. -- Niels Breet maemo.org webmaster Yesterday evening it worked ok, but this morning I have the same problem. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Luca Donaggio donag...@gmail.com wrote: It seems so... I promoted a package from -devel to -testing three hours ago and the package interface is reporting its status as promoted but not imported yet. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.comwrote: Two days ago autobuilder wasn't working for me. Now that it works, package importing doesn't seem to work, as I uploaded a package some time ago and while building succeeded, it hasn't been imported yet. This is getting old... Anyway, has anybody noticed the same? Thanks, Sascha -- Luca Donaggio -- Andrei Mirestean -- Andrei Mirestean ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Feb 15, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Luca De Cicco wrote: I guess that the follow ups of this story will be very interesting. For starters, MeeGo claims to target automotive, where Intel has a very thin market share (if any). Umm, perhaps you haven't seen the GenIVI consortium? (http://genivi.org) That is an automobile consortium with lots of big players. They use Intel's Moblin. Will Intel bend to ARM for the development of MeeGo? I think they see the writing on the wall. Companies do not want a single vendor, architecture, programming language, etc. They want a healthy, diverse ecosystem. So ARM naturally has to be a part of it. It is a member of the GenIVI consortium BTW. Except for netbooks that ship Atom CPUs all the other MeeGo targets seem to be ARM devices. Any thoughts? This is an acknowledgement that the playing field is level. Let those who can develop, deploy, and market win. Those who try to lock you into their own platform (Apple, Google, Windows) won't be able to compete with thousands of developers, both paid and unpaid. Jeremiah Luca On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Johan Helsingius j...@julf.com wrote: Luca, So maemo-as-we-know will disappear and will reborn under the name of MeeGo? Well, disappear probably, but sounds like parts of the maemo effort will be carried over into meego. Does this mean that maemo-as-we-will-know is going to be completely opensource? Probably not. Seems the meego kernel is coming from the Intel moblin stuff, with the user interface/Qt library from Maemo. So my guess is that the UI stuff will be totally open source, but nokia-phone-specific stuff might still stay proprietary. No idea about what happens to official Nokia apps, such as Ovi maps. Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Hi, I looked through the MeeGo site but could not see anything about packaging. A while back Moblin moved away from .deb to .rpm to develop more community around Moblin. Which (or maybe both?) will be supported on MeeGo Ian -- http://ianlawrence.info ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On 15/02/10 14:26, Ian wrote: Hi, I looked through the MeeGo site but could not see anything about packaging. A while back Moblin moved away from .deb to .rpm to develop more community around Moblin. Which (or maybe both?) will be supported on MeeGo Ian Meego will use .rpm: http://meego.com/about/faq ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Hey Meego will use .rpm: http://meego.com/about/faq thx..damn, i had looked at that page too - need more coffee obviously Ian -- http://ianlawrence.info ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 14:30, Daniel Martin Yerga dye...@gmail.com wrote: Meego will use .rpm: http://meego.com/about/faq This is very bad news IMO. I work a lot with both formats and I know which one is less painful. -Tor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Am Montag, den 15.02.2010, 14:44 +0100 schrieb Tor: On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 14:30, Daniel Martin Yerga dye...@gmail.com wrote: Meego will use .rpm: http://meego.com/about/faq This is very bad news IMO. I work a lot with both formats and I know which one is less painful. And this is a very subjective comment that misses any arguments. ;-) andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Tor wrote: This is very bad news IMO. I work a lot with both formats and I know which one is less painful. Completely subjective. I work with both, and I can tell you the opposite. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Jeremiah Foster wrote: Intel and Nokia collaboration:http://meego.com/ I guess I'll be the first to ask then: N900 support upgrade path planned? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
the problem is not the package format itself but they available applications using the package format. Maemo uses .deb and already has lots of applications (plus Jebba's etch build). For Moblin, OTOH, are they any applications? Is there any good reason to switch to .rpm except for breaking compatibility? On 15.02.10 14:51, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Montag, den 15.02.2010, 14:44 +0100 schrieb Tor: On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 14:30, Daniel Martin Yerga dye...@gmail.com wrote: Meego will use .rpm: http://meego.com/about/faq This is very bad news IMO. I work a lot with both formats and I know which one is less painful. And this is a very subjective comment that misses any arguments. ;-) andre -- Thomas Tanner -- email: tan...@gmx.de GnuPG: 1024/5924D4DD ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Its not to much an issue to convert deb-packages to rpm, though. You might want to have a look at: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/alien/ I prefer rpm to deb as well. Cheers, Chris On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Thomas Tanner tan...@gmx.de wrote: the problem is not the package format itself but they available applications using the package format. Maemo uses .deb and already has lots of applications (plus Jebba's etch build). For Moblin, OTOH, are they any applications? Is there any good reason to switch to .rpm except for breaking compatibility? On 15.02.10 14:51, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Montag, den 15.02.2010, 14:44 +0100 schrieb Tor: On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 14:30, Daniel Martin Yerga dye...@gmail.com wrote: Meego will use .rpm: http://meego.com/about/faq This is very bad news IMO. I work a lot with both formats and I know which one is less painful. And this is a very subjective comment that misses any arguments. ;-) andre -- Thomas Tanner -- email: tan...@gmx.de GnuPG: 1024/5924D4DD ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
MeeGO will support opengl? On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 6:52 AM, Jeremiah Foster jerem...@jeremiahfoster.com wrote: Intel and Nokia collaboration: http://meego.com/ Jeremiah ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Henry Bilby ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Feb 15, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Thomas Tanner wrote: The problem is more complex than converting binary .debs to .rpms using a hack. alien is not a hack. It is packaged and maintained by Joey Hess who wrote debhelper. Few people know more about debian's build system than Joey. The dependencies, the build script and Debian (ucf, debconf) or Maemo (maemo-optify) specific aspects of the sources would need to be adapted as well. Backporting to Maemo5 would also be more difficult. Backporting is always going to be difficult. Who benefits more from the merger, Moblin or Maemo? Both benefit if we get the kind of scale that is imagined. We create a single platform to power many devices across the device spectrum. This is a battle for the operating system that works everywhere BUT the desktop, they already concede that Windows owns that and no one wants to fight there. Jeremiah ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On 15.02.10 16:47, Jeremiah Foster wrote: The problem is more complex than converting binary .debs to .rpms using a hack. alien is not a hack. the hack referes to a process ignoring the issues listed below. No automated process can take into account all the distribution and program specific quirks. The dependencies, the build script and Debian (ucf, debconf) or Maemo (maemo-optify) specific aspects of the sources would need to be adapted as well. Backporting to Maemo5 would also be more difficult. Who benefits more from the merger, Moblin or Maemo? Both benefit if we get the kind of scale that is imagined. I'm not critising the merger itself, but how and what is merged and whether that are top-down decisions or whether the community is involved. AFAIK there a hardly any Moblin specific third-party apps. It could be much less effort to integrate the Moblin components in a Debian based system than converting all Maemo apps to Moblin/RPM. -- Thomas Tanner -- email: tan...@gmx.de GnuPG: 1024/5924D4DD ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On 15 Feb 2010, at 16:21, Thomas Tanner wrote: On 15.02.10 16:47, Jeremiah Foster wrote: The problem is more complex than converting binary .debs to .rpms using a hack. alien is not a hack. the hack referes to a process ignoring the issues listed below. No automated process can take into account all the distribution and program specific quirks. The dependencies, the build script and Debian (ucf, debconf) or Maemo (maemo-optify) specific aspects of the sources would need to be adapted as well. Backporting to Maemo5 would also be more difficult. Who benefits more from the merger, Moblin or Maemo? Both benefit if we get the kind of scale that is imagined. I'm not critising the merger itself, but how and what is merged and whether that are top-down decisions or whether the community is involved. AFAIK there a hardly any Moblin specific third-party apps. It could be much less effort to integrate the Moblin components in a Debian based system than converting all Maemo apps to Moblin/RPM. Its already been done with the Ubuntu Moblin Remix. (Disclaimer, I work for Canonical who did the Moblin Remix). Thomas Tanner -- Regards, Jamie. -- http://www.linuxuk.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
I would stay away of packaging holy wars (packaging is boooring) :). It is true that packaging has some technical implications, however I would focus more on the scenario we are going to experience. How and who will manage the community efforts? Is MeeGo going to be deployed on real commercial products (nokia phones, tv sets)? Generally, I'm a bit cautious when new mobile/embedded OS hit the news. All of them promise heaven, but then very few are deployed in real products (that is Symbian, windows CE). just my two cents, Luca On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Thomas Tanner tan...@gmx.de wrote: On 15.02.10 16:47, Jeremiah Foster wrote: The problem is more complex than converting binary .debs to .rpms using a hack. alien is not a hack. the hack referes to a process ignoring the issues listed below. No automated process can take into account all the distribution and program specific quirks. The dependencies, the build script and Debian (ucf, debconf) or Maemo (maemo-optify) specific aspects of the sources would need to be adapted as well. Backporting to Maemo5 would also be more difficult. Who benefits more from the merger, Moblin or Maemo? Both benefit if we get the kind of scale that is imagined. I'm not critising the merger itself, but how and what is merged and whether that are top-down decisions or whether the community is involved. AFAIK there a hardly any Moblin specific third-party apps. It could be much less effort to integrate the Moblin components in a Debian based system than converting all Maemo apps to Moblin/RPM. -- Thomas Tanner -- email: tan...@gmx.de GnuPG: 1024/5924D4DD ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
battery indicator
I would like to augment the battery indicator in the status bar with a something numeric (I'm thinking a single digit representing the remaining battery charge to the nearest tenth). Where would I look to get started with this? martin ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Thomas Tanner tan...@gmx.de wrote: The problem is more complex than converting binary .debs to .rpms using a hack. The dependencies, the build script and Debian (ucf, debconf) or Maemo (maemo-optify) specific aspects of the sources would need to be adapted as well. Backporting to Maemo5 would also be more difficult. Who benefits more from the merger, Moblin or Maemo? Since MeeGo is about to become the successor of Maemo, I guess there won't be any need to backport anything. I guess that rpm is just more advanced than deb. Finally, most third party software applicable to date is either binary or rpm, but not deb. It is probably easier to convince developers to port their linux tools to MeeGo if they're already familiar with the package management. Cheers, Chris ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:21:12 +0100 Thomas Tanner tan...@gmx.de wrote: AFAIK there a hardly any Moblin specific third-party apps. It could be much less effort to integrate the Moblin components in a Debian based system than converting all Maemo apps to Moblin/RPM. of course that is what we - maemo guys - say. The opinion of moblin developers might be the exact opposite ;) Dieter PS: I have no idea of moblin's size, so maybe you make a good point. I don't know. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Why touch event go through my window
Hi, Reply inline. 2010/2/15 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com: On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 04:09 +0100, ext Evan JIANG wrote: Thank you for your reply. Since I'm on travel now, I may could only try it some days later. I guess it's cause by the browser and hildon-desktop called some matchbox API directly, that maybe some MB APIs could hide the window and the window can not be shown again with GTK APIs. No, there are no Matchbox(2) APIs used by applications. (The API is not even available at all because the libmatchbox2 library is statically linked to hildon-desktop, so no application is able to dynamically link to it.) I said that because of I saw #include matchbox/core/mb-wm.h and lots of APIs like mb_wm_* in hildon-desktop source code. The code is from http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop . My guess about your ghost window is that the X window stacking does not match what the compositor shows on the screen. So it could be a bug in hildon-desktop, or it could be some unsupported window type (that's why I asked for xprop and xwininfo outputs). I found everything works well with FireFox borwser for Maemo. That is interesting... Have you tried the N900 browser in fullscreen mode, does it work then? No, it has the same problem in N900 browser with fullscreen mode. Here I could give more details about the window lifecycle. There's a scim-gtk-panel daemon which will auto start when system startup. When the daemon starts, it will create a winodw, and hide it immediately. Everytime when the input method need to show the input window, it will send command to the daemon to show the input window and move it to the front. When the inputing is done and edit field loses the focus, the input window will be hidden by calling gtk_widget_hide This should work if the window is supported by the window manager (to see that I need the xprop xwininfo outputs or a test program from you). I did these on my window: gtk_window_set_type_hint (GTK_WINDOW (_input_window), GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_DIALOG); gtk_widget_set_name (_input_window, hildon-input-method-ui); But I've tried to comment these lines or change to other types or names. It has the same problem. This design works all right on most of PC Desktop Linux. As I said, it also works well for most applications on Maemo, except browser. In the Browser application, when the input window is showing, and I click on other places to close the window, the window won't show again with gtk_widget_show_all. My current workaround is, when the input window need to be hidden, I will destroy the window, and next time when it need to be shown, I will create the window again. With this workaround, it works just OK now. But, the performance is much worse than before, since creating and destroying the window take longer time. This workaround should not be necessary. We have many such windows, for example the Select Connection dialog that you use to select connection to the Internet. It sounds like the window type is confusing to the window manager and it does not behave right in this case. The application is in mameo extras-devel repository. Could you help me to test that? You can get it from http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/m/mscim/mscim_1.4.7-1maemo5_armel.deb It's not the latest version in the repository. Because I've applied my workaround since mscim_1.4.7-1maemo6_armel, you need to try one before version 1.4.7-1maemo6. And please also install mscim-googlepinyin package from maemo extras-devel repository. The input method only works after both of these 2 packages are installed. After install these packages, you need to reboot the device. Focus in an edit field, and press keys will show the input window. Maybe you will need ctrl+space to turn on the input method. It's a Chinese input method, but I think you don't need to care that. Like, you can just press a to test. Here is howto reproduce the problem: 1.Launch N900 browser, and goto google homepage. 2.Click the search field to make it able to input. 3.Press a with hard keyboard. The input window should show now. 4.Click other places in the web page, but not the edit field and inside the input window. The input window will be hidden now. Or maybe sometimes even you click the buttons in input window, the problem will happen, too. Then, no way to show the input window again. If you do the same steps in other applications like conversation - New SMS, the input window will still show when you next time press a. Not sure if these informations are enought. Thank you very much for your help. Best regards, Evan JIANG -Kimmo Best regards, Evan JIANG 2010/2/12 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com: On Sat, 2010-02-06 at 16:53 +0100, ext Evan JIANG wrote: Hi all, I'm developing an input method for N900. The main window is not full screen, and looks like this:
Re: MeeGo-Mailinglist Merge (MMM)
Hello both mailinglists will be disabled, and merged into the megoo mailinglist Right? :-P When? ! ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: confusion about koffice viewer
On Sunday 14 February 2010, Christopher Intemann wrote: I'm really confused now. Can the koffice viewer only display documents, or is editing and creation of new documents possible eventually? The viewer can only view presentation and word processor documents, with spreadsheets coming and has a specialized interface for Maemo. I use it read documnets on the go, and it works for my needs. There also exists a complete port of an older beta of KOffice2 to Maemo. That includes all applications, but does not have a specialized interface and really is no more than a proof of concept. -- Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Monday 15 February 2010 17:55:16 Christopher Intemann wrote: I guess that rpm is just more advanced than deb. Finally, most third party software applicable to date is either binary or rpm, but not deb. It is probably easier to convince developers to port their linux tools to MeeGo if they're already familiar with the package management. Which third party software are you referring to ? Not trying to get into the packaging format fight, just being curious... Regards, Attila ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo-Mailinglist Merge (MMM)
Am Montag, den 15.02.2010, 18:25 +0100 schrieb Max: both mailinglists will be disabled, and merged into the megoo mailinglist Right? :-P No? :-P When? ! *If* it happens: When it's time to do so. Maemo and Moblin both coexist right now and there is no need to pollute each project with questions specific to the other platform respectively. andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs wrote: On Monday 15 February 2010 17:55:16 Christopher Intemann wrote: I guess that rpm is just more advanced than deb. Finally, most third party software applicable to date is either binary or rpm, but not deb. It is probably easier to convince developers to port their linux tools to MeeGo if they're already familiar with the package management. Which third party software are you referring to ? Not trying to get into the packaging format fight, just being curious... Linux binaries, like... flash, silverlight (mono package), several google apps like chrome, google desktop/gadgets/earth/picasa... I'm currently installing all my stuff via the repositories, but after having used as well Debian, SuSE and Fedora for several years, I have the impression that, if there is a binary package available for download, it would be an RPM. I've barely seen Debs for download. By the way. Is Moblin using yum, yast, or anything homebrew? Cheers, Chris ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On 15.02.10 17:55, Christopher Intemann wrote: Since MeeGo is about to become the successor of Maemo, I guess there won't be any need to backport anything. such an attitude would make lots of N900 and N8x0 owners angry... I guess that rpm is just more advanced than deb. this is wrong, but not relevant here. The package format itself is negligible. The important point is the infrastructure it implies. According to http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2068665492.html Moblin switched from Ubuntu to Fedora because RPM offers the advantage of containing license information (I don't whether that's the only or main reason). But .debs have the license information in their doc directory (most of them are DFSG free anyway) and it could be added as X-License field of the package description, if necessary. I don't want a platform that is merely a Qt runtime enviroment (Symbian would be sufficient) but one which also offers me easy access to the complete GNU/Linux software world. Debian based distributions have offered working ARM ports for years but Fedora does not. Porting Moblin/Fedora to ARM would be lots of duplicated effort, using Maemo/Debian on X86 or ARM is for free. On 15.02.10 17:57, Dieter Plaetinck wrote: PS: I have no idea of moblin's size, so maybe you make a good point. I don't know. I could only find those standard GNOME applications http://garage.moblin.org/garage/all?page=1 -- Thomas Tanner -- email: tan...@gmx.de GnuPG: 1024/5924D4DD ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
MeeGo, unity or fragmentation?
Just analyzing the news.. Many devices - Tablets, cars, phones, televisions: * Different screen sizes require different UI designs, and often more. * On small mobile devices energy consumption is more acute problem than on tablet, tv or car. Software originating from other device family might suck phone battery dry.. * The devices won't have the same input devices, there might be devices without any touch screen or hardware keys. * Software for one device can not be guaranteed to be ok on another device. What will the QA be like, can there even be a single QA? It it hard to develop for a device which one does not have. Additionally, who even cares about some devices they do not have? * GTK and QT need to learn to live together even better than before. * Single software stack will help to convince developers seeking a market. * Ovi Store and Intel AppUp Center, already two separate places for software, what if one more store comes out? How about Repositories? * Will I be able to move my DRM'd programs and files from Nokia MeeBoo to Intel MeeToo? * MeeGo GTK will not not compute on S60. = code once, use every does not apply? Will it be necessary to port software from MeeGo to MeeGo to get it work on different devices? How these internal boundaries will be defined and made secure? Two corporations make better cake than one? * Does moblin really have community or just paid drones? Moblin-dev, the only mailing list they have had 3 mails today, yesterday 1, last friday 1. Didn't bother to check the irc channel. * It might be more natural for maemo to swallow moblin, but it seems that as there is two corporation in helm, a third instance has to be created. (MeeGo even has a dictator duo, that is one benovolent dictator per company) * How much there will be design by commitee? * MeeGo, is it distribution or a platform? Add a lot of old software components and few new software components.. rpm faq entry on packaging sound more like a distribution than platform. * Where is the nice and soft .org? Corporations say, community follows? p.s. Meego is a short-lived American science fiction sitcom... 1997... was canceled half way through its first season. -- VRe ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RPM vs. Deb (was Re: MeeGo)
Thomas Tanner wrote: I don't want a platform that is merely a Qt runtime enviroment (Symbian would be sufficient) but one which also offers me easy access to the complete GNU/Linux software world. Debian based distributions have offered working ARM ports for years but Fedora does not. Porting Moblin/Fedora to ARM would be lots of duplicated effort, using Maemo/Debian on X86 or ARM is for free. Thomas, you're getting all upset over nothing. The fact that RPM will now be used is nothing more than politics. No features will be lost. No amount of whining to this list will change what is already in motion. *cough* http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM *cough* I don't see any value in this continued discussion of RPM vs. Deb. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Max, Nokia N900 is still not available here in the phone povider houses. And why does that matter? What's wrong with getting it from the Nokia online store? Why do you feel the need to support the old world phone channels? Open Source they know, but not marketing, they do not know. I would argue the opposite :) Remember my words: Google needs Phones, and Nokia provides them, So Nokia is a fish to eat! You are of course entitled to your opinion. Users in the market wait for the N900. If they want one, that can of course go an buy one. Any solution to send them one with phonehouse contract? Phonehouse contract? Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: RPM vs. Deb (was Re: MeeGo)
I have repeatedly stated this is not about the package format! It is about the infrastructure and the available software. I have no problem with commercial apps being installed as rpms (using alien). Why should we drop the efforts of the Maemo and Debian community on ARM devices? Where is the Moblin community anway? compare http://arm.koji.fedoraproject.org/packages_to_be_fixed.html with http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/arm On 15.02.10 19:07, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Thomas, you're getting all upset over nothing. The fact that RPM will now be used is nothing more than politics. No features will be lost. No amount of whining to this list will change what is already in motion. *cough* http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM *cough* I don't see any value in this continued discussion of RPM vs. Deb. -- Thomas Tanner -- email: tan...@gmx.de GnuPG: 1024/5924D4DD ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Nokia was the leader with the communicator phone, everyone wanted since the smartphone age, nokia knows, selling hardware has gone and acquired Qt. the N 900 is a relaunch of the communicator. but no phone house gets it. In the meantime we have - Motorola Milstone and - sony ericson x-peria 10 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/MWC-Was-Kleines-von-Sony-Ericsson-930178.html?view=zoom;zoom=1 Nokia knows, that the linux app store is sooo small and buggy, not comparable with Iphone, Furthermore maemo5 is not allowing to install Qt, the overslept to bring mamemo 06 on the nokai N 900. Then Symbian was made open source, so no meamo is needed anymore. The rest is to merge maemo and pull off the ground for the N900, as app developers can make apps open for symbian. The result is a delay again and again no selling of phones, esp., the N900 The mass market buys phone in a phonehouse, not because linux is on it. that would be a side effect to bring linux to the masses. We need good selling phones, then this list makes sense. Which consumer wil buy a N900 , while Qt is not installed on maemo 5, they wait for a upgrade to mamemo 06 and now they wait 2 years for N900 with meego. That is the left hand pulling of the ground for the right hand. Either nokia is a hadware manufacturer or a software geek, merging nerd groups. Here the software developers stopped the selling succes of the Nokia N900. No customer will buy a N 900 with outdated mameo 05 or outdated maemo 06, and a N900 with mee Go is a pure vaporware. Look at apple, they know product cylcus with Ipad: first without wifi and with added 64 MB, then a G3 one, and then a size bigger and brighter.. Nokia N900 is exactly the opposite. Each step shows : Dont buy a N900 it is not ready, we just made the website frames to fill something in. And really, what do you suggest from intel? They are strong in automotive, but not in the phone world. Moblin is good, but linux phone kernel closed source? so which geeks do you want to enthusiast? Google will buy Nokia and will show us, how a product cyclus of a chrome-phone is scheduled.. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Johan Helsingius j...@julf.com wrote: Max, Nokia N900 is still not available here in the phone povider houses. And why does that matter? What's wrong with getting it from the Nokia online store? Why do you feel the need to support the old world phone channels? Users in the market wait for the N900. If they want one, that can of course go an buy one. Any solution to send them one with phonehouse contract? Phonehouse contract? Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Am Montag, den 15.02.2010, 19:15 +0100 schrieb Johan Helsingius: And why does that matter? Don't feed the trolls, just ignore them, I'd propose here... :-) andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: MeeGo
From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Max [petersonm...@googlemail.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:30 PM To: Johan Helsingius Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: MeeGo Nokia was the leader with the communicator phone, everyone wanted since the smartphone age, nokia knows, selling hardware has gone and acquired Qt. the N 900 is a relaunch of the communicator. but no phone house gets it. In the meantime we have - Motorola Milstone and - sony ericson x-peria 10 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/MWC-Was-Kleines-von-Sony-Ericsson-930178.html?view=zoom;zoom=1 Nokia knows, that the linux app store is sooo small and buggy, not comparable with Iphone, OVI Store for Maemo has just opened, it will grow. Think how big was Apple appstore half of year after iPhone was published ? I think that it was not existing at all. Furthermore maemo5 is not allowing to install Qt, the overslept to bring mamemo 06 on the nokai N 900. There has been Qt for Maemo 5 lot before even N900 was released. Qt for Maemo5 was releaste together with SDK beta about one year ago. Qt has been instalable from repositories and now in MWC, we also annouced that final Qt4.6 port for Maemo 5 is there http://qt.nokia.com/products/qt-news-from-mwc Then Symbian was made open source, so no meamo is needed anymore. Maemo is Open Source but it is also targeted to diferent device category than Symbian. The rest is to merge maemo and pull off the ground for the N900, as app developers can make apps open for symbian. The result is a delay again and again no selling of phones, esp., the N900 The mass market buys phone in a phonehouse, not because linux is on it. that would be a side effect to bring linux to the masses. It depends a lot of market area how end users buy their device. In some markets, like in North America most ones buy subsidized phone from Operators. In many others markets, they buy device from shop and then SIM from operator. We need good selling phones, then this list makes sense. Which consumer wil buy a N900 , while Qt is not installed on maemo 5, they wait for a upgrade to mamemo 06 and now they wait 2 years for N900 with meego. End user does not even know what is Qt or GTK. When end user installs applications, they does not even know is it Qt or GTK application. many of OVI store applivations for Maemo 5 are already Qt apps. Kate ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: RPM vs. Deb (was Re: MeeGo)
Michael Cronenworth a écrit : Thomas Tanner wrote: I don't want a platform that is merely a Qt runtime enviroment (Symbian would be sufficient) but one which also offers me easy access to the complete GNU/Linux software world. Debian based distributions have offered working ARM ports for years but Fedora does not. Porting Moblin/Fedora to ARM would be lots of duplicated effort, using Maemo/Debian on X86 or ARM is for free. Thomas, you're getting all upset over nothing. The fact that RPM will now be used is nothing more than politics. No features will be lost. No amount of whining to this list will change what is already in motion. *cough* http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM *cough* I don't see any value in this continued discussion of RPM vs. Deb. Because you don't see any value into the hug advance Debian have in both infrastructure and quality to manage multiple architectures. There is no comparable effort in others distributions like Debian have proved to develop a multiarch distribution. Multiarch will probably start to be usable sometime after the next Debian release and this will greatly impact the way embedded systems will be build. Using obscure politic decision vs recognize the technical merit and effort should be added on top of the How to destroy a community list. Regards, Jean-Christian de Rivaz ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Andre, Don't feed the trolls, just ignore them, I'd propose here... :-) I think you are right... :) Julf ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Max petersonm...@googlemail.com wrote: the N 900 is a relaunch of the communicator. but no phone house gets it. By the way: What is phonehouse? Were'nt they a provider which did eventually merge into Mobilcom or sth.? In which country do they still exist? I haven't seen a store for ages. And, finally: Does it matter at all? Just saw the N900 at several stores, including Saturn, so I would claim it applicable. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: confusion about koffice viewer
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: On Sunday 14 February 2010, Christopher Intemann wrote: I'm really confused now. Can the koffice viewer only display documents, or is editing and creation of new documents possible eventually? The viewer can only view presentation and word processor documents, with spreadsheets coming and has a specialized interface for Maemo. I use it read documnets on the go, and it works for my needs. There also exists a complete port of an older beta of KOffice2 to Maemo. That includes all applications, but does not have a specialized interface and really is no more than a proof of concept. Ah, ok, great. Thanks for clarification! Chris ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Monday 15 February 2010 18:44:26 Christopher Intemann wrote: software applicable to date is either binary or rpm, but not deb. It is probably easier to convince developers to port their linux tools to MeeGo if they're already familiar with the package management. Which third party software are you referring to ? Not trying to get into the packaging format fight, just being curious... Linux binaries, like... flash, silverlight (mono package), several google apps like chrome, google desktop/gadgets/earth/picasa... I'm currently installing all my stuff via the repositories, but after having used as well Debian, SuSE and Fedora for several years, I have the impression that, if there is a binary package available for download, it would be an RPM. I've barely seen Debs for download. For the record, Adobe's Flash, Google's Chrome and Picasa officially offer DEBs. Moonlight is distributed as a firefox plugin, so it does not really relate to this question. Google Earth provides only a binary blob install (good luck getting rid of it or fighting through it's dependency/64bit hell). So, again, which software are we talking about that has issues with packaging formats (either way) ? People seem to be missing the point - it's not whether DEBs or RPMs are better - the question here was why change your existing package architecture (whichever it is), i.e. what's the big thing we're (as in developer community, Maemo, or MeeGo or whatever) winning by this change ? Moblin was citing better developer and community acceptance as the reasons for the switch (I don't buy the license talk for a second), but that is theoretically exactly what Maemo brings to the table. That's why I'm puzzled why this choice went the Moblin side in the end. Regards, Attila ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
MeeGarage ?
The meego.com site is announcing being in the process of merging moblin and maemo garages. As someone who has a few projects on garage.maemo.org, it would be nice to have a few general remarks from the Maemo side of this merger as to what the future holds, should we mentally prepare to pack our bags, VCS', etc. Regards, Attila ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo, unity or fragmentation?
I would rather see the benefits from the merge. The different package format does not really matter, since developer tools allow to create packages automatically and it won't need much efforts for developers to provide both a deb and a rpm release. Having a OS which is not bound to a single device such as the N900 but available on several platforms is a great benefit for both endusers - imaging having both a netbook and a phone running virtually the same OS, allowing to use the same applications (and even packages) on both devices - and developers, which can then provide applications for a far bigger community. Since Maemo is already more mature than Moblin (IMHO) and does already provide a telephony interface, I guess the first MeeGo release will be widely based on Maemo but use rpm as packaging format. I don't see a cross platform/hardware (ARM vs. Intel) issue as well, since the package format is absolutely independent from the platform (and I personal have had no issues with using SuSE on Sparc a while ago, which was rpm based). Finally, Moblin utilizes yum, which is very similar to apt-get / apt-cache, and IMHO far better than SuSE Yast, as it is more handy and easier to use from the prompt. It's probably very likely that MeeGo will come with yum as well, great news for Fedora users! Regards, Chris On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Ville Reijonen vi...@cs.tut.fi wrote: Just analyzing the news.. Many devices - Tablets, cars, phones, televisions: * Different screen sizes require different UI designs, and often more. * On small mobile devices energy consumption is more acute problem than on tablet, tv or car. Software originating from other device family might suck phone battery dry.. * The devices won't have the same input devices, there might be devices without any touch screen or hardware keys. * Software for one device can not be guaranteed to be ok on another device. What will the QA be like, can there even be a single QA? It it hard to develop for a device which one does not have. Additionally, who even cares about some devices they do not have? * GTK and QT need to learn to live together even better than before. * Single software stack will help to convince developers seeking a market. * Ovi Store and Intel AppUp Center, already two separate places for software, what if one more store comes out? How about Repositories? * Will I be able to move my DRM'd programs and files from Nokia MeeBoo to Intel MeeToo? * MeeGo GTK will not not compute on S60. = code once, use every does not apply? Will it be necessary to port software from MeeGo to MeeGo to get it work on different devices? How these internal boundaries will be defined and made secure? Two corporations make better cake than one? * Does moblin really have community or just paid drones? Moblin-dev, the only mailing list they have had 3 mails today, yesterday 1, last friday 1. Didn't bother to check the irc channel. * It might be more natural for maemo to swallow moblin, but it seems that as there is two corporation in helm, a third instance has to be created. (MeeGo even has a dictator duo, that is one benovolent dictator per company) * How much there will be design by commitee? * MeeGo, is it distribution or a platform? Add a lot of old software components and few new software components.. rpm faq entry on packaging sound more like a distribution than platform. * Where is the nice and soft .org? Corporations say, community follows? p.s. Meego is a short-lived American science fiction sitcom... 1997... was canceled half way through its first season. -- VRe ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
These two statements together make it clear for me as a hobby developer on this platform that there is nothing to worry about, topic closed :-) OTOH, I've clearly seen the limits of the App Manager (speed/performance) from a user perspective and hope that the switch to .rpm could improve that. Even if I have to repack my measly apps (after finally having mastered debbing after years...), I'm glad to see Maemo getting a strong partner. Happy hacking -Tom Tor wrote: This is very bad news IMO. I work a lot with both formats and I know which one is less painful. Completely subjective. I work with both, and I can tell you the opposite. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo, unity or fragmentation?
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Pavel Rojtberg li...@rojtberg.net wrote: Am 15.02.2010 21:32, schrieb Christopher Intemann: Since Maemo is already more mature than Moblin (IMHO) and does already provide a telephony interface, I guess the first MeeGo release will be widely based on Maemo but use rpm as packaging format. this is kind of a cotradiction - if Maemo is more mature, why should one change the package management of the less mature solution? In general I think the package format needs more discussion as it also implies a rebase of the distribution. Up to now Maemo was happily syncing from Debian, which obviously wont work with rpm any more. So there must be at least a HUGE advantage coming with RPM to justify the efford to switch. Well, I'm using Fedora on my desktop, so rpm is just fine for me... There seems to be an Fedora/ARM port available: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM However, since I'm not very familiar with that architecture, I can't say anything about the status compared to Debian/ARM. I have, however, always had the impression, that Fedora/RedHat/SuSE (the rpm-based distros) were rather targeting business users, while Debian was ment for personal users or kernel hackers in the first line. And, I wasn't very amused when I had to compile several security updates and do the patches on some Debian boxes by myself when those Debian maintainers were having arguments and were not updating the repositories some time ago. However, I'm aware that the Debian community is probably the biggest contributor to Linux. You're right, even if it does not bother me very much, Maemo merging into MeeGo implies a change from Debian to Fedora, if you want to say it that way. This will probably a big loss for the Debian/ARM project. By the way: Which, if at all, package management does Android use? Regards, Chris ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs wrote: For the record, Adobe's Flash, Google's Chrome and Picasa officially offer DEBs. Moonlight is distributed as a firefox plugin, so it does not really relate to this question. Google Earth provides only a binary blob install (good luck getting rid of it or fighting through it's dependency/64bit hell). So, again, which software are we talking about that has issues with packaging formats (either way) ? People seem to be missing the point - it's not whether DEBs or RPMs are better - the question here was why change your existing package architecture (whichever it is), i.e. what's the big thing we're (as in developer community, Maemo, or MeeGo or whatever) winning by this change ? Moblin was citing better developer and community acceptance as the reasons for the switch (I don't buy the license talk for a second), but that is theoretically exactly what Maemo brings to the table. That's why I'm puzzled why this choice went the Moblin side in the end. Is that so? I have not been using Debian for three or four years, but those times I found it always annoying that I could only find rpm's but not deb's of unfree/third-party software. However, since Ubuntu became a mayor linux distro in the recent years, it's very well conceivable that companies are now offering deb's as well. Sorry for any confusion if I was wrong. Regards, Chris ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Hi all, Henry Bilby - HMMB schrieb: MeeGO will support opengl? From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11. I hope someone can disprove :-( Cheers, Marc [1] http://qt.nokia.com/products/platform/qt-for-embedded-linux#compact-efficient-windowing-system signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Marc Bantle mar...@ntle.de wrote: From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11. [1] http://qt.nokia.com/products/platform/qt-for-embedded-linux#compact-efficient-windowing-system You misunderstand, or rather, you jump to conclusions. QWS is (or was?) part of Qtopia[1] which is no longer included with Qt as such. It still lives on over at http://qtopia.net/ - but it isn't used in either Moblin or Maemo, nor is it at all intended for Meego as far as I know. It is still perfectly usable on top of a Linux stack, though, yes. [1]: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/qtopiacore.html Cheers, Marc BR, Robin Burchell mob: +447702671419 msn: m...@viroteck.net irc: w00t @ irc.freenode.net twr: http://twitter.com/w00teh ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Marc Bantle wrote: From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11. I hope someone can disprove :-( Given GTK and clutter are supposed to still be available, won't there be X? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On 16.02.10 00:13, Marc Bantle wrote: From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11. I hope someone can disprove :-( http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process lopers -- Thomas Tanner -- email: tan...@gmx.de GnuPG: 1024/5924D4DD ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Hi, Thomas Tanner schrieb: On 16.02.10 00:13, Marc Bantle wrote: From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11. I hope someone can disprove :-( http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process Reads encouraging :-) I'll stay tuned. Marc signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
On 15/02/2010 17:29, Luca De Cicco wrote: I would stay away of packaging holy wars (packaging is boooring) :). It is true that packaging has some technical implications, however I would focus more on the scenario we are going to experience. But packaging is a whole part of a good user experience. Bad packaging means *bad* user experience, trust me. Cheers, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo, unity or fragmentation?
On 15/02/2010 22:26, Christopher Intemann wrote: Well, I'm using Fedora on my desktop, so rpm is just fine for me... There seems to be an Fedora/ARM port available: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM However, since I'm not very familiar with that architecture, I can't say anything about the status compared to Debian/ARM. That's not really the point. Maemo 5 uses (outdated) sources from Debian Etch, but they are rebuilt anyway (debian armel is built for armv4t to retain compatibility, dropping speed improvements from armv7) I have, however, always had the impression, that Fedora/RedHat/SuSE (the rpm-based distros) were rather targeting business users, while Debian was ment for personal users or kernel hackers in the first line. Imho that's just an impression, because Suse/Redhat are commercial players and you use RHEL/SLES with support. And, I wasn't very amused when I had to compile several security updates and do the patches on some Debian boxes by myself when those Debian maintainers were having arguments and were not updating the repositories some time ago. What exactly are you talking about? (though it's not the correct place to troll distro, we were talking packaging format). In other news, I'm still not sure how those “security updates” are handled in maemo (they seem not be). Don't know at all for Moblin. However, I'm aware that the Debian community is probably the biggest contributor to Linux. You're right, even if it does not bother me very much, Maemo merging into MeeGo implies a change from Debian to Fedora, if you want to say it that way. This will probably a big loss for the Debian/ARM project. Like I said above, Maemo doesn't use directly Debian armel. They do use Debian package but with huge modifications and rebuilt. By the way: Which, if at all, package management does Android use? Jar stuff, I guess. Cheers, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo, unity or fragmentation?
On pon 15 lut 2010 21:49:14 CET, Pavel Rojtberg li...@rojtberg.net wrote: I guess the first MeeGo release will be widely based on Maemo but use rpm as packaging format. Maemo maybe is longer on a market but will rather not be a base - will rather provide applications and phone stuff. In general I think the package format needs more discussion as it also implies a rebase of the distribution. There is no space for discussion - we are community not company. Moblin already has OBS working for building software and they decided about using Fedora as base over 18 months ago (used Ubuntu before). Up to now Maemo was happily syncing from Debian, which obviously wont work with rpm any more. Please... Maemo was not syncing with Debian. It just took few updated components from it. So there must be at least a HUGE advantage coming with RPM to justify the efford to switch. Less work for nokia on base system as Moblin provides nice working, maintained one instead of bunch of random versions used in Maemo5. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo, unity or fragmentation?
Marcin, that sounds reasonable! Chris 2010/2/16, Marcin Juszkiewicz mar...@juszkiewicz.com.pl: On pon 15 lut 2010 21:49:14 CET, Pavel Rojtberg li...@rojtberg.net wrote: I guess the first MeeGo release will be widely based on Maemo but use rpm as packaging format. Maemo maybe is longer on a market but will rather not be a base - will rather provide applications and phone stuff. In general I think the package format needs more discussion as it also implies a rebase of the distribution. There is no space for discussion - we are community not company. Moblin already has OBS working for building software and they decided about using Fedora as base over 18 months ago (used Ubuntu before). Up to now Maemo was happily syncing from Debian, which obviously wont work with rpm any more. Please... Maemo was not syncing with Debian. It just took few updated components from it. So there must be at least a HUGE advantage coming with RPM to justify the efford to switch. Less work for nokia on base system as Moblin provides nice working, maintained one instead of bunch of random versions used in Maemo5. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Von meinen Mobilgerät aus gesendet ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MeeGo
Hi, But packaging is a whole part of a good user experience. Bad packaging means *bad* user experience, trust me. I think this is the real problem about rpm here. Technically, I think rpm is superior to deb but Debian's apt is still unmatched as a package manager and the packagers do a better job (maybe because deb is easier to create?). I haven't used yum for years, so it might be better today, but back then (2004/2005), badly packaged stuff with bad dependencies and the utter slowness of yum drove me away from Redhat. I was involved in a project creating a Linux LiveCD builder based on Fedora for customer-customisable CDs. The user selects the applications she wants on the CD and the CD builder automatically resolves the package dependencies to build the CD. While in theory this idea was great and should easily be doable, we faced a lot of dependency-resolving problems with the original Fedora packages. Eeventually, we gave up on using yum for dependency-resolving and tried to implement our own algorithms (or should I say heuristics?) for resolving dependencies. rpm is very complex and allows for a lot of things that deb simply doesn't have. This makes it very hard to handle correctly. I have also ported Redhat's Anaconda installer to work with gentoo's emerge system for VidaLinux OS a few years ago. It's really hard stuff as rpm is so complex and badly documented. There are magic numbers and flags everywhere and this stuff is used. Redhat has a tradition of making simple things very complex (I would call it obfuscated open source, open source yes, but you rather don't dare touch it). Working with Redhat's code is a tedious task. OTOH, any maybe MeeGo will positively surprise me, rpm can be as simple and reliable as deb. Just my 2¢ Martin ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers