Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-11 Thread Frederic Crozat
Le mardi 10 janvier 2006 à 23:00 -0200, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri a
écrit :
 On 1/10/06, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 09:37:25AM -0200, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
 To make an input window work in maemo env ( this is different to
 defualt mb input win handling ) you need to have it set its transiency
 to the window its entering data for.
   
I think this would be undesirable as then the application window
would be resized.  This discussion was mostly about stuff like
SDL games which don't handle window resizes.  Therefore the
input method should be above the application window, not
make it to resize.
  
   seconded.
  
   Also, if I am right, this could avoid CPU usage in complex programs
   like web browser.
 
  Battery is affected more how often CPU is used than the height
  of CPU usage spike.  As input method comes  resizes application
  window only on user input, it's not significant from the battery
  usage point of view.
 
 I'm not taking battery in account, just the perceived slowness to
 resize/re-render the whole screen. I still don't have the device, but
 from what I've read, it takes some time to open the vkb for the first
 time due Opera's slow -rendering... or I misunderstood?

This bug was not present in the initial firmware (2005.40-2 IIRC), it
was introduced in the first firmware update and was not fixed since.

The desktop slow rendering at initial startup was also not present in
the initial firmware.

-- 
Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-10 Thread Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
On 1/10/06, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 09:37:25AM -0200, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
To make an input window work in maemo env ( this is different to
defualt mb input win handling ) you need to have it set its transiency
to the window its entering data for.
  
   I think this would be undesirable as then the application window
   would be resized.  This discussion was mostly about stuff like
   SDL games which don't handle window resizes.  Therefore the
   input method should be above the application window, not
   make it to resize.
 
  seconded.
 
  Also, if I am right, this could avoid CPU usage in complex programs
  like web browser.

 Battery is affected more how often CPU is used than the height
 of CPU usage spike.  As input method comes  resizes application
 window only on user input, it's not significant from the battery
 usage point of view.

I'm not taking battery in account, just the perceived slowness to
resize/re-render the whole screen. I still don't have the device, but
from what I've read, it takes some time to open the vkb for the first
time due Opera's slow -rendering... or I misunderstood?

--
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
--
Computer Engineer 2001 - UNICAMP
Mobile: +55 (19) 9165 8010
 Phone:  +1 (347) 624 6296; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ICQ#: 17249123
   MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   GPG: 0xB640E1A2 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-10 Thread Eero Tamminen
Hi,

On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:00:09PM -0200, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
  Battery is affected more how often CPU is used than the height
  of CPU usage spike.  As input method comes  resizes application
  window only on user input, it's not significant from the battery
  usage point of view.
 
 I'm not taking battery in account, just the perceived slowness to
 resize/re-render the whole screen. I still don't have the device, but
 from what I've read, it takes some time to open the vkb for the first
 time due Opera's slow -rendering... or I misunderstood?

Further resizes of browser window are not slow (nor any of the resizes
on any other applications), so the slowness has to be something else
that Browser does when its window size decreases significantly
for the first time.

(Btw. I've also noticed that the first time you launch browser after
bootup, freezes the desktop for several seconds. This doesn't
happen with any other application.)


- Eero

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-09 Thread Eero Tamminen
On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 05:36:45PM +, Matthew Allum wrote:
  As to the input method, maybe the program could depend from
  xkbd (AFAIK doesn't support unicode, but as it works by synthetizing
  key events with XTest extension it should work with all X programs)
 
 Xkbd is dead dead dead. Use matchbox-keyboard instead ( its a complete
 much needed rewrite ), it supports full UTF8 but lacks a couple of
 minor things like images on keys and themeing.

Good!

 
 Oh and its svn only :( See;
 
 http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/matchbox/trunk/matchbox-keyboard/README

Is there something preventing releasing it? :-)


  and launch it when the program itself is started?
 
 To make an input window work in maemo env ( this is different to
 defualt mb input win handling ) you need to have it set its transiency
 to the window its entering data for.

I think this would be undesirable as then the application window
would be resized.  This discussion was mostly about stuff like
SDL games which don't handle window resizes.  Therefore the
input method should be above the application window, not
make it to resize.


 matchbox-keyboard doesn't do this.
 but you could just embed matchbox-keyboard via XEMBED in some
 kind of wrapper of your toolkit of choice that handles the transiency
 or just avoid input windows all togeather and embed it direct in your
 app.



- Eero

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-09 Thread Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
On 1/9/06, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  To make an input window work in maemo env ( this is different to
  defualt mb input win handling ) you need to have it set its transiency
  to the window its entering data for.

 I think this would be undesirable as then the application window
 would be resized.  This discussion was mostly about stuff like
 SDL games which don't handle window resizes.  Therefore the
 input method should be above the application window, not
 make it to resize.

seconded.

Also, if I am right, this could avoid CPU usage in complex programs
like web browser.

--
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
--
Computer Engineer 2001 - UNICAMP
Mobile: +55 (19) 9165 8010
 Phone:  +1 (347) 624 6296; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ICQ#: 17249123
   MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   GPG: 0xB640E1A2 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-09 Thread Matthew Allum
Hi;

On 1/9/06, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Oh and its svn only :( See;
 
  http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/matchbox/trunk/matchbox-keyboard/README

 Is there something preventing releasing it? :-)


Yes, layout does not work as good as it should for small displays (
240x320 ). I wanted to fix this before release.


   and launch it when the program itself is started?
 
  To make an input window work in maemo env ( this is different to
  defualt mb input win handling ) you need to have it set its transiency
  to the window its entering data for.

 I think this would be undesirable as then the application window
 would be resized.  This discussion was mostly about stuff like
 SDL games which don't handle window resizes.  Therefore the
 input method should be above the application window, not
 make it to resize.


I dont think this can be done currently. best bet would be to XEmbed
mb-kb directly in app for this kind of thing.

  -- Matthew
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-09 Thread Eero Tamminen
Hi,

On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 01:12:40PM +, Matthew Allum wrote:
   To make an input window work in maemo env ( this is different to
   defualt mb input win handling ) you need to have it set its transiency
   to the window its entering data for.
 
  I think this would be undesirable as then the application window
  would be resized.  This discussion was mostly about stuff like
  SDL games which don't handle window resizes.  Therefore the
  input method should be above the application window, not
  make it to resize.
 
 I dont think this can be done currently. best bet would be to XEmbed
 mb-kb directly in app for this kind of thing.

Implementing simple non-resizing input method which application cannot
control (like it can control the one in 770) is easy, the input method
window needs just to be a system dialog so that it keeps above all
apps and user doesn't lose it when he switches to another application
or desktop.


- Eero

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-05 Thread Simon Guerrero

  On Wednesday 04 January 2006 21:53, Aaron Levinson wrote:
 
   As a general rule, building and running strictly X applications isn't
   going to cut it on the 770, and a true port of a GUI application to
 the
   maemo platform requires some programming, quite possibly extensive
   programming if the original application is only written using X.
  

I'm discovering this with my port of rdesktop. I have a (very early) alpha 
running which lets you enter some basic data through a messy GTK+ dialog then 
runs rdesktop full-screen.

The mouse stuff is all fine (although double-clicking takes some effort!) but 
the big problem is that it's all written in X11 code. I'm going to have to 
completely rewrite the X stuff for Hildon, replacing the event loop etc (it was 
difficult enough to port the make to autogen!)

This is a good example of how the unique nature of the 770's architecture can 
get you close on a port - but still miles away! :-)

Simon
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-05 Thread Aaron Levinson
Hi Simon,

Did you take a look at the Qt user interface implementation for rdesktop?  
Shouldn't be too difficult to port to GTK, and it's likely easier to port 
the Qt code than to port the X user interface implementation, since the 
Qt code already deals with higher level user interface concepts.  You 
could even start from the QtE (Qt Embedded) implementation.

I initially tried something similar with VNC to what you did for rdesktop,
but I gave up.  Mixing X and GTK tended to cause lots of problems.  
However, the nice thing about the rdesktop source code is that the user
interface implementation is kept separate from the underlying
communication protocol implementation, which is not the case for RealVNC's
vncviewer implementation.

Aaron

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Simon Guerrero wrote:

 
   On Wednesday 04 January 2006 21:53, Aaron Levinson wrote:
  
As a general rule, building and running strictly X applications isn't
going to cut it on the 770, and a true port of a GUI application to
  the
maemo platform requires some programming, quite possibly extensive
programming if the original application is only written using X.
   
 
 I'm discovering this with my port of rdesktop. I have a (very early)
 alpha running which lets you enter some basic data through a messy GTK+
 dialog then runs rdesktop full-screen.
 
 The mouse stuff is all fine (although double-clicking takes some
 effort!) but the big problem is that it's all written in X11 code. I'm
 going to have to completely rewrite the X stuff for Hildon, replacing
 the event loop etc (it was difficult enough to port the make to
 autogen!)
 
 This is a good example of how the unique nature of the 770's
 architecture can get you close on a port - but still miles away! :-)
 
 Simon
 

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-05 Thread Eero Tamminen
Hi,

 What exactly are the other issues that I mentioned?  Here's a list that
 is likely incomplete (and doesn't mention those issues already
 discussed):

If user cannot switch to an application already having a window
open, that should be filed as a bug.  I did a quick search on
Maemo bugzilla, but didn't find anything.  Didn't anybody consider
this as a bug???


As to the input method, maybe the program could depend from
xkbd (AFAIK doesn't support unicode, but as it works by synthetizing
key events with XTest extension it should work with all X programs)
and launch it when the program itself is started?


 1.  Full screen support

That doesn't need Gtk or Maemo support.  Just the use of the
EWMH standard window property for fullscreen. See:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards_2fwm_2dspec

Fullscreen key is sent as a normal X key event so that shouldn't
be a problem either.


 2.  Proper menus, toolbars, titles.

These are only look  layout issues, not problems functionality
wise.  Menu key is also sent as a normal X key event.


 3.  Integration with libosso (refer to libosso APIs for more information).

I think the only real problem here is that program shouldn't
use CPU (*at all*) if it's not visible (either untopped or
screen is blanked) and it's not doing something for the user
(e.g. playing music). Otherwise it will drain the battery
pretty quickly.

This shouldn't be any problem for apps that react only
to user input and don't do any polling.  Other applications
(and games), could check either:
- if they lose focus (e.g. in fullscreen SDL game)
- Matchbox X property for topmost app window (e.g. in Xlib programs), see:
  http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/documentation/developers/matchbox-key.txt
And then pause their polling...


 4.  And finally, behaving in a way that 770 users expect, based on
 the already existing software on the device and developed for the device.

Well, one can't get everything. :-)


- Eero

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-05 Thread Matthew Allum
Hi;

Have you tried setting the StartupWMClass key of the apps .desktop
file to whatever ace of penguins sets as its WM_CLASS window prop to (
you can find this out with xprop ) ?

If it dont set it, you may have to hack ace of penguins so it does.

  -- Matthew

On 1/4/06, Mark Arrasmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Because the 770 uses X11 I was interested in porting some X11 and fltk apps
 for fun.  I compiled Ace of Penguins ( http://www.delorie.com/store/ace/ )
 for the 770.  Ace of Penguins is a X11 based card game suite that includes
 solitaire, freecell, taipei, and others.

 Basically it is the same thing I did with the Agenda VR3 with I got that years
 ago.  So anyway, solitaire runs very fast (it is up and running as soon as
 the stylus leaves the screen) and is only 80K.  But, it doesn't show up in
 the left toolbar when running.  Which makes minimizing it kind of worthless.

 I have the X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true set in the .desktop file.  Is there
 anything else I need to do?

 - mark

 --
 A career is great, but you can't run your fingers through its hair.
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-05 Thread Matthew Allum
Hi;

On 1/5/06, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 As to the input method, maybe the program could depend from
 xkbd (AFAIK doesn't support unicode, but as it works by synthetizing
 key events with XTest extension it should work with all X programs)

Xkbd is dead dead dead. Use matchbox-keyboard instead ( its a complete
much needed rewrite ), it supports full UTF8 but lacks a couple of
minor things like images on keys and themeing.

Oh and its svn only :( See;

http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/matchbox/trunk/matchbox-keyboard/README

 and launch it when the program itself is started?


To make an input window work in maemo env ( this is different to
defualt mb input win handling ) you need to have it set its transiency
to the window its entering data for. matchbox-keyboard doesn't do
this. but you could just embed matchbox-keyboard via XEMBED in some
kind of wrapper of your toolkit of choice that handles the transiency
or just avoid input windows all togeather and embed it direct in your
app.

  -- Matthew
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[maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Mark Arrasmith
Because the 770 uses X11 I was interested in porting some X11 and fltk apps 
for fun.  I compiled Ace of Penguins ( http://www.delorie.com/store/ace/ ) 
for the 770.  Ace of Penguins is a X11 based card game suite that includes 
solitaire, freecell, taipei, and others.

Basically it is the same thing I did with the Agenda VR3 with I got that years 
ago.  So anyway, solitaire runs very fast (it is up and running as soon as 
the stylus leaves the screen) and is only 80K.  But, it doesn't show up in 
the left toolbar when running.  Which makes minimizing it kind of worthless.

I have the X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true set in the .desktop file.  Is there 
anything else I need to do?

- mark

-- 
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Vladislav Grinchenko
On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 17:43, Mark Arrasmith wrote:
 Because the 770 uses X11 I was interested in porting some X11 and fltk apps 
 for fun.  I compiled Ace of Penguins ( http://www.delorie.com/store/ace/ ) 
 for the 770.  Ace of Penguins is a X11 based card game suite that includes 
 solitaire, freecell, taipei, and others.
 
 Basically it is the same thing I did with the Agenda VR3 with I got that 
 years 
 ago.  So anyway, solitaire runs very fast (it is up and running as soon as 
 the stylus leaves the screen) and is only 80K.  But, it doesn't show up in 
 the left toolbar when running.  Which makes minimizing it kind of worthless.
 
 I have the X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true set in the .desktop file.  Is 
 there 
 anything else I need to do?
 
 - mark

Could be the icon size. Double-check that it is exactly 26x26. You can
also try to monitor dbug messages with
% dbus-monitr --system

-Vlad
-- 
_
Vladislav Grinchenko   http://home.comcast.net/~3rdshift/
 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Focus on quality, and productivity will follow.
_

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Aaron Levinson
It's important to note that even if you solve the problem of getting the
icon to display in the task bar, a bigger problem exists when an attempt
is made to run the software on the device itself.  Since it isn't a GTK
application, there will be no support for GTK input methods.  
Effectively, this means that users won't be able to input anything into
the application besides mouse strokes and clicks.  If the application is
entirely mouse-driven, that might be okay, but in addition, it won't be a
maemo application, and there will be other issues besides the lack of
input methods.

As a general rule, building and running strictly X applications isn't
going to cut it on the 770, and a true port of a GUI application to the
maemo platform requires some programming, quite possibly extensive
programming if the original application is only written using X.  One may
note that the Porting Existing Application example on maemo.org
demonstrates how to port an already existing _GTK_ application.

Aaron

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Vladislav Grinchenko wrote:

 On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 17:43, Mark Arrasmith wrote:
  Because the 770 uses X11 I was interested in porting some X11 and fltk apps 
  for fun.  I compiled Ace of Penguins ( http://www.delorie.com/store/ace/ ) 
  for the 770.  Ace of Penguins is a X11 based card game suite that includes 
  solitaire, freecell, taipei, and others.
  
  Basically it is the same thing I did with the Agenda VR3 with I got that 
  years 
  ago.  So anyway, solitaire runs very fast (it is up and running as soon as 
  the stylus leaves the screen) and is only 80K.  But, it doesn't show up in 
  the left toolbar when running.  Which makes minimizing it kind of worthless.
  
  I have the X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true set in the .desktop file.  Is 
  there 
  anything else I need to do?
  
  - mark
 
 Could be the icon size. Double-check that it is exactly 26x26. You can
 also try to monitor dbug messages with
 % dbus-monitr --system
 
 -Vlad
 -- 
 _
 Vladislav Grinchenko   http://home.comcast.net/~3rdshift/
  e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   Focus on quality, and productivity will follow.
 _
 
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Nicolas Roard
On 1/5/06, Aaron Levinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's important to note that even if you solve the problem of getting the
 icon to display in the task bar, a bigger problem exists when an attempt
 is made to run the software on the device itself.  Since it isn't a GTK
 application, there will be no support for GTK input methods.
 Effectively, this means that users won't be able to input anything into
 the application besides mouse strokes and clicks.  If the application is
 entirely mouse-driven, that might be okay, but in addition, it won't be a
 maemo application, and there will be other issues besides the lack of
 input methods.

Er... what are exactly the other issues ?.. isn't it running linux +
x11 after all ?
Apart from the input methods that obviously won't work, possibly some other
integration problem with matchbox (like this icon thing), and obviously anything
dependant to the hardware or memory/cpu hungry.. Things /should/ work, no ?
What am I missing ?

--
Nicolas Roard
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
  -Arthur C. Clarke
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Mark Arrasmith
On Wednesday 04 January 2006 21:37, Vladislav Grinchenko wrote:
 On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 17:43, Mark Arrasmith wrote:
  I have the X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true set in the .desktop file.  Is
  there anything else I need to do?

 Could be the icon size. Double-check that it is exactly 26x26. You can
 also try to monitor dbug messages with
 % dbus-monitr --system

Is this the icon specified in the .desktop file (I just copied the lmarbles 
desktop file's icons)?  Or the one within the application?

- mark
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Mark Arrasmith
On Wednesday 04 January 2006 21:53, Aaron Levinson wrote:
 Effectively, this means that users won't be able to input anything into
 the application besides mouse strokes and clicks.  If the application is
 entirely mouse-driven, that might be okay, but in addition, it won't be a
 maemo application, and there will be other issues besides the lack of
 input methods.

I've used things like xstroke and the keymacs keyboard app on tablet PC's as 
well as the Agenda VR3 ... so it did seem kind of strange how maemo was 
handling the keyboard.  Thanks for the extra info.

I suppose I can work around it for now by just porting keymacs to the 770.  
But, for card games I didn't need a keyboard anyway.

 As a general rule, building and running strictly X applications isn't
 going to cut it on the 770, and a true port of a GUI application to the
 maemo platform requires some programming, quite possibly extensive
 programming if the original application is only written using X.

Just out of curiosity.  Anyone know why this direction way chosen?  

It is easy enough to have an open system like the typical KDE, GNOME, XFCE, 
FLTK or whatever toolbar and keyboards like keymacs.  Where all the running 
X11 apps show up and the software keyboard+HWR can write to them.  I do this 
all the time on a tablet PC with an FLTK based keyboard+HWR (keymacs).  And I 
can use KDE or gtk applications without any problem.

Basically, why tie input so tightly to maemo?  And on an X11 environment where 
you could run any application?

- mark
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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Aaron Levinson
What exactly are the other issues that I mentioned?  Here's a list that is 
likely incomplete (and doesn't mention those issues already discussed):
1.  Full screen support
2.  Proper menus, toolbars, titles.  For instance, the window for a maemo 
application, if properly coded, will always fit within the confines of 
770's screen and take up as much space as possible.  The menu will always 
be accessible from the menu drop-down (unless in full-screen mode) and the 
toolbar will always be found at the bottom of the screen (unless it is 
turned off).  And the title of the window will always appear at the same 
spot.
3.  Integration with libosso (refer to libosso APIs for more information).  
Although, I think it is possible to use libosso without the application 
being a GTK application.  But of course, that requires additional coding.
4.  And finally, behaving in a way that 770 users expect, based on the
already existing software on the device and developed for the device.

These other issues could be considered to be minor nitpicks depending on 
one's perspective (unlike the input method problem, which is a serious 
issue).

Aaron

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Nicolas Roard wrote:

 On 1/5/06, Aaron Levinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It's important to note that even if you solve the problem of getting the
  icon to display in the task bar, a bigger problem exists when an attempt
  is made to run the software on the device itself.  Since it isn't a GTK
  application, there will be no support for GTK input methods.
  Effectively, this means that users won't be able to input anything into
  the application besides mouse strokes and clicks.  If the application is
  entirely mouse-driven, that might be okay, but in addition, it won't be a
  maemo application, and there will be other issues besides the lack of
  input methods.
 
 Er... what are exactly the other issues ?.. isn't it running linux +
 x11 after all ?
 Apart from the input methods that obviously won't work, possibly some other
 integration problem with matchbox (like this icon thing), and obviously 
 anything
 dependant to the hardware or memory/cpu hungry.. Things /should/ work, no ?
 What am I missing ?

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Re: [maemo-developers] non-maemo apps in toolbar

2006-01-04 Thread Aaron Levinson
I think some answers can be found in the Maemo Development Platform White
Paper, available at
http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/maemo_exec_whitepaper.html , and in the
Hildon UI style guide, available at
http://www.maemo.org/community/hildon_ui.html .

Aaron

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Mark Arrasmith wrote:

 On Wednesday 04 January 2006 21:53, Aaron Levinson wrote:

  As a general rule, building and running strictly X applications isn't
  going to cut it on the 770, and a true port of a GUI application to the
  maemo platform requires some programming, quite possibly extensive
  programming if the original application is only written using X.
 
 Just out of curiosity.  Anyone know why this direction way chosen?  
 
 It is easy enough to have an open system like the typical KDE, GNOME, XFCE, 
 FLTK or whatever toolbar and keyboards like keymacs.  Where all the running 
 X11 apps show up and the software keyboard+HWR can write to them.  I do this 
 all the time on a tablet PC with an FLTK based keyboard+HWR (keymacs).  And I 
 can use KDE or gtk applications without any problem.
 
 Basically, why tie input so tightly to maemo?  And on an X11 environment 
 where 
 you could run any application?

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