Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Hi, ext Laurent GUERBY wrote: hehehe an apt-like upgrades would be really nice! Another thing that I really miss from each nokia firmware release is the lack of commandline tools like ping, telnet(or nc), gunzip... Isn't gunzip already available from busybox? It is, see below. I opened a report so that the default busybox comes with a few more tools: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=989 I actually think it's better to have these tools separate from Busybox, available from Maemo repositories. That way: - They don't bloat the Bysybox version in the product - They can be the full versions ext pancake, You should register your requests here if you see useful missing tools. I think it would be better to have the Busybox additions (i.e. things that would go to the product) in a separate bug from utilities that should be easily installable/available from Maemo repositories. - Eero Laurent ~ $ /bin/busybox BusyBox v1.1.3 (Debian 3:1.1.3-3.osso17) multi-call binary Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]... or: [function] [arguments]... BusyBox is a multi-call binary that combines many common Unix utilities into a single executable. Most people will create a link to busybox for each function they wish to use and BusyBox will act like whatever it was invoked as! Currently defined functions: [, [[, ash, awk, basename, busybox, cat, chgrp, chmod, chown, chroot, chvt, clear, cmp, cp, cut, date, dd, df, dirname, dmesg, du, echo, egrep, env, expr, false, fgrep, find, free, fuser, getty, grep, gunzip, gzip, head, hostname, id, ifconfig, ifdown, ifup, insmod, kill, killall, last, ln, logger, login, ls, lsmod, mkdir, mkfifo, mknod, mkswap, mktemp, modprobe, more, mount, mv, netstat, nslookup, pivot_root, printf, ps, pwd, readlink, realpath, renice, reset, rm, rmdir, rmmod, route, run-parts, sed, seq, sh, sleep, sort, stty, su, swapoff, swapon, sync, sysctl, tail, tar, tee, test, time, top, touch, tr, true, tty, umount, uname, uniq, uptime, vi, wc, which, who, whoami, xargs, yes, zcat ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
On 4/12/07, Laurent GUERBY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unable to install: some application packages required for the installation are missing. Given that's just some misconfigured/misdocumented third party repo/deb, you can get those messages in any deb/apt based Linux current distribution so that's quite unfair to the app manager application. It doesn't matter what the technical cause is, the repository situation is a mess. Debian and Ubuntu don't have this problem by better centralising, delegating and testing their packages through a single build system. I worry that the Extras Repo is both too hard to upload to *and* too unregulated. For example, instead of porting a library like libsoup once, it's ported by Canola, it's ported for GPE etc. The end-user then suffers the problems caused by this lack of co-ordination. Yes, the original LWN article suggests it's the Application Manager's fault, but getting that corrected to point out the chaotic situation of an ever-expanding set of (potentially incompatible) repositories is a minor difference in an otherwise valid point. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Andrew Flegg schrieb: It doesn't matter what the technical cause is, the repository situation is a mess. Debian and Ubuntu don't have this problem by better centralising, delegating and testing their packages through a single build system. I worry that the Extras Repo is both too hard to upload to *and* too unregulated. For example, instead of porting a library like libsoup once, it's ported by Canola, it's ported for GPE etc. The end-user then suffers the problems caused by this lack of co-ordination. There are three different developers who independently ported ScummVM to Maemo by now. Also, I fear that soon there will be apps that run on previous IT OS distributions but never make it to the current release. It's also confusing that many 3rd party applications never actually find their way in the central repository, be they official or non-supported. (My Ubuntu desktop box also uses some non-official sources, but its sources-list is still far shorter than the one on my N800.) Maemo needs a release manager. The release manager should coordinate that interesting apps find packagers who take care of making them available for all current flavors of the IT OS distributions. Regards, Hanno ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Hi, ext pancake wrote: hehehe an apt-like upgrades would be really nice! Another thing that I really miss from each nokia firmware release is the lack of commandline tools like ping, telnet(or nc), gunzip... Isn't gunzip already available from busybox? - Eero ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
scummvm, Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Hanno Zulla wrote: There are three different developers who independently ported ScummVM to Maemo by now. Also, I fear that soon there will be apps that run on previous IT OS distributions but never make it to the current release. Who is the third one? First was Tomas Junnonen who started with 0.8.0. http://770.fs-security.com/scummvm/ He also enabled only scummvm suggesting that others should compile it themselves if they want another engines. Then I continued where he left and enabled more engines and updated it from 0.8.1 to current stable 0.9.1. See http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#scummvm The same package is also in extras repository (from the time when there was only one). This was later renamed to mistral one and others appeared. In fact same .deb package works in all IT2006 and 2007 releases and so far I was lazy to upload same package to all repositories that appered later (2.1,2.2,3.x). There is problem with making source package that could be uploaded and automatically build since currently scummvm does not compile completely out of box. One file in Kyrandia engine causes internal compiler error so it must be compiled with different flags (-O3 works, -O2 and -Os not) and I do it by hand (copy/paste/change) when building the package. So is there anyone else porting scummvm too? Let me know so we don't waste time doing same work. Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: scummvm, Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Frantisek Dufka schrieb: Hanno Zulla wrote: There are three different developers who independently ported ScummVM to Maemo by now. Also, I fear that soon there will be apps that run on previous IT OS distributions but never make it to the current release. Who is the third one? https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/mud-builder-users/2007-February/000115.html In fact same .deb package works in all IT2006 and 2007 releases Yes, thanks a lot! Just finished Monkey Island Part 3 with it (*). ScummVM is a great program and I'm very happy having it. (* Mostly. There where two scenes in the game, where I couldn't continue without a two-button mouse. MI1 and MI2 were no problem, though.) Regards, Hanno ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: scummvm, Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Frantisek Dufka schrieb: There are three different developers who independently ported ScummVM to Maemo by now. Also, I fear that soon there will be apps that run on previous IT OS distributions but never make it to the current release. First was Tomas Junnonen who started with 0.8.0. [..] Then I continued where he left and enabled more engines and updated it from 0.8.1 to current stable 0.9.1. Sorry. I wasn't aware that yours wasn't a seperate attempt, but a continuation. Regards, Hanno ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 11:59 +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, ext pancake wrote: hehehe an apt-like upgrades would be really nice! Another thing that I really miss from each nokia firmware release is the lack of commandline tools like ping, telnet(or nc), gunzip... Isn't gunzip already available from busybox? It is, see below. I opened a report so that the default busybox comes with a few more tools: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=989 ext pancake, You should register your requests here if you see useful missing tools. Laurent ~ $ /bin/busybox BusyBox v1.1.3 (Debian 3:1.1.3-3.osso17) multi-call binary Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]... or: [function] [arguments]... BusyBox is a multi-call binary that combines many common Unix utilities into a single executable. Most people will create a link to busybox for each function they wish to use and BusyBox will act like whatever it was invoked as! Currently defined functions: [, [[, ash, awk, basename, busybox, cat, chgrp, chmod, chown, chroot, chvt, clear, cmp, cp, cut, date, dd, df, dirname, dmesg, du, echo, egrep, env, expr, false, fgrep, find, free, fuser, getty, grep, gunzip, gzip, head, hostname, id, ifconfig, ifdown, ifup, insmod, kill, killall, last, ln, logger, login, ls, lsmod, mkdir, mkfifo, mknod, mkswap, mktemp, modprobe, more, mount, mv, netstat, nslookup, pivot_root, printf, ps, pwd, readlink, realpath, renice, reset, rm, rmdir, rmmod, route, run-parts, sed, seq, sh, sleep, sort, stty, su, swapoff, swapon, sync, sysctl, tail, tar, tee, test, time, top, touch, tr, true, tty, umount, uname, uniq, uptime, vi, wc, which, who, whoami, xargs, yes, zcat ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Hello, N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News Two examples of abandoned hardware http://lwn.net/Articles/229341/ It is subscriber only for one week. It does not contain big news for this group though. It summarizes the statements from Ari and Quim. The overall conclusion for the N770 is negative due to a fair amount of non-free software at all levels [in the 770], though they see some hope that Nokia opens up more components, which would change the picture especially for the N800. Thanks, Rainer -- Rainer Dorsch Lärchenstr. 6 D-72135 Dettenhausen 07157-734133 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Fingerprint: 5966 C54C 2B3C 42CC 1F4F 8F59 E3A8 C538 7519 141E Full GPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
On 4/12/07, Rainer Dorsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News Two examples of abandoned hardware http://lwn.net/Articles/229341/ It's a good article, up to LWN's usual high standards and worth reading for anyone interested in how Maemo's now being perceived outside of the somewhat closed community in which we're operating. It does not contain big news for this group though. It summarizes the statements from Ari and Quim. The overall conclusion for the N770 is negative due to a fair amount of non-free software at all levels [in the 770], though they see some hope that Nokia opens up more components, which would change the picture especially for the N800. The easiest situation for Nokia here is not to carry on the OS2007on770 work in private, but provide documentable, reusable steps for how it was accomplished. Then the community could take over ownership *and* (most importantly, I suspect, to Nokia) support. A proposed plan: 1) [Nokia] Update the Os2007On770 page with an up-to-date position on status, no legacy information (the history can be retrieved if necessary). 2) [Nokia] Update the Os2007on770 page, or the garage project, with a build system and documentation which (preferably) outputs the current FIASCO image from a series of source components (or, where necessary, closed source binary blobs). This step needs to include how OS2007on770 can be updated when later OS2007 releases are made for the N800. 3) [Nokia] Ask on maemo-developers for volunteer administrators of the Garage project, and give them admin rights. 4) [Community] Join OS2007on770 project and provide community support through Garage forums/mailing lists. 5) [Community] Improve stability. Track N800 releases. Get to an end-user ready state and polish build systems and processes. 6) [Community] Promote and publicise on planet.maemo.org, ITT, LWN, maemo-users etc. 7) [Community] Go to step 5. Yes, this requires some more work on the part of Nokia - but to be honest, did anyone there think another binary-only image for the 770 was really going to cut-it? The problem may only be one of perception and that all the bits are available, but I certainly think it'd help recover some of the widening PR negativity which is out there. Thoughts, as ever, welcome. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
2) [Nokia] Update the Os2007on770 page, or the garage project, with a build system and documentation which (preferably) outputs the current FIASCO image from a series of source components (or, where necessary, closed source binary blobs). This step needs to include how OS2007on770 can be updated when later OS2007 releases are made for the N800. I wish to be able to have free updates for the nokia in a free format. When I say free I say free as software, not as beer. So distributing the firmwares in the FIASCO format is weird so it's a propietary/privative format and for me all the privative components of the rootfs should be removed or replaced by free software. The only required parts to install OS2k7 is kernel, initfs and rootfs, so the blobloader still out of these components and can be freely distributed. BTW I can't understand why follow hacking on blobs when we should be able to build our own maemo rootfs's. This way will be safer, because upgrading the blobloader is dangerous (because of version incompatibilities, no source, and it's the more harmful piece of the fw) 5) [Community] Improve stability. Track N800 releases. Get to an end-user ready state and polish build systems and processes. For me Os2007On770 is more stable, usable, faster and lightweight than the latest SU2k6 firmware on n770. Yes, this requires some more work on the part of Nokia - but to be honest, did anyone there think another binary-only image for the 770 was really going to cut-it? The problem may only be one of perception and that all the bits are available, but I certainly think it'd help recover some of the widening PR negativity which is out there. I was really unhappy when nokia decided to abandon n770 after a year. I know that nokia is a company,and n770 was just a commercial strategy/social experiment to later publish a new device with better features. But please Nokia. If you abandon your childrens, please, provide us enought info to keep them updated by the community. /me wishes :) --pancake ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
On 4/12/07, pancake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish to be able to have free updates for the nokia in a free format. When I say free I say free as software, not as beer. So distributing the firmwares in the FIASCO format is weird so it's a propietary/privative format and for me all the privative components of the rootfs should be removed or replaced by free software. Agreed, and with the start of 0x (how many Fs? ;-)) it's less important to get FIASCO images out: it certainly would give a community-driven OS2007on770 project flexibility. However, I'd still advocate in the short term that an ability to generate FIASCO images is important: 1) there's a pretty Windows GUI for it already 2) 0x isn't necessarily mature enough yet. However, I'd imagine in time the OS2007on770 project would start shipping tarballs containing bzImage, initfs.img, rootfs.img (say) and use 0x - with knowledge of these tarballs - to upgrade all the components (or just the changed components) in one go. A more laudable aim if OS2007on770 starts forking off from Nokia's IT releases would be apt-gettable upgrades (but let's file that under Long Term Goals ;-)). Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Rainer Dorsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News Two examples of abandoned hardware http://lwn.net/Articles/229341/ It is subscriber only for one week. Those of you without LWN subscriptions can read the article at: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/229838/6d98406660425a0e/ jon Jonathan Corbet / LWN.net / [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
io andrew Agreed, and with the start of 0x (how many Fs? ;-)) it's less Heheh, 4, the required ones to fill a short variable :P important to get FIASCO images out: it certainly would give a community-driven OS2007on770 project flexibility. However, I'd still advocate in the short term that an ability to generate FIASCO images is important: 1) there's a pretty Windows GUI for it already What is windows? I'm writing a GTK+ (glade) frontend in C for 0x and other flashers for embedded devices like the one for the HTC phones. I have lot of wishes for it and very little time for coding :( But i'll happily receive your ideas and tips for it (here or in the 0x mailing list). 2) 0x isn't necessarily mature enough yet. Well I don't use the nokia one anymore, and works pretty fine, but I agree that it needs more work and a better code reorganization, but it's in a early stage (0.1). However, I'd imagine in time the OS2007on770 project would start shipping tarballs containing bzImage, initfs.img, rootfs.img (say) and use 0x - with knowledge of these tarballs - to upgrade all the components (or just the changed components) in one go. A tarball would be ok, but I would prefer to design a standard format for firmwares for embedded devices as I said in: http://nopcode.org/0x/?p=docuq=nokia-tips The (new and old) FIASCO firmware format is not a very clean format, it doesn't provide any checksumming facility to ensure that the contents of the firmware have been modified or incorrect, so i'll rather encourage to design and create a standard firmware format for embedded devices with checksumming, signatures, handling libraries, documentation and so. I'll happilly collaborate on the design of this open firmware format, and it would be used on all the open source-based devices to aim interoperability between devices and flashers, providing a more standard and reliable way of flashing devices. This will ease the development on new devices, so the information and the code could be revised and enhaced by zillions of eyes. 0x actually autodetects the piece type automatically, so no need for specifying what is what, the 'tarball' support can be done with a wrapper shellscript. A more laudable aim if OS2007on770 starts forking off from Nokia's IT releases would be apt-gettable upgrades (but let's file that under Long Term Goals ;-)). hehehe an apt-like upgrades would be really nice! Another thing that I really miss from each nokia firmware release is the lack of commandline tools like ping, telnet(or nc), gunzip... I was thinking on the possibility of writing a simple program packaged into a maemo-deb to allow backups from/to the device using the 0x graphical frontend, rsync and ssh can be used. --pancake ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N770 OS2007 hacker edition made it to the title page of Linux Weekly News
Thanks for the link. I saw no correction of the statement on the first article: The really bad news showed up with some of the other interesting packages, such as vim and gnumeric. The application manager will happily download the packages before popping up a window which says: Unable to install: some application packages required for the installation are missing. Such a message would perhaps have been acceptable ten years ago on some distributions. One would not expect to see it on a Debian-based system in 2007. There is no excuse for an application manager which is unable to handle dependencies anymore. Given that's just some misconfigured/misdocumented third party repo/deb, you can get those messages in any deb/apt based Linux current distribution so that's quite unfair to the app manager application. Sincerely, Laurent ___ maemo-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
