Re: gpe contacts import
On Wednesday 23 April 2008 21:40:16 Tommy Persson wrote: I generated such a file on my Palm T5 and had problem importing it. I think it works if no entry contais 8-bit characters or similar. if i removed entries with åäöé and so on in them it worked. If someone can send me an example vCard created by the Palm with 8-bit characters I would appreciate it. I would like to know if the problem is a Palm bug or a GPE bug and, if it is a Palm bug, look into whether we can work round it. It would also be useful to see which fields Palm tends to use so I can see if they are being mapped in the best way possible to GPE contacts fields. Seeing several different entries would be useful for this. Reliable import from Palm would be a very desirable feature. Graham ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
Mark wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Tommy Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I generated such a file on my Palm T5 and had problem importing it. I think it works if no entry contais 8-bit characters or similar. if i removed entries with åäöé and so on in them it worked. That's a very astute observation, and may be the issue at hand. I believe that I may have one German (Deutsch) entry in the file that has an umlaut. I'll check for that. More likely it's not actually 8-bit characters (I don't think anyone writes 7-bit software these days), but Unicode characters, which (depending on the encoding) may be 8, 16, 24, 32 or more bits long. Since XML (not directly relevant here, but it mandates Unicode) became the default format for inter-systems data transfer, pretty much everything and anything new or revised probably ought to be done in a Unicode-compliant manner. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE On Nokia N800 ITOS2007
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:09 AM, Mark Haury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Bart wrote: On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 10:13 -0600, Mark Haury wrote: I have to say that the critical deal killer for me is that even though it may be possible to jump through a few hoops and *import* data into gpe, there doesn't seem to be any way to *export* it back out. ... I would be a lot more willing to put more effort into getting my data into gpe if I was sure of a reasonably easy way of not only backing it up, There's a built in backup utility from Nokia that backs up the GPE directories. You can use rsync to backup your home directory to another drive, memory card, etc. Last but not least you can also simply copy the GPE directories to another location. I completely screwed up my explanation on this one. What I meant was that I want to be able to specify the working directory and keep all my data in an easily found and copied directory on one of the SDHC cards, where it's completely safe from reflashes and easily copied and transported to other machines/drives. ... I don't need that kind of functionality the way you do. So far I I've used load applet to take a screenshot of a specific entry and send that off. For me, the less I move my data around, the more time I have to do real work. For me, moving my data around *is* what I need to do. I use the data in different ways, with different apps, most of which don't understand vcf files but all of which do understand csv files. For me, the ideal import/export method is csv files. GPE at least uses sqlite, although just sqlite 2.1. You should be able to access/unload/load data from there using another tool - maybe even on your desktop. All apps should use sqlite on the device. Always... You can try datable (check garage.maemo.org) it's a nice start at making a DB front end for maemo. While you're at it, check out a MaemoPad+ database. That's exactly what I'm talking about! When I bought the Nokia, I (quite reasonably) assumed that it would have a decent PIM. Much less powerful and much more inexpensive units have very capable PIMs (come on, even my 10-plus-year-old Visor and Psion have better PIMs!). There's really no excuse for Nokia not porting Kontacts or Evolution or some other full-featured Linux PIM. I probably would have got an eee PC instead if I had known: the form factor of the Nokia isn't been nearly as much of an advantage without that particular functionality. Even those desktop PIMs are less capable than old Palm PIMs. I mean look at the grouping and filtering you can do with Datebk5, and how old is that? If any of these apps had icons on events I'd be dizzyingly happy. Nokia is a great device but it is limited when compared to my notebook. Each in it's place. (this reply is hitchhiking, sorry!) Have you tried KDE on the Nokia? With a keyboard and mouse attached? It's a tiny screen but there's no other reason why it can't be a little notebook. Closed minds and weak software are the only things really holding it back. I don't use Evolution, Schedule world, or Google. I use Access and up until now my Visor. I've been trying for a long time to migrate my Access databases to OOo Base, but it can't import tables or csv files any more than gpe can, and when connecting to the original Access database can't deal with any of the other database objects at all. Its report formatting is also incredibly limited at this point. (In my opinion, Base is still alpha level software, utterly unlike the rest of the suite.) Yeah you're better off working in MySQL, really. But as long as you have Access, look for a sqlite odbc driver. I think you can even open sqlite databases directly in Base. You may be able to import and export on the desktop. You can import in Base from CSV by the way, it's just amazingly counterintuitive (though it makes a certain functional sense). Create and register a DB first, then open the CSV file in Calc. Click View - Data sources. Open the DB tree to view Tables. Now select and drag the data and drop it on Tables. Weird huh? Maybe this is the way to get your GPE data working for you... If anybody can point me to a different cross-platform (mainly Windows and Linux, but Mac would be a plus) database that has most of the power and ease of Access (and the most important features are reliable import/export of csv and the ability to create report layouts from scratch), I would be *extremely* appreciative. I've tried to learn about SQL and frontends for it, but everything I can find basically assumes one already knows all about it and seem to be based on scripting, and I need to work from a GUI, including creating databases from scratch. The reason I need cross-platform and GUI is so I can share it with others in my organization who are not all that computer-literate and have different OS's than me. Well you could try FileMaker, only not for
Re: Can googlemaps use GPS sensor in N810 (MoRpHeUz)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, can I use navigation service of N810(wayfinder) on google maps? -tusar Well, if you install Maemomapper and have it use googlemaps as the map source, routing works just fine. In the Web-browser, no. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
(more personal opinions) On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:56 AM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, (personal opinions) ext Mark Haury wrote: Michael Wiktowy wrote: TANSTAAFL Expecting someone to put the bit of effort into detailing their problems is the smallest price to pay to have them fixed. Bug tracking software allows the developers to be a lot more efficient at staying on top of diagnosing issues than juggling a bunch of unstructured, vague, ranty emails. The fact that you have to do some email validation/registration process (similar to signing up for a mailing list) and you can't just reply back to the bug tracker via email is an unfortunate consequence of our spam-infested Internet. It may seem reasonable if you only consider a single bug in a single application, but that's not the real world scenario. What is actually happening is that the developers have the easy side of the bugzilla process, and they're only dealing with the one bugzilla, while the average user is dealing with bugs from a bunch of different apps at once. Don't try and tell me that's not valid. Submitting a bugzilla report shouldn't take more than 10 minutes 10 minutes is a long time for something that may not help. Multiply that by say 8-10 open source applications you are interested in, and you see why it's not worth the effort. whereas developer may spend hours trying to reproduce an issue. Usually there are only couple of developers, whereas users come in thousands. Open Source developers do the work free because they want to help others besides themselves. You do the math about which side should spend the bug reporting effort. Again, look at it from the user's point of view, please! It's all about triage. Triage is a cruel and brutal thing, when you define it, but either you 1) Leave it alone and you're done. i.e. workaround or adapt to the program 2) spend time on stuff that can be helped and 3) abandon the hopeless cases. More stuff falls in the 1 and 3 categories than you realize. When 7 or 8 core apps are buggy, you can't afford to report bugs unless it's really simple, convenient, and possibly even enjoyable (i.e. satisfaction of making a difference). Have you ever got the Report this error to Microsoft dialog box? That's what I'm talking about. If you go to effort of reporting the bug and actually reply questions on how the developers might be able to reproduce it, so that they can start investigating how to fix it, that shows that you actually care about the issue and that it's real. So you say we have thousands of users per developer. Great! The user should be able to email or whatever saying: xyz is crashing when I view the records. It means almost nothing to the dev, but if he gets 999 others that say exactly the same thing, it means the view records routine is horribly broken. On the other hand, if he gets 5 others, and notices they're all from non-latin alphabet countries, the dev is in the best position to put those pieces together. The DEV can make a bugzilla record. Maybe in another case he gets 5 others and one of those gives him good detail. He's on the trail, and the DEV can create a bugzilla record to track it. Instead what usually happens is the instant any individual report comes in the dev starts shouting about how the user should use bugzilla (yet another application, another big learning curve, and yet another registration on the net), expecting every user to be a developer or professional-grade QA tester too. That makes the triage for the user easy; 3) dump the program. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE On Nokia N800 ITOS2007
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:09:30PM -0600, Mark Haury wrote: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN Please don't post in HTML. /pre /blockquote I completely screwed up my explanation on this one. What I meant was that I want to be able to specify the working directory and keep all my data in an easily found and copied directory on one of the SDHC cards, where it's completely safe from reflashes and easily copied and transported to other machines/drives.br Step 1: Move the data base wherever you want it. Step 2: Stick in a symbolic link where it used to be. You might even want to mopve the entire .gpe directory tree. Think this might work? -- hendrik ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
Hi, Talking again about open source personal point of view, NOT about commercial software or products (such as Nokia device...). ext Jonathan Markevich wrote: It may seem reasonable if you only consider a single bug in a single application, but that's not the real world scenario. What is actually happening is that the developers have the easy side of the bugzilla process, and they're only dealing with the one bugzilla, while the average user is dealing with bugs from a bunch of different apps at once. Don't try and tell me that's not valid. Submitting a bugzilla report shouldn't take more than 10 minutes 10 minutes is a long time for something that may not help. Multiply that by say 8-10 open source applications you are interested in, and you see why it's not worth the effort. 10*10 minutes is still 2 hours. And you've then participated in helping 10 different projects to (potentially) improve! ** whereas developer may spend hours trying to reproduce an issue. ** Usually there are only couple of developers, whereas users come in thousands. Open Source developers do the work free because they want to help others besides themselves. You do the math about which side should spend the bug reporting effort. Again, look at it from the user's point of view, please! It's all about triage. Triage is a cruel and brutal thing, when you define it, but either you 1) Leave it alone and you're done. i.e. workaround or adapt to the program 2) spend time on stuff that can be helped and 3) abandon the hopeless cases. More stuff falls in the 1 and 3 categories than you realize. When 7 or 8 core apps are buggy, you can't afford to report bugs unless it's really simple, convenient, and possibly even enjoyable (i.e. satisfaction of making a difference). Have you ever got the Report this error to Microsoft dialog box? That's what I'm talking about. It's fairly similar to Ubuntu apport I think? Ubuntu's lacking MS problem solution database. Novell/SUSE has something similar to that though I think. However, those are distributions, not individual upstream projects like's discussed here. (Hm... Maybe maemo, as a basis for distribution could offer something here.) If you go to effort of reporting the bug and actually reply questions on how the developers might be able to reproduce it, so that they can start investigating how to fix it, that shows that you actually care about the issue and that it's real. So you say we have thousands of users per developer. Great! The user should be able to email or whatever saying: xyz is crashing when I view the records. It means almost nothing to the dev, but if he gets 999 others that say exactly the same thing, it means the view records routine is horribly broken. Usually it means that users are using too old version of the SW (e.g. because distro hasn't upgraded to latest version) and therefore wasting developers time. On the other hand, if he gets 5 others, and notices they're all from non-latin alphabet countries, the dev is in the best position to put those pieces together. The DEV can make a bugzilla record. Maybe in another case he gets 5 others and one of those gives him good detail. He's on the trail, and the DEV can create a bugzilla record to track it. Instead what usually happens is the instant any individual report comes in the dev starts shouting about how the user should use bugzilla (yet another application, another big learning curve, and yet another registration on the net), expecting every user to be a developer or professional-grade QA tester too. That makes the triage for the user easy; 3) dump the program. Regardless of how important you may feel yourself :-), most Open Source developers really aren't doing what they do to please you or get more users, but to solve the issues they have themselves or otherwise find interesting/fun to solve. Having more users is nice only if they help in that, otherwise they are just a drag. As it's possible that users at some later point become contributors, and it's nice to hear that your efforts are appreciated by others, Open Source developers are usually nice for the users (if they behave reasonably). However, Open Source is about a community of people who want to improve things *together*. If you just want to profit from their work without contributing yourself in someway (even to some other project), well, they're not going to miss you. - Eero (also a hobby open source developer) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE On Nokia N800 ITOS2007
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Jonathan Markevich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GPE at least uses sqlite, although just sqlite 2.1. You should be able to access/unload/load data from there using another tool - maybe even on your desktop. All apps should use sqlite on the device. Always... You can try datable (check garage.maemo.org) it's a nice start at making a DB front end for maemo. While you're at it, check out a MaemoPad+ database. That's exactly what I'm talking about! Thanks for the the tips. I'll look into them further. The learning curve is rather steep, though. Nokia is a great device but it is limited when compared to my notebook. Each in it's place. I don't agree. The raw horsepower isn't that much less than my current desktop, and the built-in peripheral hardware is amazing considering the size. The only limitations I see are the small screen size and lack of software. Maybe the latter will be rectified in due course. (this reply is hitchhiking, sorry!) Have you tried KDE on the Nokia? With a keyboard and mouse attached? It's a tiny screen but there's no other reason why it can't be a little notebook. Closed minds and weak software are the only things really holding it back. I would *really* like to try that (it sounds like it would be similar to my desktop kubuntu installation), but it's probably way beyond me and wouldn't support all the hardware. I don't use Evolution, Schedule world, or Google. I use Access and up until now my Visor. I've been trying for a long time to migrate my Access databases to OOo Base, but it can't import tables or csv files any more than gpe can, and when connecting to the original Access database can't deal with any of the other database objects at all. Its report formatting is also incredibly limited at this point. (In my opinion, Base is still alpha level software, utterly unlike the rest of the suite.) Yeah you're better off working in MySQL, really. But as long as you have Access, look for a sqlite odbc driver. I think you can even open sqlite databases directly in Base. You may be able to import and export on the desktop. You can import in Base from CSV by the way, it's just amazingly counterintuitive (though it makes a certain functional sense). Create and register a DB first, then open the CSV file in Calc. Click View - Data sources. Open the DB tree to view Tables. Now select and drag the data and drop it on Tables. Weird huh? I went through all that with the OOo people, and while it sort of imported the table I needed most, it really garbled it. It would have been more work to straighten it out than to retype everything. My databases are just large enough that neither is really an acceptable solution. Maybe this is the way to get your GPE data working for you... If anybody can point me to a different cross-platform (mainly Windows and Linux, but Mac would be a plus) database that has most of the power and ease of Access (and the most important features are reliable import/export of csv and the ability to create report layouts from scratch), I would be *extremely* appreciative. I've tried to learn about SQL and frontends for it, but everything I can find basically assumes one already knows all about it and seem to be based on scripting, and I need to work from a GUI, including creating databases from scratch. The reason I need cross-platform and GUI is so I can share it with others in my organization who are not all that computer-literate and have different OS's than me. Well you could try FileMaker, only not for Linux... File-based databases are a little dead. MS kinda locked the market, then pursued it as far as it can go. As for MySQL, you can do everything in their excellent GUI (or SQLYog), but you have to commit to a server-based database. My we're getting off topic now, though aren't we... I guess I don't understand the implications or implementation of server-based databases, but in my case I need to be able to work with the database when there is no network available, and transfer the database to another machine simply by connecting my USB drive to the other machine. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Shortcut Applet?
Simple launcher is great, but does have limits and a bug or to that could be updated. A two click kludge solution might be to create a local web page with links to what you want, assuming you can write a modestly simple web page with links to the files you want to open and the browser/system knows how to open the right app to view the file. Then use this as your desktop webpage shortcut (see add applets). Presumably you can access the page when there's no wifi. You could also bookmark the page and access it by clicking the web icon. Getting to you files is a 3 click solution this way. On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:13:35 -0400 Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While it does allow quick launches into applications, I don't see a way to quick launch a document or any other system file that is not an application. Chris On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Ryan Pavlik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Knott wrote: Ryan Pavlik wrote: Chris wrote: Anyone know of an applet (or another way) to make shortcuts on the desktop? I want to have a link to a document that I can immediately launch w/o going through the file manager. Tx Chris ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users simplelauncher I have just installed v0.9.5, but I only get a white box on my display, and don't ever get to an edit mode. I'm running OS2008 on an N800. Look in the Applet Settings menu item. -- Ryan Pavlik www.cleardefinition.com #282 + (442) - [X] A programmer started to cuss Because getting to sleep was a fuss As he lay there in bed Looping 'round in his head was: while(!asleep()) sheep++; ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Graham Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 23 April 2008 21:40:16 Tommy Persson wrote: I generated such a file on my Palm T5 and had problem importing it. I think it works if no entry contais 8-bit characters or similar. if i removed entries with åäöé and so on in them it worked. If someone can send me an example vCard created by the Palm with 8-bit characters I would appreciate it. I would like to know if the problem is a Palm bug or a GPE bug and, if it is a Palm bug, look into whether we can work round it. It would also be useful to see which fields Palm tends to use so I can see if they are being mapped in the best way possible to GPE contacts fields. Seeing several different entries would be useful for this. Reliable import from Palm would be a very desirable feature. Graham When I went back into my vcf file, the mapping of the home fields to business was Palm's fault. The reversal of the order of the city state happens on import to GPE, though. For me, the ideal import method would be to add a dialog on import that allows the user to specify which fields in the source file map to which fields in the GPE app. That's the way the Palm Desktop works, and it also adds the capability of creating a template file so that the mapping can be done automatically for sources that are repeatedly imported. Mark Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
Hi, ext Jonathan Markevich wrote: Talking again about open source personal point of view, NOT about commercial software or products (such as Nokia device...). If OSS doesn't view itself as professional as commercial stuff, then it's guaranteed to fail in the long run. Look at the success stories of OSS; Firefox, Apache, Linux, OOo, and so on. They have commercial interests behind them and full time developers (Google sponsors Firefox, Sun OOo, most of Linux developers are employed by companies etc). And you should see what the Linux kernel developers require from users reporting bugs[1]. :-) My comments were more about hobby Open Source projects in general. I think most of the maemo 3rd party applications are such. [1] There was recently a story about bug which required user to git-bisect rebuild kernel to find the change that had broken the kernel for his setup. That took 5 hours. After that the developers could find fix the issue. They aren't based around the bitterness of a developer in a basement. Submitting a bugzilla report shouldn't take more than 10 minutes 10 minutes is a long time for something that may not help. Multiply that by say 8-10 open source applications you are interested in, and you see why it's not worth the effort. 10*10 minutes is still 2 hours. And you've then participated in helping 10 different projects to (potentially) improve! Who has 2 hours to waste on something as fun as bugzilla? Even this email exchange is way more rewarding. I've put in a handful for certain projects, then watch them sit around doing nothing, only to get an email that says WONTFIX. That's user hostile. Yes, I know that it can be frustrating (I've had my share of that too). But it's not user hostile, just pragmatic. Developers are limited and have limited time so they need to prioritize it. Filing better bug reports (i.e. things that developer can immediately reproduce) is one way to prioritize the issues. Or if it's about a feature, the developers might have a different vision of their software. a difference). Have you ever got the Report this error to Microsoft dialog box? That's what I'm talking about. It's fairly similar to Ubuntu apport I think? Ubuntu's lacking MS problem solution database. Novell/SUSE has something similar to that though I think. However, those are distributions, not individual upstream projects like's discussed here. (Hm... Maybe maemo, as a basis for distribution could offer something here.) NOW you're talking! I'm trying to promote the many eyeballs thing and not the genius with a microscope thing. If you go to effort of reporting the bug and actually reply questions on how the developers might be able to reproduce it, so that they can start investigating how to fix it, that shows that you actually care about the issue and that it's real. So you say we have thousands of users per developer. Great! The user should be able to email or whatever saying: xyz is crashing when I view the records. It means almost nothing to the dev, but if he gets 999 others that say exactly the same thing, it means the view records routine is horribly broken. Usually it means that users are using too old version of the SW (e.g. because distro hasn't upgraded to latest version) and therefore wasting developers time. On the other hand, if he gets 5 others, and notices they're all from non-latin alphabet countries, the dev is in the best position to put those pieces together. The DEV can make a bugzilla record. Maybe in Instead what usually happens is the instant any individual report comes in the dev starts shouting about how the user should use bugzilla (yet another application, another big learning curve, and yet another registration on the net), expecting every user to be a developer or professional-grade QA tester too. That makes the triage for the user easy; 3) dump the program. Regardless of how important you may feel yourself :-), most Open Source This is not about my own perceived importance, but the developer's. Is he really more valuable than thousands or hundreds of users? It's not about developer importance, but what he has time to do. 1000*users surely can get more done than a single developer in regards to bug handling. If the issue is not important enough to user so that he reports a bug, that gives a pretty clear message to the developer about the importance of the issue. developers really aren't doing what they do to please you or get more users, but to solve the issues they have themselves or otherwise find interesting/fun to solve. Having more users is nice only if they help in that, otherwise they are just a drag. As it's possible that users at some later point become contributors, and it's nice to hear that your efforts are appreciated by others, Open Source developers are usually nice for the users (if they behave reasonably).
Re: gpe contacts import
Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Submitting a bugzilla report shouldn't take more than 10 minutes whereas developer may spend hours trying to reproduce an issue. Well, if you have gray listing for emails you have to wait half an hour or more before you can start if you have not submitted a bug report before. That is often a psychological obstacle. If I could do it directly I thought about it then 10 minutes would not be a problem. -- /Tommy Persson ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 01:43:26PM -0300, Jonathan Markevich wrote: If OSS doesn't view itself as professional as commercial stuff, then it's guaranteed to fail in the long run. Look at the success stories of OSS; Firefox, Apache, Linux, OOo, and so on. They aren't based around the Oh really? I started using Mozilla 0.5 or so, shortly after they split the code from Netscape. There were a number of problems with all compenents (back before the Firefox-Thunderbird split) and submitted and voted for numerous bugs, reallocating my votes after certain bugs were fixed. I would posit that Firefox is a better product specifically *because* of all the bug submissions. K -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 01:43:26PM -0300, Jonathan Markevich wrote: If OSS doesn't view itself as professional as commercial stuff, then it's guaranteed to fail in the long run. Look at the success stories of OSS; Firefox, Apache, Linux, OOo, and so on. They aren't based around the Oh really? I started using Mozilla 0.5 or so, shortly after they split the code from Netscape. There were a number of problems with all compenents (back before the Firefox-Thunderbird split) and submitted and voted for numerous bugs, reallocating my votes after certain bugs were fixed. I would posit that Firefox is a better product specifically *because* of all the bug submissions. My point there was that Mozilla/FF always considered itself to be professional, no matter how open the code is. Did anyone from the Mozilla team/foundation say meh, it's my browser, I like it this way. Go write your own. Besides, a typical install installs not only Firefox but the crash reporter... so, it nicely sidesteps the issue we are discussing anyway. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: GPE On Nokia N800 ITOS2007
Jonathan Markevich wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:09 AM, Mark Haury [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Bart wrote: I don't use Evolution, Schedule world, or Google. I use Access and up until now my Visor. I've been trying for a long time to migrate my Access databases to OOo Base, but it can't import tables or csv files any more than gpe can, and when connecting to the original Access database can't deal with any of the other database objects at all. Its report formatting is also incredibly limited at this point. (In my opinion, Base is still alpha level software, utterly unlike the rest of the suite.) Yeah you're better off working in MySQL, really. But as long as you have Access, look for a sqlite odbc driver. I think you can even open sqlite databases directly in Base. You may be able to import and export on the desktop. You can import in Base from CSV by the way, it's just amazingly counterintuitive (though it makes a certain functional sense). Create and register a DB first, then open the CSV file in Calc. Click View - Data sources. Open the DB tree to view Tables. Now select and drag the data and drop it on Tables. Weird huh? Maybe this is the way to get your GPE data working for you... If anybody can point me to a different cross-platform (mainly Windows and Linux, but Mac would be a plus) database that has most of the power and ease of Access (and the most important features are reliable import/export of csv and the ability to create report layouts from scratch), I would be *extremely* appreciative. I've tried to learn about SQL and frontends for it, but everything I can find basically assumes one already knows all about it and seem to be based on scripting, and I need to work from a GUI, including creating databases from scratch. The reason I need cross-platform and GUI is so I can share it with others in my organization who are not all that computer-literate and have different OS's than me. Well you could try FileMaker, only not for Linux... File-based databases are a little dead. MS kinda locked the market, then pursued it as far as it can go. As for MySQL, you can do everything in their excellent GUI (or SQLYog), but you have to commit to a server-based database. My we're getting off topic now, though aren't we... To completely get off topic, try Glom - it's a desktop graphical database thing (uses pgsql as backend I believe) and it has a maemo port - you set up forms in developer mode on the desktop then you can have essentially the same entry/review screen on the desktop and the tablet. I haven't tried it on the tablet, but I have read about it on planet gnome and have played with it on the desktop. Ryan -- Ryan Pavlik www.cleardefinition.com #282 + (442) - [X] A programmer started to cuss Because getting to sleep was a fuss As he lay there in bed Looping 'round in his head was: while(!asleep()) sheep++; ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My comments were more about hobby Open Source projects in general. I think most of the maemo 3rd party applications are such. Why should it be so different? Isn't it nice to be a hobby developer and be listed up there with the big boys? Who has 2 hours to waste on something as fun as bugzilla? Even this email exchange is way more rewarding. I've put in a handful for certain projects, then watch them sit around doing nothing, only to get an email that says WONTFIX. That's user hostile. Yes, I know that it can be frustrating (I've had my share of that too). But it's not user hostile, just pragmatic. Developers are limited and Yes it's hostile. It's all caps, and tells the user they're an idiot all in seven simple letters. Granted it is very efficient of the developer's time... That makes the triage for the user easy; 3) dump the program. Regardless of how important you may feel yourself :-), most Open Source This is not about my own perceived importance, but the developer's. Is he really more valuable than thousands or hundreds of users? It's not about developer importance, but what he has time to do. 1000*users surely can get more done than a single developer in regards to bug handling. All a user is trying to do is keep the water out of the boat, not figure out the oceanography that caused the rock to puncture it. If the issue is not important enough to user so that he reports a bug, that gives a pretty clear message to the developer about the importance of the issue. And chewing out at a user like that gives a pretty clear message of the importance of the user(s). Again, this is a very unprofessional way to develop. developers really aren't doing what they do to please you or get more Well, I was talking about hobby Open Source projects. By professional I don't mean making money I mean respectful attitude. As if you expected to make money. And makes the platform unattractive to users and investors (I also mean investors of mindshare and time as well as money) Yes, distro/platform proving some easy way to provide error information to developers (without swamping them) would indeed be a good thing... (in addition to providing common bug tracking system so that users need to register there only once) Bugzilla appears to be useful. Any bug tracking system is essential. It's just not a user tool, it's a developer tool. It's complex and frightening, and indeed, rather user hostile. things *together*. If you just want to profit from their work without contributing yourself in someway (even to some other project), well, they're not going to miss you. Do you say the same thing to developers? If you don't want to respond to users' input, take a hike, we're not going to miss you. Sorry I lost you? Respect goes two ways. Blowing off users is a bad move. Using the program IS contributing to it. It tends to create a network of users, spreading the word is important and attracts potential developers. The best experiences I've had with developers on maemo so far is on the ITT forums. It's simple to report, you can see results, and takes only seconds. One registration for many many applications, and it's something you might want to do in the long run anyway. That sounds an excellent way for the users to organizecollect the information required for a good (reproducible) bug report. It's then enough that one of them reports the bug. No no, the developer can't be in an ivory tower. If he uses a bug tracker in the background or not, I don't need to know or care. The developer needs to be *there*. The forum posts are sometimes as good as fully fledged bug reports. They may still solicit bug submissions, but likely the user might have already have done what he could. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 02:50:08PM -0300, Jonathan Markevich wrote: My point there was that Mozilla/FF always considered itself to be professional, no matter how open the code is. Did anyone from the Mozilla Besides, a typical install installs not only Firefox but the crash reporter... so, it nicely sidesteps the issue we are discussing anyway. My point was that Mozille did not start out as the polished product you download today. I do not recall a crash reporter being a part of the install back then. In fact, the install consisted of unzipping to a some directory. K -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point was that Mozille did not start out as the polished product you download today. I do not recall a crash reporter being a part of the install back then. In fact, the install consisted of unzipping to a some directory. Yeah, well, bugzilla didn't exist then, either, and it was much quicker and easier to submit bugs than it is now. I know because I submitted one myself back then. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Adding/changing browser helper applications in N8*0
Does anyone know how to change the helper applications in Firefox on the N810 ? On my desktop, it's gotten slightly messy since Netsscape 2 but Firefox still reads standard /etc/mailcap and ~/.mailcap and uses those, even if it does have an XML/RDF file in preferences.. On the tablet, strace shows the browser reading these files but it ignores the contents. I found it reading /etc/gnome/defaults.list. If I add an entry to use mplayer, it doesn't work. However, if I copy /usr/share/applications/hildon/mplayer.desktop to /usr/share/applications/hildon/hildon-mplayer.desktop, then the browser will start mplayer with the graphical interface. But it doesn't have open the file or URL. On my desktop, I had been playing with streaming and playlists; to get this to work, I had to create a script to parse video/quicktime files to see if they were playlists (with an RTSP URL), or actual media - they have the same MIME type. Other types such as MPEG and MP3 usually have a different MIME type for the playlist or redirector, so I can launch mplayer directly: video/x-mpegurl;mplayer -playlist %s; video/x-ms-wvx;mplayer -playlist %s; video/x-ms-wmv;mplayer %s video/x-msvideo;mplayer %s etc. I'm not sure such a thing would even work on the tablet; it looks like all helpers have to be fully hildonized so an intermediate script will not work. (mplayer is more efficient than Nokia's media player - it will play larger formats without skipping, and it has more codecs so will play some AVIs and MPEGs that the Nokia one won't) - is there Plugger or equivalent for the tablets ? Generally I find it easier to use helpers from a link as often pages with embedded objects assume you have the standard Windows plugin with some particular size, interface etc. but on occasion Plugger has worked for me. The other thing I had wanted to do was run different profiles - one for connecting via a cellphone (no images), and one via WiFi. And maybe one via open WiFi (tunnel though SSH to a proxy elsewhere) as I do on my laptop. But browser -P does not work. I found /home/user/.browser which I might be able to tweak to change the image settings. Proxy settings are tweakable via about:config though I haven't got an equivalent to profile changing yet. Andrew Daviel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Hacker Edition (was Re: Is OS2006 still supported?)
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Current way is not ideal from the beginning. Each hacker edition so far was done without any public progress or discussion. So far the community role was mostly asking about progress with no answer, waiting, and later reporting bugs in garage tracker after some release appeared. I agree the setting was not ideal but it was the best we could get in order to deliver a HE in practical terms. The result of the exercise is all in all acceptable, according to the feedback received. I wouldn't say that: each HE may have been acceptable in and of itself, but the people waiting on it have been beholden to Nokia investing in it - which was obviously not in Nokia's strategic interest, or 770 support wouldn't have been dropped in the first place. My personal opinion (and I insist in the personal bit) is that a requisite to continue any Hacker Edition model is to have the community hackers not only involved but driving. Agreed. But Nokia need to do some more work to make this viable. As I outline in my maemo.org: what next? post[1], I'm afraid you can't get this for free. The community *could* maintain the Hacker Editions, but currently the level of work involved would be too great to make it worthwhile. For example (and I've not tried any of this myself, since I no longer have a 770, so please forgive any errors): * How can the community create an easy to install FIASCO image? * How can the community easily recompile large numbers of source packages from Maemo 3.x and 4.x with 770-compatible optimisations? * Are the changes which were necessary to build the existing HEs integrated upstream; is the series of patches applyable and maintainable over a given codebase? * Is it clear which bits of an N800 firmware image need to be extracted and reused wholesale, and which bits of an existing 770 firmware image need to copied verbatim as they are binary blobs? * Can the kernel be updated and still maintain user-expected functionality such as wifi, BT and power management? * If all the above is possible, can the community actually redistribute the images in compliance with the click-through EULA on ITOS firmware downloads, which prohibits redistribution? As I said, I don't know that these are the right questions, however I'd like to think of myself as fairly up-to-speed on maemo hacking and these are the ones that have literally just come off the top of my head without much thought. The community maintaining the Hacker Editions is perfect; especially since post-Diablo there's no guarantee that the N800 will be getting updates (Elephanta etc) and so there may be two devices the community want to support. BUT - and it's a big and important but - I think Nokia need to be more open on how they've built the HEs to date. Otherwise the community will be doing a whole load of work from scratch, which is never particularly high on open source developers' minds (IMHO). What does this mean in practice? We have discussed in several threads. Time to agree on things and document in a more structured manner? May sounds like a good month to draw the lines of a potential common plan. Please drive. We at Nokia will help knowing more about the stones in the way and the possibilities to remove them. First step, I think, is for people to be able to take the os2007on770 project from garage (is there an os2008on770 project?) and build their own firmware images from taking 770 binary blobs, N800 source code and os2007on770 patches. Until this is possible AND easy, the community just won't get involved. Once we're at that point, we can look at how to progress it. Unfortunately, getting there for this first step (AIUI) is entirely under Nokia's control. Perhaps it'd be different if the target device was the (presumably) more popular N800 and more geeks had to scratch that itch, personally. (Please don't consider this a reason to drop N800 support prematurely! ;-)) Hope that helps, Andrew [1] http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/04/20/maemo_org_what_next -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Online Status of Contacts Invisible after OS2008 Update on Week-old N810
After updating OS2008 via apt-get dist-upgrade (on a week-old N810), I no longer see the online status of my contacts. Not in Speed Contacts applets and not in Contacts, either. My contacts still see MY online status on the N810 just fine—and we can chat as before. However, I no longer see the green (online), red (offline), or white question mark-on-blue (not authorized) balls next to the names of my contacts. I though that perhaps the software update (OS and many of the apps pre-installed) compromised the icons used to show online status, but the list at Contacts - Online remains empty, even when some of my contacts definitely are online. The problem occurs both with GTalk and (non-Google) Jabber accounts. See http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19490 for some illustrating screenshots. Ideas? Thanks, Thorsten (Linux expert, N810 newbie) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008, Jonathan Markevich wrote: Why should it be so different? Isn't it nice to be a hobby developer and be listed up there with the big boys? For hobby developers it would be nice. Most of the time it would imply not being a hobby developer as well as the only way to keep up with numerous bug reports is to spend a significant amount of time on bug tracking. For most developers this means it has to be a way to generate income as well as there will not be time left for an income generating job... All a user is trying to do is keep the water out of the boat, not figure out the oceanography that caused the rock to puncture it. All the developer asks is to spend a little of your time to help solve the problem. Have you ever released open source software? And tried to keep up with the feedback, continue developing the software, fix bugs, earn a living doing something else and still have a life? And chewing out at a user like that gives a pretty clear message of the importance of the user(s). I'll grant you the observation some developers are pretty rude to the users. However, don't forget a number of users are at least as rude by demanding a developer spends his/her time to fix/change whatever bugs that user. And once you get a significant number of those demands (yes, demands, not requests) you need to have saint like qualities in order to stay polite all of the time. Bugzilla appears to be useful. Any bug tracking system is essential. It's just not a user tool, it's a developer tool. It's complex and frightening, and indeed, rather user hostile. It's even hostile to (some) developers. However, given the number of installations used by open source projects it seems to be the only kid on the block. Respect goes two ways. Blowing off users is a bad move. Using the program IS contributing to it. It tends to create a network of users, spreading the word is important and attracts potential developers. Using a program is not contributing. Helping other users where needed, filing bug reports, writing how-to's and documentation is. IMHO (oh oh, short and all caps, can't be good) No no, the developer can't be in an ivory tower. If he uses a bug tracker in the background or not, I don't need to know or care. The developer needs to be *there*. The forum posts are sometimes as good as fully fledged bug reports. They may still solicit bug submissions, but likely the user might have already have done what he could. Given your messages on this subject it seems you've never been on the open source developers side of the fence. I've been there and I'm a user of (open source) software as well so I know both sides fairly well. As a user it bugs me when software does not do what it should according to the documentation. It bugs me when I report a bug and it does not get solved. (It bugs me even more when it happens with commercial software as I'm out of both money and time) However for a developer, when the software you release becomes a success and is used by a fair amount of users there is no way to keep up with all the messages generated. Reading and answering messages in mail and interacting on forums consumes most if not all the time available. Then development stalls and no bugs get fixed. A developer simply has a limitted amount of time available and needs to make choices. For successfull projects that's where a community works. Users share hints, tips and solutions and help a developer by trying to pin point a bug. So while one user might not be able to provide more details, some of them working together might very well find clues very helpfull to pin point the problem. (Which it seems is what happened for the gpe contact import issue as well) As a user it is good to keep in mind you always have the choice not to use the software. If it does not do what you want and/or need you're free to look elsewhere or check later to see if things have improved. As a non paying user of software one certainly does not have the right to demand anything. One may _request_, however as you're asking someone a favor you might be better of by humouring them when they request you do something. Be it entering a bug report, provide additional information or perform some tests. (Yes, developers fixing bugs are doing you a favor, they're spending their valuable time improving software. A developers time is at least as valuable as yours!) Best regards, Jac --- Jac KersingTechnical Consultant The-Box Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] CISSP RHCEhttp://www.the-box.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Screen rotation
Is it possible to rotate the N800 (OS2007) screen 90 degrees, like it was on the old Zaurus? This would be very useful when viewing print-page-shaped PDFs. Even rotating the image in the PDF viewer would be good. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, Mark wrote: Actually, there *is* an armel port of OpenOffice, I'm just not savvy enough to get it installed. Besides, if a full word processor like Abiword can work, it's not much of a stretch. I don't want to create documents, I just want to view PowerPoint. And maybe Word. And maybe**2 Excel. Not all in one huge app. For when I'm at a multi-stream conference and want to review the slides to figure out which session to attend. Anything that does that ? Come to think of it, I don't need it actually in the tablet. Some service that converted it to PDF online would be great (Google's HTML version of PowerPoint is I guess part of their indexing process and doesn't seem to preserve the layout/graphics particularly well). -- Andrew Daviel, TRIUMF, Canada ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 05:15:38PM -0700, Andrew Daviel wrote: I don't want to create documents, I just want to view PowerPoint. And maybe Word. And maybe**2 Excel. Not all in one huge app. For when I'm at I'd love to be able to run office apps on my tablet, but might it not just be easier in situations like the above to use vnc or similar to connect to a desktop machine that can run these apps and viewers? K -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
Kevin T. Neely wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 05:15:38PM -0700, Andrew Daviel wrote: I don't want to create documents, I just want to view PowerPoint. And maybe Word. And maybe**2 Excel. Not all in one huge app. For when I'm at I'd love to be able to run office apps on my tablet, but might it not just be easier in situations like the above to use vnc or similar to connect to a desktop machine that can run these apps and viewers? K Not if the tablet is all you have with you, or a desktop machine with the requisite apps isn't available or connectable via wireless, or you simply *can't* take a larger machine with you, and the list goes on and on. When I bought my tablet, I really was hoping it would be more of a laptop replacement than it is turning out to be. After all, it's more powerful than my previous desktop, and it did all that stuff. With my SDHC cards installed, the tablet even has almost as much storage. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
