Re: Hacker Edition (was Re: Is OS2006 still supported?)
Hi, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My personal opinion (and I insist in the personal bit) is that a requisite to continue any Hacker Edition model is to have the community hackers not only involved but driving. Agreed. But Nokia need to do some more work to make this viable. As I outline in my maemo.org: what next? post[1], I'm afraid you can't get this for free. The community *could* maintain the Hacker Editions, but currently the level of work involved would be too great to make it worthwhile. For example (and I've not tried any of this myself, since I no longer have a 770, so please forgive any errors): * How can the community create an easy to install FIASCO image? * How can the community easily recompile large numbers of source packages from Maemo 3.x and 4.x with 770-compatible optimisations? * Are the changes which were necessary to build the existing HEs integrated upstream; is the series of patches applyable and maintainable over a given codebase? * Is it clear which bits of an N800 firmware image need to be extracted and reused wholesale, and which bits of an existing 770 firmware image need to copied verbatim as they are binary blobs? * Can the kernel be updated and still maintain user-expected functionality such as wifi, BT and power management? * If all the above is possible, can the community actually redistribute the images in compliance with the click-through EULA on ITOS firmware downloads, which prohibits redistribution? And: * Which of the 3rd party binary blobs (flashplayer[1], fonts etc) in the newer release would require users to buy extra licensees to legally use it on another product. And for which they can actually do this [1] For example, you need to buy a license for using Flashplayer on an embedded device: Usage of Adobe Web Players is only permitted for supported platforms; usage rights on non-PC devices or embedded systems are not granted by this license. see: http://www.adobe.com/licensing/distribution/ A few years ago the minimum number of licensees was 1000: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4552853449.html The current Flashplayer and other binary blobs may have similar restrictions. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Hacker Edition (was Re: Is OS2006 still supported?)
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:43:59AM +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My personal opinion (and I insist in the personal bit) is that a requisite to continue any Hacker Edition model is to have the community hackers not only involved but driving. Agreed. But Nokia need to do some more work to make this viable. As I outline in my maemo.org: what next? post[1], I'm afraid you can't get this for free. The community *could* maintain the Hacker Editions, but currently the level of work involved would be too great to make it worthwhile. For example (and I've not tried any of this myself, since I no longer have a 770, so please forgive any errors): * How can the community create an easy to install FIASCO image? * How can the community easily recompile large numbers of source packages from Maemo 3.x and 4.x with 770-compatible optimisations? * Are the changes which were necessary to build the existing HEs integrated upstream; is the series of patches applyable and maintainable over a given codebase? * Is it clear which bits of an N800 firmware image need to be extracted and reused wholesale, and which bits of an existing 770 firmware image need to copied verbatim as they are binary blobs? * Can the kernel be updated and still maintain user-expected functionality such as wifi, BT and power management? * If all the above is possible, can the community actually redistribute the images in compliance with the click-through EULA on ITOS firmware downloads, which prohibits redistribution? And: * Which of the 3rd party binary blobs (flashplayer[1], fonts etc) in the newer release would require users to buy extra licensees to legally use it on another product. And for which they can actually do this [1] For example, you need to buy a license for using Flashplayer on an embedded device: Usage of Adobe Web Players is only permitted for supported platforms; usage rights on non-PC devices or embedded systems are not granted by this license. see: http://www.adobe.com/licensing/distribution/ It's not clear whether the n800 is an embedded device. It's very similar to some of the hard-disk-free laptops that are appearing these days, except for form factor. -- hendrik ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Screen rotation
Nothing official yet, but you can start reading this for the unofficial method: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17842highlight= Not that this is not an endorsement. I haven't tried it myself yet. HTH On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Peter Flynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to rotate the N800 (OS2007) screen 90 degrees, like it was on the old Zaurus? This would be very useful when viewing print-page-shaped PDFs. Even rotating the image in the PDF viewer would be good. -- GROG! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Hacker Edition (was Re: Is OS2006 still supported?)
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 07:49:54AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:43:59AM +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My personal opinion (and I insist in the personal bit) is that a requisite to continue any Hacker Edition model is to have the community hackers not only involved but driving. Agreed. But Nokia need to do some more work to make this viable. As I outline in my maemo.org: what next? post[1], I'm afraid you can't get this for free. The community *could* maintain the Hacker Editions, but currently the level of work involved would be too great to make it worthwhile. For example (and I've not tried any of this myself, since I no longer have a 770, so please forgive any errors): * How can the community create an easy to install FIASCO image? * How can the community easily recompile large numbers of source packages from Maemo 3.x and 4.x with 770-compatible optimisations? * Are the changes which were necessary to build the existing HEs integrated upstream; is the series of patches applyable and maintainable over a given codebase? * Is it clear which bits of an N800 firmware image need to be extracted and reused wholesale, and which bits of an existing 770 firmware image need to copied verbatim as they are binary blobs? * Can the kernel be updated and still maintain user-expected functionality such as wifi, BT and power management? * If all the above is possible, can the community actually redistribute the images in compliance with the click-through EULA on ITOS firmware downloads, which prohibits redistribution? And: * Which of the 3rd party binary blobs (flashplayer[1], fonts etc) in the newer release would require users to buy extra licensees to legally use it on another product. And for which they can actually do this [1] For example, you need to buy a license for using Flashplayer on an embedded device: Usage of Adobe Web Players is only permitted for supported platforms; usage rights on non-PC devices or embedded systems are not granted by this license. see: http://www.adobe.com/licensing/distribution/ It's not clear whether the n800 is an embedded device. It's very similar to some of the hard-disk-free laptops that are appearing these days, except for form factor. Although the exact nature of the tablets is certainly up for debate, it looks like Adobe has done a pretty decent job of excluding the tablets. Licensee may not distribute, download or embed the Software on any non-PC device or with any embedded or device version of any operating system. For the avoidance of doubt, and by example only, Licensee may not distribute the Software for use on any (A) mobile devices, set top boxes (STB), handhelds, phones, web pads, tablets and Tablet PCs (that are not running Windows XP or Windows Vista Tablet PC Edition), Going (very briefly, and using w3m to do so) through their licensing information, it looks like they take an inclusive approach to the platforms. If it is not explcitly included, then it is not covered by the license. The above exclusions appear to be examples for mobile products that are not included. That licensing will certainly cause some inconsistency with licensing as convergent devices are released. The thinkpad tablet running full ubuntu comes to mind. I am sure you can download and run the linux flash player, but you may unwittingly be in violation of the license. Another funny quirk of licensing is Apple's recent only for devices with an Apple logo specification. Can you slap a sticker on the device and say it is logo'd? Probably not, but a strict reading of the license language might support that. In any case, this certainly demonstrates we cannot simply blame Nokia as some people seem to want to do. There are many factors to this problem. I have my 770 sitting around. I'm thinking of using Canola to turn it into a web-enabled picture frame. I would love to extend its usefulness with a hacker edition, or I would install something compeltely different on it (android, maybe? Or something from that Poky platform builder?), but it certainly plays second fiddle to my 800. K -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 09:15:07PM -0600, Mark Haury wrote: Kevin T. Neely wrote: I'd love to be able to run office apps on my tablet, but might it not just be easier in situations like the above to use vnc or similar to connect to a desktop machine that can run these apps and viewers? Not if the tablet is all you have with you, or a desktop machine with the requisite apps isn't available or connectable via wireless, or you simply *can't* take a larger machine with you, and the list goes on and on. When I bought my tablet, I really was hoping it would be more of a laptop I assume that the tablet has internet connectivity, b/c you mentioned dl'ing the presentations on the fly. In any case, it can almost always be connected through your phone. The other assumption is to leave home or office workstation on, with VNC server (or equivalent) running. Every windows machine (since XP) has remote desktop built-in, so that is also an option. With that running, just have the appropriate ports forwarded on the router to the machine. Perhaps not the ideal solution, but should be implementable (is that a word) for just about anyone. And, in any case, is easier than fooling around with office for the tablet and worrying about its ability to convert a 12meg powerpoint or complex spreadhsheet. K -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Hacker Edition (was Re: Is OS2006 still supported?)
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although the exact nature of the tablets is certainly up for debate, it looks like Adobe has done a pretty decent job of excluding the tablets. Licensee may not distribute, download or embed the Software on any non-PC device or with any embedded or device version of any operating system. For the avoidance of doubt, and by example only, Licensee may not distribute the Software for use on any (A) mobile devices, set top boxes (STB), handhelds, phones, web pads, tablets and Tablet PCs (that are not running Windows XP or Windows Vista Tablet PC Edition), Going (very briefly, and using w3m to do so) through their licensing information, it looks like they take an inclusive approach to the platforms. If it is not explcitly included, then it is not covered by the license. The above exclusions appear to be examples for mobile products that are not included. That licensing will certainly cause some inconsistency with licensing as convergent devices are released. The thinkpad tablet running full ubuntu comes to mind. I am sure you can download and run the linux flash player, but you may unwittingly be in violation of the license. Another funny quirk of licensing is Apple's recent only for devices with an Apple logo specification. Can you slap a sticker on the device and say it is logo'd? Probably not, but a strict reading of the license language might support that. In any case, this certainly demonstrates we cannot simply blame Nokia as some people seem to want to do. snip On the contrary, this is a perfect example of *exactly* why only Nokia can reasonably deal with this kind of issue. An individual hacker/developer isn't going to get anywhere with Adobe, but Nokia could certainly solve the problem. They did it for the N8x0, so it shouldn't be an issue to get that extended to the 770. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Screen rotation
This post seems to indicate a more straightforward way of going about it. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=174543#post174543 I'm more inclined to try this one out myself. On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:12 AM, GROG! (Jeff Howie) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nothing official yet, but you can start reading this for the unofficial method: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17842highlight= Not that this is not an endorsement. I haven't tried it myself yet. HTH On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Peter Flynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to rotate the N800 (OS2007) screen 90 degrees, like it was on the old Zaurus? This would be very useful when viewing print-page-shaped PDFs. Even rotating the image in the PDF viewer would be good. The file links seemed to be broken, but you can find them, as well as more detail, here: http://sse2.net/rotate/ -- GROG! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 09:15:07PM -0600, Mark Haury wrote: Kevin T. Neely wrote: I'd love to be able to run office apps on my tablet, but might it not just be easier in situations like the above to use vnc or similar to connect to a desktop machine that can run these apps and viewers? Not if the tablet is all you have with you, or a desktop machine with the requisite apps isn't available or connectable via wireless, or you simply *can't* take a larger machine with you, and the list goes on and on. When I bought my tablet, I really was hoping it would be more of a laptop I assume that the tablet has internet connectivity, b/c you mentioned dl'ing the presentations on the fly. That wasn't me. I more often take the files with me, and occasionally copy directly from somebody else's drive (with them present, of course). In any case, it can almost always be connected through your phone. Uh, no, my phone doesn't have bluetooth (or a camera), and at any rate, I don't have a data plan. Can't afford it, don't need it, refuse to pay by the outlandish prices for that access as compared to any other form of Internet access. GSM data, at least in the USA, is not the least bit attractive. You have to pay a monthly premium, plus per-MB charges. Meanwhile, free Wi-Fi is ubiquitous in most metro areas, where the need for urgent Internet access is most likely to occur, and it's way faster than any form of wireless phone network based data access. And no, I don't txt or IM. If I really wanted/needed to, I could send a txt message for ten cents, but it's free (for both me and the recipient) and a whole lot more effective to either voice call or leave a voicemail if something is really urgent. Txt messages always incur charges for anyone who doesn't pay extra for the service, regardless of whether you are sending or receiving. My sister cost me some bucks in a short period before I was able to make it clear to her that even though it wasn't costing her extra (meaning above the extra it was *already* costing her for adding that service above the basic plan), it was costing me just to read her messages. There's no way to txt without it costing you something. I will *never* understand the popularity of txt or IM. The only purpose of texting is for incredibly rude and/or irresponsible people who should have their attention on something else. IM is an extremely poor substitute for a voice call. Either one is *far* less efficient than voice. The other assumption is to leave home or office workstation on, with VNC server (or equivalent) running. Every windows machine (since XP) has remote desktop built-in, so that is also an option. With that running, just have the appropriate ports forwarded on the router to the machine. Harder than it sounds, and a _whole_ lot less reliable. If you take the files with you in the first place, network access is irrelevant. Perhaps not the ideal solution, Definitely not. but should be implementable (is that a word) for just about anyone. Nope. Not even close. And, in any case, is easier than fooling around with office for the tablet and worrying about its ability to convert a 12meg powerpoint or complex spreadhsheet. Wrong again. I have yet to have a recent version of OOo choke on any Word, Excel, or Powerpoint file I've thrown at it, or even screw up the formatting. That makes it - and offline files - by far the most effective solution. Until the entire planet is covered by affordable (or free) broadband wireless access (via satellite?), there is only one ironclad guarantee of getting your work done: Take it with you - both the files and the apps. People who work in the computer, communications, or other high-tech fields easily forget that the overwhelming majority of people don't have even a tiny portion of the network access that they do, especially people who don't have a lot of money. It's not just that they can't afford it; the availability just isn't there. That doesn't mean they don't have computers or work to do. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:22:08PM -0600, Mark wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 09:15:07PM -0600, Mark Haury wrote: Kevin T. Neely wrote: I'd love to be able to run office apps on my tablet, but might it not just be easier in situations like the above to use vnc or similar to connect to a desktop machine that can run these apps and viewers? Not if the tablet is all you have with you, or a desktop machine with the requisite apps isn't available or connectable via wireless, or you simply *can't* take a larger machine with you, and the list goes on and on. When I bought my tablet, I really was hoping it would be more of a laptop per-MB charges. Meanwhile, free Wi-Fi is ubiquitous in most metro areas, where the need for urgent Internet access is most likely to occur, and it's way faster than any form of wireless phone network Great! then we can assume wireless access, and will snip the rest off snip but should be implementable (is that a word) for just about anyone. Nope. Not even close. Guess I need a better word then. Still. VNC server is basically install, choose a port, and forward that port on the router. That is pretty much a point-and-click procedure. It may take a bit of playing around, but will be nowhere near as difficult as fiddling with beta versions of OO tablet edition. Wrong again. I have yet to have a recent version of OOo choke on any Word, Excel, or Powerpoint file I've thrown at it, or even screw up I am sure that OO (if it were implemented) on a tablet would choke on complex docs. And the main point is that it is not currently on the tablet, so this is an in-the-meantime solution that is not difficult and may actually be useful. But, I came up with a second solution. I think you'll like this one: From the original post, I did not realize you had access to the files ahead of time. If you have that, you can use OO.org to convert to pdf and then use evicne on the tablet to view them. voila! still, not ideal, but I suspect OO tablet edition is quite a ways off. good luck! K -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Screen rotation
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:35:33AM +0100, Peter Flynn wrote: Is it possible to rotate the N800 (OS2007) screen 90 degrees, like it was on the old Zaurus? This would be very useful when viewing print-page-shaped PDFs. Even rotating the image in the PDF viewer would be good. I believe the free PDF viewer Evince (which I've seen ported to one of the tablets, once) supports rotation. Marius Gedminas -- I once asked an older coworker and Solaris guru what happened with the Unix-haters list. He told me that it stopped being quite so funny once Windows NT came along. -- the gnat at slashdot signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Online Status of Contacts Invisible after OS2008 Update on Week-old N810
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 05:34:10PM -0400, Thorsten wrote: After updating OS2008 via apt-get dist-upgrade (on a week-old N810), I no longer see the online status of my contacts. Not in Speed Contacts applets and not in Contacts, either. Ouch. The reason apt-get work so well in Debian is that they have a single well-maintained repository. In Maemo world we still have a little bit of a mess, although there's push to move all 3rd-party packages into Maemo Extras instead of having them scattered in a multitude of potentially-conflicting 3rd party repositories. Anyway, apt-get upgrade/dist-upgrade is more dangerous on a N8x0 than on a typical Linux box. It all depends on what repositories you have configured and what packages you upgrade. Upgrading 3rd-party packages is safe; upgrading core system libraries is not (for example, upgrading the 'busybox' package with the version from the SDK repository will render your tablet unable to boot). Currently it is impossible to upgrade the base OS via apt-get (although I believe that will become possible in future OS versions), because many of the OS packages are not available from any apt repository -- they're only distributed in the OS image file. I cannot say if your problem is caused by upgrading a system package with some incompatible version, or by installing a broken 3rd-party package. My contacts still see MY online status on the N810 just fine—and we can chat as before. However, I no longer see the green (online), red (offline), or white question mark-on-blue (not authorized) balls next to the names of my contacts. I though that perhaps the software update (OS and many of the apps pre-installed) compromised the icons used to show online status, but the list at Contacts - Online remains empty, even when some of my contacts definitely are online. The problem occurs both with GTalk and (non-Google) Jabber accounts. See http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19490 for some illustrating screenshots. Ideas? The 100% guaranteed way: 1. Make a backup with the built-in backup app 2. Reflash the OS image 3. Restore from backup and reinstall all 3rd party apps you had installed The more interesting way: * Try to figure out which package update caused the problem * Try to downgrade it, if you can find the older version * Actually, I've no idea how to investigate and solve the problem. Regards, Marius Gedminas -- Some of the more environmentally aware dinosaurs were worried about the consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor. If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive... they said. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
Well just to remind you that the N770 used to run Abiword and Gnumerics. So you could have Office apps in maemo. The biggest reason why OOo cant be is basically they relly on X as opposed to framebuffer. On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:22:08PM -0600, Mark wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 09:15:07PM -0600, Mark Haury wrote: Kevin T. Neely wrote: I'd love to be able to run office apps on my tablet, but might it not just be easier in situations like the above to use vnc or similar to connect to a desktop machine that can run these apps and viewers? Not if the tablet is all you have with you, or a desktop machine with the requisite apps isn't available or connectable via wireless, or you simply *can't* take a larger machine with you, and the list goes on and on. When I bought my tablet, I really was hoping it would be more of a laptop per-MB charges. Meanwhile, free Wi-Fi is ubiquitous in most metro areas, where the need for urgent Internet access is most likely to occur, and it's way faster than any form of wireless phone network Great! then we can assume wireless access, and will snip the rest off snip but should be implementable (is that a word) for just about anyone. Nope. Not even close. Guess I need a better word then. Still. VNC server is basically install, choose a port, and forward that port on the router. That is pretty much a point-and-click procedure. It may take a bit of playing around, but will be nowhere near as difficult as fiddling with beta versions of OO tablet edition. Wrong again. I have yet to have a recent version of OOo choke on any Word, Excel, or Powerpoint file I've thrown at it, or even screw up I am sure that OO (if it were implemented) on a tablet would choke on complex docs. And the main point is that it is not currently on the tablet, so this is an in-the-meantime solution that is not difficult and may actually be useful. But, I came up with a second solution. I think you'll like this one: From the original post, I did not realize you had access to the files ahead of time. If you have that, you can use OO.org to convert to pdf and then use evicne on the tablet to view them. voila! still, not ideal, but I suspect OO tablet edition is quite a ways off. good luck! K -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIEjA8E+4TUALb7FERArG2AJ9PYMHbtqpOTDRcQYXYYD1VV6yaXgCfYgGK 7ZU4Sz4ZvOfNlHFqRlYbaEs= =6uW0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Kahlil Johnson Ya tengo GMAIL!! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
Get a free logmein.com account on one your desktop and leave it on or in a mode that can be awoken from the internet. Then, anywhere in the world you've got internet access, with the tablet browser (or any other computer with a browser), log into logmein.com and access your desktop. Caveate : so long as you've got secure login setup and are in a reasonably secure wifi node, it's a reasonably secure connection. There may be some modest security issues on an open public wifi hot spot populated by the wrong crowd. You can view (and take action on) most any program and file you have on your laptop within your tablet browser. Fine print -- Editing is a modest hassle on the n800. With the n810, or tablet with keyboard, remote editing is easy. There are some modest limits on refresh time and perhaps color depth, as I recall. To be able to easily transfer and print files between a remote and home computer, logmein.com offers a modestly affordable monthly service. Always, Fred C Andrew Daviel wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, Mark wrote: Actually, there *is* an armel port of OpenOffice, I'm just not savvy enough to get it installed. Besides, if a full word processor like Abiword can work, it's not much of a stretch. I don't want to create documents, I just want to view PowerPoint. And maybe Word. And maybe**2 Excel. Not all in one huge app. For when I'm at a multi-stream conference and want to review the slides to figure out which session to attend. Anything that does that ? Come to think of it, I don't need it actually in the tablet. Some service that converted it to PDF online would be great (Google's HTML version of PowerPoint is I guess part of their indexing process and doesn't seem to preserve the layout/graphics particularly well). ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: per-MB charges. Meanwhile, free Wi-Fi is ubiquitous in most metro areas, where the need for urgent Internet access is most likely to occur, and it's way faster than any form of wireless phone network Great! then we can assume wireless access, and will snip the rest off No, we can't! That's the point! Often there is no wireless access in the time and place where the document needs to be *edited* or created, not simply viewed. If I need to download something, then I can usuall go somewhere else long enough to do that, because whatever prompted the need to do the download was due to either Internet or cell phone access in the first place, which implies a metro area. Most of the time, both the files and apps need to be on the device itself. What does it take to get that point through? but should be implementable (is that a word) for just about anyone. Nope. Not even close. Guess I need a better word then. Still. VNC server is basically install, choose a port, and forward that port on the router. That is pretty much a point-and-click procedure. It may take a bit of playing around, but will be nowhere near as difficult as fiddling with beta versions of OO tablet edition. If I'm at a meeting, and need to work with documents at that meeting, and there's no possibility of Internet access at the meeting location (*usually* the case for me), then *no* network-based application will work. Again, the only bulletproof solution is to have both the apps and the files on the device. Wrong again. I have yet to have a recent version of OOo choke on any Word, Excel, or Powerpoint file I've thrown at it, or even screw up I am sure that OO (if it were implemented) on a tablet would choke on complex docs. And the main point is that it is not currently on the tablet, so this is an in-the-meantime solution that is not difficult and may actually be useful. Not when it's a straight-across port, not a stripped down complete rewrite. And it exists, but I'm not capable of repackaging the armel files to ITOS2008 install debs. But, I came up with a second solution. I think you'll like this one: From the original post, I did not realize you had access to the files ahead of time. If you have that, you can use OO.org to convert to pdf and then use evicne on the tablet to view them. voila! That's fine if all you need to do is view them. I need to be able to edit them. And create new ones from scratch. And in general, manipulate them in exactly the same ways that I would on my desktop. On paper, the eee PC has very little more horsepower, no advantage in storage (because the N800 has two full-sized SD slots instead of the one in the eee PC), and actually has less versatility, because it doesn't have bluetooth or a touch screen and is a lot less portable. And yet, it has a full version of OOo. If I had known how little of the potential of the N800 was being realized, I would have opted for the eee PC instead. I actually was hoping to get both, but because of a boatload of unexpected expenses in the last few months can't possibly swing the eee PC now, and probably not for a very long time. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Screen rotation
GROG! (Jeff Howie) wrote: This post seems to indicate a more straightforward way of going about it. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=174543#post174543 On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:12 AM, GROG! (Jeff Howie) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nothing official yet, but you can start reading this for the unofficial method: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17842highlight= Not that this is not an endorsement. I haven't tried it myself yet. HTH On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Peter Flynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to rotate the N800 (OS2007) screen 90 degrees, like it was on the old Zaurus? Thanks for all the input. However, these all appear to be for OS2008, and after the recent discussions I had already decided to stick with OS2007, as I use my N800 as a business tool rather than a development platform. Maybe in a few years when I can afford to upgrade it to a Nxxx ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenOffice (was Bluetooth keyboard?)
Mark wrote: No, we can't! That's the point! Often there is no wireless access in the time and place where the document needs to be *edited* or created, not simply viewed. If there is cell phone access, and your cell phone has internet access, it seems you ought to be able to connect to the net via bluetooth with your internet tablet. Or so I've been led to believe, having not tried it. Perhaps when the tablet wimax option shows up any problems accessing the net will go away. With internet access of some sort, you can access your desktop with your tablet via something like logmein.com's free service. (You'll need to set up a free account at home on your desktop and leave your desktop on so you can access it remotely). With logmein, you can open and manipulate (aka edit) most any file on your desktop remotely from anywhere in the world you've got internet access. To be able to print and share files easily between tablet and desktop, logmein offers a modestly priced monthly service which many find useful. A couple caveat's are security at public wifi hot spots might be marginal. Also, it's somewhat clumsy typing things on the n800 without an external keyboard of some sort. Should be no problem on the n810. Finally, there are modest limits on screen transfer speed and perhaps color depth. (aka, don't expect to play games remotely)... FYI, this works well enough for me to access the appointment book, patient files and xrays remotely to deal with emergency calls. Access takes around a minute or so. My bookkeeper uses logmein via her home computer to connect at work to do a lot of her bookkeeping and payroll stuff. It's kind of wierd to see the screen on her computer at the office balancing the check book, writing checks and what not without anyone at the work station. Also, this means you can use a linux based tablet to run and edit Windows files with ease... If you absolutely need to edit files locally without wifi, and want pretty decent compact portable computing power perhaps you ought to get yourself a eee pc (4G or larger). The 9 sceen is coming soon, 7 units with webcam are nice. (same size profile for both). It comes with full OpenOffice and keyboard on Xandros or Ubuntu linux's and an option to load XP. Plus if you've got wifi, it's got video Skype and/or perhaps Gizmo Project. It's also got video out that could feed a computer screen/projector. On the downside, the eee pc is a bit too large for a pocket like the tablets. It's about 1/3 the size of the average laptop -- fits in a small purse, briefcase, or bun pack just fine. Just don't expect it to operate as a wifi phone sitting in your pocket like the tablets, listen to Mp3s sitting in your pocket, no bluetooth without a USB dongle, nor can you easily sit and poke around files on an eee pc without a table like you can with the tablet. Battery life isn't anywhere near as good as the tablets. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I might note here a bit about the purposes of different communication medias around internet tablets and maemo as I've understood them. * maemo-developers: forum to discuss the *open source* maemo-platform development * maemo-users: forum for developers to discuss how to use the maemo-platform (i.e. application developers) * Forum Nokia: commercial developer support * ITT forum: end user stuff If this is correct maybe there should be an end user stuff mailing list? I find the ITT forum totally useless. I does not remember what you have read properly or it marks things you have not read as read and it is extremely slow. -- /Tommy Persson ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I might note here a bit about the purposes of different communication medias around internet tablets and maemo as I've understood them. * maemo-developers: forum to discuss the *open source* maemo-platform development * maemo-users: forum for developers to discuss how to use the maemo-platform (i.e. application developers) * Forum Nokia: commercial developer support * ITT forum: end user stuff I submit that this is counter-intuitive at best, and misnaming at its worst. If maemo-users is for application developers, it should be named maemo-app-developers or maemo-application-dev or something similar. Using the word users implies that it is for users, not developers. Forums are painful for end users. They're fine as an archive for searches on old issues, but to get timely help on a new issue they are almost as bad as bugzilla. This is further proof of a very decided bias for developers and against end users. That attitude is a very poor business model. It's why Openmoko will probably never get off the ground with a consumer product, and ultimately will die an ugly death. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, Once again talking about the hobby developer... ext Jac Kersing wrote: However for a developer, when the software you release becomes a success and is used by a fair amount of users there is no way to keep up with all the messages generated. Reading and answering messages in mail and interacting on forums consumes most if not all the time available. Then development stalls and no bugs get fixed. A developer simply has a limitted amount of time available and needs to make choices. For example when your spouse is once again commenting on your "other, non-paid job" and how it takes time away from your kids, you might not have that much patience with users demands which are unreasonable (to you). If you need to select between your kid vs. a rude user, the decision is really a no-brainer. - Eero There are a couple of issues here regarding "hobby developers". 1. It's becoming clear that part of the problem is that software is being released as public release or even "stable beta" that is really very much alpha. If you're releasing software that is riddled with bugs (or simply insufficient functionality) to a wide audience then yes, you're going to get a lot of questions and complaints. The answer is to keep it quiet until it's ready for the average (clueless) end-user. 2. If it's just a hobby, why are you releasing your software to the public? If you're only doing it for yourself, then keep it to yourself. If you're doing it for others, then you have to accept the fact that they may find serious problems or find that it lacks functionality that is critically important to them. And yes, anyone who tries your software most certainly *is* doing you a favor, *especially* if they find a problem of any sort. You either want others to benefit from your work, or you don't. If you don't, then don't make it available. If you do, then every single person who tries it is spreading the word. If the software works well and meets their needs, then they'll spread the word and the user base will grow. If the software has problems or significant limitations, but they were well treated and got the help they needed, then they will still spread positive word and the user base will grow. If they ask a question or present an account of a problem and get treated poorly (or ignored), they will either not tell anybody else about it or will spread negative word, and the user base will grow very little or not at all and your feedback will dry up. It's up to you. As I've made it abundantly clear, Linux is still a long way from meeting all my needs. And yet, here I am, doing my best to do everything possible within Linux. It is *not* easy. In fact is is very hard. If I wanted easy, I would just stick with Windows, put more money in Micro$oft's - and other closed-source companies' - pockets, and never have the inconvenience of booting into another OS or have a very significant amount of hard drive space taken up by that other OS. Sure, there would be the occasional crash or problem, but in general things in Windows just work. So why am I spending way too much of my time learning and dealing with the problems and inadequacies of Linux? Because I believe in the concept, and I believe in the goals. I'm trying to get to the point where I can evangelize others to the cause. I want to do whatever I can, and am stretching my limited skills and learning new things every day, in order to further the cause in any way that I can. Not because it's easy, convenient or makes my life any easier. Maybe someday I'll reach the point of being a developer myself, and maybe a won't. But one thing I will never forget is what it's like to be on this side of the coin. The bottom line is that yes, I most certainly *am* doing you a favor by spending my time with this, even if I run out of patience sometimes or ask a dumb question from time to time. And we're really on the same side, even if you can't see it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Apr 25, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Mark wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I might note here a bit about the purposes of different communication medias around internet tablets and maemo as I've understood them. * maemo-developers: forum to discuss the *open source* maemo-platform development * maemo-users: forum for developers to discuss how to use the maemo-platform (i.e. application developers) * Forum Nokia: commercial developer support * ITT forum: end user stuff I submit that this is counter-intuitive at best, and misnaming at its worst. If maemo-users is for application developers, it should be named maemo-app-developers or maemo-application-dev or something similar. Using the word users implies that it is for users, not developers. No, because maemo is the application development platform. So the users of maemo are developers (think iphonesdk-users). maemo- developers is for people working on developing the development platform, maemo-users is for developers using that platform. It's only confusing because the community started using maemo to also apply to Internet Tablet OS. A mailing list for end users would be something along the lines of internet-tablet-os-users, itos-users, or similar. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: gpe contacts import
On Apr 25, 2008, at 11:04 PM, Mark Haury wrote: Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, Once again talking about the hobby developer... ext Jac Kersing wrote: However for a developer, when the software you release becomes a success and is used by a fair amount of users there is no way to keep up with all the messages generated. Reading and answering messages in mail and interacting on forums consumes most if not all the time available. Then development stalls and no bugs get fixed. A developer simply has a limitted amount of time available and needs to make choices. For example when your spouse is once again commenting on your other, non-paid job and how it takes time away from your kids, you might not have that much patience with users demands which are unreasonable (to you). If you need to select between your kid vs. a rude user, the decision is really a no-brainer. - Eero 1. It's becoming clear that part of the problem is that software is being released as public release or even stable beta that is really very much alpha. If you're releasing software that is riddled with bugs (or simply insufficient functionality) to a wide audience then yes, you're going to get a lot of questions and complaints. The answer is to keep it quiet until it's ready for the average (clueless) end-user. That goes against the a very important open source philosophy: Release early, release often! 2. If it's just a hobby, why are you releasing your software to the public? Because this is how open source works. If you're only doing it for yourself, then keep it to yourself. If you're doing it for others, then you have to accept the fact that they may find serious problems or find that it lacks functionality that is critically important to them. Because open source software can benefit others without you actively dealing with end user's and their overwhelming sense of entitlement. I, for one, am very happy that the GPE folks decided to provide the community with their software. And yes, anyone who tries your software most certainly *is* doing you a favor, *especially* if they find a problem of any sort. You either want others to benefit from your work, or you don't. If you don't, then don't make it available. The world isn't this black and white. The bottom line is that yes, I most certainly *am* doing you a favor by spending my time with this, even if I run out of patience sometimes or ask a dumb question from time to time. And we're really on the same side, even if you can't see it. The unpleasant tone you started out with would seem to suggest otherwise. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
