Re: Wiki Page on Navigation Tools for Maemo
Hi I am also trying to use Navit on my tablet but I have still some questions : - GUI The GTK one wotkw well but internal although promising is a bit disappointing ! How initiate a roure from that GUI ? The menu you can invoke have items that - either do not work - or seems to work but do not record the preferences for instance - Routing I have not succeeded to initiate a route : either specifying a location as destination or trying the destination window does not work As for the XML file, I find it very useful and clear ! DC Christoph Eckert a écrit : Hi, http://wiki.maemo.org/Navigation_Tools concerning Navit, it automatically routes if it has a gps fix and a destination. A destination can either be set by pressing on the map and selecting set as destination from the appearing context menu, or via the address search. Navit looks promising, but it requires some extra coding for the tablets still. Editing the XML file is not acceptable for the average user, but this theoretically could be solved by providing an adjusted config file via the nightly builds. However, someone then needs to keep the default and the adjusted config file in sync. Or the nightly build must do some sed magic. The mailing lists are pretty useless, but the main communication channel for navit is on IRC. You will find the core hackers there as well as some users. HTH, ce ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
BRisa Release 0.10.0
Hi list, I'm pleased to announce the release of python-brisa version 0.10.0. This version contains a lot of improvements and optimizations. Thanks to all developers who helped us for this release. Website: http://brisa.garage.maemo.org/ Development: http://garage.maemo.org/projects/brisa/ Download: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=138 Mailing list: https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/brisa-discuss/ What is python-brisa? Python-brisa is a UPnP framework written in Python provided under MIT License. It contains facilities for building UPnP devices, services and control points. Features: * Integration with Qt, Gtk, Glib2 and Ecore * Simple but powerful API for writing devices, services and control points * Complete UPnP device architecture implementation (SSDP, SOAP, MSearch, Eventing (GENA)) * Network transport and API facilities (UDP, TCP, HTTP, XML, IP and network interfaces) * DIDL/DLNA * Facilities for logging, configurations, threading, application management Multiplatform == Being a pure python solution, python-brisa is supposed to run on every platform that enables python. It's been tested with both Python 2.5 and Python 2.6 versions. We would really appreciate community feedback, bug reports and feature requests concerning attempts to run it on other platforms. In this release, we have to highlight our step further on multiplatform compliance: a WSGI (Web Server Gateway Interface). The python-brisa framework requires a webserver and we have provided this feature through WSGI. We have implemented adapters for Cherrypy, Circuits and Python-Paste WSGI servers, but this is easily extended to any other WSGI servers. Requirements === - Python 2.5.x, Python 2.5.x-dev (or 2.6) - http://www.python.org One of the following: - Python-Cherrypy (= 3.1.1) - http://www.cherrypy.org - Circuits - http://trac.softcircuit.com.au/circuits/ - Python-paste http://pythonpaste.org/ Contact === Our developers are usually at our official channel on freenode. * IRC Channel: #brisa @ irc.freenode.net * Mailing List: https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/brisa-discuss/ Feel free to provide feedbacks, ask questions and so on. Tasks of the release === * Implemented WSGI server adapters for cherrypy, circuits.web and paste * Webserver is now WSGI with pluggable server adapters * Implemented ServiceBuilder that builds the service object from a scpd.xml * Implemented two ways of creating a service: with a scpd.xml file or by specifying service parameters through code - and the framework generates the scpd.xml * Reactor infrastructure added * Webserver is not a singleton anymore * Arrangement for device abstracts the user from a lot of things, such as the webserver * Implemented Gtk2Reactor, Glib2Reactor, EcoreReactor, SelectReactor (default) * Plugin architecture refactored * Log messages are a bit more cleaner now. Most log messages were for debug purposes, so, changed most of them to DEBUG. INFO level now should be only used for informing the user high-level events, such as New device, Device is gone, Publishing device, and so on. * Control point objects are now reusable. They can now be stopped, and started again. * Closure procedure is now chained. Some classes (such as ssdp msearch) now have these 3 methods: start(), stop(), destroy(). start() - starts the class, stop() - stops the class, but it can be start()'ed again later and destroy() - stops the class DEFINITELY, clean references to help with garbage collection, makes the class unusable. For a clearer view, take a look at upnp/control_point/control_point.py. You will notice that these three methods are chained. * Device webserver publishing is now chained and transparent to the user. Added some options to BRisa for customizing device/service build (these options have default values for making everything work, automatic as possible) * Packages created: - core: framework core stuff - core.reactors: reactors implementations - upnp.control_point: API for writing control points - upnp.device: API for writing devices - upnp.services: general services implemented by us (ConnectionManager, ContentDirectory) - upnp.services.xmls: XML folder for the services of the item above * Removed lots of threads: most are now integrated with the main loop (fd's and sleeps) * Implemented UPnP eventing API on the device side * Removed deprecated modules: utils.sqlite, threading * Packages moves (from - to): - utils.network - core.network - utils.network_listeners - core.network_listeners - utils.network_senders - core.network_senders - utils.system - core.system - utils.failure - core.failure - threading.threaded_call - core.threaded_call - log - core.log - config -
FYI
http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-full-pull-out-qwerty-keyboard-810/q/loc/101/206228943.html?adid=17070dcaid=17070 ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Good deal for N810 @ buy.com - Re: FYI
Corrected subject ;) On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Valentin Chopovval...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-full-pull-out-qwerty-keyboard-810/q/loc/101/206228943.html?adid=17070dcaid=17070 ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
N810 for $180
FYI, Buy.com has the n810 for $180. Which is another way of saying, the end of the n810 series is near... It's still a great little unit, as is the n800. Wouldn't take a trip without it. Always, Fred Chittenden ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Good deal for N810 @ buy.com - Re: FYI
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Valentin Chopovval...@gmail.com wrote: Corrected subject ;) On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Valentin Chopovval...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-full-pull-out-qwerty-keyboard-810/q/loc/101/206228943.html?adid=17070dcaid=17070 ...provided you're still interested in an orphaned product... (Sorry, folks, but as great as the Maemo community is, it's far from the same thing as support from the original manufacturer.) The recent developments on Maemo and statements by Nokia clearly indicate that not only does Nokia have no intention of ever making the ITs a commercially viable product (and never did), but they also have the same attitude toward all future Maemo devices. They'll continue throwing out the hardware and hoping there will be enough early adopters and *unpaid* open-source developers to keep taking the bait and giving them money and making their devices useable. I was cautious enough to avoid the OpenMoko trap because their device was clearly not ready for prime time, but I made the mistake of believing that a 3rd generation Maemo device meant that Nokia was serious about their devices. Lesson learned... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Good deal for N810 @ buy.com - Re: FYI
Hello Mark, You have a valid point, but what I know as a matter of fact that Nokia has developers working on Maemo and they are paid developers, I still agree with you that they are not that many and no lots of applications are out from them but I see that is normal because that is the target group of such a device GEEKS so, we buy it to work on it and pay Nokia in sense of time Regards Samer On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Valentin Chopovval...@gmail.com wrote: Corrected subject ;) On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Valentin Chopovval...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-full-pull-out-qwerty-keyboard-810/q/loc/101/206228943.html?adid=17070dcaid=17070 ...provided you're still interested in an orphaned product... (Sorry, folks, but as great as the Maemo community is, it's far from the same thing as support from the original manufacturer.) The recent developments on Maemo and statements by Nokia clearly indicate that not only does Nokia have no intention of ever making the ITs a commercially viable product (and never did), but they also have the same attitude toward all future Maemo devices. They'll continue throwing out the hardware and hoping there will be enough early adopters and *unpaid* open-source developers to keep taking the bait and giving them money and making their devices useable. I was cautious enough to avoid the OpenMoko trap because their device was clearly not ready for prime time, but I made the mistake of believing that a 3rd generation Maemo device meant that Nokia was serious about their devices. Lesson learned... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- __ http://geek2live.blogspot.com/ http://www.siteheed.com - You pick the level of your suffering yourself - Budha- - There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man. The true nobility is in being superior to your previous self.-- Hindu proverb - Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.-Abraham Lincoln - Live Free or Die-Kernel The Canine- - Without music, life would be a mistake.- Nietzsche - He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is more than a king.-- John Milton - The best portion of a good man's life is the little, nameless,unremembered acts of kindness and love.-- William Wordsworth (1770-1850) English poet -- - The higher type of man clings to virtue, the lower type of man clings to material comfort. The higher type of man cherishes justice, the lower type of man cherishes the hope of favors to be received.-- Confucius (551-479 BC) Chinese Philosopher ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
Lake Stevens Dental wrote: FYI, Buy.com has the n810 for $180. Which is another way of saying, the end of the n810 series is near... It's still a great little unit, as is the n800. What's the replacement for the N810? My N800 is still going fine, but if I was in the market for a new equivalent, what's the model, and are there any nasty gotchas? ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Peter Flynnpeter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Lake Stevens Dental wrote: FYI, Buy.com has the n810 for $180. Which is another way of saying, the end of the n810 series is near... It's still a great little unit, as is the n800. What's the replacement for the N810? My N800 is still going fine, but if I was in the market for a new equivalent, what's the model, and are there any nasty gotchas? ///Peter There is none. From the details they've given thus far, the next generation of Maemo devices are going to be completely different than the current tablets, with incompatible hardware therefore software/OS. They also won't be out for probably at least another year. R.I.P. Internet Tablets... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On 15 Jun 2009, at 21:41, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Peter Flynnpeter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Lake Stevens Dental wrote: FYI, Buy.com has the n810 for $180. Which is another way of saying, the end of the n810 series is near... It's still a great little unit, as is the n800. What's the replacement for the N810? My N800 is still going fine, but if I was in the market for a new equivalent, what's the model, and are there any nasty gotchas? ///Peter There is none. From the details they've given thus far, the next generation of Maemo devices are going to be completely different than the current tablets, with incompatible hardware therefore software/OS. They also won't be out for probably at least another year. Another year? What is this based on?From the information that is currently available your 'guess' seem way off to me. R.I.P. Internet Tablets... Mark Regards, Jamie. -- http://www.linuxuk.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jamie Bennettja...@linuxuk.org wrote: On 15 Jun 2009, at 21:41, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Peter Flynnpeter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Lake Stevens Dental wrote: FYI, Buy.com has the n810 for $180. Which is another way of saying, the end of the n810 series is near... It's still a great little unit, as is the n800. What's the replacement for the N810? My N800 is still going fine, but if I was in the market for a new equivalent, what's the model, and are there any nasty gotchas? ///Peter There is none. From the details they've given thus far, the next generation of Maemo devices are going to be completely different than the current tablets, with incompatible hardware therefore software/OS. They also won't be out for probably at least another year. Another year? What is this based on?From the information that is currently available your 'guess' seem way off to me. R.I.P. Internet Tablets... Mark Regards, Jamie. If you have something better, let's have it. Otherwise, people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. My guess is based on posts to this list from people directly employed by Nokia. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
Am Montag, den 15.06.2009, 15:00 -0600 schrieb Mark: Another year? What is this based on?From the information that is currently available your 'guess' seem way off to me. If you have something better, let's have it. Otherwise, people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. My guess is based on posts to this list from people directly employed by Nokia. Please provide references (URLs). The mailing list archives are public: https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo Thanks. andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On 15 Jun 2009, at 22:00, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jamie Bennettja...@linuxuk.org wrote: On 15 Jun 2009, at 21:41, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Peter Flynnpeter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Lake Stevens Dental wrote: FYI, Buy.com has the n810 for $180. Which is another way of saying, the end of the n810 series is near... It's still a great little unit, as is the n800. What's the replacement for the N810? My N800 is still going fine, but if I was in the market for a new equivalent, what's the model, and are there any nasty gotchas? ///Peter There is none. From the details they've given thus far, the next generation of Maemo devices are going to be completely different than the current tablets, with incompatible hardware therefore software/ OS. They also won't be out for probably at least another year. Another year? What is this based on?From the information that is currently available your 'guess' seem way off to me. R.I.P. Internet Tablets... Mark Regards, Jamie. If you have something better, let's have it. Otherwise, people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. Not sure where both your tone and the use of that quote fits in with anything being said on this thread. My guess is based on posts to this list from people directly employed by Nokia. I must of missed where 'Nokia Employees' hinted at June next year. I base my guess on a _beta_ SDK in practical feature freeze, an October summit with high levels of device information expectations, various community projects maturing on the Fremantle SDK and the fact that Nokia employees have been working on the new device for quite some time now. Why would Nokia announce at OSiM last year a device that wouldn't be available for 20+ months later? It's not in their interests to have a device development in public that long. Also why would they effectivly freeze the new software a year before it is released? Doesn't make sense does it. Mark Regards, Jamie -- http://www.linuxuk.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Wiki Page on Navigation Tools for Maemo
Hi Courtaud, Am Montag, 15. Juni 2009 schrieb COURTAUD Didier: Hi I am also trying to use Navit on my tablet but I have still some questions : - GUI The GTK one wotkw well but internal although promising is a bit disappointing ! Interesting. I had more trouble with the GTK interface and liked the internal one. How initiate a roure from that GUI ? I assume you mean a route? You need to set a position and a destination. You can click the map and then in the menu select actions and then you can use the world icon to use the location you clicked at. The menu you can invoke have items that - either do not work - or seems to work but do not record the preferences for instance Do you have examples? - Routing I have not succeeded to initiate a route : either specifying a location as destination or trying the destination window does not work see above. Rainer As for the XML file, I find it very useful and clear ! DC Christoph Eckert a écrit : Hi, http://wiki.maemo.org/Navigation_Tools concerning Navit, it automatically routes if it has a gps fix and a destination. A destination can either be set by pressing on the map and selecting set as destination from the appearing context menu, or via the address search. Navit looks promising, but it requires some extra coding for the tablets still. Editing the XML file is not acceptable for the average user, but this theoretically could be solved by providing an adjusted config file via the nightly builds. However, someone then needs to keep the default and the adjusted config file in sync. Or the nightly build must do some sed magic. The mailing lists are pretty useless, but the main communication channel for navit is on IRC. You will find the core hackers there as well as some users. HTH, ce ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Rainer Dorsch Lärchenstr. 6 D-72135 Dettenhausen 07157-734133 email: rdor...@web.de jabber: rdor...@jabber.org GPG Fingerprint: 5966 C54C 2B3C 42CC 1F4F 8F59 E3A8 C538 7519 141E Full GPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Jamie Bennettja...@linuxuk.org wrote: I must of missed where 'Nokia Employees' hinted at June next year. Apparently so... I base my guess on a _beta_ SDK in practical feature freeze, an October summit with high levels of device information expectations, various community projects maturing on the Fremantle SDK and the fact that Nokia employees have been working on the new device for quite some time now. OK, so you're saying that a beta SDK means impending device release? Doesn't seem likely to me... Why would Nokia announce at OSiM last year a device that wouldn't be available for 20+ months later? For the same reason that OpenMoko announced a device to be released in 2007 that _still_ doesn't exist... It's not in their interests to have a device development in public that long. Also why would they effectivly freeze the new software a year before it is released? Doesn't make sense does it. They aren't freezing the software, they're freezing the *development environment* that is needed to create the software. What part of that do you not understand? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Jamie Bennettja...@linuxuk.org wrote: I must of missed where 'Nokia Employees' hinted at June next year. Apparently so... I base my guess on a _beta_ SDK in practical feature freeze, an October summit with high levels of device information expectations, various community projects maturing on the Fremantle SDK and the fact that Nokia employees have been working on the new device for quite some time now. OK, so you're saying that a beta SDK means impending device release? Doesn't seem likely to me... Why would Nokia announce at OSiM last year a device that wouldn't be available for 20+ months later? For the same reason that OpenMoko announced a device to be released in 2007 that _still_ doesn't exist... Funny, so I have a non-existent OpenMoko[1] device :) [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner Best, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org It's not in their interests to have a device development in public that long. Also why would they effectivly freeze the new software a year before it is released? Doesn't make sense does it. They aren't freezing the software, they're freezing the *development environment* that is needed to create the software. What part of that do you not understand? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On 15 Jun 2009, at 22:30, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Jamie Bennettja...@linuxuk.org wrote: I must of missed where 'Nokia Employees' hinted at June next year. Apparently so... Care to share some links? I base my guess on a _beta_ SDK in practical feature freeze, an October summit with high levels of device information expectations, various community projects maturing on the Fremantle SDK and the fact that Nokia employees have been working on the new device for quite some time now. OK, so you're saying that a beta SDK means impending device release? Doesn't seem likely to me... Why would Nokia announce at OSiM last year a device that wouldn't be available for 20+ months later? For the same reason that OpenMoko announced a device to be released in 2007 that _still_ doesn't exist... I don't think you can compare OpenMoko to Nokia. It's not in their interests to have a device development in public that long. Also why would they effectivly freeze the new software a year before it is released? Doesn't make sense does it. They aren't freezing the software, they're freezing the *development environment* that is needed to create the software. Effectivly freezing what third-party developers, which Nokia rely heailu on for these devices, can do with the API's. What part of that do you not understand? Why such juvenile comments are on this list? Mark Regards, Jamie -- http://www.linuxuk.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Valerio Valeriovdv...@gmail.com wrote: Funny, so I have a non-existent OpenMoko[1] device :) [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner Best, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org Yes, you do, in the sense that they still have a long way to go before the OS is even to the state of that of the N770. It's a developer's plaything, not a serious, usable device. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
Note that the Palm Pre came out before the SDK was even readily available. I'm not sure the SDK is a good metric. Also, most of Mark's arguments tend toward the Internet Tablet is not ready for end users. Taking that as a fact (for sake of argument) then the freezing of the SDK would be the best time to release a device. K On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Jamie Bennettja...@linuxuk.org wrote: OK, so you're saying that a beta SDK means impending device release? Doesn't seem likely to me... -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Jamie Bennettja...@linuxuk.org wrote: I don't think you can compare OpenMoko to Nokia. Not until now, but they're headed that direction fast. They aren't freezing the software, they're freezing the *development environment* that is needed to create the software. Effectively freezing what third-party developers, which Nokia rely heavily on for these devices, can do with the API's. Exactly. A device, even with a complete OS, that has no usable apps is not releasable. Not even OpenMoko was that removed from reality. Their OS is still far from finished (actually never will be, as they're moving to other OSes now), but at least at this point there are some useful apps. ...And that's on a device that once they finally admitted the fact have been very strenuously and repeatedly been saying is *not* ready for anybody but developers. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: Note that the Palm Pre came out before the SDK was even readily available. I'm not sure the SDK is a good metric. Also, most of Mark's arguments tend toward the Internet Tablet is not ready for end users. Taking that as a fact (for sake of argument) then the freezing of the SDK would be the best time to release a device. K You're comparing apples with oranges. The Palm Pre already has a complete PIM etc. as well as a suite of other finished apps right out of the box, and is intended specifically for consumers, not developers. Therefore, it will sell and is useful right out of the box. That is in sharp contrast to a device that needs to have a stable SDK well before its release in order to generate hype with the developers who will be buying it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: Note that the Palm Pre came out before the SDK was even readily available. I'm not sure the SDK is a good metric. You're comparing apples with oranges. The Palm Pre already has a complete PIM etc. as well as a suite of other finished apps right out of the box, and is intended specifically for consumers, not developers. Therefore, it will sell and is useful right out of the box. That is in sharp contrast to a device that needs to have a stable SDK well before its release in order to generate hype with the developers who will be buying it. I'm doing nothing of the kind. I took your metric: the SDK and simply compared the two of them. Also, Mark is once again doing his famous argument which is bring up one thing and then ignore it later. He says the IT is not for the end user and only for developers, then complains that it does not have a mature and robust PIM system (something I have yet to be convinced that it needs, but that is another discussion). You can place one in the 'cons' column, but not both. No double-dipping allowed! K -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Default Contact Application
Is there a way to change the default Contact application from the built in one to something else, in this case I am trying out GPE Contacts? While here, can you somehow change the default application for any need? By default I would look to the Filemanager, but it does not appear to be able fill the demand, either does the control panel. Thanks Sean ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: I'm doing nothing of the kind. I took your metric: the SDK and simply compared the two of them. You certainly are: I'm not using the SDK as a metric, Jamie is. I was discounting that as a reliable metric. Also, Mark is once again doing his famous argument which is bring up one thing and then ignore it later. He says the IT is not for the end user and only for developers, then complains that it does not have a mature and robust PIM system (something I have yet to be convinced that it needs, but that is another discussion). Once again, you totally misunderstand and misrepresent my arguments. What I'm saying is that the ITs are marketed to anybody who will buy them, including clueless consumers. (Buy.com is a huge consumer-oriented site, not an obscure company catering to developers...) But Nokia treats them like developer's toys, and doesn't support them the way they should. Nokia is the one that is speaking with forked tongue. I bought my N800 because I took the bait and thought it was a consumer-level device because of everything I saw in the sales material. I was duped. I like my tablet, but it's turned out to be nothing but a toy. It can do lots of neat things, but in every area it falls just short of fulfilling its potential: it can display moving maps, but can't actually navigate; it can do PIM-like things (after installing third-party apps), but can't easily and reliably sync all of that data; it can do basic text files, but the shipped app uses a proprietary format and it can't open or edit any actual office documents; it can be a media player, but is limited as to the formats and especially video resolution/bitrates (it can't even do native screen resolution, only a quarter of screen resolution); the list goes on and on... Maybe *you* are never offline, but anybody who needs offline access to their complete contact database/schedule/etc. *does* need a PIM. And who wants to carry around multiple devices when one is enough? You can place one in the 'cons' column, but not both. No double-dipping allowed! K I give up. You people and your straw-man arguments will never be convinced. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
Mark wrote: What's the replacement for the N810? There is none. From the details they've given thus far, the next generation of Maemo devices are going to be completely different than the current tablets, with incompatible hardware therefore software/OS. I don't care if they are different inside and run a different OS (assuming they are still Unix-based and not Microsoft :-) What I want is a pocket computer the approximate size and weight of the N800 which does the same stuff, but a bit faster and a bit higher rez and more flexible memory/disk. Once again, you totally misunderstand and misrepresent my arguments. What I'm saying is that the ITs are marketed to anybody who will buy them, including clueless consumers. (Buy.com is a huge consumer-oriented site, not an obscure company catering to developers...) But Nokia treats them like developer's toys, and doesn't support them the way they should. Nokia is the one that is speaking with forked tongue. I think that's too harsh. I just think Nokia's management was badly misled by Marketing into believing that ITs were a viable concept. Perhaps they were for a brief time. What they missed was the vastly bigger market for pocket computers. I bought my N800 because I took the bait and thought it was a consumer-level device because of everything I saw in the sales material. I was duped. I'm sorry to hear that, but caveat emptor. I'm afraid that after 30 years in IT I never believe a word of the sales material, even if it's written by the engineers (the only people you can actually trust). I like my tablet, but it's turned out to be nothing but a toy. It can do lots of neat things, but in every area it falls just short of fulfilling its potential: I think you said you have an N810. I can't compare directly because I have an N800, and I've never even seen an N810 (and unlikely to here [Ireland] because Nokia just closed down their local store, and they had never seen an N800 until I brought mine in to show them). it can display moving maps, but can't actually navigate; I never expected mine to do that anyway. I knew it was theoretically possible, but the processor is wy too slow for mapping apps, the BT-connected satellite receivers are way too expensive, and the data quality of the free maps, even OpenStreetMap, is hopelessly inadequate. I have a perfectly-working TomTom, anyway. it can do PIM-like things (after installing third-party apps), I've already described elsewhere the errors made in selecting that particular set of built-ins. But the GPE apps are adequate, although no more than that (the authors need some more experience with usability criteria). but can't easily and reliably sync all of that data; I don't keep my PIM data anywhere else but the N800 (and backup) so that isn't an issue for me. In nearly three decades of using pocket devices I have never needed or wanted to synch the PIM data with anything else. it can do basic text files, It wouldn't be worth using if it didn't. but the shipped app uses a proprietary format and it can't open or edit any actual office documents; Same answer as for PIMs: the shipped apps were worthless. AbiWord provides all this and more. It's not the world's most wonderful interface, and it's got bits missing, but it's fine to open and save all the formats I have fed it so far. it can be a media player, but is limited as to the formats and especially video resolution/bitrates (it can't even do native screen resolution, only a quarter of screen resolution); With Andrew Flegg's tablet-encode script I have plenty of perfectly working pr0^H^H^Hmovies (enough for two transatlantic flights and two long car/train journeys and a couple of boring hotel evenings) within the limits of whatever brain-dead DRM it can work around. Plus I can do my email, news, blog, tweet, chat, manage my servers, run Emacs and Saxon and XSLT and LaTeX, wordprocess, spreadsheet, Skype, Gizmo, and that's about all I need right now. Maybe *you* are never offline, but anybody who needs offline access to their complete contact database/schedule/etc. *does* need a PIM. And who wants to carry around multiple devices when one is enough? I just carry the whole damn lot on the N800. Online or offline, I'm sorted. But I'm lucky -- I don't have to share my calendar with others (and I would refuse to do so if asked, anyway). I give up. You people and your straw-man arguments will never be convinced. The tension seems to be between developers, who want a toy they can hone their skills on, and users, who just want a computer that works. These are two separate products. So maybe I should have been more precise in my original question: Is there (or will there be soon) a pocket computer from some manufacturer (not necessarily Nokia) running a Unix-type OS of some description (not necessarily Maemo) that is broadly speaking a suitable replacement device for
Re: Default Contact Application
sean wrote: Is there a way to change the default Contact application from the built in one to something else, in this case I am trying out GPE Contacts? I don't think it's possible, but I have a dim recollection of someone posting a long time ago to say it *was* possible, just difficult. While here, can you somehow change the default application for any need? I wish. By default I would look to the Filemanager, but it does not appear to be able fill the demand, either does the control panel. FileManager as shipped is brain-dead. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
En/na Peter Flynn ha escrit: So maybe I should have been more precise in my original question: Is there (or will there be soon) a pocket computer from some manufacturer (not necessarily Nokia) running a Unix-type OS of some description (not necessarily Maemo) that is broadly speaking a suitable replacement device for an N800/N810 user wanting an upgrade? I'm not sure it's more powerful than the n800 but it seems nice: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27433 Bye -- Luca ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 for $180
Peter Flynn wrote: Mark wrote: What's the replacement for the N810? There is none. From the details they've given thus far, the next generation of Maemo devices are going to be completely different than the current tablets, with incompatible hardware therefore software/OS. I don't care if they are different inside and run a different OS (assuming they are still Unix-based and not Microsoft :-) What I want is a pocket computer the approximate size and weight of the N800 which does the same stuff, but a bit faster and a bit higher rez and more flexible memory/disk. From what they were saying, they are not going to be *anything* like the current tablets: the form factor is going to be different, and they may even be phones. Don't hold your breath for an updated tablet. Once again, you totally misunderstand and misrepresent my arguments. What I'm saying is that the ITs are marketed to anybody who will buy them, including clueless consumers. (Buy.com is a huge consumer-oriented site, not an obscure company catering to developers...) But Nokia treats them like developer's toys, and doesn't support them the way they should. Nokia is the one that is speaking with forked tongue. I think that's too harsh. I just think Nokia's management was badly misled by Marketing into believing that ITs were a viable concept. Perhaps they were for a brief time. What they missed was the vastly bigger market for pocket computers. That's been my point all along. I bought my N800 because I took the bait and thought it was a consumer-level device because of everything I saw in the sales material. I was duped. I'm sorry to hear that, but caveat emptor. I'm afraid that after 30 years in IT I never believe a word of the sales material, even if it's written by the engineers (the only people you can actually trust). Nokia was for me a trusted name. It's a sad world when you can't trust *anybody*... :-( I like my tablet, but it's turned out to be nothing but a toy. It can do lots of neat things, but in every area it falls just short of fulfilling its potential: I think you said you have an N810. I can't compare directly because I have an N800, and I've never even seen an N810 (and unlikely to here [Ireland] because Nokia just closed down their local store, and they had never seen an N800 until I brought mine in to show them). No, I have an N800. The compromises the N810 made in order to add the keyboard are all showstoppers for me. Unfortunately, I think the upcoming devices are going to be even less what I want. it can display moving maps, but can't actually navigate; I never expected mine to do that anyway. I knew it was theoretically possible, but the processor is wy too slow for mapping apps, the BT-connected satellite receivers are way too expensive, and the data quality of the free maps, even OpenStreetMap, is hopelessly inadequate. I have a perfectly-working TomTom, anyway. Not true. Most dedicated GPSrs have much less powerful hardware than even the N770, and the mapping applications available for the tablets do just fine, they just aren't finished. it can do PIM-like things (after installing third-party apps), I've already described elsewhere the errors made in selecting that particular set of built-ins. But the GPE apps are adequate, although no more than that (the authors need some more experience with usability criteria). I'm using GPE myself, but I've spent 6 months trying to fix the botched data import. There's just no way to reliably import data or specify corresponding data fields. but can't easily and reliably sync all of that data; I don't keep my PIM data anywhere else but the N800 (and backup) so that isn't an issue for me. In nearly three decades of using pocket devices I have never needed or wanted to synch the PIM data with anything else. I have always needed to sync, import and export the PIM data for various mailing lists, etc. Keeping completely separate databases is a huge pain in the keester to manually keep everything in sync. it can do basic text files, It wouldn't be worth using if it didn't. Leafpad is a great replacement for the built-in text editor. but the shipped app uses a proprietary format and it can't open or edit any actual office documents; Same answer as for PIMs: the shipped apps were worthless. AbiWord provides all this and more. It's not the world's most wonderful interface, and it's got bits missing, but it's fine to open and save all the formats I have fed it so far. I have yet to get Abiword to import or export Word or OpenOffice files; all I get is garbage. That's true not only on the tablet but in the desktop versions. Years ago when I first tried Abiword it was much better at that than it is now. Their insistence on using their own unique file format, together
Re: Default Contact Application
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Peter Flynnpeter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: sean wrote: Is there a way to change the default Contact application from the built in one to something else, in this case I am trying out GPE Contacts? I don't think it's possible, but I have a dim recollection of someone posting a long time ago to say it *was* possible, just difficult. While here, can you somehow change the default application for any need? I vaguely remember some talk about mime-types and being able to specify apps to open different types of files, but don't know the details or have that particular need myself. I don't think the default apps can be changed because it's hardcoded into the OS. I'm really fuzzy on that stuff, though. You might want to search the Internet Tablet Talk forums. There's some really good stuff on there, and the Maemo wiki as well. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Default Contact Application
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Markwolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Peter Flynnpeter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: sean wrote: Is there a way to change the default Contact application from the built in one to something else, in this case I am trying out GPE Contacts? I don't think it's possible, but I have a dim recollection of someone posting a long time ago to say it *was* possible, just difficult. While here, can you somehow change the default application for any need? I vaguely remember some talk about mime-types and being able to specify apps to open different types of files, but don't know the details or have that particular need myself. I don't think the default apps can be changed because it's hardcoded into the OS. I'm really fuzzy on that stuff, though. You might want to search the Internet Tablet Talk forums. There's some really good stuff on there, and the Maemo wiki as well. Mark I wasn't very clear: what I meant to say was that IIRC the built-in apps can't be defeated as the defaults for their particular actions, but there may be hope for some types of files that aren't already associated with the as-shipped apps. Or maybe they all can be changed. Surely someone knows. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
