Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Petteri]

Jan Knutar kirjoitti ti 23. helmikuuta 2010 23:58:39:
> On Tuesday 23 February 2010, Paul Hartman wrote:
> 
> > Is Nokia Energy Profiler available for N900? It is an excellent tool
> > on Symbian. Powertop just doesn't convey all of the same information
> > (mW usage or whatever).
> 
> Nokia Energy Profile has been spotted in screenshots from
> pre-production firmwares, but it was nowhere to be seen on production
> N900. Even powertop has vanished, though binaries are floating around
> in the forums (the lesswatts.org powertop gives less info).

My N900 has /sbin/powertop , you have to be root to run it.

- Petteri

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Re: Getting started with a 770, tips?

[chombee]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 06:05:16PM -0500, Jake Wasdin wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:50:57 +
> chombee  wrote:
> When I was on OS2007 I used Minimo for most stuff (I recommended this
> before for OS2006, but I know it works on OS2007 as I used it!). You
> may want to see if you have better results with it, as I did for sure:
> 

Unfortunately the link to the install file is broken. I think the links
browser in a terminal might work quite well though, I may give that a
try. I've never heard of 'graphical links'.

> For PDF Evince is pretty nice, but I don't know if it has the features
> you need: 

I installed evince, but when I opened a book the entire OS came grinding
to a halt. I think evince is designed for desktop computers and laptops,
and was taking way too much memory. I'm not that bothered, PDFs suck
anyway!

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Re: Getting started with a 770, tips?

[Jake Wasdin]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:50:57 +
chombee  wrote:


I have a couple of software suggestions for non-N770 specific stuff...

> 
> The web browser just about works but it's very slow. Turning off
> display of images in webpages helps, but this option seems to
> sometimes enable itself again. It seems best to stay out of the web
> browser as much as you can, as it's a sure way to end up with your
> 770 becoming unresponsive and wasting a lot of your time.
> 

When I was on OS2007 I used Minimo for most stuff (I recommended this
before for OS2006, but I know it works on OS2007 as I used it!). You
may want to see if you have better results with it, as I did for sure:


Another idea is to use graphical links. Since you're familiar with
Linux you might could get this working. I got the browser working on my
own... this would mean no CSS or JS but only HTML and graphics. It was
fairly easy to get working as I recall, but I'm not on OS2007 and it's
been a while. I didn't get it integrated with Maemo very well, but it
was quite usable and very fast. 

> 
> The PDF reader looks alright but there's no way to turn pages in
> fullscreen mode, and if you reopen a PDF it starts from page 1 and
> there's not way to get back to where you left off. I guess it's just
> for viewing PDFs, not really an ebook reader. I might try out
> FBReader as an ebook reader on it, it supports more formats than just
> PDF too. But I'm tempted to run a text mode ebook reader (even just
> less) in a screen session on my server.
> 

fbreader doesn't support PDF... although I have and do use it to read
books in other formats often. See here for the features
... one of my favorite apps
for my IT. For PDF Evince is pretty nice, but I don't know if it has the
features you need: 


All the Best,

Jake Wasdin
blog,  http://jake.wasdin.net/
email, j...@wasdin.net
xmpp,  jewas...@jabber.org

"Love each other as I have loved you" -JC
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Jan Knutar]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010, Paul Hartman wrote:

> Is Nokia Energy Profiler available for N900? It is an excellent tool
> on Symbian. Powertop just doesn't convey all of the same information
> (mW usage or whatever).

Nokia Energy Profile has been spotted in screenshots from pre-production
firmwares, but it was nowhere to be seen on production N900. Even powertop
has vanished, though binaries are floating around in the forums
(the lesswatts.org powertop gives less info).

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/021123.html
> Just had a talk over here about this and the Energy Profiler could come out
> as a closed source app (sorry, opening it looks like a no go, things that
> close to the battery are problematic). Some checks needed, but I'll continue
> bugging people about it."

I guess not even closed NEP was possible as we've heard nothing of it since ;-)
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Dawid Lorenz  wrote:
>
> On 23 February 2010 17:28, Paul Hartman 
> wrote:
>>
>> I haven't noticed anything, and my load average at the moment is 0.00,
>> 0.02, 0.00 which is good, but if I sort by time the top offenders
>> since my last reboot (uptime 1 day, 3:14) are:
>>
>> 5:41 pulseaudio
>> 5:01 bme_RX-51
>> 3:59 Xorg
>> 3:42 as-daemon
>> 3:00 dbus-daemon
>> 2:40 hildon-desktop
>> 2:41 pulseaudio
>> 1:11 pulseaudio
>> 1:08 hildon-status-menu
>> 1:06 mafw-dbus-wrapper
>> 1:02 hildon-home
>
> Which command exactly gets you these stats?

Ultimately the data comes from the /proc/[pid]/stat, and typically I
would use "top" or "ps aux", but N900 (busybox) version of those tools
doesn't include the CPU time. So on N900 I'm using htop which includes
the TIME+ column. Press T (shift-t) in htop to sort by that column.
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Dawid Lorenz]

On 23 February 2010 17:28, Paul Hartman

> wrote:

> I haven't noticed anything, and my load average at the moment is 0.00,
> 0.02, 0.00 which is good, but if I sort by time the top offenders
> since my last reboot (uptime 1 day, 3:14) are:
>
> 5:41 pulseaudio
> 5:01 bme_RX-51
> 3:59 Xorg
> 3:42 as-daemon
> 3:00 dbus-daemon
> 2:40 hildon-desktop
> 2:41 pulseaudio
> 1:11 pulseaudio
> 1:08 hildon-status-menu
> 1:06 mafw-dbus-wrapper
> 1:02 hildon-home
>

Which command exactly gets you these stats?

-- 
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null://there is no place like 127.0.0.1
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Dawid Lorenz]

This is a follow-up from bugzilla entry
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8723#c35 -- as I think it goes beyond
a scope that issue itself.

Eero Tamminen  wrote:

> Anything large (say e.g. Python) waking up on the background will also be an
> issue.  You can check top (or strace) now and then to see whether something
> does stuff on the background (even 1%) although you haven't specifically
>
> requested it to do anything.  If it is, please file a bug.
>
> I've had a look at top over ssh connection and seen /usr/bin/pulseaudio
--system --high-priority constantly floating around 1-3% of CPU time.
Needless to say, device was lying on the desk next to me, doing nothing, not
to mention anything media-related. I did killall media-player but that
didn't help and pulseaudio was still working out.

However I've been listening to music earlier in the morning, took couple of
calls etx. Then later in the day I've opened a camera to take a picture,
which threw weird "Another application is using audio" message at me few
times (while no app that I was aware of was running in the background).
Strange.

I will look closer to this issue and file appropriate bugzilla entry when I
get some concrete observations.


> Closing all browser windows occasionally is also a good idea.  Www-pages &
> Flashplayer can cause Browser to use huge amounts of memory & the dynamic
> nature of that memory usage can make browser memory very fragmented.  Certain
>
> kind of pages (if I've understood correctly, with images animated from JS) can
> still cause it to wake up in the background which causes browser to be swapped
> in, and then out when the foreground app wants to do something (this issue is
>
> even worse in upstream Mozilla/Fennec).  We're trying to get that fixed for
> next release, but it's possible that fix isn't ready in time for that one.
>
>
Browser is serious resource hog. I've noticed that closing all windows
sometimes doesn't help either. As I said earlier in this thread, I was
trying to restart tablet-browser-daemon, but it didn't seem to help much.
Ie. browserd released memory at first, but almost instantly started
regaining "weight" to the point where it roughly was before restart.

Again, I've set swappiness value to 60 yesterday, my N900 has 1d7h of uptime
so far and I am monitoring its behaviour much closer than before. So far so
good, but as I said initially - weird things start happening since approx.
second/third full day of uptime.


-- 
Dawid 'evad' Lorenz * http://adl.pl

null://real men never use Gmail
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QStardict on my N900 does NOT pronounce words

[Alessio Stella]

Hi 

QStardict on my N900 does NOT pronounce words

I have tried to go into settings->PopUp and enabled "Pronounce the word" but it 
didn't work

I have Global->Pronounce..using: espeak

May be espeak is not installed? How to install it? I don't see it as 
installable via Application Manager
And i also don't seem to have aps-get installed..




  
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Paul Hartman]

2010/2/23 Michel Dänzer :
> On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 12:08 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote:
>>
>> My battery seems the same as always. If I don't make any phone calls
>> it lasts around 13 hours at the most (I'm connected to wifi 90% of the
>> time, phone mostly sits idle).
>
> That seems very low. I can easily go for three days between charging,
> and I've gone up to slightly more than 100 hours. I rarely make phone
> calls, but I'm connected to WiFi (and logged into Skype and Jabber
> accounts) at least half the time as well and regularly do package
> installs/upgrades, SMS/IM and general tinkering.

Wow, I think a lot of people are jealous of you. :) I've never seen
anyone with that much battery life except for extreme cases (offline
mode, no usage). Or maybe the only people who complain about battery
life are people with problems and the silent majority have >24 battery
life.

Your usage seems about the same as mine, at least during the work day.
In my case I'm not logged into any IM service, but I do have e-mail
accounts configured including MfE. In the evening I use it more,
surfing the web, updating applications, etc, usually while I'm
watching TV or something. :) But if I don't charge it during the day I
can't do that in the evening because it'll be dead before dinner.

Is Nokia Energy Profiler available for N900? It is an excellent tool
on Symbian. Powertop just doesn't convey all of the same information
(mW usage or whatever).

> When the device is (supposedly) idle, make sure that e.g. htop
> doesn't show any significant CPU usage by any process other than itself
> (and Xorg and osso-xterm, if you're running it on the device display).

I haven't noticed anything, and my load average at the moment is 0.00,
0.02, 0.00 which is good, but if I sort by time the top offenders
since my last reboot (uptime 1 day, 3:14) are:

5:41 pulseaudio
5:01 bme_RX-51
3:59 Xorg
3:42 as-daemon
3:00 dbus-daemon
2:40 hildon-desktop
2:41 pulseaudio
1:11 pulseaudio
1:08 hildon-status-menu
1:06 mafw-dbus-wrapper
1:02 hildon-home

rest are under 1:00.

I used the music player with headphones for 20 minutes this morning,
and had a 5 minute call yesterday, maybe that explains the pulseaudio
numbers.

bme_RX-51 is battery monitoring service. I don't know if it uses CPU
when I'm charging, perhaps?

I believe as-daemon is MfE, so it seems it's doing a lot of work to
get my e-mails.  It is set to "Always On" during during work hours and
every 15 minutes otherwise. I also have two IMAP accounts configured
(gmail and ovi).

> I suspect the display brightness could also make a big difference for
> battery life, I have it at the lowest setting.

I can barely see the screen at lowest setting (and not at all from an
angle). Maybe if I worked in the dark I could use that. :) Mine is on
4/5 right now, anything lower just seems too dim but maybe I'll try
3/5 for a couple days and see if I notice any battery life increase.

> Also FWIW I have Bluetooth disabled and am only using GSM, not 3G, as I
> only use WiFi for internet access.

Here I don't use bluetooth ever, nor FM transmitter.

T-Mobile's signal is crap everywhere I go, perhaps that drains my
battery as well. I guess when the signal is weak, the phone has to
transmit stronger to reach the tower? Most of the time I have between
2 bars and no signal whatsoever. :(
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Re: Getting started with a 770, tips?

[chombee]

I flashed the 770 with OS2007HE and am pretty happy with the result.
Everything seems to work better, run faster and crash less. I'm pretty
sure the OS2006 it came with had corrupted the file system and memory
card (which I reformatted in OS2007).

There are a couple of problems.

1. The device occasionally reboots itself suddenly without warning. I've
no idea why. The sounds usually stop for a few seconds first but the
device continues responding as normal, then it reboots. There's no
obvious logs or anything left behind. I'd like to get to the bottom of
this. Any suggestions where I might look?

2. I enabled the option in the control panel to use 64MB of the 2GB
memory card as additional swap space. Unfortunately this seems to have
had the effect of making the entire card a read-only filesystem. When I
try to turn the option off again it fails, saying something like 'failed
to remove swap space'. If I take the card out, as soon as I re-insert it
OS2007 seems to find the swap space and start using it. I took the 2GB
card out and replaced it with a 1GB one and was careful not to enable
the swap option. The 2GB card is useless now unless I can do something
about it from the terminal or use another device to format it.

3. I would like to get rid of the Nokia logo (with picture of hands) and
sound effect at boot. The Powatool package from meaemo.org/downloads
says it does this, but the package fails to install saying spomething
like 'incompatible with existing packages'.

Lots of stuff works well, here's a quick report:

Touchscreen text entry on the 770 actually works much better than I
expected it to, but I think a hardware keyboard like the N810 has would
be much better for text input.

Email still hangs and fails to receive email from my home account
(lavabit.com, IMAP SSL) but I set the account to use the POP instead of
IMAP and that works. It handles the IMAP server for my work email just
fine. I quite like this simple email client and the way it merges both
accounts into the same Inbox, Sent folder, etc. I think it's just right
for the 770. I can ssh to my server and run mutt, but OS2007's email
program works better, it supports the touchscreen and the GUI is
designed to be easy to operate on small touchscreen devices like the
770.

I got the Osso X Terminal (Advanced) installed and this terminal does
the job just fine. I've been using the terminal to ssh to my server,
which is how I get a lot of stuff done on the 770. Very nice. I
installed leafpad and am using that as my $EDITOR. As far as I can the
only text editor that came installed is vi, but leafpad is much easier
to control on the 770.

The media player works well for playing internet radio and any podcast
files that I put on the device.

The file browser is nice and just right for this device. Image viewer
too.

The web browser just about works but it's very slow. Turning off display
of images in webpages helps, but this option seems to sometimes enable
itself again. It seems best to stay out of the web browser as much as
you can, as it's a sure way to end up with your 770 becoming
unresponsive and wasting a lot of your time.

I don't like the RSS feed reader either because it shows you only
previews of the feed items, to read them it opens the web browser with
(usually) disastrous results. I setup a text mode feed reader
(newsbeuter) on my server and have been using that over ssh instead,
works quite well. When feeds don't contain the full articles I open the
webpage with links (over ssh).  I find that reading feeds in text mode
has the effect that I read the full text of a lot more articles now,
whereas with desktop or web-based feed readers I tend to skim many many
items and not really read anything. Now I subscribe to less feeds and
look for feeds that contain decent-sized articles to read.

I didn't find a podcast program for the 770, but I've setup a text mode
one (hpodder) on my server and have cron run once a week to download
podcasts. I can then use rsync on the 770 to download any new podcast
files from my server onto my 770's memory card, then play them back in
the media player. This is working nicely.

The PDF reader looks alright but there's no way to turn pages in
fullscreen mode, and if you reopen a PDF it starts from page 1 and
there's not way to get back to where you left off. I guess it's just for
viewing PDFs, not really an ebook reader. I might try out FBReader as an
ebook reader on it, it supports more formats than just PDF too. But I'm
tempted to run a text mode ebook reader (even just less) in a screen
session on my server.

That's about the extent of what I've been doing with it. I noticed the
scratch and notes programs, they look nice but I think they could never
compete with a paper notebook and a pencil. They'd be so much slower to
use. The games that came installed on it look surprisingly good (and
maemo.org/downloads has bomberman!), but I haven't played with them
yet.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 03:28:03PM -0500, ch

Re: Getting started with a 770, tips?

[chombee]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 03:40:10AM +0100, sebastian maemo wrote:
> > First of all, how can I find out which firmware and OS version the
> > tablet is running? And how can I upgrade to the latest versions that
> > will run on the 770?
> >
> 
> I'm still using OS2006, but I think you're already using OS2007...
> 
> Are you running your filesystem from flash memory or from MMC?

I'm on OS2007HE now, yeah. It's installed on the flash memory, I also
use an MMC but the OS is not installed on the MMC.

> > And second, where should I look for repositories and other places to
> > find applications for the 770?
> 
> The best place for me, without any doubt:
> 
> http://www.gronmayer.com/it/

Great link, thanks!

> Here's a list of useful applications that I've installed on my little
> lovely 770: (thank you very much to all of them who have made this
> possible)

Wow, that's a _lot_ of stuff. Isn't your 770 running out of memory with
all that? Doesn't it slow it down to have that many packages installed?
There's a few packages from your list that sound useful, I might try
looking for OS2007 packages on gronmayer.com.

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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Dawid Lorenz]

On 23 February 2010 14:33, Jan Knutar  wrote:

> If htop just uses the MemFree field from /proc/meminfo, then it's pretty
> much supposed to hover at over 90% used all the time. Unused RAM is
> wasted RAM. What matters is if the system is able to free up RAM when
> it's needed without excessive I/O traffic slowing things down..
>

At this very moment I have 66% RAM use (160/240MB) and 13% swap use
(105/767MB) - as seen in conky. Looks like there could be sth around
200-210MB of RAM use and just 50-60MB of swap use, but it isn't. :-o

-- 
Dawid 'evad' Lorenz * http://adl.pl

null://I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source
code
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Jan Knutar]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010, Dawid Lorenz wrote:

> I just get readings from tools like htop or conky.

If htop just uses the MemFree field from /proc/meminfo, then it's pretty 
much supposed to hover at over 90% used all the time. Unused RAM is 
wasted RAM. What matters is if the system is able to free up RAM when 
it's needed without excessive I/O traffic slowing things down..
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Re: Not enough memory

[Eero Tamminen]

Hi,

ext Craig Woodward wrote:
 Eero Tamminen  wrote: 

Compression can make normal ASCII data into 1/3 of its size


Yes, wonderful.  Is a default N900 using a compressed filesystem?
NO. Why are we talking about it?  Moot point.


Err?

UBIFS used for rootfs is most certainly using compression.

For example the 20MB icon cache file (which is generated so it's
not in any package) that was earlier the largest issue for SSUs
(due to Gtk keeping old versions open) and which we removed for
PR1.1, took "only" 3MB of the rootfs space per instance.

Btw. In case you're interested, here are the technical details
which explain why even the file system itself cannot give very good
estimate on how much "free space" it has:
http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/ubifs.html#L_spaceacc




And the issue with that is that package doesn't know into which Fremantle 
release it's going to be installed.


Doesn't the package manager send some kind of identifying info? 


Sorry, you lost me.

Where you're expecting this proposed package space estimation
to happen and when?  When creating a package?  Before installing it?
After it's installed?

If it's before install, what would provide that information to device?


[...]
it's not saying it will take 17,367,483 bytes; it says "17.4M". 


Which I think is too accurate number when the things I mentioned
are taken into account. :-)


[..]

I think it's a bit too confusing to have on the Application Manager UI.


I disagree.  It think it's absolutely needed in the package manager,
especially when the app manager is telling users "insufficient
rootfs space" when trying to do PR updates.


/home is larger, but it can also run out of space.

Root running out of space is more important though because if it becomes
full (so that even root cannot write anything there), the system may not
anymore boot up.  /home partition becoming full means that applications
may not behave correctly (tracker cannot index new files, so media
player doesn't show them, email cannot be fetched etc).



The app manager is the default tool they're going to use to install
and remove packages.  Knowing how much space a package takes up on
the rootfs is critical in selecting which packages to remove to make
space for such an update.  Removing a non-optified 8M package is
going to free a lot more space on the rootfs than removing an optified
one that shows 60M of usage.  But you have to be able to tell if it's
optified or not, which right now there's no way of telling.

>
Maybe there could be a separate 3rd party application 


That would be great too, but having it in the app manager would make
it that much easier.  It's one small piece of metadata, a few bytes
per package.


Well, you're free to suggest such an UI change, but I have my doubts
about how well less-technical users understand the distinction between
rootfs and /home etc.  I assume you're suggesting that these values
would be shown in the UI always?



Even if it's collected during install (doing a df
pre/post and storing that per block device), it's something.


That would include also their dependencies, but those could be
shared between later installed packages.



Nothing but the app manager can do that though, since it's the one
doing the installs.  And really, nobody wants to hop from one app
to the other to find/delete rootfs hogs.


And what about the non-UI packages that aren't shown in the Application
manager UI (for a good reason) and which also take space?

That hypothetical 3rd party application could show also those and
nothings preventing it from implementing package removal too.


- Eero

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RE: ovi maps : problems

[Andre Klapper]

Am Dienstag, den 23.02.2010, 12:29 +0100 schrieb Alessio Stella:
> wow
> i don't know why i don't manage
> i had preset the catalogue
> maemo.org
> web: repository.maemo.org/extras/
> Distr.:fremantle
> comp: free non-free
> enabled
> 
> if i do search applications navit the application manager says : "no
> matches found"..

As written before by napoogle: extra testing and extra devel.
Note that these repositories contain unstable software that might create
huge problems. If you're unsure, wait. You've been warned...

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)

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RE: ovi maps : problems

[Alessio Stella]

wow

i don't know why i don't manage

i had preset the catalogue

maemo.org
web: repository.maemo.org/extras/

Distr.:fremantle

comp: free non-free

enabled



if i do search applications navit the application manager says : "no matches 
found"..

> From: napoo...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:19:50 +0100
> Subject: Re: ovi maps : problems
> To: alessio.ste...@hotmail.it
> CC: maemo-users@maemo.org
> 
> On my Nokia N900 i added the extra testing and extra devel repositories
> and i have the navit software.
  
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Re: ovi maps : problems

[Maurizio Napolitano]

On my Nokia N900 i added the extra testing and extra devel repositories
and i have the navit software.
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Dawid Lorenz]

On 23 February 2010 09:16, Marius Gedminas  wrote:

> There are no leftovers of apps that got closed; AFAIU it's just that
> apps/libraries that didn't get closed were pushed from RAM into swap and
> haven't moved back in again.  To force them back into RAM you can try
>
> sudo gainroot
> swapoff -a; swapon -a
>

I've been trying this. Problem is that swapoff command moves stuff from swap
to RAM (nicely seen in conky's graphs, btw), which obviously can't take
whole swap contents and when RAM capacity is reached, swapoff simply
crashes. I am not an expert, but when something related with system memory
crashes, I don't feel very good about it. :)

-- 
Dawid 'evad' Lorenz * http://adl.pl

null://signatures are for wimps
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Re: Dealing with N900 responsiveness (or lack of thereof)

[Marius Gedminas]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 08:26:52PM +, Dawid Lorenz wrote:
> On 22 February 2010 18:06, Marius Gedminas  wrote:
> > (Note that after a fresh boot with hundreds of megs of swap used the UI
> > is still snappy; it's after a large app pushes essential bits of the OS
> > into swap that leaves the UI a bit struggling, even after you close that
> > large app -- the OS bits are swapped-in incrementally on demand, so
> > expect occasional pauses.)
> 
> That's what exactly I suspect is happening here and I wonder whether there
> is some way of flushing memory and/or swap from leftovers of apps that got
> closed?

There are no leftovers of apps that got closed; AFAIU it's just that
apps/libraries that didn't get closed were pushed from RAM into swap and
haven't moved back in again.  To force them back into RAM you can try

sudo gainroot
swapoff -a; swapon -a

Marius Gedminas
-- 
Premature optimization is the root of all evil.
-- D.E. Knuth


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