Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Monday 29 January 2007 02:29:05 am Riku Voipio wrote: > James Polley wrote: > > Do you have a solution for me? > > You could just set LC_TIME=de_DE (or whatever timeformat you prefer) in > some enviroinment file sourced at startup. /etc/osso-af-init/locale is > the place > locales are read now, but if you ever change regional settings after that, > your change to that file will get overwritten. > > >> I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda > >> right now. > >> > > I don't see why this hasn't been done already. It's been done on > > everything else I own, even my phones. > > Do you have a Linux desktop?What do select to get a 24h locale there? > > > Perhaps it would help if you could give us some background on why you > > feel this is such a hard problem to solve. It sounds as though there's > > been plenty of internal discussion about this - perhaps if we > > understood the background we'd be less upset, or perhaps even able to > > offer some solutions. > > The device is just using normal Linux locales, I guess they don't want > to clutter > the regional settings screen with more settings. Note that if you run date on either the Linux desktop on your full size system or on the 770/n800 it's returns a 24 hour clock. Mon Jan 29 18:24:39 PST 2007 Now depending on what clock program I run on my desktop (kde WM) I get either a 12 hour or 24 hour output. Kind of like what panel clock does. It gives 24 hour output. Even though clock doesn't. James > > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Monday 29 January 2007 02:11:09 am [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you > >>could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" > >>applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland > >>and off you go. > > > >That sounds like a horrible hack to me. And I don't live in > >Germany and want a 24 hour clock. > > Not for me running English UI with Finish locales ;) > > >And I'm still wondering where this UK = am/pm clock style only > >comes from. > > POSIX locale. Specifications for US/UK say you use 12 hour time. > > >>I do not see this as something that would be high enough on > >>our agenda right now. > > > >For me it's lower priority that getting an email client that > >works so I don't have to online and paying Orange's outrageous > >data charges to read my mail. Having said that, I'd be > >interested to know why the original implementation is broken > >and on what basis the decision was made. > > Nothing is broken, all works as specified ;) > > As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either > modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with > the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or > understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the > only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. > > Br, > > --jakub OSX and windwos. allow US/UK users 24hour clocks. As does my Linux desktop. James > > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Monday 29 January 2007 01:03:46 am [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >On 1/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi, > >> In general: > >> Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean > >> simple way btw? > >> Meaning so that it does not increase > >> too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? > > > >Seems pretty staightforward to me. Have a "Custom" option in > >the "Language & region" -> "Regional Settings" dropdown menu > >that turns all the various settings into dropdown menus > >containing all the options you use elsewhere for that > >particular setting ... and include a time format in that list. > > > >/Mike > > Hi, > > Why do you want the 24 hour clock for UK/US users? Is it just for the > clock application or do you equally strongly need to have 24 hour clock > when file manager shows file timestaps or email shows the received > time(date) field, etc.? In short because I and so many in the telecom/computer/technical/scientific/military/International business communities in the US, use 24 hour clocks over 12 hour ones (except perhaps on our wrists). 18:18 make as much sense to me as 6:18pm and it's a lot easier to tell what time it is in Dubai or South Korea that way. James > > If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you > could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" > applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and > off you go. > > I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda > right now. > > Br, > > --jakub > > > > > > > > > > ___ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On 30/01/07, Michael Wiktowy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 1/29/07, Humberto Ortiz Zuazaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either > > modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with > > the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or > > understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the > > only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. > Here's what the terminal thinks is my locale information: > > $ locale > LANG= > LC_COLLATE="C" > LC_CTYPE="C" > LC_MESSAGES="C" > LC_MONETARY="C" > LC_NUMERIC="C" > LC_TIME="C" > LC_ALL="C" I believe that the "C" just means that it uses the current locale for those settings. C is actually a locale definition. If you've got a *nix machine handy (I've only tested on Linux, but it should be similar on any POSIX-compliant system), you can: * use "locale -a" to get a list of available locales * use "export LC_TIME=$(locale_name)" to set your locale (eg, "export LC_TIME=C" to switch to the C locale) * use "locale -v -c LC_TIME" to see the full definition of LC_TIME for that locale I just did a quick comparison of the C and de_DE locales on a linux machine I had handy - the full diff is below, and I've attached the full files The main difference, as far as this conversation goes, would be these lines: C locale: %H:%M:%S %I:%M:%S %p de_DE locale: %T These format strings are as per date(1). In the C locale, there's a definition for both 12-hour time (second line) and 24-hour time (first line). In the de_DE locale, there's only 24-hour time. If Nokia don't care about this and stubbornly refuse to support their users, which seems to be the case, it shouldn't be hard for us to create our own locales and use them. I'd work on this right now, but my N800 is still in transit... give me a week or two :) There's a detailed guide to LC_TIME at http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/pseries/v5r3/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.aix.files/doc/aixfiles/LC_TIME.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# diff C de_DE 2,10c2,9 < Sun;Mon;Tue;Wed;Thu;Fri;Sat < Sunday;Monday;Tuesday;Wednesday;Thursday;Friday;Saturday < Jan;Feb;Mar;Apr;May;Jun;Jul;Aug;Sep;Oct;Nov;Dec < January;February;March;April;May;June;July;August;September;October;November;December < AM;PM < %a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Y < %m/%d/%y < %H:%M:%S < %I:%M:%S %p --- So;Mo;Di;Mi;Do;Fr;Sa Sonntag;Montag;Dienstag;Mittwoch;Donnerstag;Freitag;Samstag Jan;Feb;Mär;Apr;Mai;Jun;Jul;Aug;Sep;Okt;Nov;Dez Januar;Februar;März;April;Mai;Juni;Juli;August;September;Oktober;November;Dezember ; %a %d %b %Y %T %Z %d.%m.%Y %T 17d15 < 0 18a17,18 0 S 20c20 < 19971130 --- 19971201 22c22 < 7 --- 1 27c27 < ANSI_X3.4-1968 --- ISO-8859-1 -- There is nothing more worthy of contempt than a man who quotes himself - Zhasper, 2004 de_DE Description: Binary data en_AU Description: Binary data C Description: Binary data ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On 1/29/07, Humberto Ortiz Zuazaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either > modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with > the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or > understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the > only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. Here's what the terminal thinks is my locale information: $ locale LANG= LC_COLLATE="C" LC_CTYPE="C" LC_MESSAGES="C" LC_MONETARY="C" LC_NUMERIC="C" LC_TIME="C" LC_ALL="C" I believe that the "C" just means that it uses the current locale for those settings. So there seems to be some mechanism for deviating from the local norms. It looks like you have not overridden those dominant local standards with your own preference of standards ... like ISO 8601 for instance ... which makes a whole lot more sense than any local variant. In the end, it is not really a big deal but rather a little constant irritant. Now that I know that I can hack the locale file, I will. But to not present that choice in the UI is a little user-hostile. /Mike ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On 29 Jan 2007, at 10:11, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and off you go. That sounds like a horrible hack to me. And I don't live in Germany and want a 24 hour clock. Not for me running English UI with Finish locales ;) So not a lot of help. And I'm still wondering where this UK = am/pm clock style only comes from. POSIX locale. Specifications for US/UK say you use 12 hour time. Oh good. Well at least I know who got it wrong. I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda right now. For me it's lower priority that getting an email client that works so I don't have to online and paying Orange's outrageous data charges to read my mail. Having said that, I'd be interested to know why the original implementation is broken and on what basis the decision was made. Nothing is broken, all works as specified ;) As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. Amusingly, the AM/PM options is not available to me in OSX preference so while it is now 20:49 in 24 notation, I can only get 08:49 not 08:49PM. Which seems to me to be wrong, Andy ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
As an idea, the clock applet could have an "advanced" string input, which just takes an argument to the POSIX strftime() function. That would give the users maximum flexibility, and since it's a plain string input, should be fairly easy to implement. The input dialog for the advanced format could have a little help screen explaining the various %s escapes, and some examples. I realize this is not visually impressive, but it's very useful. Ted ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
This is the most conversation we've had on this list! As stated earlier -- Nokia currently supports setting these time and date preferences -- without region modification -- on phones ... why not the tablet? On 1/29/07, Humberto Ortiz Zuazaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either > modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with > the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or > understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the > only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. Mac OS X 10.4: Displaying the date and time You can have an analog or digital clock appear in the menu bar or in a floating window on your desktop. You can also choose how the time appears (for example, you can choose to see the day of the week, or use a 24-hour clock). I don't know what they do to the locale, but 24 hour format is just a checkbox on the clock tab in the date and time system preferences. Here's what the terminal thinks is my locale information: $ locale LANG= LC_COLLATE="C" LC_CTYPE="C" LC_MESSAGES="C" LC_MONETARY="C" LC_NUMERIC="C" LC_TIME="C" LC_ALL="C" Right now I'm in the US with a 24 hour clock on my Mac Desktop. -- Humberto Ortiz-Zuazaga Programmer-Archaeologist UPR Bioinformatics Resource Center http://www.hpcf.upr.edu/~humberto/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene m 917.560.3000 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gizmo - JonathanGreene blog - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. Mac OS X 10.4: Displaying the date and time You can have an analog or digital clock appear in the menu bar or in a floating window on your desktop. You can also choose how the time appears (for example, you can choose to see the day of the week, or use a 24-hour clock). I don't know what they do to the locale, but 24 hour format is just a checkbox on the clock tab in the date and time system preferences. Here's what the terminal thinks is my locale information: $ locale LANG= LC_COLLATE="C" LC_CTYPE="C" LC_MESSAGES="C" LC_MONETARY="C" LC_NUMERIC="C" LC_TIME="C" LC_ALL="C" Right now I'm in the US with a 24 hour clock on my Mac Desktop. -- Humberto Ortiz-Zuazaga Programmer-Archaeologist UPR Bioinformatics Resource Center http://www.hpcf.upr.edu/~humberto/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
Jakub, I mean no offense but... if we have to explain it... A user shouldn't have to explain WHY they would like to see their time in a different way. I know of no OS, to include Linux, that doesn't allow you to make that change. I, for example, am a military officer and we deal in 24-hour time. I shouldn't have to switch regions. I also travel a lot around the world. Again, I shouldn't have to switch regions to gain a feature that exists in the very OS you've ported. Regards, Nick Shaw -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; maemo-users@maemo.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800 >On 1/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi, >> In general: >> Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean >> simple way btw? >> Meaning so that it does not increase >> too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? > >Seems pretty staightforward to me. Have a "Custom" option in >the "Language & region" -> "Regional Settings" dropdown menu >that turns all the various settings into dropdown menus >containing all the options you use elsewhere for that >particular setting ... and include a time format in that list. > >/Mike Hi, Why do you want the 24 hour clock for UK/US users? Is it just for the clock application or do you equally strongly need to have 24 hour clock when file manager shows file timestaps or email shows the received time(date) field, etc.? If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and off you go. I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda right now. Br, --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 11:03 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >On 1/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > Why do you want the 24 hour clock for UK/US users? Is it just for the > clock application or do you equally strongly need to have 24 hour clock > when file manager shows file timestaps or email shows the received > time(date) field, etc.? I would like it for all the above reasons as well as for the apps that may needs time input. One less tap when I don't have to select am/pm. Also, because the *customer* wants it!! > > If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you > could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" > applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and > off you go. That is not the case here. > > I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda > right now. > > Br, > > --jakub Now why does a statement like that upset me so much? Is it because I paid way too much for a device with limited functionality? Is it because it sends the message the company doesn't care? Is it because I've had to fight for warranty service? Or maybe because I'm angry at myself for believing the hype surrounding the 770 and buying it in the first place? You pick, it's multiple guess and there are no wrong answers. Regards, -- Peter Bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://petertheplumber.net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
>On 29/01/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. >Germany you >> >>could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language >and region" >> >>applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to >Deutchland >> >>and off you go. >> > >> >That sounds like a horrible hack to me. And I don't live in Germany >> >and want a 24 hour clock. >> >> Not for me running English UI with Finish locales ;) >> >> >And I'm still wondering where this UK = am/pm clock style >only comes >> >from. >> >> POSIX locale. Specifications for US/UK say you use 12 hour time. >> >> >>I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our >> >>agenda right now. >> > >> >For me it's lower priority that getting an email client >that works so >> >I don't have to online and paying Orange's outrageous data >charges to >> >read my mail. Having said that, I'd be interested to know why the >> >original implementation is broken and on what basis the >decision was >> >made. >> >> Nothing is broken, all works as specified ;) >> >> As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either >> modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale >> with the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has >better idea or >> understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be >> the only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. > >Fantastic - although you didn't respond to my email, you gave >exactly the information I was hoping for :) > >I'm not posting this to the list because I'm not sure I'm on >the right list - I'll post there (or you can post a response) >if it's helpful later... > >Does this mean that if we can set LC_TIME we could change this >ourselves? Hi, Posting back to the list. Short answer: YES. You can go and set LC_TIME to whatever you want in e.g. /etc/osso-af-init/locale. For example just add there LC_TIME = fi_FI (again, you are setting you time preference to that of some other locale, e.g. Finish). Br, --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> I do not see this as something that would be high enough on >>> our agenda right now. >> For me it's lower priority that getting an email client that >> works so I don't have to online and paying Orange's outrageous >> data charges to read my mail. Having said that, I'd be >> interested to know why the original implementation is broken >> and on what basis the decision was made. > > Nothing is broken, all works as specified ;) > > As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either > modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with > the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or > understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the > only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. The locale used doesn't necessarily have to determine how the clock looks, I'd consider it more of a default. If you use GNOME, right-click the clock in the panel -> Preferences -> Clock type 24/12 hour. The file manager (Nautilus) is infamous for not having many visible settings you can change, but it too has a setting for the time format. On a controlled platform like ours it could easily be a single system wide setting. Regards, Tomas ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
James Polley wrote: Do you have a solution for me? You could just set LC_TIME=de_DE (or whatever timeformat you prefer) in some enviroinment file sourced at startup. /etc/osso-af-init/locale is the place locales are read now, but if you ever change regional settings after that, your change to that file will get overwritten. I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda right now. > I don't see why this hasn't been done already. It's been done on > everything else I own, even my phones. Do you have a Linux desktop?What do select to get a 24h locale there? Perhaps it would help if you could give us some background on why you feel this is such a hard problem to solve. It sounds as though there's been plenty of internal discussion about this - perhaps if we understood the background we'd be less upset, or perhaps even able to offer some solutions. The device is just using normal Linux locales, I guess they don't want to clutter the regional settings screen with more settings. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On 29/01/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On 1/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi, >> In general: >> Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean >> simple way btw? >> Meaning so that it does not increase >> too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? > >Seems pretty staightforward to me. Have a "Custom" option in >the "Language & region" -> "Regional Settings" dropdown menu >that turns all the various settings into dropdown menus >containing all the options you use elsewhere for that >particular setting ... and include a time format in that list. > >/Mike Hi, Why do you want the 24 hour clock for UK/US users? Is it just for the clock application or do you equally strongly need to have 24 hour clock when file manager shows file timestaps or email shows the received time(date) field, etc.? I'd like 24-hour clock everywhere - as it currently is on my phone, my laptops, my desktops, my servers If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and off you go. I'm living in Australia. I'm not going to set my regional settings to Deutschland because having a , where I expect a . confuses me. Do you have a solution for me? I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda right now. I don't see why this hasn't been done already. It's been done on everything else I own, even my phones. Perhaps it would help if you could give us some background on why you feel this is such a hard problem to solve. It sounds as though there's been plenty of internal discussion about this - perhaps if we understood the background we'd be less upset, or perhaps even able to offer some solutions. -- There is nothing more worthy of contempt than a man who quotes himself - Zhasper, 2004 ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
>>If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you >>could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" >>applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland >>and off you go. > >That sounds like a horrible hack to me. And I don't live in >Germany and want a 24 hour clock. Not for me running English UI with Finish locales ;) >And I'm still wondering where this UK = am/pm clock style only >comes from. POSIX locale. Specifications for US/UK say you use 12 hour time. >>I do not see this as something that would be high enough on >>our agenda right now. > >For me it's lower priority that getting an email client that >works so I don't have to online and paying Orange's outrageous >data charges to read my mail. Having said that, I'd be >interested to know why the original implementation is broken >and on what basis the decision was made. Nothing is broken, all works as specified ;) As I said, we migh look into it, but AFAIK this would mean we either modify the current locale (really nasty) or create a pseudo-locale with the user setting (just nasty). Unless someone has better idea or understanding of the POSIX locales. Either way, I'd feel we would be the only UNIX system doing this (does OSX do it too?). Ideas welcome. Br, --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
>> Hi, >> In general: >> Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean >> simple way btw? >> Meaning so that it does not increase >> too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? > >Seems pretty staightforward to me. Have a "Custom" option in >the "Language & region" -> "Regional Settings" dropdown menu >that turns all the various settings into dropdown menus >containing all the options you use elsewhere for that >particular setting ... and include a time format in that list. > >/Mike Hi, Why do you want the 24 hour clock for UK/US users? Is it just for the clock application or do you equally strongly need to have 24 hour clock when file manager shows file timestaps or email shows the received time(date) field, etc.? If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and off you go. I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda right now. I use 24 hr clock for everything. I would have thought having a checkbox somewhere to choose time display option would be a fairly standard OS option, my laptops various OS all have the option, as does my phone and blackberry, even my alarm clock and watch does. Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
Jakub, I'm not Mike so this is my view: > >Why do you want the 24 hour clock for UK/US users? Well one reason is because as a user I want it. If that's not enough, then I prefer the lack of ambiguity between 4am and pm which is resolved by referencing 04:00 and 16:00. It does seem odd to me that there seems to be some specific rule implemented for US/UK times when I've lived here for 46 years and not run into any specific format spec for UK times. > Is it just for the >clock application or do you equally strongly need to have 24 hour clock >when file manager shows file timestaps or email shows the received >time(date) field, etc.? For me, I'd say the latter. > >If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you >could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" >applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and >off you go. That sounds like a horrible hack to me. And I don't live in Germany and want a 24 hour clock. And I'm still wondering where this UK = am/pm clock style only comes from. > >I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda >right now. For me it's lower priority that getting an email client that works so I don't have to online and paying Orange's outrageous data charges to read my mail. Having said that, I'd be interested to know why the original implementation is broken and on what basis the decision was made. Andy ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
>On 1/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi, >> In general: >> Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean >> simple way btw? >> Meaning so that it does not increase >> too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? > >Seems pretty staightforward to me. Have a "Custom" option in >the "Language & region" -> "Regional Settings" dropdown menu >that turns all the various settings into dropdown menus >containing all the options you use elsewhere for that >particular setting ... and include a time format in that list. > >/Mike Hi, Why do you want the 24 hour clock for UK/US users? Is it just for the clock application or do you equally strongly need to have 24 hour clock when file manager shows file timestaps or email shows the received time(date) field, etc.? If you are running the UI in English but living in e.g. Germany you could also just go to the Control Panel, launch "Language and region" applet, set your UI to English, your regional settings to Deutchland and off you go. I do not see this as something that would be high enough on our agenda right now. Br, --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On 1/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, In general: Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean simple way btw? Meaning so that it does not increase too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? Seems pretty staightforward to me. Have a "Custom" option in the "Language & region" -> "Regional Settings" dropdown menu that turns all the various settings into dropdown menus containing all the options you use elsewhere for that particular setting ... and include a time format in that list. /Mike ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Friday 26 January 2007 07:30, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > > >Regarding 12- 24-hour time, I recommend, for the next update, > >you provide the ability of the user to choose which they > >desire. > > I was kind of campaigning for that back then it was specified (when we > were making > the 770), however, not everybody did agree with me and it was not me > that was > going to decide it anyway, so it is thus the way it is now - English -> > 12 hour clock > Finnish -> 24 hour clock. > > > Military personnel in the US, for example, use a > >24-hour clock as do many international corporations. Visitors > >to the US may see the N800 and decide to purchase one at a > >local CompUSA and be disappointed that it uses US time. > > Well, I use English language on my N93 and it does the same thing and it > is pretty > odd for me since I would prefer to use English + 24 hour clock and I > have used to > the 24 hour clock. But one can't ever get everything and it is not > possible to please > everybody always at the same time. > > Karoliina, And to make it more fun to see a 24 hour clock in English install panel clock. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 17:30 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > > >Regarding 12- 24-hour time, I recommend, for the next update, > >you provide the ability of the user to choose which they > >desire. > > I was kind of campaigning for that back then it was specified (when we > were making > the 770), however, not everybody did agree with me and it was not me > that was > going to decide it anyway, so it is thus the way it is now - English -> > 12 hour clock > Finnish -> 24 hour clock. As someone living in America please let me put my 2 cents in for the 24 clock! -- Peter Bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://petertheplumber.net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 05:58:43PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >I'd vote for the ability to change that as even some English > >people use 24hr clocks (when they can) ;) > > > >Speaking of which, would it be that much extra effort to let > >people change the individual regional settings (e.g. decimal > >separator, date format). I can think of times when one might > >want to not have this specified (e.g. If I were an American > >living in Germany I might always want to use a US style date, > >but also a comma as a decimal separator). I'm sure there must > >be better illustrations that that one mind you! > > In general: > Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean simple > way btw? > Meaning so that it does not increase > too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? Well, the answer for the 12/24 hour clock is simple: there's a button to tap that switches between AM and PM when you are setting the time. Extend that to AM/PM/24 and it's in the right place and not taking up any more space. For decimal and date separators and formats, one probably needs a separate control. Nevertheless, it's easy to show it simply: Format: $1,234.56 2007/12/31 Then a tap on each part brings up the available choices. -dsr- -- _.. ___ . ... _ . _. ... ._ ._. . ._ _.. _.__ ___ .._ ._. __ ._ .. ._.. ..__.. _ . .._. _... .. ..__.. http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On 1/26/07, Dave Cridland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri Jan 26 15:43:41 2007, Andrew Flegg wrote: > Apart from the fact it should be user choice, the UK does *not* run > on 12 hour clocks. To be fair, the UK is spectacularly bizarre in most of these things, and hence runs on both. Indeed, I was being pedantic in my use of language. Perhaps unfairly given most of Nokia are presumably non-native English speakers (which, 99.9% of the time, you can never tell). Computers, and electronics generally, and timetables, tend to use 24-hour clocks, but people tend to use 12-hour - so we say delightful things like "The 19:54 train didn't arrive until eight o'clock" - and even better we won't think anything odd about it. We'll also see nothing remotely odd about a TV listing that shows the "Ten O'Clock News" at 22:00. But my children's bedtime is around 7, not 19:00. We're an odd bunch. Similarly, we're mostly all metric. Except on the roads. Or greengrocer's[1] in The Sun. I'd prefer to run the 770 in 24 hour, for what it's worth, but it's not a missing feature I'm all that up in arms about. It's an annoyance, but being told that "the UK uses 12 hour clocks" got my back up: we don't, *I* don't, and I'd like the choice in my gadgets. I take Karoliina's point, but it's /really/ not that hard to do, either technically or from a UI point of view. The same intransigence seems to have come up a few times: you can only complain about bugs in the implementation, not bugs in the design. Cheers, Andrew [1] Sorry for the grammatical error, but the "greengrocers' apostrophe" was intentional, as they're a group renowned for their misuse of the smallest of punctuation marks ;-) -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On Fri Jan 26 15:43:41 2007, Andrew Flegg wrote: Apart from the fact it should be user choice, the UK does *not* run on 12 hour clocks. To be fair, the UK is spectacularly bizarre in most of these things, and hence runs on both. Computers, and electronics generally, and timetables, tend to use 24-hour clocks, but people tend to use 12-hour - so we say delightful things like "The 19:54 train didn't arrive until eight o'clock" - and even better we won't think anything odd about it. We'll also see nothing remotely odd about a TV listing that shows the "Ten O'Clock News" at 22:00. But my children's bedtime is around 7, not 19:00. I'd prefer to run the 770 in 24 hour, for what it's worth, but it's not a missing feature I'm all that up in arms about. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
You can do all this on Nokia phones... why not the tablet? On 1/26/07, Simon Pickering <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I'd vote for the ability to change that as even some English > people use > >24hr clocks (when they can) ;) > > > >Speaking of which, would it be that much extra effort to let people > >change the individual regional settings (e.g. decimal > separator, date > >format). I can think of times when one might want to not have this > >specified (e.g. If I were an American living in Germany I > might always > >want to use a US style date, but also a comma as a decimal > separator). > >I'm sure there must be better illustrations that that one mind you! > > In general: > Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in > clean simple way btw? > Meaning so that it does not increase > too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? Agreed, there's certainly no desire to confuse users. Therefore, what about one of those funny little buttons (like the "Advanced" one in the connection settings), which says something like "Customise" on the regional settings page (the one that lists date format, decimal separator, etc. - sorry if the dialog name is wrong, don't have my N800 in front of me atm). Regards, Simon -- Jonathan Greene m 917.560.3000 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gizmo - JonathanGreene blog - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
> >I'd vote for the ability to change that as even some English > people use > >24hr clocks (when they can) ;) > > > >Speaking of which, would it be that much extra effort to let people > >change the individual regional settings (e.g. decimal > separator, date > >format). I can think of times when one might want to not have this > >specified (e.g. If I were an American living in Germany I > might always > >want to use a US style date, but also a comma as a decimal > separator). > >I'm sure there must be better illustrations that that one mind you! > > In general: > Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in > clean simple way btw? > Meaning so that it does not increase > too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? Agreed, there's certainly no desire to confuse users. Therefore, what about one of those funny little buttons (like the "Advanced" one in the connection settings), which says something like "Customise" on the regional settings page (the one that lists date format, decimal separator, etc. - sorry if the dialog name is wrong, don't have my N800 in front of me atm). Regards, Simon ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
Hi, >I'd vote for the ability to change that as even some English >people use 24hr clocks (when they can) ;) > >Speaking of which, would it be that much extra effort to let >people change the individual regional settings (e.g. decimal >separator, date format). I can think of times when one might >want to not have this specified (e.g. If I were an American >living in Germany I might always want to use a US style date, >but also a comma as a decimal separator). I'm sure there must >be better illustrations that that one mind you! In general: Customizability is very nice, but how to implement that in clean simple way btw? Meaning so that it does not increase too much complexity for those who don't want to customize? Best Wishes, Karoliina ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
On 1/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I do a lot of international travel and thus like to use the 24-hour >> clock, e.g. 1300 for 1:00PM, 1400 for 2:00PM, etc. This is >> the first OS I've encountered that doesn't allow for 12- or 24-hour >> clocks. I'd like to see that changed. This is based on your country's way of handling it. US/UK will get you the AM/PM way, other countries usually use the 24 hour system. I still can't believe this bug is still here in OS 2007. It was reported shortly after OS 2005 was released: whoever's drawing up your specs has made an *enormous* assumption here, which happens to be incorrect. Apart from the fact it should be user choice, the UK does *not* run on 12 hour clocks. Looking around me I see 24-hour clocks on: * my computer * my media player * my mobile phone * my camera * my STB * my VCR * TV listings I also see them every day at the train station. I probably see more 24-hour clocks than I do 12, and I'm in the UK. THIS SHOWS A SERIOUS LACK OF I18N/L10N AWARENESS: you can't assume country => 12/24 hour format. You just can't. Trust me, and other UK users, this "feature" is Just Plain Wrong. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
> > Military personnel in the US, for example, use a 24-hour > clock as do > >many international corporations. Visitors to the US may see > the N800 > >and decide to purchase one at a local CompUSA and be > disappointed that > >it uses US time. > > Well, I use English language on my N93 and it does the same > thing and it is pretty odd for me since I would prefer to use > English + 24 hour clock and I have used to the 24 hour clock. > But one can't ever get everything and it is not possible to > please everybody always at the same time. I'd vote for the ability to change that as even some English people use 24hr clocks (when they can) ;) Speaking of which, would it be that much extra effort to let people change the individual regional settings (e.g. decimal separator, date format). I can think of times when one might want to not have this specified (e.g. If I were an American living in Germany I might always want to use a US style date, but also a comma as a decimal separator). I'm sure there must be better illustrations that that one mind you! Cheers, Simon ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
Hi, >Regarding 12- 24-hour time, I recommend, for the next update, >you provide the ability of the user to choose which they >desire. I was kind of campaigning for that back then it was specified (when we were making the 770), however, not everybody did agree with me and it was not me that was going to decide it anyway, so it is thus the way it is now - English -> 12 hour clock Finnish -> 24 hour clock. > Military personnel in the US, for example, use a >24-hour clock as do many international corporations. Visitors >to the US may see the N800 and decide to purchase one at a >local CompUSA and be disappointed that it uses US time. Well, I use English language on my N93 and it does the same thing and it is pretty odd for me since I would prefer to use English + 24 hour clock and I have used to the 24 hour clock. But one can't ever get everything and it is not possible to please everybody always at the same time. Best Regards, Karoliina http://www.karoliinasalminen.com/blog ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
select several e-mails and delete them. For example, I subscribe to two newsgroups and regularly receive lots of e-mails. In my office I scan the headers to see which are important and delete the rest. I do the same with the N800 except I have to delete each e-mail one-by-one. That's tedious and inefficient. Agree - had that issue previously on the 770 as well. I currently use Gmail in the browser. Multiple selections are possible and rather easy. Just drag the pen over several emails in a row. And then you can add more by dragging over another list of emails. It supports multiple selections ;) Guess a video with instructions would help here ... It's in the manual, too :) Overview / Device Control / Stylus 't. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
Jakub, Thank you for the information regarding e-mail. I'll try it out today. I would, however, recommend including an option to 'select all.' Again, this just saves the user from dragging across many e-mails. The option would work for whatever directory the user is in such as the 'inbox.' I missed Jonathan's response yesterday but the ability to schedule backups, like I do with my Palm, would be great. I use BackupBuddy and backup my data every time I turned off my Palm. My Palm died which was the driver for me to look for an alternative. It is here that one starts to discuss what should be included with the product and what should be a purchased product. BackupBuddy is a purchased product and I would be willing, for a full featured product, to pay for the same or similar features for the Nokia. For an included product, the program should enable one to backup any files on the device, whether flash or card. Backing up of all programs and data should also be included. The issue of cost then moves to the depth and breadth of the features and the ability to, for example, selectively choose which files to retrieve, performing incremental versus full backups, etc. Regarding 12- 24-hour time, I recommend, for the next update, you provide the ability of the user to choose which they desire. Military personnel in the US, for example, use a 24-hour clock as do many international corporations. Visitors to the US may see the N800 and decide to purchase one at a local CompUSA and be disappointed that it uses US time. Regards, Nick Shaw -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800 >> The N800 backup program is adequate for simple backups; however, it >> should include the ability to backup the storage cards and provide >> some level of compression. For example, I have two 2GB >storage cards. >> On one I do backups. On the other I have photos, etc. I should be >> able to backup one card to the other. And I should be able >to select >> backup of applications, etc. > >Agree -- would love to backup apps. After a reflash, you have >to install everything again. It's great to save your prefs >etc, but getting the apps back would be very nice. I'd like >to have the backup be something you could schedule -- on my >Palm's I used BackupMan and had it run each night at 1am. This is much more difficult than you think (I was campaining for that feature too). >> I do a lot of international travel and thus like to use the 24-hour >> clock, e.g. 1300 for 1:00PM, 1400 for 2:00PM, etc. This is >the first >> OS I've encountered that doesn't allow for 12- or 24-hour >clocks. I'd >> like to see that changed. > >no comment. > This is based on your country's way of handling it. US/UK will get you the AM/PM way, other countries usually use the 24 hour system. >> For an Internet Tablet, e-mail is a major component. Unless I'm >> missing something, there is no option to delete all e-mails >or even to >> select several e-mails and delete them. For example, I subscribe to >> two newsgroups and regularly receive lots of e-mails. In my >office I >> scan the headers to see which are important and delete the >rest. I do >> the same with the N800 except I have to delete each e-mail >one-by-one. >> That's tedious and inefficient. > >Agree - had that issue previously on the 770 as well. I >currently use Gmail in the browser. Multiple selections are possible and rather easy. Just drag the pen over several emails in a row. And then you can add more by dragging over another list of emails. It supports multiple selections ;) Guess a video with instructions would help here ... --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
>> The N800 backup program is adequate for simple backups; however, it >> should include the ability to backup the storage cards and provide >> some level of compression. For example, I have two 2GB >storage cards. >> On one I do backups. On the other I have photos, etc. I should be >> able to backup one card to the other. And I should be able >to select >> backup of applications, etc. > >Agree -- would love to backup apps. After a reflash, you have >to install everything again. It's great to save your prefs >etc, but getting the apps back would be very nice. I'd like >to have the backup be something you could schedule -- on my >Palm's I used BackupMan and had it run each night at 1am. This is much more difficult than you think (I was campaining for that feature too). >> I do a lot of international travel and thus like to use the 24-hour >> clock, e.g. 1300 for 1:00PM, 1400 for 2:00PM, etc. This is >the first >> OS I've encountered that doesn't allow for 12- or 24-hour >clocks. I'd >> like to see that changed. > >no comment. > This is based on your country's way of handling it. US/UK will get you the AM/PM way, other countries usually use the 24 hour system. >> For an Internet Tablet, e-mail is a major component. Unless I'm >> missing something, there is no option to delete all e-mails >or even to >> select several e-mails and delete them. For example, I subscribe to >> two newsgroups and regularly receive lots of e-mails. In my >office I >> scan the headers to see which are important and delete the >rest. I do >> the same with the N800 except I have to delete each e-mail >one-by-one. >> That's tedious and inefficient. > >Agree - had that issue previously on the 770 as well. I >currently use Gmail in the browser. Multiple selections are possible and rather easy. Just drag the pen over several emails in a row. And then you can add more by dragging over another list of emails. It supports multiple selections ;) Guess a video with instructions would help here ... --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
At least I'm not out in wonderland... :-) > If you tap a text area with your finger, it should pop open the > kayboard - with the stylus and you get the smaller one. If you get > the stylus and want the fuller keyboard, press the center button on > the D-Pad. You might have to set that in prefs, but it works for me > like that by default. I'm aware of that - the fingerpad is very cool. My real issue is with activating the small keyboard. > I currently use Gmail in the browser. I may have to give that a try. Nick Shaw ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
Some thoughts on your notes... On 1/25/07, Dr. Nicholas Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I like the N800 keyboards; however, what I don't like is that when I select anything that requires the keyboard, it doesn't automatically appear unless I take some action (usually highlighting an existing word that is already highlighted or tapping the screen where there is nothing). This is inefficient. Either the keyboard should appear automatically or one of the hard keys/buttons should activate the keyboard (or at least I should be able to re-program a hard key to activate the keyboard). If you tap a text area with your finger, it should pop open the kayboard - with the stylus and you get the smaller one. If you get the stylus and want the fuller keyboard, press the center button on the D-Pad. You might have to set that in prefs, but it works for me like that by default. The N800 backup program is adequate for simple backups; however, it should include the ability to backup the storage cards and provide some level of compression. For example, I have two 2GB storage cards. On one I do backups. On the other I have photos, etc. I should be able to backup one card to the other. And I should be able to select backup of applications, etc. Agree -- would love to backup apps. After a reflash, you have to install everything again. It's great to save your prefs etc, but getting the apps back would be very nice. I'd like to have the backup be something you could schedule -- on my Palm's I used BackupMan and had it run each night at 1am. The N800 contacts program is almost an adequate program. It enables one to add numerous fields; however, it doesn't have any address capability. I don't know of any functional contacts program that doesn't provide for including addresses (well, I do now…). Thought it was lame on the 770 and have resolved not to really use it on the 800 until there's a more robust PIM. GPE is close... I do a lot of international travel and thus like to use the 24-hour clock, e.g. 1300 for 1:00PM, 1400 for 2:00PM, etc. This is the first OS I've encountered that doesn't allow for 12- or 24-hour clocks. I'd like to see that changed. no comment. As noted earlier, the Control Panel should, under Navigation, include the ability to re-assign functionality to the hard keys. I don't actually use these keys except to play a game or to re-activate the screen/keys after hibernation. Excellent suggestion! I do like the sketch program and it's ability to become larger. I use it a lot in meetings. Battery life on the N800, in comparison to a Palm, is awesome and I agree with what others have written about leaving the device on but locking the keys. Excellent! For an Internet Tablet, e-mail is a major component. Unless I'm missing something, there is no option to delete all e-mails or even to select several e-mails and delete them. For example, I subscribe to two newsgroups and regularly receive lots of e-mails. In my office I scan the headers to see which are important and delete the rest. I do the same with the N800 except I have to delete each e-mail one-by-one. That's tedious and inefficient. Agree - had that issue previously on the 770 as well. I currently use Gmail in the browser. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
[maemo-users] Some Thoughts Regarding IT OS 2007 and the N800
1. I like the N800 keyboards; however, what I don't like is that when I select anything that requires the keyboard, it doesn't automatically appear unless I take some action (usually highlighting an existing word that is already highlighted or tapping the screen where there is nothing). This is inefficient. Either the keyboard should appear automatically or one of the hard keys/buttons should activate the keyboard (or at least I should be able to re-program a hard key to activate the keyboard). 2. The N800 backup program is adequate for simple backups; however, it should include the ability to backup the storage cards and provide some level of compression. For example, I have two 2GB storage cards. On one I do backups. On the other I have photos, etc. I should be able to backup one card to the other. And I should be able to select backup of applications, etc. 3. The N800 contacts program is almost an adequate program. It enables one to add numerous fields; however, it doesn't have any address capability. I don't know of any functional contacts program that doesn't provide for including addresses (well, I do now.). 4. I do a lot of international travel and thus like to use the 24-hour clock, e.g. 1300 for 1:00PM, 1400 for 2:00PM, etc. This is the first OS I've encountered that doesn't allow for 12- or 24-hour clocks. I'd like to see that changed. 5. As noted earlier, the Control Panel should, under Navigation, include the ability to re-assign functionality to the hard keys. I don't actually use these keys except to play a game or to re-activate the screen/keys after hibernation. 6. I do like the sketch program and it's ability to become larger. I use it a lot in meetings. 7. Battery life on the N800, in comparison to a Palm, is awesome and I agree with what others have written about leaving the device on but locking the keys. Excellent! 8. For an Internet Tablet, e-mail is a major component. Unless I'm missing something, there is no option to delete all e-mails or even to select several e-mails and delete them. For example, I subscribe to two newsgroups and regularly receive lots of e-mails. In my office I scan the headers to see which are important and delete the rest. I do the same with the N800 except I have to delete each e-mail one-by-one. That's tedious and inefficient. Regards, Nick Shaw ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
