Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Tim Ashman]

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 01:49:34 pm Matt Emson wrote:
> On 24 Dec 2008, at 21:38, Tim Ashman wrote:
> > I sent an email to audible about 6 months ago asking them to either
> > support
> > maemo or publish an api so someone could write an opensource version.
>
> I think the issue is more LINUX host OS vs Windows and Mac OS X host
> OS on this one. You generally tend to download to your host machine
> and then transfer to the player. I'm under the impression that once
> you have the files downloaded as MP3, you're fine with the N800.
> Getting the files is the issue. Unless it uses DRM (never used their
> MP3's as I use aac  "mpa" format myself.)
>
> Having a native client on the N800 would be kind of cool though.


It does use DRM, so the player needs to be able to undo the DRM.  If it where 
just mp3's it would be fine.  I think to strip the DRM you would have to burn 
to CD and rip back and complete pain.

One day hopefully the DRM issue will die and we can once again get back to 
technology working for users instead of being the cop/judge/jury system that 
DRM is.

tim

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

On 24 Dec 2008, at 21:38, Tim Ashman wrote:
>>
>
> I sent an email to audible about 6 months ago asking them to either  
> support
> maemo or publish an api so someone could write an opensource version.

I think the issue is more LINUX host OS vs Windows and Mac OS X host  
OS on this one. You generally tend to download to your host machine  
and then transfer to the player. I'm under the impression that once  
you have the files downloaded as MP3, you're fine with the N800.  
Getting the files is the issue. Unless it uses DRM (never used their  
MP3's as I use aac  "mpa" format myself.)

Having a native client on the N800 would be kind of cool though.



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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Tim Ashman]

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 12:11:27 pm Matt Emson wrote:
> On 23 Dec 2008, at 23:42, lakestevensdental wrote:
> >  I don't expect my tablet (or Itouch) to play my audio books.
>
> Most audiobooks I buy are from Audible. They support pretty much every
> player under the sun, and prices are not over the top.
>
> M

I sent an email to audible about 6 months ago asking them to either support 
maemo or publish an api so someone could write an opensource version.  They 
emailed back saying something like "we don't provide" software for each 
platform, the platform has to.  So I guess in the case of audible either 
nokia will do it under some sort of nda/binary and audible  isn't willing to 
allow it to be done in a different way.  I even tried to explain that I'm 
sure myself as well as others would purchase books through  their service if 
only it was available for my hardware platform of choice.

just two cents

tim

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

On 23 Dec 2008, at 23:42, lakestevensdental wrote:
>>
>  I don't expect my tablet (or Itouch) to play my audio books.

Most audiobooks I buy are from Audible. They support pretty much every  
player under the sun, and prices are not over the top.

M
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

On 23 Dec 2008, at 02:10, Jerry Van Baren wrote:
>>
>  It isn't fair to fault open source 'free' software for things
> (ports) proprietary companies refuse to do.

It isn't fair to expect companies attempting to make profit form their  
software to give it away for free or to port to an untested platform  
"just because" a couple of users might buy the software. 
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[lakestevensdental]

> lakestevensdental wrote:
>>   neither plays wma digital rights audio books.  Our local library 
>> has just started to offer mp3 audio books for download, but there are 
>> so many fewer books offered in mp3.
>>
>>  Sansa's e2x0 series really does audiobooks and basic music quite 
>> well.   A refurb 8g runs $50 or so.  Unlike the Ipod, you can access 
>> it like a hard drive from a file manager.  Fine print, digital rights 
>> audio books require transfers via either Window Media player or 
>> Overdrive audio book software.
>
> ...and two more proprietary formats (programs), one of which is 
> controlled by Microsoft, the avowed enemy of linux.
>
> It sounds like your usage needs don't match open source software.  
> There is nothing wrong with that, but expecting proprietary software 
> to magically work on linux without the support of the companies that 
> own that proprietary software is unrealistic. 
  I don't expect my tablet (or Itouch) to play my audio books.  The 
Sansa player is sooo much smaller and better suited for audiobooks than 
the Touch or tablet.  It's also good for tunes when skiing.  Just don't 
wear it while playing keeper, listening to tunes, while your son takes 
potshots at the cage.   The right smash to the chest and the audio cable 
connection gets messed up.  It was one of those 'learning' 
experiences...   I don't think any of these smaller devices have stereo 
bluetooth headset hookups. 

Always, Fred C
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[kenneth marken]

Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Matt Emson  wrote:
>   
>>> I know that my N800 can't power
>>> USB memory drives,
>>>   
>> Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys 
>> (Americans would say "thumb drive"  I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand 
>> I remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to 
>> stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)
>>
>> M
>>
>> 
>
> Actually, after some rather frustrating issues with mangled USB keys,
> I started using USB key-sized card readers with microSD and SD cards.
> That way if the reader breaks all I have to do is put the memory card
> in another reader and go. No more losing important data because of a
> broken connector. One of my microSD readers even went through the wash
> with the card inserted and worked just fine afterward. All that is to
> say that I'm actually attempting to use a card reader, not a USB key,
> so that's probably the issue.
>
>   
makes quite a bit of sense that. thats why im somewhat reluctant to 
replace dvd-r media or similar with external hardrives.
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Mark]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Matt Emson  wrote:
>> I know that my N800 can't power
>> USB memory drives,
>
> Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys 
> (Americans would say "thumb drive"  I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand I 
> remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to 
> stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)
>
> M
>

Actually, after some rather frustrating issues with mangled USB keys,
I started using USB key-sized card readers with microSD and SD cards.
That way if the reader breaks all I have to do is put the memory card
in another reader and go. No more losing important data because of a
broken connector. One of my microSD readers even went through the wash
with the card inserted and worked just fine afterward. All that is to
say that I'm actually attempting to use a card reader, not a USB key,
so that's probably the issue.

Mark
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[John Holmblad]

Fred,

I see that there is a Palm version of the Epocrates software. Thus, it 
might be possible to run the Epocrates software on the N800/N810 by 
first installing the N800/N810 Garnet VM for the Palm OS and running 
Epocrates inside of that VM.


Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Acadia Secure Networks, LLC




lakestevensdental wrote:
> Rick Bilonick wrote:
>   
>> I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
>> forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
>> 
> Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of 
> sources -- many free, many not.  Like Maemo, it's a central clearing 
> house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest. 
>
> For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a 
> program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on 
> drugs, interactions and more.  There's a free download for the Ipod 
> Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks. 
> The same software is available for Blackberries and several other 
> internet phone devices.   However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0 
> series so far as I can tell.  This software is self-contained so it 
> works with and without wifi connection.   You can get a wifi Epocrates 
> on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data 
> is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine. 
>
> Bottomline, you can yell and scream all you want about open source 
> 'free' software.  However, there is something to be said for the 
> increased diversity of having both.  
>
> Always, Fred C
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>
>
>   
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Jerry Van Baren]

lakestevensdental wrote:
> Matt Emson wrote:
>>  I've never owned a music player other than an  
>> iPod, so maybe things would be different in that case.
>>   
> One huge downside of  both the Ipod AND n8xx series is neither plays wma 
> digital rights audio books.  Our local library has just started to offer 
> mp3 audio books for download, but there are so many fewer books offered 
> in mp3.
> 
>  Sansa's e2x0 series really does audiobooks and basic music quite 
> well.   A refurb 8g runs $50 or so.  Unlike the Ipod, you can access it 
> like a hard drive from a file manager.  Fine print, digital rights audio 
> books require transfers via either Window Media player or Overdrive 
> audio book software. 
> 
> Always, Fred C

...and two more proprietary formats (programs), one of which is 
controlled by Microsoft, the avowed enemy of linux.

It sounds like your usage needs don't match open source software.  There 
is nothing wrong with that, but expecting proprietary software to 
magically work on linux without the support of the companies that own 
that proprietary software is unrealistic.

In my case I've owned (Palm) Pilots for years (Pilot 5000, III, V, Sony, 
E2).  I got tired of not owning my data (locked into proprietary formats 
only understood by proprietary programs, inaccessible from linux).  I 
decided my E2 was the last locked-in PDA that I would own.

When my E2 wore out, I bought a N800 and love it.  On the other hand, my 
usage pattern is quite different than my friends that own iPhones and 
iPods.  I do things on my N800 that they cannot do and vice versa.  I 
don't plan on ever going back to a proprietary platform 
(Pilot/Apple/Microsoft/whatever).  They don't plan to buy linux-based 
PDAs/tablets.  

Best regards,
gvb

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Jerry Van Baren]

lakestevensdental wrote:
> Rick Bilonick wrote:
>> I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
>> forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
> Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of 
> sources -- many free, many not.  Like Maemo, it's a central clearing 
> house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest. 
> 
> For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a 
> program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on 
> drugs, interactions and more.  There's a free download for the Ipod 
> Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks. 
> The same software is available for Blackberries and several other 
> internet phone devices.   However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0 
> series so far as I can tell.  This software is self-contained so it 
> works with and without wifi connection.   You can get a wifi Epocrates 
> on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data 
> is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine. 
> 
> Bottomline, you can yell and scream all you want about open source 
> 'free' software.  However, there is something to be said for the 
> increased diversity of having both.  
> 
> Always, Fred C

Hi Fred,

FWIIW, the reason Epocrates isn't available on the N8x0 is because the 
*company*  has not ported it to the 
N8x0.  Since it is closed source, they are the only ones who can do the 
port.  It isn't fair to fault open source 'free' software for things 
(ports) proprietary companies refuse to do.

Perhaps Epocrates is not aware of the N8x0 family.  Perhaps they don't 
believe there is enough of a market in the N8x0 family to be worth their 
effort to port it (they make money by selling a premium version).  Have 
you asked them to port their software to the N8x0?

Best regards,
gvb

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[kenneth marken]

lakestevensdental wrote:
> kenneth marken wrote:
>> lakestevensdental wrote:
>>   
>>> Rick Bilonick wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
 I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
 forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
 
   
>>> Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of 
>>> sources -- many free, many not.  Like Maemo, it's a central clearing 
>>> house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest. 
>>>
>>> For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a 
>>> program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on 
>>> drugs, interactions and more.  There's a free download for the Ipod 
>>> Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks. 
>>> The same software is available for Blackberries and several other 
>>> internet phone devices.   However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0 
>>> series so far as I can tell.  This software is self-contained so it 
>>> works with and without wifi connection.   You can get a wifi Epocrates 
>>> on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data 
>>> is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine. 
>>>   
>>> 
>> i say you can thank media for that. they have written just about nothing 
>> on the tablet series, yet even common press writes about apple products 
>> when they usually do not cover tech outside of special columns.
>>
>> basically i see apple as some kind of media darling. as not surprising 
>> really given how common it has been to use apple hardware to run adobe 
>> photoshop and so on. apple products and media production goes a long way 
>> back...
>>   
> This isn't necessarily an Apple Iphone/Ipod deal.  A lot of medical 
> people have Epocrates on their palm pilot device.  AND the software 
> was available before the Iphone and Itouch.
>
>  What undoubtably makes it work really well for developers is the App 
> Store that provides a common portal for both free and paid expanded 
> service software, as well as free and full game versions.   It just 
> makes common marketing sense that the device that has a functional 
> store where people actually buy product is going to do better at 
> attracting development than a 'repository' of free junk.  
>
> Always, Fred C
there is always the possibility to get the palm version going on 
garnetvm, or get nokia to host a version at their tabletter repository.

but basically, nokia nearly flatlined their presence in USA when they 
refused operators to alter the firmware on nokia phones. thats why one 
see close to no USA mobile device blog or similar talk about symbian. 
its only windows mobile, blackberry and lately iphone and android.

and this have had a impact on other nokia products as well, i guess...

sadly, it seems that all the big tech sites online are USA focused. 
gizmodo, engadget, cnet, they all write with a very USA focus. and as 
the iphone makes it big there (and compared to what was around at the 
time, it was a big thing, for that market) this is echoed around the 
world as the smaller sites pick up their news based on the "credibility" 
of the big ones, forgetting about their very slanted view (when it comes 
to mobile tech, USA has just as weird a market as japan, but in a 
somewhat different way).
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[lakestevensdental]

kenneth marken wrote:

  lakestevensdental wrote:
  
  
Rick Bilonick wrote:
  


  I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.

  

Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of 
sources -- many free, many not.  Like Maemo, it's a central clearing 
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest. 

For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a 
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on 
drugs, interactions and more.  There's a free download for the Ipod 
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks. 
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other 
internet phone devices.   However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0 
series so far as I can tell.  This software is self-contained so it 
works with and without wifi connection.   You can get a wifi Epocrates 
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data 
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine. 
  

  
  i say you can thank media for that. they have written just about nothing 
on the tablet series, yet even common press writes about apple products 
when they usually do not cover tech outside of special columns.

basically i see apple as some kind of media darling. as not surprising 
really given how common it has been to use apple hardware to run adobe 
photoshop and so on. apple products and media production goes a long way 
back...
  

This isn't necessarily an Apple Iphone/Ipod deal.  A lot of medical
people have Epocrates on their palm pilot device.  AND the software was
available before the Iphone and Itouch. 

 What undoubtably makes it work really well for developers is the App
Store that provides a common portal for both free and paid expanded
service software, as well as free and full game versions.   It just
makes common marketing sense that the device that has a functional
store where people actually buy product is going to do better at
attracting development than a 'repository' of free junk.   

Always, Fred C


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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[lakestevensdental]

Matt Emson wrote:
>  I've never owned a music player other than an  
> iPod, so maybe things would be different in that case.
>   
One huge downside of  both the Ipod AND n8xx series is neither plays wma 
digital rights audio books.  Our local library has just started to offer 
mp3 audio books for download, but there are so many fewer books offered 
in mp3.

 Sansa's e2x0 series really does audiobooks and basic music quite 
well.   A refurb 8g runs $50 or so.  Unlike the Ipod, you can access it 
like a hard drive from a file manager.  Fine print, digital rights audio 
books require transfers via either Window Media player or Overdrive 
audio book software. 

Always, Fred C
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[kenneth marken]

lakestevensdental wrote:
> Rick Bilonick wrote:
>   
>> I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
>> forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
>> 
> Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of 
> sources -- many free, many not.  Like Maemo, it's a central clearing 
> house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest. 
>
> For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a 
> program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on 
> drugs, interactions and more.  There's a free download for the Ipod 
> Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks. 
> The same software is available for Blackberries and several other 
> internet phone devices.   However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0 
> series so far as I can tell.  This software is self-contained so it 
> works with and without wifi connection.   You can get a wifi Epocrates 
> on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data 
> is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine. 
>   
i say you can thank media for that. they have written just about nothing 
on the tablet series, yet even common press writes about apple products 
when they usually do not cover tech outside of special columns.

basically i see apple as some kind of media darling. as not surprising 
really given how common it has been to use apple hardware to run adobe 
photoshop and so on. apple products and media production goes a long way 
back...
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Denis Dimick]

I think it's "Hurry up and wait" for most of us; we wait to see what
improvements will occur.

I'm interested in seeing what changes the Android will see in the next 6
months.

Thanks,

Denis

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Matt Emson  wrote:

>
> On 22 Dec 2008, at 20:41, Denis Dimick wrote:
>
>  I've had both a n810 and an iPhone (Jailbroken) and ended up selling the
>> iPhone; I was tired of not being able to manage my Music the way I wanted to
>> - iTunes sucks.
>>
>
> I've never really had a problem with iTunes (5th gen iPod owner), but I've
> never had a *good* experience with my N800 and media. My 5th gen ipod runs
> rings around the N800, and that is the problem I have with the N8x0 series
> with regards to media. There's not one player that works properly and has a
> good interface. Canola2 is close, but it constantly plays a few seconds from
> a random MP3 between tracks when on shuffle. No good. I've never owned a
> music player other than an iPod, so maybe things would be different in that
> case.
>
> Android, having played with it over the last few days (Nitdroid) is slicker
> than Maemo. I hope the port matures and I can use it full time. It's a lot
> more pleasurable to use than Maemo. However, the N800 hardware just plain
> struggles to to anything useful in my experience. Even Android is slightly
> pokey, and in similar ways to Maemo, so it's likely a hardware or driver
> level issue.
>
> M
>



-- 
--
sik vis paw kem, para bellum
--
oderint dum metuant
--
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't
be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!" -LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[lakestevensdental]

Rick Bilonick wrote:
> I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
> forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.
Actually, the Apple app store is full of software from a variety of 
sources -- many free, many not.  Like Maemo, it's a central clearing 
house for software that is deemed suitable for the device of interest. 

For example, (and one of my peeves about the n800), the App Store has a 
program/service called Epocrates for medical folks to use to check on 
drugs, interactions and more.  There's a free download for the Ipod 
Touch, as well as a paid advanced service/program from the same folks. 
The same software is available for Blackberries and several other 
internet phone devices.   However, there has NOT been a port to the n8x0 
series so far as I can tell.  This software is self-contained so it 
works with and without wifi connection.   You can get a wifi Epocrates 
on the n800 in the browser, but you can't use it off the net as the data 
is not resident on the device -- at least so far as I can determine. 

Bottomline, you can yell and scream all you want about open source 
'free' software.  However, there is something to be said for the 
increased diversity of having both.  

Always, Fred C
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

On 22 Dec 2008, at 21:40, lakestevensdental wrote:
>
> Maemo could evolve more in the app store's direction, IMHO.
>

Agreed :-) For end users of a consumer nature, an "app store" would be  
the only reasonable option I think. Android seems to have gotten the  
idea - provide an app store for mainstream apps, but also allow third  
party installs of non sanctioned software. Make it something a user  
must select themselves and accept a clear warning as to the issues  
that go along with third party non sanctioned software.

M. 
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Graham Cobb]

On Monday 22 December 2008 19:13:02 Matt Emson wrote:
> > I know that my N800 can't power
> > USB memory drives,
>
> Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys
> (Americans would say "thumb drive"  I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand
> I remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to
> stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)

I can't play MP3's off a USB connected drive.  My N810 can play MP3's off my 
local memory cards and I can copy files to/from USB attached drives with no 
problems.  But I can't play MP3's off the USB attached drives: the sound is 
completely chopped up and incomprehensible.

I assumed that there was some common bus involved in passing data to/from the 
DSP and in accessing the USB so you effectively couldn't do both at the same 
time without exceeding the bandwidth of the bus.  Anyone know if that is 
true?

Graham
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

On 22 Dec 2008, at 20:41, Denis Dimick wrote:

> I've had both a n810 and an iPhone (Jailbroken) and ended up selling  
> the iPhone; I was tired of not being able to manage my Music the way  
> I wanted to - iTunes sucks.

I've never really had a problem with iTunes (5th gen iPod owner), but  
I've never had a *good* experience with my N800 and media. My 5th gen  
ipod runs rings around the N800, and that is the problem I have with  
the N8x0 series with regards to media. There's not one player that  
works properly and has a good interface. Canola2 is close, but it  
constantly plays a few seconds from a random MP3 between tracks when  
on shuffle. No good. I've never owned a music player other than an  
iPod, so maybe things would be different in that case.

Android, having played with it over the last few days (Nitdroid) is  
slicker than Maemo. I hope the port matures and I can use it full  
time. It's a lot more pleasurable to use than Maemo. However, the N800  
hardware just plain struggles to to anything useful in my experience.  
Even Android is slightly pokey, and in similar ways to Maemo, so it's  
likely a hardware or driver level issue.

M
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

On 22 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Marius Gedminas wrote:
>>
>
> You mean the one that doesn't flat-out refuse to work with my Linux- 
> only
> laptop?

If we're being pedantic, why would you buy a product that clearly  
states it does not support LINUX? That's a bit like me buying a book  
in Japanese and expecting to be able to read it. Sure, I could learn  
Japanese, but let's face it, it's unlikely I'll learn enough Japanese  
to read the book any time soon ;-)

M
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[lakestevensdental]

Matt Emson wrote:
> The app store is no different in intent for distro of apps than Maemo.org. 
> Different front end, but the intent is similar. "Here are apps in categories 
> to install..."
>   
I agree the "intent" is no different for the app store vs Maemo, 
assuming you're not counting the garage, which has quite a number of 
apps in a variety of states of utility. 

I'm not sure how other's find the garage -- to me it's a mess that's 
barely comprehensible by most any non-geek.  I'd not use it, except that 
where some of the gem's are found. 

While the 'intent' between the app store and Maemo is similar, most 
would probably agree that the app store is a lot more end-user friendly 
than Maemo.  The app store's graphical web info is readily viewed in the 
Ipod's browser, there's no repositories to hunt down to confuse anyone, 
all of the Apple app's use a relatively similar marketing and click to 
download format.   Free and Paid are easily separated by a click.  

Maemo could evolve more in the app store's direction, IMHO. 

Always, Fred C

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Choppy video from usb thumb-drive [was Re: Itouch v N8x0]

[Luca Olivetti]

En/na Matt Emson ha escrit:
>> I know that my N800 can't power
>> USB memory drives,
> 
> Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys 
> (Americans would say "thumb drive"  I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand I 
> remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to 
> stream video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)

If you use mplayer, you could try -nocache. It seems counterintuitive 
but it got rid of the choppiness here (the video was encodedfor an 
iPod touch ;-))

Bye
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Denis Dimick]

I've had both a n810 and an iPhone (Jailbroken) and ended up selling the
iPhone; I was tired of not being able to manage my Music the way I wanted to
- iTunes sucks.

I then went over to a Windows phone, and have since gone back to my Nokia
5300, at least the Nokia lets me manage my music. I'll look at an Andriod
next year, when they get a bit more cost efective, however, I'l only get rid
of my n810 to buy an new one.

While there is a fairly large learning curve to learn how to deal with a
n810, as with an Linux distro, it's well worth the effort. The simple fact
that you can ssh into the n810, as with other n-series Internet Tablets,
makes it nice. Running "real" commands on the device is the "icing on the
cake".

Just my two cents,

Denis

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 3:42 AM, A J Thew  wrote:

> 2008/12/19 lakestevensdental :
> > As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a
> > promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal.  After
> > week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be
> > useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units.  I've had
> > my n800 since spring 07.
> >
> >  First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design.  Big enough to view,
> > small enough for the average pocket.  However, as part of this, it
> > sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful
> > to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.
> >
> I have a 770 and iPod Touch (firmware 2.2). The exchange facilities in the
> newer
> firmware is really good (if you need this) but Unix like stuff is poor on
> the
> Touch compared to the 770. Yes if you want great music support, there's
> only
> one winer.
>
> A Thew
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--
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

> I know that my N800 can't power
> USB memory drives,

Works for me. Maybe it's size related? I've mounted unpowered USB keys 
(Americans would say "thumb drive"  I'm guessing) up to 2Gb. The only brand I 
remember ottomh is PNY, which would have been 1Gb. I used a 64Gb one to stream 
video once (choppy as hell, but it sort of worked..)

M
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[hendrik]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 12:27:38PM -0600, wolfm...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 12/23/08, hend...@topoi.pooq.com  wrote:
> >> So exactly what model is your keyboard?
> >
> > It's an alphasmart neo.  I've never found another keyboard that feels as
> > good when I'm typing.  And it can be used separate from the computer,
> > too, wherupon is saves up what you type so that later, at the computer,
> > it uploads everything by typing it into you word processor.  It runs on
> > three AA batteries for about nine months of normal use.
> >
> >> I don't have any trouble with
> >> my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
> >> suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
> >> driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
> >> OSs).
> >
> >   The keyboard works without special effort on Windows, Mac, and
> > Debian Linux.  But yes, perhaps maemo has left out a driver that was
> > present in Debian.  And maybe it demands power from the USB port in
> > hookup mode that it doesn't need otherwise.  Perhaps draining USB power
> > is how it recognises there's a computer there.
> >
> > I just know it's annoying.
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
> 
> I'll bet it's a power issue, not a driver one. Try hooking it up
> through a powered hub: if it works, that means it needs power for the
> additional electronics that the tablet can't provide. If it doesn't
> work, it's probably a driver issue. I know that my N800 can't power
> USB memory drives, but works fine with my keyboards. Although it's
> amazing to me that it actually can power the receiver for my wireless
> keyboard. I would have thought that that would take at least as much
> power as a memory drive, but apparently not.
> 
> Mark

Will try.

-- hendrik

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[wolfmane]

On 12/23/08, hend...@topoi.pooq.com  wrote:
>> So exactly what model is your keyboard?
>
> It's an alphasmart neo.  I've never found another keyboard that feels as
> good when I'm typing.  And it can be used separate from the computer,
> too, wherupon is saves up what you type so that later, at the computer,
> it uploads everything by typing it into you word processor.  It runs on
> three AA batteries for about nine months of normal use.
>
>> I don't have any trouble with
>> my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
>> suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
>> driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
>> OSs).
>
>   The keyboard works without special effort on Windows, Mac, and
> Debian Linux.  But yes, perhaps maemo has left out a driver that was
> present in Debian.  And maybe it demands power from the USB port in
> hookup mode that it doesn't need otherwise.  Perhaps draining USB power
> is how it recognises there's a computer there.
>
> I just know it's annoying.
>
> -- hendrik
>

I'll bet it's a power issue, not a driver one. Try hooking it up
through a powered hub: if it works, that means it needs power for the
additional electronics that the tablet can't provide. If it doesn't
work, it's probably a driver issue. I know that my N800 can't power
USB memory drives, but works fine with my keyboards. Although it's
amazing to me that it actually can power the receiver for my wireless
keyboard. I would have thought that that would take at least as much
power as a memory drive, but apparently not.

Mark
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[kenneth marken]

Mark wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 1:47 AM,   wrote:
>   
>> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:19:17PM -0600, Mark wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
>>> phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
>>> stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
>>> real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
>>> that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do.
>>> They make
>>> inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
>>> possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
>>> tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
>>> other power).
>>>   
>> If only my N800 *would* recognise my self-powered USB keyboard as a
>> keyboard!
>>
>> -- hendrik
>> 
>
> So exactly what model is your keyboard? I don't have any trouble with
> my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
> suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
> driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
> OSs). Some hubs have that problem - and shouldn't.
>
> I've toyed with the idea of hacking a hub and keyboard together to
> save space and increase the number of power options
iirc, there are keyboards out there with built in hubs. i do not have a 
link to one available tho...
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Mark]

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 1:47 AM,   wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:19:17PM -0600, Mark wrote:
>
>> I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
>> phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
>> stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
>> real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
>> that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do.
>> They make
>> inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
>> possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
>> tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
>> other power).
>
> If only my N800 *would* recognise my self-powered USB keyboard as a
> keyboard!
>
> -- hendrik

So exactly what model is your keyboard? I don't have any trouble with
my self-powered USB hub and/or keyboard in any configuration. I
suspect that your keyboard isn't quite USB compliant and requires a
driver (that may exist by default and load automatically in other
OSs). Some hubs have that problem - and shouldn't.

I've toyed with the idea of hacking a hub and keyboard together to
save space and increase the number of power options.

Mark
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[hendrik]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:19:17PM -0600, Mark wrote:

> I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
> phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
> stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
> real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
> that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do.
> They make
> inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
> possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
> tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
> other power).

If only my N800 *would* recognise my self-powered USB keyboard as a 
keyboard!

-- hendrik
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Marius Gedminas]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:42:54AM +, A J Thew wrote:
> I have a 770 and iPod Touch (firmware 2.2). The exchange facilities in the 
> newer
> firmware is really good (if you need this) but Unix like stuff is poor on the
> Touch compared to the 770. Yes if you want great music support, there's only
> one winer.

You mean the one that doesn't flat-out refuse to work with my Linux-only
laptop?

Marius Gedminas
-- 
Voodoo Programming:  Things programmers do that they know shouldn't work but
they try anyway, and which sometimes actually work, such as recompiling
everything.
-- Karl Lehenbauer


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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[A J Thew]

2008/12/19 lakestevensdental :
> As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a
> promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal.  After
> week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be
> useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units.  I've had
> my n800 since spring 07.
>
>  First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design.  Big enough to view,
> small enough for the average pocket.  However, as part of this, it
> sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful
> to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.
>
I have a 770 and iPod Touch (firmware 2.2). The exchange facilities in the newer
firmware is really good (if you need this) but Unix like stuff is poor on the
Touch compared to the 770. Yes if you want great music support, there's only
one winer.

A Thew
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Rick Bilonick]

On Sun, 2008-12-21 at 22:19 -0600, Mark wrote:

> Capacitive screens are nice for bare fingers, but if you're wearing
> gloves they don't work. I'll take the pressure-sensitive screen any
> day. I can use my gloved finger or the stylus when it's -10 degrees
> and don't have to worry about frostbite, unlike the guy I saw at the
> bus stop the other day...
> 
> I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
> phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
> stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
> real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
> that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do. They make
> inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
> possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
> tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
> other power). I now also have a battery-powered USB hub (that is as
> small as most normal hubs) that can power the tablet as well as other
> USB peripherals such as USB memory devices etc.
> 
> Apples are all about style over substance. If you want to join the
> me-too crowd who wants to have what everyone else has, regardless of
> whether it's actually worth anything, then by all means jump on the
> Apple bandwagon. You won't actually own the device you paid for,
> though. Apple will dictate to you what you can and cannot do with it.
> Even if you crack it, the possibilities are far from wide open, and
> you'll be in a world of hurt if you ever want something that's in the
> official channels.
> 
> I'll take (relatively) open and a smaller range (but free) of apps
> with at least the possibility of doing anything at all with it without
> worrying about voiding the warranty, thank you very much.
> 
> Mark
> ___

I could not agree more! I wouldn't buy a car from a manufacturer that
forced me to buy batteries, tires, service, etc. from it.

Rick B.

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Mark]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 2:23 PM, kenneth marken  wrote:
> Lake Stevens Dental wrote:
> more correctly the itouch uses a capacitive screen that reacts to the
> change in voltage when skin, or something with similar conductivity,
> comes into contact or very near.
>
> this then allows the ease of gesturing and other stuff we see in the
> interface of said device, as one do not have to maintain a minimum level
> of pressure on the surface of the screen. said requirements on resistive
> screens, like whats used everywhere else, means that one invoke the
> surface resistance of the finger, the very thing that allows one to hold
> onto something like a glass of water or other apparently smooth surface.
>
> im guessing, but i suspect that the double-press of the tablet screen
> comes from issues with registering no pressure. That is, if you suddenly
> have a drop in pressure followed by a increase, it may register that as
> two presses when it was just a movement of the finger or something of
> that nature.
>
> i would say that the single clever trick they did on the device, and its
> relative, was the selection of said screen.

Capacitive screens are nice for bare fingers, but if you're wearing
gloves they don't work. I'll take the pressure-sensitive screen any
day. I can use my gloved finger or the stylus when it's -10 degrees
and don't have to worry about frostbite, unlike the guy I saw at the
bus stop the other day...

I've been using my N800 tethered to my basic but bluetooth-enabled
phone for Internet access on the go, and I can do a heck of a lot of
stuff the iPhone can only dream about, even if hacked. If I want a
real keyboard, just fire up USB host mode, and type away at a speed
that no iPhone or tiny bluetooth keyboard can hope to do. They make
inexpensive compact USB keyboards in any configuration you could
possibly want, and keyboards work just fine with the limited power the
tablet can provide (even my Gyration wireless receiver works with no
other power). I now also have a battery-powered USB hub (that is as
small as most normal hubs) that can power the tablet as well as other
USB peripherals such as USB memory devices etc.

Apples are all about style over substance. If you want to join the
me-too crowd who wants to have what everyone else has, regardless of
whether it's actually worth anything, then by all means jump on the
Apple bandwagon. You won't actually own the device you paid for,
though. Apple will dictate to you what you can and cannot do with it.
Even if you crack it, the possibilities are far from wide open, and
you'll be in a world of hurt if you ever want something that's in the
official channels.

I'll take (relatively) open and a smaller range (but free) of apps
with at least the possibility of doing anything at all with it without
worrying about voiding the warranty, thank you very much.

Mark
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[kenneth marken]

Lake Stevens Dental wrote:
> Matt Emson wrote:
>   
>>   I can't agree with your comments ont he keyboard. The N800 on screen 
>> is extremely flakey and the layout is really annoying. I've played 
>> with a few iphones and found the onscreen far more precise and less 
>> prone to odd results. The entire Chinook line and first Diablo release 
>> was almost impossile to type with. I got constantly doubled 
>> characters. It seems to have improved witht he second and third Diablo 
>> release tho.
>> 
> To each his own on the keyboard layout.  I'm a stylus user on the n800.  
> In the here and now (like anyone really cares about the hassles of those 
> who use outdates OSs), I've not had much double typing issues with the 
> n800 with the stylus.  The Itouch appears to use a heat sensitive 
> screen, which means you can't use a stylus --  You've got to use your 
> chubby fingers. It is more sensitive than the n800.  Double keys don't 
> seem to be an issue on the Itouch as much as getting the key you want.  
> Like most anything, one's 'accuracy' seems to improve with time.  It may 
> be this is the reason the n800 double strokes have improved.  
>
>   
more correctly the itouch uses a capacitive screen that reacts to the 
change in voltage when skin, or something with similar conductivity, 
comes into contact or very near.

this then allows the ease of gesturing and other stuff we see in the 
interface of said device, as one do not have to maintain a minimum level 
of pressure on the surface of the screen. said requirements on resistive 
screens, like whats used everywhere else, means that one invoke the 
surface resistance of the finger, the very thing that allows one to hold 
onto something like a glass of water or other apparently smooth surface.

im guessing, but i suspect that the double-press of the tablet screen 
comes from issues with registering no pressure. that is, if you suddenly 
have a drop in pressure followed by a increase, it may register that as 
two presses when it was just a movement of the finger or something of 
that nature.

i would say that the single clever trick they did on the device, and its 
relative, was the selection of said screen.
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Lake Stevens Dental]

Gary wrote:
> Also, I'd have been hard pressed to by a Nokia tablet were netbooks on
> the market at the time I bought my N700 and N800s... esp. now that
> some of them are down to US$300.
>   
 My daughter had a netbook.  She had a hard time giving up her full 
sized laptop because when she wants to take a break from studies she 
just clicks on Sims2 and dives in.  Her laptop with a modest graphics 
set is pressed playing Sims 2.  A netbook would be further pressed, 
although it probably just a chipset and process upgrade away from 
crossing that barrier... 

  Long story short, I've ended up with her netbook.  I've played with 
Ubuntu, and XP Pro.  It sees light duty while browsing in bed and I need 
to type something more than what I want to do with the stylus on the 
n800 or YouTube a little smoother.  The touch screen is a lot easier to 
use in bed.  Getting my netbook better synced with my laptop (or 
desktop) might help, but I've not had the time to sort task that out.

 If someone starts out with a decent recent release netbook, I suppose 
that might be all one needs for many mobile/work applications.  It would 
seem to make a very nice small footprint workstation for many business 
applications.

-- 

Always, Dr Fred C
drfr...@drfredc.com

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Lake Stevens Dental]

Matt Emson wrote:
>   I can't agree with your comments ont he keyboard. The N800 on screen 
> is extremely flakey and the layout is really annoying. I've played 
> with a few iphones and found the onscreen far more precise and less 
> prone to odd results. The entire Chinook line and first Diablo release 
> was almost impossile to type with. I got constantly doubled 
> characters. It seems to have improved witht he second and third Diablo 
> release tho.
To each his own on the keyboard layout.  I'm a stylus user on the n800.  
In the here and now (like anyone really cares about the hassles of those 
who use outdates OSs), I've not had much double typing issues with the 
n800 with the stylus.  The Itouch appears to use a heat sensitive 
screen, which means you can't use a stylus --  You've got to use your 
chubby fingers. It is more sensitive than the n800.  Double keys don't 
seem to be an issue on the Itouch as much as getting the key you want.  
Like most anything, one's 'accuracy' seems to improve with time.  It may 
be this is the reason the n800 double strokes have improved.  

> Not true. I don't own one, but I know there are apps that will make 
> the ipod touch (not itouch) or iphone look like a file share on the 
> wireless network and transfer files. There's even a free one. This was 
> a question that came up on the last MacCast, so check that podcast out 
> for more info.

They are surely ways, if you break the 'lock' on the Touch OS.  Also, 
the Touch doesn't have bluetooth (so far as I know).  If you're dealing 
with a Bluetooth phone, file transfers are probably a given.If there 
is an Apple approved file manager/wireless transfer app for the Touch, 
it's not included in the generic release or not readily findable. 

There may be a free file transfer app in the Apple App store.  It seems 
there's a conscious decision to require users to have to visit it often 
for this and that -- the marketeers assumption is that you'll soon break 
down and start buying things.  With lots of apps costing less than a 
Starbucks, it's probably a good strategy for Apple and their numerous 
developers.
>> I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show patients xRays on 
>> my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs. Nothing like 
>> that is available on the Touch.  RDP is available IIRC. VNC is too.
You could be correct about there being something like this for the Touch 
in the Apple Store, or it could be an 'outside' app that requires 
breaking the 'lock'.  The Touch obviously has a capable computer under 
it's hood.  It's just not set up to give the impression of being able to 
open the hood...   There are hacks available, if you're into that sort 
of thing...

  BTW, there is one other thing I've noted about Safari and web pages on 
the Touch.  It seems to store pages offline so that when you click to 
load one of these pages, the page loads very quickly, instead of being 
dragged down off the web after all of the web connections are 
established.  IMHO, this would be a nice feature for the n800's browser 
to have, at least as a default option.  
>> This is entirely the reason not to bother comparing anything but the 
>> N800 without hacking or changing of "out of the box" purpose.
Agreed.  It's interesting to have two somewhat similar products.  The 
Touch approaches "the market at large" from the proprietary perspective, 
while the N800 approaches the "market at large" from the open source 
perspective.   Both could learn a bit from each other.   One thing I 
didn't mention about the Touch is how the more you use it, the more you 
may wish it was an Iphone, or one of the many clones that are filling 
the marketplace.   It would be nice to not have to be tethered to wifi 
to get all of it's features. 

Always, Dr Fred C
drfr...@drfredc.com

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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Gary]

Matt Emson wrote:
> This is entirely the reason not to bother comparing anything but the
> N800 without hacking or changing of "out of the box" purpose.

One could easily argue that several aspects of the tablet, including
red pill mode, are much the same as a pwned iPhone. I own both devices
and I use them both extensively. I've found that due to its size, the
iPhone is the device that gets put in my pocket more often and
therefore ends up being a portable google maps, note taker, gaming
device, video player (resume is excellent inside the ipod app) etc.
Also, as pointed out previously, network file sharing from the iPhone
are available from several apps like DataCase or AirSharing.

However, if I have serious work to do then I open up my Bluetooth
keyboard and use my tablet with SSH, vpnc, rdesktop, etc. I also find
the occasional Flash site that I can only access from my tablet. I
also find that the word hints with the virtual keyboard sometimes
makes for much faster typing than either with my BT keyboard or using
my thumb on my iPhone.

As a long time unix sysadmin, I've become accustomed to both closed
and open systems (hardware, firmware, OS, etc) and they both have
their advantages over each other. I think it's more of a personal
preference the same way some prefer European or Asian cars over
American cars. I can say this, though; if I hadn't already been an
AT&T customer with a data plan I might have bought an iPod Touch or
Android device instead of a 3G iPhone. I didn't buy the 1st gen iPhone
because I had to have the slightly faster network speed as an option
even though I often leave the 3G and GPS radios turned off.

Also, I'd have been hard pressed to by a Nokia tablet were netbooks on
the market at the time I bought my N700 and N800s... esp. now that
some of them are down to US$300.

-Gary
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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Matt Emson]

On 19 Dec 2008, at 22:49, lakestevensdental wrote:


I can't agree with your comments ont he keyboard. The N800 on screen  
is extremely flakey and the layout is really annoying. I've played  
with a few iphones and found the onscreen far more precise and less  
prone to odd results. The entire Chinook line and first Diablo release  
was almost impossile to type with. I got constantly doubled  
characters. It seems to have improved witht he second and third Diablo  
release tho.

>   I also regularly do wireless file
> transfers to and from my n800 and my (Windows) LAN, which is verbotten
> on the iTouch.


Not true. I don't own one, but I know there are apps that will make  
the ipod touch (not itouch) or iphone look like a file share on the  
wireless network and transfer files. There's even a free one. This was  
a question that came up on the last MacCast, so check that podcast out  
for more info.


> I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show
> patients xRays on my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs.
> Nothing like that is available on the Touch.


RDP is available IIRC. VNC is too. Which protocol is it that you  
require?


> While a PC can detect a connected Ipod Touch, you can't interact with
> the Touch via file manager so far as I've figured out.

There are apps to do this. They tend not to be able to put files in to  
the OS readable drive space though. But then, this doesn't work on any  
ipod. Apple removed the disk mode to deter people hacking the firmware.


> Everything
> between PC and Touch has to be done thru iTunes.  Basically, there no
> 'enduser' interaction with the inner workings of the iTouch.

It's a multimedia music player. It's not designed to be in the same  
sphere as the N8x0. They are *meant* to be general purpose.



>  Bottomline, the closed proprietary nature of ...

This is entirely the reason not to bother comparing anything but the  
N800 without hacking or changing of "out of the box" purpose.

M


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Re: Itouch v N8x0

[Aniello Del Sorbo]

Thanks.This is the best review/comparison I've ever read about the two.
And perfectly describes my feeling about the Apple products.

Aniello

2008/12/19 lakestevensdental 

> As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a
> promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal.  After
> week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be
> useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units.  I've had
> my n800 since spring 07.
>
>  First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design.  Big enough to view,
> small enough for the average pocket.  However, as part of this, it
> sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful
> to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.
>
>  The Touch's interface is also more 'fun' to use, although it's no where
> near as user configurable.  The motion sensitivity is nice as it self
> adjusts for vertical or horizontal viewing.  The ablity to zoom in or
> out with two finger touch screen sensitivity  is very nice.   The Touch
> screen keyboard is nothing to jump up and down about.  I found the n800s
> touch keyboard is easier to use. I miss the stylus on the Touch.
>
>  The Touch's Safari browser is a bit faster opening pages and generally
> does a slightly better job at YouTubing.  Safari also routinely opens
> pages in mobile format if that option is provided by the web site.  I'm
> not sure I always like this.  There seem to be some webpages that Safari
> doesn't handle well that the n800 browser plows thru just fine.
>
>  The Touch's (free and $) games are numerous and generally higher
> quality fun than n8x0 games, at least for the teen crowd.  The Touch
> does a decent job playing video podcasts.  It automatically sets
> bookmarks so you can pick up a podcast where you left off, days later,
> after you've viewed a lot of other 'stuff'.  I'm not sure any of the
> internet tablet's numerous players and interfaces do this very well.
>
> The Touch games (free and otherwise) don't do much for me. I've
> downloaded and played several -- splurged $5 for one game, a whole $ for
> another.   The motion sensitive games are kind of cool, if you're into
> that sort of thing.  I'm well adapted to the simple brain teasers
> puzzles and solitaire games on my n8x0, although I know there are other
> more arcade like n800 games out there.  Having a central Apple 'store'
> for shopping and downloading games makes it really easy to 'buy' apps
> and tunes.  One click pays and downloads.  Which helps move product
> along -- even if it's only a buck here or there... Supposedly, this
> helps produce higher quality apps and a broader growing marketplace.
>
>  In summary, the Touch is well designed for it's marketing niche.  That
> all said, I'm going to stick with the n8x0 and give the Touch to my teen
> age son.  It's a matter of what you use these 'gadgets' for.
>
>  I've not found the Touch to be very weak for RSS news browsing, which
> is perhaps my primary use for my n800.The n8x0 Claws email is much
> better suited for my use than the Touch's email program.  Also, I
> haven't figured out if there is a way to sync my Touch with Google
> Calendars as I have with my n8x0.  I also regularly do wireless file
> transfers to and from my n800 and my (Windows) LAN, which is verbotten
> on the iTouch.  I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show
> patients xRays on my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs.
> Nothing like that is available on the Touch.
>
>  While a PC can detect a connected Ipod Touch, you can't interact with
> the Touch via file manager so far as I've figured out.  Everything
> between PC and Touch has to be done thru iTunes.  Basically, there no
> 'enduser' interaction with the inner workings of the iTouch.   At least
> not unless you are willing to 'break' the various software locks that
> the iTouch has to protect it's proprietary nature.
>
>  Bottomline, the closed proprietary nature of the iTouch is both it's
> strength and weakness. It's like owning a car that you can't open up the
> hood on.  This is fine for some users, not for others.  For me, this
> makes the Touch more like a very nice toy, verses the n8x0, which is is
> more a of "tool" that can really do things.  I'm more of a tool junky...
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>



-- 
anidel
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Itouch v N8x0

[lakestevensdental]

As luck would have it, I recently came across an Ipod Touch 8G as a 
promo for participating in an online continuing ed podcast deal.  After 
week or so of playing around with in and my n800, I figure it might be 
useful to share my experiences and comparison of both units.  I've had 
my n800 since spring 07.

  First off, the Ipod Touch is much sleeker design.  Big enough to view, 
small enough for the average pocket.  However, as part of this, it 
sacrifices the stand and stereo speakers of the n800 that I find useful 
to listen to podcasts while eating breakfast viewing some web/rss page.

 The Touch's interface is also more 'fun' to use, although it's no where 
near as user configurable.  The motion sensitivity is nice as it self 
adjusts for vertical or horizontal viewing.  The ablity to zoom in or 
out with two finger touch screen sensitivity  is very nice.   The Touch 
screen keyboard is nothing to jump up and down about.  I found the n800s 
touch keyboard is easier to use. I miss the stylus on the Touch.

  The Touch's Safari browser is a bit faster opening pages and generally 
does a slightly better job at YouTubing.  Safari also routinely opens 
pages in mobile format if that option is provided by the web site.  I'm 
not sure I always like this.  There seem to be some webpages that Safari 
doesn't handle well that the n800 browser plows thru just fine. 

  The Touch's (free and $) games are numerous and generally higher 
quality fun than n8x0 games, at least for the teen crowd.  The Touch 
does a decent job playing video podcasts.  It automatically sets 
bookmarks so you can pick up a podcast where you left off, days later, 
after you've viewed a lot of other 'stuff'.  I'm not sure any of the 
internet tablet's numerous players and interfaces do this very well.  

The Touch games (free and otherwise) don't do much for me. I've 
downloaded and played several -- splurged $5 for one game, a whole $ for 
another.   The motion sensitive games are kind of cool, if you're into 
that sort of thing.  I'm well adapted to the simple brain teasers 
puzzles and solitaire games on my n8x0, although I know there are other 
more arcade like n800 games out there.  Having a central Apple 'store' 
for shopping and downloading games makes it really easy to 'buy' apps 
and tunes.  One click pays and downloads.  Which helps move product 
along -- even if it's only a buck here or there... Supposedly, this 
helps produce higher quality apps and a broader growing marketplace. 

 In summary, the Touch is well designed for it's marketing niche.  That 
all said, I'm going to stick with the n8x0 and give the Touch to my teen 
age son.  It's a matter of what you use these 'gadgets' for. 

  I've not found the Touch to be very weak for RSS news browsing, which 
is perhaps my primary use for my n800.The n8x0 Claws email is much 
better suited for my use than the Touch's email program.  Also, I 
haven't figured out if there is a way to sync my Touch with Google 
Calendars as I have with my n8x0.  I also regularly do wireless file 
transfers to and from my n800 and my (Windows) LAN, which is verbotten 
on the iTouch.  I also occasionally have used my n800 to help show 
patients xRays on my n800 via remote viewing of one of the clinic PCs.  
Nothing like that is available on the Touch.  

  While a PC can detect a connected Ipod Touch, you can't interact with 
the Touch via file manager so far as I've figured out.  Everything 
between PC and Touch has to be done thru iTunes.  Basically, there no 
'enduser' interaction with the inner workings of the iTouch.   At least 
not unless you are willing to 'break' the various software locks that 
the iTouch has to protect it's proprietary nature.  

  Bottomline, the closed proprietary nature of the iTouch is both it's 
strength and weakness. It's like owning a car that you can't open up the 
hood on.  This is fine for some users, not for others.  For me, this 
makes the Touch more like a very nice toy, verses the n8x0, which is is 
more a of "tool" that can really do things.  I'm more of a tool junky...  
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