Re: N810 is here
Krischan Keitsch schrieb: Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Ralph Angenendt: John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. Cheers, Ralph I couldn't agree more! Well, me too, though I think the issue is a little tight to the hardware. As you know the TI-DSP inside the TI-CPU is heavily used for decoding multi-media stuff. Most if the used codecs are heavily patent and license contaminated. This is not only a problem for Nokia but for all hardware manufacturers that want to deal with this kind of stuff. The process is tedious, long and hard to a) implement the codecs in a non-patent-vialoating way (i.e. follow the patent) and afterwards licensing (try to find out what an MP3 decoder will cost and you know my point here). So what most manufacturers do, since they are not the first ones to make this stuff, they rely on third parties to figure out all that stuff for them and then just buy the package. So what I assume what has happened is that Nokia simply bought/licensed a pre-configured package of codecs for the TI DSP. They will probably not have developed the codecs themselves, just the interface to them. This way they only have very little influence on the codecs, their number or which codecs they get. The most popular ones are of course included, like MP3 and AAC. But since there is no money to make with sublicensing OGG-Vorbis, there will only be little to none suppliers for a ready made TI-DSP OGG-Vorbis codec engine. So it did not make it into the product. The licensing argument that came up in another thread is probably just a misunderstanding. It could be meant like Since Nokia had to choose that package due to licening issues they were not able to individually pick additional codecs like Ogg. Some take-it-or-leave-it deal. That's my view on the status quo. Concerning the future I think that TI and Nokia could do more to help the community to fill the gap. There would be the possibility for the community to do this development on their own, i.e. write a DSP application doing OGG decoding. I can remembder that someone on the -dev mailinglist started this but cannot remember the name anymore, sorry. What Nokia could do to help here is to push TI more to release more development information to interested DSP core developers (and to the public of course). There is a DSP SDK available from TI, but buried down somewhere on some development page for which you have to sign up first before being able to download. The license agreement you have to sign during the process is anything than clear and might suggest that your are not allowed to develop something with this version that you intent to redistribute (even open source) - so only for internal evaluation. For a real developer license you have to buy the quite expensive software development kit. So also an official statement from TI would be needed that this SDK version can be used for open source development and that the resulting work can be freely distributed in source code and binary form. Only then Nokia can pick this up and include it in future products. Again this is my personal view from what I read on the MLs and from my experience with companies and licening... Krischan Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here -- whitout ogg support
Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Steve Greenland: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve A product such as internet tablets needs users (many users, not just oss enthusiasts) in order to get some traction on the market and to evolve. Therefore it makes sense to include mainstream media codex for non-developer costumers. On the other hand the internet tablets are not just commercial products but also a commitment by Nokia to support open source development ( see upstream projects such as hildon etc.). The business unit at Nokia taking care of the internet tablets have realiced that it reduces costs on the long run to participate on the open source development - taking and giving. So, we have a strong commitment from Nokia towards open source and nice internet tablets aiming at average users as well as linux power users and developers. The average user might not care as much about ogg support or not (keeping in mind that the number of ogg content on the web increases) but we linux power users do. And we have been asking for ogg (dsp based) support since the early 770 OS2005 days! I think the comunity would accept a clear no, we will not support ogg because ... by Nokia when they would release desperately needed information about the dsp and the source of the proprietary media player. Then the comunity could put the peaces together. It is always refreshing to take a look at the openmoko project, their mailing lists and wiki. So far there is 'just' a developer version of that open phone available, but the community is extremely creative and enthusiastic. They know where they are at - maybe it is because it is all about openness? Regards Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 15:14 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : Hi, ext Krischan Keitsch wrote: - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm This is clearly a different issue. That bug is about ogg/theora support for N770 Mediaplayer, not about Mediaplayer in newer releases supporting user installed codecs. Bug about this should be something like this: STEPS TO REPRODUCE: 1. Install code package codec-foo from repository bar 2. Browse to URL foo.bar.org/songs.html and tap to the song.foo file EXPECTED RESULT: - Mediaplayer starts to play nice-song.foo And to do that, we need expected to work but doesn't work ogg support package. And unfortunately, neither mogg or ogg-support packages are in this state for n800 (one lack schema and the other is not registering the correct mimetype) :( -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 12:11 +0200, Krischan Keitsch a écrit : Am Freitag, 19. Oktober 2007 schrieb Frederic Crozat: Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 11:59 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : So, there shouldn't be any need for any Maemo specific specs, these things are documented in upstream projects. There should still be a tutorial how to do these things though. Tutorial is already available in Maemo 3.x SDK documentation, but we aren't sure it is working as expected, because of mediaplayer blackbox. If there are still some problems after codec has been correctly registered to gstreamer and mime-type database: - gstreamer not recognizing the file type correctly I don't think it is the case, using : gst-launcher filesrc location=test.ogg ! decodebin ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink does work, so gstreamer is handling the file correctly. We are spinning in circles. We have been there too many times already! So, let's break the circle. Using incantation won't change things. I prefer action. - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? It is one part of the problem but even if we had the source, it wouldn't ensure the problem is fixed. And I'm not in a mood to blame Nokia for not releasing Media Player source code. It is part of their policy to not release code from UI based application, I respect that, even if I regret it. So, now, the important thing is either to find if the gconf configuration for Media Player is wrong and can be fixed or if the problem is in Media Player itself (help from some Nokia dudes welcome here, hint hint :) - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm I think you can drop this kind of reply. And I'm serious. This bring nowhere. As a sidenote, from my distribution persective (I'm GNOME maintainer at Mandriva), Maemo community fragmentation about packages and duplicated work is killing me :( There seems to be a lot of energy around there but often doing the thing or not using infrastructure available thanks to Garage (for instance, some people are only using garage as a way to ship files and don't store their source code in SVN). I have been wondering that as well many times. How come that this community is 'fragmented'? What is causing it? I don't think it is a problem of the community or infrastructure but more of a lack of common practices, which are already in place in various other distributions or project, from new people trying to work on Maemo-based software. -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 11:59 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : So, there shouldn't be any need for any Maemo specific specs, these things are documented in upstream projects. There should still be a tutorial how to do these things though. Tutorial is already available in Maemo 3.x SDK documentation, but we aren't sure it is working as expected, because of mediaplayer blackbox. If there are still some problems after codec has been correctly registered to gstreamer and mime-type database: - gstreamer not recognizing the file type correctly I don't think it is the case, using : gst-launcher filesrc location=test.ogg ! decodebin ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink does work, so gstreamer is handling the file correctly. - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately.. - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. Before filling bugs against maemo, I think it would be better to only have one ogg support package available for 770 / n800 (and soon n810) to make sure efforts are not duplicated. As a sidenote, from my distribution persective (I'm GNOME maintainer at Mandriva), Maemo community fragmentation about packages and duplicated work is killing me :( There seems to be a lot of energy around there but often doing the thing or not using infrastructure available thanks to Garage (for instance, some people are only using garage as a way to ship files and don't store their source code in SVN). -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (touch screen)
ext Alan Williamson wrote: Maybe a silly question, but is the N810 still a touch screen device? Yes. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Hi, ext Krischan Keitsch wrote: Am Mittwoch, 17. Oktober 2007 schrieb Collin R. Mulliner: OGG is only a nerd feature and also has other problems, so Nokia (and other companies) just don't care. Maybe somebody can make a plugin (also this won't utilize the DSP). I don't agree with ogg = nerd feature. Linux as an open and free platform is way beyond nerd-state. Ogg is also about openness and freedom. They share the same philosophy. The OS of our internet tablets is based upon Linux, isn't it? So why is there no support for ogg? By the way: every time a new stylish personal media player from china is shown on engadget you will find more and more players with support for flac and ogg vorbis. Hmm, something is changing? I think whether Nokia is going to support ogg or not is somewhat besides the point. What should be supported is: - Addition of support for new codecs to the system (works, but the repository situation could be better) - All applications immediately able to use the new codecs - User opening a file (in browser or filemanager) encoded with the new codec should automatically open it in the correct player - Documenting how to achieve this This way Nokia doesn't need to be a bottleneck in getting new codecs for the users; community, commercial companies etc could then do it. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederic Crozat schrieb: And to do that, we need expected to work but doesn't work ogg support package. And unfortunately, neither mogg or ogg-support packages are in this state for n800 (one lack schema and the other is not registering the correct mimetype) :( The mogg source is up in the download section and in svn and it's easy to repackage! I am more than happy about solutions/patches! I don't have an N800 to try it out! Tilman PS. Rant is a good start, but action and contributions cannot be substituted. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHGKwg9ZPu6Yae8lkRAlJlAJ4jK/AEZ3xSTg2UjS6ZR65E1MOYRQCggdse g2MUU5SbAfQdZuPsPgg72uw= =3uUJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Hi, ext Krischan Keitsch wrote: - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm This is clearly a different issue. That bug is about ogg/theora support for N770 Mediaplayer, not about Mediaplayer in newer releases supporting user installed codecs. Bug about this should be something like this: STEPS TO REPRODUCE: 1. Install code package codec-foo from repository bar 2. Browse to URL foo.bar.org/songs.html and tap to the song.foo file EXPECTED RESULT: - Mediaplayer starts to play nice-song.foo - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Am Freitag, 19. Oktober 2007 schrieb Frederic Crozat: Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 11:59 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : So, there shouldn't be any need for any Maemo specific specs, these things are documented in upstream projects. There should still be a tutorial how to do these things though. Tutorial is already available in Maemo 3.x SDK documentation, but we aren't sure it is working as expected, because of mediaplayer blackbox. If there are still some problems after codec has been correctly registered to gstreamer and mime-type database: - gstreamer not recognizing the file type correctly I don't think it is the case, using : gst-launcher filesrc location=test.ogg ! decodebin ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink does work, so gstreamer is handling the file correctly. We are spinning in circles. We have been there too many times already! - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm Before filling bugs against maemo, I think it would be better to only have one ogg support package available for 770 / n800 (and soon n810) to make sure efforts are not duplicated. Yepp! Convergence instead of parallel efforts! Time to puzzle should be over in order to mature this platform. As a sidenote, from my distribution persective (I'm GNOME maintainer at Mandriva), Maemo community fragmentation about packages and duplicated work is killing me :( There seems to be a lot of energy around there but often doing the thing or not using infrastructure available thanks to Garage (for instance, some people are only using garage as a way to ship files and don't store their source code in SVN). I have been wondering that as well many times. How come that this community is 'fragmented'? What is causing it? Regards Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Am Mittwoch, 17. Oktober 2007 schrieb Collin R. Mulliner: OGG is only a nerd feature and also has other problems, so Nokia (and other companies) just don't care. Maybe somebody can make a plugin (also this won't utilize the DSP). I don't agree with ogg = nerd feature. Linux as an open and free platform is way beyond nerd-state. Ogg is also about openness and freedom. They share the same philosophy. The OS of our internet tablets is based upon Linux, isn't it? So why is there no support for ogg? By the way: every time a new stylish personal media player from china is shown on engadget you will find more and more players with support for flac and ogg vorbis. Hmm, something is changing? Regards Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. Cheers, Ralph pgpH1L2cI4u3I.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Krischan Keitsch wrote: Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb John Rudd: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? confused ??? Sorry John, I didn't get your point. What does ogg support have to do with Europe / America? /confused Just trying to figure out why OGG seems to be a non-issue among people I interact with regularly, but a big issue for some others. It was just a hunch that it might be another difference in media formats between here and there (which do happen every so often). However, we can't have enough codex, eh? Choice is good. But wanting one more media is different from trashing one (popular) media format with rant inducing requests for another one. Especially when I'm not aware of any real media source that only uses OGG (thus making the only way to access their content being support OGG). So I was just asking why I would want to support OGG at the expense of AAC. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Ralph Angenendt wrote: John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Pretty simple: why should I be upset (or sympathetic to the upset that Kahlil was expressing by trashing another format) about the lack of OGG support, or the presence of AAC support. Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with America/Europe. The question was asking _does_ it have something to do with America/Europe ... as in, I'm trying to figure out why OGG support would be so important as to induce the comments Kahlil made. And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Given all of the other things that are on Nokia's plate for the internet tablet development, why should OGG be a priority? What thing only comes in OGG format, that they need to support now, instead of later? Or that they need to support directly, instead of leaving to the efforts of 3rd party support? I'm as interested in open and free as the next person, but there's nothing about the comment I was replying to that captures that. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. I don't either. But that's clearly not what the initial request was about, or it wouldn't have also attacked another format. By asserting a value judgment about AAC vs OGG, that then leaves the question of what value is actually being implied in that assertion. If the person just wanted another format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. If they just wanted an open/free format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On 10/18/07, John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ralph Angenendt wrote: John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Pretty simple: why should I be upset (or sympathetic to the upset that Kahlil was expressing by trashing another format) about the lack of OGG support, or the presence of AAC support. Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with America/Europe. The question was asking _does_ it have something to do with America/Europe ... as in, I'm trying to figure out why OGG support would be so important as to induce the comments Kahlil made. And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Given all of the other things that are on Nokia's plate for the internet tablet development, why should OGG be a priority? What thing only comes in OGG format, that they need to support now, instead of later? Or that they need to support directly, instead of leaving to the efforts of 3rd party support? Well for one OGG is the default audio format for Linux. FLAC and OGG are almost supported by default under the Gstreamer framework which is what Maemo used for it's audio (AFAIK). The development of yet another audio player exclusively for OGG seems a waste of development. Adding ogg to gstreamer and enabling the media player to recognize the format looks like an easier development and less confusing for it's users. If I get a 3rd party app for OGG I will need to split my playlists that includes Mp3 / OGG. From a User Experience it just deteriorate not having OGG support. As for what is being distributed on OGG-only format. Most of the podcast that I listen to I get the OGG feed for them. Podcast are one of the internet's best growing initatives in audio consumption and having a Linux handheld that can be used as a media player and not support a primarily Linux standard seems like a bad design decision. What things come in AAC only form now? I'm as interested in open and free as the next person, but there's nothing about the comment I was replying to that captures that. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. I don't either. But that's clearly not what the initial request was about, or it wouldn't have also attacked another format. By asserting a value judgment about AAC vs OGG, that then leaves the question of what value is actually being implied in that assertion. AAC was an example, could have pic another proprietary format other than MP3. Sure Mp3 is the commercial standard for audio but it doesn't just support mp3 but other formats, formats that are even less used. If the person just wanted another format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. If they just wanted an open/free format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. Well OGG support has been requested many times in this list. Having to ask for support of OGG wouldn't be my main complain but that they not just have ignored the support for OGG but also expanding to other formats that doesn't necessarily add value to me. In other words, why you give me bacon when I been asking you for more lettuce for almost 2 years now? Now just to finish my soapbox, I wonder how really open is this apps. We all know the framework is open but can you just submit a patch to the default media player that maemo comes with and expect to have the change implement on the next version? -- Kahlil Johnson Ya tengo GMAIL!! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Dev program - http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html On 10/17/07, Sergey Udaltsov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will there be developer's device program, like for n800? Cheers, Sergey ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On 10/18/07, Jonathan Greene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Care to expand on this point? Which licensing issues? (from Xiph's FAQ for Vorbis -- http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#flic) What licensing applies to the Ogg Vorbis format? The Ogg Vorbis specification is in the public domain. It is completely free for commercial or noncommercial use. That means that commercial developers may independently write Ogg Vorbis software which is compatible with the specification for no charge and without restrictions of any kind. However, the software packages we have developed are available under various free/open-source software licenses with varying allowances and restrictions. What licensing applies to the included Ogg Vorbis software? Most (but not all) of our utility software is released under the terms of the GNU GPL. The libraries and SDKs are released under our BSD-like license. Note that developers are still free to use the specification to write implementations of Ogg Vorbis licensed under other terms. -- =Wayne ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Why the heck would they remove the FM Radio? And go down to 1 memory slot? I guess that one could be because of the placement of the keyboard. It sure would be nice if we could charge from the USB and host unpowered on the USB. I assume that the hosting is a question of support and battery life. Gary Baribault Courriel: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key: 0x4346F013 GPG Fingerprint: BCE8 2E6B EB39 9B23 6904 1DF4 C4E6 2CF7 4346 F013 Jonathan Greene wrote: Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, *Steve Greenland* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: N810 is here
Jonathan, thanks for the updates! Nick. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Greene Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:38 AM To: maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: N810 is here Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, Steve Greenland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
The radio was cut as it did not fit ... Same on the memory slots and the card type On 10/18/07, Gary Baribault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why the heck would they remove the FM Radio? And go down to 1 memory slot? I guess that one could be because of the placement of the keyboard. It sure would be nice if we could charge from the USB and host unpowered on the USB. I assume that the hosting is a question of support and battery life. Gary Baribault Courriel: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key: 0x4346F013 GPG Fingerprint: BCE8 2E6B EB39 9B23 6904 1DF4 C4E6 2CF7 4346 F013 Jonathan Greene wrote: Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, *Steve Greenland* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Vorbis support would be excellent (as would speex for voip and theora for video) but I suspect for Nokia the majority of people that buy the Tablets wouldn't know what any of them are let alone probably care. Ultimately the continued development of the Internet Tablets, OS 200x and maemo by Nokia depends on whether they make money or not so for the mainstream wma and aac is probably more of a focus for them. On the flipside of the above I've seen posts of people on the mailing list getting basic DSP processing up and running (G711 from memory), there's the fixed point implementation of vorbis (called Tremor http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/Tremor) which had notes and details on the mailing list regarding the TI DSP so it probably wouldn't take someone with some experience in this plus some gstreamer (I'm sure some of the GST devs would be able to 'assist' (by this I mean helping with the GST interface to the DSP if there isn't details available already) with this as some have worked with nokia on these devices). Then there's the DSP Gateway site http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/pub/index.php which has details of programming them too. So when it comes down to it most of the required/hard parts of vorbis support (and probably speex to as it too has fixed point DSP implementations) are already there. It just needs some smart programmers to bolt the required bits together not being one of those I don't know what exactly is required but I don't remember anyone try it on the mailing list other than the G711 (... I think) example. Pete ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
According to Peter Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Vorbis support would be excellent (as would speex for voip and theora for video) but I suspect for Nokia the majority of people that buy the Tablets wouldn't know what any of them are let alone probably care. Ultimately the continued development of the Internet Tablets, OS 200x and maemo by Nokia depends on whether they make money or not so for the mainstream wma and aac is probably more of a focus for them. Oh, sure, I know that. Even I have much higher priority items for Nokia to get working on, things 3rd parties can't do, like getting proper Debian upgrades working (flash the ROM, feh!). [vorbis/tremor and DSP] So when it comes down to it most of the required/hard parts of vorbis support (and probably speex to as it too has fixed point DSP implementations) are already there. It just needs some smart programmers to bolt the required bits together Actually, it's already done -- both ogg-support and mogg seem to use the tremor implementation (although maybe not on the DSP). It's a little confusing to get working right now (see my ranty review), but a little cleanup and things will be quite usable. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 08:39:10PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: So when it comes down to it most of the required/hard parts of vorbis support (and probably speex to as it too has fixed point DSP implementations) are already there. It just needs some smart programmers to bolt the required bits together not being one of those I don't know what exactly is required but I don't remember anyone try it on the mailing list other than the G711 (... I think) example. Check out the other thread (Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support). People are bolting the bits together, it's just hard to get it right. Marius Gedminas -- Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Ralph Angenendt: John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. Cheers, Ralph I couldn't agree more! Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
N810 is here
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.comas well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on flickr - user atmasphere On 10/17/07, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Subject: N810 is here ... but where is ITOS2008?! I definitely want to install it on my *old* N800... -- Laurent, Nantes (FR) - http://blog.lmartin.fr Apple MacBook Pro 15 Nokia Internet Tablet N800 Palm Treo 650 (unlocked GSM) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
and?!?!!?! :@) whats it like? what has it that the N800 has been begging for? (execpt the keyboard that is!) and when will it available in Europe? Jonathan Greene wrote: it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp http://atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.com http://maemoapps.com as well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on flickr - user atmasphere ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
wen the device arrives in final form it should be there as well. 4-5 weeks... On 10/17/07, Laurent MARTIN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: N810 is here ... but where is ITOS2008?! I definitely want to install it on my *old* N800... -- *Laurent*, Nantes (FR) - *http://blog.lmartin.fr*http://blog.lmartin.fr/ *Apple MacBook Pro 15* *Nokia Internet Tablet N800* *Palm Treo 650 (unlocked GSM)* ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Jonathan it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.com as well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on Jonathan flickr - user atmasphere Any idea when/how I can get one (I am in Canada)? --daniel Jonathan On 10/17/07, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users Jonathan -- Jonathan Jonathan Greene Jonathan +1.914.750.8740 Jonathan AIM / iChat - atmasphere Jonathan gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jonathan Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene Jonathan blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com Jonathan ___ Jonathan maemo-users mailing list Jonathan maemo-users@maemo.org Jonathan https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- -- Daniel M. German http://turingmachine.org/ http://silvernegative.com/ dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca replace (at) with @ and (dot) with . ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 02:42:17PM -0500, Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. I've heard rumours are Nokia won't ever include ogg support because they're scared of the (supposedly nonexistent) patents (and that after lobbying hard to make software patents lawful in the EU; which, thanfully, didn't happen). Marius Gedminas -- Voodoo Programming: Things programmers do that they know shouldn't work but they try anyway, and which sometimes actually work, such as recompiling everything. -- Karl Lehenbauer signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
no idea guys ... a least a month away. On 10/17/07, Daniel M German [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.com as well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on Jonathan flickr - user atmasphere Any idea when/how I can get one (I am in Canada)? --daniel Jonathan On 10/17/07, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users Jonathan -- Jonathan Jonathan Greene Jonathan +1.914.750.8740 Jonathan AIM / iChat - atmasphere Jonathan gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jonathan Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene Jonathan blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com Jonathan ___ Jonathan maemo-users mailing list Jonathan maemo-users@maemo.org Jonathan https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- -- Daniel M. German http://turingmachine.org/ http://silvernegative.com/ dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca replace (at) with @ and (dot) with . ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. On 10/17/07, Jonathan Greene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no idea guys ... a least a month away. On 10/17/07, Daniel M German [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.com as well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on Jonathan flickr - user atmasphere Any idea when/how I can get one (I am in Canada)? --daniel Jonathan On 10/17/07, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users Jonathan -- Jonathan Jonathan Greene Jonathan +1.914.750.8740 Jonathan AIM / iChat - atmasphere Jonathan gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jonathan Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene Jonathan blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com Jonathan ___ Jonathan maemo-users mailing list Jonathan maemo-users@maemo.org Jonathan https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- -- Daniel M. German http://turingmachine.org/ http://silvernegative.com/ dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca replace (at) with @ and (dot) with . ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Kahlil Johnson Ya tengo GMAIL!! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Jonathan, who cares about the keyboardis the Nokia carrying case for the 810 available (and not just in cyberspace)? Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC *Serving the SmartDigital^TM home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging network service provider markets* * * Alan Williamson wrote: and?!?!!?! :@) whats it like? what has it that the N800 has been begging for? (execpt the keyboard that is!) and when will it available in Europe? Jonathan Greene wrote: it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp http://atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.com http://maemoapps.com as well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on flickr - user atmasphere ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 14:42 -0500, Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Did they leave the FM radio in? I really like that feature on my n800? No OGG is just plain weird, yup. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Will there be developer's device program, like for n800? Cheers, Sergey ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Now - Carrying case!, That one I need too. Are there any Vegan ( non - leather carrying cases ) for N800 ? Thats one thing I need very bad :(. Thanks Rajesh Acadia Secure Networks wrote: Jonathan, who cares about the keyboardis the Nokia carrying case for the 810 available (and not just in cyberspace)? Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC *Serving the SmartDigital^TM home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging network service provider markets* * * Alan Williamson wrote: and?!?!!?! :@) whats it like? what has it that the N800 has been begging for? (execpt the keyboard that is!) and when will it available in Europe? Jonathan Greene wrote: it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp http://atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.com http://maemoapps.com as well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on flickr - user atmasphere ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Did they leave the FM radio in? I really like that feature on my n800? No OGG is just plain weird, yup. OGG is only a nerd feature and also has other problems, so Nokia (and other companies) just don't care. Maybe somebody can make a plugin (also this won't utilize the DSP). -- Collin R. Mulliner [EMAIL PROTECTED] BETAVERSiON Systems [www.betaversion.net] info/pgp: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] hack (hak) n., a clever solution to an interesting problem. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Collin R. Mulliner schrieb: Did they leave the FM radio in? I really like that feature on my n800? No OGG is just plain weird, yup. OGG is only a nerd feature and also has other problems, so Nokia (and other companies) just don't care. Maybe somebody can make a plugin (also this won't utilize the DSP). Which other problems do you refer to? Tilman -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHFoI89ZPu6Yae8lkRAiSsAKCI6rGOV3q/fDzpa84j8RxpY3to2wCdEBiy DNz9VKd+7ZOnRybdTorE8Dk= =lVkI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here: 45hrs!?!?
read this on http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1160660 No need, the Nokia N810 offers up to 45 hours of music playback how on earth are they getting that!??!?! My N800 can barely last 8hrs on the current battery; so what improves has gone here i wonder -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here: 45hrs!?!?
I think the 45 hours simply refers to how much music they think you should be able to fit on the built-in memory (notice it says No Wi-Fi connection on your journey? No need, the Nokia N810 offers up to 45 hours of music playback...). On 10/17/07, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: read this on http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1160660 No need, the Nokia N810 offers up to 45 hours of music playback how on earth are they getting that!??!?! My N800 can barely last 8hrs on the current battery; so what improves has gone here i wonder -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here: 45hrs!?!?
On Oct 17, 2007, at 6:33 PM, David Leinbach wrote: I think the 45 hours simply refers to how much music they think you should be able to fit on the built-in memory (notice it says No Wi- Fi connection on your journey? No need, the Nokia N810 offers up to 45 hours of music playback...). Here's a quick chart of battery capacities: iPhone: 24h of music, 1.4 Ah battery: 17h / Ah (17 hours per amp-hour) iPod Shuffle: 12h of music, 0.22 Ah battery: 55h / Ah Potential: Nokia N810: 45h of music, 1.5 Ah battery: 30h / Ah I think those numbers make it clear that 45 hours of music-only direct from flash is somewhat plausible. I'm sure it would require very careful hardware and software integration, of course, but it could be done. Thanks, gopi. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
All, kidding aside, I have to say that, as I would expect from Nokia, if the product ,once launched, meets or exceeds spec, then Nokia has indeed proven itself as a fast learning organization with this product by a) adding some key functional capabilities that those on this list have vocalized during the last two years and b) turning a significantly updated (faster and better, if not cheaper) hardware platform in less than 12 months. It would be nice to know how much longer before the WIMAX version of the product is released. But, hey, maybe the Intel WIMAX chipset is there in the 810 and is simply awaiting a future firmware upgrade. On the other hand, because WIMAX is still somewhat early days and, therefore, balkanized in its deployment around the world, Nokia may be planning to launch a distinct version for the (increasing number of) markets that are deploying WIMAX services. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC * * *Serving the SmartDigital^TM home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging network service provider markets* Acadia Secure Networks wrote: Jonathan, who cares about the keyboardis the Nokia carrying case for the 810 available (and not just in cyberspace)? Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC *Serving the SmartDigital^TM home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging network service provider markets* * * Alan Williamson wrote: and?!?!!?! :@) whats it like? what has it that the N800 has been begging for? (execpt the keyboard that is!) and when will it available in Europe? Jonathan Greene wrote: it's in my pocket! a few videos here - atmasphere.net/wp http://atmasphere.net/wp and maemoapps.com http://maemoapps.com as well as some poorly shot pics I raced to post on flickr - user atmasphere ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 08:19:36PM +0100, Alan Williamson wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ -- Can it listen to a (self-powered) USB keyboard? -- hendrik ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Can the n810 be powered by usb? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
