Re: Nokia netbook
On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 09:14:14PM -0400, hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote: How do you use accelerometer on a netbook? You program it to park the hard disk heads when the accelerometer readings warrant. ThinkPads do exactly that: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Active_Protection_System There's also a driver which creates a joystick device using the accelerometer, although this is probably not so useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JE2Np45h0o Imagination is the only limit ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFi40HKFBZE Berto ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental lakestevensden...@verizon.net writes: Gary wrote: lakestevensdental wrote: but there's no Linux marketing agent to sit down at the table with Nokia and some cell provider to cut a deal. These companies would probably disagree: http://www.canonical.com/partners http://www.novell.com/linux/partners.html http://www.xandros.com/products/oem/ http://www.redhat.com/partners/hardwarepartners http://www.mandriva.com/enterprise/en/partners/oem Not to disrespect the good work these folks do, they just don't have the marketing clout of having Microsoft sitting at the table on your side talking to some big telecom company. As much as Linux folks wish to believe otherwsie, it's marketing, not necessarily function, that guides most of the marketplace growth. Witness how VHS beat out Beta in video tape, though Beta was a better product. Microsoft has firmly taken over IBMs 1980s acronym of Inferior But Marketable. This nitpicking about Linux vs MS OS offerings aside, IMHO, Linux is never going to make its mark as a major market OS until somehow it offers a top end gaming platform equal to (and ideally compatible with) what Microsoft offers the PC world. Linux folks should just be glad that the marketing wizards at Microsoft haven't figured out they could go a long ways to crushing the Linux world out of existance and reasserting themselves as the dominant player if they offered their lastest OS as an upgrade for something like $25/unit to all END USERS (not just OEMs). With such a move, MS could quickly consolidate virtually all of it's market to a single OS for it to manage instead of 3 or 4 different OSs with 3 or more flavors a piece. Thankfully, they seem lost in the forest as much as anyone on some issues... I wouldn't use Windows if it was offered for free. A lot of people get new versions of Windows free with new computer and still install Ubuntu. The price of the license is far from the only reason people choose Linux over Windows. From my opinion, you couldn't be more wrong :) -- I think of lotteries as a tax on the mathematically challenged. - Roger Jones ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 03:35:29PM -0700, Alexandru Cardaniuc wrote: How do you use accelerometer on a netbook? You program it to park the hard disk heads when the accelerometer readings warrant. -- hendrik ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Am Dienstag, den 01.09.2009, 17:50 -0700 schrieb lakestevensdental: This nitpicking about Linux vs MS OS offerings aside, IMHO, Linux is never going to make its mark as a major market OS until somehow it offers a top end gaming platform equal to (and ideally compatible with) what Microsoft offers the PC world. Ah yes, compatibility with solitare has been on the todo list for ages. Linux folks should just be glad that the marketing wizards at Microsoft haven't figured out they could go a long ways to crushing the Linux world out of existance and reasserting themselves as the dominant player if they offered their lastest OS as an upgrade for something like $25/unit to all END USERS (not just OEMs). With such a move, MS could quickly consolidate virtually all of it's market to a single OS for it to manage instead of 3 or 4 different OSs with 3 or more flavors a piece. Thankfully, they seem lost in the forest as much as anyone on some issues... So how come linux devices probably outnumber windows devices? (DSL-)Router, NAS/SAN, Hard disc recorders,network printers etc.. Oh, it doesnt come with a powered by linux sticker. Doesnt mean its not there. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Am Donnerstag, den 03.09.2009, 13:16 -0700 schrieb lakestevensdental: So how come linux devices probably outnumber windows devices? (DSL-)Router, NAS/SAN, Hard disc recorders,network printers etc.. Oh, it doesnt come with a powered by linux sticker. Doesnt mean its not there. You seem to be confusing end-user software markets with utility/geek markets. They are different markets. No, i´m not. Most dsl-router run linux. So most people have a linux box (even if they dont frequently use the web interface). Hard disc recorders arent exactly a geek tool either, neither are Tom-Toms. So, no i´m not confusing the markets, otherwise i might have pointed out that most of the top 500 supercomputers run linux. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
it has an accelerometer and long battery life but I would immediately swap out the 4200 rpm hard drive... http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/02/more-nokia-booklet-3g-specs-emerge-at-nokia-world-09/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
sean wrote: What will make the Nokia Netbook any more unique then some other model? It will be the first line of netbooks abandoned by it's maker and left up to user support? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Alexandru Cardaniuc wrote: So, how do you explain other companies selling netbooks with Linux? They don't know what they are doing? It's a marketing/business decision. If the company feels there's sufficient market to support the extra hassles of inventory management of Linux units, and it makes business sense, For all I know, MS and Nokia may have negotiated getting an extra break on an MS OS netbook line if MS has an exclusive OS arrangement for Nokia netbooks... These sorts of arrangements allow both companies to develop and market this netbook project without fear of confusing the market with incompatible units. I suppose it's possible MS and Nokia may be looking at offering something like ATT is offering with a netbook with cell phone internet built in and bundling it with some cell phone service... Stuff that's technically possible with an of a variety of Linux distros, but there's no Linux marketing agent to sit down at the table with Nokia and some cell provider to cut a deal. Free Linux OSs are great, but they offer little to no marketing advantage in these sorts of situations. I'm not sure what your big deal is. This weekend I got fed up with Windows 7 on one of my build-boxes and overwrote the entire HD with Ubuntu. It's a dead simple download and install process. Or just buy one of the other netbooks that comes with Linux. It's not like they are cheaper with Linux... For all I know, your Linux netbook might have ubuntu 8 and you'll soon decide to download and install a Ubuntu 9... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental wrote: but there's no Linux marketing agent to sit down at the table with Nokia and some cell provider to cut a deal. These companies would probably disagree: http://www.canonical.com/partners http://www.novell.com/linux/partners.html http://www.xandros.com/products/oem/ http://www.redhat.com/partners/hardwarepartners http://www.mandriva.com/enterprise/en/partners/oem ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Gary wrote: lakestevensdental wrote: but there's no Linux marketing agent to sit down at the table with Nokia and some cell provider to cut a deal. These companies would probably disagree: http://www.canonical.com/partners http://www.novell.com/linux/partners.html http://www.xandros.com/products/oem/ http://www.redhat.com/partners/hardwarepartners http://www.mandriva.com/enterprise/en/partners/oem Not to disrespect the good work these folks do, they just don't have the marketing clout of having Microsoft sitting at the table on your side talking to some big telecom company. As much as Linux folks wish to believe otherwsie, it's marketing, not necessarily function, that guides most of the marketplace growth. Witness how VHS beat out Beta in video tape, though Beta was a better product. Microsoft has firmly taken over IBMs 1980s acronym of Inferior But Marketable. This nitpicking about Linux vs MS OS offerings aside, IMHO, Linux is never going to make its mark as a major market OS until somehow it offers a top end gaming platform equal to (and ideally compatible with) what Microsoft offers the PC world. Linux folks should just be glad that the marketing wizards at Microsoft haven't figured out they could go a long ways to crushing the Linux world out of existance and reasserting themselves as the dominant player if they offered their lastest OS as an upgrade for something like $25/unit to all END USERS (not just OEMs). With such a move, MS could quickly consolidate virtually all of it's market to a single OS for it to manage instead of 3 or 4 different OSs with 3 or more flavors a piece. Thankfully, they seem lost in the forest as much as anyone on some issues... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental lakestevensden...@verizon.net writes: But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. You're not making any sense whatsoever. It doesn't cost anything for them to maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines - all they have to do is skip a few steps in manufacturing - and the number of Windows machines they sell just makes it that much easier for them to give a discount for OS-less machines. After all, you don't actually think they're making Windows available at cost, do you? Spoken like someone who's never produced anything, nor had to manage inventory. For those making and selling netbooks, the cost of the OS is probably some variation of a 'loss leader'. Bundled with Windows one may sell a lot more product, which allows production, development and marketing costs per unit to be significantly reduced, more than the cost of adding Windows. It costs plenty for everyone from Nokia to the computer store to create and maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines that might otherwise be sold bundled with Windows. For one, banks (and/or production/outsource folks) don't sit around waiting for months for a small inventory of Linux units to be sold to get paid off. If it were a hassle to install Ubuntu on a Windows netbook, you might have a point, but such isn't the case. If you want Linux netbook, buy a Windows netbook, download Ubuntu and install (perhaps 3 clicks?). It's not rocket science. ___ So, how do you explain other companies selling netbooks with Linux? They don't know what they are doing? -- The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. - Mark Twain (1835-1910) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental lakestevensden...@verizon.net writes: You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. The hassle you speak of comes from dealing with an 800 pound gorilla that has historically only been reigned in by the Commission of the European Communities. ... The hassle has little to do with Microsoft, everything to do with production realities, mass markets and managing inventory. Asus plowed the road for everyone with their eee netbook which first came out with a Linux distro. While the eee was popular new format, the eee-netbooks only really took off when Windows XP was offered as the OS of choice. Right. I thought MS jumped on the wagon, because netbooks with Linux became popular. Apparently not so... When bundled with Windows, the cost of netbooks actually dropped because production numbers increased allowing development costs to being shared amongst thousands more units. OK. Then me seeing Linux-based EEE PC cheaper than Windows-based ones is probably a problem with my eyes. Funny thing, MS had to convince Asus that selling EEE PC based on Windows exclusively is in Asus' own interest. I guess Asus didn't know what they were doing... Like many, I wish the market would embrace one of the Linux versions instead of Windoze. MS (author of the world's largest computer virus) seems to be doing all it can do to promote the development of other OSs with it's Vista debacle, soon to be replaced by a W7 debacle (IMHO). Seems to me, the primary technical thing that is probably holding adoption of Linux back has more do with the lack of a strong gaming/video platform on Linux to fill the DirectX niche. Not everyone is playing games on PCs. Looking at the size of the gaming industry and PCs share of it, it definitely isn't so. The majority of users are not playing games. Beyond that, Linux folks need to learn to better embrace the marketplace. Linux folks don't really care about the marketplace. Or I can say it differently, the market share is not a priority for Linux. Linux is not a company. It's not making money. It doesn't have to report revenue. People are involved in Linux development because they themselves use it. So, as long as there will be a minimum number of people, number enough to continue development and support it, Linux will exist. Market share is not important here. One mln users or 10mln doesn't really help Linux development, because the majority of users are not involved in its development. Of course, market share increases hardware support. But as Apple's case shows a couple of percent is enough for that. Freeware (like the 400 or so apps of varied utility and use populating the n810 and Maemo) is all fine and good, but average endusers are much more inclined to the comfort of marketplaces like the AppleStore where then can click and download 'almost' free games and apps for about the price of a latte or less. Again, I am not sure Linux developers actually care about the average enduser so much. It's not the priority. Contrary to common Linux beliefs, there's nothing wrong with offering a simple cost effective marketplace for folks to buy software. It helps pay developers to develop more and better software. Linux is again way behind the curve in marketplace savy. Witness how the n800 series came without (and still pretty much lacks) a decent PIM. Like what the reward for someone to port a PIM to this small market niche? Never heard about this common Linux belief. Probably missed it... -- Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes. - Unknown ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
What will make the Nokia Netbook any more unique then some other model? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, Gary wrote: Matan Ziv-Av wrote: Almost all GPRS/UMTS/HSPA modems appear to the CPU as a serial device and need standard AT commands for connection management. Oh yeah -- I forgot about that. There's a way to use those modems with OS X that involve some configuration of PPP. Is that the same way a connection is initiated under Linux? Yes. Exactly like an analog modem - a few AT commands for establishing the connection and then PPP. Again, that is how most chipsets work. I know of one counterexample, but there may be other. -- Matan. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Gary wrote: lakestevensdental wrote: You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. The hassle you speak of comes from dealing with an 800 pound gorilla that has historically only been reigned in by the Commission of the European Communities. ... The hassle has little to do with Microsoft, everything to do with production realities, mass markets and managing inventory. Asus plowed the road for everyone with their eee netbook which first came out with a Linux distro. While the eee was popular new format, the eee-netbooks only really took off when Windows XP was offered as the OS of choice. When bundled with Windows, the cost of netbooks actually dropped because production numbers increased allowing development costs to being shared amongst thousands more units. Like many, I wish the market would embrace one of the Linux versions instead of Windoze. MS (author of the world's largest computer virus) seems to be doing all it can do to promote the development of other OSs with it's Vista debacle, soon to be replaced by a W7 debacle (IMHO). Seems to me, the primary technical thing that is probably holding adoption of Linux back has more do with the lack of a strong gaming/video platform on Linux to fill the DirectX niche. Beyond that, Linux folks need to learn to better embrace the marketplace. Freeware (like the 400 or so apps of varied utility and use populating the n810 and Maemo) is all fine and good, but average endusers are much more inclined to the comfort of marketplaces like the AppleStore where then can click and download 'almost' free games and apps for about the price of a latte or less. Contrary to common Linux beliefs, there's nothing wrong with offering a simple cost effective marketplace for folks to buy software. It helps pay developers to develop more and better software. Linux is again way behind the curve in marketplace savy. Witness how the n800 series came without (and still pretty much lacks) a decent PIM. Like what the reward for someone to port a PIM to this small market niche? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Mark Haury wrote: lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. You're not making any sense whatsoever. It doesn't cost anything for them to maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines - all they have to do is skip a few steps in manufacturing - and the number of Windows machines they sell just makes it that much easier for them to give a discount for OS-less machines. After all, you don't actually think they're making Windows available at cost, do you? Spoken like someone who's never produced anything, nor had to manage inventory. For those making and selling netbooks, the cost of the OS is probably some variation of a 'loss leader'. Bundled with Windows one may sell a lot more product, which allows production, development and marketing costs per unit to be significantly reduced, more than the cost of adding Windows. It costs plenty for everyone from Nokia to the computer store to create and maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines that might otherwise be sold bundled with Windows. For one, banks (and/or production/outsource folks) don't sit around waiting for months for a small inventory of Linux units to be sold to get paid off. If it were a hassle to install Ubuntu on a Windows netbook, you might have a point, but such isn't the case. If you want Linux netbook, buy a Windows netbook, download Ubuntu and install (perhaps 3 clicks?). It's not rocket science. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009, Gary wrote: The catch will be whether they release drivers for the HSPA broadband chipset ... Drivers for the HSPA chipset? Almost all GPRS/UMTS/HSPA modems appear to the CPU as a serial device and need standard AT commands for connection management. The only exception I know of are HSO modems, and even those use a serial port and AT commands for management. -- Matan. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: Almost all GPRS/UMTS/HSPA modems appear to the CPU as a serial device and need standard AT commands for connection management. Oh yeah -- I forgot about that. There's a way to use those modems with OS X that involve some configuration of PPP. Is that the same way a connection is initiated under Linux? -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: Actually, it's a new MSFT technology called DirectConnect (or DirectAccess or something like that) that is basically a multi-path IPv6 IPSEC tunnel. I guess they can say no VPN needed because it only goes to the corp network when it needs to, but this seems to be really splitting hairs and I think of it as a VPN. There are some cases where DirectAccess could be advantageous since it will work behind any firewall (falls back to port 443 for outbound connections). The main drawbacks are that it will only work for people using Windows 7 clients and have an end point service running on a Win2008r2 server. Plus, it connects automatically (not user initiated like VPN). It's disingenuous of Nokia to suggest that this feature distinguishes the the Booklet 3G from other netbooks since it will be available on any portable device running Win7. Also, it may be trivial to use from the end user's perspective but only after a sysadmin or two has enabled and tested the service on the company's network. q.v. this white paper comparing/contrasting DirectAccess and VPN: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=147083 It supports multi-factor authentication (of course, this will kill the seamless nature) so I would bet this will replace the MS PPTP solution. IPsec is already a viable alternative to PPTP. Even so, PPTP is secure if deployed properly. The main advantage of PPTP is that Windows and OS X include easy to configure clients. On the other hand, the open source VPNC IPsec client for Linux (and even Windows) is easy to use once configured properly. But these aren't really Nokia or maemo topics per se... -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM, lakestevensdentallakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Mark wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM, lakestevensdentallakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. FYI, I've been there done that with an eeeUbuntu netbook. I installed Ubuntu over Xandros. Then I installed nlited XP SP3 so my daughter could use it at college (which requires a Windows or Mac OS to work with the college's net security). Of the three OSs I installed, XP appears to run the best, it even boots in less than 20 seconds. I guess this is another way of saying that if one trims all of the crap off of Windows XP, it actually runs pretty nice, without the occasional Ubuntu hassle of not being able to install some non-existant Ubuntu flash to get web video to work properly. Which isn't to say the XP that comes with netbooks is nLited... Always, Fred C ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On 08/26/2009 04:37 PM, lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM, lakestevensdentallakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. FYI, I've been there done that with an eeeUbuntu netbook. I installed Ubuntu over Xandros. Then I installed nlited XP SP3 so my daughter could use it at college (which requires a Windows or Mac OS to work with the college's net security). Of the three OSs I installed, XP appears to run the best, it even boots in less than 20 seconds. I guess this is another way of saying that if one trims all of the crap off of Windows XP, it actually runs pretty nice, without the occasional Ubuntu hassle of not being able to install some non-existant Ubuntu flash to get web video to work properly. Which isn't to say the XP that comes with netbooks is nLited... I have a Lenovo S10 netbook dual booting Windows XP and Fedora Core 11 (with rpmfusion software repository enabled for non-free stuff). I much prefer Fedora over XP. Fedora works well: wireless, suspend, hibernate, flash videos, videos (via VLC) all work great. I use Sunbird calendar, and Thunderbird for email. And I get my Unix development tools that I am used to (emacs, gcc, etc..) without hassle. And when I need to run the occasional Windows app I have XP --shiv-- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental wrote: You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. The hassle you speak of comes from dealing with an 800 pound gorilla that has historically only been reigned in by the Commission of the European Communities. The US Dept of Justice lawsuit only taught Microsoft to continue to buy whatever mind share they want so long as they don't get caught doing it. It ultimately comes down to end users having a productive dialogue with their vendors. DELL has a website (ideastorm.com) for just such a thing. Also, there are plenty of resources out there for promoting Linux and open source software in general. In summary, the most successful tactics I've used and heard about over the years are quite simple; don't be a jerk. DELL welcomes customer feedback about their experimentation with Linux devices. Some of it's distilled in the quotes below but there is plenty more information in the source article and elsewhere. -Gary Speaking at OpenSource World, ... Todd Finch, Dell senior product marketing manager, said the number of Linux returns are approximately the same as those for Windows netbooks. ... Dell sells three machines running the Ubuntu Linux distro: the Atom-based Mini 10v, which can be classed as a netbook, plus the Inspiron 15n and XPS M1330n that run Core 2 Duo chips. ... Where consumers have returned machines, Finch said, it wasn't because of technical problems but because they'd bought a low-priced machine expecting Windows and opened it to find a different interface. Consumers had responded to the low price, he said - the Mini 10v retails for $299 online. 'Now we are trying to be a little more explicit in our advertising,' Finch said. 'We are not seeing any technical reasons for why they are returning Linux machines so...we don't see a significant difference between the return rate for Windows versus the rate for Linux. We've been quite pleased with the stability and technical soundness of the Linux machines.' ... Microsoft is famous for having locked down the retail channel by providing retailers with cash and marketing resources to enable everything from endorsements of Windows on PCs to stocking and positioning of product in the stores and on shelves. http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/dell_reality_linux_windows_netbooks ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
s...@ece.ucsb.edu wrote ---I have a Lenovo S10 netbook dual booting Windows XP and Fedora Core 11 (with rpmfusion software repository enabled for non-free stuff). I much prefer Fedora over XP. Fedora works well: wireless, suspend, hibernate, flash videos, videos (via VLC) all work great. I use Sunbird calendar, and Thunderbird for email. And I get my Unix development tools that I am used to (emacs, gcc, etc..) without hassle. And when I need to run the occasional Windows app I have XP A dual boot is a good way to go. There are a number of good Linux distros... I'm a tennis buff and with Windows, I can watch a variety of live matches on ESPN.com because I use one of ESPN's broadband affiliates (Verizon). This requires a special flash/activeX that, last I checked, wasn't available on Ubuntu. If I had an Ubuntu only netbook, I'd be out of luck at least until the plugin comes available.. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if someday soon MS starts messing with not providing its XP world with support to maintain Vista capable plugins and flashes -- hopefully Ubuntu (or some other distro) will have caught up by then... I sort of given up hope that Maemo will every catch up with new flashes for the n810 world, but one never knows. As a aside, I'm a UCSB grad -- molecular bio. UCSB is the best University experience available -- hard to beat being surrounded by beach on two sides. Study hard, party harder... :) Always, Fred C ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. You're not making any sense whatsoever. It doesn't cost anything for them to maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines - all they have to do is skip a few steps in manufacturing - and the number of Windows machines they sell just makes it that much easier for them to give a discount for OS-less machines. After all, you don't actually think they're making Windows available at cost, do you? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Nokia netbook
I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
I think there are two factors: 1) People will find more comfortable with a known interface. 2) Commercial agreements. I'd like to have the choice among Windows or Linux. Some vendors will let you choose your OS. Some won't. On 25/08/2009 16:15, Gary wrote: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On 25/08/2009 16:47, Kenneth Loafman wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Garyg...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? Getting a refund for unused OEM Windows license is almost a mirage. ...Ken ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Kenneth Loafmankenn...@loafman.com wrote: that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken It's the IBM OS/2 story all over again a company that doesn't have faith in its own OS is a company doomed to FAIL in the software space. In the case of IBM, you had a division (IBM Software) with an excellent piece of software (32-bit OS/2 2.x - Warp 3.x-4.x) and the rest of the company in bed with Microsoft (specially the IBM PC Co. and Lotus in charge of fake war hero Jeff Papows). So the first battle IBM software had to do was convincing the rest of the company on the virtues of its software. In the case of Nokia, you have a good OS (Maemo) that could run across the whole range of the firms' devices, yet the top managers and the rest of the company are not sold on the virtues of having its own OS, much less on the faith in open source software. Do you see Microsoft isntalling a non-Microsoft OS on its systems? NO. Do you see Apple vouching the ease of use virtues of Windwows Vista or Seven? NO. Yet, we do see the likes of Palm shipping Windows Mobile devices and Nokia shipping a Windows based Netbook. That speaks volumes about the fath of Nokia on its own OS's merits Market share my *ss. If it was for market share alone Apple would be selling Windows systems... and Sun Microsystems would be promoting Windows Server instead of OpenSolaris... FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
I strongly believe Maemo will be a direct competitor to Google Chrome OS WHEN it'll be ready for a netbook form factor device. They had (for whatever reason [may be test the market?]) to release a netbook, but neither Symbian nor Maemo were ready for it. So why wonder? Maemo will be an OS that can run from a phone up to a netbook. But will. Aniello 2009/8/25 William Maddler n...@maddler.net: On 25/08/2009 16:47, Kenneth Loafman wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Garyg...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? Getting a refund for unused OEM Windows license is almost a mirage. ...Ken ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- -- anidel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, 2009-08-25 at 17:04 +0200, William Maddler wrote: On 25/08/2009 16:47, Kenneth Loafman wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Garyg...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? Getting a refund for unused OEM Windows license is almost a mirage. Really, this makes no sense. Why not wait until Linux is available and in the mean time write Nokia and tell them why you aren't going to buy their product until such time. Probably more effective. Basically, don't reward them by buying their product first. Cheers ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Kenneth Loafmankenn...@loafman.com wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken On a netbook you would be better off skipping both Windows and Maemo and going straight to Ubuntu (or kubuntu as I have). You get the full range of ubuntu apps with no interface issues and can set up the GUI any way you want: Gnome, KDE, Netbook Remix, and all the customizeability you could want. You also would have zero issues with development environment, etc. For me, the WiFi, bluetooth, webcam etc. all worked out of the box, as do the most important function keys. Don't bother with the special netbook kernel, it causes a lot more problems than it solves. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Hi, in the spot video booklet 3g the new netbook nokia is presented with windows. But I personally prefer the combination of opensource software Ubuntu + Maemo. For italian maemo/nokia user I post on my blog the news ad the specifications of new booklet3G : http://rafanto.net/booklet-3g-ecco-il-netbook-nokia/ bye Rafanto - Antonio Di Cello On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Kenneth Loafmankenn...@loafman.com wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken On a netbook you would be better off skipping both Windows and Maemo and going straight to Ubuntu (or kubuntu as I have). You get the full range of ubuntu apps with no interface issues and can set up the GUI any way you want: Gnome, KDE, Netbook Remix, and all the customizeability you could want. You also would have zero issues with development environment, etc. For me, the WiFi, bluetooth, webcam etc. all worked out of the box, as do the most important function keys. Don't bother with the special netbook kernel, it causes a lot more problems than it solves. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Antonio Di Cello wrote: For italian maemo/nokia user I post on my blog the news ad the specifications of new booklet3G The Guardian has more speculation on the hardware specs. http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/sXsDARYcytKh_ev4Q2pP53Q/view.m?id=158147tid=120787 My guess is that they're trying to get some attention before Apple releases their touch screen tablet. I have used WIndows 7 extensively on a seven year old notebook which is about on par with most current net books (aside from the larger screen). It is much more usable than Vista was on the same system but I still prefer to boot in to U-lite -- a custom Ubuntu distribution that runs better on less powerful hardware than any of the official Ubuntu spin-offs. Aside from that, there are plenty of other distributions that Nokia could have chosen as there have been several window manager and desktop projects over the years that sufficiently emulate the Windows look and feel to ease users in to the UI. The OS/2 vs Windows comparison is an interesting one. Maybe Nokia will hire David Cutler to help finish freemantle. ;) -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
There's a lot of talk that Nokia should release a Maemo netbook. Is there a working port of Maemo to Intel-based chips? I only know of the ARM version for the tablets. This was partially mentioned above, but I don't think enough weight has been given to the fact that Nokia has just within the past three months announced major partnerships with both Intel and Microsoft. I don't see it as surprising that a corporate-focused booklet would choose this platform. And remember, the N900 is coming out. The OS/2 comparison is interesting, and it may well be that Maemo stays firmly in the hobbyist arena. But i think we will see Maemo take a bigger role as the laptop and phone continue to merge into a new hybrid device (of which netbooks and internet tablets are early forays into this class of device. K On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Gary g...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Antonio Di Cello wrote: For italian maemo/nokia user I post on my blog the news ad the specifications of new booklet3G The Guardian has more speculation on the hardware specs. http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/sXsDARYcytKh_ev4Q2pP53Q/view.m?id=158147tid=120787 My guess is that they're trying to get some attention before Apple releases their touch screen tablet. I have used WIndows 7 extensively on a seven year old notebook which is about on par with most current net books (aside from the larger screen). It is much more usable than Vista was on the same system but I still prefer to boot in to U-lite -- a custom Ubuntu distribution that runs better on less powerful hardware than any of the official Ubuntu spin-offs. Aside from that, there are plenty of other distributions that Nokia could have chosen as there have been several window manager and desktop projects over the years that sufficiently emulate the Windows look and feel to ease users in to the UI. The OS/2 vs Windows comparison is an interesting one. Maybe Nokia will hire David Cutler to help finish freemantle. ;) -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Stephen Gadsbystephen.gad...@gmail.com wrote: Microsoft hires an advertising firm, surely. Showing they'll use an appropriate tool for a job and not kill themselves with NIH. My point in the end was that one of the several reasons of microsoft's market dominance is that WINDOWS is their internal software religion Everything they do is aimed at increasing Windows' market share. I wish other firms realized that and stopped giving Microsoft a hand by shipping Windows-based devices... FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: There's a lot of talk that Nokia should release a Maemo netbook. Is there a working port of Maemo to Intel-based chips? I only know of the ARM version for the tablets. This was partially mentioned above, but I don't think enough weight has been given to the fact that Nokia has just within the past three months announced major partnerships with both Intel and Microsoft. I don't see it as surprising that a corporate-focused booklet would choose this platform. And remember, the N900 is coming out. The OS/2 comparison is interesting, and it may well be that Maemo stays firmly in the hobbyist arena. But i think we will see Maemo take a bigger role as the laptop and phone continue to merge into a new hybrid device (of which netbooks and internet tablets are early forays into this class of device. K If they put Maemo on a netbook then there's really no excuse for not backporting Freemantle to the N8x0 series. At least with the tablets the interface doesn't have to be completely replaced, only a few hardware drivers. And no, what works on a 4 screen is NOT appropriate for a 7 or larger screen and vice-versa. Frankly, I don't like the direction that GUIs are taking in general. Everybody is hopping on the Apple bandwagon of having to scroll through miles or pages of random icons instead of much quicker and more functional nested lists. Style over substance... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: There's a lot of talk that Nokia should release a Maemo netbook. Is there a working port of Maemo to Intel-based chips? I only know of the ARM version for the tablets. Not that I'm aware of. This was partially mentioned above, but I don't think enough weight has been given to the fact that Nokia has just within the past three months announced major partnerships with both Intel and Microsoft. I don't see it as surprising that a corporate-focused booklet would choose this platform. I don't have any qualms with the Atom processor as an energy efficient device but I've never been fond of Intel's business practices (their dealings with the OLPC project are only one of many). Also, I don't really see that Nokia are marketing the Booklet 3G as a corporate platform. q.v. http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/mini-laptop and http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/08/24/nokia-booklet-3g-mini-laptop-unveiled And remember, the N900 is coming out. The OS/2 comparison is interesting, and it may well be that Maemo stays firmly in the hobbyist arena. But i think we will see Maemo take a bigger role as the laptop and phone continue to merge into a new hybrid device (of which netbooks and internet tablets are early forays into this class of device. And the N97 handset has already released based on Symbian OS 9.4 and Series 60 v5 UI running on the ARM 11 proc. I guess I don't see what they have to gain by moving in to the already overcrowded Wintel market. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely a écrit : There's a lot of talk that Nokia should release a Maemo netbook. Is there a working port of Maemo to Intel-based chips? I only know of the ARM version for the tablets. The Scratchbox tool used into Maemo already support x86 processors. And Linux certainly support most, if not all Intel, chipset used in netboot today. So Maemo in a Intel netbook will probably no be a nightmare to do. I think that a screen resolution other than the 800x480 (that exists since the N770) will be the biggest problem for most applications. Best Regards, Jean-Christian de Rivaz ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 09:55:38AM -0600, Mark wrote: On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Kenneth Loafmankenn...@loafman.com wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken On a netbook you would be better off skipping both Windows and Maemo and going straight to Ubuntu (or kubuntu as I have). You get the full range of ubuntu apps with no interface issues and can set up the GUI any way you want: Gnome, KDE, Netbook Remix, and all the customizeability you could want. You also would have zero issues with development environment, etc. For me, the WiFi, bluetooth, webcam etc. all worked out of the box, as do the most important function keys. Don't bother with the special netbook kernel, it causes a lot more problems than it solves. I installed Debian on my eeepc with a special kernel, as documented on Debians eeepc pages. Works like a charm. -- hendrik Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
I just recall a good bit of the video's focus was aimed at the corporate commuter types (so-called VPN-less connection to corporate email being first in my mind), so I thought that was a market segment they were going after. I suspect an Ubuntu or other Linux port to this booklet would not be too difficult and that we'll see one soon after launch. Maybe even from some Linux hobbyists from within Nokia in the same way Sony releases unsupported versions for the Playstation. That would satisfy me. K On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Gary g...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Kevin T. Neely wrote: I don't have any qualms with the Atom processor as an energy efficient device but I've never been fond of Intel's business practices (their dealings with the OLPC project are only one of many). Also, I don't really see that Nokia are marketing the Booklet 3G as a corporate platform. q.v. http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/mini-laptop and http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/08/24/nokia-booklet-3g-mini-laptop-unveiled And remember, the N900 is coming out. The OS/2 comparison is interesting, and it may well be that Maemo stays firmly in the hobbyist arena. But i think we will see Maemo take a bigger role as the laptop and phone continue to merge into a new hybrid device (of which netbooks and internet tablets are early forays into this class of device. And the N97 handset has already released based on Symbian OS 9.4 and Series 60 v5 UI running on the ARM 11 proc. I guess I don't see what they have to gain by moving in to the already overcrowded Wintel market. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
I wondering if the Nokia Netbook is a touch screen tablet? If not, is it really possible to run Maemo 5 on it? /ove 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
It's not touchscreen, but I believe Maemo can be controlled via mouse keyboard. K 2009/8/25 Ove Nordström ove.nordst...@gmail.com I wondering if the Nokia Netbook is a touch screen tablet? If not, is it really possible to run Maemo 5 on it? /ove 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I just recall a good bit of the video's focus was aimed at the corporate commuter types (so-called VPN-less connection to corporate email being first in my mind), so I thought that was a market segment they were going after. That's just Microsoft ActiveSync and it's no real feat if they're just using Microsoft clients. They may also be licensing ActiveSync for any Nokia developed apps but that's just guesswork on my part. I suspect an Ubuntu or other Linux port to this booklet would not be too difficult and that we'll see one soon after launch. Maybe even from some Linux hobbyists from within Nokia in the same way Sony releases unsupported versions for the Playstation. That would satisfy me. The catch will be whether they release drivers for the HSPA broadband chipset ... -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Gary g...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Kevin T. Neely wrote: I just recall a good bit of the video's focus was aimed at the corporate commuter types (so-called VPN-less connection to corporate email being first in my mind), so I thought that was a market segment they were going after. That's just Microsoft ActiveSync and it's no real feat if they're just using Microsoft clients. They may also be licensing ActiveSync for any Nokia developed apps but that's just guesswork on my part. Actually, it's a new MSFT technology called DirectConnect (or DirectAccess or something like that) that is basically a multi-path IPv6 IPSEC tunnel. I guess they can say no VPN needed because it only goes to the corp network when it needs to, but this seems to be really splitting hairs and I think of it as a VPN. It supports multi-factor authentication (of course, this will kill the seamless nature) so I would bet this will replace the MS PPTP solution. It requires MS Direct Connect server and something on the client end (just MS Windows, I think) for it to work. Though, if it is just IPSEC, I guess other clients could connect to it. PPTP needs to be replaced, so this looks nice. Seeing as my company has its own VPN solution, I doubt we will be deploying this. K -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely ktne...@astroturfgarden.com writes: I just recall a good bit of the video's focus was aimed at the corporate commuter types (so-called VPN-less connection to corporate email being first in my mind), so I thought that was a market segment they were going after. I suspect an Ubuntu or other Linux port to this booklet would not be too difficult and that we'll see one soon after launch. Maybe even from some Linux hobbyists from within Nokia in the same way Sony releases unsupported versions for the Playstation. That would satisfy me. But then, how is that netbook from Nokia going to be different from netbooks from other manufacturers? -- Great things can be reduced to small things, and small things can be reduced to nothing. - Chinese Proverb ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
But then, how is that netbook from Nokia going to be different from netbooks from other manufacturers? This will be very interesting to see next week!! /ove 2009/8/26 Alexandru Cardaniuc cardan...@gmail.com: Kevin T. Neely ktne...@astroturfgarden.com writes: I just recall a good bit of the video's focus was aimed at the corporate commuter types (so-called VPN-less connection to corporate email being first in my mind), so I thought that was a market segment they were going after. I suspect an Ubuntu or other Linux port to this booklet would not be too difficult and that we'll see one soon after launch. Maybe even from some Linux hobbyists from within Nokia in the same way Sony releases unsupported versions for the Playstation. That would satisfy me. But then, how is that netbook from Nokia going to be different from netbooks from other manufacturers? -- Great things can be reduced to small things, and small things can be reduced to nothing. - Chinese Proverb ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Nokia netbook
I wasn't even suggesting Nokia offer Linux as a purchase option, just as an after-purchase option for someone that wants it. It would be different in the same ways the Win7 booklet is different from other windows netbooks, basically styling and the GSM SIM card slot. not that that is unique, but it is distinguishable from most. K Sent from my N97 read about it at http://rubbernecking.info -Original Message- From: Alexandru Cardaniuc Sent: 08/25/2009 3:47:24 PM Subject: Re: Nokia netbook Kevin T. Neely ktne...@astroturfgarden.com writes: I just recall a good bit of the video's focus was aimed at the corporate commuter types (so-called VPN-less connection to corporate email being first in my mind), so I thought that was a market segment they were going after. I suspect an Ubuntu or other Linux port to this booklet would not be too difficult and that we'll see one soon after launch. Maybe even from some Linux hobbyists from within Nokia in the same way Sony releases unsupported versions for the Playstation. That would satisfy me. But then, how is that netbook from Nokia going to be different from netbooks from other manufacturers? -- Great things can be reduced to small things, and small things can be reduced to nothing. - Chinese Proverb ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Wednesday 26 August 2009 00:37:18 Alexandru Cardaniuc wrote: Maemo's point is to be a substitute of a real distribution because of the hardware limitations like small screens and weak processing capabilities. You're talking just about the UI, Maemo is (headed to be) much more than just a finger friendly skin on a stripped down Debian. For example, the connection handling, location based services, integrated contact services, battery life considerations, syncing and the general on-the-move approach of 3G+ netbooks is much closer to where Maemo is headed than what you get with a desktop distro. Whether Nokia eventually wants to make that base also available with a netbook or mediapad oriented UI, just slap Moblin on it, or simply continue recommending Windows, is a different matter. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
booiiing booii...@gmail.com writes: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! ___ First of all, from my understanding the maemo UI is created for small devices with small screens. Also, 10 inch netbook is a real computer. Why would I use maemo on it if I can use a normal linux distribution on it like Debian?! Maemo's point is to be a substitute of a real distribution because of the hardware limitations like small screens and weak processing capabilities. -- I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Mark wolfm...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Kenneth Loafmankenn...@loafman.com wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken On a netbook you would be better off skipping both Windows and Maemo and going straight to Ubuntu (or kubuntu as I have). You get the full range of ubuntu apps with no interface issues and can set up the GUI any way you want: Gnome, KDE, Netbook Remix, and all the customizeability you could want. You also would have zero issues with development environment, etc. For me, the WiFi, bluetooth, webcam etc. all worked out of the box, as do the most important function keys. Don't bother with the special netbook kernel, it causes a lot more problems than it solves. Fully agree. I don't understand why would somebody use maemo when they could be using Ubuntu for instance. To make it clear a comparison: why use Windows Mobile on a netbook if you can run Windows XP ? -- If we really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem. - Krishnamurti ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
hend...@topoi.pooq.com writes: On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 09:55:38AM -0600, Mark wrote: On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Kenneth Loafmankenn...@loafman.com wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken On a netbook you would be better off skipping both Windows and Maemo and going straight to Ubuntu (or kubuntu as I have). You get the full range of ubuntu apps with no interface issues and can set up the GUI any way you want: Gnome, KDE, Netbook Remix, and all the customizeability you could want. You also would have zero issues with development environment, etc. For me, the WiFi, bluetooth, webcam etc. all worked out of the box, as do the most important function keys. Don't bother with the special netbook kernel, it causes a lot more problems than it solves. I installed Debian on my eeepc with a special kernel, as documented on Debians eeepc pages. Works like a charm. Although, it seems that Debian EEE pc project is over... -- I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I wasn't even suggesting Nokia offer Linux as a purchase option, just as an after-purchase option for someone that wants it. It would be different in the same ways the Win7 booklet is different from other windows netbooks, basically styling and the GSM SIM card slot. not that that is unique, but it is distinguishable from most. K But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I wasn't even suggesting Nokia offer Linux as a purchase option, just as an after-purchase option for someone that wants it. Actually, they don't even need to install an OS on it. Just give it to me with an empty HDD and a more attractive price and I'll run with it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
rumored Nokia netbook and touch screen tablet
There are interesting developments, indeed... One of the new models to be rolled out over the next 12 months has a 4.2-inch touchscreen and a 'hidden slide-out keyboard,' and is considered a mobile Internet device or tablet. The device is targeted for introduction in the fourth quarter before Christmas. The second device is called project Nautilus, and it apparently emphasizes a very slim touchscreen design. A sensor is used to extend or withdraw the keyboard into the phone. The keypad is said to be ultrathin, but when it slides out the Qwerty keys rise for easier typing. The first Nautilus phone isn't due for another year. http://www.thestreet.com/print/story/10484076.html Nokia, the No. 1 mobile phone maker, has sealed its plans to enter the netbook race, according to people familiar with the company. Some if not all of the production of the new mini-PCs will be handled by one of Nokia's original device manufacturing partners, Taiwan's Foxconn, these people say. http://www.thestreet.com/print/story/10482303.html ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
