Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 19:10 +0100, ext Neil MacLeod wrote: If Nokia Internet Tablet staff wish that the Maemo mailing lists are kept platform neutral I didn't mean to keep the list platform neutral. I meant to keep it on topic with the maemo platform: open source software for maemo + Nokia related software. Sure, Skype runs on top of the maemo platform and the hardware conditions the maemo feature set. These are reasons strong enough not to consider this subjects off-topic, and they are interesting. My point was that these topics don't belong really to the main purpose of this list and this is why we don't push them actively. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Quim Gil wrote: Now, a question and a long thought for the maemo lovers: What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? I guess until other non-Nokia Maemo-based devices exist (mid 2008?), Maemo == Nokia and vice versa. For the time being, the Maemo mailing lists are the only direct means of communication I/we have with Nokia personnel that are directly involved with software (and to a lesser extent, hardware) development. If Nokia Internet Tablet staff wish that the Maemo mailing lists are kept platform neutral perhaps it would be a good idea if they created their own mailing list where we could post questions, suggestions and direct feedback concerning the products they are responsible for. Mailing lists seem to provide a more intimate relationship between users/community and developers, far more so than submitting questions to a web site which may or may not receive a reply. Perhaps comp.handhelds.maemo.users.nokia to handle Nokia specific discussion? In the meantime Tableteer (Nokia official site for end users) has a feedback channel while http://www.womworld.com/nseries/category/n800/ (unofficial but sponsored by Nokia Nseries, I'm sure they read the comments) The only feedback related link I could find on that site (Contact Us) seems to be related to site content, rather than feedback about specific devices or other queries. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, I'd like to know what's happened to the Case... :) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Hanno, Neil, Randall co. Your comments are very interesting. I have already reported to the right people internally quoting some of your insightful thoughts and linking to this whole thread. I'm confident we will do better next time. Now, a question and a long thought for the maemo lovers: What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? In one hand we are trying to build a maemo community based on the open source software and development interests. We are putting a lot of effort creating a space with own identity and open source friendliness. Not pushing other topics, like Nokia devices or proprietary and commercial applications, is a decision made on purpose not to 'infoxicate' the main purpose of maemo: open source development for the Internet tablets. Now, because of this openness maemo is the easiest entry point for all sorts of feedback that, in fact, haven't got much to do with open source development or even usage. Like for example the Skype launch. In the meantime Tableteer (Nokia official site for end users) has a feedback channel while http://www.womworld.com/nseries/category/n800/ (unofficial but sponsored by Nokia Nseries, I'm sure they read the comments) is precisely about devices end user software hype and coolnessn no matter if it's open or closed as far as it's cool. And let's not forget the Nokia support channels, that (have no doubt) report to the management lines any relevant feedback and complaints. Does the maemo community have a clear answer to this question? In the meantime I hope the question itself helps the maemo community understanding why the maemo team is not hurrying to comment here a sneak preview of Skype. Almost the same applies to details of a next Internet Tablet OS release besides the platform and open source related components, that we are trying to address increasingly through http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html , http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/ , http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ and other stuff commented through the maemo-developers mailing list, our blogs aggregated in http://planet.maemo.org and public presentations like http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/369 or Ari Jaaksi's keynote in http://www.guadec.org/schedule/core (open source lovers and developers, stay tuned that day). The maemo team acknowledges and tries to improve on any issue you report about open source software development. But we really are not sure about how far are we supposed to go on topics like Skype, for the reasons mentioned above. PS: Don't believe rumors of mass holidays in Finland. Even if they were true they have nothing to do with our releases. Skype in the N800 was promised and very soon you will be able to see it in your own N800, together with some other cool stuff largely requested and discussed in this list, and present in the maemo roadmap. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Am Dienstag 03 Juli 2007 08:02 schrieb Quim Gil: What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? We shouldn't make this an either-or black-and-white question. In one hand we are trying to build a maemo community based on the open source software and development interests. We are putting a lot of effort creating a space with own identity and open source friendliness. Not pushing other topics, like Nokia devices or proprietary and commercial applications, is a decision made on purpose not to 'infoxicate' the main purpose of maemo: open source development for the Internet tablets. Now, because of this openness maemo is the easiest entry point for all sorts of feedback that, in fact, haven't got much to do with open source development or even usage. Like for example the Skype launch. An end user can't tell the difference between a maemo issue and a Nokia issue. He/she comes here because they found this list and like mailing lists better than forums. They ask their questions, and I'd really appreciate it if Nokia management people would read it, too (and answer from time to time). Allright, I see your problem. If you answer one question and don't answer an other one, there'll be shouts Ha! Shame on Nokia! They didn't answer my question! and that sort of stuff. But I think end users also have to learn the ways of open source development. They should know that nobody is obliged to answer their questions or to fix the bugs they report. In time, they will learn that even with these limitations, support here is much better than with proprietary software because here they can get into contact with really competent people instead of call center girlies. And for some questions, Nokia officials would be the most competent people to answer them. Do it! In the meantime Tableteer (Nokia official site for end users) has a feedback channel while http://www.womworld.com/nseries/category/n800/ (unofficial but sponsored by Nokia Nseries, I'm sure they read the comments) is precisely about devices end user software hype and coolnessn no matter if it's open or closed as far as it's cool. And let's not forget the Nokia support channels, that (have no doubt) report to the management lines any relevant feedback and complaints. Don't forget the other direction: How do users get feedback from Nokia? I consider this at least as important. If somebody sends feedback and gets no immediate response it is discouraging. Companies always like to collect feedback but are not willing to offer the same in the opposite direction. Does the maemo community have a clear answer to this question? I don't know :-) Personally, I prefer to have things in one place. I don't like searching the internet picking pieces of information from a dozen of websites, forums, and blogs. I'd very much like it if everything that's got something to do with technical aspects of the Nokia Internet tablets would be here on maemo-devel and maemo-users. Mailing lists are the very best way of giving feedback - in both directions. Thanks, Hans ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia Communication -- Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? Maemo should work to function and be perceived as an independent organization from Nokia. It should work toward an independent server infrastructure and a governance model that is not solely dependent on Nokia for support. That said, Nokia is the largest contributor to the platform and is doing the most with it, both in terms of open applications and closed applications. Announcing your projects and giving progress updates regarding them (as any other developer would) is important and will be valued by the community. People on the developers list may have more complex opinions about what should happen there, announcements of closed source software don't contribute much to the conversation about how one develops for the platform, but I think any news that relates to the use of the maemo platform is welcome on the Users list. Almost the same applies to details of a next Internet Tablet OS release besides the platform and open source related components, that we are trying to address increasingly through http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html , http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/ , http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ and other stuff commented through the maemo-developers mailing list, our blogs aggregated in http://planet.maemo.org and public presentations like http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/369 or Ari Jaaksi's keynote in http://www.guadec.org/schedule/core (open source lovers and developers, stay tuned that day). These are great resources, continue to communicate using whatever channels are most appropriate. But it is worth noting that the open source community is accustomed to mailing lists being the authoritative source for news. Whenever possible, it would be good to comment on the list when a piece of information becomes public, along the lines of: There's going to be a demo of the new OS release, including the Skype client, at the Digital Experience show in NYC, check it out if you're in the area. The details and release date still aren't public, but we're running more or less on schedule. See our January press release for the public 'schedule': http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1096860 Thanks, Mike Lococo ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Tue, 2007-03-07 at 17:37 -0400, Michael Wiktowy wrote: On 7/3/07, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example: Poor Skype just couldn't get their software ready, however, and I went with Gizmo. I likely would have anyway, as the open source model appeals to me and I see no real difference between the two, other than user base. The gizmo client works wonderfully well thus far, with only the answer bug on the free callin number. I bought a local number, and that works great, ringing my 770 and mobile phone simultaneously. I would just like to point out that while Gizmo follows open standards and inter-operates with open source SIP clients and I like Gizmo a lot, it is most certainly not open source. There is no *usable* open source SIP client for the 770/N800 ATM AFAIK. Except you can't pay the buggers. I've been trying to put $10.00 on my call out for a week now. It's very frustrating. They better pick up their customer service or phfft they'll be gone. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 05:37:01PM -0400, Michael Wiktowy wrote: On 7/3/07, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example: Poor Skype just couldn't get their software ready, however, and I went with Gizmo. I likely would have anyway, as the open source model appeals to me and I see no real difference between the two, other than user base. I would just like to point out that while Gizmo follows open standards and inter-operates with open source SIP clients and I like Gizmo a You are completely right, sorry about that. I wasn't thinking and meant open standards instead of source. I'm also pretty new to the SIP stuff, and sometimes think about Asterisk when I'm thinking about Gizmo. Mostly because I plan to do a asterisk implementation if I can find the time, and the Gizmo client will interface with that. thank you! Kevin -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
