Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
On 16 July 2011 02:57, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le vendredi 15 juillet 2011 à 11:10 +0300, Ahmad Samir a écrit : Hello. As you've seen the thread, posted by Charles A Edwards, there's a new version of flash which has native 64bit support, it's still in beta but seems to work well, some questions: - Any objections about offering it in mga1? Yes, I do. That's a beta, and stable is not a dumping ground for that. Right, let's do a head count: Mageia 64bit users who are using the 64bit Adobe Flash 11 Beta 1, please raise your hand (my hand is raised already, I've been using it for 2-3 days). The point, if there's no other easy way to watch flash for 64bit users without jumping through hoops (using nspluginwrapper, which is occasionally problematic, or using a 32bit browser on an x86_64 system, which entails installing some more 32bit libs), there's a good chance they'll use flash 11, alpha/beta/rc is still better than the hoops. Also we're talking about pushing it to backports, not updates. Anyway, since I am personally not affected by the whole issue, I am not pushing to submit to mga1, do a poll or whatever, when a consensus is reached we can act accordingly. -- Michael Scherer -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
16.07.2011 10:57, Ahmad Samir kirjutas: Right, let's do a head count: Mageia 64bit users who are using the 64bit Adobe Flash 11 Beta 1, please raise your hand (my hand is raised already, I've been using it for 2-3 days). +1 This beta works OK, a lot better than any other option on 64-bit systems. -- Sander
Re: [Mageia-dev] Where is the KDE WM ?
On 15 July 2011 23:20, Colin Guthrie mag...@colin.guthr.ie wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Balcaen John at 15/07/11 20:16 did gyre and gimble: On Friday 15 July 2011 15:06:11 Frank Griffin wrote: On 07/15/2011 02:28 PM, Frank Griffin wrote: Has anyone else noticed that as of updating yesterday or today, the windows in KDE have no titlebars, and cannot be moved or closed (except through the individual app) ? I used to see this occasionally under GNOME 2.32, but logging out/in again usually put it right. That doesn't work in the current KDE. All windows open in the top left of the screen with no enclosing frame, i.e. the MenuBar is the topmost thing you see. Turning Compiz off gets the titlebars back, but I've had Compiz on for a week or more without this problem. Googling shows that there is some conflict between Compiz and KDE, and other distro forums mentioned a compiz-kde package. Has something similar not been rebuilt for the new KDE ? I just finished to push compiz 0.8.8 (works is done by julien) everything is working here. How do you configure compiz ? Here it's simply working by selecting compiz as the default windows manager using systemsettings ( kcmshell4 componentchooser in konsole) Interesting, that method never really worked before (or at least I never tested it). It worked since mikala added http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/kdebase4-runtime/current/SOURCES/kdebase-runtime-4.6.0-fedora-support-for-compiz.patch, IIUC. Normally, you pick compiz via drak3d Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
2011/7/16 Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3...@gmail.com: On 16 July 2011 02:57, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le vendredi 15 juillet 2011 à 11:10 +0300, Ahmad Samir a écrit : Hello. As you've seen the thread, posted by Charles A Edwards, there's a new version of flash which has native 64bit support, it's still in beta but seems to work well, some questions: - Any objections about offering it in mga1? Yes, I do. That's a beta, and stable is not a dumping ground for that. Right, let's do a head count: Mageia 64bit users who are using the 64bit Adobe Flash 11 Beta 1, please raise your hand (my hand is raised already, I've been using it for 2-3 days). Same here. The point, if there's no other easy way to watch flash for 64bit users without jumping through hoops (using nspluginwrapper, which is occasionally problematic, or using a 32bit browser on an x86_64 system, which entails installing some more 32bit libs), there's a good chance they'll use flash 11, alpha/beta/rc is still better than the hoops. Also we're talking about pushing it to backports, not updates. Anyway, since I am personally not affected by the whole issue, I am not pushing to submit to mga1, do a poll or whatever, when a consensus is reached we can act accordingly. Yes, sure, no need to hurry. For those who do not know how to install it from the Adobe site somebody already posted a HowTo in the forum. So, a Mageia package will only be needed for those who can not read, all others will already have it installed by then. But what do I know about technical things -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] util-linux vs util-linux-ng
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net wrote: Hi, just wondering, is the switch from util-linux-ng 2.18 to util-linux 2.19+ planned? not yet because nobody proposed or had time, but if you want this is i think the perfect time
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
Le vendredi 15 juillet 2011 à 22:27 -0400, andre999 a écrit : Michael Scherer a écrit : Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 à 00:30 +0200, nicolas vigier a écrit : Hello. mgarepo version 1.9.11 adds maintdb command : It was not uploaded to the mirrors. ie, nothing on : http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr:/pub/linux/Mageia/software/mgarepo Strange ... it's in core/updates on my local mirror (in Canada). I've already updated. I speak of the tarball, not the package. I use it to create a fedora package for my laptop ( and I plan to submit it for inclusion later ). And the lack of tarball was one of the reason we identified for the lack of reuse of our tools. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le vendredi 15 juillet 2011 à 22:27 -0400, andre999 a écrit : Michael Scherer a écrit : Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 à 00:30 +0200, nicolas vigier a écrit : Hello. mgarepo version 1.9.11 adds maintdb command : It was not uploaded to the mirrors. ie, nothing on : http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr:/pub/linux/Mageia/software/mgarepo Strange ... it's in core/updates on my local mirror (in Canada). I've already updated. I speak of the tarball, not the package. I use it to create a fedora package for my laptop ( and I plan to submit it for inclusion later ). And the lack of tarball was one of the reason we identified for the lack of reuse of our tools. just wait the miror to be updated and you will find the tarball in http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr:/pub/linux/Mageia/software/mgarepo
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Mageia 2 specifications] Systemd or not systemd
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, D.Morgan wrote: On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Colin Guthrie mag...@colin.guthr.ie wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Colin Guthrie at 15/07/11 11:01 did gyre and gimble: Now that it's compiled, I need to test it :D Well it boots. And I have network connections! I have a problem where bluetoothd does not start but I'll solve that one at some point (it was a problem when I last used systemd too!) The various issues can now be solved as we go! Col Now that we have latest systemd rpm, is it OK to enable the systemd switches in the other rpms ? udev, ... OK? it is necessary: I had to fix dbus, consolekit, and accountsservice to get a working system. But mediatomb now starts serving files from nfs on boot, so the new systemd seems to be an improvement. Christiaan
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 03:02:21, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 à 12:11 +0200, nicolas vigier a écrit : On Wed, 13 Jul 2011, Samuel Verschelde wrote: Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 00:30:41, nicolas vigier a écrit : Hello. mgarepo version 1.9.11 adds maintdb command : $ mgarepo maintdb --help Usage: Take maintainership of one package : mgarepo maintdb set [package] [login] Remove yourself from maintainer of a package : mgarepo maintdb set [package] nobody See who is maintainer of a package : mgarepo maintdb get [package] See the list of all packages with their maintainer : mgarepo maintdb get I used in in Mageia 1 using the package in updates_testing and it works well. Ok, it's moved to updates now. Wasn't it against the policy ( ie, this is neither a bugfix, this is a version update, providing feature ) ? Strictly speaking, maybe, but the policy says Things are not set in stone, but we need a policy to move ahead with releasing updates for mga1, and we can refine the process as we find issues/shortcomings., and I think this is one of the cases where we can allow updates, to ease packager's work. We could add updates of mageia distribution building tools are allowed to ensure that packagers using stable releases have the same tools than those using cauldron What do you think ? Samuel
Re: [Mageia-dev] How to forbid submission of some tainted packages to core ?
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 02:45:04, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 01:17 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Some packages must be submitted only to tainted. Is there already a way to prevent a wrong submit to the core section, when a package builds without buildrequires in tainted ? If yes, what is the way, and if not, shouldn't we define a standard way to do that in the spec files ? We could add a requies to some dummy rpm that is present in tainted only. But I think this problem would not occurs often. If someone push it without saying where to go, it should go to the proper repository. And if someone push it to core, we should assume that he know what he does. There is no way to push by error to core, as you would need to add specific option ( iirc ). You mean that I can type mdvsys submit transcode and it will know that it must not go to core but to tainted ? Based on what information ? Samuel
Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 10:57 +0300, Ahmad Samir a écrit : On 16 July 2011 02:57, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le vendredi 15 juillet 2011 à 11:10 +0300, Ahmad Samir a écrit : Hello. As you've seen the thread, posted by Charles A Edwards, there's a new version of flash which has native 64bit support, it's still in beta but seems to work well, some questions: - Any objections about offering it in mga1? Yes, I do. That's a beta, and stable is not a dumping ground for that. Right, let's do a head count: Mageia 64bit users who are using the 64bit Adobe Flash 11 Beta 1, please raise your hand (my hand is raised already, I've been using it for 2-3 days). The point, if there's no other easy way to watch flash for 64bit users without jumping through hoops (using nspluginwrapper, which is occasionally problematic, or using a 32bit browser on an x86_64 system, which entails installing some more 32bit libs), there's a good chance they'll use flash 11, alpha/beta/rc is still better than the hoops. Also we're talking about pushing it to backports, not updates. I think we were all agreeing to raise confidence in backports. I think we can also all agree that if Adobe say that's a beta version, they are likely more knowledgeable than us about this too. Is the plugin supported by adobe ? Being still beta, I would say it is not for now. Some of us may have forgot, but they did withdraw the 64 bits version plugin in the past with any communication, because it was insecure and unsupported, and already a beta version. We can also agree that taking the same policy regarding backporting than at Mandriva will just yield the same result, ie saying it is not supported, so use it at your own risk. And so, if we want to send the message backports are supported, we should just act accordingly, and not send unsupported softwares to it. The plugin may work fine now on the machine of everybody, it would still be unsupported by adobe. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] How to forbid submission of some tainted packages to core ?
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 11:42 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 02:45:04, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 01:17 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Some packages must be submitted only to tainted. Is there already a way to prevent a wrong submit to the core section, when a package builds without buildrequires in tainted ? If yes, what is the way, and if not, shouldn't we define a standard way to do that in the spec files ? We could add a requies to some dummy rpm that is present in tainted only. But I think this problem would not occurs often. If someone push it without saying where to go, it should go to the proper repository. And if someone push it to core, we should assume that he know what he does. There is no way to push by error to core, as you would need to add specific option ( iirc ). You mean that I can type mdvsys submit transcode and it will know that it must not go to core but to tainted ? Based on what information ? Based on the fact the package is already in tainted, iirc. It was the case in mandriva for contribs/main, so it should still work. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [RPM] cauldron core/release unknown-horizons-2011-1.mga2
In data sabato 16 luglio 2011 03:30:20, Michael Scherer ha scritto: I think it wouldn't work for sub packages. And before enabling this, we need to have a way to keep rpmlint-mageia-policy in sync on valstar ( as the last time I restricted upload, people complained ). Could we have at least a rpmlint configuration that we can run as packagers? I mean not necessary on build system, some more warnings or errors could prevent wrong uploads, at least the ones tested by using rpmlint first... -- Angelo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 11:36 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 03:02:21, Michael Scherer a écrit : Wasn't it against the policy ( ie, this is neither a bugfix, this is a version update, providing feature ) ? Strictly speaking, maybe, but the policy says Things are not set in stone, but we need a policy to move ahead with releasing updates for mga1, and we can refine the process as we find issues/shortcomings., and I think this is one of the cases where we can allow updates, to ease packager's work. We could add updates of mageia distribution building tools are allowed to ensure that packagers using stable releases have the same tools than those using cauldron Personally, I would prefer that we first refine the policy and then act rather than the contrary :) And so, if we provides newer version of tools, what is wrong with using backports for that ? I am not keen on pushing our newer tool on update, since we plan to have our server using mageia, and so in the futur, if we push newer iurt, mgarepo, rpmlint, they may potentially disrupt build system. So by being clear and using backports, we would avoid such problem more easily. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] Ownership of /usr/share/man/XX, %find_lang --with-man
Le samedi 09 juillet 2011 à 14:46 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : I used the --with-man option of the %find_lang RPM macro, but noticed that it adds all /usr/share/man/XX and /usr/share/man/XX/manX directories to the package, which, it seems, is bad. Spturtle noticed that for example /usr/share/man/sr belongs to no other package and prefers that it belongs to too much packages than to no package at all. I looked at what fedora does, and it looks like they added all those translated manpages dirs to the filesystem package ( see http://sophie.zarb.org/explorer/usr/share/man/sr and select fedora ) It would solve the problem at hand and we could start cleaning wrong ownerships, such as those : http://sophie.zarb.org/explorer/usr/share/man/fr (select mageia) Filesystem sound the logical place to put everything. The real problem is to find the canonical list of supported languages. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
Quiet is good! I will say more quiet isn't bad... As long as all bugs and security issues are fixed, why make unnecessary noise? Funny bugzilla query: Status: NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED Version: 1 ... 354 bugs found. But i don't want to make noise :p -- Angelo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 12:20:22, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 11:36 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 03:02:21, Michael Scherer a écrit : Wasn't it against the policy ( ie, this is neither a bugfix, this is a version update, providing feature ) ? Strictly speaking, maybe, but the policy says Things are not set in stone, but we need a policy to move ahead with releasing updates for mga1, and we can refine the process as we find issues/shortcomings., and I think this is one of the cases where we can allow updates, to ease packager's work. We could add updates of mageia distribution building tools are allowed to ensure that packagers using stable releases have the same tools than those using cauldron Personally, I would prefer that we first refine the policy and then act rather than the contrary :) Indeed :) And so, if we provides newer version of tools, what is wrong with using backports for that ? I am not keen on pushing our newer tool on update, since we plan to have our server using mageia, and so in the futur, if we push newer iurt, mgarepo, rpmlint, they may potentially disrupt build system. So by being clear and using backports, we would avoid such problem more easily. Except if you plan to use those newer version on the build system, in which case sending to updates_testing to have them well tested then pushed to updates would avoid having to install backports on the BS ? Samuel
Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
I think your words are wise, and you're right since we want to enhance backports credibility. But i also think that we could give that package at least in backports/testing maybe with a -beta suffix to halp those of whom don't want to download flashplayer from adobe site directly and that maybe to send another message to mga1 users (expecially 64 bits arch ones), like we can't support that, but we don't forget about you :) -- Angelo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
tmb, I hate you. making kernel-desktop-latest to point to kernel-desktop-3.0.0-0.rc7.2.1.mga2 instead of kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.38.8-5.mga2 was a big mistake. there should have been something like kernel-desktop-latest3 for a while, to let people test that 3.0 thing (rc, right? I know this is cauldron, but I'd still prefer a kernel that works) while still having a 2.6 kernel. this 3.0 kernel is a piece of crap. my acer laptop behaves hectically (now I have a mouse, now it's frozen, now the system claims it will reboot, now I have to press the power button for 5 seconds to shutdown it), bcm4311 doesn't work even with the correct firmware in /lib/firmware/b43, a fully-fledged pita. reverting to 2.6.38.8-5 brought back the joy (and the wireless internet). but I suppose there won't be any update to the 2.6.38.8 kernel, right? even for an unstable thing like cauldron this is rather wrong, because 3.0.0 is not a released kernel as of yet. and a working kernel is a precondition to a working distro. forcing an rc-something as the current kernel is... unbenevolent dictatorship. yeah, I know, fedora rawhide and kubuntu 11.10 also have this 3.0.0-rc7-crap sort of thing. so you can't have the latest packages (including the latest kde) w/o having a broken kernel. sigh. but my message stands. tmb, I hate you for pushing this kernel as a forced update via kernel-desktop-latest. r-c aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 07:47, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.cawrote: this 3.0 kernel is a piece of crap. my acer laptop behaves hectically (now I have a mouse, now it's frozen, now the system claims it will reboot, now I have to press the power button for 5 seconds to shutdown it), bcm4311 doesn't work even with the correct firmware in /lib/firmware/b43, a fully-fledged pita. My acer laptops are having a completely different experience with it, they just work (acer timelinex 4820, acer aspire one d450, acer travelmate T4100 and acer travelmate C312XMi - yes, I have a nice acer collection with me :)). So at least for me, kernel 3.0 is a huge win! -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] [RPM] cauldron core/release unknown-horizons-2011-1.mga2
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 12:17 +0200, Angelo Naselli a écrit : In data sabato 16 luglio 2011 03:30:20, Michael Scherer ha scritto: I think it wouldn't work for sub packages. And before enabling this, we need to have a way to keep rpmlint-mageia-policy in sync on valstar ( as the last time I restricted upload, people complained ). Could we have at least a rpmlint configuration that we can run as packagers? I mean not necessary on build system, some more warnings or errors could prevent wrong uploads, at least the ones tested by using rpmlint first... See : https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20110304/003013.html So urpmi rpmlint-mageia-policy should do the trick. The configuration deployed on the bs for now is the regular one of Mandriva, no specific stuff yet. I plan to fix that however, likely a youri plugin to deploy on upload. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
My acer laptops are having a completely different experience with it, they just work (acer timelinex 4820, acer aspire one d450, acer travelmate T4100 and acer travelmate C312XMi - yes, I have a nice acer collection with me :)). So at least for me, kernel 3.0 is a huge win! Eugeni, you must be lucky. At least, you don't have a bcm4311, I suppose. You know, Ubuntu is has provided the hybrid Broadcom-STA for ages. (Pardus 2011.1 also has bcm4311 working out-of-the-box.) Mageia just doesn't. R-C aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca wrote: tmb, I hate you. really clever and polite ... making kernel-desktop-latest to point to kernel-desktop-3.0.0-0.rc7.2.1.mga2 instead of kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.38.8-5.mga2 was a big mistake. your call, should have been i think would have been better there should have been something like kernel-desktop-latest3 for a while, to let people test that 3.0 thing (rc, right? I know this is cauldron, but I'd still prefer a kernel that works) while still having a 2.6 kernel. you still can use the kernel 2.6 which is installed on your machine, installing a newer kernel doesn't uninstall the previous one. this 3.0 kernel is a piece of crap. my acer laptop behaves hectically (now I have a mouse, now it's frozen, now the system claims it will reboot, now I have to press the power button for 5 seconds to shutdown it), bcm4311 doesn't work even with the correct firmware in /lib/firmware/b43, a fully-fledged pita. reverting to 2.6.38.8-5 brought back the joy (and the wireless internet). but I suppose there won't be any update to the 2.6.38.8 kernel, right? even for an unstable thing like cauldron this is rather wrong, because 3.0.0 is not a released kernel as of yet. and a working kernel is a precondition to a working distro. forcing an rc-something as the current kernel is... unbenevolent dictatorship. your message is not that democratic too yeah, I know, fedora rawhide and kubuntu 11.10 also have this 3.0.0-rc7-crap sort of thing. so you can't have the latest packages (including the latest kde) w/o having a broken kernel. sigh. but my message stands. tmb, I hate you for pushing this kernel as a forced update via kernel-desktop-latest. for my part i still love tmb a lot for his awesome work
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
In data sabato 16 luglio 2011 03:27:18, Michael Scherer ha scritto: The goal of novice is not to add lots of packages to become packagers, but to demonstrate enough knowledge while maintaining them. So I would rather have a system that discourage adding lots of rpms. Ie, if there is a incentive to focus on existing rpms, I think we should use it. Good point. But often who want to become a packager, does it to have at least his preferred ones on the system. That's good if he become a maintainer, because he uses them and at least we could hope they won't be broken. So why should avoid them to import new packages? I agree though to start working on bug reports and fixing existing ones, but that is ok now because there are no real maintainers, so we could work on that and this, but after - bug reports would then be assigned to the mentor instead of the novice, which would perhaps give a bit more work towards mentor to notify his novice about it. If the novice disappear, then someone should take care of the packages, and it should be the mentor. This way, they will not accept random rpms thinking this is not my duty to take care. How can we prevent that? even after the novice becomes official packager that could happen -- Angelo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: making kernel-desktop-latest to point to kernel-desktop-3.0.0-0.rc7.2.1.mga2 instead of kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.38.8-5.mga2 was a big mistake. there should have been something like kernel-desktop-latest3 for a while, to let people test that 3.0 thing (rc, right? I know this is cauldron, but I'd still prefer a kernel that works) while still having a 2.6 kernel. Please understand linux 3.0 is just a different name for 2.6.40, there's nothing special about it. So a kernel-desktop-latest3 doesn't make any sense. Christiaan
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
I still love and congrats tmb too, for his hardwork! Sandro Cazzaniga -Original Message- From: D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com Sender: mageia-dev-boun...@mageia.org Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:07:26 To: Mageia development mailing-listmageia-dev@mageia.org Reply-To: Mageia development mailing-list mageia-dev@mageia.org Subject: Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca wrote: tmb, I hate you. really clever and polite ... making kernel-desktop-latest to point to kernel-desktop-3.0.0-0.rc7.2.1.mga2 instead of kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.38.8-5.mga2 was a big mistake. your call, should have been i think would have been better there should have been something like kernel-desktop-latest3 for a while, to let people test that 3.0 thing (rc, right? I know this is cauldron, but I'd still prefer a kernel that works) while still having a 2.6 kernel. you still can use the kernel 2.6 which is installed on your machine, installing a newer kernel doesn't uninstall the previous one. this 3.0 kernel is a piece of crap. my acer laptop behaves hectically (now I have a mouse, now it's frozen, now the system claims it will reboot, now I have to press the power button for 5 seconds to shutdown it), bcm4311 doesn't work even with the correct firmware in /lib/firmware/b43, a fully-fledged pita. reverting to 2.6.38.8-5 brought back the joy (and the wireless internet). but I suppose there won't be any update to the 2.6.38.8 kernel, right? even for an unstable thing like cauldron this is rather wrong, because 3.0.0 is not a released kernel as of yet. and a working kernel is a precondition to a working distro. forcing an rc-something as the current kernel is... unbenevolent dictatorship. your message is not that democratic too yeah, I know, fedora rawhide and kubuntu 11.10 also have this 3.0.0-rc7-crap sort of thing. so you can't have the latest packages (including the latest kde) w/o having a broken kernel. sigh. but my message stands. tmb, I hate you for pushing this kernel as a forced update via kernel-desktop-latest. for my part i still love tmb a lot for his awesome work
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 12:34 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 12:20:22, Michael Scherer a écrit : I am not keen on pushing our newer tool on update, since we plan to have our server using mageia, and so in the futur, if we push newer iurt, mgarepo, rpmlint, they may potentially disrupt build system. So by being clear and using backports, we would avoid such problem more easily. Except if you plan to use those newer version on the build system, in which case sending to updates_testing to have them well tested then pushed to updates would avoid having to install backports on the BS ? We already have backports on the BS, and we will likely not be able to avoid it. For example, transifex, while not being part of the BS per se, is backported from cooker/cauldron. And it is planned to upgrade it to next stable release, as asked by i18n team. There is no way that a new tx would be pushed as update, that's too disruptive. Moreover, I do not exclude the case that someone would deploy the same build system as us ( let's say a company that provides custom version of Mageia, a university that deploy custom build of software, whatever ), and would prefer to not follow our upgrade path. So I think the build system stuff should not have a exception for updates. Now, the problem arise also because mgarepo is used on both client side, and server side. On client side, it could likely fall as needed to follow API changes, at least for this version ( like would tx-client, or wesnoth ), even if the problem is also the lack of web interface ( as this would avoid requiring a new command line client ). But on server side, the update reason doesn't apply. So having a separate binary ( and/or tarball, while on it ) for the server part, and make sure this one do not change much would be cleaner, IMHO. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
16.07.2011 14:07, D.Morgan kirjutas: for my part i still love tmb a lot for his awesome work +1 R-C, please behave.. this is cauldron, it breaks stuff and we almost want it (at least sometimes :)). If you don't like the way it is, please don't use it! -- Sander
Re: [Mageia-dev] How to forbid submission of some tainted packages to core ?
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 13:03:43, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 12:16 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 12:12:15, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 11:42 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 02:45:04, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 01:17 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : You mean that I can type mdvsys submit transcode and it will know that it must not go to core but to tainted ? Based on what information ? Based on the fact the package is already in tainted, iirc. It was the case in mandriva for contribs/main, so it should still work. Can I test ? And if the package lands into core, are you ready to delete it ? :) Yep. The package went to tainted :) Samuel
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
2011/7/16 Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca this 3.0 kernel is a piece of crap. my acer laptop behaves hectically (now I have a mouse, now it's frozen, now the system claims it will reboot, now I have to press the power button for 5 seconds to shutdown it), bcm4311 doesn't work even with the correct firmware in /lib/firmware/b43, a fully-fledged pita. Where are the detailed error messages? Everything else doesn't help. Your posting is something for sysout class = Z Magnus
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca wrote: tmb, I hate you. making kernel-desktop-latest to point to kernel-desktop-3.0.0-0.rc7.2.1.mga2 instead of kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.38.8-5.mga2 was a big mistake. there should have been something like kernel-desktop-latest3 for a while, to let people test that 3.0 thing (rc, right? I know this is cauldron, but I'd still prefer a kernel that works) while still having a 2.6 kernel. For your information the final kernel 3.0 is planned in some days so we have nearly the final one
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
you still can use the kernel 2.6 which is installed on your machine, installing a newer kernel doesn't uninstall the previous one. yes, I can, but only because I've edited menu.lst _manually_. the new kernel added 2 grub entries, at the end, both pointing to the 3.0.0 kernel. and the default one (first one) also booted the 3.0.0 kernel. forcing an rc-something as the current kernel is... unbenevolent dictatorship. your message is not that democratic too it is. normally, when an update pushes a totally new kernel, it should make sure GRUB still has an entry with the previous kernel. no, not failsafe with the latest kernel, but just the previous working kernel. with either of Mageia 1 and Mageia Cauldron, I could _never_ get an updated kernel to _properly_ update GRUB's menu.list. I suppose it's rocket science. It's like GRUB was release yesterday and nobody knows how to deal with it. for my part i still love tmb a lot for his awesome work. for the past, yes. for pushing 3.0.0 as a forced update to 2.6.38... this is just a bad decision! you all squeak and tweak over pushing or not pushing Adobe Flash 11 Beta1 x86_64 into Cauldron, because it's beta. heck, it's just a bloody plugin! but when comes to such a crucial thing as the kernel... forcing rc7over a working kernel is always good, because it's signed by Linus, and because tmb has pushed the mga patches. well, I beg to strongly disagree. r-c aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
Please understand linux 3.0 is just a different name for 2.6.40, there's nothing special about it. So a kernel-desktop-latest3 doesn't make any sense. ok, then how about kernel-desktop-latest-unstable kernel-desktop-latest-rc kernel-desktop-latest-beta ? because it's not a properly tested kernel. and it's not 2.6.40 yet, it's a prerelease. r-c aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
在 Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:29:27 +0800, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca寫道: you still can use the kernel 2.6 which is installed on your machine, installing a newer kernel doesn't uninstall the previous one. yes, I can, but only because I've edited menu.lst _manually_. the new kernel added 2 grub entries, at the end, both pointing to the 3.0.0 kernel. and the default one (first one) also booted the 3.0.0 kernel. In drakboot, you can setup the default pointing to 2.6.38 kernel... for my part i still love tmb a lot for his awesome work. for the past, yes. for pushing 3.0.0 as a forced update to 2.6.38... this is just a bad decision! you all squeak and tweak over pushing or not pushing Adobe Flash 11 Beta1 x86_64 into Cauldron, because it's beta. heck, it's just a bloody plugin! but when comes to such a crucial thing as the kernel... forcing rc7over a working kernel is always good, because it's signed by Linus, and because tmb has pushed the mga patches. well, I beg to strongly disagree. A big difference is that kernel needs more test, but flash plugin can still use 32-bits to work. It's in cauldron so we can do more test and maybe report to upstream/make our own changes. You can't stop at 2.6.38 for long, the development of kernel would continue, and more testing would do good to us and other user in other distro.
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
2011/7/16 Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca yes, I can, but only because I've edited menu.lst _manually_. the new kernel added 2 grub entries, at the end, both pointing to the 3.0.0 kernel. and the default one (first one) also booted the 3.0.0 kernel. On my machine there isnt't this problem. The last entry in the menu.lst points to 2.6.38.8-desktop-4 all automatically, without editing. so grub works normally. magnus
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 04:29 -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU a écrit : you all squeak and tweak over pushing or not pushing Adobe Flash 11 Beta1 x86_64 into Cauldron, because it's beta. heck, it's just a bloody plugin! The mail is about pushing flash to stable, not cauldron. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 04:31 -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU a écrit : Please understand linux 3.0 is just a different name for 2.6.40, there's nothing special about it. So a kernel-desktop-latest3 doesn't make any sense. ok, then how about kernel-desktop-latest-unstable kernel-desktop-latest-rc kernel-desktop-latest-beta ? because it's not a properly tested kernel. Yes, and we could even have a whole distribution dedicated to have packages to be tested. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 04:31 -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU a écrit : Please understand linux 3.0 is just a different name for 2.6.40, there's nothing special about it. So a kernel-desktop-latest3 doesn't make any sense. ok, then how about kernel-desktop-latest-unstable kernel-desktop-latest-rc kernel-desktop-latest-beta ? because it's not a properly tested kernel. Yes, and we could even have a whole distribution dedicated to have packages to be tested. and could we call it cauldron ? :)
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
16.07.2011 14:31, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU kirjutas: ok, then how about kernel-desktop-latest-unstable kernel-desktop-latest-rc kernel-desktop-latest-beta ? But why not kernel-desktop-latest-unstable-beta and kernel-desktop-latest-unstable-rc, etc.. as well? I think buildsystem would love it (one kernel submission would take a day) :) It's cauldron, face it deal with it! -- Sander
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On my machine there isnt't this problem. The last entry in the menu.lst points to 2.6.38.8-desktop-4 all automatically, without editing. so grub works normally. no, it does not. it never did. the testing scenarios have always been insufficient. I needed to add an entry to menu.lst to chain to a different menu.lst from another partition (this GRUB dual-boots Mageia Cauldron 32-bit with Windows XP, and the chained GRUB boots Mageia Cauldron 64-bit). Once you manually touch menu.lst, it's never going to be properly updated afterwards. such is life, I suppose -- buggy. r-c aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
2011/7/16 D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Yes, and we could even have a whole distribution dedicated to have packages to be tested. and could we call it cauldron ? :) That's a great idea! :D And by the way, this thread has one good point. I have one person less, I'm gonna listen to, because some things just disqualify people...
Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
On 16 July 2011 11:11, Anssi Hannula anssi.hann...@iki.fi wrote: On 15.07.2011 11:10, Ahmad Samir wrote: Hello. As you've seen the thread, posted by Charles A Edwards, there's a new version of flash which has native 64bit support, it's still in beta but seems to work well, some questions: - Any objections about offering it in mga1? on x86_64 only and keeping the 32bit stable one as is for now; not having to install nspluginwrapper or a 32bit browser on a 64bit system is an improvement, IMHO. - For Cauldron: o Do we ship the 11 beta1 for both arch? o Just x86_64 and keep the 32bit stable flash for now o Keep the 32bit stable and create another spec (Name: flash-player-pluing11) for 11 beta1? this way 32bit users will have a choice to install the version they want. WDYT? I'd provide it as 'flash-player-plugin11' or 'flash-player-plugin-beta' for both cauldron and mga1. I had started working on flash-player-plugin11 yesterday (based on the current spec and the old PLF flash-player10.2). -- Anssi Hannula -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
在 Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:55:11 +0800, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca寫道: On my machine there isnt't this problem. The last entry in the menu.lst points to 2.6.38.8-desktop-4 all automatically, without editing. so grub works normally. no, it does not. it never did. the testing scenarios have always been insufficient. I needed to add an entry to menu.lst to chain to a different menu.lst from another partition (this GRUB dual-boots Mageia Cauldron 32-bit with Windows XP, and the chained GRUB boots Mageia Cauldron 64-bit). Once you manually touch menu.lst, it's never going to be properly updated afterwards. such is life, I suppose -- buggy. If so, then please report it out and tell others what your menu.lst looks like...Keep complaining won't change the fact that it's buggy.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [RPM] cauldron core/release pymecavideo-5.4-1.mga2
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 13:18:14, Mageia Team a écrit : Name: pymecavideo Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 5.4 Vendor: Mageia.Org Release : 1.mga2Build Date: Sat Jul 16 13:17:25 2011 Install Date: (not installed) Build Host: jonund Group : Sciences/Physics Source RPM: (none) Size: 2850208 License: GPLv3 Signature : (none) Packager: Mageia Team http://www.mageia.org URL : http://outilsphysiques.tuxfamily.org/pmwiki.php/Oppl/Pymecavideo Summary : Pymecavideo permet de tracer les trajectoires d?crites par un ou plusieurs points d'un objet en utilisant une video Description : pymecavideo permet de tracer point par point la trajectoire de point ainsi que choisir un r?f?rentiel particulier pour ?tudier la trajectoire dans celui-ci. Les donn?es ainsi recueillies peuvent ?tre export?es dans un logiciel de traitement. ofaurax ofaurax 5.4-1.mga2: + Revision: 124735 - imported package pymecavideo Shouldn't the summary be in english ? Samuel
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
R-C, please behave.. this is cauldron, it breaks stuff and we almost want it (at least sometimes :)). If you don't like the way it is, please don't use it! Sander, As long as Linux distros are such idiotically designed that one can _not_ have the latest packages for the applications I need, and this also includes the latest KDE in a _stable_ distro (unless you're using something like some PPA in Ubuntu, or maybe you're luck enough to have backports in your preferred distro, or maybe you're using openSUSE and one of the gazillions extra repos has what you want), I _have_ to use cauldron/cooker/rawhide/unstable! This is not the place for a flamewar but, as I am using Linux since 1995, over all this time, this is one thing I keep saying: THE ONE AND ONLY THING properly designed in Windows is that you can use (almost) ANY version of ANY application w/o breaking the system and w/o upgrading the system! In all the Linux distros, once the official repos have upgraded an application, you're normally supposed to use it, because downgrading is: (1) difficult; (2) discouraged. Sticking to a _stable_ release of any Linux distro for its supported lifetime or until the next stable release is out means that, for most of the time. you'll be using OLDER versions of many applications -- whereas, should those applications be cross-platform (e.g. VLC, LibreOffice, Calibre, etc. etc.), any Windows user is able to use ANY desired version of these applications W/O BREAKING THE WHOLE SYSTEM! Not to mention that whoever still complains about the DLL Hell in Windows has probably never really used Linux enough. I can see (1) broken dependencies; (2) breakages; (3) packages that need to be rebuilt because some library has been upgraded and the API or the ABI has changed; (4) libraries that need to be upgraded because the stupid developer of some application (package) can't release any update w/o requiring the latest and greatest version of some lib; ...all these, not in cauldron/cooker/rawhide/unstable, but even in stable distros too! Because, postulate 2, whereas different versions of system DLLs can coexist in a given Windows release, this is typically impossible in Linux, BY DESIGN (and this is not about GTK+1 coexisting with GTK+2, nor about KDE3 compatibility libs in KDE4, and also not about installing in /opt or other tricks). By design, Linux has inherited a lot of decisions made decades ago in Unix, decisions that are not appropriate for today's desktop users, but we have to live with that. To end this flamewar: when I decide to use a cauldron/cooker/rawhide/unstable system, I expect I will need to fix some breakages, but at least (1) let me have a proper choice of kernels in GRUB, including the previous one; (2) don't force UNRELEASED kernels on me! Breaking a package is one thing, breaking the kernel is a totally different one. Postulate #3: In Windows, adding support for some new hardware means you just have to bring a new driver. In Linux, it requires a new kernel -- which typically means breakages, regressions, the need to rebuild a lot, and so on. Most of you are very skilled Linux developers and packages, and some of you have also been Windows developers at some point. I'm puzzled that you're unable to see the flaws in Linux -- not that you would be able to do anything. As Linux is not a centralized project (except for Linus' dictatorship over the kernel), major redesign is impossible. But still, unstable is unstable, and pushing a kernel update like that... And no, I won't investigate anything, I'll not file any report on what it's not working with this kernel and my hardware. As a sign of protest over the way the kernel policies are with Cauldron, I'll use 2.6.38.8 for as long as it's possible, leaving to other guinea pigs the task to blame, complain, report, fix. Regressions in kernels are the thing I hate the most in this world. I've experienced kernel regressions in the past every 6 months with each and every Ubuntu release -- and those were kernels supposed to be tested well-enough. What I like in Linux is never the kernel. Never ever. It's monolithic, impossible to be properly tested, and managed by a stupid fat arrogant guy called Linus. The only kernels I loved were 1.2.13 and1.3.18. After that, the kernel was just a nuisance -- like the government, the taxes, the Microsoft tax, etc. R-C aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
In data sabato 16 luglio 2011 13:56:38, Oliver Burger ha scritto: 2011/7/16 D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Yes, and we could even have a whole distribution dedicated to have packages to be tested. and could we call it cauldron ? :) That's a great idea! :D I think I'm going to work on that, i like it :D -- Angelo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Adobe Flash player 11 Beta 1 in Cauldron
On 16 July 2011 14:02, Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 July 2011 11:11, Anssi Hannula anssi.hann...@iki.fi wrote: On 15.07.2011 11:10, Ahmad Samir wrote: Hello. As you've seen the thread, posted by Charles A Edwards, there's a new version of flash which has native 64bit support, it's still in beta but seems to work well, some questions: - Any objections about offering it in mga1? on x86_64 only and keeping the 32bit stable one as is for now; not having to install nspluginwrapper or a 32bit browser on a 64bit system is an improvement, IMHO. - For Cauldron: o Do we ship the 11 beta1 for both arch? o Just x86_64 and keep the 32bit stable flash for now o Keep the 32bit stable and create another spec (Name: flash-player-pluing11) for 11 beta1? this way 32bit users will have a choice to install the version they want. WDYT? I'd provide it as 'flash-player-plugin11' or 'flash-player-plugin-beta' for both cauldron and mga1. I had started working on flash-player-plugin11 yesterday (based on the current spec and the old PLF flash-player10.2). I've imported it in Cauldron. @Anssi (since you worked on the flash spec the most), please review, feel free to fix anything I missed. -- Anssi Hannula -- Ahmad Samir -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
16.07.2011 15:11, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU kirjutas: R-C, please behave.. this is cauldron, it breaks stuff and we almost want it (at least sometimes :)). If you don't like the way it is, please don't use it! Sander, [didn't read it all - don't have that much time] R-C aka beranger I have to say.. for the last 10+ years you have used OS that's not for you and that you don't understand. Sorry for you, maybe Mr. Jobs can help you out? (Sorry for feeding trolls, my last time ;)) -- Sander
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 05:11 -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU a écrit : R-C, please behave.. this is cauldron, it breaks stuff and we almost want it (at least sometimes :)). If you don't like the way it is, please don't use it! Sander, As long as Linux distros are such idiotically designed that one can _not_ have the latest packages for the applications I need, and this also includes the latest KDE in a _stable_ distro (unless you're using something like some PPA in Ubuntu, or maybe you're luck enough to have backports in your preferred distro, or maybe you're using openSUSE and one of the gazillions extra repos has what you want), I _have_ to use cauldron/cooker/rawhide/unstable! This is not the place for a flamewar but, as I am using Linux since 1995, over all this time, this is one thing I keep saying: As you say, this is not the place for flamewar or anything. if you continue to insult people ( fat stupid and idiotically, plus the repeated flaming on the list ), I will just have no choice but to request to block you. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
[didn't read it all - don't have that much time] that's very considerate. at least, you were able to write the above line. I have to say.. for the last 10+ years you have used OS that's not for you and that you don't understand. Sorry for you, maybe Mr. Jobs can help you out? I'd rather die than to pay a dime to Steve Jobs. I hate Apple more than I hate Microsoft. (Sorry for feeding trolls, my last time ;)) Last time indeed. BTW, Sander, using words such as trolls should be reserved to teenagers, not to serious people. When a Linux developer writes/speaks about trolling, he only looks like mentally immature and a fanboy. Serious people are not fanboys of anything. farewell, r-c aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
THE ONE AND ONLY THING properly designed in Windows is that you can use (almost) ANY version of ANY application w/o breaking the system and w/o upgrading the system! *Almost* as you said. Also windows changed and sometimes changes between a sp to another, sometimes (often) some applications just stop working. And yes you can take the old one. But it's not always easy. It depends on the good will of developers, not all the not open source projects leave old packages to download... And yes, you've probably been right, it's *very* *easy* to downgrade a W. service pack... In all the Linux distros, once the official repos have upgraded an application, you're normally supposed to use it, because downgrading is: (1) difficult; For those who do not want to learn yes. For those who are just users yes. The first kind cannot complain, the second one yes. But some distros add some package that allows to install new programs locally (one of those was called autopackage, now forked... i tested once, worked but *I* did not need such a feature). (2) discouraged. Why? locally you can always do what you want. I remember a friend that installed a RH, but after that he installed all the programs he needs by using configure make make install... it was not a red hat anymore but it started like it was. He had what he needed and worked how he liked to. Because, postulate 2, whereas different versions of system DLLs can coexist in a given Windows release, this is typically impossible in Linux, BY DESIGN (and this is not about GTK+1 coexisting with GTK+2, nor about KDE3 compatibility libs in KDE4, and also not about installing in /opt or other tricks). different dlls can lay on the system only if the are different. e.g name version etc, the same it's for .so files. So the problem is not on the system but on the developers, if they break abi and don't change the so version according and the packager does not see that, then yes they can't co-exists. Breaking a package is one thing, breaking the kernel is a totally different one. Why don't you ask that to those people that run to buy windows vista after an update of a famous anti-virus in XP, because they cannot use their system any more? -- Angelo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
I just updated my system and am now running kernel-3.0... Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely not. Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message. can anyone confirm? If yes, I'd post a bug report (against what?), Which outputs, information would be needed? Oliver
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
在 Sat, 16 Jul 2011 21:03:50 +0800, Oliver Burger oliver@googlemail.com寫道: I just updated my system and am now running kernel-3.0... Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely not. Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message. can anyone confirm? If yes, I'd post a bug report (against what?), Which outputs, information would be needed? Confirm for a long time...Even before kernel-3.0, my drakconnect is broken. https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2152 This is the bug report I opened. It seems something is wrong with ldetect...
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
In data sabato 16 luglio 2011 15:03:50, Oliver Burger ha scritto: I just updated my system and am now running kernel-3.0... Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely not. Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message. can anyone confirm? If yes, I'd post a bug report (against what?), Which outputs, information would be needed? Confirm that, after updating, my virtual box VM is affected. -- Angelo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 09:11, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.cawrote: To end this flamewar: when I decide to use a cauldron/cooker/rawhide/unstable system, I expect I will need to fix some breakages, but at least (1) let me have a proper choice of kernels in GRUB, including the previous one; (2) don't force UNRELEASED kernels on me! This thread was certainly amused and very fruitful for at least my fortunes file, but may I suggest you to start using some other distribution or operating system which better satisfies your needs, and leave us, poor mortals, with Mandriva/Mageia stable/cooker/cauldron gnu/linux solutions - which work the way we love? :) They are imperfect, they have unreleased versions all the time, they have breakages, upgrades, updates, flaws, problems, design issues, and so on - but this is fine for us! Breaking a package is one thing, breaking the kernel is a totally different one. And breaking a window is totally different as well, I agree :(. As well as breaking a leg for example, and breaking habits. And let us not forget that it is completely and if I might say, even oppository - to breaking a home run (all via http://www.thefreedictionary.com/break)! And no, I won't investigate anything, I'll not file any report on what it's not working with this kernel and my hardware. Yep, I have already realized this, but thanks to confirming nonetheless :). Regressions in kernels are the thing I hate the most in this world. Yes, this is certainly one of the cruelest and merciless things in the world, I must agree.. :( I've experienced kernel regressions in the past every 6 months with each and every Ubuntu release -- and those were kernels supposed to be tested well-enough. Apparently they weren't. Let me apologize on behalf of Ubuntu developers and Linus Torvalds himself for not being proactive enough to make kernels work on your hardware, I believe that they will be really ashamed of themselves at the moment they'll read this. Sorry :(. What I like in Linux is never the kernel. This seems to be apparently contradictory to some other phrases, but I have to agree - I like never kernel, for example, the 3.0 seems to be great (for me!) Never ever. World is s busy those days... It's monolithic, impossible to be properly tested, and managed by a stupid fat arrogant guy called Linus. Yep, I agree, he will be even more ashamed of himself after reading this... :( The only kernels I loved were 1.2.13 and1.3.18. 2.2.16 was pretty cool, and 2.4.1 with reiserfs was nice too, but yes, those new shiny trending things - even being a bit cool - are still among the most hated things, this is so very true :(. I have to confess that they must learn a thing or two from DOS - almost 30 years without a remote hole in default install, and working as stable and fast as possible since their first release! After that, the kernel was just a nuisance -- like the government, the taxes, the Microsoft tax, etc. Yep, I agree with you, the governments, taxes, Microsoft and its tax are almost as bad as kernel regressions (mentioned above), but they are still are a far cry from those! But once again, let me apologize for the Linux community, Free Software developers, Linus Torvalds himself and - of course - mr. Richard Matthew Stallman for not being proactive enough in their efforts to make GNU/Linux working on your computer in most flawless and perfect way. I believe they feel really achamed now and as a sign of my support for their cause, and due to my involvement in the open source community, I will mourn those tragic events today with a minute of silence on this mailing list (starting now). -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
On 07/16/2011 07:29 AM, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: you still can use the kernel 2.6 which is installed on your machine, installing a newer kernel doesn't uninstall the previous one. yes, I can, but only because I've edited menu.lst _manually_. the new kernel added 2 grub entries, at the end, both pointing to the 3.0.0 kernel. and the default one (first one) also booted the 3.0.0 kernel. Every previous kernel I've installed (all of them) updates menu.lst with an entry for the previous kernel. Granted, it's not the default, but if you're hanging out here you ought to be able to handle that :) If it's as you describe, then it's a packaging bug that breaks with previous practice.
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
2011/7/16 Oliver Burger oliver@googlemail.com Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely not. I cannot confirm, I'm offline Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message. can anyone confirm? confirm magnus
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 14:31 +0300, Ahmad Samir a écrit : On 16 July 2011 03:02, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 à 12:11 +0200, nicolas vigier a écrit : On Wed, 13 Jul 2011, Samuel Verschelde wrote: Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 00:30:41, nicolas vigier a écrit : Hello. mgarepo version 1.9.11 adds maintdb command : $ mgarepo maintdb --help Usage: Take maintainership of one package : mgarepo maintdb set [package] [login] Remove yourself from maintainer of a package : mgarepo maintdb set [package] nobody See who is maintainer of a package : mgarepo maintdb get [package] See the list of all packages with their maintainer : mgarepo maintdb get I used in in Mageia 1 using the package in updates_testing and it works well. Ok, it's moved to updates now. Wasn't it against the policy ( ie, this is neither a bugfix, this is a version update, providing feature ) ? That is a bug fix; is there any other way a Mageia packager running mga1 can set/unset himself as a maintainer of a package in the official Mageia repos? Yes : - using cauldron in a vm, a chroot - backporting by himself the package Packagers convenience do not seems a reason to bypass our policies. That is not a feature, that's a basic requirement in repository access and management tool for a distro, that was missing and is now available, that warrants an official update, IMHO... Everybody has a different vision of what is a basic requirement, and the problem with such reasoning is that we first start to say this is not a new feature, and then, someone say I need to have this in stable and like $FOO, I think that's a basic requirement, so we should backport/upgrade. All packagers should have a cauldron installed somewhere, or that mean they cannot test any packages or try to reproduce any bugs on it ( ie, do the job of a package maintainer ). And so if they do not have, I do not think we should encourage them to do so. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Mageia 2 specifications] Systemd or not systemd
Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org writes: People on Fedora list were quite reluctant to changes ( to say the least ), and I am pretty sure that someone will hit a unrelated corner case in the last minute. Rtp was not really fond of systemd on arm and embedded system either. Do you have more details about the issues on arm/embedded? How could it be worse than forking our dozens of shell scripts? -- Olivier Blin - blino
Re: [Mageia-dev] util-linux vs util-linux-ng
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 05:33, D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net wrote: Hi, just wondering, is the switch from util-linux-ng 2.18 to util-linux 2.19+ planned? not yet because nobody proposed or had time, but if you want this is i think the perfect time Cool, I can help with that! What would be the best solution - import a new util-linux package, with Obsoletes/Provides for util-linux-ng; or rename util-linux-ng in svn to util-linux and update the spec? -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] util-linux vs util-linux-ng
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net wrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 05:33, D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net wrote: Hi, just wondering, is the switch from util-linux-ng 2.18 to util-linux 2.19+ planned? not yet because nobody proposed or had time, but if you want this is i think the perfect time Cool, I can help with that! What would be the best solution - import a new util-linux package, with Obsoletes/Provides for util-linux-ng; or rename util-linux-ng in svn to util-linux and update the spec? i would prefer a rename, that way we keep the history in the SVN
Re: [Mageia-dev] util-linux vs util-linux-ng
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:13, D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net wrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 05:33, D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net wrote: Hi, just wondering, is the switch from util-linux-ng 2.18 to util-linux 2.19+ planned? not yet because nobody proposed or had time, but if you want this is i think the perfect time Cool, I can help with that! What would be the best solution - import a new util-linux package, with Obsoletes/Provides for util-linux-ng; or rename util-linux-ng in svn to util-linux and update the spec? i would prefer a rename, that way we keep the history in the SVN On further thinking, probably it would be to have it imported it as a new package, mostly for 1 reason: - If we rename util-linux-ng, it will break possible updates of it for mageia1 (as it will be gone from svn) Also, I've disabled the loopAES patch which is hopelessly outdated and broken and only gets updated sometimes over past years. I think there are much better solutions now, and actually I think that we could drop it - but I did not wanted to take this decision without additional discussion. If we should keep it, it can be updated after a reasonable amount of work, but it will get broken again with a new util-linux release over and over again. So I'd vote for dropping it. But besides that, util-linux 2.19.1 is there now, I'll try importing it today (but with 3g connections it is hard to make promises).. -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] util-linux vs util-linux-ng
Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net writes: On further thinking, probably it would be to have it imported it as a new package, mostly for 1 reason: - If we rename util-linux-ng, it will break possible updates of it for mageia1 (as it will be gone from svn) Why that? It will still be available in the /updates/1/ SVN branch -- Olivier Blin - blino
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
2011/7/16 magnus magnus@googlemail.com: 2011/7/16 Oliver Burger oliver@googlemail.com Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely not. I cannot confirm, I'm offline LOL! Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message. can anyone confirm? confirm Confirmed here as well. But it must be related to kernel change. Booting with previous kernel = wifi works, booting with new kernel = wifi does not work (The chip is recognized and I see the available access points but no connection possible) See also https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=15t=782 -- wobo
[Mageia-dev] freezing (not totaly but making it unusable) mageia (and mandriva cooker) as guest using virtualbox
I thought I would post this because very likely some other user are experiencing this: Afte upgrading a guest system from mandriva 2010.2 or older to cooker or Mageia, the system becomes very unresponsive after a random period or time ( just after boot up to 3 hours). Upgrading the virtualbox on the host to 4.0.10 solved this problem. I haven't been seen it anymore for two days. -- Thomas
Re: [Mageia-dev] util-linux vs util-linux-ng
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 13:02, Olivier Blin mag...@blino.org wrote: Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net writes: On further thinking, probably it would be to have it imported it as a new package, mostly for 1 reason: - If we rename util-linux-ng, it will break possible updates of it for mageia1 (as it will be gone from svn) Why that? It will still be available in the /updates/1/ SVN branch Hmm perhaps you are right and I am over-thinking this. In any case, it is in svn now. -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
2011/7/16 Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com: Confirmed here as well. But it must be related to kernel change. Booting with previous kernel = wifi works, booting with new kernel = wifi does not work (The chip is recognized and I see the available access points but no connection possible) See also https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=15t=782 I just tried it. After rebooting into Kernel-2.6.38.8 the applet is showing the status correct as online. Everything works. After rebooting into kernel-3.0.0 gain, the applet shows the status as inactive, but wlan works. Since someone mentioned something about suspend, I tried that as well. After resume, there is no change here. The applet shows inactive, but the wlan works. Oliver
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
2011/7/16 Oliver Burger oliver@googlemail.com: 2011/7/16 Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com: Confirmed here as well. But it must be related to kernel change. Booting with previous kernel = wifi works, booting with new kernel = wifi does not work (The chip is recognized and I see the available access points but no connection possible) See also https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=15t=782 I just tried it. After rebooting into Kernel-2.6.38.8 the applet is showing the status correct as online. Everything works. After rebooting into kernel-3.0.0 gain, the applet shows the status as inactive, but wlan works. Since someone mentioned something about suspend, I tried that as well. After resume, there is no change here. The applet shows inactive, but the wlan works. Wow! I would not think of this! I did not try because the system tells me that wifi does not work - one must either have a very sick mind or be a Linux user to test it anyway! :) -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
2011/7/16 Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com: 2011/7/16 Oliver Burger oliver@googlemail.com: 2011/7/16 Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com: Confirmed here as well. But it must be related to kernel change. Booting with previous kernel = wifi works, booting with new kernel = wifi does not work (The chip is recognized and I see the available access points but no connection possible) See also https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=15t=782 I just tried it. After rebooting into Kernel-2.6.38.8 the applet is showing the status correct as online. Everything works. After rebooting into kernel-3.0.0 gain, the applet shows the status as inactive, but wlan works. Since someone mentioned something about suspend, I tried that as well. After resume, there is no change here. The applet shows inactive, but the wlan works. Wow! I would not think of this! I did not try because the system tells me that wifi does not work - one must either have a very sick mind or be a Linux user to test it anyway! :) Your decision :D To be honest, I wouldn't have tried as well, but I had pidgin opened and somebody began to chat with me although the applet showed me, I'm offline... So I checked with ifconfig, after he convinced me, he was not some ghost on my motherboard ;-) So at least here it's only a problem with the applet, not with the wlan itself. Oliver
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
Crazy, with connected lan I have no connection and I cannot switch to wifi. Without connected lan, the applet shows no connection but it lies
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
'Twas brillig, and Radu-Cristian FOTESCU at 16/07/11 11:47 did gyre and gimble: tmb, I hate you. making kernel-desktop-latest to point to kernel-desktop-3.0.0-0.rc7.2.1.mga2 instead of kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.38.8-5.mga2 was a big mistake. there should have been something like kernel-desktop-latest3 for a while, to let people test that 3.0 thing (rc, right? I know this is cauldron, but I'd still prefer a kernel that works) while still having a 2.6 kernel. WTF? We do this quite regularly... the rc's have been pushed in cooker and I'm pretty sure cauldron in the past. The fact that this is 3.x.x rather 2.6.38 is pretty much a whim of numbering and nothing specifically relating to anything significant or similar. And who cares if -latest is updated. Your old kernel is not removed and TMB gave you forewarning about it. This is really one of the lamest complaints ever!!! Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
'Twas brillig, and Radu-Cristian FOTESCU at 16/07/11 12:55 did gyre and gimble: Once you manually touch menu.lst, it's never going to be properly updated afterwards. Rubbish. I've manually edited menu.lst in the past and my changes/additions are correctly kept and also added to newly installed kernels and I still get version-specific entries added until I uninstall the kernel in question. Whatever you've done to cause this it's your own doing. If you delve into such things you have to suffer the consequences. Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] Where is the KDE WM ?
'Twas brillig, and Ahmad Samir at 16/07/11 09:06 did gyre and gimble: On 15 July 2011 23:20, Colin Guthrie mag...@colin.guthr.ie wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Balcaen John at 15/07/11 20:16 did gyre and gimble: On Friday 15 July 2011 15:06:11 Frank Griffin wrote: On 07/15/2011 02:28 PM, Frank Griffin wrote: Has anyone else noticed that as of updating yesterday or today, the windows in KDE have no titlebars, and cannot be moved or closed (except through the individual app) ? I used to see this occasionally under GNOME 2.32, but logging out/in again usually put it right. That doesn't work in the current KDE. All windows open in the top left of the screen with no enclosing frame, i.e. the MenuBar is the topmost thing you see. Turning Compiz off gets the titlebars back, but I've had Compiz on for a week or more without this problem. Googling shows that there is some conflict between Compiz and KDE, and other distro forums mentioned a compiz-kde package. Has something similar not been rebuilt for the new KDE ? I just finished to push compiz 0.8.8 (works is done by julien) everything is working here. How do you configure compiz ? Here it's simply working by selecting compiz as the default windows manager using systemsettings ( kcmshell4 componentchooser in konsole) Interesting, that method never really worked before (or at least I never tested it). It worked since mikala added http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/kdebase4-runtime/current/SOURCES/kdebase-runtime-4.6.0-fedora-support-for-compiz.patch, IIUC. Ahh. FWIW, I think I always patched compiz to ensure it started the decorator for you... So a question is: Is compiz running but without decorations? If yes, then is the decoration plugin loaded in compiz itself? If yes, then I'd suggest that either: 1. Compiz is no longer staring the decorator for some reason. or 2. The script compiz-window-decorator is not working. That's probably the first place to start. Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
WTF? We do this quite regularly... the rc's have been pushed in cooker and I'm pretty sure cauldron in the past. The fact that this is 3.x.x rather 2.6.38 is pretty much a whim of numbering and nothing specifically relating to anything significant or similar. And who cares if -latest is updated. Your old kernel is not removed and TMB gave you forewarning about it. This is really one of the lamest complaints ever!!! Notwithstanding that this is cauldron, not stable, it is _not_ like an update from 2.6.38.8-desktop-2 to 2.6.38.8-desktop-5 This is a _major_ kernel update, even if 3.0.0-rc7 is actually 2.6.40-rc7. As a matter of fact, while 2.6.38.8 was a _very_ stable kernel, this one is _not_, The latest _stable_ kernel is 2.6.39.3, not this bloody 2.6.40-rc7, aka 3.0.0-rc7. And I don't remember of any forewarning. Also, even in Cauldron, shouldn't it have stayed for more time in testing? Finally, when you upgrade a regular package (say, LibreOffice, which was recently updated) to a new version, it is extremely unlikely that you would update it to a Beta/RC one, even in Cauldron. Then why your standards are _lower_ when comes to the kernel -- the most important component of all?!?!? I am using Mageia because it's one of the best distros out there. I am using Cauldron because I need newer stuff -- and I'm also building some even newer packages every now and then, as I need them. But I don't trust _your_ judgment, folks, your inconsistent policies, your questionable common sense. As FLOSS developers, you're first of all full of pride, pride, and pride again. You're _always_ right -- you're Gods, after all. Well, I'm an atheist then. R-C
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
2011/7/16 Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca Finally, when you upgrade a regular package (say, LibreOffice, which was recently updated) to a new version, it is extremely unlikely that you would update it to a Beta/RC one, even in Cauldron. Then why your standards are _lower_ when comes to the kernel -- the most important component of all?!?!? Well, LO is probably exception, AFAIK mostly due to its building troubles but at least KDE has always had almost all alphas and betas and RCs in cooker/cauldron R-C
Re: [Mageia-dev] Ownership of /usr/share/man/XX, %find_lang --with-man
Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 09 juillet 2011 à 14:46 +0200, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : I used the --with-man option of the %find_lang RPM macro, but noticed that it adds all /usr/share/man/XX and /usr/share/man/XX/manX directories to the package, which, it seems, is bad. Spturtle noticed that for example /usr/share/man/sr belongs to no other package and prefers that it belongs to too much packages than to no package at all. I looked at what fedora does, and it looks like they added all those translated manpages dirs to the filesystem package ( see http://sophie.zarb.org/explorer/usr/share/man/sr and select fedora ) It would solve the problem at hand and we could start cleaning wrong ownerships, such as those : http://sophie.zarb.org/explorer/usr/share/man/fr (select mageia) Filesystem sound the logical place to put everything. The real problem is to find the canonical list of supported languages. It seems to me that we should treat all languages the same. But not create directories/assign ownership for languages not on the user's system. So that would mean assigning ownership (to filesystem) when an arbitrary new language is added, or systematically denying ownership for all such directories. (If readily done, assigning to filesystem does sound better.) Either way I think the build system could play a role in this. And maybe rpmlint. Since I don't know how ownership is stored, nor how ownership is now assigned for such directories, I don't know how we would implement this. But it might be an idea, once we decide what to do (depending on what is workable), that we have a utility that will clean the users' package database, to conform to our new rules. Another 2 cents. -- André
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
'Twas brillig, and Radu-Cristian FOTESCU at 16/07/11 18:48 did gyre and gimble: WTF? We do this quite regularly... the rc's have been pushed in cooker and I'm pretty sure cauldron in the past. The fact that this is 3.x.x rather 2.6.38 is pretty much a whim of numbering and nothing specifically relating to anything significant or similar. And who cares if -latest is updated. Your old kernel is not removed and TMB gave you forewarning about it. This is really one of the lamest complaints ever!!! Notwithstanding that this is cauldron, not stable, it is _not_ like an update from 2.6.38.8-desktop-2 to 2.6.38.8-desktop-5 This is a _major_ kernel update, even if 3.0.0-rc7 is actually 2.6.40-rc7. It is a major version update only in number, not in features. If it is actually 2.6.40, then it is technically a micro update... (version numbers are major.minor.micro... this is accepted terminology). As a matter of fact, while 2.6.38.8 was a _very_ stable kernel, this one is _not_, Perhaps not for you. It's working fine for me. That is a _very_ subjective statement without _any_ facts. The latest _stable_ kernel is 2.6.39.3, not this bloody 2.6.40-rc7, aka 3.0.0-rc7. So? No one said this was a stable kernel anyway! This is a _development_ distro. You've got to expect this kind of thing. If you don't, you shouldn't use it and you shouldn't be trolling our *development* mailing lists with your requests for *stability*! (and regardless of what you say about not calling serious people trolls, your behaviour is classic troll behaviour and you have done nothing to present yourself as a serious person other than just saying you are. This is something you have to earn by your actions, not state and expect people to accept). And I don't remember of any forewarning. Then you obviously don't read the development list, nor read the list of packages you are installing. This is therefore entirely your own fault. Also, even in Cauldron, shouldn't it have stayed for more time in testing? Cauldron is for testing. That's the whole point of it? This is exactly what's happening now. You are under a massive miscomprehension me thinks. Finally, when you upgrade a regular package (say, LibreOffice, which was recently updated) to a new version, it is extremely unlikely that you would update it to a Beta/RC one, even in Cauldron. Then why your standards are _lower_ when comes to the kernel -- the most important component of all?!?!? RC and beta versions will hit cauldron frequently when the maintainer feels it is the right thing to do. Perhaps the maintainer is an upstream developer too and is using cauldron to get wider feedback (I'll be doing this soon for PulseAudio for example). RC and even beta versions hit cooker all the time and this isn't going to be any different here. You're making statements with no basis in reality here. I am using Mageia because it's one of the best distros out there. I am using Cauldron because I need newer stuff -- and I'm also building some even newer packages every now and then, as I need them. If you are using Cauldron, then you should expect this kind of thing. If you don't want this, do not use cauldron. It's not a hard choice. But I don't trust _your_ judgment, folks, your inconsistent policies, your questionable common sense. As FLOSS developers, you're first of all full of pride, pride, and pride again. You're _always_ right -- you're Gods, after all. Well, I'm an atheist then. WTF? Jeeze I wish I hadn't spent time replying sensibly to the points above when you sign off with such a blatant troll Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
2011/7/16 Radu-Cristian FOTESCU beranger...@yahoo.ca Well, LO is probably exception, AFAIK mostly due to its building troubles but at least KDE has always had almost all alphas and betas and RCs in cooker/cauldron KDE is the main reason I'm using Cauldron. Since KDE 4.0.0, KDE is never good/stable enough, so it _always_ makes sense to install all the RCs. (There are some DEs that are never stable enough. Or, when they are really polished -- think KDE 3.5.10 or GNOME 2.32 --, there are some benevolent teams of dictators who decide to jump to an unstable boat -- thinl KDE 4.0.0, GNOME 3.0.) I've seen no betas here, only RCs (4.6.3 - 4.6.4 - 4.6.90 - 4.6.95). Fair enough. Not in Mageia, yet... But Mandriva had e.g after 4.5.0 4.5.65, 4.5.67, 4.5.68. 4.5.71, 4.5.74 and so on - i.e. surely betas and IINM some alphas, too. So it surely is not so rare to have in development version as cooker/cauldron quite unstable versions. R-C
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
Seriously, look in a mirror and judge yourself, not others. OK, updating from 2.6.38 to 2.6.40-0.rc7 aka 3.0.0-0.rc7 was the right thing. Satisfied now? There seem to be several standards when judging what to do in an unstable distro. In a released distro, the common rule is _not_ to update anything, unless the minor updates stop and there isn't any other way to provide a security fix. A next major (or, sometimes, even a next minor) update only comes with the next distro release. Backports are possible, but optional. People needing newer versions of specific packages either are building them themselves from upstream (quite rare), or they're using 3rd-party repos (e.g. PPAs). So, sorry to repeat: in a _stable_ distro, even upgrading to the next _stable_ release is usually _forbidden_. (Fedora is kind of an exception here, but passons...) In something like Cauldron them, there are several degrees of possible freedoms: i. Upgrading packages to the next _stable_ version, like the recent LibreOffice update. This is the first degree of differentiation from a stable/release distro. ii. Upgrading packages to the next _beta/RC_ version, like it's usually the case with KDE, GNOME (and rightfully so). This is the second degree of differentiation from a stable/release distro. IMHO, this should be used with care. When you say caludron is by definition unstable, we don't need an extra testing stage, you implicitely state that Fedora Rawhide's policies are stupid and only yours is a valid one. iii. Upgrading the _kernel_ (or the system and session manager, or other _critical_ system parts) to the next _beta/RC_ version, which IMNSHO is not the right thing to do, unless there are 2 different metapackages (latest-stable-kernel and latest-kernel), so that people who are using a cooker/cauldron/rawhide/unstable distro be able to choose the degree of risk they're willing to adopt: a). risking everything; b). risking mostly application/DE breakage, yet having a reasonable degree of confidence that the system as a whole is not really broken except in extremely rare cases. Of course, your distro, your policies. OTOH, I've had in the past the proof that FLOSS developers typically lack common sense. A few examples: 1. Arch Linux developers can't understand that developing a few scripts (a la Slackware, not a la Mandriva) that would assist the user into further system DE configuration after the initial install makes a lot of sense. 100 hours of developers' time vs. 1,000,000 hours of users' wasted post-install time. = Develop once, use by everyone. 2. The same for Gentoo-like distros (stage 1). Having everybody building every package for every system is useless in 99.% of the time, as the claimed optimisations might be of 2-3% in terms of speed, whereas the millions of users' wasted time (and electrical energy!) are a huge nonsense -- and it's anti-ecological too! = Build once, install by everyone. 3. FreeBSD devs have been extremely opaque wrt binary updates. I've not been using FreeBSD since ages, but I believe that, even if they do have binary updates now, they're not in plain repositories that could be browsed (FTP/HTTP) like the Linux updates repos. Once again, patching the FreeBSD style is a huge waste of time and adds unnecessary risks. 4. XFCE devs really can't understand/accept that _not_ having for the desktop icons a text label drawn with transparency outline (instead of the default opaque background) makes their DE look like Win95. (Transparency came with Win98 and outlining... I'm not sure.) 5. There are gazillions of _relevant_ bugs (even in applications like gedit, kate, whatnot) that never got fixed, whereas the developers of the respective DEs always try to add new features, sometimes exotic and irrelevant ones (compiz-included). It's like they prefer the glitter (the bling-bling) to _relevant_ functionality. Yet, they develop for Linux, not for Windows. Go figure. 6. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Countless examples (y compris KDE4, GNOME3, but I'n not going into this), I'll just say SysV init/systemd/upstart/whatnot -- I'm not even interested in this crap. It is crap for me because: i. Booting time is irrelevant for servers, they're 99.9% up. ii. Only stupid desktop users would shutdown when hybernation (suspend-to-disk) is available. iii. Gaining 10 seconds in boot time is not worthing, if the price is a disruptive redesign of the _entire_ init process, with tons of downstream work for everyone. But, as I said, I never trust the judgment of FLOSS/pro-bono developers. So I don't expect any of you to understand my rationale -- I even expect Dodonov to piss on my words, as he already did today. (Quite unexpected, as he already worked for Microsoft, and so far no Microsoft guy mocked me.) R-C aka beranger
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Oliver Burger oliver@googlemail.com wrote: I just updated my system and am now running kernel-3.0... Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely not. Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message. can anyone confirm? If yes, I'd post a bug report (against what?), Which outputs, information would be needed? Oliver see : https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1266
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
On 07/16/2011 03:53 PM, D.Morgan wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Oliver Burger
oliver@googlemail.com wrote:
I just updated my system and am now running kernel-3.0...
Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely
not. Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message.
can anyone confirm?
If yes, I'd post a bug report (against what?), Which outputs,
information would be needed?
Oliver
see :
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1266
Yep, the workaround in the bug report fixes the issue.
--- tools.pm2011-07-16 16:03:19.729969872 -0400
+++ /usr/lib/libDrakX/network/tools.pm 2011-07-16 16:00:55.702129467 -0400
@@ -263,7 +263,7 @@
sub get_routes() {
my %routes;
-foreach (cat_(/proc/net/route)) {
+foreach (sort {$b cmp $a} cat_(/proc/net/route)) {
if
(/^(\S+)\s+([0-9A-F]+)\s+([0-9A-F]+)\s+[0-9A-F]+\s+\d+\s+\d+\s+(\d+)\s+([0-9A-F]+)/)
{
if (defined $3) { $routes{$1}{gateway} = hex($3) ?
host_hex_to_dotted($3) : $routes{$1}{network} }
if (defined $2) { $routes{$1}{network} =
host_hex_to_dotted($2) }
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
The above statement clearly says I've only read one feature of systemd Maybe it's not about systemd. Maybe it's about upstart. Or maybe it's about a half-dozen init system I don't care about -- and you know why? Not just because I'm not a sysadmin, but because the public image -- those 99% of the enthusiastic blog posts and reviews and whatever the Linux fanbois are doing -- only stress on boot time charts, and hey, this one boots 1 second faster! The bling-bling glitter is not my fault. This is how Linux is marketed -- and not only by Ubuntu/Canonical. Still, restarting the network w/o losing any connection (I can't figure out how this is possible) should not belong IMVHO to the init system. It could as well be a specific change only related to networking. There must be more than one way to do a thing. I can't say I'm surprised that you're jumping to conclusions again and making up your own reason and justifications as this is exactly how you've behaved on this list thus far. This doesn't change the fact that in Linux, as soon as a technology is mature stable enough, someone gets on steroids and decides to develop a totally different replacement, which is then pushed on the market while not entirely production-ready. Of course, RHEL won't get it until it's production ready (except that it got KDE4 with plenty of bugs), but by market I wasn't only referring to the commercial offerings. Market is also people trying to escape the Microsoft tax. I am using Linux because it's funny, but XP SP3 is far more stable to me, so I always keep a working partition with it. 2 BSODs in 2 years (and it's constantly updated), at pair with 2 kernel panics in 2 years (for stable distros!), but hundreds and hundreds of KDE or apps crashes. I'm not jumping to any conclusion, I'm just not a fan of anything. It's hard to find someone working in IT that is not proud of the field -- you too are proud. I am working in IT and I don't praise anything. I'm sick of the lack of quality in the software field, that's all, and planned or perceived obsolescence is one of the causes, unnecessary complexity is another one, and there are many more -- mostly cultural and a sign of our ages. (Maybe I'm too old and, as an electrical engineer, I remember the times when everything that worked was hardware and wired logic at most.) R-C
Re: [Mageia-dev] Revert of Rasqal and Redland
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 12:02 AM, D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: hello, with my sysadmin hat i just reverted on the main server + on the svn. This have been asked by mikala because this breaks soprarno ( so KDE ) and ardour ( and maybe more applications ). Please do not update packages randomly if you don't know what you do, this can save our days. here a bugreport mikala shown to me that explain the pb : http://bugs.librdf.org/mantis/view.php?id=441
Re: [Mageia-dev] Revert of Rasqal and Redland
On Sunday 17 July 2011 00:14:07 D.Morgan wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 12:02 AM, D.Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: hello, with my sysadmin hat i just reverted on the main server + on the svn. This have been asked by mikala because this breaks soprarno ( so KDE ) and ardour ( and maybe more applications ). Please do not update packages randomly if you don't know what you do, this can save our days. here a bugreport mikala shown to me that explain the pb : http://bugs.librdf.org/mantis/view.php?id=441 In summary we should wait for upgrade until soprano is ported to the « new » redland. Adour build is also broken with the new redland i did not test libreoffice (too long to build just for a test for me :D ) neither slv2 Regards, -- Balcaen John
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
'Twas brillig, and Radu-Cristian FOTESCU at 16/07/11 22:33 did gyre and gimble: I'm not jumping to any conclusion, I'm just not a fan of anything. It's hard to find someone working in IT that is not proud of the field -- you too are proud. I am working in IT and I don't praise anything. I'm sick of the lack of quality in the software field, that's all, and planned or perceived obsolescence is one of the causes, unnecessary complexity is another one, and there are many more -- mostly cultural and a sign of our ages. (Maybe I'm too old and, as an electrical engineer, I remember the times when everything that worked was hardware and wired logic at most.) Of course I'm proud of certain things I've done, but I'm not stupid enough to think that everything I've touched is perfect or that things do not need more work. If I thought everything was perfect, I'd stop stop working on things as there would be nothing left to do. That doesn't meant I cannot praise anything. The two are not mutually exclusive as you seem to suggest. I can appreciate good design in a product, even if it does have bugs or gaps in it's implementation yet to be filled. I fully appreciate things need to be fixed in certain areas and I appreciate the perfectly valid reasons for people wanting to change even mature and established packages. Just because something is mature doesn't mean it works in the best or most robust way. Just because something has been around for while should not make it immune to any rethinks. Sick of the lack of quality is perfectly acceptable, but you know what fixes that? People who care about it actually *working* on it. Complaining about it doesn't help anyone! Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] kernel 3.0 is a big mistake in cauldron
Sick of the lack of quality is perfectly acceptable, but you know what fixes that? People who care about it actually *working* on it. Complaining about it doesn't help anyone! You're right in theory, and probably also in practice. However, as a skeptical and pessimistic by nature (and by experience: I believe not in progress, but in human regress, and this has nothing to do with technological progress), I fear that the OS field might eventually reach the status we're now seeing in the smartphones field: 1. everyone curses his or her smartphone, no matter the make and model, for various design flaws, hardware or software (always software too); 2. what happens is that newer smartphones models are issued (updating the firmware for existing/old models is discouraged in this consumerist society), with different design or implementation flaws (including software issues); 3. now curses his or her smartphone, just a different model. Sticking to maturity and stability is generally a sign of stagnation, not a sign of progress. However, nowadays everything is incredibly complex as compared to, say, 50 years ago. At the same time, no matter what we believe, our capabilities of dealing with complex situations, and the procedures of managing such processes are not satisfactory enough. Through complexity, we've reached a level of fragility unforeseen before. And that includes software. When I'm looking at the hundreds of thousands of bug reports at an upstream project (KDE, GNOME) or distros like *buntu, Fedora, EL, I cannot but jump to the conclusion that the whole process is out of control, and the bug-fixing (or even bug triaging) is nothing else but a lottery. R-C
Re: [Mageia-dev] [RPM] cauldron core/release gtk+2.0-2.24.5-6.mga2
On Monday 11 July 2011 21:46:33 Mageia Team wrote: Name: gtk+2.0 Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 2.24.5Vendor: Mageia.Org Release : 6.mga2Build Date: Mon Jul 11 21:15:24 [...] wally wally 2.24.5-6.mga2: + Revision: 122408 - fix gir package requires (require libs) We should remove from repository lib(64)gtk+2.0-gir2.0-2.24.5-4.mga2. binary package. -- Balcaen John
Re: [Mageia-dev] Problems with udev in kernel 2.6.38.8-desktop
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 22:26, Jeff Robins jeffrobins...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hello, I updated my system and it installed the latest kernel (2.6.38.8-desktop). When I rebooted the system it hung when starting udev. I shut down the system after 1 minute. If you boot without the 'splash=silent' parameter to kernel, does it says where exactly it stops? Also, it happens with the 3.0 kernel as well? -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] After last update net applet shows wrong status
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 17:05, Michael Altizer xi...@verizon.net wrote:
On 07/16/2011 03:53 PM, D.Morgan wrote:
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Oliver Burger
oliver@googlemail.com wrote:
I just updated my system and am now running kernel-3.0...
Now I notice, the net-applet shows, I am offline while I am definitely
not. Trying to connect using draknet-center I get an error message.
can anyone confirm?
If yes, I'd post a bug report (against what?), Which outputs,
information would be needed?
Oliver
see :
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_**bug.cgi?id=1266https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1266
Yep, the workaround in the bug report fixes the issue.
--- tools.pm2011-07-16 16:03:19.729969872 -0400
+++ /usr/lib/libDrakX/network/tool**s.pm http://tools.pm 2011-07-16
16:00:55.702129467 -0400
@@ -263,7 +263,7 @@
sub get_routes() {
my %routes;
-foreach (cat_(/proc/net/route)) {
+foreach (sort {$b cmp $a} cat_(/proc/net/route)) {
if
(/^(\S+)\s+([0-9A-F]+)\s+([0-**9A-F]+)\s+[0-9A-F]+\s+\d+\s+\**d+\s+(\d+)\s+([0-9A-F]+)/)
{
if (defined $3) { $routes{$1}{gateway} = hex($3) ?
host_hex_to_dotted($3) : $routes{$1}{network} }
if (defined $2) { $routes{$1}{network} = host_hex_to_dotted($2)
}
/proc/net/routes is a bit strange with 3.0+ kernels, I think that this patch
is probably the best way to handle it at the moment.
On a side note, Blino, is there a need to parse its content with a regexp?
All values there are tab-separated, so perhaps this 'if' check could be much
simplified with a split(), no?
--
Eugeni Dodonov
http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] util-linux vs util-linux-ng
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 13:09, Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net wrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 13:02, Olivier Blin mag...@blino.org wrote: Eugeni Dodonov eug...@dodonov.net writes: On further thinking, probably it would be to have it imported it as a new package, mostly for 1 reason: - If we rename util-linux-ng, it will break possible updates of it for mageia1 (as it will be gone from svn) Why that? It will still be available in the /updates/1/ SVN branch Hmm perhaps you are right and I am over-thinking this. In any case, it is in svn now. And now it is in cauldron, please let me know if it breaks something. -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] freezing (not totaly but making it unusable) mageia (and mandriva cooker) as guest using virtualbox
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 13:06, Thomas Spuhler tho...@btspuhler.com wrote: I thought I would post this because very likely some other user are experiencing this: Afte upgrading a guest system from mandriva 2010.2 or older to cooker or Mageia, the system becomes very unresponsive after a random period or time ( just after boot up to 3 hours). Yes, I've seen that, but just to confirm - the system was running kde, right? -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Mageia 2 specifications ] Grub2
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 22:35, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Grub 2 is also able to boot ext4 without trouble since several years. So keeping grub 1 for a while doesn't make sense at all if this is related to file system. And grub 2 also support reading grub 1 configuration file since September 2010. Perhaps a stupid question, but does it works with our gfxboot and drakboot? (I haven't tested it yet, but pcpa was a bit reluctant with it when I asked some weeks ago). -- Eugeni Dodonov http://eugeni.dodonov.net/
Re: [Mageia-dev] new mgarepo version
Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 16 juillet 2011 à 14:31 +0300, Ahmad Samir a écrit : On 16 July 2011 03:02, Michael Schererm...@zarb.org wrote: Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 à 12:11 +0200, nicolas vigier a écrit : On Wed, 13 Jul 2011, Samuel Verschelde wrote: Le mercredi 13 juillet 2011 00:30:41, nicolas vigier a écrit : Hello. mgarepo version 1.9.11 adds maintdb command : $ mgarepo maintdb --help Usage: Take maintainership of one package : mgarepo maintdb set [package] [login] Remove yourself from maintainer of a package : mgarepo maintdb set [package] nobody See who is maintainer of a package : mgarepo maintdb get [package] See the list of all packages with their maintainer : mgarepo maintdb get I used in in Mageia 1 using the package in updates_testing and it works well. Ok, it's moved to updates now. Wasn't it against the policy ( ie, this is neither a bugfix, this is a version update, providing feature ) ? That is a bug fix; is there any other way a Mageia packager running mga1 can set/unset himself as a maintainer of a package in the official Mageia repos? Yes : - using cauldron in a vm, a chroot - backporting by himself the package Packagers convenience do not seems a reason to bypass our policies. That is not a feature, that's a basic requirement in repository access and management tool for a distro, that was missing and is now available, that warrants an official update, IMHO... Everybody has a different vision of what is a basic requirement, and the problem with such reasoning is that we first start to say this is not a new feature, and then, someone say I need to have this in stable and like $FOO, I think that's a basic requirement, so we should backport/upgrade. +1 I think it's better to follow policy as much as possible. And try to avoid a lot of ad hoc exceptions. If we come to a concensus on an exception, that would effectively revise our policy. But it is better to revise policy first. A new feature, however essential it may seem, is still a new feature. And nothing is wrong with using the occasional backport for specific reasons. Although I installed the mgarepo update, I would have looked for it in backports if it hadn't been in updates. All packagers should have a cauldron installed somewhere, or that mean they cannot test any packages or try to reproduce any bugs on it ( ie, do the job of a package maintainer ). Good point. Have to do that soon. That should be documented for apprentices. (If not already.) And so if they do not have, I do not think we should encourage them to do so. -- André
