Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Luc Menut at 06/03/12 23:24 did gyre and gimble: > Le 06/03/2012 14:35, Colin Guthrie a écrit : >> 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? >>> >>> Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps >>> was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since >>> there is nothing on first console. >> >> Just to expand on this point. >> >> getty's are started on demand these days. It's done by autovt@.service. >> >> If you want to configure static gettys then you can do so easily enough >> (just symlink /lib/systemd/system/getty*.service as >> /etc/systemd/systemd/multi-user.target.wants/getty@tty2.service to get a >> static getty on tty2. >> >> But if your system is typically a graphical system, then why bother >> stating it statically and have it running all the time using resources. >> Auto-activation seems fine as a default setup to me. >> >> >> Now, the problem you seemed to get was that no dm was installed and thus >> the /etc/X11/prefdm script reached the end. >> >> IMO we very much DO want to have something done at the end of this >> script to give the user some help. This might include stopping >> prefdm.service via systemd and starting the tty, or perhaps better, >> showing some specific help (either text, or via plymouth or similar). >> >> This is something that I've suggested in a bug, but no feedback on that >> idea yet: >> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4750 > > Bug 4750 - Unable to install Mageia beta 1 with raid ahci ??? > > are you sure it is this one? Crap. I have too many tabs!!! https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4769 Cheers Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
Le 06/03/2012 14:35, Colin Guthrie a écrit : 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since there is nothing on first console. Just to expand on this point. getty's are started on demand these days. It's done by autovt@.service. If you want to configure static gettys then you can do so easily enough (just symlink /lib/systemd/system/getty*.service as /etc/systemd/systemd/multi-user.target.wants/getty@tty2.service to get a static getty on tty2. But if your system is typically a graphical system, then why bother stating it statically and have it running all the time using resources. Auto-activation seems fine as a default setup to me. Now, the problem you seemed to get was that no dm was installed and thus the /etc/X11/prefdm script reached the end. IMO we very much DO want to have something done at the end of this script to give the user some help. This might include stopping prefdm.service via systemd and starting the tty, or perhaps better, showing some specific help (either text, or via plymouth or similar). This is something that I've suggested in a bug, but no feedback on that idea yet: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4750 Bug 4750 - Unable to install Mageia beta 1 with raid ahci ??? are you sure it is this one? Luc -- Luc Menut
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 20:29 did gyre and gimble: > Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 21:19:49 schreef Colin Guthrie: >> 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 20:09 did gyre and gimble: >>> Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 20:52:02 schreef Colin Guthrie: 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 19:41 did gyre and gimble: > Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 14:28:38 schreef Colin Guthrie: > [...] > >> Now I'm not sure on the logic inside the Xserver that is used to >> search for a free getty. it maybe starts from the current one and >> counts up. If so, this logic should (IMO) be changed to start >> searching from 1 that way it would relatively consistently start on >> vt1 even when restarted from tty2. >> >> Col > > have you been successfull with 2 user sessions? As in logging out and back in again or with fast user switching? The former has worked quite happily for me. Not tested the latter but I expect there to be some quirks. Col >>> >>> err, no, i mean 2 X sessions. >>> >>> often i have one KDE session running on vt8 and one for my wife on vt9 >>> and sometimes on for my daughter at vt10... >> >> OK, so fast user switching then. >> >>> the question is, with the prefdm only conflicting with the first getty, >>> will several X sessions be possible? >> >> Yeah. They should, in theory at least, start on vt2 and vt3, tho' this >> may depend on the desktop itself. With GDM+Gnome the second session >> starts on tty2, the third on tty3 etc. >> >> There is a caveat however. If you have switched to tty2 before picking >> the "Login as another user" option, then autovt will have kicked in and >> started a getty there. It then "hogs" tty2 and prevents X from using it. >> >> Of course if I manage to get my idea working, switching to tty2 when in >> graphical.target will actually give you a graphical login prompt anyway, >> so pretty much the same thing as picking the "Login as another user" >> option from within the first graphical session. >> >> Col > > ic... > > i do hope we get some kind of vt that will always be tty? i do sometimes > require that, when getting too much load and OOM'ing... Yeah I agree here. That's why I originally suggested keeping some TTY for text use (tho' I do still think the primary focus on a graphical setup should be for graphical login hence why tty1-8 (ish) should be IMO reserved for graphical logins, with text only on 9+ or similar. I think that's a good compromise, even if it's not what the greybeards expect (I do still consider myself to be a greybeard in some ways too here! I hope no one takes this as derogatory :D) > also, it'd be nice to have as possibility (in the dm) to start a tty session > instead of a graphical session (as an alternative) While I don't necessarily disagree with this, I think it should be very much de-emphasised. Not obvious for novice users, but something power users could find. Take care Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 21:19:49 schreef Colin Guthrie: > 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 20:09 did gyre and gimble: > > Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 20:52:02 schreef Colin Guthrie: > >> 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 19:41 did gyre and gimble: > >>> Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 14:28:38 schreef Colin Guthrie: > >>> [...] > >>> > Now I'm not sure on the logic inside the Xserver that is used to > search for a free getty. it maybe starts from the current one and > counts up. If so, this logic should (IMO) be changed to start > searching from 1 that way it would relatively consistently start on > vt1 even when restarted from tty2. > > Col > >>> > >>> have you been successfull with 2 user sessions? > >> > >> As in logging out and back in again or with fast user switching? > >> > >> The former has worked quite happily for me. Not tested the latter but I > >> expect there to be some quirks. > >> > >> Col > > > > err, no, i mean 2 X sessions. > > > > often i have one KDE session running on vt8 and one for my wife on vt9 > > and sometimes on for my daughter at vt10... > > OK, so fast user switching then. > > > the question is, with the prefdm only conflicting with the first getty, > > will several X sessions be possible? > > Yeah. They should, in theory at least, start on vt2 and vt3, tho' this > may depend on the desktop itself. With GDM+Gnome the second session > starts on tty2, the third on tty3 etc. > > There is a caveat however. If you have switched to tty2 before picking > the "Login as another user" option, then autovt will have kicked in and > started a getty there. It then "hogs" tty2 and prevents X from using it. > > Of course if I manage to get my idea working, switching to tty2 when in > graphical.target will actually give you a graphical login prompt anyway, > so pretty much the same thing as picking the "Login as another user" > option from within the first graphical session. > > Col ic... i do hope we get some kind of vt that will always be tty? i do sometimes require that, when getting too much load and OOM'ing... also, it'd be nice to have as possibility (in the dm) to start a tty session instead of a graphical session (as an alternative) but i guess the important parts are all the other things...
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 20:09 did gyre and gimble: > Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 20:52:02 schreef Colin Guthrie: >> 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 19:41 did gyre and gimble: >>> Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 14:28:38 schreef Colin Guthrie: >>> [...] >>> Now I'm not sure on the logic inside the Xserver that is used to search for a free getty. it maybe starts from the current one and counts up. If so, this logic should (IMO) be changed to start searching from 1 that way it would relatively consistently start on vt1 even when restarted from tty2. Col >>> >>> have you been successfull with 2 user sessions? >> >> As in logging out and back in again or with fast user switching? >> >> The former has worked quite happily for me. Not tested the latter but I >> expect there to be some quirks. >> >> Col > > err, no, i mean 2 X sessions. > > often i have one KDE session running on vt8 and one for my wife on vt9 and > sometimes on for my daughter at vt10... OK, so fast user switching then. > the question is, with the prefdm only conflicting with the first getty, will > several X sessions be possible? Yeah. They should, in theory at least, start on vt2 and vt3, tho' this may depend on the desktop itself. With GDM+Gnome the second session starts on tty2, the third on tty3 etc. There is a caveat however. If you have switched to tty2 before picking the "Login as another user" option, then autovt will have kicked in and started a getty there. It then "hogs" tty2 and prevents X from using it. Of course if I manage to get my idea working, switching to tty2 when in graphical.target will actually give you a graphical login prompt anyway, so pretty much the same thing as picking the "Login as another user" option from within the first graphical session. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 20:52:02 schreef Colin Guthrie: > 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 19:41 did gyre and gimble: > > Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 14:28:38 schreef Colin Guthrie: > > [...] > > > >> Now I'm not sure on the logic inside the Xserver that is used to search > >> for a free getty. it maybe starts from the current one and counts up. If > >> so, this logic should (IMO) be changed to start searching from 1 that > >> way it would relatively consistently start on vt1 even when restarted > >> from tty2. > >> > >> Col > > > > have you been successfull with 2 user sessions? > > As in logging out and back in again or with fast user switching? > > The former has worked quite happily for me. Not tested the latter but I > expect there to be some quirks. > > Col err, no, i mean 2 X sessions. often i have one KDE session running on vt8 and one for my wife on vt9 and sometimes on for my daughter at vt10... the question is, with the prefdm only conflicting with the first getty, will several X sessions be possible?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 20:50:11 schreef Colin Guthrie: [...] > >> Yeah. I would agree there has to be a limit. I'd say RC2 should be that > >> limit. If I've not found a better way of doing things by then, I'll do > >> whatever is needed to make a getty appear... > > > > There is no RC2 planned... > > > > Planned timetable is: > > > > beta2: March 15th > > rc: April 10th > > final: May 3rd > > OK, then I guess "by the rc" then :) > > Col release freeze is April 7th...
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 06/03/12 19:41 did gyre and gimble: > Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 14:28:38 schreef Colin Guthrie: > [...] >> Now I'm not sure on the logic inside the Xserver that is used to search >> for a free getty. it maybe starts from the current one and counts up. If >> so, this logic should (IMO) be changed to start searching from 1 that >> way it would relatively consistently start on vt1 even when restarted >> from tty2. >> >> Col > > have you been successfull with 2 user sessions? As in logging out and back in again or with fast user switching? The former has worked quite happily for me. Not tested the latter but I expect there to be some quirks. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Thomas Backlund at 06/03/12 19:30 did gyre and gimble: > 06.03.2012 20:36, Colin Guthrie skrev: >> 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 17:57 did gyre and gimble: > >>> Ah, ok, I understand your point now. >>> The big question is: What is the time span we are talking about here? >>> A week, month? Would you think you can achieve this better solution >>> until Mageia 2 RC? >> >> Perhaps by beta2, but more likely by RC. I'll certainly make sure that >> for beta2 a minimal install will properly present itself with >> multi-user.target by default such that a getty will be shown on tty1 (as >> already outlined, the getty on tty1 is only suppressed when there is >> supposed to be a graphical login - and only a problem when that fails!). >> >>> If so, I am totally ok with that. If you think it >>> will take longer than that, I do not think we can let this issue leave >>> hanging in the air when we approach Mageia 2 final, wasted work or >>> not. >> >> Yeah. I would agree there has to be a limit. I'd say RC2 should be that >> limit. If I've not found a better way of doing things by then, I'll do >> whatever is needed to make a getty appear... > > There is no RC2 planned... > > Planned timetable is: > > beta2: March 15th > rc: April 10th > final: May 3rd OK, then I guess "by the rc" then :) Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
Op dinsdag 06 maart 2012 14:28:38 schreef Colin Guthrie: [...] > Now I'm not sure on the logic inside the Xserver that is used to search > for a free getty. it maybe starts from the current one and counts up. If > so, this logic should (IMO) be changed to start searching from 1 that > way it would relatively consistently start on vt1 even when restarted > from tty2. > > Col have you been successfull with 2 user sessions?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
06.03.2012 20:36, Colin Guthrie skrev: > 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 17:57 did gyre and gimble: >> Ah, ok, I understand your point now. >> The big question is: What is the time span we are talking about here? >> A week, month? Would you think you can achieve this better solution >> until Mageia 2 RC? > > Perhaps by beta2, but more likely by RC. I'll certainly make sure that > for beta2 a minimal install will properly present itself with > multi-user.target by default such that a getty will be shown on tty1 (as > already outlined, the getty on tty1 is only suppressed when there is > supposed to be a graphical login - and only a problem when that fails!). > >> If so, I am totally ok with that. If you think it >> will take longer than that, I do not think we can let this issue leave >> hanging in the air when we approach Mageia 2 final, wasted work or >> not. > > Yeah. I would agree there has to be a limit. I'd say RC2 should be that > limit. If I've not found a better way of doing things by then, I'll do > whatever is needed to make a getty appear... There is no RC2 planned... Planned timetable is: beta2: March 15th rc: April 10th final: May 3rd -- Thomas
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Colin Guthrie : > 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 17:57 did gyre and gimble: >> 2012/3/6 Colin Guthrie : >>> 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 16:56 did gyre and gimble: 2012/3/6 Frank Griffin : > On 03/06/2012 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: >> >> If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support >> in >> case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a >> black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of >> messages >> instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution >> (or >> given instructions to provide more information)? > > > Probably a better solution, if you know that X is supposed to come up but > isn't, is to automatically log him in as some new ID whose shell is a > script > something like the rescue console script. The first thing it does is su > him > to prompt for the root password, and then presents a character-based > dialog > explaining his options, offering to run XFdrake, maybe running rpm/urpmi > to > see if all needed packages are installed, and giving him to option to exit > to a real shell if he wants. Yes, that would be the next step on the road to user-friendly desaster management. >>> >>> Well, that's my whole point!!! >>> As long as we do not have this a login prompt is better than nothing. >>> >>> So I should spend my time doing this, only to undo it later for a >>> different solution? >>> >>> I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to waste time on this until it's decided >>> that this is the all we're going to do and what we'll ship. >>> >>> As far as things stand I see it as tangential to what I'd like to >>> achieve so I'd rather spend what limited time I have working on that >>> than something that could ultimately be thrown away later. >> >> Ah, ok, I understand your point now. >> The big question is: What is the time span we are talking about here? >> A week, month? Would you think you can achieve this better solution >> until Mageia 2 RC? > > Perhaps by beta2, but more likely by RC. I'll certainly make sure that > for beta2 a minimal install will properly present itself with > multi-user.target by default such that a getty will be shown on tty1 (as > already outlined, the getty on tty1 is only suppressed when there is > supposed to be a graphical login - and only a problem when that fails!). > >> If so, I am totally ok with that. If you think it >> will take longer than that, I do not think we can let this issue leave >> hanging in the air when we approach Mageia 2 final, wasted work or >> not. > > Yeah. I would agree there has to be a limit. I'd say RC2 should be that > limit. If I've not found a better way of doing things by then, I'll do > whatever is needed to make a getty appear... > > [Just to explain further, displaying a tty on failure is tricky due to > the complex interplay of different and conflicting configurations. I > *could* just run agetty manually at the end of the /etc/X11/prefdm > script, but then this then this would be considered by systemd as being > part of the prefdm service and thus if you login and restart prefdm > (which might be common) it would first of all kill the getty itself as > part of the "stopping" procedure! Now if it fails the user would be > dumped back at a login prompt again... not really very user friendly! > Hence, to solve this properly it would really be a matter of changing > the current target (aka runlevel) from default.target (which will be an > alias for graphical.target) to multi-user.target, but this may have > other consequences. I think this latter solution (changing target) is > the correct solution, but it really needs to be played out and tested > thoroughly. I'm also not sure what consequences there are (if any) of > running a command to change the target while running a specific service. > I think all will be fine, but all the same I'd need to investigate. And > after all that of course, we're supposed to still support sysvinit too > so we I'll have to at least look into things mostly working there (I > won't aim for sysvinit to be fully quirk free as it is clearly on the > way out and thus (being realistic) won't get as much time dedicated to > it). So it's not just a five or ten minute job!] > > Col The force be with you, it will ! -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 17:57 did gyre and gimble: > 2012/3/6 Colin Guthrie : >> 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 16:56 did gyre and gimble: >>> 2012/3/6 Frank Griffin : On 03/06/2012 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > > If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support in > case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a > black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of > messages > instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution > (or > given instructions to provide more information)? Probably a better solution, if you know that X is supposed to come up but isn't, is to automatically log him in as some new ID whose shell is a script something like the rescue console script. The first thing it does is su him to prompt for the root password, and then presents a character-based dialog explaining his options, offering to run XFdrake, maybe running rpm/urpmi to see if all needed packages are installed, and giving him to option to exit to a real shell if he wants. >>> >>> Yes, that would be the next step on the road to user-friendly desaster >>> management. >> >> Well, that's my whole point!!! >> >>> As long as we do not have this a login prompt is better than nothing. >> >> So I should spend my time doing this, only to undo it later for a >> different solution? >> >> I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to waste time on this until it's decided >> that this is the all we're going to do and what we'll ship. >> >> As far as things stand I see it as tangential to what I'd like to >> achieve so I'd rather spend what limited time I have working on that >> than something that could ultimately be thrown away later. > > Ah, ok, I understand your point now. > The big question is: What is the time span we are talking about here? > A week, month? Would you think you can achieve this better solution > until Mageia 2 RC? Perhaps by beta2, but more likely by RC. I'll certainly make sure that for beta2 a minimal install will properly present itself with multi-user.target by default such that a getty will be shown on tty1 (as already outlined, the getty on tty1 is only suppressed when there is supposed to be a graphical login - and only a problem when that fails!). > If so, I am totally ok with that. If you think it > will take longer than that, I do not think we can let this issue leave > hanging in the air when we approach Mageia 2 final, wasted work or > not. Yeah. I would agree there has to be a limit. I'd say RC2 should be that limit. If I've not found a better way of doing things by then, I'll do whatever is needed to make a getty appear... [Just to explain further, displaying a tty on failure is tricky due to the complex interplay of different and conflicting configurations. I *could* just run agetty manually at the end of the /etc/X11/prefdm script, but then this then this would be considered by systemd as being part of the prefdm service and thus if you login and restart prefdm (which might be common) it would first of all kill the getty itself as part of the "stopping" procedure! Now if it fails the user would be dumped back at a login prompt again... not really very user friendly! Hence, to solve this properly it would really be a matter of changing the current target (aka runlevel) from default.target (which will be an alias for graphical.target) to multi-user.target, but this may have other consequences. I think this latter solution (changing target) is the correct solution, but it really needs to be played out and tested thoroughly. I'm also not sure what consequences there are (if any) of running a command to change the target while running a specific service. I think all will be fine, but all the same I'd need to investigate. And after all that of course, we're supposed to still support sysvinit too so we I'll have to at least look into things mostly working there (I won't aim for sysvinit to be fully quirk free as it is clearly on the way out and thus (being realistic) won't get as much time dedicated to it). So it's not just a five or ten minute job!] Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Colin Guthrie : > 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 16:56 did gyre and gimble: >> 2012/3/6 Frank Griffin : >>> On 03/06/2012 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support in case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of messages instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution (or given instructions to provide more information)? >>> >>> >>> Probably a better solution, if you know that X is supposed to come up but >>> isn't, is to automatically log him in as some new ID whose shell is a script >>> something like the rescue console script. The first thing it does is su him >>> to prompt for the root password, and then presents a character-based dialog >>> explaining his options, offering to run XFdrake, maybe running rpm/urpmi to >>> see if all needed packages are installed, and giving him to option to exit >>> to a real shell if he wants. >> >> Yes, that would be the next step on the road to user-friendly desaster >> management. > > Well, that's my whole point!!! > >> As long as we do not have this a login prompt is better than nothing. > > So I should spend my time doing this, only to undo it later for a > different solution? > > I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to waste time on this until it's decided > that this is the all we're going to do and what we'll ship. > > As far as things stand I see it as tangential to what I'd like to > achieve so I'd rather spend what limited time I have working on that > than something that could ultimately be thrown away later. Ah, ok, I understand your point now. The big question is: What is the time span we are talking about here? A week, month? Would you think you can achieve this better solution until Mageia 2 RC? If so, I am totally ok with that. If you think it will take longer than that, I do not think we can let this issue leave hanging in the air when we approach Mageia 2 final, wasted work or not. -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 16:56 did gyre and gimble: > 2012/3/6 Frank Griffin : >> On 03/06/2012 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: >>> >>> If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support in >>> case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a >>> black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of messages >>> instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution (or >>> given instructions to provide more information)? >> >> >> Probably a better solution, if you know that X is supposed to come up but >> isn't, is to automatically log him in as some new ID whose shell is a script >> something like the rescue console script. The first thing it does is su him >> to prompt for the root password, and then presents a character-based dialog >> explaining his options, offering to run XFdrake, maybe running rpm/urpmi to >> see if all needed packages are installed, and giving him to option to exit >> to a real shell if he wants. > > Yes, that would be the next step on the road to user-friendly desaster > management. Well, that's my whole point!!! > As long as we do not have this a login prompt is better than nothing. So I should spend my time doing this, only to undo it later for a different solution? I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to waste time on this until it's decided that this is the all we're going to do and what we'll ship. As far as things stand I see it as tangential to what I'd like to achieve so I'd rather spend what limited time I have working on that than something that could ultimately be thrown away later. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Frank Griffin : > On 03/06/2012 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: >> >> If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support in >> case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a >> black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of messages >> instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution (or >> given instructions to provide more information)? > > > Probably a better solution, if you know that X is supposed to come up but > isn't, is to automatically log him in as some new ID whose shell is a script > something like the rescue console script. The first thing it does is su him > to prompt for the root password, and then presents a character-based dialog > explaining his options, offering to run XFdrake, maybe running rpm/urpmi to > see if all needed packages are installed, and giving him to option to exit > to a real shell if he wants. Yes, that would be the next step on the road to user-friendly desaster management. As long as we do not have this a login prompt is better than nothing. -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On 03/06/2012 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support in case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of messages instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution (or given instructions to provide more information)? Probably a better solution, if you know that X is supposed to come up but isn't, is to automatically log him in as some new ID whose shell is a script something like the rescue console script. The first thing it does is su him to prompt for the root password, and then presents a character-based dialog explaining his options, offering to run XFdrake, maybe running rpm/urpmi to see if all needed packages are installed, and giving him to option to exit to a real shell if he wants.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Colin Guthrie : > 'Twas brillig, and Johnny A. Solbu at 06/03/12 15:28 did gyre and gimble: >> On Tuesday 06 March 2012 14:52, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: >>> what I expect in any case, >>> be it an installation without X or a "normal" installation where >>> X fails to start, I expect to be dropped at a login prompt. >> >> Hear, hear. > > Please comment on the bug I linked to earlier then. > > I would have thought some better help and instructions would have been > better but if you guys all think dumping a novice user to a login prompt > is better then so be it. No, we guys all think dumping a novice user to a login prompt is far better than dumping him on a screen full of messages with no prompt or even a blackscreen. If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support in case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of messages instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution (or given instructions to provide more information)? -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Johnny A. Solbu at 06/03/12 15:28 did gyre and gimble: > On Tuesday 06 March 2012 14:52, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: >> what I expect in any case, >> be it an installation without X or a "normal" installation where >> X fails to start, I expect to be dropped at a login prompt. > > Hear, hear. Please comment on the bug I linked to earlier then. I would have thought some better help and instructions would have been better but if you guys all think dumping a novice user to a login prompt is better then so be it. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On Tuesday 06 March 2012 14:52, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: > what I expect in any case, > be it an installation without X or a "normal" installation where > X fails to start, I expect to be dropped at a login prompt. Hear, hear. -- Johnny A. Solbu PGP key ID: 0xFA687324 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On 03/06/2012 09:53 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote:.. Sorry, I'm clearly not writing very eloquently today!! Dynamic getty's should work fine. I am using them here and even the initial message in this thread from Nanar said he also had it working (well his reply to m y response did). (Just to explain: this is configured in /etc/systemd/systemd-logind.conf. You should have NAutoVTs=6 (or have it commented out) to get autovt's working... If it's set to 0 it is disabled otherwise it should just work. See "man systemd-logind.conf" for details) So there is something on your system that is not working properly... Not sure why it wouldn't work, but as you say, pressing the key combos means you stay on the same desktop... if that is the case that would imply something is broken before the vt auto-activation - i.e. something in the key handling itself. I presume you are not using virtualbox or similar? In VB you have to use RightShift+ALT+Fn... Col No, it's a native system, and CTRL-ALT-Fn has always worked. I'll check out the files you mention; thanks for taking the time to explain.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Frank Griffin at 06/03/12 14:25 did gyre and gimble: > On 03/06/2012 09:10 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote: >> Sorry, I was unclear in my last email. I've not enabled the ability to >> start a second X+DM yet (it needs changes to the DM's themselves which >> I've not looked at - tho' it should be pretty simple) such that you >> can specify the vt to use when they are started. Then I'd need to >> adjust autovt to start a wrapper script that starts either getty or >> X+DM as appropriate. So this isn't in place yet, but I do still think >> it's the way forward. Should be possible to get it done I think. Col > > OK, so static gettys are gone, dynamic ones don't work yet, and X+DM > can't yet start if you CTRL-ALT-Fn, which says that the only unexpected > part of what I'm seeing is that CTRL-ALT-Fn stays with the current > desktop rather than going to a black screen ... Sorry, I'm clearly not writing very eloquently today!! Dynamic getty's should work fine. I am using them here and even the initial message in this thread from Nanar said he also had it working (well his reply to m y response did). (Just to explain: this is configured in /etc/systemd/systemd-logind.conf. You should have NAutoVTs=6 (or have it commented out) to get autovt's working... If it's set to 0 it is disabled otherwise it should just work. See "man systemd-logind.conf" for details) So there is something on your system that is not working properly... Not sure why it wouldn't work, but as you say, pressing the key combos means you stay on the same desktop... if that is the case that would imply something is broken before the vt auto-activation - i.e. something in the key handling itself. I presume you are not using virtualbox or similar? In VB you have to use RightShift+ALT+Fn... Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On 03/06/2012 09:10 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote: Sorry, I was unclear in my last email. I've not enabled the ability to start a second X+DM yet (it needs changes to the DM's themselves which I've not looked at - tho' it should be pretty simple) such that you can specify the vt to use when they are started. Then I'd need to adjust autovt to start a wrapper script that starts either getty or X+DM as appropriate. So this isn't in place yet, but I do still think it's the way forward. Should be possible to get it done I think. Col OK, so static gettys are gone, dynamic ones don't work yet, and X+DM can't yet start if you CTRL-ALT-Fn, which says that the only unexpected part of what I'm seeing is that CTRL-ALT-Fn stays with the current desktop rather than going to a black screen ...
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Frank Griffin at 06/03/12 13:56 did gyre and gimble: > On 03/06/2012 08:42 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote: >> If you are booting to graphical.target then some subset of the lower >> ttys would automatically start X+dm on that tty when you switch to it, >> but if you boot to multi-user.target it would show you getty. > > By "multi-user target" do you mean level 3 ? Yes. Sorry I tried to use both terms together most of the time (to get the terminology solidified in peoples minds) but I guess I missed one). >> Thus server installs would be no different to how they've been for >> years (which hopefully addresses most of the greybeard complaint) and >> for users who don't know what the heck a console login is, they will >> hopefully be presented with nice, user friendly login prompts. >> Everyone is a winner. >>> I'm seeing what Olivier is seeing (although this is a desktop system and >>> not a minimal system). In my primary desktop, I can hit CTRL-ALT-Fn for >>> n = 1 to 12, and I get no response at all. It just stays on the same >>> desktop. >> Not sure about that one. Smells like some other bug if it doesn't move. >> Has your keyboard got a special "fn" key that disables the function >> keys? Mine does. > > Mine does too (bloody Logitech), but Fn keys are enabled., so it's not > that. Is there perhaps something I don't have installed that enables > X+dm restart and autovt ? If autovt were not present or disabled, that > might explain why a second X+dm doesn't start (no available vt) ? Sorry, I was unclear in my last email. I've not enabled the ability to start a second X+DM yet (it needs changes to the DM's themselves which I've not looked at - tho' it should be pretty simple) such that you can specify the vt to use when they are started. Then I'd need to adjust autovt to start a wrapper script that starts either getty or X+DM as appropriate. So this isn't in place yet, but I do still think it's the way forward. Should be possible to get it done I think. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On 03/06/2012 08:42 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote: If you are booting to graphical.target then some subset of the lower ttys would automatically start X+dm on that tty when you switch to it, but if you boot to multi-user.target it would show you getty. By "multi-user target" do you mean level 3 ? Thus server installs would be no different to how they've been for years (which hopefully addresses most of the greybeard complaint) and for users who don't know what the heck a console login is, they will hopefully be presented with nice, user friendly login prompts. Everyone is a winner. I'm seeing what Olivier is seeing (although this is a desktop system and not a minimal system). In my primary desktop, I can hit CTRL-ALT-Fn for n = 1 to 12, and I get no response at all. It just stays on the same desktop. Not sure about that one. Smells like some other bug if it doesn't move. Has your keyboard got a special "fn" key that disables the function keys? Mine does. Mine does too (bloody Logitech), but Fn keys are enabled., so it's not that. Is there perhaps something I don't have installed that enables X+dm restart and autovt ? If autovt were not present or disabled, that might explain why a second X+dm doesn't start (no available vt) ?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Pascal Terjan : > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 13:23, Colin Guthrie wrote: >> 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: >>> * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: > Hi there, > > I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. > To setup server I do a minimum install: > - /boot on its own partition > - /var /tmp and swap on lvm > - select no packages categories but yes install doc > - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) > > At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) > and I were unable to reach any text terminal. No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? >>> >>> Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps >>> was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since >>> there is nothing on first console. >>> If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) >>> >>> Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X >>> terminal. >> >> They why are you booting to a graphical target? > > >From what I read, because that's what was done during installation > > prefdm shouldn't be there on installs without X > >> Check your /etc/systemd/system/default.target and if it's a symlink to >> runlevel5.target or graphical.target then this is your problem. >> >> You should instead symlink it to multi-user.target or runlevel3.target. >> >>> All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console and just having >>> "starting dm service" whereas I know it cannot start is really >>> confusing. >> >> Sorry not sure what you mean? > > When you install a new machine (without X) and boot it, you expect to > be given a login prompt This is one of the major points. I'm one of the greybeards who were fed F1 along with baby food but I can learn. But what I expect in any case, be it an installation without X or a "normal" installation where X fails to start, I expect to be dropped at a login prompt. -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Pascal Terjan at 06/03/12 13:34 did gyre and gimble: > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 13:23, Colin Guthrie wrote: >> 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: >>> * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: > Hi there, > > I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. > To setup server I do a minimum install: > - /boot on its own partition > - /var /tmp and swap on lvm > - select no packages categories but yes install doc > - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) > > At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) > and I were unable to reach any text terminal. No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? >>> >>> Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps >>> was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since >>> there is nothing on first console. >>> If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) >>> >>> Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X >>> terminal. >> >> They why are you booting to a graphical target? > >>From what I read, because that's what was done during installation > > prefdm shouldn't be there on installs without X Well both the service (part of systemd-units) and the script (part of initscripts) will certainly exist. And prefdm.service is a hard requirement of graphical.target (due to /lib/systemd/system/graphical.target.wants/display-manager.service symlink) [display-manager.service is in turn a symlink to prefdm.service - longer term it'll probably become the official name instead of prefdm] The thing is that the default.target symlink should change between multi-user.target and graphical.target (or runlevel3.target and runlevel5.target which are compatibility symlinks for the newer, more descriptive names). This symlink structure is equiv to the line in inittab: id:5:initdefault: where 5 or 3 are the typical values. > When you install a new machine (without X) and boot it, you expect to > be given a login prompt I would agree. In that case the code should ensure that multi-user.target or runlevel3.target is used. We need to check what the inittab file says too. The drakx code that deals with runlevels should keep the default.target symlink and inittab file in sync. If a fresh install like this includes an initab with 5, then that's a problem. Or perhaps we just need to create a default.target in the %post of systemd-units if it doesn't exist and default it to whatever inittab says? I'm pretty sure the installer code should take care of creating this symlink tho' will try and double check with a clean install in a VM. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Frank Griffin at 06/03/12 13:33 did gyre and gimble: > There has been a lot of discussion about this, and I'd just like some > clarification of how the folks implementing thought it was supposed to > turn out. > > My understanding was that the DM was to start on tty1, and some lower > subset of the ttys, say 2-6 or 7, was supposed to be reserved for > alternate graphical logins, but that console (getty) ttys would still be > available on the higher ttys. Maybe not as easy to find, but more > consistent with current usage. This would still be my preference, but critically it would depend on the current target. If you are booting to graphical.target then some subset of the lower ttys would automatically start X+dm on that tty when you switch to it, but if you boot to multi-user.target it would show you getty. Thus server installs would be no different to how they've been for years (which hopefully addresses most of the greybeard complaint) and for users who don't know what the heck a console login is, they will hopefully be presented with nice, user friendly login prompts. Everyone is a winner. > I'm seeing what Olivier is seeing (although this is a desktop system and > not a minimal system). In my primary desktop, I can hit CTRL-ALT-Fn for > n = 1 to 12, and I get no response at all. It just stays on the same > desktop. Not sure about that one. Smells like some other bug if it doesn't move. Has your keyboard got a special "fn" key that disables the function keys? Mine does. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: >> No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? > > Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps > was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since > there is nothing on first console. Just to expand on this point. getty's are started on demand these days. It's done by autovt@.service. If you want to configure static gettys then you can do so easily enough (just symlink /lib/systemd/system/getty*.service as /etc/systemd/systemd/multi-user.target.wants/getty@tty2.service to get a static getty on tty2. But if your system is typically a graphical system, then why bother stating it statically and have it running all the time using resources. Auto-activation seems fine as a default setup to me. Now, the problem you seemed to get was that no dm was installed and thus the /etc/X11/prefdm script reached the end. IMO we very much DO want to have something done at the end of this script to give the user some help. This might include stopping prefdm.service via systemd and starting the tty, or perhaps better, showing some specific help (either text, or via plymouth or similar). This is something that I've suggested in a bug, but no feedback on that idea yet: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4750 Please do add comments on that bug. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 13:23, Colin Guthrie wrote: > 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: >> * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: >>> 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: Hi there, I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. To setup server I do a minimum install: - /boot on its own partition - /var /tmp and swap on lvm - select no packages categories but yes install doc - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) and I were unable to reach any text terminal. >>> >>> No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? >> >> Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps >> was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since >> there is nothing on first console. >> >>> >>> If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 >>> getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other >>> tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) >> >> Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X >> terminal. > > They why are you booting to a graphical target? >From what I read, because that's what was done during installation prefdm shouldn't be there on installs without X > Check your /etc/systemd/system/default.target and if it's a symlink to > runlevel5.target or graphical.target then this is your problem. > > You should instead symlink it to multi-user.target or runlevel3.target. > >> All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console and just having >> "starting dm service" whereas I know it cannot start is really >> confusing. > > Sorry not sure what you mean? When you install a new machine (without X) and boot it, you expect to be given a login prompt
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On 03/06/2012 08:23 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: Hi there, I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. To setup server I do a minimum install: - /boot on its own partition - /var /tmp and swap on lvm - select no packages categories but yes install doc - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) and I were unable to reach any text terminal. No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since there is nothing on first console. There has been a lot of discussion about this, and I'd just like some clarification of how the folks implementing thought it was supposed to turn out. My understanding was that the DM was to start on tty1, and some lower subset of the ttys, say 2-6 or 7, was supposed to be reserved for alternate graphical logins, but that console (getty) ttys would still be available on the higher ttys. Maybe not as easy to find, but more consistent with current usage. I'm seeing what Olivier is seeing (although this is a desktop system and not a minimal system). In my primary desktop, I can hit CTRL-ALT-Fn for n = 1 to 12, and I get no response at all. It just stays on the same desktop. Bug or feature ?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
> What is even more confusing currently is that switching to tty2, logging > in as root and running 'systemctl restart prefdm.service' restarts the > dm back on tty7 anyway :/ No it doesn't. It starts it on the next available vt. If you login on tty2 and have switched to all ttys from 3-6 (and thus triggered the starting of a getty), then 7 will be the next available one and it will start there. If you do not switch to 3-6, then it will start on vt3. You can reserve the gettys by symlinking getty@.service to getty@tty[2-6].service in /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.want/ folder if you really want static gettys started at boot. I'd prefer not to bother running them unless I need them which is the default setup. As mentioned already prefdm.service has a specific conflict with getty@tty1.service. This is why that static config is not loaded when booting to graphical.target. Now I'm not sure on the logic inside the Xserver that is used to search for a free getty. it maybe starts from the current one and counts up. If so, this logic should (IMO) be changed to start searching from 1 that way it would relatively consistently start on vt1 even when restarted from tty2. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 12:38 did gyre and gimble: > * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: >> 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: >>> Hi there, >>> >>> I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. >>> To setup server I do a minimum install: >>> - /boot on its own partition >>> - /var /tmp and swap on lvm >>> - select no packages categories but yes install doc >>> - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) >>> >>> At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) >>> and I were unable to reach any text terminal. >> >> No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? > > Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps > was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since > there is nothing on first console. > >> >> If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 >> getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other >> tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) > > Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X > terminal. They why are you booting to a graphical target? Check your /etc/systemd/system/default.target and if it's a symlink to runlevel5.target or graphical.target then this is your problem. You should instead symlink it to multi-user.target or runlevel3.target. > All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console and just having > "starting dm service" whereas I know it cannot start is really > confusing. Sorry not sure what you mean? > Cannot prefdm/X11/whatever be started on 7nd console like during the > years 90th ? :) Sure, just copy prefdm.service to /etc/systemd/system and edit it to not have a "Conflicts: getty@tty1.service" and then configure whatever dm you have to start on vt7 (usually a matter of configuring which args are passed to the X11 it starts. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Barry Jackson : > On 06/03/12 12:46, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: >> >> 2012/3/6 Olivier Thauvin: >>> >>> * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: > > Hi there, > > I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. > To setup server I do a minimum install: > - /boot on its own partition > - /var /tmp and swap on lvm > - select no packages categories but yes install doc > - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) > > At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) > and I were unable to reach any text terminal. No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? >>> >>> >>> Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps >>> was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since >>> there is nothing on first console. >>> If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) >>> >>> >>> Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X >>> terminal. >>> >>> All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console and just having >>> "starting dm service" whereas I know it cannot start is really >>> confusing. >>> >>> Cannot prefdm/X11/whatever be started on 7nd console like during the >>> years 90th ? :) >> >> >> Ah, back at that one again. We had a lengthy and lively debate about >> this not so long ago where exactly this scenario came up. Don't >> remember whether it was on this list or the -discuss list. >> > What is even more confusing currently is that switching to tty2, logging in > as root and running 'systemctl restart prefdm.service' restarts the dm back > on tty7 anyway :/ Yep, and I have one Cauldron installation working nicely but using Ctrl+Alt+F1 inside the X session brings me to the system start messages, while this should do nothing because X should reside on tty1. :) -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On 06/03/12 12:46, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: 2012/3/6 Olivier Thauvin: * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: Hi there, I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. To setup server I do a minimum install: - /boot on its own partition - /var /tmp and swap on lvm - select no packages categories but yes install doc - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) and I were unable to reach any text terminal. No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since there is nothing on first console. If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X terminal. All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console and just having "starting dm service" whereas I know it cannot start is really confusing. Cannot prefdm/X11/whatever be started on 7nd console like during the years 90th ? :) Ah, back at that one again. We had a lengthy and lively debate about this not so long ago where exactly this scenario came up. Don't remember whether it was on this list or the -discuss list. What is even more confusing currently is that switching to tty2, logging in as root and running 'systemctl restart prefdm.service' restarts the dm back on tty7 anyway :/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Johnny A. Solbu : > On Tuesday 06 March 2012 13:38, Olivier Thauvin wrote: >> All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console > > Besides, most guides on the net suggest using tty1 if X fail for some reason. Yes, that was also one of the arguments in the discussions. For those who missed it: discussion started here: https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2011-December/010533.html -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
On Tuesday 06 March 2012 13:38, Olivier Thauvin wrote: > All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console Besides, most guides on the net suggest using tty1 if X fail for some reason. -- Johnny A. Solbu PGP key ID: 0xFA687324 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
2012/3/6 Olivier Thauvin : > * Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: >> 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: >> > Hi there, >> > >> > I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. >> > To setup server I do a minimum install: >> > - /boot on its own partition >> > - /var /tmp and swap on lvm >> > - select no packages categories but yes install doc >> > - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) >> > >> > At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) >> > and I were unable to reach any text terminal. >> >> No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? > > Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps > was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since > there is nothing on first console. > >> >> If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 >> getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other >> tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) > > Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X > terminal. > > All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console and just having > "starting dm service" whereas I know it cannot start is really > confusing. > > Cannot prefdm/X11/whatever be started on 7nd console like during the > years 90th ? :) Ah, back at that one again. We had a lengthy and lively debate about this not so long ago where exactly this scenario came up. Don't remember whether it was on this list or the -discuss list. -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
* Colin Guthrie (mag...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: > 'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: > > Hi there, > > > > I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. > > To setup server I do a minimum install: > > - /boot on its own partition > > - /var /tmp and swap on lvm > > - select no packages categories but yes install doc > > - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) > > > > At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) > > and I were unable to reach any text terminal. > > No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? Indeed, alt + F2 show the login prompt. But before I pressed alt + F2 ps was not showing any "*getty" program, a bit confusing, especially since there is nothing on first console. > > If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 > getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other > tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) Maybe, but I never asked to have prefdm and in fact I don't want X terminal. All sys admin expect to have a tty on first console and just having "starting dm service" whereas I know it cannot start is really confusing. Cannot prefdm/X11/whatever be started on 7nd console like during the years 90th ? :) > > Col > > > -- > > Colin Guthrie > colin(at)mageia.org > http://colin.guthr.ie/ > > Day Job: > Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ > Open Source: > Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ > PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ > Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/ -- Olivier Thauvin CNRS - LATMOS ♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ pgpm5Vm45Xe40.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
'Twas brillig, and Olivier Thauvin at 06/03/12 09:24 did gyre and gimble: > Hi there, > > I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. > To setup server I do a minimum install: > - /boot on its own partition > - /var /tmp and swap on lvm > - select no packages categories but yes install doc > - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) > > At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) > and I were unable to reach any text terminal. No text terminal at all? Not on tty2 or 3? If you try and start dm (prefdm.service) then you will NOT get a tty1 getty (prefdm.service conflicts with getty@tty1.service), but all other tty's should be fine (handled by autovt@.service) Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
[Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console
Hi there, I just try to install a cauldron to setup a test IPv6 firewall/router. To setup server I do a minimum install: - /boot on its own partition - /var /tmp and swap on lvm - select no packages categories but yes install doc - no post configuration, so no X11 (hey it's a server) At boot the system started but stop to "starting display manager" (??) and I were unable to reach any text terminal. I can access to the computer using ssh, so I can extract log, information, etc... Regards. -- Olivier Thauvin CNRS - LATMOS ♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ pgpAzIgxO0djT.pgp Description: PGP signature
