Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
On Wednesday, 1 August 2012 05:29:55 fwang wrote: fwang fwang 3-21.mga3: + Revision: 277136 - obsolete db5.2 in favour of db5.3 Funda, Before you push a change like this, you should ensure you aren't going to break people's machines and make cauldron uninstallable. Regards, Buchan
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
On 3 August 2012 11:18, Buchan Milne bgmi...@zarb.org wrote: - obsolete db5.2 in favour of db5.3 Before you push a change like this, you should ensure you aren't going to break people's machines and make cauldron uninstallable. Well, when Funda did, there were only 2 remaining packages build against db-5.2: libreoffice evolution-exchange (precisely thanks to Funda's work!). That does NOT prevent cauldron to install at all. What's more, only evolution-exchange needs fixing now.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
On 1 August 2012 05:29, fwang buildsystem-dae...@mageia.org wrote: fwang fwang 3-21.mga3: + Revision: 277136 - obsolete db5.2 in favour of db5.3 # urpmi --auto-select --keep -vv --debug (...) installed libreoffice-core-3.6.0.1-1.mga3.x86_64 is conflicting because of unsatisfied libdb-5.2.so()(64bit) unselecting task-obsolete-3-21.mga3.noarch A requested package cannot be installed: task-obsolete-3-21.mga3.noarch (in order to keep libreoffice-core-3.6.0.1-1.mga3.x86_64) Continue installation anyway? (Y/n)
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
Le 01/08/2012 08:46, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : On 1 August 2012 05:29, fwang buildsystem-dae...@mageia.org wrote: fwang fwang 3-21.mga3: + Revision: 277136 - obsolete db5.2 in favour of db5.3 # urpmi --auto-select --keep -vv --debug (...) installed libreoffice-core-3.6.0.1-1.mga3.x86_64 is conflicting because of unsatisfied libdb-5.2.so()(64bit) unselecting task-obsolete-3-21.mga3.noarch A requested package cannot be installed: task-obsolete-3-21.mga3.noarch (in order to keep libreoffice-core-3.6.0.1-1.mga3.x86_64) Continue installation anyway? (Y/n) Whoever had the brilliant idea of forcing package uninstallation just because they are not supported anymore deserve a good spanking... Especially when applied to libraries, whereas shipping them in specific versioned subpackage 'libfication' was meant precisely to avoid this issue. -- BOFH excuse #344: Network failure - call NBC
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
Le 01/08/2012 09:31, Guillaume Rousse a écrit : Le 01/08/2012 08:46, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : On 1 August 2012 05:29, fwang buildsystem-dae...@mageia.org wrote: fwang fwang 3-21.mga3: + Revision: 277136 - obsolete db5.2 in favour of db5.3 # urpmi --auto-select --keep -vv --debug (...) installed libreoffice-core-3.6.0.1-1.mga3.x86_64 is conflicting because of unsatisfied libdb-5.2.so()(64bit) unselecting task-obsolete-3-21.mga3.noarch A requested package cannot be installed: task-obsolete-3-21.mga3.noarch (in order to keep libreoffice-core-3.6.0.1-1.mga3.x86_64) Continue installation anyway? (Y/n) Whoever had the brilliant idea of forcing package uninstallation just because they are not supported anymore deserve a good spanking... Especially when applied to libraries, whereas shipping them in specific versioned subpackage 'libfication' was meant precisely to avoid this issue. Morevoer, it's quite ridiculous to focus on removing obsoleted package from end users machines, without first cleaning our own infrastructure: db5.2 is still present in the subversion repository, for instance... So, removing a package from the distribution should imply: 1) removing it from the subversion repository 2) removing it from the master package tree (adding obsoletes tag in any package just for this is overkill) 3) eventually removing it from end user machines, provided this last step bring some added value (which is still unproven) -- BOFH excuse #47: Complete Transient Lockout
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
Guillaume Rousse guillomovi...@gmail.com writes: Morevoer, it's quite ridiculous to focus on removing obsoleted package from end users machines, without first cleaning our own infrastructure: db5.2 is still present in the subversion repository, for instance... IIRC, the obsoleted package are supposed to be removed on upload by youri. -- Olivier Blin - blino
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
Le 01/08/2012 15:19, Olivier Blin a écrit : Guillaume Rousse guillomovi...@gmail.com writes: Morevoer, it's quite ridiculous to focus on removing obsoleted package from end users machines, without first cleaning our own infrastructure: db5.2 is still present in the subversion repository, for instance... IIRC, the obsoleted package are supposed to be removed on upload by youri. They are only removed from the master package tree (task 2 in my list). What was originally supposed to be a side-effect of adding an obsoletes tag to a package (if foo is supposed to replace bar on end users machines, there is no reason to let bar exist on the mirror, and this will save an rm -f command to some sysadmin) is now largely perceived as the dedicated way to manage mirror content (in order to remove bar from mirrors, we have to obsoletes it somewhere). Which is a dangereous practice, as illustrated this morning. -- BOFH excuse #391: We already sent around a notice about that.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
On Wed, 1 Aug 2012, andre999 wrote: This last point reminds me of the obsoletes of openoffice put in the libreoffice spec, when there was no real conflicts and there were some differences. So a regression in libreoffice required me to install upstream libreoffice so I could install openoffice alongside, to work around the regressions when I needed to. So definitely no added value. These obsoletes are still there. Within mageia, libreoffice packages are supposed to replace old openoffice packages, so obsoletes are needed. The solution to the problem you describe is to make the obsoletes versioned so they only replace those old mga/mdv/mdk openoffice packages, not new ones. Christiaan
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
Le 01/08/2012 15:34, Christiaan Welvaart a écrit : On Wed, 1 Aug 2012, andre999 wrote: This last point reminds me of the obsoletes of openoffice put in the libreoffice spec, when there was no real conflicts and there were some differences. So a regression in libreoffice required me to install upstream libreoffice so I could install openoffice alongside, to work around the regressions when I needed to. So definitely no added value. These obsoletes are still there. Within mageia, libreoffice packages are supposed to replace old openoffice packages, so obsoletes are needed. Unless they are effective file conflict, and libreoffice can't be installed simultaneously, I see no actual reason to force its removal. -- BOFH excuse #195: We only support a 28000 bps connection.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
On 1 August 2012 15:43, Guillaume Rousse guillomovi...@gmail.com wrote: Within mageia, libreoffice packages are supposed to replace old openoffice packages, so obsoletes are needed. Unless they are effective file conflict, and libreoffice can't be installed simultaneously, I see no actual reason to force its removal. They do conflicts. We do not maintain it anymore. We do no want to have bugs reports about package Y on mgaX about packages that were obviously build by mga (yes but for mgaX-10). In that case, it's even worse, as it would have been a mdv package on mga after mdv-mga upgrade And anyway this is a different case than obsoleting a library (though I do understand Funda's move about libdb and his intents)
Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-obsolete-3-21.mga3
* Thierry Vignaud (thierry.vign...@gmail.com) wrote: On 1 August 2012 15:43, Guillaume Rousse guillomovi...@gmail.com wrote: Within mageia, libreoffice packages are supposed to replace old openoffice packages, so obsoletes are needed. Unless they are effective file conflict, and libreoffice can't be installed simultaneously, I see no actual reason to force its removal. They do conflicts. We do not maintain it anymore. We do no want to have bugs reports about package Y on mgaX about packages that were obviously build by mga (yes but for mgaX-10). Yes but: - it's up to packagers to point the package is not supported anymore (as it is not on mirrors) - the obsolete should be in the package that replace the previous one (the word 'replace' is important) - it is really a bad practice to choose for users what is good or not. Moreover there is a really bad effect: updating a system can cause to a package to removed because task-obsolete is installed. I am in favor to drop this package. Regards. -- Olivier Thauvin CNRS - LATMOS ♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ pgp61Ea2zSxOj.pgp Description: PGP signature
