[Mailman-Users] About outgoings

[nikos]

Hello list

Is there a way to know how many mails Mailman send to my members list
and how many are left to send?

Thank you
Nikos

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Change GID w/o recompiling?

[Adam Steer]

Ahhh SuSE. Jim's pointer [via Mark] is good: You should change
/etc/mailman.cgi-group by hand.

We had some issues with the changes 'sticking' past a SuSEconfig run,
but we also had some major group muckups. Once those were sorted, and we
actually had a proper group to match the gid, all was well.

>From SuSE's Mailman package docs:
---
Web and mail wrappers
=

With these two files:
/etc/mailman.cgi-group
/etc/mailman.mail-group

you can specify, which group id will mailman get from web (resp. mail)
server.
The values are preset for use with Apache web server and Sendmail MTA.
If you switch for example to Postfix MTA, fill in
/etc/mailman.mail-group
group handed over by this MTA (it is 65534 (nogroup) in SuSE Linux).


Nice to know we guessed right. Eventually we installed 2.1.5 by hand
over SuSE's RPM anyway, and set it right from the start.


Cheers

Adam


>>> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - 22/10/04 11:17 AM >>>
Mats Hulten wrote:
>
>I've been struggling with my setup of Mailman, and finally after many
hours I 
>got to the point where it actually responded via Apache. :)
>Only problem is that it responds with:

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SUMMARY Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[John Fleming]

>  couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be
>  enough
> >> to
>  trigger the blacklist?  - john
> >>>
> >>> No.
>
> Yes, actually.

The problem ISP is in Europe.  The challenged sender is using a dialup at
this time.  There are 2 probably related observations:

1.  He is being blocked by a domain in South America, cantv.net.  The bounce
message has a link to their abuse pages, and sure enough, his ISP's SMTP
server's domain is in the block list.  When he sends using his Outlook, this
domain appears in the headers and he bounces as if a spammer.  If he uses my
Squirrelmail, his sending domain doesn't appear in the headers, and his mail
goes through.  This is, of course, true whether we're talking about Mailman
list mail or not.

2.  When he sent to his list, all the AOL mails bounced.  Well, they didn't
actually bounce permanently - They we're "delayed".  I found them in my
Postfix queue, but by the next day, they were gone.  I haven't actually
confirmed that they were received by the AOL users, but I assume they were.
Apparently due to his domain's reports, his mail to AOL is "rate-limited".

He uses a commercial ISP, and I guess someone(s) have sent enough spam to
AOL and cantv to get his ISP's SMTP server domain "tagged" as a problem.

Thanks for all of the discussion - Being a newbie, I've learned a lot.
However, this really doesn't involve Mailman anymore, so let's close it up?
;-)   - John


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[texas critter]

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:22:21 +0200, Brad Knowles
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 10:07 PM -0500 2004-10-20, texas critter wrote:
> 
> >I also
> >  recommend that anyone with a dedicated server sign up for the feedback
> >  loop as well.
> 
> Unfortunately, that's only something you can do after-the-fact,
> at which point it may be too late.

hmm?  I'm not sure what you mean by "after the fact", I use the
feedback loop currently to keep me alerted to spam reports on mail
going out from my dedicated server to AOL.  AOLers who report list
mail as spam get unsubbed (per AOL's requirements).  By being
pro-active, it helps keep my server out of the AOL blocklists.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Chuq Von Rospach]

On Oct 21, 2004, at 6:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
blacklist.  Even though the list mail is finally coming from my 
server,
couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be 
enough
to
trigger the blacklist?  - john
No.
Yes, actually.
That's not quite right, I don't think, because if the sender uses
Squirrelmail on my server,
actually, if the received lines have a blacklisted IP in it anywhere in 
the chain, there's a good chance sites will block it. And yes, many of 
them will report back YOUR IP address (as the one doing delivery) as 
being blocked, even though they're blocking soemthing two or three hops 
prior.

I've seen some amazingly badly written and stupid spam blocking stuff 
out there. Much of which I write off as "hey, if your users are stupid 
enough to let you get away with throwing that stuff at their email, 
we'll, that's their problem". AOL is not immune to that kind of "your 
admins are on drugs, or need them" feeling.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I interface Mailman with Apache?

[Mark Sapiro]

Aaron The Young wrote:
>
>I seem to have mailman configured and built properly, but I'm
>wondering how to get it interfaced with apache.  It seems to have
>put itself in /usr/local/mailman and that's not where apache is.
>
>Do I need to rebuild it? or can I link it into Apache?  I'm not
>seeing anything obvious in the documentation.  I've not ever used
>mailman before, so I'm kinda lost.

Have you read section 4 of the INSTALL document that is in the top
level directory of the source distribution?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Brad Knowles]

At 12:04 PM -0400 2004-10-20, Mauricio Tavares wrote:
 Probably, the best way to do it is kinda like what you infered: install
 mailman in the webserver and then automount the data directories. I'll
 be playing with that and keep you all posted with my adventures.
	Automounter is a traditional area of much pain with NFS servers. 
If you need that functionality, "amd" may be a better choice.  My 
personal experience is that this sort of thing is a pain overall, and 
better avoided by using intelligent static mounts.

	Otherwise, with the other comments on this thread regarding 
Mailman's intelligent design for handling other typical NFS problem 
areas, it sounds like you may be reasonably safe.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Brad Knowles]

At 8:08 PM -0500 2004-10-21, texas critter wrote:
 hmm?  I'm not sure what you mean by "after the fact", I use the
 feedback loop currently to keep me alerted to spam reports on mail
 going out from my dedicated server to AOL.
	On a server you already own.  Try signing up for a feedback loop 
report for a machine at a provider where you are considering them for 
service, but you are not yet actually in possession of the machine.

That's what I meant by "after the fact".
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Change GID w/o recompiling?

[Mark Sapiro]

Mats Hulten wrote:
>
>I've been struggling with my setup of Mailman, and finally after many hours I 
>got to the point where it actually responded via Apache. :)
>Only problem is that it responds with:
>Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 8.
>
>A quick search rendered the information that Mailman must be run with the same 
>GID as Apache (in this case 8), and that there is nothing to be done but to 
>recompile and reinstall... :(
>
>Is that really true??? Apparantly this is one of the most common questions, so 
>the problem isn't exactly unique for me. Has there been no development as to 
>change the configuration so that you can change the GID Mailman runs as?
>Will this be a feture in future releases?
>
>And before you tell me to RTFM before installation, let me tell you that 
>Mailman was installed as part of the baseinstallation in Suse... ;)

Well, then it seems the problem in your case is Suse provided you with
a non-working installation. Shouldn't you be talking to them about
this?

OTOH, maybe
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-October/039977.html
will provide a hint.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[texas critter]

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:16:01 -0400 (EDT), MCV Webmaster
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> How do you sign up for the AOL feedback loop? Finding out after the fact
> is better than not knowing at all.

http://postmaster.info.aol.com/fbl/

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Mark Sapiro]

John Fleming wrote:

>> > I don't think so, Mark.  This is an "announce-only" list, and the sender
>is
>> > non-US, I think on a dialup.  Let's say the sender's IP or ISP is on the
>> > blacklist.  Even though the list mail is finally coming from my server,
>> > couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be enough
>to
>> > trigger the blacklist?  - john
>>
>> No.  The message from AOL is that the IP address of the mail server
>> your list is being sent from is blacklisted, not the sender of the
>> message.  If you're on shared hosting, not a dedicated server, you
>> need to talk to your webhost and find out if they're on AOL's feedback
>> loop and if they're actively nuking spammers.
>
>That's not quite right, I don't think, because if the sender uses
>Squirrelmail on my server, his messages are accepted at places where they
>are otherwise blocked.  Mine is a personal sever.  I am a newbie, but I'm
>using Postfix/Debian and it is not an open relay.  I personally have not had
>any problems being blocked anywhere, I've used dnsbl lookups and been OK,
>and have used available open-relay tests and been OK.  We only have problems
>when my non-US friend sends mail to the list (or to certain domains that
>apparently have him or his ISP blocked).  This sender is a "good guy" - a
>missionary that is only sending mail to his supporters - nothing
>unsolicited.  His only problems are with AOL and one non-US domain.  Thanks
>any other comments.  - john

It seems clear that the issue is with your friend or his ISP. When he
posts to your list directly and the post is resent to the list
members, the envelope sender and the Sender: and Errors-To: headers
are all (re-)written to point to the list-bounces address. Thus only
the From: and some Received: and possibly X-*: headers remain to
identify the original source of the message. Clearly, AOL and the one
other domain is looking at something there and deciding to block the
message.

Have you looked up his IP and others if any in the chain from him to
you in the various dnsbl lists (openrbl.org does multiple list lookups
with one query)?

When he posts via your Squirrelmail, is the From: address the same as
when he posts directly? If so, this would rule that out as the trigger.

As this thread has shown, these are difficult issues to resolve, but
your friend can go to the links in FAQ 3.42 and possibly find more
info or some relief. In the meantime, he can apparently do what he
needs to do using your Squirrelmail or get an address at any of a
number of free e-mail services to post from.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Brad Knowles]

At 12:17 AM +0100 2004-10-22, Richard Barrett wrote:
 1. handling of files containing messages queued for processing as they
 are moved along the chain of queues from initial delivery by the MTA
 to handoff to the outbound MTA and to the archiver. The code in
 $prefix/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py provides the enqueueing and
 dequeueing functions.
	That's fine once the message gets to Mailman.  This means that 
your MTA queues (and probably your user mailboxes, unless you use an 
NFS-friendly storage method for them as well) should be on local 
filesystems, however.  If the server goes down, you risk losing those 
messages which are in the MTA queue but haven't been delivered yet.

It appears to me that the operation of this code
 avoids dependence on file system locking during both file creation and
 deletion and is intentionally unaffected by a decision to use NFS mounts
 as the storage for Mailman's qfiles.
If Mailman does work this way, then this is very good news.
   The residual risk is of collisons
 in generating the file names of queued messages files using SHA digests
 but I think this is fairly small.
	Agreed.  Since we're not talking about crypto applications here, 
we could probably even use MD5 hashes reasonably safely without 
having to worry too much about the unlikely collisions.

 2. handling of files containing per list related data structures and
 productions of archiving processes. These operations are protected by
 a list locking scheme implemented using the code in
 $prefix/Mailman/LockFile.py The comments in this module suggest that
 specific efforts have been made to avoid deficiencies associated with
 NFS mounted file systems but there are cautionary notes such as
 ensuring that clocks on the systems concerned are adequately aligned.
	Also good news.  Also points out another known issue with NFS 
filesystems, and good server timesync is a very important issue that 
I am also involved with (see 
).  Indeed, it was 
my involvement with NTP that brought me to Mailman, since we were 
running our mailing lists at the time with Majordomo and I wanted to 
move to something that would be easier to manage.

 My own, non-expert conclusion is that
 a. Switchboard.py's code sidesteps any requirement for fine grain
 locking of individual message files when the are being queued and
 dequeued and this avoids deficiencies NFS might have in this respect.
That is a likely conclusion.
 b. The coarse grained locking used for protecting per list related
 data structures and archiving operations specifically addresses
 known deficiencies in NFS.
Also likely.
 It seems to me that your reservations are reasonable but it is clear
 that the authors of this part of Mailman (all smarter men than I) were
 conscious of the potential problems and have made efforts to avoid them.
	Barry (and the other Mailman developers) are most certainly not 
dummies, but I wasn't aware that this was an issue that they had 
specifically looked into carefully and make significant efforts to 
try to deal with.

This is very, very good news.
Thanks for the update!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Richard Barrett]

On 21 Oct 2004, at 20:43, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 7:08 PM +0100 2004-10-21, Richard Barrett wrote:
 I have been warned by experts that NFS locking could be a problem 
with
 this way of working but thus far it has not proven to be a problem.
	Locking is the bane of any administrator using NFS.  Nick Christenson 
wrote a seminal paper on how to build a scalable mail system using NFS 
as the message store (see 
).  It's hard to do 
the same kind of thing in an IMAP environment -- the only IMAP server 
I know of that uses Maildir (a storage format that is supposedly 
NFS-friendly) is Courier-IMAP, and it has some serious scalability 
issues.

For large-scale systems, this is a real PITA.
Brad
In the light of your comments I looked at what I believe are the 
primary file contention issues for Mailman:

1. handling of files containing messages queued for processing as they 
are moved along the chain of queues from initial delivery by the MTA to 
handoff to the outbound MTA and to the archiver. The code in 
$prefix/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py provides the enqueueing and 
dequeueing functions. It appears to me that the operation of this code 
avoids dependence on file system locking during both file creation and 
deletion and is intentionally unaffected by a decision to use NFS 
mounts as the storage for Mailman's qfiles. The residual risk is of 
collisons in generating the file names of queued messages files using 
SHA digests but I think this is fairly small.

2. handling of files containing per list related data structures and 
productions of archiving processes. These operations are protected by a 
list locking scheme implemented using the code in 
$prefix/Mailman/LockFile.py The comments in this module suggest that 
specific efforts have been made to avoid deficiencies associated with 
NFS mounted file systems but there are cautionary notes such as 
ensuring that clocks on the systems concerned are adequately aligned.

My own, non-expert conclusion is that
a. Switchboard.py's code sidesteps any requirement for fine grain 
locking of individual message files when the are being queued and 
dequeued and this avoids deficiencies NFS might have in this respect.

b. The coarse grained locking used for protecting per list related data 
structures and archiving operations specifically addresses known 
deficiencies in NFS.

It seems to me that your reservations are reasonable but it is clear 
that the authors of this part of Mailman (all smarter men than I) were 
conscious of the potential problems and have made efforts to avoid 
them. This may be why, after more than 3 years of operation of a 
moderately active server, with everything of Mailman but the mail and 
cgi wrappers on NFS mounted storage, a major disaster has not struck 
the system yet because of the use of NFS. Indeed, disaster has been 
avoided by being able, courtesy of NFS, to rapidly switch to a backup 
server with all data intact when the primary server died; but other 
people's circumstances may be different and my strategy is only good 
because we have a high reliability NFS server for storing Mailman's 
files.

Richard
 The only problems I have had with Linux and NFS is due to what I 
believe
 to be a kernel lock handling problem on Linux.
	Cross-platform NFS server/client environments are usually the worst 
possible thing you can do.  NFS appliance vendors like NetApp work 
very hard to make their products compatible with the broadest array of 
client OSes, and even they can't satisfy everyone.

	In my experience, this is the single most difficult/impossible 
problem to solve in an NFS environment.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Brad Knowles]

At 5:20 PM -0400 2004-10-21, John Dennis wrote:
 http://dovecot.org
	It uses mmap(), which is not safe on NFS.  This is why Cyrus 
can't be used on NFS.  This defeats the principle purpose of using 
Maildir.

	If you're going to do that, you might as well use either UW-IMAP 
or Cyrus, both of which are proven to be scalable (in different ways) 
to hundreds of thousands of users using local/SAN file storage, and 
the design I presented at LISA 2000 is designed to take a Cyrus-based 
system up to at least millions of users.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[John Dennis]

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 17:00, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 4:37 PM -0400 2004-10-21, John Dennis wrote:
> 
> >  FWIW, the dovecot IMAP server supports Maildir.
> 
>   Never heard of it.  Is it based on UW-IMAP, Courier-IMAP, or Cyrus?
> 
>   Those are the big three.  I don't know of any other IMAP server 
> that anyone is using in any kind of significant operation that isn't 
> at least based on one of these three systems.

I believe it was written from scratch, principal author is Timo
Sirainen, [EMAIL PROTECTED], info here:

http://dovecot.org

We (Red Hat) were looking for a replacement for UW-IMAP and beginning
about a year ago began shipping both Dovecot and Cyrus as potential
replacements for UW-IMAP. Dovecot is equivalent in ease of use
(configuration) as UW-IMAP and has a focus on security (think of it as
postfix's response to sendmail). Cyrus fills the need for an industrial
strength IMAP server in large organizations.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Brad Knowles]

At 4:37 PM -0400 2004-10-21, John Dennis wrote:
 FWIW, the dovecot IMAP server supports Maildir.
Never heard of it.  Is it based on UW-IMAP, Courier-IMAP, or Cyrus?
	Those are the big three.  I don't know of any other IMAP server 
that anyone is using in any kind of significant operation that isn't 
at least based on one of these three systems.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using domain name alias in "From"address for list

[Wally Hartshorn]

Ah! Okay, that sounds like the problem. Oh bother. Okay, sounds like I
have to bug the guys in the back room to fiddle with the DNS entry.
Thanks!

>>> Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/21/2004 2:46:05 PM >>>
At 2:10 PM -0500 2004-10-21, Wally Hartshorn wrote:

>  Everything looks about ready to go except that the address that
appears
>  in the "From" line from is the real name of the machine rather than
the
>  alias. In other words, the real machine name might be
>  uglyrealname.domain.com, which has a DNS alias of
>  prettyalias.domain.com.

When you say "alias" you mean this is done via a CNAME record,
right?

If so, then don't do that.  The RFCs specify that any CNAME found 
in a mail header has to be replaced with the canonical name that is 
referenced by the alias, which results in precisely the kind of 
problem you appear to be having.  Try replacing the CNAME record with 
an "A" record that refers to the same IP address.

>  Is there any way I can change that, either through a config setting
or
>  by modifying the Python code?

Nope.  This kind of thing is done at the MTA level, not within 
Mailman.  Moreover, while you might be able to configure your MTA to 
violate this rule, you can't do the same for all the other MTAs in 
the world, and once the name is changed the damage can't be un-done.

Change your DNS to remove the CNAME alias and replace that with 
an "A" record which references the same IP address, and you should be 
okay.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[John Dennis]

> the only IMAP server 
> I know of that uses Maildir (a storage format that is supposedly 
> NFS-friendly) is Courier-IMAP

FWIW, the dovecot IMAP server supports Maildir.
-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Brad Knowles]

At 6:59 AM -0700 2004-10-21, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
 But whenever AOL acts up for me and users complain, I always tell them
 the same thing -- to move to a competent ISP.
	I was telling people the same thing, even when I still worked 
there and before my attitude towards them soured with greater 
experience.

	They are a mass-market monstrous-scale service provider and the 
kinds of rules that apply to normal ISPs can't really be applied to 
them.  If you need the kinds of things that a normal ISP can/should 
be able to provide, then AOL is not the place to be.

 And they've done a horrible job of teaching their users how to use the
 system.
Yup.
  I finally got tired of constantly getting bogus spam reports
 and feeling like AOL was making me responsible for teaching their users
 how to use the system -- instead, I tell them to move to a competent
 ISP instead
	I've been trying to get my wife off AOL for years.  She used to 
complain that it had all her "favourites" and address book entries, 
and when I showed her how she could migrate them to another program, 
she said that people knew her by that address for years, and she 
couldn't afford to give it up.

	Some people, regardless of how intelligent they are, just won't 
move no matter how much you try to help them, or how much they would 
benefit by being somewhere else.

 I've given up trying to fix AOL's problems for them. They're just not
 worth the hassle to me any more.
	I tried very hard to fix AOL's problems during the time I worked 
there.  I got tired of carrying the whole company on my back, and 
that's the principle reason why I left.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Brad Knowles]

At 11:16 AM -0400 2004-10-21, MCV Webmaster wrote:
 How do you sign up for the AOL feedback loop? Finding out after the fact
 is better than not knowing at all.
	Read the FAQ entry that was referenced, which includes a link to 
the AOL page on this subject.  Or go to the web page that was 
referenced in the original error message, which also includes a link 
to the same page.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Brad Knowles]

At 7:08 PM +0100 2004-10-21, Richard Barrett wrote:
 I have been warned by experts that NFS locking could be a problem with
 this way of working but thus far it has not proven to be a problem.
	Locking is the bane of any administrator using NFS.  Nick 
Christenson wrote a seminal paper on how to build a scalable mail 
system using NFS as the message store (see 
).  It's hard to do 
the same kind of thing in an IMAP environment -- the only IMAP server 
I know of that uses Maildir (a storage format that is supposedly 
NFS-friendly) is Courier-IMAP, and it has some serious scalability 
issues.

For large-scale systems, this is a real PITA.
 The only problems I have had with Linux and NFS is due to what I believe
 to be a kernel lock handling problem on Linux.
	Cross-platform NFS server/client environments are usually the 
worst possible thing you can do.  NFS appliance vendors like NetApp 
work very hard to make their products compatible with the broadest 
array of client OSes, and even they can't satisfy everyone.

	In my experience, this is the single most difficult/impossible 
problem to solve in an NFS environment.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using domain name alias in "From" address for list

[Brad Knowles]

At 2:10 PM -0500 2004-10-21, Wally Hartshorn wrote:
 Everything looks about ready to go except that the address that appears
 in the "From" line from is the real name of the machine rather than the
 alias. In other words, the real machine name might be
 uglyrealname.domain.com, which has a DNS alias of
 prettyalias.domain.com.
When you say "alias" you mean this is done via a CNAME record, right?
	If so, then don't do that.  The RFCs specify that any CNAME found 
in a mail header has to be replaced with the canonical name that is 
referenced by the alias, which results in precisely the kind of 
problem you appear to be having.  Try replacing the CNAME record with 
an "A" record that refers to the same IP address.

 Is there any way I can change that, either through a config setting or
 by modifying the Python code?
	Nope.  This kind of thing is done at the MTA level, not within 
Mailman.  Moreover, while you might be able to configure your MTA to 
violate this rule, you can't do the same for all the other MTAs in 
the world, and once the name is changed the damage can't be un-done.

	Change your DNS to remove the CNAME alias and replace that with 
an "A" record which references the same IP address, and you should be 
okay.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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[Mailman-Users] Using domain name alias in "From" address for list

[Wally Hartshorn]

I'm setting up my first Mailman installation and have encountered a
small problem.
 
Everything looks about ready to go except that the address that appears
in the "From" line from is the real name of the machine rather than the
alias. In other words, the real machine name might be
uglyrealname.domain.com, which has a DNS alias of
prettyalias.domain.com. In all of the emails that get sent out (e.g.
subscription confirmation, welcome message, etc), Mailman is correctly
giving the address in the text of the email as something like
[EMAIL PROTECTED], but in the "From" line of the
email, it shows up as being from something like
[EMAIL PROTECTED] .
 
Is there any way I can change that, either through a config setting or
by modifying the Python code? (I'm a programmer, but I don't know
Python, so use small words that I'll understand.) Or is this something
that requires changing our Sendmail settings? (And if so, any hints in
that area would be VERY appreciated!)
 
Thanks,
Wally Hartshorn
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Richard Barrett]

On 20 Oct 2004, at 17:04, Mauricio Tavares wrote:
John Wheaton wrote:
Hello,
I am curious whether Mailman will work on Solaris, and how best to  
integrate it with our current web site. Our school maintains an  
informational website at www.stfrancishighschool.com, hosted by IgLou 
in  Louisville. We have been discussing with a few alumni the 
possibility of  creating mailing lists for the alums, and Mailman 
seems like a good  solution. We have also looked into Majordomo, 
which IgLou will administer  for additional monthly charges. We would 
like to save money.

Can Mailman be installed alongside our website? In other words, is it 
self  contained? Can its bin and lib files, for example, be installed 
in our web  directory, and still allow Mailman to function?
   What you are asking is exactly what I am planning on doing here.  
We have a mail server (Solaris 8 box) which is currently being used as 
mailman's website.  What we are going to do is to NFS mount the 
mailman directory in our webserver (a Solaris 9 box) so it can be 
accessed there. Probably, the best way to do it is kinda like what you 
infered: install mailman in the webserver and then automount the data 
directories. I'll be playing with that and keep you all posted with my 
adventures.

If it helps, I have been running Mailman on Linux from NFS mounts, with 
the actual storage on a high-reliability UNIX server, for over 3 years 
now. In my case it was to provide a more reliable service; I use a 
primary Mailman server and a warm standby secondary server which takes 
over the primary server's identity via some DHCP trickery if the 
primary fails. Worked well a week back when the the local SCSI drive on 
the primary server died. Switchover in a couple of minutes, no loss of 
service or data or access to data (mail and archives). Second time that 
drive failure has happened; once on each of the two machines.

I have been warned by experts that NFS locking could be a problem with 
this way of working but thus far it has not proven to be a problem.

I would like to achieve automatic failover and being able to load share 
would be great but that is a more serious challenge for a Mailman 
configuration and would test the NFS lock issues more strenuously.

The only problems I have had with Linux and NFS is due to what I 
believe to be a kernel lock handling problem on Linux. The only 
solution I found for this was to limit the transfer size used for the 
NFS mounts to 8k. I concluded that left to their own devices (no pun 
intended) the Linux NFS client negotiated too large a transfer size 
with the NFS server and then tripped over its own feet by releasing 
some internal kernel lock prematurely, which then caused a process to 
hang indefinitely (and also be unkillable; reboot being the only way to 
dispose of them) if they performed large data transfer to/from NFS 
mounts.

As an aside I am about to move these Mailmen from Linux on x86 to 
Solaris on Sparc having had no bad experience with another 
Solaris/Sparc installation I set up for another domain.

Our other possible solution is to host the mailing lists on one of 
our own  Linux servers, if the app cannot be installed on our host's 
server. Since  we run Exchange Server, I am trying to simplify 
matters by hosting the  mailing lists offsite, though.

Thanks for your help.
John Wheaton,
Technology Coordinator
St. Francis High School
233 W. Broadway
Louisville, KY 40202
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[Mailman-Users] hasan

[VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif)]

s


-
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
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[Mailman-Users] kkkkkkkkkkkk

[VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif)]

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] changing in the e-mail

[Mark Sapiro]

Abo Baker El-Fiky wrote:
>
>Is there any way that I can change the welcome e-mail the list send it
>automatic, 

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 4.48. The template for the welcome message is subscribeack.txt.


>And is there also anyway that I can stop my members from sending e-mails? 
>
>I mean I need only the admin to send e-mails nothing else not the members!


See FAQ 3.11. 


>And also I need to change the welcome e-mail which contain if you need to
>post a massage in this list please e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Above two FAQs cover this.

--
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderator log in?

[Mark Sapiro]

Donald A Green wrote:

>How does the moderator log into the admin function. I entered the 
>Moderator's email address and a password for moderators, but it isn't 
>obvious where they log in. Admin always asks for the Administrator.

Answered about 50 minutes before this repost. Answer at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-October/040207.html

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[MCV Webmaster]

How do you sign up for the AOL feedback loop? Finding out after the fact 
is better than not knowing at all.

Thanks,
Jeff D
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Mauricio Tavares]

John Wheaton wrote:
Hello,
I am curious whether Mailman will work on Solaris, and how best to  
integrate it with our current web site. Our school maintains an  
informational website at www.stfrancishighschool.com, hosted by IgLou 
in  Louisville. We have been discussing with a few alumni the 
possibility of  creating mailing lists for the alums, and Mailman 
seems like a good  solution. We have also looked into Majordomo, which 
IgLou will administer  for additional monthly charges. We would like 
to save money.

Can Mailman be installed alongside our website? In other words, is it 
self  contained? Can its bin and lib files, for example, be installed 
in our web  directory, and still allow Mailman to function?
   What you are asking is exactly what I am planning on doing here.  We 
have a mail server (Solaris 8 box) which is currently being used as 
mailman's website.  What we are going to do is to NFS mount the mailman 
directory in our webserver (a Solaris 9 box) so it can be accessed 
there. Probably, the best way to do it is kinda like what you infered: 
install mailman in the webserver and then automount the data 
directories. I'll be playing with that and keep you all posted with my 
adventures.

Our other possible solution is to host the mailing lists on one of our 
own  Linux servers, if the app cannot be installed on our host's 
server. Since  we run Exchange Server, I am trying to simplify matters 
by hosting the  mailing lists offsite, though.

Thanks for your help.
John Wheaton,
Technology Coordinator
St. Francis High School
233 W. Broadway
Louisville, KY 40202


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[Mailman-Users] Change GID w/o recompiling?

[Mats Hulten]

Hi there!

I've been struggling with my setup of Mailman, and finally after many hours I 
got to the point where it actually responded via Apache. :)
Only problem is that it responds with:
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 8.

A quick search rendered the information that Mailman must be run with the same 
GID as Apache (in this case 8), and that there is nothing to be done but to 
recompile and reinstall... :(

Is that really true??? Apparantly this is one of the most common questions, so 
the problem isn't exactly unique for me. Has there been no development as to 
change the configuration so that you can change the GID Mailman runs as?
Will this be a feture in future releases?

And before you tell me to RTFM before installation, let me tell you that 
Mailman was installed as part of the baseinstallation in Suse... ;)

Regards
Mats Hulten

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[Mailman-Users] How do I interface Mailman with Apache?

[Aaron The Young]

Hello,
I seem to have mailman configured and built properly, but I'm
wondering how to get it interfaced with apache.  It seems to have
put itself in /usr/local/mailman and that's not where apache is.
Do I need to rebuild it? or can I link it into Apache?  I'm not
seeing anything obvious in the documentation.  I've not ever used
mailman before, so I'm kinda lost.
Thanks,
Aaron
  ~
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server

[Mauricio Tavares]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
John Wheaton wrote:
 

I am curious whether Mailman will work on Solaris, and how best to  
integrate it with our current web site. Our school maintains an  
informational website at www.stfrancishighschool.com, hosted by IgLou in  
Louisville. We have been discussing with a few alumni the possibility of  
creating mailing lists for the alums, and Mailman seems like a good  
solution. We have also looked into Majordomo, which IgLou will administer  
for additional monthly charges. We would like to save money.

Can Mailman be installed alongside our website? In other words, is it self  
contained? Can its bin and lib files, for example, be installed in our web  
directory, and still allow Mailman to function?
   

Mailman can be installed under Solaris in your own virtual domain on
your web host, but it requires (probably root) access to the shell on
the server to do it and to integrate it with the web server and MTA on
the host. I.e. IgLou will probably have to do it for you and will
probably charge you for the installation and maybe for monthly use as
well.
To see what's involved in installing Mailman, go to
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/INSTALL?only_with_tag=Release_2_1_5&view=markup
 

   Adding to the mess, I am running mailman right now with postfix in a
Solaris 8 box.  Besides my own errors (I am working on that ;), I had no
problems getting it to work. I literally set it to do postfix (and
postfix to do it), typed ./config and off it went.  Compiler used was
gcc. So, if you need someone to harass, that much I may be able to help. =)
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[Mailman-Users] Moderator log in?

[Donald A Green]

How does the moderator log into the admin function. I entered the 
Moderator's email address and a password for moderators, but it isn't 
obvious where they log in. Admin always asks for the Administrator.

Thanks   ... Don
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Configuration back to to ascii config file?

[Mauricio Tavares]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
Mauricio Tavares wrote:
 

  Let's see if I make sense. I know I can create a mailing list config 
file as an ascii file and then feed it in (I forgot the name of the 
command so I am not going to worry about it) to the mailing list to 
create its binary config file.  When I go to the admin page, I can also 
change its settings. But, let's say I come up with really neat settings 
and would like to apply them to a few more mailing lists. Is there a way 
I can save the configuration of a given mailing list back to an ascii 
file so I can do any minor changes and feed it to the other lists?
   


 bin/config_list --help
It works in both directions.
 

   Thanks!  I did not know it could go both ways.  So, now happyness 
prevails. =)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: -1 cluster-admins moderator request(s) waiting

[Martin F Krafft]

also sprach Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004.10.19.1735 +0200]:
> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> 
> Article 3.38.

A collective apology for asking a FAQ. It wasn't really a problem,
I just reported it for your information. The time I saved went to
all of your expenses, which is inexcusable. Please forgive...

-- 
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Ph.D. Student   Department of Information Technology
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  University of Zurich
Tel: +41.(0)44.63-54323 Andreasstrasse 15, Office 2.18
http://ailab.ch/people/krafft   CH-8050 Zurich, Switzerland
 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Chuq Von Rospach]

On Oct 21, 2004, at 3:56 AM, John Fleming wrote:
are otherwise blocked.  Mine is a personal sever.  I am a newbie, but 
I'm
using Postfix/Debian and it is not an open relay.
AOL also blocks email from servers living in IP spaces known to be 
dialup or in the cable modem or home DSL ranges in many cases, because 
so much spam comes zombied home computers. Their position is you should 
be using your ISP's SMTP machines to send e-mail, not your personal 
machine, so if you're on a consumer DSL line or cable modem line, that 
could well be the cause of the blockage.

And frankly, these days, I think they have a point. It's one reason 
I've always run my home off of a SOHO line, not a personal line.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Chuq Von Rospach]

 But the same error message over multiple mailings for *all* AOL list
 members over a week or more would indicate that it is correct.
	Maybe.  Remember that I used to work there.
Brad's right here. I've dealt with this stuff and AOL enough to be able 
to confirm they don't always have their act together. it's gotten 
better over the last year or so, mostly, I think, because they're 
shedding subscribers at a huge pace and shrinking down to a size their 
infrastructure and staff can actually get  a handle on.

But whenever AOL acts up for me and users complain, I always tell them 
the same thing -- to move to a competent ISP. AOL's got a tough job, 
given their size and the sheer volume of spam that they have to fight 
off. but they've done a lousy job of dealing with it, and it's a job 
that badly impacts their users (and they don't tell their users what 
they do or give users a chance to evaluate their actions, unlike places 
like Earthlink). And they've done a horrible job of teaching their 
users how to use the system. I finally got tired of constantly getting 
bogus spam reports and feeling like AOL was making me responsible for 
teaching their users how to use the system -- instead, I tell them to 
move to a competent ISP instead

I've given up trying to fix AOL's problems for them. They're just not 
worth the hassle to me any more.

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[Mailman-Users] changing in the e-mail

[Abo Baker El-Fiky]

Hi there, 

 

Is there any way that I can change the welcome e-mail the list send it
automatic, 

And is there also anyway that I can stop my members from sending e-mails? 

I mean I need only the admin to send e-mails nothing else not the members!

 

And also I need to change the welcome e-mail which contain if you need to
post a massage in this list please e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

 

Abo Baker El-Fiky

Area Manager

Tahira Foods limited

West Midlands Office

Tel: 0845 00 93 918

Fax: 0871 433 9682

Mob: 0777 33 278 27

 

==

THIS E-MAIL MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR PRIVILEGED INFORMATION.

It is only intended for the use of the addressee. If you are not the

addressee, the disclosure, copying or delivering of this to anyone

else is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you receive this

e-mail by mistake, please notify us immediately by e-mail or by

telephone on +44 (0)7773 327 827.

 

http://www.tahira.co.uk

==

 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[John Fleming]

> > I don't think so, Mark.  This is an "announce-only" list, and the sender
is
> > non-US, I think on a dialup.  Let's say the sender's IP or ISP is on the
> > blacklist.  Even though the list mail is finally coming from my server,
> > couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be enough
to
> > trigger the blacklist?  - john
>
> No.  The message from AOL is that the IP address of the mail server
> your list is being sent from is blacklisted, not the sender of the
> message.  If you're on shared hosting, not a dedicated server, you
> need to talk to your webhost and find out if they're on AOL's feedback
> loop and if they're actively nuking spammers.

That's not quite right, I don't think, because if the sender uses
Squirrelmail on my server, his messages are accepted at places where they
are otherwise blocked.  Mine is a personal sever.  I am a newbie, but I'm
using Postfix/Debian and it is not an open relay.  I personally have not had
any problems being blocked anywhere, I've used dnsbl lookups and been OK,
and have used available open-relay tests and been OK.  We only have problems
when my non-US friend sends mail to the list (or to certain domains that
apparently have him or his ISP blocked).  This sender is a "good guy" - a
missionary that is only sending mail to his supporters - nothing
unsolicited.  His only problems are with AOL and one non-US domain.  Thanks
any other comments.  - john

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread

[Brad Knowles]

At 10:07 PM -0500 2004-10-20, texas critter wrote:
 But the same error message over multiple mailings for *all* AOL list
 members over a week or more would indicate that it is correct.
Maybe.  Remember that I used to work there.
 With
 shared hosting, it's generally true, even of webhosts that don't want
 to host spammers, they often don't pay enough attention to their
 resellers' customers and will end up hosting spammers who get the
 server's IP address blacklisted.
That's certainly true enough.
 Absolutely!  And anyone who's looking to sign up with a webhost should
 find out their IP ranges and check them *before* signing up.
	To the degree that this is possible, yes.  One useful criteria in 
choosing a hosting provider would be whether or not they have signed 
up for the feedback loop service from AOL, and can give you a summary 
of recent reports.

   I also
 recommend that anyone with a dedicated server sign up for the feedback
 loop as well.
	Unfortunately, that's only something you can do after-the-fact, 
at which point it may be too late.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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