[Mailman-Users] old domain showing up

[Troy Richard]

I changed the domain on my mail list.  When I log into the admin site all
the links still show the old domain.  Anybody know what i need to do to
change this.

Thanks
Troy

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[Mailman-Users] Moderator ability to manager users

[Peter McCarroll]

I have a number of Mailman lists on my server.  I want to retain control
of the list configuration settings centrally (and not give out the
administrator password to others), but allow each list "owner" to moderate
and manage the subscriptions.  Mailman does not seem to allow for the
moderator to manage subscriptions, or for the subscription manager to not
be allowed to change the list configuration.  Any suggestions on how this
can be achieved?

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[Mailman-Users] mailman difficulties: OS X, create list bug

[Jason Miller]

Dear Mailman users,
I've been trying to get mailman 2.1.5 to work on my OS X (10.3.8, not 
server) machine for some time.  I have root access.  My postfix mail 
agent is working correctly (I can send email from my box and receive 
mail).  I've used Larry Stone's archive posting to guide my 
installation of mailman.   If anyone can tell me what I can do to get 
mailman up and running on my machine, I'd be most grateful.

I seem to be able to create new lists, but whenever I do, I get an 
error that looks like this:

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy 
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what 
happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Applications/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
main()
  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
process_request(doc, cgidata)
  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in 
process_request
sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in 
create
_update_maps()
  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in 
_update_maps
raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias 
/Applications/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not 
permitted)
I've checked the permissions on /Applications/mailman/data/aliases, and 
look for yourself (though I've deleted many bounce events that are in 
this directory):

drwxrwsr-x  18 root mailman612 25 Mar 08:42 .
drwxrwsrwx  23 mailman  mailman782 25 Mar 08:38 ..
-rw-r-   1 mailman  mailman 41 21 Mar 11:15 adm.pw
-rw-rw   1 mailman  mailman   6668 25 Mar 09:03 aliases
-rw-r-   1 mailman  mailman  16384 25 Mar 08:47 aliases.db
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman 10 14 Nov 15:42 
last_mailman_version
-rw-rw   1 mailman  mailman  4 24 Mar 14:50 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman  14110 25 Mar 08:42 sitelist.cfg
I've run the check_perms -f command several times.  I've run Disk 
Utility and repaired permissions once.  I've rerun check_perms -f a few 
more times.

Here's an excerpt from my system log.  The last two entries correspond 
to my  trying to send email to a list on my machine from my machine.

Mar 25 09:06:52 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8549]: fatal: accept connection: 
Socket operation on non-socket
Mar 25 09:07:36 pyrite sudo:  millerj : TTY=ttyp1 ; 
PWD=/Applications/mailman ; USER=root ; COMMAND=bin/check_perms -f
Mar 25 09:07:40 pyrite sudo:  millerj : TTY=ttyp1 ; 
PWD=/Applications/mailman ; USER=root ; COMMAND=bin/check_perms -f
Mar 25 09:09:41 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8557]: fatal: accept connection: 
Socket operation on non-socket
Mar 25 09:09:52 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8561]: fatal: accept connection: 
Socket operation on non-socket
Mar 25 09:10:00 pyrite CRON[8567]: (root) CMD (/usr/libexec/atrun)
Mar 25 09:10:00 pyrite CRON[8566]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
/Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news)
Mar 25 09:10:00 pyrite CRON[8565]: (root) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
/Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news)
Mar 25 09:10:03 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8568]: fatal: accept connection: 
Socket operation on non-socket
Mar 25 09:10:26 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8569]: fatal: accept connection: 
Socket operation on non-socket
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share or any pointers to 
good references on this problem.


Jason E. Miller, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics
Truman State University
Kirksville, MO
http://pyrite.truman.edu/~millerj/
660.785.7430
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman difficulties: OS X, create list bug

[Jason Miller]

Dan,
Thanks!  That seems to have taken care of the "bug" problem.
Jason
On Mar 25, 2005, at 9:25 AM, Dan Phillips wrote:
On Mar 25, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Jason Miller wrote:
-rw-r-   1 mailman  mailman  16384 25 Mar 08:47 aliases.db
alaises.db must be group writable. See 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp 
and chmod it to 660.

Dan


Jason E. Miller, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics
Truman State University
Kirksville, MO
http://pyrite.truman.edu/~millerj/
660.785.7430
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderator ability to manager users

[Brad Knowles]

At 9:25 AM -0800 2005-03-24, Peter McCarroll wrote:
 I have a number of Mailman lists on my server.  I want to retain control
 of the list configuration settings centrally (and not give out the
 administrator password to others), but allow each list "owner" to moderate
 and manage the subscriptions.
	Mailman doesn't work that way.  Moderators can approve, reject, 
or discard postings that have been held for them to look at, but 
that's about it.  If you want to do anything more, you need to be an 
Administrator.

	Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any alternatives to give you more 
fine-grained control over who can do what.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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[Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

[Ross Anderson]

   I've been struggling with a delivery error on mailman that I could 
use some help with. I'm using postfix w/ amavis-new and cyrus for local 
users. The trouble I'm having is when a local users have exceeded thier 
quota, the messages sent by mailman gets stuck in a  temporary delivery 
error. Does anyone have suggestions as to what I need to focus on? I've 
read cyrus, postfix, and mailman lists and haven't had much luck 
locating this error. Any suggestions appreciated. Conf files avail on 
request.

Ross
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Re: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 10:35, "Ross Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've been struggling with a delivery error on mailman that I could
> use some help with. I'm using postfix w/ amavis-new and cyrus for local
> users. The trouble I'm having is when a local users have exceeded thier
> quota, the messages sent by mailman gets stuck in a  temporary delivery
> error. Does anyone have suggestions as to what I need to focus on? I've
> read cyrus, postfix, and mailman lists and haven't had much luck
> locating this error. Any suggestions appreciated. Conf files avail on
> request.
>
Well, you're seeing basically reasonable behavior.  A site which imposes
quotas can either reject temporarily when a user is over quote, or reject
permanently the first time the message is offered.

The former assumes that users are reasonable, and will clear out their quota
problem fairly soon.  The latter assumes that users are ignoring their mail.

If you want to change the behavior, the Postfix configuration (about which I
know nothing) would be the place to look.  Interestingly, the O'Reilly book
"Postfix, The Definitive Guide" (my copy was printed in Dec 2003...first
edition) does not mention "quota" in its index.

  --John

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Re: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

[Brad Knowles]

At 11:00 AM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
Interestingly, the O'Reilly book
 "Postfix, The Definitive Guide" (my copy was printed in Dec 2003...first
 edition) does not mention "quota" in its index.
	That's because quotas like this don't actually have anything to 
do with postfix.  Any mailbox quotas that are applied come from the 
Local Delivery Agent, or the operating system and filtered up through 
through the LDA.

	From the LDA, these errors are filtered up through to postfix, 
which then issues either a permanent or a temporary error code to the 
sending machine, depending on how you have configured it to react to 
that kind of error from the LDA.

	So, when trying to debug problems like this, start with postfix, 
and follow through from there to the LDA.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

[Ross Anderson]

John W. Baxter wrote:
On 3/25/2005 10:35, "Ross Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

   I've been struggling with a delivery error on mailman that I could
use some help with. I'm using postfix w/ amavis-new and cyrus for local
users. The trouble I'm having is when a local users have exceeded thier
quota, the messages sent by mailman gets stuck in a  temporary delivery
error. Does anyone have suggestions as to what I need to focus on? I've
read cyrus, postfix, and mailman lists and haven't had much luck
locating this error. Any suggestions appreciated. Conf files avail on
request.
   

Well, you're seeing basically reasonable behavior.  A site which imposes
quotas can either reject temporarily when a user is over quote, or reject
permanently the first time the message is offered.
The former assumes that users are reasonable, and will clear out their quota
problem fairly soon.  The latter assumes that users are ignoring their mail.
If you want to change the behavior, the Postfix configuration (about which I
know nothing) would be the place to look.  Interestingly, the O'Reilly book
"Postfix, The Definitive Guide" (my copy was printed in Dec 2003...first
edition) does not mention "quota" in its index.
 --John
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Well the confusion I seem to be having here is cyrus-mailman related 
since it is the program handling local quota's. Cyrus bounces mail when 
single mail is recieved from local or outside mail accounts.  This odd 
behaviour only occurs with mailman which is why I'm a bit puzzled. I'd 
like to get the message bouncing back to mailman right away like it does 
with users that are not locally hosted.

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[Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Heather Madrone]

I've been using Mailman with exim on Mac OSX.  I started with
sendmail (because it comes with OSX and I'm somewhat familiar
with it), but soon got tired of having to wrestle it into submission
all the time and switched to exim.  I've been very pleased with exim's
performance and integration with Mailman.

The OSX setup, however, is only a stopgap while I get my permanent
server set up.  I've been looking for an open source operating system
that will run well on our Ultra 5 (sparc).  We were going with Debian,
which then announced that it's dropping sparc support, so we've switched
to OpenBSD.

The time has come to start seriously thinking about the MTA.  OpenBSD
comes with sendmail, but I'm not going down that road again.  I've heard
good things about postfix, but I've never used it.  It seems somewhat more
complex to set up than exim, and its integration with Mailman does not
seem to be as seamless.

My previous service provider used postfix, and we had recurrent problems
with Mailman's queues getting silently hung up.  A friend of mine who
runs a Mailman/postfix site also has the same problem.  I wrote a perl
script to check for this problem and restart Mailman's qrunner if necessary,
and my Mailman/exim installation hasn't had this problem once.  Is this
problem related to postfix or have I just been lucky?

Things I like about exim:

* Exim's ability to directly poke the Mailman installation and
determine legitimate delivery addresses.
* Exim's ability to handle VERP processing through the MTA
rather than having Mailman have to do it.
* Exim's fine degree of control of transient and permanent
delivery errors (by host, by address, by error type).
* Exim's informative logs.
* Ease of configuration and administration.
* Reliability.

I don't have a huge Mailman installation.  There's one main list with 300
subscribers that gets 50-200 messages a day.  There are two digest-only
lists with 100 and 500 subscribers that get 2-10 messages daily.  There
are a handful of other lists that get a few posts a month.  Everything's in
the same domain.

What are some reasons that I would consider postfix instead of exim?

-- 
Heather Madrone  ([EMAIL PROTECTED])  http://www.madrone.com

A rolling stone gathers no mass.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

[Brad Knowles]

At 1:46 PM -0600 2005-03-25, Ross Anderson wrote:
 Well the confusion I seem to be having here is cyrus-mailman related
 since it is the program handling local quota's. Cyrus bounces mail when
 single mail is recieved from local or outside mail accounts.
What LDA do you have configured for use with Cyrus?
   This
 odd behaviour only occurs with mailman which is why I'm a bit puzzled.
 I'd like to get the message bouncing back to mailman right away like
 it does with users that are not locally hosted.
	I think that this is a difference in the way that the LDA is 
called, or perhaps using different Cyrus-compatible LDAs.  At the 
very least, you need a lot more information about how your MTA is 
configured to talk to your LDA, and how your LDA is configured to 
handle certain situations.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Brad Knowles]

At 11:55 AM -0800 2005-03-25, Heather Madrone wrote:
 The OSX setup, however, is only a stopgap while I get my permanent
 server set up.  I've been looking for an open source operating system
 that will run well on our Ultra 5 (sparc).  We were going with Debian,
 which then announced that it's dropping sparc support, so we've switched
 to OpenBSD.
	In terms of providing good support for UltraSPARC, Solaris is 
going to be best, and I believe that Solaris 10 is freely available 
from Sun.  But that's not what I would consider an "open source" 
operating system.

	In terms of Open Source operating systems for UltraSPARC, NetBSD 
is probably going to be the best, with OpenBSD close behind (they 
split off from NetBSD not too long ago), and FreeBSD catching up very 
quickly.  There may be some Linux distributions which also support 
UltraSPARC, and they might have been decent in the past, but I think 
they're tending to drop it in the same way that Debian has done.

 The time has come to start seriously thinking about the MTA.  OpenBSD
 comes with sendmail, but I'm not going down that road again.  I've heard
 good things about postfix, but I've never used it.  It seems somewhat more
 complex to set up than exim, and its integration with Mailman does not
 seem to be as seamless.
	Postfix is a good MTA for use with mailing lists.  It does a lot 
of things out-of-the-box that you want in this kind of environment, 
and which take more work to do if you want to use sendmail instead. 
I have run large sites with both sendmail and postfix, and depending 
on what you're trying to do and how much care & feeding you're 
willing/able to give it, either sendmail or postfix should be 
perfectly suitable.

	I know a lot less about Exim, but it does seem to be reasonably 
capable, and I have spoken to the author of Exim a fair amount.  Phil 
Hazel is a good guy.  Based more on that than anything else, I 
consider Exim to be the only other MTA that I can recommend that 
people use.

	In terms of integration with Mailman, I think postfix is about as 
good as anything else I've seen, and the hacks to improve the 
integration with sendmail basically amount to lying to Mailman and 
instead telling it that it's using postfix.

 My previous service provider used postfix, and we had recurrent problems
 with Mailman's queues getting silently hung up.  A friend of mine who
 runs a Mailman/postfix site also has the same problem.
Hung up?  In what way?
 I wrote a perl
 script to check for this problem and restart Mailman's qrunner if necessary,
 and my Mailman/exim installation hasn't had this problem once.  Is this
 problem related to postfix or have I just been lucky?
	I've never heard of a problem like this being able to be 
attributed to postfix and not be generally applicable to other MTAs 
as well.

* Exim's ability to directly poke the Mailman installation and
determine legitimate delivery addresses.
	If you use the postfix integration scripts, then the aliases are 
automatically generated when you create and delete mailing lists, and 
this shouldn't be a problem.

* Exim's ability to handle VERP processing through the MTA
rather than having Mailman have to do it.
	Postfix has support for XVERP, and there have been patches posted 
which allow Mailman to take advantage of that.  I don't personally 
like that option, as I don't think it really saves you anything, and 
it certainly takes a lot of the control away from Mailman that I 
would normally want to maintain.  But if you want this, you can do it 
with postfix.

* Exim's fine degree of control of transient and permanent
delivery errors (by host, by address, by error type).
	I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.  Can you be 
more specific?  I know that postfix gives you a lot of control in 
these areas, but without knowing more about how Exim does them, it's 
hard to compare.

 	* Exim's informative logs.
	I've seen Exim's logs.  I was never able to make much of any 
sense out of them.  I've also seen postfix's logs, and they seem to 
me to be the model of readability and understandability.

Is there something in specific you don't like?
 	* Ease of configuration and administration.
	Postfix is the only MTA on the planet that can have a truly 
useful two-line configuration file.  Moreover, it has the most 
intelligible configuration file that I have ever seen.  Better still, 
it comes up "default secure", unlike every other MTA I've ever seen.

	I've seen Exim configuration files, and it's hard to tell what 
goes where, what is a router versus all the other ways that certain 
things could be handled, etc

	When looking at Exim and Mailman, there is a distinct issue that 
has to be kept in mind.  The instructions for integrating Mailman 
2.0.x are oriented exclusively towards Exim 3.x, and the instructions 
for integrating Mailman 2.1.x are orie

Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 13:08, "Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you've got Exim 3.x and you want to use Mailman 2.1.x,
> you're screwed.

Debian woody notwithstanding, no one should be installing and running Exim 3
these days.  There is essentially no one readily available (eg, on the
exim-users mailing list) who remembers much about it.

(After 10 years of reading Exim logs, and a few minutes reading Postfix
logs, I would reverse Brad's characterization (I don't know how configurable
Postfix's logging is...Exim can add or drop many aspects of the log
entries).  Actually, the Postfix logs look quite reasonable.)

  --John

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Heather Madrone]

Thanks for your detailed answer, Brad.  I appreciate your
opinion on this subject.  If Postfix will do a better job than
exim, I don't mind switching at all.

At 10:08 PM +0100 3/25/05, Brad Knowles wrote:
>   In terms of providing good support for UltraSPARC, Solaris is
>going to be best, and I believe that Solaris 10 is freely available
>from Sun.  But that's not what I would consider an "open source"
>operating system.

That's our fallback plan.

>   In terms of Open Source operating systems for UltraSPARC,
>NetBSD is probably going to be the best, with OpenBSD close behind
>(they split off from NetBSD not too long ago), and FreeBSD catching
>up very quickly.  There may be some Linux distributions which also
>support UltraSPARC, and they might have been decent in the past, but
>I think they're tending to drop it in the same way that Debian has
>done.

FreeBSD works great if you don't need a keyboard, a mouse, or a monitor.
Not an insurmountable problem for a server, but the FreeBSD hardware
support of the sparcs is a lot spottier than NetBSD or OpenBSD.  The
guy who started OpenBSD was responsible for the sparc ports for
NetBSD.

>> My previous service provider used postfix, and we had recurrent problems
>> with Mailman's queues getting silently hung up.  A friend of mine who
>> runs a Mailman/postfix site also has the same problem.
>
>   Hung up?  In what way?

All mailing lists on the server silently stop sending posts.  No errors in the
logs, no console messages, no nothing.  Qrunners still appear to be
functioning normally.  A mail loopback test diagnoses the problem and
restarting Mailman clears it.

As I said, I haven't been able to see this problem since I started running
my own server.  It was happening at least once a week before that.

>>  * Exim's ability to handle VERP processing through the MTA
>>  rather than having Mailman have to do it.
>
>   Postfix has support for XVERP, and there have been patches
>posted which allow Mailman to take advantage of that.  I don't
>personally like that option, as I don't think it really saves you
>anything, and it certainly takes a lot of the control away from
>Mailman that I would normally want to maintain.  But if you want
>this, you can do it with postfix.

With exim, trying to do VERP processing on the digest runs caused Mailman
to flood exim, even when I turned the number of sessions and connections
way down.  It also brought my poor Mac, which was not meant to be a server,
to its knees.  I'm hoping that the sparc will be able to handle peak loads more
gracefully than a Powerbook.

One of the reasons that I'm considering Postfix is that I wonder whether
it might be more efficient than exim.  I have a hunch that exim might do
more work than it needs to to get the job done.

>>  * Exim's fine degree of control of transient and permanent
>>  delivery errors (by host, by address, by error type).
>
>   I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.  Can you
>be more specific?  I know that postfix gives you a lot of control in
>these areas, but without knowing more about how Exim does them, it's
>hard to compare.

It's described in excruciating detail in section 32 of the exim specification.

http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.50/doc/html/spec.html

Basically, you can have a set of retry rules that go like this:

host (or regexp)error (or regexp)   retry strategy

the.host.name  rcpt_452   F,1h,10m
*  quotaF,4d,6h
*  *F,2h,20m; G,16h,1h,1.5; F,4d,6h

The first rule tells exim to retry rcpt_452 errors for host the.host.name every
ten minutes for an hour and then fail.  The second tells exim to retry all quota
overruns every six hours for four days.  The third rule says that all other 
errors
should be retried every 20 minutes for two hours, then at increasingly longer 
intervals
for the next 14 hours, then every six hours until 4 days have elapsed.

Okay, so it's not simple.  Easy enough to figure out, though, and it does give
you the ability to tune exim to deal with the kinds of errors that you run into.
It pains me to see endless retries of errors that aren't going to go away in 
minutes.

>>  * Ease of configuration and administration.
>
>   Postfix is the only MTA on the planet that can have a truly
>useful two-line configuration file.  Moreover, it has the most
>intelligible configuration file that I have ever seen.  Better
>still, it comes up "default secure", unlike every other MTA I've
>ever seen.
>
>   I've seen Exim configuration files, and it's hard to tell
>what goes where, what is a router versus all the other ways that
>certain things could be handled, etc

As I said, I've never tried Postfix, so my only point of comparison is
sendmail.  I am fairly confident that any MTA would look simple and
friendly next to sendmail.

>   When looking at Exim and Mailman, there is a disti

Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 14:25, "Heather Madrone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As I said, I've never tried Postfix, so my only point of comparison is
> sendmail.  I am fairly confident that any MTA would look simple and
> friendly next to sendmail.

You probably shouldn't say "any" in that context.  Exchange lurks out there.
(Not part of your universe, or ours, but it is out there.)

  --John

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Brad Knowles]

At 1:48 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
 Debian woody notwithstanding, no one should be installing and running Exim 3
 these days.  There is essentially no one readily available (eg, on the
 exim-users mailing list) who remembers much about it.
	Think someone who already has Exim 3 on their legacy machine, and 
wants to upgrade Mailman but not anything else.  You'd be surprised 
how many people out there are in this position.

 (After 10 years of reading Exim logs, and a few minutes reading Postfix
 logs, I would reverse Brad's characterization (I don't know how configurable
 Postfix's logging is...Exim can add or drop many aspects of the log
 entries).  Actually, the Postfix logs look quite reasonable.)
	Indeed, that's one of the aspects I find most confusing about 
Exim's log information.  Trying to help out this one site, I ended up 
having to turn on all possible logging in order to get some clue as 
to what was going on, because it was totally unclear as to which 
particular little fiddly bit I needed to tweak in order to see the 
information I needed.

	Log configuration is an area where I consider Exim to be the 
weakest.  Conversely, this is an area where I think postfix shines.

--
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 14:14, "Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>  Debian woody notwithstanding, no one should be installing and running Exim 3
>>  these days.  There is essentially no one readily available (eg, on the
>>  exim-users mailing list) who remembers much about it.
> 
> Think someone who already has Exim 3 on their legacy machine, and
> wants to upgrade Mailman but not anything else.  You'd be surprised
> how many people out there are in this position.

Very likely, they can't, taking that problem statement literally.  Because
very likely, they have an ancient Python as well, and Mailman won't run with
it.

And I have no way to help them.  I could probably manage to configure the
old Exim to work with the new Mailman, but I have no interest in doing so.

On the other hand, the Python adjustment (if one is careful on an ancient
RedHat installation, where much breaks if one removes Python 1.5.2, or
points the name python at anything newer) is easier than the Exim upgrade,
since there is a large canyon between Exim 3 and Exim 4.

It may very well be best to try switching such a setup to Postfix (where I
also can't help), if one has a Postfix guru available.  That should be about
the same magnitude of change as Exim 3 to Exim 4.

  --John

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Brad Knowles]

At 2:25 PM -0800 2005-03-25, Heather Madrone wrote:
 FreeBSD works great if you don't need a keyboard, a mouse, or a monitor.
	They are oriented towards the serial console at the moment, but 
I'm sure that the rest will come along.  I've got four UltraSPARC 10 
clones that I plan on using under FreeBSD (perhaps turning them into 
a small package build cluster), and I'll make myself a guinea pig.

 Not an insurmountable problem for a server, but the FreeBSD hardware
 support of the sparcs is a lot spottier than NetBSD or OpenBSD.
It's not as good for FreeBSD as it should be, no.
 All mailing lists on the server silently stop sending posts.  No 
errors in the
 logs, no console messages, no nothing.  Qrunners still appear to be
 functioning normally.  A mail loopback test diagnoses the problem and
 restarting Mailman clears it.
Huh.  Weird.  I've never heard of anything like that.
 With exim, trying to do VERP processing on the digest runs caused Mailman
 to flood exim, even when I turned the number of sessions and connections
 way down.  It also brought my poor Mac, which was not meant to be a server,
 to its knees.  I'm hoping that the sparc will be able to handle peak
 loads more gracefully than a Powerbook.
Depends on the powerbook, the UltraSPARC configuration, etc
	Generally speaking, for things like this, assuming you have 
enough RAM and network I/O capacity, the principal limiting factor 
becomes synchronous meta-data I/O.  Every time you create a file, 
delete a file, move a file from one directory to another, or rename a 
file, you're doing synchronous meta-data I/O.  This means that the 
entire directory has to be locked while the operation is taking place.

	Now, locking the entire directory, doing the operationg, and 
unlocking the entire directory, is something that usually happens 
pretty quickly.  However, try doing that thousands of times per 
second, and you run into very serious bottleneck issues.

	Of course, one thing an MTA does more than anything else is 
create lots and lots of little files, which don't live for very long.

	In this situation, *BSD with softupdates will be your best bet on 
the filesystem side.  The cool thing about softupdates is that it 
re-orders the disk I/O operations in a safe manner, and if the file 
is created and goes away quickly enough, then the I/O is never pushed 
to disk at all.

All the *BSD implementations should be capable of enabling softupdates.
	If you do end up having to go with Solaris, make sure that you 
enable filesystem logging.  It's not as good as softupdates (although 
Sun did buy the rights to softupdates from Kirk, and is incorporating 
them into a future version of Solaris), but filesystem logging is 
better than nothing.

	Note that Apple doesn't have anything like softupdates for MacOS 
X, although more recent versions have introduced a type of journaling 
for the filesystem.  Unfortunately, in this case it actually slows 
things down a bit, but it does improve robustness in a crash, so 
overall it's still a win.

 One of the reasons that I'm considering Postfix is that I wonder whether
 it might be more efficient than exim.  I have a hunch that exim might do
 more work than it needs to to get the job done.
	In all my testing, when it comes to the basic operations of a 
mail server, postfix has been the most efficient MTA that I've ever 
found.  I've tried very, very hard to push sendmail to be faster and 
more efficient, and I still believe that can be done, although I 
haven't managed it -- and I consider myself to be a specialist in 
this area.

	I haven't been able to do much testing with Exim towards this 
end.  However, Phil Hazel has said some very complimentary things 
about postfix in this regard, and I have a very hard time believing 
that Exim can compete.

 Okay, so it's not simple.  Easy enough to figure out, though, and it
 does give you the ability to tune exim to deal with the kinds of errors
 that you run into.  It pains me to see endless retries of errors that
 aren't going to go away in minutes.
	Postfix tries to be smarter about these sorts of things without 
requiring any kind of complex configuration.  It uses a bounded 
exponential backoff scheme, the same type of scheme that has been 
proven over time throughout TCP/IP, Ethernet, and other network 
protocols.

	Postfix does include some pretty advanced tools for diagnosing 
queueing problems (see ), 
and once you've identified any particular problem domains you can 
then create separate queues dedicated to them so that everything else 
is unaffected.  There's also some pretty extensive performance tuning 
tips at .

 How would you rate Postfix's efficiency?  Is it fast?  Does it limit
 network traffic to the necessary and keep its disk reads and writes
 down to a dull roar?
	Postfix is the fastest MTA I've ever tested.  It's smart about 
trying parallel

Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Brad Knowles]

At 4:02 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
 And I have no way to help them.  I could probably manage to configure the
 old Exim to work with the new Mailman, but I have no interest in doing so.
	Therein lies a big part of the problem.  If you're not willing to 
help, and the rest of the Exim community feels the same way, then the 
people who are in this situation are doomed unless they switch to 
other software.

 On the other hand, the Python adjustment (if one is careful on an ancient
 RedHat installation, where much breaks if one removes Python 1.5.2, or
 points the name python at anything newer) is easier than the Exim upgrade,
 since there is a large canyon between Exim 3 and Exim 4.
	This whole Exim 3/Exim 4 thing is not a problem with postfix. 
Don't get me wrong, postfix isn't perfect.  But what flaws it has 
tend to be less visible than this, and the issue of upgrading from 
one version to another usually has more to do with whether or not a 
binary package with the new version has yet been prepared, or whether 
they're willing to take the risk of going straight to the original 
source.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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FW: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

[Ross Anderson]

-Original Message-
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 2:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: John W. Baxter; Mailman Users; Ross Anderson
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

At 1:46 PM -0600 2005-03-25, Ross Anderson wrote:

>  Well the confusion I seem to be having here is cyrus-mailman related

> since it is the program handling local quota's. Cyrus bounces mail 
> when  single mail is recieved from local or outside mail accounts.

What LDA do you have configured for use with Cyrus?


I'm confused here with what you are referring to when you say local
delivery agent. Postfix is the MTP that delivers to cryus-imap via its
own lmtp "local" agent. I have attached the postfix .cf files below. 


>This  
> odd behaviour only occurs with mailman which is why I'm a bit puzzled.

> I'd like to get the message bouncing back to mailman right away like  
> it does with users that are not locally hosted.

I think that this is a difference in the way that the LDA is 
called, or perhaps using different Cyrus-compatible LDAs.  At the 
very least, you need a lot more information about how your MTA is 
configured to talk to your LDA, and how your LDA is configured to 
handle certain situations.





-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.



alias_database = hash:/etc/mail/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, 
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
biff = no
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
default_destination_concurrency_limit = 20
default_privs = mailman
local_destination_concurrency_limit = 2
local_recipient_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf, 
proxy:hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, 
$alias_maps
mailbox_transport = cyrus
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
maximal_backoff_time = 9000s
minimal_backoff_time = 4000s
mydestination = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf, $mydomain
myhostname = mail.owbn.org mynetworks_style = host myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases owner_request_special = no
proxy_read_maps = proxy:hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
queue_run_delay = 2000s
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.0.16-r1/readme
recipient_delimiter = +
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.0.16-r1/sample
sender_canonical_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-canonical.cf
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = postdrop
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,
check_client_access hash:/etc/mail/popip,
reject_unauth_destination,
reject_rhsbl_client blackhole.securitysage.com,
reject_rhsbl_sender blackhole.securitysage.com soft_bounce = no
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
unknown_virtual_alias_reject_code = 550 virtual_alias_domains =
/etc/postfix/virtual_domains virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf, 
proxy:hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
relay_destination_concurrency_limit = 50
relay_destination_recipient_limit = 100



###Master.cf
#

==
# service type  private unpriv  chroot  wakeup  maxproc command + args
#   (yes)   (yes)   (yes)   (never) (100)
#

==
smtp  inet  n   -   n   -   -   smtpd
-o cleanup_service_name=pre-cleanup
#smtpsinet  n   -   n   -   -   smtpd
#  -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
#submission inetn   -   n   -   -   smtpd
#  -o smtpd_enforce_tls=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
#628  inet  n   -   n   -   -   qmqpd
pickupfifo  n   -   n   60  1   pickup
-o cleanup_service_name=pre-cleanup
pre-cleanup  unix n -   n   -   0   cleanup
-o virtual_alias_maps=
-o canonical_maps=
-o sender_canonical_maps=
-o recipient_canonical_maps=
-o masquerade_domains=
qmgr  fifo  n   -   n   300 1   qmgr
#qmgr fifo  n   -   n   300 1   nqmgr
#tlsmgr   fifo  -   -   n   300 1   tlsmgr
rewrite   unix  -   -   n   -   -   trivial-rewrite
bounceunix  -   -   n   -   0   bounce
defer unix  -   -   n   -   0   bounce
flush unix  n   -   n   100

Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Jim Tittsler]

On Mar 26, 2005, at 10:12, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 4:02 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
 And I have no way to help them.  I could probably manage to 
configure the
 old Exim to work with the new Mailman, but I have no interest in 
doing so.
	Therein lies a big part of the problem.  If you're not willing to 
help, and the rest of the Exim community feels the same way, then the 
people who are in this situation are doomed unless they switch to 
other software.
I've not had any problem using Exim 3 with Mailman 2.1.  If there are 
some specific problems you are having, I'm willing to try to help.  
(But Exim 4's flexibility makes it a worthwhile upgrade. :-)

python.net uses Exim.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 16:37, "Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In this situation, *BSD with softupdates will be your best bet on
> the filesystem side.  The cool thing about softupdates is that it
> re-orders the disk I/O operations in a safe manner, and if the file
> is created and goes away quickly enough, then the I/O is never pushed
> to disk at all.
> 
> All the *BSD implementations should be capable of enabling softupdates.

That's all very well, but the reason that all those little files are created
and destroyed is that it isn't safe to hold the data in RAM, and once an MTA
has accepted a message, a mere power outage isn't supposed to cause it to
drop the message on the floor.  (There are even words in the mail RFCs about
it.)

Unless softupdates "sees" power outages and hustles the data onto disk
(which is probably feasible) it would not be considered MTA-suitable (and
Exim does what it can to prevent it, using whatever force to disk calls are
available to it).

  --John

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 17:12, "Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This whole Exim 3/Exim 4 thing is not a problem with postfix.
> Don't get me wrong, postfix isn't perfect.  But what flaws it has
> tend to be less visible than this, and the issue of upgrading from
> one version to another usually has more to do with whether or not a
> binary package with the new version has yet been prepared, or whether
> they're willing to take the risk of going straight to the original
> source.

Philip is very conscious of backwards compatibility, and very consciously
broke it in the Exim 3 to Exim 4 transition, because the old configuration
system and the old way of managing messages had been outgrown by reality.

There are several configuration defaults which are suboptimal in today's
world, but are not being changed because they would break backwards
compatibility.

Most Exim version upgrades are a matter of making the change, then deciding
what new features to use and adding them to the config (and perhaps removing
workarounds for feature lacks and bugs which have been fixed).

But at any rate, Exim 3 to ?? Is a very good opportunity to consider Postfix
rather than Exim 4 as the ??.  Mailman 2.x to 3.0 will likely present a
similar opportunity to look around at what else there is.  (The seemingly
never-ending lack of Majordomo 2 was what moved us to Mailman from
Majordomo.)

  --John

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Brad Knowles]

At 6:21 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
 Unless softupdates "sees" power outages and hustles the data onto disk
 (which is probably feasible) it would not be considered MTA-suitable (and
 Exim does what it can to prevent it, using whatever force to disk calls are
 available to it).
	The problem is that with modern disks not flushing cache data 
even when they're told to do so, it's virtually impossible to 
guarantee that the data is written before you've lost power.  You're 
completely at the mercy of the hardware, and modern caches these days 
are easily large enough to hold a large number of small files.

	The typical Linux method of using async mounts fairly frequently 
results in filesystem corruption which needs to be corrected with 
fsck, and that can take a long time with a large filesystem.  Yes, 
journaling can ameliorate that problem to a degree, but you still 
need to turn off the async mount if you want as much as they can give 
you in terms of "full protection".

	Softupdates makes sure that the filesystem on disk is always in a 
consistent state, and while a few files/messages may be lost in a 
power outage, the filesystem itself is okay and shouldn't ever need 
to fsck.  Given the modern world we live in and the realities we have 
to deal with, I think that's a pretty good trade-off.

--
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temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Brad Knowles]

At 6:31 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
 But at any rate, Exim 3 to ?? Is a very good opportunity to consider Postfix
 rather than Exim 4 as the ??.  Mailman 2.x to 3.0 will likely present a
 similar opportunity to look around at what else there is.
	I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes, 
the architectural changes internally are quite massive, but I see no 
reason that a "make upgrade" process shouldn't be able to read the 
old pickle format data and rewrite that into whatever the new format 
is.  I don't think that Mailman is as complex a program as either 
postfix or Exim, and I don't think the changes are going to be that 
painful.

	Of course, I wasn't around for the 2.0.x to 2.1.x conversion, so 
I can't speak for how this has worked in the past.

(The seemingly
 never-ending lack of Majordomo 2 was what moved us to Mailman from
 Majordomo.)
	What drove me to Mailman was not the lack of Majordomo2 per se, 
but was that there were so many additional things I had to add to the 
system to get it working the way I wanted, and adding Majorcool plus 
MHonArc to our existing Majordomo installation was likely to be about 
as painful as switching everything over to Mailman instead.

	Mailman is certainly not perfect, but I think it's a lot more 
scalable and certainly more easily managed than Majordomo, and that's 
good enough for me.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[Terry Allen]

	I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes, the
Hi again,
	Just out of interest, on Postfix, there is a simple option to 
upgrade a running system like so (as most here will know):

make
stop postfix
make upgrade
start postfix
	I have never had to upgrade Mailman, as I started out using 
it on 2.1.5 - is the upgrade procedure for Mailman anything like 
Postfix? It's been foolproof thus far for me, so I'm hoping it works 
as well on Mailman when the time comes.
--

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___
hEARd

Postal Address:
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[Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers

[Lynn Siprelle]

I am trying to move my heretofore working mailman installation from one 
server (FreeBSD/Sendmail) to another (RedHat/Exim). I can access my 
lists at my main url, but I get "Page not found" on the domains I host. 
The error  log says "premature end of script headers". None  of the 
lists have colliding names. Mailman is critical to my clients. I have 
been through the faq, the archives and the documentation. I've tried 
everything I could find that seemed applicable. help! Moving servers is 
bad enough without this crap!

Lynn
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers

[Terry Allen]

I am trying to move my heretofore working mailman installation from 
one server (FreeBSD/Sendmail) to another (RedHat/Exim). I can access 
my lists at my main url, but I get "Page not found" on the domains I 
host. The error  log says "premature end of script headers". None 
of the lists have colliding names. Mailman is critical to my 
clients. I have been through the faq, the archives and the 
documentation. I've tried everything I could find that seemed 
applicable. help! Moving servers is bad enough without this crap!

Lynn
Hi again,
	If the error is 'premature end of script headers', I would 
hazard a guess that the CGI is not being interpreted by the server 
correctly for Mailman, or it is being interpreted as a binary file 
rather than a text file for execution.
	I'd have a look at the mailman installation on the new server 
for cgi execution firstly
--

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___
hEARd

Postal Address:
hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd, Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
---
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
---
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Re: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers

[Lynn Siprelle]

On Mar 25, 2005, at 8:04 PM, Terry Allen wrote:
I am trying to move my heretofore working mailman installation from 
one server (FreeBSD/Sendmail) to another (RedHat/Exim). I can access 
my lists at my main url, but I get "Page not found" on the domains I 
host. The error  log says "premature end of script headers". None of 
the lists have colliding names. Mailman is critical to my clients. I 
have been through the faq, the archives and the documentation. I've 
tried everything I could find that seemed applicable. help! Moving 
servers is bad enough without this crap!

Lynn
Hi again,
	If the error is 'premature end of script headers', I would hazard a 
guess that the CGI is not being interpreted by the server correctly 
for Mailman, or it is being interpreted as a binary file rather than a 
text file for execution.
	I'd have a look at the mailman installation on the new server for cgi 
execution firstly
But why would it work on the main url but not the virtual ones? Here's 
what I mean.

This works:
http://lsiprelle.simpli.biz/mailman/listinfo
This doesn't:
http://www.democracyfororegon.com/mailman/listinfo
Same server, same mailman installation. The first one runs fine, the 
second one throws premature end of script headers.

Lynn
--
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http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers

[Mark Sapiro]

Lynn Siprelle wrote:
>
>But why would it work on the main url but not the virtual ones? Here's 
>what I mean.
>
>This works:
>http://lsiprelle.simpli.biz/mailman/listinfo
>
>This doesn't:
>http://www.democracyfororegon.com/mailman/listinfo
>
>Same server, same mailman installation. The first one runs fine, the 
>second one throws premature end of script headers.


What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
domain?

--
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 19:05, "Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 6:31 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
> 
>>  But at any rate, Exim 3 to ?? Is a very good opportunity to consider Postfix
>>  rather than Exim 4 as the ??.  Mailman 2.x to 3.0 will likely present a
>>  similar opportunity to look around at what else there is.
> 
> I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes,
> the architectural changes internally are quite massive, but I see no
> reason that a "make upgrade" process shouldn't be able to read the
> old pickle format data and rewrite that into whatever the new format
> is.  I don't think that Mailman is as complex a program as either
> postfix or Exim, and I don't think the changes are going to be that
> painful.
> 
> Of course, I wasn't around for the 2.0.x to 2.1.x conversion, so
> I can't speak for how this has worked in the past.
> 
>> (The seemingly
>>  never-ending lack of Majordomo 2 was what moved us to Mailman from
>>  Majordomo.)
> 
> What drove me to Mailman was not the lack of Majordomo2 per se,
> but was that there were so many additional things I had to add to the
> system to get it working the way I wanted, and adding Majorcool plus
> MHonArc to our existing Majordomo installation was likely to be about
> as painful as switching everything over to Mailman instead.
> 
> Mailman is certainly not perfect, but I think it's a lot more
> scalable and certainly more easily managed than Majordomo, and that's
> good enough for me.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MTAs

[John W. Baxter]

On 3/25/2005 19:32, "Terry Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes, the
> 
> Hi again,
> Just out of interest, on Postfix, there is a simple option to
> upgrade a running system like so (as most here will know):
> 
> make
> stop postfix
> make upgrade
> start postfix
> 
> I have never had to upgrade Mailman, as I started out using
> it on 2.1.5 - is the upgrade procedure for Mailman anything like
> Postfix? It's been foolproof thus far for me, so I'm hoping it works
> as well on Mailman when the time comes.

Well, it's basically that.  (The 2.0x to 2.1x jump for us involved a change
of servers, and server locations, and a huge jump in Linux version, so we
couldn't do the straighforward install the new over the old and turn it on.)

Unless one uses RedHat's RPMs...which will soon move things Mailman around
considerably.  

That's probably a good thing...having configuration mixed with code mixed
with data is not really a good idea.  RedHat's new arrangement looks a lot
better to me--I might well copy it even if I don't use the RPMs.  And even
with all the changes, the process will essentially involve copying the stuff
in $prefix/lists and $prefix/archives (and maybe something else) to the
right new places.

Having configuration *be* code, while a nice use of Python's capabilities,
also presents problems to those who believe that code and configuration
should be disjoint...RedHat has managed it without bending *too* much.

  --John

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Re: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers

[Lynn Siprelle]

This works:
http://lsiprelle.simpli.biz/mailman/listinfo
This doesn't:
http://www.democracyfororegon.com/mailman/listinfo
Same server, same mailman installation. The first one runs fine, the
second one throws premature end of script headers.

What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
domain?
Apache 1.3.33

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
	ServerName www.democracyfororegon.com
	ServerAlias www.democracyfororegon.com democracyfororegon.com
	ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
	DocumentRoot /home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html
	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ 
/home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html/cgi-bin/

UseCanonicalName OFF
User admin
Group admin
CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.bytes bytes
CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.log combined
ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.error.log
	
		Options +Includes -Indexes
		php_admin_flag engine ON
		php_admin_flag safe_mode OFF
		php_admin_value sendmail_path '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i -f 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
	


	#php_admin_value open_basedir 
/home/admin/:/tmp/:/var/www/:/usr/local/lib/php/:/etc/virtual/


Thanks.
Lynn
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers

[Lynn Siprelle]

I should also have added that I'm using the current beta.
What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
domain?
Apache 1.3.33

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
	ServerName www.democracyfororegon.com
	ServerAlias www.democracyfororegon.com democracyfororegon.com
	ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
	DocumentRoot /home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html
	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/  
/home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html/cgi-bin/

UseCanonicalName OFF
User admin
Group admin
CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.bytes bytes
CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.log combined
ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.error.log
	
		Options +Includes -Indexes
		php_admin_flag engine ON
		php_admin_flag safe_mode OFF
		php_admin_value sendmail_path '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i -f  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
	


	#php_admin_value open_basedir  
/home/admin/:/tmp/:/var/www/:/usr/local/lib/php/:/etc/virtual/


Thanks.
Lynn
--
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