Re: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists

[Brad Knowles]

At 10:46 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

>  Another question.  Most of the time VirginRunner is at max CPU,
>  sending address removal notifications.  I have already set the lists
>  to zero bounce notifications.  Is there a separate config item for
>  "you have been removed" messages?

If you split the lists into multiple sublists with a parent 
umbrella list, you should be able to significantly reduce Python 
"pickle" contention when trying to update the mailing list status for 
these removals.  You should be able to process multiple sublists in 
parallel, and you can tune the sublist size for the largest chunks 
which have relatively minimal contention.

For sites running really large lists but which have otherwise 
applied all the standard performance tuning things within the MTA, I 
think that this is probably one of the biggest additional performance 
enhancement that you can do for Mailman-hosted mailing lists.

>  One propety of these lists is that there is a high incidence of bad
>  addresses - the developer of the web front end refuses to do any kind
>  of validation before they are added to the mailman backend.

You might want to see if you can get that process improved.  If I 
didn't know better, it would sound to me like you might be running a 
spam house, and I would take a very dim view of that.  If you can 
reduce the amount of garbage going into your system, then you can 
greatly reduce the amount of garbage coming out, and the amount of 
time you spend processing that garbage.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special demographic lists...

[Brad Knowles]

At 12:48 PM -0500 2005-12-21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
>  above situation with ListProc:
>
>  I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
>  announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
>  script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
>  and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
>  exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
>  command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
>  sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
>  posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
>  flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
>  accidental re-use.

You could essentially do the same for Mailman, but keep in mind 
that it is written in Python, not Perl.  So, if you want to do all 
your interfacing into mailman in Perl, you're going to have to be 
calling a lot of Python-language programs via the shell interface.

As I see it, this subject kind of relates back to FAQ 3.18, in 
that you're trying to do something that MLMs were not really designed 
to do, and you should at least take a serious look at using a real 
CRM program instead of trying to kit-bash something together that 
kinda-semi-sorta works, most of the time -- IMO you'll spend more 
time (and therefore money) trying to maintain the jury-rigged 
kit-bash system than money you would spend on getting a real CRM.


I think Mark has probably given you a couple of other ideas, if 
you're bound and determined to keep trying to force this square peg 
into a round hole.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman watchdog - status report

[Brad Knowles]

At 1:02 PM -0800 2005-12-21, Con Wieland wrote:

>  I recently had some (more) problem's that Mark Shapiro helped me out
>  with. In that exchange I asked about a watchdog type program to help
>  in early problem detection. Mark  pointed me to:
>
>  Brad's "daily status report"
>    func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>

Wild.  I was sure that this was in the FAQ, but I guess not.

Anyway, I updated FAQ 1.30 on this topic.  You may be 
particularly interested to pay attention to the information on 
"munin", as well as the information on mmdsr.


BTW, the FAQ Wizard entries can be edited or created by anyone -- 
it's kind of like a "wiki" in that respect.  So long as you know the 
procedures (which are intentionally slightly vague), anyone can do 
it.  I know that I've probably touched about half the entries in the 
FAQ, and I've added quite a few, but there is a lot of good stuff in 
there from other people too.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists

[Brad Knowles]

At 5:40 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

>  I've got some questions on a mailman server that's currently
>  performing non-optimally.

If you've got a large list, the first thing you need to do is to 
search the FAQ and the archives for the words "performance" and 
"large".

>  1) Organization: the current setup is designed so that a post to the
>  list does not generate overwhelming amounts of traffic at once.  The
>  list owner posts to each list spaced out by a few hours.
>
>  Does a setup like this give any real benefit, or just cause headaches?
>  Should we consider cutting up the lists further?

One thing you could do is break the list up into multiple 
sub-lists, and then set up larger umbrella lists (whose only 
"subscribers" are the sub-lists).  This will help reduce contention 
for locking the Python "pickle" objects which are used to store the 
current status of the list.  This is likely to help improve your 
performance.

>  2) Recipient expansion: Currently, Mailman is running it's default
>  recipient expansion to postfix, which sends via SMTP.  Since the
>  postfix server only accepts mail locally, I have considered making
>  these changes:
>   a) Remove any recipient restrictions from postfix smtpd
>   b) Set Mailman to send a single message with all recipients
>   c) Set Postfix to limit outgoing messages to <20 recipients

In this case, "b" is not likely to help you that much.  Again, 
search the FAQ and archives for "performance" for the reasons.

>  The goal of this is two fold:
>   a) We have far more postfix expertise in-house than Mailman.
>  When there is an issue with Mailman, it's hard to solve.  We've got
>  more people capable of solving issues at the MTA level.

For a list this large, a lot of your performance issues are going 
to be a result of Mailman and not postfix, and there's just nothing 
you can do to get around that.  Trying to shoe-horn everything into a 
postfix problem is not going to solve your fundamental Mailman 
problems.

>   b) Postfix keeps logs for each outgoing message, giving us an
>  easy way to keep track of a message that is being sent.

Mailman logs data for each message, and the logging has gotten 
better with each new version -- 2.1.6 is better than 2.1.5, etc 
In your case, I would encourage you to look at the new 2.1.7-beta 
version, and consider giving feedback to Tokio and Mark, which may 
significantly improve the official 2.1.7-release version.

>  3) Comparison: Is anyone else running lists this large?  I've found
>  some list server usage surveys online, but most of them have "30,000
>  and above" as their largest class of addresses.

You have some of the largest lists I've heard of, but there may 
be larger ones out there.  Certainly, you would do well to check the 
FAQ and the archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists

[Mark Sapiro]

Ross Vandegrift wrote:
>
>Another question.  Most of the time VirginRunner is at max CPU,
>sending address removal notifications.  I have already set the lists
>to zero bounce notifications.  Is there a separate config item for
>"you have been removed" messages?

There's no config setting for this. Current code unconditionally
notifies the user who is removed by bounce.

Code in Mailman/Bouncer.py is

def sendNextNotification(self, member):
info = self.getBounceInfo(member)
if info is None:
return
reason = self.getDeliveryStatus(member)
if info.noticesleft <= 0:
# BAW: Remove them now, with a notification message
self.ApprovedDeleteMember(
member, 'disabled address',
admin_notif=self.bounce_notify_owner_on_removal,
userack=1)

If you change the last of these lines to

userack=0)

there will be no notice on any list. If you change the last of these
lines to

userack=None)

notification will be controlled per list by the list's send_goodbye_msg
setting on the General Options page.

If you make either of these changes, it would be good to change the
comment too.

BTW, I think you have a new record for list size. See
.

Also, WRT your other questions, there's not too much on this in the
FAQ, but searching the FAQ wizard
 for the words performance
and tuning will turn up what there is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists

[Ross Vandegrift]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 05:40:31PM -0500, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> The server has four lists of about 200,000 recipients each.  They are
> announce-only subscription lists that receive an occasional post.
> Despite being low traffic, we have some consistency issues.

Another question.  Most of the time VirginRunner is at max CPU,
sending address removal notifications.  I have already set the lists
to zero bounce notifications.  Is there a separate config item for
"you have been removed" messages?

One propety of these lists is that there is a high incidence of bad
addresses - the developer of the web front end refuses to do any kind
of validation before they are added to the mailman backend.

So most of the removals are destined for non-existent addresses and
should not be notified.

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special demographiclists...

[Mark Sapiro]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>We're planning on moving off our our creaky old ListProc MLM and
>moving to something with a web interface and an active community.
>I'm seriously looking at mailman as future MLM for all our
>mailing lists (~600).
>
>I was hoping somebody could describe, in broad arm-waving terms,
>how Mailman could be used as a back-end for doing mailings to
>one-time use distribution lists.  Here's the scenario:
>
>The sender will identify the desired demographic, say "left
>handed liberal arts majors with blue eyes", by creating an SQL
>WHERE clause that selects those folks from our Student
>Information System.  (We use a commercial product called
>Banner that sits on an Oracle DB engine.)


SCT reaches far and wide :-)


>So what I'll have to work with are unique user IDs which I can
>then turn into a set names and e-mail addresses that exist
>within our various e-mail and alias systems.  And of course
>I'll be handed a message to be distributed and the e-mail
>address of the sender.  After this particular list is built
>and the message has been sent, that particular demographic may
>not ever be used again.
>
>Finally, there is the possibility that I would have the unique
>ID, name, and e-mail address for all possible users stored in
>an LDAP.  But the LDAP would contain no other selector
>information, such as eye color.  :-)   In other words the
>demographic selection process would always have to be made in
>Oracle.
>
>Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
>above situation with ListProc:
>
>I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
>announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
>script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
>and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
>exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
>command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
>sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
>posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
>flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
>accidental re-use.
>
>I see that Mailman has a mass subscription function, so I could
>do something similar using that facility.  But at this point I
>don't know enough about mailman to know if there would be a more
>proper mailman-ish solution to this problem.

Here's my $.02. Mailman allows a per list customization mechanism that
can be used to establish a custom MemberAdaptor module for one or more
lists. You could set up your one, standing, generic announcement list
to use an LDAP MemberAdaptor to access the LDAP you refer to above.
The other 599 lists would use Mailman's standard MemberAdaptor.

If you had in addition to email address and whatever else you wanted in
the LDAP, a single flag meaning 'mail this one', then you could make
your selection, flag those records in the LDAP, post to the list and
clear out the LDAP flags.

Both LDAP and MySQL MemberAdaptors exist. See

for LDAP and

for MySQL, although if you're interested in the MySQL MemberAdaptor,
see the threads:

Mysql MemberAdaptor 1.61 and Mailman 2.1.6
and
MysqlMemberships.py [was: Informal "MEP" process, anyone? [was: PHP
Wrappers?]]
which ultimately became just
MysqlMemberships.py

at

and


Note also that the LDAP MemberAdaptor referenced above is a "read only"
adaptor from Mailman's side, but this would appear to be fine as you
would be writing the LDAP outside of Mailman anyway. You would
probably have to modify the LDAP MemberAdaptor slightly so that the
flag I refer to above would have meaning 'delivery disabled' if not
set and 'delivery enabled' if set.

Or you could make your own custom MemberAdaptor that could read any
files or query any databases you want. It would only have to implement
a few methods - getMemberCPAddress(member), getRegularMemberKeys() and
getDeliveryStatus(member). getDeliveryStatus(member) could always
return ENABLED unless you wanted to use it as a flag. I think you also
need getMemberOption(...) although it could always return 0 since it
is only used to determine if a poster gets her/his own post.

You could possibly get it to read the SQL selection clause and query
the Oracle database to get the data to build the results.
getRegularMemberKeys() could return a list of ID numbers from the
query, and getMemberCPAddress(member) would return an email address
for an ID number.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense

[Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special demographic lists...

[Bill . Costa]

Dear mailman Folks,

We're planning on moving off our our creaky old ListProc MLM and
moving to something with a web interface and an active community.
I'm seriously looking at mailman as future MLM for all our
mailing lists (~600).

I was hoping somebody could describe, in broad arm-waving terms,
how Mailman could be used as a back-end for doing mailings to
one-time use distribution lists.  Here's the scenario:

The sender will identify the desired demographic, say "left
handed liberal arts majors with blue eyes", by creating an SQL
WHERE clause that selects those folks from our Student
Information System.  (We use a commercial product called
Banner that sits on an Oracle DB engine.)

So what I'll have to work with are unique user IDs which I can
then turn into a set names and e-mail addresses that exist
within our various e-mail and alias systems.  And of course
I'll be handed a message to be distributed and the e-mail
address of the sender.  After this particular list is built
and the message has been sent, that particular demographic may
not ever be used again.

Finally, there is the possibility that I would have the unique
ID, name, and e-mail address for all possible users stored in
an LDAP.  But the LDAP would contain no other selector
information, such as eye color.  :-)   In other words the
demographic selection process would always have to be made in
Oracle.

Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
above situation with ListProc:

I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
accidental re-use.

I see that Mailman has a mass subscription function, so I could
do something similar using that facility.  But at this point I
don't know enough about mailman to know if there would be a more
proper mailman-ish solution to this problem.

Thanks in advance for any insights.  And to all here's wishing
you a safe and happy holidays.

 ...BC

-- 
+-[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]---+
| Bill Costa   |  No good
| 1 Leavitt Lane Voice:|   deed...
|   CIS/Telecom -- 2nd Floor   +1-603-862-3056 |
|   University of New Hampshire|  Goes
| Durham, NH  03824   USA  |   unpunished.
+---[ http://pubpages.unh.edu/~wfc/ ]--+
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[Mailman-Users] [FIXED] Re: Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:04:31 -0800
Raquel Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've searched the FAQ and cannot find the answer to a problem I'm
> having.
> 
> I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian Sarge. 
> All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or more
> correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created but
> they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive
> variables" don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or
> mm_cfg.py, or they don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right
> direction would be terribly appreciated.  Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Raquel

Thank you for your help, Mark and Dan.  After I got to poking
around, I realized that it wasn't a Debian package install.  So
installed a new version and got rid of the old installation. 
Everything seems to be working well now.  Thanks again!

-- 
Raquel

All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Create mail list which user cannot un-subscribe

[Mark Sapiro]

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I am trying to create a mail list where users DO NOT have the choice to
>un-subscribe.
>Is there a way that this can be accomplished in mailman?

Admin->Privacy options...->Subscription rules->unsubscribe_policy = Yes

unsubscribe_policy (privacy): Is the list moderator's approval required
for unsubscription requests? (No is recommended)

When members want to leave a list, they will make an unsubscription
request, either via the web or via email. Normally it is best for you
to allow open unsubscriptions so that users can easily remove
themselves from mailing lists (they get really upset if they can't get
off lists!).

For some lists though, you may want to impose moderator approval before
an unsubscription request is processed. Examples of such lists include
a corporate mailing list that all employees are required to be members
of.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Create mail list which user cannot un-subscribe

[Elvis Fernandes]

Hello,

I am trying to create a mail list where users DO NOT have the choice to
un-subscribe.
Is there a way that this can be accomplished in mailman?

Any help is appreciated.

Regards
Elvis
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [mailman-users] receiving list mail from account towhich mail cannot be delivered

[Mark Sapiro]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>I see two ways to do this:
>1)  Make it a list member with 'nomail' checked.
>2)  When this account first tried to send e-mail to a list, it was not a 
>member, the note was held, & the moderator was notified.  On the 
>moderators html page (/admindb/), I can check the box 'Add ... sender' & 
>select the radio button 'Accepts' .
>
>So, now a few questions:
>1)  Can/How #2 be done before-hand (before the e-mail is held because the 
>sender is not a member of the list), on the website ?
>2)  related to #1:  How can this 'accept this address as sender' be undone 
>?


For both 1 and 2 go to the admin Privacy options...->Sender filters
page and look at the Non-member filters.


>3)  & most importantly:  Is there a way to make this default for all new 
>[created] lists ?  Can I set some 'default' so that a specified e-mail 
>address is either accepted as a sender without being a member, or make it 
>a member which doesn't receive mail ('nomail'), for all new lists at their 
>creation ?


No. You can set

DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION = 0

in mm_cfg.py, to accept posts from all non-members by default until you
change it, but this isn't what you want.

You could do something like the following:

Create a file containing the one line

accept_these_nonmembers = ['[EMAIL PROTECTED]']

Then you could create a shell script similar to

#!/bin/sh
bin/newlist $1
bin/config_list -i path/to/file/above $1

and use that to create lists. I can't think of a similar way to do this
if you want to create lists from the web.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists

[Ross Vandegrift]

Hello everyone,

I've got some questions on a mailman server that's currently
performing non-optimally.

The server has four lists of about 200,000 recipients each.  They are
announce-only subscription lists that receive an occasional post.
Despite being low traffic, we have some consistency issues.

1) Organization: the current setup is designed so that a post to the
list does not generate overwhelming amounts of traffic at once.  The
list owner posts to each list spaced out by a few hours.

Does a setup like this give any real benefit, or just cause headaches?
Should we consider cutting up the lists further?

2) Recipient expansion: Currently, Mailman is running it's default
recipient expansion to postfix, which sends via SMTP.  Since the
postfix server only accepts mail locally, I have considered making
these changes:
a) Remove any recipient restrictions from postfix smtpd
b) Set Mailman to send a single message with all recipients
c) Set Postfix to limit outgoing messages to <20 recipients

The goal of this is two fold:
a) We have far more postfix expertise in-house than Mailman.
When there is an issue with Mailman, it's hard to solve.  We've got
more people capable of solving issues at the MTA level.
b) Postfix keeps logs for each outgoing message, giving us an
easy way to keep track of a message that is being sent.

Does anyone see any pros/cons with this?

3) Comparison: Is anyone else running lists this large?  I've found
some list server usage surveys online, but most of them have "30,000
and above" as their largest class of addresses.

Thanks for the help!

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37
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Re: [Mailman-Users] can root start qrunners? backups and disasterrecovery ???s

[Mark Sapiro]

Hugh Esco wrote:
>
>I want to write a perl or shell script to occasionally check that the qrunners 
>are still running and if they are not, to restart them.  (I can't afford 
>downtime like this).  My question is this.  Since each instance uses a 
>distinct uid and gid, is it possible to have root handle this task in its 
>crontab?  Or am I going to actually have to su - to each mailman user involved 
>to restart the qrunners, or to install crontabs for each that will handle this 
>job?  


The standard bin/mailmanctl (of which you will have one per instance)
when run as root will set the user and group of itself and its child
qrunners to the configured user and group for that instance (actually
MAILMAN_USER and MAILMAN_GROUP from that instance's
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py).

So yes, you can run it as root.

Read the whole thread starting at

for more information, and see

for the patch mentioned in that thread.


>One other issue, while we're on the subject of disaster recovery, which files 
>and directories do I need to include in my daily back-ups?  And can anyone 
>point me to a how-to that might describe how to restore from such backups 
>should the unthinkable ever happen?  


You should be able to find lots on this in the archives of this list.
You absolutely need the lists/ and archives/ directories. The data/
directory contains held messages waiting moderator/administrator
approval and also the site passwords and queued, unprocessed bounces.

qfiles/ contains the current queues, although restoring those (except
maybe for 'shunt') is problematic as anything they contain will
probably have been processed by the time of the disaster/restore.
locks/ contains the current lockfiles and would almost certainly be
not valid by the time of any restore.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] help: web interface broken "MailmanAdministrativeDatabase Error"

[Mark Sapiro]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Kevin Callahan wrote:
>>
>>Here's the issue. I'm administrating 9 domains on a Verio VPS. Each  
>>domain has its own install of Mailman and have been running  
>>flawlessly for months. Last night, the physical server was taken down  
>>for a memory upgrade; today 6 of the 9 domains no longer list email  
>>lists at http://domain.tld/mailman/ or http://domain.tld/mailman/admin/
>
>See
>

This may have been a bit hasty. Are you saying that the lists just
don't appear on the overview for the domain or that you are receiving
the "Mailman Administrative Database Error" "No such list" if you try
to go to the admindb page for the list.

The latter is inconsistent with lists "working" You say you can see the
lists and add and remove members from the command line. Do you see the
"Administrative Database Error" if you go to
 for a valid listname?
What happens if you go to 
or ?

If the problem is just that the lists don't appear on the overview
pages, then the above FAQ applies. If the other things give errors,
then there's something else wrong.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] can root start qrunners? backups and disaster recovery ???s

[Hugh Esco]

Hello all:  

Thanks (particularly Mr. Sapiro) for the help yesterday.  

I'm working on a server which is expected to host multiple instances of mailman 
in the next week or so.  In the interest of privilege separation, each instance 
is being built to run as a distinct system user, specific to that instance of 
the mailman installation, but distinct from each other.  

I just debugged an issue which had stacked up mail in the mta's que for 
forty-some hours before it was caught (yes, I'm checking out this tracker 
package described in a message a moment or so ago).  In the end, what it took 
was touch .../.../mailman/data/virtual-mailman to create a file being sought by 
the mta, then restarting the qrunners which had all failed for some reason.  

I am unfamiliar with gentoo, being used by our host server, but am making 
progress in figuring it out.  Apparently there is a file somewhere in /etc 
which does what I'm used to having Debian do with /etc/init.d scripts and 
runlevels.  

I want to write a perl or shell script to occasionally check that the qrunners 
are still running and if they are not, to restart them.  (I can't afford 
downtime like this).  My question is this.  Since each instance uses a distinct 
uid and gid, is it possible to have root handle this task in its crontab?  Or 
am I going to actually have to su - to each mailman user involved to restart 
the qrunners, or to install crontabs for each that will handle this job?  

One other issue, while we're on the subject of disaster recovery, which files 
and directories do I need to include in my daily back-ups?  And can anyone 
point me to a how-to that might describe how to restore from such backups 
should the unthinkable ever happen?  

-- Hugh Esco 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] help: web interface broken "Mailman AdministrativeDatabase Error"

[Mark Sapiro]

Kevin Callahan wrote:
>
>Here's the issue. I'm administrating 9 domains on a Verio VPS. Each  
>domain has its own install of Mailman and have been running  
>flawlessly for months. Last night, the physical server was taken down  
>for a memory upgrade; today 6 of the 9 domains no longer list email  
>lists at http://domain.tld/mailman/ or http://domain.tld/mailman/admin/

See


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[Mailman-Users] [mailman-users] receiving list mail from account to which mail cannot be delivered

[webster]

So, I have a made-up 'bot' account which needs to send e-mail to some of 
my lists, but any e-mail delivered to its address will bounce.

I see two ways to do this:
1)  Make it a list member with 'nomail' checked.
2)  When this account first tried to send e-mail to a list, it was not a 
member, the note was held, & the moderator was notified.  On the 
moderators html page (/admindb/), I can check the box 'Add ... sender' & 
select the radio button 'Accepts' .

So, now a few questions:
1)  Can/How #2 be done before-hand (before the e-mail is held because the 
sender is not a member of the list), on the website ?
2)  related to #1:  How can this 'accept this address as sender' be undone 
?
3)  & most importantly:  Is there a way to make this default for all new 
[created] lists ?  Can I set some 'default' so that a specified e-mail 
address is either accepted as a sender without being a member, or make it 
a member which doesn't receive mail ('nomail'), for all new lists at their 
creation ?

Thanks.


Gary R. Webster

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[Mailman-Users] mailman watchdog - status report

[Con Wieland]

Hello,

I recently had some (more) problem's that Mark Shapiro helped me out  
with. In that exchange I asked about a watchdog type program to help  
in early problem detection. Mark  pointed me to:

Brad's "daily status report"


This looks like exactly what I've been looking for and since I hadn't  
found it on my own I thought it would be helpful to share with the  
list, figuring I'm not the only one that hasn't seen it before. I  
would even suggest including it with the mailman distribution.

And let me take a minute to Thank all you folks that take the time to  
'lend a hand'.   I for one can't thank you all enough. You've pulled  
my tail out of the fire more than once. I'm sure there are a few  
others as well..

Happy Holidays to all

Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine
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[Mailman-Users] help: web interface broken "Mailman Administrative Database Error"

[Kevin Callahan]

Hello All,

This is my first post and I'm new to the list; apologies if this has  
been addressed already, though I didn't find any references in the  
archives or via google.

Here's the issue. I'm administrating 9 domains on a Verio VPS. Each  
domain has its own install of Mailman and have been running  
flawlessly for months. Last night, the physical server was taken down  
for a memory upgrade; today 6 of the 9 domains no longer list email  
lists at http://domain.tld/mailman/ or http://domain.tld/mailman/admin/

The lists still seem to be working, and the bin/check_db and bin/ 
check_perms both run fine. All other functionalities seem to be  
intact; I can add and remove members, list the lists, etc all on the  
command line, though the web interface is just broken in that it  
states "There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman  mailing  
lists on domain.tld". I've checked the config.pck files and  
advertising is set to 1.

I'm at a loss of where to look next; any suggestions are *very*  
appreciated.

Thanks!

Kevin Callahan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Raquel Rice wrote:
 a 'private' in the src/ directory,
>> how does it compare to 'private.bad'.
>>=20
>> You could just try
>>=20
>> mv private.bad private
>>=20
>> and see what happens.
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Mark Sapiro=20
>
>It seems to me that the problem lies with the
>Debian maintainer of Mailman.


Yes, it seems so. For more insight on why this might be the case, see
the notes about CAN-2005-0202 at .


>Thank you for helping me to see past the symptoms.
>
>I wonder what would happen if I just renamed "private.bad" to
>"private"?

That's what I was suggesting -

>> You could just try
>>
>> mv private.bad private
>>
>> and see what happens.

I think it will probably work.

You probably should look at the patch at
http://www.list.org/CAN-2005-0202.txt and at your
Mailman/Cgi/private.py file to see if you have this vulnerability in
your Mailman and either patch the file or download the Mailman 2.1.6
version from


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:38:13 -0800
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
> >have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't
> >do it)
> 
> How did you install Mailman? If you installed from source and you
> still have the directory you ran configure and make in, what is in
> the src/ sub-directory? And were there any errors from 'make
> install'?
> 
> You could just try running
> 
> make install > make.log
> 
> (it shouldn't hurt to do it again) so that you see only errors and
> warnings.
> 
> If you didn't install from source, of course this doesn't help.
> 
> Also, is the modification date on private.bad the same as the
> others in cgi-bin? If there is a 'private' in the src/ directory,
> how does it compare to 'private.bad'.
> 
> You could just try
> 
> mv private.bad private
> 
> and see what happens.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro 

This is installed on Debian Sarge, from the package list.  All the
files in the cgi-bin have the same mod date & time.  I believe that
it's the compiled code (which probably means the maintainer) thought
there was a problem with "private"?  There doesn't seem to be any
package documentation (README files, change logs, etc) installed
with it either.  It seems to me that the problem lies with the
Debian maintainer of Mailman.

Thank you for helping me to see past the symptoms.

I wonder what would happen if I just renamed "private.bad" to
"private"?

-- 
Raquel

All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Hugh Esco wrote:
>   edit your apache config to read: 
>   Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/
>   not what you now have pointing directly to the private/ subdirectory.

It needs to be

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

not

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/

unless you've changed PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
>have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't do
>it)

How did you install Mailman? If you installed from source and you still
have the directory you ran configure and make in, what is in the src/
sub-directory? And were there any errors from 'make install'?

You could just try running

make install > make.log

(it shouldn't hurt to do it again) so that you see only errors and
warnings.

If you didn't install from source, of course this doesn't help.

Also, is the modification date on private.bad the same as the others in
cgi-bin? If there is a 'private' in the src/ directory, how does it
compare to 'private.bad'.

You could just try

mv private.bad private

and see what happens.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Hugh Esco]

Try: 
cp cgi-bin/private.bad cgi-bin/private
edit your apache config to read: 
Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/
not what you now have pointing directly to the private/ subdirectory.
restart apache 

then test again.  

-- Hugh 

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:23:07 -0800
Raquel Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
> have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't do
> it)
> 
> -- 
> Raquel
> 
> All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
>   --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:18:35 -0800
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >And therein lies the problem.  The problem is that the URL
> >http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ doesn't
> >go anywhere.  All I get is my web server 404 page.
> 
> Well, I don't get exactly that, but I see something is wrong.
> 
> If I go to , I
> get your (currently empty archive). This is not what you want -
> you want the archive to be private so I go to the private archive
> validation page. Thus, you MUST change your 'pipermail' alias to
> point to the 'public' directory.
> 
> If I go to
>  I get
> redirected to  which is
> clearly not right. I should go to the cgi-bin/private wrapper.
> 
> However, if I go to
>  or
>  I get the
> expected listinfo and admin login pages so the cgi-bin wrappers
> are working in general.
> 
> So, do you have a 'private' wrapper in your
> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/ directory? If not, it should be there.
> If so, and if there's nothing mangled about it or its permissions,
> there must be something in your Apache config that's intercepting
> this URL and preventing it from working as it should.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro 

I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't do
it)

-- 
Raquel

All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>And therein lies the problem.  The problem is that the URL
>http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ doesn't go
>anywhere.  All I get is my web server 404 page.

Well, I don't get exactly that, but I see something is wrong.

If I go to , I get
your (currently empty archive). This is not what you want - you want
the archive to be private so I go to the private archive validation
page. Thus, you MUST change your 'pipermail' alias to point to the
'public' directory.

If I go to  I
get redirected to  which is
clearly not right. I should go to the cgi-bin/private wrapper.

However, if I go to
 or
 I get the
expected listinfo and admin login pages so the cgi-bin wrappers are
working in general.

So, do you have a 'private' wrapper in your /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
directory? If not, it should be there. If so, and if there's nothing
mangled about it or its permissions, there must be something in your
Apache config that's intercepting this URL and preventing it from
working as it should.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:51:14 -0600
Dan Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ IS the  
> correct URL for private archives.
> 
> Dan

And that's the problem.  It goes nowhere.

-- 
Raquel

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intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:50:10 -0800
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >But these were supposed to be private archives.
> 
> If the archives are supposed to be private, you should be
> accessing them via the
>  url and
> not via the 
> link which is ONLY for public archives.
> 
> As I said in my other reply, by aliasing 'pipermail' to the
> 'private' directory rather than 'public', you are enabling access
> to all your archives without going through private archive
> validation.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro

And therein lies the problem.  The problem is that the URL
http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ doesn't go
anywhere.  All I get is my web server 404 page.

-- 
Raquel

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intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>But these were supposed to be private archives.

If the archives are supposed to be private, you should be accessing
them via the
 url and not
via the  link
which is ONLY for public archives.

As I said in my other reply, by aliasing 'pipermail' to the 'private'
directory rather than 'public', you are enabling access to all your
archives without going through private archive validation.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>On the list info page,
>http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this is
>where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
>rather than to:
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/


If you want the archives to be public, you should set archive_private
to 'public' on the list's Archiving Options page. Then you will get
the second link rather than the first.


>>From httpd.conf:

>Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/

This Alias should be

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

Otherwise, you are allowing access to private archives without
validation via the pipermail URL.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:19:21 -0600
Dan Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 1:12 PM, Raquel Rice wrote:
> > On the list info page,
> > http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this
> > is where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
> >  http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
> > rather than to:
> >  http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/
> >
> >> From httpd.conf:

> > Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
> >
> 
> This is correct for private archives. To set them to public (and
> give   the RUL you're expecting), go to
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/  mailman/admin/myfriends/archive
> and select the "public" radio button   under archiving options.
> 
> Dan

>From what I can see, the problem isn't in httpd.conf because the
proper URL, including "/pipermail/" isn't being sent to the page. 
Looking at Defaults.py, I see this variable set:
 PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL =
'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
But I see nothing set for a private archive.  Is there such a
variable for a private archive?  If so, what is it?  Or am I way
off-base?

-- 
Raquel

A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:19:21 -0600
Dan Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 1:12 PM, Raquel Rice wrote:
> > On the list info page,
> > http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this
> > is where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
> >  http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
> > rather than to:
> >  http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/
> >
> >> From httpd.conf:
> > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> > 
> > AllowOverride None
> > Options +ExecCGI
> > Order allow,deny
> > Allow from all
> > 
> > Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
> >
> 
> This is correct for private archives. To set them to public (and
> give   the RUL you're expecting), go to
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/  mailman/admin/myfriends/archive
> and select the "public" radio button   under archiving options.
> 
> Dan

But these were supposed to be private archives.

-- 
Raquel

A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:56:58 -0800
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian
> >Sarge.=20 All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or
> >more correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created
> >but they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive
> >variables" don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or
> >mm_cfg.py, or they don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right
> >direction would be terribly appreciated.  Thanks.
> 
> Please give us more information. I.e. what specific URLs don't
> work? On what pages do you find these URLs? What are the specific
> "archive variables" that aren't "picked up", and where do you
> expect to see them, and what do you see instead?
> 
> Also note that for any 'pipermail' URL to work, you need to have
> an appropriate alias or redirect in your web server.
> 
> -- 

On the list info page,
http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this is
where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
 http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
rather than to:
 http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/

>From httpd.conf:
ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"

AllowOverride None
Options +ExecCGI
Order allow,deny
Allow from all

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/


-- 
Raquel

A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL"implicit destination" messages?

[Mark Sapiro]

Alex Schuilenburg wrote:
>
>Hopefully sometime I will get the time to clean this up to actually make
>this an option, rather than modify the normal behaviour. i.e. The
>options for "require_explicit_destination" become
> No | Hold for Approval | Reject | Discard
>   
>Does anyone else think this a useful change?

Yes. It was just submitted as an RFE (not by me) at
.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian Sarge.=20
>All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or more
>correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created but
>they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive variables"
>don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py, or they
>don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right direction would be
>terribly appreciated.  Thanks.

Please give us more information. I.e. what specific URLs don't work? On
what pages do you find these URLs? What are the specific "archive
variables" that aren't "picked up", and where do you expect to see
them, and what do you see instead?

Also note that for any 'pipermail' URL to work, you need to have an
appropriate alias or redirect in your web server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Archives

[Raquel Rice]

I've searched the FAQ and cannot find the answer to a problem I'm
having.

I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian Sarge. 
All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or more
correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created but
they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive variables"
don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py, or they
don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right direction would be
terribly appreciated.  Thanks.

-- 
Raquel

A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Doubt with python and mailman

[Xabier Guitián]

Hi again!
I've updated mailman and python to the latest versions and the problem 
remainded for sometime, but now everything is working fine, and nobody has 
told us nothing about not receiving the mail. So i think everything went ok 
and the info is useful in case something goes wrong in the future. So thanks!

El Sábado 17 Diciembre 2005 18:36, Stephen J. Turnbull escribió:
> > "Xabier" == Xabier Guitián <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Xabier>   What happens if... you kill python after 'theorically'
> Xabier> shutting down the mailman correctly?
>
> The python process stops, dead.
>
> Xabier> Is this a problem to the possible mails that were being
> Xabier> processed? Is it necessary to send them again?
>
> It should not be a problem, and you should not have to resend them.
>
> (1) Posts are saved as individual files, kept in spool (queue)
> directories.  These directories are processed whenever they have
> contents.  This means that those posts that were not being handled
> when Mailman went crazy are safe, and that when you restart Mailman,
> it will process those queues and send them.
>
> (2) The one post being handled when Mailman goes into a loop is at
> risk, but only of being sent twice.
>
> Do you know why python is hanging that way?  You should resolve that
> first of all.

-- 
Xabier Guitián 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alsernet 2000 S.L.
http://www.alsernet.es
Tlf: 902 187 187 - Fax: 902 187 188
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Re: [Mailman-Users] bounce disable messages even when getting mail

[Mark Sapiro]

Dave B wrote:
>
>The log does show that bounces are being recorded for my address. It 
>shows the bounce message and score and then shows that account was 
>disabled. There are also several (10 - 20) entries per list per day 
>stating that address had received a bounce for that day and also 
>several entries about receiving residual bounces.


So bounce processing is working as it should, and the issue is why are
all these bounces being returned for your address?


>>> Do you have the list's bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to yes, and
>>> if so does the owner receive a disable notification with a copy of the
>>> triggering bounce?
>
>It is set to yes. and bounce_notify_owner_on_removal is set to yes.


So the list owner should be getting a notice when the subscription is
disabled. This notice should have the triggering bounce attached to
it. This may help you figure out what is being bounced and why.


Here's one thought. If your deliveries are VERP'd (so that messages to
you have an envelope from something like
[EMAIL PROTECTED], and if you have a misguided
MUA that includes the 'envelope from' in a reply to the list, every
time you reply to a list post, you will register a bounce because any
message at all sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
will register a bounce on listname for [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>(I am out of town for a week or so and only able to check my email 
>every other day so please don't think I am unresponsive and therefore 
>not that interested in figuring this out).


OK

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Any problem in listening to localhost for anannouncement mailing list instead of my ip.ad.re.ss?

[Mark Sapiro]

Munzir Taha wrote:
>
>This is the first time I install a mailing list so I am not sure whether what
>I am doing is correct or had some side effects. I installed mailman in my
>lists.mydomain.com where
>
>lists.mydomain.com. 3600IN  MX  10 lists.mydomain.com.
>mydomain.com.
>
>and netstat -ap shows
>tcp  localhost.domain:smtp   *:*  LISTEN  -
>since my sendmail.mc is set to
>DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl
>
>One problem is that aliases I added to /etc/aliases won't work and one can't 
>subscribe to the mailing list via sending a 'reply' to the subscripitoin 
>confirmation notice and need only to click the confirmation url so I would 
>need to edit files such as verify.txt, invite.txt, and unsub.txt and omit 
>that relavent 'confirm %(cookie)s' part. Am I going against any 
>recommendation here?


I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but you shouldn't need to
modify templates regarding email confirmation. You may want to modify
the subscribeack.txt template to be more appropriate for an
announcement list, but that's a different issue. See
.

Your aliases MUST work and you MUST be able to receive mail at some
domain and pipe it appropriately to Mailman. This domain would be your
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and would be the host_name attribute for each list.
I suppose it would be possible to run an announcement list that
couldn't receive email, but bounce processing wouldn't work, posting
would be awkward and subscribing/unsubscribing/option-setting/etc.
couldn't be done by email.

So bottom line is you have to set up your MX records and incoming MTA
to be able to receive and deliver to Mailman.

You probably also want your MTA to listen on 'localhost' for outgoing
mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Apache - please help

[Mark Sapiro]

Ben wrote:
>
>> What you need is just what it says. Rerun configure with 
>> --with-cgi-gid=Administrators instead of --with-cgi-gid=mm 
>> (and the rest of the options the same as before) and then run 
>> 'make install'.
>
>I will try it.  If this proves to work, then there are some serious
>changes needed to the Mailman documentation and FAQ.

I don't think so. I think you are misunderstanding what you read. You
do need a 'mailman' (or 'mm') user and group, you just don't want your
web server to invoke the wrappers as that group. Thats what
--with-cgi-gid is for. Read
,
and if you still think there is a problem with the documentation, we
would be happy to get your specific suggestions for improvement.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list

[Mark Sapiro]

Ben wrote:
>
>Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error!
>
>$ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net friends
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Initial friends password:
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 254, in ?
>main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 196, in main
>mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 488, in Create
>self.__lock.lock()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
>self.__write()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/usr/local/mailman/locks/.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0'
>
>I have no idea why it is trying to create this lock file, nor why it
>would be unable to do so.  The permissions are all normal:

The MailList.Create() method needs to obtain a lock for the create
process. Unfortunately, the name of the 'site' lock is not a valid
Windows name. Thus on Cygwin, you need to patch MailList.py similarly
to

--- mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/MailList.py   2005-02-15 16:21:41
+++ mailman-mas/Mailman/MailList.py 2005-10-15 14:29:56
@@ -267,7 +267,7 @@
 # need to reload, otherwise... we do.
 self.__timestamp = 0
 self.__lock = LockFile.LockFile(
-os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '') + '.lock',
+os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '_site_') + '.lock',
 # TBD: is this a good choice of lifetime?
 lifetime = mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_LIFETIME,
 withlogging = mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_DEBUGGING)

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] bounce disable messages even when getting mail

[Dave B]

>> Have you looked in the bounce log to see if bounces are being recorded
>> for your address?

The log does show that bounces are being recorded for my address. It 
shows the bounce message and score and then shows that account was 
disabled. There are also several (10 - 20) entries per list per day 
stating that address had received a bounce for that day and also 
several entries about receiving residual bounces.

>> Do you have the list's bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to yes, and
>> if so does the owner receive a disable notification with a copy of the
>> triggering bounce?

It is set to yes. and bounce_notify_owner_on_removal is set to yes.

(I am out of town for a week or so and only able to check my email 
every other day so please don't think I am unresponsive and therefore 
not that interested in figuring this out).

Dave

On Dec 20, 2005, at 1:21 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dave B wrote:
>
>> I keep getting messages that my account has been disabled due to
>> excessive bounces even though I am getting the email. I am both a user
>> on the list and the administrator. Mailman is running on a Mac OS X
>> Server 10.3.9 Mailman version 2.1.4. I will go in and re-enable
>> delivery and set it globally and then six days later I get the disable
>> message again. As far as I can tell, I am getting all messages until
>> the account is disabled. Anybody have any ideas on what might be
>> causing this?
>
>

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface

[Mark Cave-Ayland]

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 20 December 2005 17:03
> To: Mark Cave-Ayland
> Cc: 'Mark Sapiro'; mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web
> interface

(cut)

> Then I don't think I can help :-( Your original post said the you built
> mailman with uid=gid=mailman and the wrapper seems to be executing
> correctly based on a subsequent post. All looks good from here. Here is
> the sequence that should be happening, see if you can find any reason
> why its not:
> 
> apache invokes the cgi wrapper as the user 'apache', the cgi wrapper
> verifies it was called by apache, then the wrapper does a setgid to
> mailman and invokes the driver script, the driver script should be group
> mailman, so it should have no problems reading the driver script, but
> that is what is failing, go figure, seems like it should work.


Hi John/Mark,

Thank you both very much for you suggestions. I have finally managed to get
mailman working on my FC3 box, after a lot of fiddling. What happened was
that someone had already installed the mailman FC3 RPM on the box in
question, and so I did an "rpm -e" to remove the old installation before
installing the .tar.gz file.

This left the mailman user in /etc/passwd, /etc/group and /etc/shadow and so
I decided to make use of this existing user to run the new mailman install.
However it seems that this was the cause of the problem. So I simply deleted
and recreated the mailman user with a new uid/gid, and now everything works
as expected.


Many thanks,

Mark.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list

[Ben]

Hi folks,

Some more information.  I tried to banish all knowledge of the local
hostname by providing the --with-mailhost and --with-urlhost arguments
at the time of configure:

$ ./configure --with-mail-gid=mm --with-cgi-gid=Administrators
--with-groupname=mm --with-cgi-ext=.exe --with-mailhost=ahualoa.net
--with-urlhost=ahualoa.net

Then I did the 'make' and 'make install' and 'check_perms'.

Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error!

$ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net friends
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Initial friends password:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 254, in ?
main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 196, in main
mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 488, in Create
self.__lock.lock()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
self.__write()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/locks/.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0'

I have no idea why it is trying to create this lock file, nor why it
would be unable to do so.  The permissions are all normal:

$ ls -al /usr/local/mailman
total 0
(...)
drwxrwsrwx+  2 mailman mm0 Dec 20 20:55 icons
drwxrwsrwx+  3 mailman mm0 Dec 20 22:32 lists
drwxrwsrwx+  2 mailman mm0 Dec 20 12:00 locks

The locks folder is empty.  I tried running the 'newlist' command as
user 'mailman', and as a user with Adminstrator priveleges.  In both
cases it gives that same IOError.

Can anyone help?  All I am trying to do is create a simple mailing list.

Thanks,
Ben

> -Original Message-
> From: Ben
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:26 PM
> To: mailman-users@python.org
> 
> Aside from the Apache problem, I can't seem to get Mailman to 
> create a list.  This is on Cygwin.
> 
> I give the command:
> 
>  $ newlist friends
>  Enter the email of the person running the list: 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Initial friends password:  Create a new, 
> unpopulated mailing list.
>  Usage: /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist [options] [listname 
> [listadmin-addr [admin- password]]]
>  Options: (...a whole bunch of explanation...)
>  Illegal list name: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Now, "LittleGuy" is just the name of my local host; it's not 
> the fully-qualified domain.  I don't know why Mailman is 
> trying to use it, but I figured that I could force it otherwise:
> 
>  $ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Enter the email of the person running 
> the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Initial friends password:
>  ()
>  Illegal list name: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> This doesn't make any sense at all.  I'm telling Mailman very 
> explicitly which domain to create the list on.  Why is 
> Mailman still trying to use my local hostname?

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[Mailman-Users] Any problem in listening to localhost for an announcement mailing list instead of my ip.ad.re.ss?

[Munzir Taha]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Sir,

This is the first time I install a mailing list so I am not sure whether what
I am doing is correct or had some side effects. I installed mailman in my
lists.mydomain.com where

lists.mydomain.com. 3600IN  MX  10 lists.mydomain.com.
mydomain.com.

and netstat -ap shows
tcp  localhost.domain:smtp   *:*  LISTEN  -
since my sendmail.mc is set to
DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl

One problem is that aliases I added to /etc/aliases won't work and one can't 
subscribe to the mailing list via sending a 'reply' to the subscripitoin 
confirmation notice and need only to click the confirmation url so I would 
need to edit files such as verify.txt, invite.txt, and unsub.txt and omit 
that relavent 'confirm %(cookie)s' part. Am I going against any 
recommendation here?


- --
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

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