Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Brad Knowles said the following on 2006/09/17 07:32 AM: By rights, the listowner(s) should have the final say as to who is allowed to see the archives of their list, who is allowed to subscribe to their list, and who is allowed to post. Period. In 10 years of being online and being part of list-based communities I've gone through all the iterations of questioning the point above from the same perspective as the original poster for this thread to Brad's comments above and I can say without doubt now that the above is not merely an opinion-based point of view but a fundamental standard and policy guide for the successful use and growth of list-based communities. Even the most open of lists require one or more parties to adopt the list-owner role and make decisions for the whole of the list that not everyone will like or agree with. But continued use of a list (and associated growth in members) requires some semblance of order from a benevolent administrator role. In my experience to date what Brad's saying above is by far the most successful means of operating a list despite it's unpopularity at times. :-) In commercial circles, the kind of thing that they're doing is called piracy -- they take someone else's content and repurpose that for their own benefit and for the benefit of their customers. And that's different from most newspapers how? evil grin Or any media enterprise for that matter. Piracy is one freedom you cannot curtail. But at the same time as mentioned above there are reasons for controlling who contributes and how content is managed. Okay, so Lars does not today make a profit running Gmane. That doesn't mean that tomorrow he won't change his mind, or sell the business to someone else who will. We have a problem here in terms of Data Retention laws. The only privacy protection we have is a clause in our constitution. We have no privacy laws or regulations to properly protect content or archived information -- legally required otherwise. The only protection we have is the policies implemented by list-owners and the abiding by them of list members. In the truest sense, people governing themselves, assuming no bad apples involved. Exploitation of the system offers no recourse for when things go sour. Netiquette is covered by some RFCs but list-etiquette is mostly a word of mouth exercise. It's best taught by example. -- | Bretton Vine | 083 633 8475 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | GPG: http://bretton.hivemind.net/bretton_vine.asc | It is important to go through the steps to appreciate the impending apocalypse. - Astronomy Prof Balbus, discussing supernovas -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Jason R. Mastaler said the following on 2006/09/17 08:10 AM: If Gmane allows me and others to keep up with Barry's release announcements for example in a convenient manner, I think that's a good thing. What's preventing you from just subscribing to the announce list? -- | Bretton Vine | 083 633 8475 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | GPG: http://bretton.hivemind.net/bretton_vine.asc | Historically speaking, the presence of wheels in Unix has never precluded their reinvention. - Larry Wall -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Brad Knowles said the following on 2006/09/16 09:07 PM: The reason that they were removed from Gmane is that they tell us they have a policy of always contacting the listowner to see if it's okay for them to carry the list on their site This is not the case with some lists on the server I admin. Industry specific lists were added without the consent of the domain owner or list-owner. Additionally mail-archive.com has archived other lists without list-owner consent as well. Additionally their terms of service do not allow you to request the removal of the list only to prevent further archival by removing their archive address from the subscribers. I'm making no comment on the ppl behind gmane etc as I don't know them personally enough to comment, and I applaud efforts at making archives of useful lists available in a standards compliant, easily-searchable format. However I have nothing but criticism for the practise of making lists available online without list-owner's consent. It's as bad as forwarding posts from someone to a third-party list without the posters permission. Earlier this year this happened when someone's comments (said somewhat in jest) for forwarded to an enthusiasts forum as an example of hate speech type behaviour. This led to intimidating phone calls and allegedly death threats to the poster from individuals he didn't know at all who took his forwarded comments completely out of context. It was a very sad week for the community network I look after. We've had people meet, get married and have kids because of the lists and the related communities. To see that abused in a negative manner was unacceptable and led to a lack of openness in new subscriptions meaning that now for some lists people have to be vetted and archives are completely banned. Online means of archiving lists are useful -- don't get me wrong -- but some sense of polite protocol must be observed to prevent abuse. Besides, doesn't the mailman list already have an web-accessible archive front-end? -- | Bretton Vine | 083 633 8475 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | GPG: http://bretton.hivemind.net/bretton_vine.asc | I want to suck the marrow from life. As a writer, experience is a feast you can gorge yourself on. Every moment is a kaliedascope of full-colour, surround-sound, haptic exposure to raw reality. Life V2.0 ... now with added zing (tm) - BV -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Barry Warsaw wrote: If I was aware of such problems in the past, I honestly don't remember -- I'll place the blame squarely on my overloaded brain, and age. :) Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do what we can to get the lists on Gmane, including any back archives. The problem is that Gmane violated both their own policies (to contact list owners before adding lists) and their agreement with us to not archive mailman lists. I simply don't trust them. This problem surfaced when I found a virgin address of mine receiving spam. I had just that newly created address to subscribe and post to a mailman list. How had spammers found it so fast? A quick google found that my address had been leaked straight to usenet by gmane. 1) They didn't contact the list owner for permission before archiving the list. 2) They didn't munge email addresses before posting the list messages to usenet. They seem to have fixed problem #2, but problem #1 remains. How hard is it to follow their OWN policy and contact a list's owner before adding it to their gateway? This is basic netiquette. Yet they don't seem able to comply with it. Taking a fresh look, it looks like they are STILL unable (or unwilling) to comply with this. And that's the crux of the matter. Ask me if you can borrow my car, and I might say yes and give you the keys. Take my car without asking, that's theft. Ask me if I want to have sex, and I might say yes! Try to have sex with me without my permission, that's rape. Ask me if you can mirror/gateway a list I administer, I might say yes. Mirror or gateway it without permission (especially when your OWN policy says you ask first) and it is a netiquette violation and a copyright violation. Not as bad as car theft or rape, but it's still a matter of taking something without permission, and it's still wrong. IMHO we should not let Gmane mirror the mailman lists until they FIX their subscription process to ensure that they have the list owner's permission *before* they add the list to their gateway. If we don't maintain this policy, we are endorsing what they do (adding without getting permission) and that's just wrong. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Brad Knowles wrote: I try very hard to never say never, but I cannot imagine a circumstance were we would possibly ever trust them to carry any Mailman or Python-related content. I *can* imagine - it could (perhaps) happen when they actually follow their stated policy and contact a list owner to confirm that the list owner approved of the list being mirrored on gmane. Something that has not happened even ONCE WRT the mailman lists. Until gmane starts following their own rules, we can't trust them. jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
On 9/18/06 10:26 AM, JC Dill wrote: If Barry wants to let the list be gatewayed to gmane and usenet over our objections, he is certainly entitled to do that. It will also mean that he will need new people to help manage the various lists that Brad and I help manage because I'm with Brad on this - gateway to gmane without even asking my opinion and I'm no longer interested in helping manage the list. We (the people on mailman-users-owner who do the lion's share of the work in managing the lists) deserve to be consulted and have our opinions heard on this matter. For now, what about mailman-announce? Since it's a read-only list, it doesn't pose any of the problems you've brought up with non-subscribers and the like. Until you guys and Barry work out what you want to do with mailman-uses and the other lists, is it okay if mailman-announce is added to Gmane? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Restrict subsribers to my.domain.com
Hello folks, Is it possible to restrict subsribers to only those with email my.domain.com ? I have am maintaining a company internal mail-list, and do not want to allow subscibers outside the company. Please let me know how this can be done in mailman. Thanks Tom -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sep 18, 2006, at 12:26 PM, JC Dill wrote: If Barry wants to let the list be gatewayed to gmane and usenet over our objections, he is certainly entitled to do that. It will also mean that he will need new people to help manage the various lists that Brad and I help manage because I'm with Brad on this - gateway to gmane without even asking my opinion and I'm no longer interested in helping manage the list. We (the people on mailman- users-owner who do the lion's share of the work in managing the lists) deserve to be consulted and have our opinions heard on this matter. JC (and Brad) are absolutely right, and I hereby publicly apologize for usurping their roles. I highly value both their contributions as list managers, and since both are opposed to gatewaying to Gmane under the current conditions, I retract my earlier endorsement. I think that if Gmane were to address the issues that Brad and JC have raised about their operations, then it would be worth reconsidering. I'll leave the final decision up to them and won't stick my nose in unless specifically asked to (and even then, not until the current bleeding stops :). I don't expect them to lobby Gmane to address their complaints, but perhaps those of you who would like to see Gmane gateways for the Mailman lists can forward those concerns on to Lars and company. On a personal note, I've re-enabled my subscription to mailman-users after a very long hiatus. I still don't expect to be able to keep up with the traffic, so I'll mostly lurk unless there's some specific issue that I think needs a definitive pronouncement. And next time, I'll try harder not to be a dumbass. ;) - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRQ7eoXEjvBPtnXfVAQI1gAP+L6Gv2uDAlT8ht83UqXUTaNo8JwW5A2uo ExEpm2qNNRDCdmiHd7S0nMAdLCByAkjaErpWL0kmQFfPqJB5h/XvUmgQvStXfMIb lry5BCANTa0SBE6b+xVHpBm6LqfeD93jFP5sm+NndWyx+/NLAsdwIffozYalzt/e q0UBXvYz3bA= =cjOq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
Stefan Grote wrote: okay, but my Mailman error log is empty and my apache logs are empty too. This can happen for a few reasons, but the most likely is a syntax error in mm_cfg.py. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Different URL PATTERNS per virtual host?
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not without running a different copy of Mailman for the different hosts. I thought that might be the case. Guess I'll just move back to http:// globally. Thanks for your help! :) -- Benjamin -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Different URL PATTERNS per virtual host?
On Sep 18, 2006, at 1:24 PM, Dragon wrote: Is there some reason you would not want to run https on all of the lists? I can't speak for the original poster, but in my case it is a question of which domains I'm willing to get site certificates for. -j -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] can't call command line functions from php
I have my php script running as a user in the mailman group, but when I try to do: //add user to Admin email list $command = /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r .$Filename. admins; system($command, $status); I get a status of 1 returned to me and it doesn't add the users. I've tried: shell_exec($command); as well but it didn't work either. I can successfully call these functions from my old perl scripts, so I don't think it's a permissions issue. I think I must be missing something in the php. This may be a little out of the scope of this list, but any help would be appreciated. -- Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane
Barry Warsaw wrote: I think that if Gmane were to address the issues that Brad and JC have raised about their operations, then it would be worth reconsidering. +1 :-) jc -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] can't call command line functions from php
Anne Ramey wrote: I have my php script running as a user in the mailman group, but when I try to do: //add user to Admin email list $command = /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r .$Filename. admins; system($command, $status); I get a status of 1 returned to me and it doesn't add the users. I've tried: shell_exec($command); as well but it didn't work either. I can successfully call these functions from my old perl scripts, so I don't think it's a permissions issue. I think I must be missing something in the php. This may be a little out of the scope of this list, but any help would be appreciated. End original message. - This is slightly off-topic but I am sure there are other users out there who also use PHP for web scripting to interface to mailman (I do on my system, I am far more comfortable with it than Python). This sounds like PHP is being run in safe mode and the scripts you are trying to run are not allowed under the permitted safe-mode commands. Safe mode is often enabled by ISPs running servers that host virtual domains to prevent users from doing malicious and/or negligent things that can damage the file hierarchy or compromise sensitive system information. Chapter 9 of the PHP manual describes safe mode and how it works. If you have error reporting to the browser turned off, you will need to look in the HTTP server error log to see if PHP is complaining about something. You might have to boost the error-reporting level in your PHP script using the error_reporting function in your script to get the level of detail you need. Dragon ~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Extract members fullname
Hung Phan wrote: Is there a way to extract members list with their fullname? Used /usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members to extract the list of emails, but would like to know how to extract with fullnames. Yes. See /usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members --help to find out how. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Topics regex
Tobey Wheelock wrote: Subject: Loc: Test This is my regex: ^(Re: \[Rappnet\] )?Loc(al)?[:.] It catches the initial posts but not the replies. It's not documented, but Topic regexps are compiled in VERBOSE mode which means that unescaped whitespace outside of character classes is ignored. This and other issues with Topic regexps are fixed for Mailman 2.2, but for now, you need your regexp to be ^(Re:\ \[Rappnet\]\ )?Loc(al)?[:.] however you will still have issues with subjects like Re: Re: [Rappnet] Local: something Re: Fwd: [Rappnet] Local: something Re(2): [Rappnet] Local: something and so forth. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Topics regex
On 9/18/06, Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not documented, but Topic regexps are compiled in VERBOSE mode which means that unescaped whitespace outside of character classes is ignored. This and other issues with Topic regexps are fixed for Mailman 2.2, By fixed, do you mean the behavior is now documented? Or that they won't be compiled in VERBOSE mode? (Off-hand either seems reasonable, though I suspect most people are more used to the mode where whitespace is treated verbatim.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ RKBA: http://www.dd-b.net/carry/ Pics: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/ Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] can't call command line functions from php
Dragon wrote: Anne Ramey wrote: I have my php script running as a user in the mailman group, but when I try to do: //add user to Admin email list $command = /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r .$Filename. admins; system($command, $status); I get a status of 1 returned to me and it doesn't add the users. I've tried: shell_exec($command); as well but it didn't work either. I can successfully call these functions from my old perl scripts, so I don't think it's a permissions issue. I think I must be missing something in the php. This may be a little out of the scope of this list, but any help would be appreciated. End original message. - This is slightly off-topic but I am sure there are other users out there who also use PHP for web scripting to interface to mailman (I do on my system, I am far more comfortable with it than Python). This sounds like PHP is being run in safe mode and the scripts you are trying to run are not allowed under the permitted safe-mode commands. Safe mode is often enabled by ISPs running servers that host virtual domains to prevent users from doing malicious and/or negligent things that can damage the file hierarchy or compromise sensitive system information. Chapter 9 of the PHP manual describes safe mode and how it works. If you have error reporting to the browser turned off, you will need to look in the HTTP server error log to see if PHP is complaining about something. You might have to boost the error-reporting level in your PHP script using the error_reporting function in your script to get the level of detail you need. Dragon My safe_mode is Off. There are no errors in my http log and none output to the screen. I can run other commands with system and shell_exec...just not any mailman commands. Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Bounce scores
I just received a message via one of my list admins from a subscriber who was unsubscribed from a list based on a bounce from last year. The subscriber got a message with the following: Your membership in the mailing list . has been disabled due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated 12-Mar-2005. You will not get any more messages from this list until you re-enable your membership. Indeed, if I use dbdump to look at the config.pck for the list I see _many_ entries such as the following: '[address_redacted]': bounce info for member [address_redacted] current score: 2.0 last bounce date: (2005, 2, 17) email notices left: 3 last notice date: (1970, 1, 1) confirmation cookie: None I notice two things about these. First, the last bounce date is _way_ in the past, even though bounce_info_stale_after is set to 12 days. The second is that the last notice date is bogus. Mailman _is_ resetting bounce information since I get many notices such as the following in my mailman logs: Sep 18 12:05:24 2006 (17300) listname: [address_redacted] has stale bounce info, resetting Sep 18 13:15:55 2006 (17300) listname: [address_redacted] has stale bounce info, resetting Sep 18 13:32:43 2006 (17300) listname: [address_redacted] has stale bounce info, resetting ... so it looks as if bounce counts _are_ getting reset. This list has been ongoing for a long time, and the entire list was moved to a new server early this year and has been functioning normally otherwise. I suspect that these database entries may have gotten crosswise of a mailman version upgrade, of which there have been several since the list was moved to mailman. Can anyone tell me how I can straighten this out and get the mechanics of bounce processing working properly? -- Lindsay Haisley | Fighting against human | PGP public key FMP Computer Services |creativity is like | available at 512-259-1190 |trying to eradicate | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com|dandelions | | (Pamela Jones) | -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] can't call command line functions from php
Anne Ramey wrote: I have my php script running as a user in the mailman group, but when I try to do: //add user to Admin email list $command = /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r .$Filename. admins; system($command, $status); I get a status of 1 returned to me and it doesn't add the users. and: My safe_mode is Off. There are no errors in my http log and none output to the screen. I can run other commands with system and shell_exec...just not any mailman commands. Are you sure you're executing the command as the mailman group? Try chmod g+s /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members and see if that helps. If it does, the problem is with the group executing the command. You don't want to leave add_members as SETGID if non Mailman admins have shell access to your box as SETGID will allow anyone to successfully run the command. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Topics regex
David Dyer-Bennet wrote: By fixed, do you mean the behavior is now documented? Or that they won't be compiled in VERBOSE mode? (Off-hand either seems reasonable, though I suspect most people are more used to the mode where whitespace is treated verbatim.) I mean (from the 2.2 NEWS file) quote The processing of Topics regular expressions has changed. Previously the Topics regexp was compiled in verbose mode but not documented as such which caused some confusion. Also, the documentation indicated that topic keywords could be entered one per line, but these entries were not handled properly. Topics regexps are now compiled in non-verbose mode and multi-line entries are 'ored'. Existing Topics regexps will be converted when the list is updated so they will continue to work. /quote -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Restrict subsribers to my.domain.com
Mark, Sweer! It works very well. Thanks Tom On 9/18/06, Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Kavanaugh wrote: Is it possible to restrict subsribers to only those with email my.domain.com You can't do it completely automatically, but you can do it. You first need to patch Mailman with the patch at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=403066group_id=103atid=350103 (possibly modified for your installed version). This patch adds a subscribe_auto_approval list to the Privacy options...-Subscription rules page. (Or you can waiut for Mailman 2.2 which will contain this feature.) Then you set subscribe_policy to Require approval and put the reqular expression [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the subscribe_auto_approval list. Then subscription requests from the my.example.com domain will all be automatically approved and those from other domains will be held and can be rejected by the moderator. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] can't call command line functions from php
Thus spake Anne Ramey on Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 03:06:37PM CDT Dragon wrote: Anne Ramey wrote: I have my php script running as a user in the mailman group, but when I try to do: //add user to Admin email list $command = /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members -r .$Filename. admins; system($command, $status); I get a status of 1 returned to me and it doesn't add the users. I've tried: shell_exec($command); as well but it didn't work either. I can successfully call these functions from my old perl scripts, so I don't think it's a permissions issue. A better look at the permissions issue here would be helpful, since that's the first thing one ought to eliminate. I guess that we can assume you're running this on a 'nix-like OS since you mention permissions. Make sure that /usr/local/mailman/bin/add_members has either world read and execute permissions, or group read and execute permissions (dicey from a security standpoint) or that the web server user is a member of group mailman (or whatever group your mailman is installed as) and that group read and execute permissions are turned on. If permissions are an issue, there may be other mailman components called into the process by add_members which may also need permissions adjusted. If I run system executables from a web page using PHP I generally do so via a compiled setuid wrapper script which allows execution of the system command as a priveleged user, or in your case as the mailman user. This avoids all such problems. My wrapper program is written in C and has a bunch of security checks built into it, and you can obfusticate it in a number of ways so that it's pretty well inaccessable to a would-be troublemaker. Another possible tool here would be to use passthru() instead of system() which will allow any output from $command to be displayed. Another might be to set $command to point to a shell script which will run add_members, which will allow you to redirect stdout and stderr appropriately. I think I must be missing something in the php. This may be a little out of the scope of this list, but any help would be appreciated. End original message. - This is slightly off-topic but I am sure there are other users out there who also use PHP for web scripting to interface to mailman (I do on my system, I am far more comfortable with it than Python). This sounds like PHP is being run in safe mode and the scripts you are trying to run are not allowed under the permitted safe-mode commands. Safe mode is often enabled by ISPs running servers that host virtual domains to prevent users from doing malicious and/or negligent things that can damage the file hierarchy or compromise sensitive system information. Chapter 9 of the PHP manual describes safe mode and how it works. If you have error reporting to the browser turned off, you will need to look in the HTTP server error log to see if PHP is complaining about something. You might have to boost the error-reporting level in your PHP script using the error_reporting function in your script to get the level of detail you need. Dragon My safe_mode is Off. There are no errors in my http log and none output to the screen. I can run other commands with system and shell_exec...just not any mailman commands. Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fmouse-mailman%40fmp.com Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp -- Lindsay Haisley | Fighting against human | PGP public key FMP Computer Services |creativity is like | available at 512-259-1190 |trying to eradicate | http://pubkeys.fmp.com http://www.fmp.com|dandelions | | (Pamela Jones) | -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Announce ONLY list
I need to create an announce only list, where people can subscribe, but they cannot post. I also have other lists that I will need to create continually that will not be this way. Is there a bit I can set for this list only so the subscribers cannot post. Thanks -Rob -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce scores
Lindsay Haisley wrote: Well, I found http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg09827.html which rather explains this, and identifies it as a mailman bug. Does anyone know if this has been addressed, or will be addressed in new versions of mailman? It's on my ToDo list, but it hasn't been done. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] posting to any list also gets posted to local mailman list (v 2.1.2)
Greetings, For the last week or so it seems that messages posted to any of my lists also get posted to local mailman list. (Version 2.1.2) Any ideas or pointers? --Paul. Trust no one; and be careful out there. -- Paul maddog WaterstraatInternet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Department of Geologyhttp://www.geology.ucdavis.edu/~waterstraat University of California Voice: (530) 752-7421 One Shields Avenue FAX: (530) 752-0951 Davis, CA 95616-8605 USA If encryption is outlawed, then bayl bhgynjf jvyy hfr rapelcgvba. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Different URL PATTERNS per virtual host?
Dragon wrote: Is there some reason you would not want to run https on all of the lists? I host a number of sites free of charge. While I don't mind offering Mailman FoC, I feel that there are somethings users should pay for and https is one of them! Take care, Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Different URL PATTERNS per virtual host?
Benjamin Donnachie sent the message below at 15:22 9/18/2006: Dragon wrote: Is there some reason you would not want to run https on all of the lists? I host a number of sites free of charge. While I don't mind offering Mailman FoC, I feel that there are somethings users should pay for and https is one of them! Take care, Ben End original message. - Fair enough, I can understand that the cost of getting an SSL certificate can be a problem. Especially in a case like this. Dragon ~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] posting to any list also gets posted to localmailman list (v 2.1.2)
Paul Waterstraat wrote: For the last week or so it seems that messages posted to any of my lists also get posted to local mailman list. (Version 2.1.2) Assuming [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not a member of your other lists, I think the most likely explaination is that there has been some change in the incoming MTA which is causing it to deliver incoming messages for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to both 'list' and 'mailman'. Check the MTA's logs. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: archive emails are garbled]
Is one of the other lists a better place to ask this?
Probably not. Did you see the reply to your original post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-September/053291.html?
I must have missed your message somehow, thanks a lot for the reply.
Justin Zygmont wrote:
I have a noticed a problem with emails stored in the list archives if
they have been uuencoded. When HTML emails are distributed to all the
list members they just show the raw HTML code,
Messages as sent to message subscribers or messages in the archives?
You should be able to send HTML to individual subscribers if you don't
filter content or if you allow the appropriate MIME types in content
filtering. How such messages appear in archives depends on sitewide
archiving options set in mm_cfg.py.
so I used uuencode and it
fixed that, but when I take a look at the message in the archives it
looks mostly garbled. Here's an example:
begin 644 AgentCommissions.html
M/%$3T-465!%($A434P at 4%53$E#((M+R]7,T,O+T141!(5$U,(#0N,#$@
M5')A;G-I=EO;F%L+R]%3B(^#0H\:'1M;#X-CQH96%D/@T*/'1I=QE/D-I
M='EF;VYE($-O;6UIW-I;VX at 0F%N:SPO=ET;4^#0H\W1Y;4^#0H\(2TM
M#0IT9YL:71T;5T97AT(![(9O;G0M9F%M:6QY.B!!FEA;#L at 9F]N=US
M:7IE.B X'[EMAIL PROTECTED]:#$@( @( @( @( @R!F;VYT+69A;6EL3H at 07)I
M86P[(9O;G0MVEZ93H@,31P=!]#0IH,B @( @( @( @(![(9O;G0M
M9F%M:6QY.B!!FEA;#L at 9F]N=US:7IE.B Q,G!T('T-G1D+F)I9W1E'0@
M( @('L at 9F]N=UF86UI;'DZ($%R:6%L.R!F;VYT+7-IF4Z(#$T'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This is not garbled. It is the uuencoded AgentCommissions.html file. A
uuencoded file is not human readable, but as far as mail agents are
concerned, it is plain text and will be archived in its raw form. Some
MUAs see a uuencoded file in an email and call it an 'attachment' and
render it as such, but this is non-standard. Also some MUAs when
composing will put uuencoded data in a separate MIME part with
Content-Transfer-Encoding: uuencode, x-uuencode, uue or x-uue, but
this to is non-standard.
Anyone know if there is a better way to deal with this?
You should be able to send HTML messages to your list members.
What Mailman version is this? What are your content filtering settings?
Can you provide a sample of a message as sent to Mailman and as
received from Mailman?
The messages appear as HTML code, and do not display an HTML looking
email when it arrives to the subscribers. This was one of the reasons
why I tried using uuencode, but in the list archives, they show in their
uuencoded form which is useless. I wanted it to appear as HTML in
thunderbird, and include it as an attachment also.
I'm using mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3 and tried different content
filering options, it didn't seem to help though. Here is a sample of
part of an email:
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
html
head
titleMobility Points Report/title
style
!--
td.littletext { font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt }
h1 { font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt }
h2 { font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt }
td.bigtext { font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt }
--
/style
/head
body
Thanks,
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: archive emails are garbled]
Justin Zygmont wrote: The messages appear as HTML code, and do not display an HTML looking email when it arrives to the subscribers. This indicates that the MIME structure of the message has somehow been corrupted or you are looking at a 'plain' format digest as opposed to a 'mime' digest or an individual message from the list. I'm using mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3 and tried different content filering options, it didn't seem to help though. Here is a sample of part of an email: The sample doesn't help. What we need to see is the headers of the message and it's subparts. Ideally, both what you send to the list and what you get back. Send a very short, HTML message to the list with a Bcc: to yourself. Then view the message source of both the Bcc: and the message from the list. If you want help, you can copy and paste these message sources into a post to this list. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
