Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Brad Knowles writes:

[[ Aside:
 > I was on the DRUMS working group for a while,

Thank you!
]]

 > The MTA needs to rewrite headers that the MTA needs to rewrite.  The 
 > question is which headers should the MTA be rewriting?

RFC 2821 section 3.8.4 (IIRC) mandates that gateways rewrite non-FQDN
addresses in RFC 2822 headers.  But in the cases in point, we already
have FQDNs most of the time or can trivially generate them (eg, for
locally generated mail append the host's domain name).  My take would
be that MTAs should *translate* FQDNs to primary hostnames for use in
SMTP commands, but that there should be no need to rewrite headers
that are supplied to it, as the remote MTA as an MTA shouldn't care
about the content (including the RFC 2822 headers) of the message.

To the extent that some policy mechanism (which of course is most
efficiently implemented by the MTA, eg a Sendmail milter) is analyzing
the headers, the local MTA is obviously in the best position to check
and if appropriate rewrite addresses in the headers to conform with
policy (at least to the extent that making thing look consistent with
the DNS are going to help).  But that's going to depend on what common
policies are, and what policies any given user will encounter.  AFAIK
there are as yet no BCPs, let alone standards, for that.

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[Mailman-Users] PROBLEM

[simply arun]

Hello ALL
I have a new requirement for my company
As per the requirement I need to add multiple domains.for example
list.web2ph.net and list.ispai.in in the same mail server

Requirement
When i will create a mailing list for ispai.in it should show me to
subscribe to the list send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] but as per my
configuration it shows send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe.
The requirement which i asked can it be possible.
If yes please help me
thanks in advance

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Hello again,

>>The only ones that I use are:
>>
>>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'DOMAIN.TLD'
>>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>
>
> What is in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST?
>
> Add the following lines to mm_cfg.py following the assignment to
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

Well, shame to say it pointed to 11.51... Thank you Mark. I guess my
searching for 11.51 string was incorrect.

All is OK now. Thank you for your patience!

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[Mailman-Users] header intact

[Elly cool]

Elly
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts

[Brad Knowles]

At 10:59 AM +0900 4/12/07, Stephen J. Turnbull quoted Mark Sapiro:

>   > I have added FAQ 6.22
>   > .
>   > Look it over and comment/fix as appropriate.
>
>  Basic format, especially the length, looks good to me.

Agreed.

>  Two
>  suggestions: my feeling is that the first line should mention the
>  *places* where replacement has been observed (envelope address, RFC
>  2822 addresses, whatever).

It may be my anti-histamine-fogged brain, but I'm not quite sure I 
understand what you mean.  Could you clarify?

>  Second, while I'm not real keen on the idea that the Mailman faq
>  should contain a large email vocabulary list, do we have a single
>  "jargon faq" that gives pointers to RFCs that are frequently
>  referenced and also mail FAQs That Are Maintained By Somebody (for
>  values of Somebody != mailman developers)?

I'm not aware of anything we're keeping in this area with regard to 
Mailman.  We could link to some of the FAQs and RFCs on faqs.org, but 
there are so many different FAQs and RFCs that I fear we would 
seriously scare the bejeebies out of anyone who actually read such an 
entry.

>  It would be cool if
>  generic mail jargon (eg, "envelope address") could be linked to that
>  FAQ.

There is always the Jargon File.  ;)

>  Obviously the second comment is a generic, while I'm thinking of it,
>  kind of thing.  I'll try to get back to it myself, later, but I won't
>  cry if somebody beats me to it.

Please, feel free to take a whack at it.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts

[Brad Knowles]

At 12:26 AM +0900 4/12/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  I think it's odd that RFC 2821 section 3.6 fails to mention that it
>  contradicts RFC 1123 section 5.2.2.  Nor does RFC 2821 claim to
>  supersede or update RFC 1123 or STD 3.  The fact that in both 3.6 and
>  throughout section 5 it implausibly restricts primary names to A RRs
>  (omitting IPv6  RRs) suggests to me that there was a long
>  political battle, and everybody was too tired to even kick the tires
>  to make sure there was air in them before publishing the RFC.  :-/

I was on the DRUMS working group for a while, and I know that there's 
a lot of stuff that fell through because of certain interpersonal 
conflicts between some of the individuals involved.  It got to the 
point where my contributions were nothing but taking the opposite 
position of another person on the WG, regardless of what their 
positions were.  That was the point at which I decided it was no 
longer practical for me to remain on DRUMS, although since that 
particular individual had long-running arguments with several other 
people, I have to assume that the same sort of thing continued even 
after I left.

>  Late-breaking news:  somebody who I suspect knows what they're doing
>  agrees with me that RFC 2821 should say it updates RFC 1123:
>
> 
>http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-rfc2821bis-01.txt

I'll have to take some time to read that properly.  Now is not that time.

>  Well, it is required by RFC 1123, but RFC 2821 clearly envisions a
>  world where CNAMEs are always resolved by the client at the time of
>  contacting the server, with the exception of the ELHO command, which
>  must already be a primary host name.

That does seem likely, but that is also a paradigm shift from the 
first twenty-something (or whatever) years of Internet e-mail, and 
there's going to be a very long time before most MTAs implement the 
new behaviour.

In the meanwhile, we have to continue to deal with the issue of the 
old behaviour.

>  I believe that the restrictions on address fields in messages in RFC
>  2822 format are much weaker, ie, purely syntactic.  There's no reason
>  to suppose that the MUA will have an Internet connection or be
>  available to revise addresses if the MTA doesn't like them; on the
>  other hand, the MTA should not rewrite headers.

The MTA needs to rewrite headers that the MTA needs to rewrite.  The 
question is which headers should the MTA be rewriting?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I have added FAQ 6.22
 > .
 > Look it over and comment/fix as appropriate.

Basic format, especially the length, looks good to me.  Two
suggestions: my feeling is that the first line should mention the
*places* where replacement has been observed (envelope address, RFC
2822 addresses, whatever).

Second, while I'm not real keen on the idea that the Mailman faq
should contain a large email vocabulary list, do we have a single
"jargon faq" that gives pointers to RFCs that are frequently
referenced and also mail FAQs That Are Maintained By Somebody (for
values of Somebody != mailman developers)?  It would be cool if
generic mail jargon (eg, "envelope address") could be linked to that
FAQ.

Obviously the second comment is a generic, while I'm thinking of it,
kind of thing.  I'll try to get back to it myself, later, but I won't
cry if somebody beats me to it.

Also, I have fixed a typo (aditionally -> additionally).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts

[Mark Sapiro]

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>So, we're still going to need a FAQ on this subject, regardless of 
>whether the then-current RFCs require that CNAME aliases be resolved 
>to their actual canonical names or not.


I have added FAQ 6.22
.
Look it over and comment/fix as appropriate.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list

[Mark Sapiro]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I just put in 'listname'... it was originally the [EMAIL PROTECTED] in that 
>slot.
>
> -- Original message --
>From: Paul Tomblin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>> > Forbidden
>> > You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this 
>> server.
>> 
>> Did you really put "listname.com" in the URL, or did your browser spaz out
>> and put it the ".com" in?


This looks like cPanel, so see
.

That said, assuming you are accessing the admindb pages via the same
URL that used to work, something has changed in either the web server
or the underlying Mailman installation and you'll have to contact
whoever is responsible for those things.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help

[Mark Sapiro]

Dave Kall wrote:
>
>The address I have is like:
>
>http://my.domain.org/mailman/admin/scoop/members/add? 
>subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&send_notification 
>s_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=&subscribees_upload=&invitation=&setmember 
>opts_btn=Submit Your Changes


You have extra stuff you don't need, but the problem is that you're
missing the list admin password.

See

and possibly other posts in that thread or returned by
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain

[Mark Sapiro]

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>>>But when I write to [EMAIL PROTECTED], I get an email from
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>> What are your settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and add_virtualhost() for
>> that host.
>
>The only ones that I use are:
>
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'DOMAIN.TLD'
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes


What is in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST?

Add the following lines to mm_cfg.py following the assignment to
DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'correct FQDN'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

and then restart Mailman.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list

[reikiiii]

I just put in 'listname'... it was originally the [EMAIL PROTECTED] in that 
slot.

--
Blessings,
Toni


 -- Original message --
From: Paul Tomblin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > Forbidden
> > You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this 
> server.
> 
> Did you really put "listname.com" in the URL, or did your browser spaz out
> and put it the ".com" in?
> 
> -- 
> Paul Tomblin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://blog.xcski.com/
> One could teach a child to Google but one _still_ should
> make them think.
>   -- Maarten Wiltink
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list

[Paul Tomblin]

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this 
> server.

Did you really put "listname.com" in the URL, or did your browser spaz out
and put it the ".com" in?

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[Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list

[reikiiii]

I was doing my daily chores of dealing with pending messages just fine. 
Suddenly, this is the message I get when I try to approve or dump emails to the 
list. (I've changed only what shows as the listname here.)  I'm hoping there is 
an easy fix to this. Thanks for helping a newbie like me. :)

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this 
server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an 
ErrorDocument to handle the request. 

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[Mailman-Users] Subscription Help

[Dave Kall]

I'm trying to write a script to add users through the url address:  
Seems that this should work.


The address I have is like:

http://my.domain.org/mailman/admin/scoop/members/add? 
subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&send_notification 
s_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=&subscribees_upload=&invitation=&setmember 
opts_btn=Submit Your Changes

My school system will not allow mail to travel beyond our mail server  
inside the  firewall. So users can't email my list server from  
outside the firewall. Thus I need to automate  the collection of  
users and do an import and then modify their settings.

I want to automate the process; thus I'm down to adding users through  
the URL.

If someone has a way to automate the submit button that would work  
too; but I'm finding that all the more diffiucult.

I already tried to simply replace subscribees=&subscribees_upload  
with address' and that didn't seem to work.

I do thank you for any time any of you might invest in this riddle.

Sincerely,
Dave Kall
Technology Specialist
PCSB



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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Dear Mark,

>>But when I write to [EMAIL PROTECTED], I get an email from
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
> What are your settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and add_virtualhost() for
> that host.

The only ones that I use are:

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'DOMAIN.TLD'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

>
> If the settings are correct, did you restart Mailman (mailmanctl
> restart) since you made them correct?

Yes, I did. That's the strange part. But still when I do:

find -f /usr/local/mailman |grep "192.168.11.51"

I get:
/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.192.168.11.51.85053

Thank you again!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain

[Mark Sapiro]

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I have a problem with just one list - the main list called mailman. It was
>created with 192.168.11.51 IP as default for this list but since then I
>ran fix_url to point it to my current domain and when I visit the general
>options page for mailman, I can see the appropriate domain there.
>
>But when I write to [EMAIL PROTECTED], I get an email from
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Where do I set this to the domain name? Many thanks in advance!


What are your settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and add_virtualhost() for
that host.

If the settings are correct, did you restart Mailman (mailmanctl
restart) since you made them correct?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] No hitches

[Barry Finkel]

Paul Tomblin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Debian just marked Debian 4.0 (etch) as stable, so I upgrade my Debian 
>3.1 (sarge) colo box to Debian 4.0.  Along the way, it upgraded Mailman 
>from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9.  Just wanted to let anybody else contemplating such 
>an upgrade that it went without a hitch.  The stage where it says 
>"Updating old qfiles" takes rather a long time, but it eventually 
>finishes.  Mail continues to flow, the web interface works, the archives 
>work.

>From my experience with Ubuntu/Debian distributions, just because it
is labelled 2.1.9 does not mean that the distribution was built from
the SourceForge 2.1.9 source tree.  As I could not guarantee that the
Ubuntu/Debian package was the real 2.1.9 source, I built a package
from the 2.1.9 source tree.

I tried a build on dapper using a 2.1.9 edgy-backport distribution.
This was supposedly a 2.1.9 source tree.  I saw these patch files:

 debian/patches/00_stolen_from_HEAD.patch
 debian/patches/01_defaults.debian.patch
 debian/patches/07_snooze.patch
 debian/patches/10_wrapper_uid.patch
 debian/patches/11_handle_propfind.patch
 debian/patches/15_mailmanctl_daemonize.patch
 debian/patches/16_update_debian.patch
 debian/patches/20_qmail_to_mailman.debian.patch
 debian/patches/21_newlist_help.patch
 debian/patches/30_pipermail_threads.patch
 debian/patches/32_MIME_fixup.patch
 debian/patches/51_nocompile.pyc.patch
 debian/patches/52_check_perms_lstat.patch
 debian/patches/53_disable_addons.patch
 debian/patches/56_fix_de_broken_links.patch
 debian/patches/58_fix_es_translation.patch
 debian/patches/59_fix_missing_language_crash.patch
 debian/patches/61_fix_ru_siteowner.patch
 debian/patches/62_new_list_bad_pending_requests.patch
 debian/patches/63_update_default_server_language.patch
 debian/patches/64_correct_html_nesting.patch
 debian/patches/65_handle_templates_directories.patch
 debian/patches/66_donot_let_cache_html_pages.patch
 debian/patches/67_update_handle_old_versions.patch
 debian/patches/70_invalid_utf8_dos.patch
 debian/patches/71_date_overflows.patch
 debian/patches/72_fblast_add_shebang.patch
 debian/patches/74_admin_non-ascii_emails.patch
 debian/patches/77_header_folding_in_attachments.patch
 debian/patches/78_DeprecationWarning.patch
 debian/patches/79_archiver_slash.patch
 debian/patches/80_fix_string_search.patch
 debian/patches/99_js_templates.patch

I stopped building the process when I discovered that the patch
process had changed from dapper to edgy, and I was not sure how
to handle the changes in dapper.  And for most of the patches, there
was no cross-reference to a Debian patch number, so I could not
tell the reason for the patch without close examination of the source
code.  I did not do this because I have learned from this mailman-users
list that complete help is not available here for non-standard source
modifications.

I did a build, using the Debian mailman_2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1 distribution
and using the SourceForge 2.1.9 source tree.  I saw these patches:

 debian/patches/00_stolen_from_HEAD.dpatch
 debian/patches/01_defaults.debian.dpatch
 debian/patches/02_CAN-2004-1177_driver_css.dpatch
 debian/patches/03_CAN-2004-1143.dpatch
 debian/patches/04_CAN-2005-0202.dpatch
 debian/patches/05_config_list_member_options.dpatch
 debian/patches/07_snooze.dpatch
 debian/patches/10_wrapper_uid.dpatch
 debian/patches/11_handle_propfind.dpatch
 debian/patches/12_savannah_wrapper.dpatch
 debian/patches/15_mailmanctl_daemonize.dpatch
 debian/patches/16_update_debian.dpatch
 debian/patches/20_qmail_to_mailman.debian.dpatch
 debian/patches/21_newlist_help.dpatch
 debian/patches/23_fix_urls.dpatch
 debian/patches/30_pipermail_threads.dpatch
 debian/patches/31_buggy_queuefiles.dpatch
 debian/patches/32_MIME_fixup.dpatch
 debian/patches/50_README.EXIM.paths.dpatch
 debian/patches/50_README.POSTFIX.dpatch
 debian/patches/51_nocompile.pyc.dpatch
 debian/patches/52_check_perms_lstat.dpatch
 debian/patches/53_disable_addons.dpatch
 debian/patches/56_fix_de_broken_links.dpatch
 debian/patches/57_fix_missing_da_template.dpatch
 debian/patches/58_fix_translations.dpatch
 debian/patches/59_fix_missing_language_crash.dpatch
 debian/patches/60_french_archtocentry.dpatch
 debian/patches/61_fix_ru_siteowner.dpatch
 debian/patches/62_new_list_bad_pending_requests.dpatch
 debian/patches/63_update_default_server_language.dpatch
 debian/patches/64_correct_html_nesting.dpatch
 debian/patches/65_donot_add_empty_cc.dpatch
 debian/patches/65_handle_templates_directories.dpatch
 debian/patches/66_donot_let_cache_html_pages.dpatch
 debian/patches/67_update_handle_old_versions.dpatch
 debian/patches/68_python24_bouncehandler_datetime.dpatch
 debian/patches/68_translation_

Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Brad Knowles writes:

 > |  In the dot-atom form, this is interpreted as an Internet
 > |   domain name (either a host name or a mail exchanger name) as
 > |   described in [STD3, STD13, STD14].
 > 
 > In particular, note that it says "host name" or "mail exchanger 
 > name", and specifically omits "CNAME alias", and refers you to STD3 
 > (RFCs 1122 and 1123) and STD13 (RFC 1034) for definitions of these 
 > terms.

"Host name" is not defined in STD 3 or STD 13, unfortunately, and IMO
usage throughout both clearly includes CNAMEs in most cases, in
particular in sections describing handling of CNAMEs.  RFC 2821
section 3.6 does define "primary host name" as one corresponding to an
A RR in the DNS, by omission allowing a host name to be a CNAME.

 > 
 > >I conclude that only the EHLO (HELO) command (and possibly
 > >  the server's greeting messages) has the restriction.

This is an egregious error on my part; RFC 1123 (STD 3) is absolutely
clear on this point.  Section 5.2.2 states that in the MAIL FROM and
RCPT TO commands the address must be a *primary* host name (ie, not a
CNAME, but this includes domain literals) or an MX name.  Section
5.2.5 states that the HELO (or ELHO) command must contain a valid
principal host name (including a domain literal).  ("Principal host
name" is apparently intended to be a synonym for "primary host name.")

However, RFC 2821 section 3.6 is emphatic that the only exceptions to
the requirement that the domain part of an address be an FQDN which is
an A, MX, or CNAME are (a) the reserved mailbox "postmaster" and (b)
the address in EHLO.  Then, RFC 2821 section 5 clearly mandates that
CNAME processing MUST be done at connection time (emphasis in the
RFC).

I would conclude (conservatively) that implementations based on RFC
1123 are quite possibly common, and therefore host addresses in EHLO,
MAIL, and RCPT should be primary host names (and of course MX
addresses are allowed in MAIL and RCPT).  However, RFC 2821 allows
CNAMEs IMHO.

I think it's odd that RFC 2821 section 3.6 fails to mention that it
contradicts RFC 1123 section 5.2.2.  Nor does RFC 2821 claim to
supersede or update RFC 1123 or STD 3.  The fact that in both 3.6 and
throughout section 5 it implausibly restricts primary names to A RRs
(omitting IPv6  RRs) suggests to me that there was a long
political battle, and everybody was too tired to even kick the tires
to make sure there was air in them before publishing the RFC.  :-/

Late-breaking news:  somebody who I suspect knows what they're doing
agrees with me that RFC 2821 should say it updates RFC 1123:

http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-rfc2821bis-01.txt

specifically, section 1.4 of that draft says it replaces the entire
mail section of RFC 1123.  Granted, it's just a draft ... it's time
for me to go to bed, so I'll use that as an excuse not to read it just
yet.

 > See above.  I believe that the CNAME re-writing behaviour, as 
 > originally described, is required by the RFCs.

Well, it is required by RFC 1123, but RFC 2821 clearly envisions a
world where CNAMEs are always resolved by the client at the time of
contacting the server, with the exception of the ELHO command, which
must already be a primary host name.

I believe that the restrictions on address fields in messages in RFC
2822 format are much weaker, ie, purely syntactic.  There's no reason
to suppose that the MUA will have an Internet connection or be
available to revise addresses if the MTA doesn't like them; on the
other hand, the MTA should not rewrite headers.


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[Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Hello,

I have a problem with just one list - the main list called mailman. It was
created with 192.168.11.51 IP as default for this list but since then I
ran fix_url to point it to my current domain and when I visit the general
options page for mailman, I can see the appropriate domain there.

But when I write to [EMAIL PROTECTED], I get an email from
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Where do I set this to the domain name? Many thanks in advance!


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot

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