Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Mark Sapiro]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Brad Knowles writes:
>
> > Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
> > be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.
>
>The CGI and MTA interface wrappers are written in C, but they're
>really really simple (as anything security-critical should be).
>
>It's not going to make any difference what they're compiled with.


Those aren't the issue. ./configure and make handle them just fine.

The issue is the Korean and Japanese codecs which are set up by Python
distutils using I don't recall which compiler, but not necessarily the
one configure finds.

This is known to cause problems on Solaris which is the subject of
threads found by the

search I posted earlier. In particular, see the thread starting at
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache,

[Vidiot]

>The CGI and MTA interface wrappers are written in C, but they're
>really really simple (as anything security-critical should be).
>
>It's not going to make any difference what they're compiled with.

I'll install the GNU C compiler tools.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as

[Vidiot]

Brad Knowles responded:

>Following our standard installation procedure works just fine for 
>Solaris 10.  I've done it.

Thanks, great news.

>Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
>be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.

D'oh!

>If there was anything that needed to be compiled with a C compiler, I 
>would think that the Gnu C compiler would probably be a better choice 
>than the Sun compiler, but it shouldn't really make much of a 
>difference.  What differences there are would probably be more a 
>result of gmake versus Sun's version of make, as compared to the 
>compiler differences.

At work we use Sun Studio for compiling the Solaris 10 i386 version and
gcc to compile the Solaris 8 sparc version.  Both using gmake.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Brad Knowles writes:

 > Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
 > be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.

The CGI and MTA interface wrappers are written in C, but they're
really really simple (as anything security-critical should be).

It's not going to make any difference what they're compiled with.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Vidiot]

>The results of
>
>may interest you.
>Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,

Thanks, so noted.

The Solaris 10 installed.  The proc temp stayed low enough to not get Solaris
mad and want to halt.

Lots of work to do to get the new box up and running as the new server.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Brad Knowles]

On 6/25/08, Vidiot wrote:


 Thanks for pointing this out.  I'll go away now and compile the source
 when I get Sol10 working.  Speaking of that, do you suggest using GNU or
 Sun Studio to compile the package?


Following our standard installation procedure works just fine for 
Solaris 10.  I've done it.



Moreover, the Mailman code is written in Python, so there shouldn't 
be any need to compile anything with any C compiler.


If there was anything that needed to be compiled with a C compiler, I 
would think that the Gnu C compiler would probably be a better choice 
than the Sun compiler, but it shouldn't really make much of a 
difference.  What differences there are would probably be more a 
result of gmake versus Sun's version of make, as compared to the 
compiler differences.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Mark Sapiro]

Vidiot wrote:
>
>Thanks for pointing this out.  I'll go away now and compile the source
>when I get Sol10 working.  Speaking of that, do you suggest using GNU or
>Sun Studio to compile the package?


There are others on this list that can speak to Solaris installation
about which I know almost nothing.

The results of

may interest you.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Vidiot]

>That's because you're installing a RedHat package, and the RPM already
>installed /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf which contains that
>ScriptAlias.

Oh crap.  Another reason I am going toward Solaris 10.  The last thing I'd
do is stick a web server confing file in another directory and include it.
If they would have dropped the mailman config file in the main config
directory, it would have caught my attention.

Burying it elsewhere just does the out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing.

>You should be following the RedHat documentation that came with your
>package, not our generic, install from source documentation.

Ya, that is going to be fun - NOT!  I don't even know where the DVD is at
the moment and have no idea if they actually installed any doumentation.

At this point I'm just going to say screw it until I get the Solaris 10 box
up and running.  The configurations are obviously going to be different as
I have no idea what the Hell they did when mailman was installed.  FYI,
there is no man page for mailman, so there isn't even a hint as to what
they did.

The computer is running, sorta.  The damn processor is running hot and that
is just sitting on the BIOS screen looking at system values.  The AMD
supplied heatsink can't even keep the temp near 40 deg C doing nothing.
In a warm room, trying to install Solaris results in Solaris bitching
that the temp is too hot and stopping.  Sure enough, it was at 61 degrees,
four less than the operational max.

Not your problem.

Thanks for pointing this out.  I'll go away now and compile the source
when I get Sol10 working.  Speaking of that, do you suggest using GNU or
Sun Studio to compile the package?

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Mark Sapiro]

Vidiot wrote:

>>Why do you think that?
>
>ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin"
>
>mrvideo.vidiot.com.ZROOT <406> /etc/init.d/httpd restart   
>Stopping httpd:[  OK  ]
>Starting httpd: [Wed Jun 25 18:59:28 2008] [warn] The ScriptAlias directive in 
>/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 571 will probably never match because it 
>overlaps an earlier ScriptAlias.
>   [  OK  ]
>
>The 2nd ScriptAlias line is line 571.
>
>If I comment it out and restart the web server, there are no errors.
>
>That is why I say it doesn't work.


See my reply at
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Vidiot]

>Why do you think that?

ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"
ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin"

mrvideo.vidiot.com.ZROOT <406> /etc/init.d/httpd restart   
Stopping httpd:[  OK  ]
Starting httpd: [Wed Jun 25 18:59:28 2008] [warn] The ScriptAlias directive in 
/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 571 will probably never match because it 
overlaps an earlier ScriptAlias.
   [  OK  ]

The 2nd ScriptAlias line is line 571.

If I comment it out and restart the web server, there are no errors.

That is why I say it doesn't work.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Mark Sapiro]

Vidiot wrote:
>
>After doing said setting in the config file and restarting the seb server
>it spits out a warning messag that it exists and that the 2nd one might not
>get reached.
>
>I'll do it again and post the exact warning message.


That's because you're installing a RedHat package, and the RPM already
installed /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf which contains that
ScriptAlias.

You should be following the RedHat documentation that came with your
package, not our generic, install from source documentation.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Somewhere I think I've missed a step. Did I finishthe Install wrong?

[Mark Sapiro]

TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote:

>I'm a new mailman server administrator. I'm trying to install the app on my
>server for a new client who has been running it for 2 years on another host.
>I'm using Python 2.4.5 (a fresh install downloaded from the Python.org site
>and mailman 2.1.11 downloaded from SourceForge via the www.lists.org site
>(i.e. these are pure vanilla - straight from the box - installs) It's
>installed on my dedicated RedHat Linux server running RH v7.1
>
> 
>
>Mailman is installed in /usr/local/mailman/ 
>
> 
>
>./Configure, make and "make install" all ran okay from WITHIN
>/usr/local/mailman/src once I finally figured out I could not put both the
>source and the runtime into /usr./local/mailman and moved the source to the
>src subdirectory. 
>
> 
>
>HOWEVER, please note that I have ONLY run "make install" in
>/usr/local/mailman/src. I have NOT installed mailman in any user domain's
>home directory (or subdirectory) yet.


That's fine. You don't need to.


>I DID make my target user domain (lets
>call it riverrats) a member of the mailman group; but that's as far as I've
>gone at the moment.


That may or may not be necessary or advisable depending on what you
want.


>Mailman isn't even in the search path for the riverrats
>domain. I have a hunch this was a mistake or that there's SOMETHING else I
>still must do INSIDE the riverrats domain in order to enable users to access
>mailman from there. As it stands now, the ONLY way to run the mailman apps
>on the server would be for riverrats users to log into /usr/local/mailman
>and run them from there. Yipes! :-( 


Users do not run Mailman applications. Mailman runs as a service. The
MTA delivers mail to Mailman's queues via scripts invoked via aliases
or perhaps some other method depending on the MTA, and Mailman's queue
runners which are started by /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl by
root, either directly or at boot time. The various other
/usr/local/mailman/bin/* commands are normally only run by Mailman
site admins.


>I believe I made all the required configuration changes to set up the apache
>server properly and I've restarted apache. I also made the required alias
>changes and modified the  mm_cfg.py file in mailman to reflect the domain's 
>
> 
>
>So, theoretically I SHOULD be ready to run. Except I have a hunch I've
>managed to overlook or skip over some key step somewhere. Am I right?


Maybe not starting mailmanctl?

See , and if you're still having
difficulty, let us know what the specific problem is.

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[Mailman-Users] Somewhere I think I've missed a step. Did I finish the Install wrong?

[TGPlatt, WebMaster]

I'm a new mailman server administrator. I'm trying to install the app on my
server for a new client who has been running it for 2 years on another host.
I'm using Python 2.4.5 (a fresh install downloaded from the Python.org site
and mailman 2.1.11 downloaded from SourceForge via the www.lists.org site
(i.e. these are pure vanilla - straight from the box - installs) It's
installed on my dedicated RedHat Linux server running RH v7.1

 

Mailman is installed in /usr/local/mailman/ 

 

./Configure, make and "make install" all ran okay from WITHIN
/usr/local/mailman/src once I finally figured out I could not put both the
source and the runtime into /usr./local/mailman and moved the source to the
src subdirectory. 

 

HOWEVER, please note that I have ONLY run "make install" in
/usr/local/mailman/src. I have NOT installed mailman in any user domain's
home directory (or subdirectory) yet. I DID make my target user domain (lets
call it riverrats) a member of the mailman group; but that's as far as I've
gone at the moment. Mailman isn't even in the search path for the riverrats
domain. I have a hunch this was a mistake or that there's SOMETHING else I
still must do INSIDE the riverrats domain in order to enable users to access
mailman from there. As it stands now, the ONLY way to run the mailman apps
on the server would be for riverrats users to log into /usr/local/mailman
and run them from there. Yipes! :-( 

 

I believe I made all the required configuration changes to set up the apache
server properly and I've restarted apache. I also made the required alias
changes and modified the  mm_cfg.py file in mailman to reflect the domain's 

 

So, theoretically I SHOULD be ready to run. Except I have a hunch I've
managed to overlook or skip over some key step somewhere. Am I right?

 

 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail todayandstoppedarchiving a month ago

[Dan Mashal]

Thank you so much!! The archive dirs were owned by root. I chowned the
archive dirs and ran unshunt and now all my archives show up. I also
fixed the 2 outgoing copies of qrunner.

Unfortunately, Fedora has not come out with a yum mailman package for
2.10 or 2.11.. so I'm still waiting on this but it kinda scares me that
it might break something. 

Thank you again!

Dan

-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:51 PM
To: Dan Mashal; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stopped sending mail
todayandstoppedarchiving a month ago

Mark Sapiro wrote
>
>The mailman group does not have permission to create lock files in the
>various /var/lib/mailman/archives/private//database/
>directories.
>
>You said SELinux is off, so this must be a straight permissions issue.


I meant to add that all your missing archive messages are in
/var/spool/mailman/shunt/. After you fix the permissions issue, you
can reprocess them with Mailman's bin/unshunt.

It is generally a good idea to look at the entries before unshunting
all of them in case some are very old, irrelevant entries from before
your migration. Given what must be the huge number of entries, this
may be difficult, but I would look at those older than your migration
with bin/show_qfiles to se if they should be removed befor running
unshunt.

Also, after you run bin/unshunt and the shunt queue is empty or nearly
so, you might consider doing something like to reduce the physical
size of the directory.

Or you can simply do

mv /var/spool/mailman/shunt /tmp/
cp -a /tmp/shunt /var/spool/mailman/
rm -r /tmp/shunt

to reduce the physical size of the directory.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] was Standard Footer, now Images in Footer?

[Brad Knowles]

Lynn, Michael (GWM-CAI) wrote:


Is there an easy way to incorporate an image into this?  I'm thinking
the answer is no - since determination of the mail content format is
made outside mailman's sphere of influence... Just curious if anybody
has attempted this.


Not without making source-code level changes to the Mailman code, no.  You 
can't even include any HTML in the footer.


You can include text-mode links, although they may get HTML-escaped if you 
enter them through the Web UI instead of putting them directly into the 
template text file on the server.



Take a look in the archives at somewhat older messages to this mailing list. 
 They were HTML-escaped because I had entered the URLs via the Web UI.  Now 
that we've moved the FAQ over to the Wiki and we no longer have URLS with 
question marks in them, you don't see that HTML escaping anymore.



The problem of doing surgery on HTML formatted e-mail messages as they pass 
through the system is much more complex than anyone ever gives credit for. 
See the archives of the mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists 
for more information.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer

[Brad Knowles]

Webmaster PF wrote:


I tried to follow these procedures but when some one posts the footer is
in the attachment of the posting instead of the body; unless my Outlook
is viewing them wrong.


If you go to the FAQ page at 
 and search for 
"footer", one of the top hits will have the subject line "Mailman is munging 
HTML & MIME-formatted messages before they are sent out? (problems with 
Mailman 2.1.x footers)", and the short URL for this page is 
.


Please tell us what is wrong with this subject line and why it didn't show 
up in your previous searches of the FAQ.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer

[Webmaster PF]

I tried to follow these procedures but when some one posts the footer is in the 
attachment of the posting instead of the body; unless my Outlook is viewing 
them wrong.

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg48559.html

This is what I have in my settings:

%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)[EMAIL PROTECTED](host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
Unsubscribe: %(user_optionsurl)s

Shaf


-Original Message-
From: Terri Oda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Posted At: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:45 AM
Posted To: Webmaster PF
Conversation: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer

On 25-Jun-08, at 11:20 AM, Webmaster PF wrote:
> I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard  
> footer. How to I accomplish this? Thanks.

In the admin interface, look under "Non-digest options" for the  
footer settings.

(Incidentally, this is really non-obvious now that I think about it  
-- I'll add it to my list of things that could be easier to find in  
our current interface...)

  Terri


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Re: [Mailman-Users] was Standard Footer, now Images in Footer?

[Lynn, Michael (GWM-CAI)]

Sorry to Hijack/Piggyback...

Is there an easy way to incorporate an image into this?  I'm thinking
the answer is no - since determination of the mail content format is
made outside mailman's sphere of influence... Just curious if anybody
has attempted this.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Terri Oda
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:45 AM
To: Webmaster PF
Cc: Mailman-Users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer


On 25-Jun-08, at 11:20 AM, Webmaster PF wrote:
> I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard  
> footer. How to I accomplish this? Thanks.

In the admin interface, look under "Non-digest options" for the  
footer settings.

(Incidentally, this is really non-obvious now that I think about it  
-- I'll add it to my list of things that could be easier to find in  
our current interface...)

  Terri

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Standard Footer

[Terri Oda]

On 25-Jun-08, at 11:20 AM, Webmaster PF wrote:
I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard  
footer. How to I accomplish this? Thanks.


In the admin interface, look under "Non-digest options" for the  
footer settings.


(Incidentally, this is really non-obvious now that I think about it  
-- I'll add it to my list of things that could be easier to find in  
our current interface...)


 Terri

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[Mailman-Users] Standard Footer

[Webmaster PF]

I would like to have all posting to my list to have a standard footer. How to I 
accomplish this? Thanks.

 

 

Shaf

 

 Example:

 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] The admin web interface is not saving my changesand keeps asking me to re-enter my password

[Mark Sapiro]

Taner Tas wrote:

>I choose same title of Mailman FAQ 4.45 which describes my problem 
>exactly. I checked every suggestion on this FAQ but no one seems 
>suitable for fix my problem.


Sorry for asking, but the FAQ itself is not clear. Do you get returned
to a login screen with every attempt to make a change or visit another
link? If so, the appropriate FAQs are 4.65
 and 4.71 .

Have you tried from a different browser or from a different computer
with a different internet connection? Sometimes these things are
dependant on things like local firewalls.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] David Champion Sendmail files not available

[Mark Sapiro]

Vidiot wrote:

>FedoraCore7.
>Mailman installed with FC7.  As a result, the David Champion files listed on
>page 16 of the Installation Manual do not exist on my system.
>
>Is there a location from which they can be downloaded?
>
>I have no idea if the stuff in his guides has been done on this system
>until I actually verify the steps.


mm-handler is rather specialized and not applicable to a lot of systems.

See  for some other ideas.

You can find everything we distribute, including the mm-handler files
at .
Look in the contrib/ directory.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Mark Sapiro]

Vidiot wrote:

>I've looked at the installation page over at the Wiki and there is nothing
>regarding the problem I've run up against.
>
>See page 6 of the Installation Manual (pdf).
>
>It states the following should be added:
>
>   ScriptAlias /mailman/ $prefix/cgi-bin/
>
>I already have ScriptAlias defined:
>
>   ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"
>
>One is not allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines.


Why do you think that?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ grep -i scriptalias /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf
# ScriptAlias: This controls which directories contain server scripts.
# ScriptAliases are essentially the same as Aliases, except that
# The same rules about trailing "/" apply to ScriptAlias directives as
to
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/var/www/cgi-bin/"
ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
# "/var/www/cgi-bin" should be changed to whatever your ScriptAliased
# To use CGI scripts outside of ScriptAliased directories:
ScriptAlias /cgi/ /var/www/grizz/cgi/
ScriptAlias /cvsweb /var/www/grizz/cgi-bin/admin/cvsweb
ScriptAlias /gpc "/var/www/grizz/moin/gpc/moin.cgi"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$


Works for me.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] The admin web interface is not saving my changes and keeps asking me to re-enter my password

[Brad Knowles]

Taner Tas wrote:

I need a helpful trick for tracing the connections and authentication 
steps on mailman. How can i use detailed debug level logging facilities 
of mailman, if there is something like user configurable logging 
options.


There is no additional logging that can be enabled.  If you're willing to 
make source code changes, you could always add your own logging statements, 
but other than that you're already getting as much as you're going to get.


  Mailman's own error log file seems far away to get usable 
information at the moment.


All cases of this sort that I know of are covered by the FAQ, so if you've 
got a new condition (not covered by the cookie issue, the frames issue, 
etc...), then we'll need to add that to the list.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recipients missing on list post

[Stefan Förster]

* Stefan Förster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm not sure if this is better, but if your Python is 2.4 or later, see
>>  for a patch that can be applied to
>> Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to produce copious debugging output
>> from Python's smtplib to Mailman's error log
> 
> I put thos in place, thank you. Furthermore, I've written a small
> script to parse Mailman and Postfix logs once a day - the next time a
> recipient is omitted I will be notified. Now I have to wait...

This one did the trick. Thanks again, this was _very_ helpful.

>> You could also patch Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to add
>> 
>> syslog.write('smtp', 'recips this chunk = %d', len(recips))
> 
> Listing the number of recipients that the SMTP handler gets is a good
> idea, I've added that one, too.
> 
> I will report my findings the next time I run into this issue.

I have identified the source of my issues: It turned out that the
Mailman installation I inherited was more heavily modified than I
thought - and one of those modifications was the source of the issue I
described. I decided to permanently take care of this and did a clean
reinstall, followed by artitifical stress testing and as expected, the
problem vanished.

I apologize for the noise my inquiry caused.


Cheers
Stefan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Terry Allen]

On 25/06/2008, at 4:52 PM, Vidiot wrote:

I've looked at the installation page over at the Wiki and there is  
nothing

regarding the problem I've run up against.

See page 6 of the Installation Manual (pdf).

It states the following should be added:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ $prefix/cgi-bin/

I already have ScriptAlias defined:

ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"

One is not allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines.  It almost  
appears
that the instructions assume that no other ScriptAliases exist.  Not  
likely.


The instructions have no workaround if Apache already has cgi-bin  
defined.


Is there a workaround?

Thanks for any pointers?


Hi again.

Actually, you are allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines within  
your httpd.conf (or any of your vhost.conf files if you have  
multiples. So long as they only point to a specific directory &  
separate path you'll be fine. One of the servers I manage has maybe 14  
different aliases running - I am sure there will be others who have  
many more.


What the part of the manual you are referring to is saying is that  
when someone calls /mailman, Apache knows that scripts within that  
path are to be executed instead of being served straight up. It's an  
addition to your existing cgi-bin rather than a replacement. Hope that  
rather simplistic explanation serves to help you understand it a  
little better.


	Bye for now, Terry Allen	 
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[Mailman-Users] David Champion Sendmail files not available

[Vidiot]

FedoraCore7.
Mailman installed with FC7.  As a result, the David Champion files listed on
page 16 of the Installation Manual do not exist on my system.

Is there a location from which they can be downloaded?

I have no idea if the stuff in his guides has been done on this system
until I actually verify the steps.

Thanks.

MB
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[Mailman-Users] Apache, mailman and ScriptAlias - not as documented

[Vidiot]

I've looked at the installation page over at the Wiki and there is nothing
regarding the problem I've run up against.

See page 6 of the Installation Manual (pdf).

It states the following should be added:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ $prefix/cgi-bin/

I already have ScriptAlias defined:

ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/home/httpd/cgi-bin/"

One is not allowed to have multiple ScriptAlias lines.  It almost appears
that the instructions assume that no other ScriptAliases exist.  Not likely.

The instructions have no workaround if Apache already has cgi-bin defined.

Is there a workaround?

Thanks for any pointers?

MB
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