Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing the listname-bounces address
Mark Sapiro writes: For Mailman 2.2, I am considering changing the Sender: header from the LIST-bounces address to the LIST posting address. IMO the list-post address is semantically inappropriate. The sender header is the mailbox of the agent that injected the message and presumably would want to know about problems. That's not the list membership. I think a better idea is to use a less geeky name like LIST-admin for the bounce recipient. That's already taken, you might say, but in fact I think it works. This has several advantages IMO: 1. If the recipient's MTA uses a standard bounce format, it will work as it does today, with automatic delivery disabling, etc. 2. Other bounces will go to a responsible party who can deal with them. This could be combined with the usual moderator flow, with an additional button reply with list-help along with the current defer/accept/reject/discard. (Yes, I know that for some lists this could be a burden.) 3. On broken MUAs it reads correctly: From list-ad...@example.com on behalf of aut...@net.invalid. 4. Recipients whose MUAs CC the sender can be automatically disabled, too! (Maybe that's not a great idea for corporate MLs where people are using Blackberrys and other such common offenders, but I often wish I could!) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
Greetings. I have a mailserver running OpenBSD 4.4, Postfix 2.5.3 and
Mailman 2.1.0. The machine hosts multiple virtual domains and Mailman
already hosts several mailing lists in one of these domains.
This evening I tried creating a new list but posts from a subscriber to
the new list bounce with the message User unknown in virtual mailbox
table.
AFAICT Mailman is set up to work with Postfix virtual domains as
described in sections 6.1 and 6.2 of the Mailman docs. Mailman runs fine
for other lists in this domain on this host.
I did notice that the virtual-mailman file was not updated when I
created the list at 18:37:
r...@mail:data# pwd
/usr/local/mailman/data
r...@mail:data# ls -l
total 164
-rw-r- 1 root mailman 41 Apr 19 2008 adm.pw
-rw-rw 1 root mailman 7596 Mar 21 18:37 aliases
-rw-rw 1 mailman mailman 65536 Mar 21 18:37 aliases.db
-rw-r- 1 root mailman 41 Apr 19 2008 creator.pw
-rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman 10 Apr 22 2008 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw 1 mailman mailman 6 Feb 19 02:53 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman 14114 Jun 21 2008 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw 1 root mailman 5077 Mar 21 18:33 virtual-mailman
-rw-rw 1 mailman mailman 65536 Mar 21 18:37 virtual-mailman.db
Not that aliases, aliases.db and virtual-mailman.db all got updated when
I created the new list but virtual-mailman did not. I've tried
restarting apache, postfix and Mailman, but no joy.
I've also pasted lines from the end of mm_cfg.py below.
Thanks in advance for clues as to what's missing here.
dn
from mm_cfg.py (with the domain name scrubbed out):
MTA = 'Postfix'
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld' ]
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')
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Re: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
on 3/21/09 9:02 PM, David Newman said: Greetings. I have a mailserver running OpenBSD 4.4, Postfix 2.5.3 and Mailman 2.1.0. The machine hosts multiple virtual domains and Mailman already hosts several mailing lists in one of these domains. When I got my start with Mailman over five years ago, the current version was 2.1.5. I hope you mean that you're using 2.1.10 or something like that, and not 2.1.0. I'm sorry, I wish I could help with the actual problem, but this really stuck out for me. -- Brad Knowles b...@shub-internet.orgIf you like Jazz/RB guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxuhttp://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] adding a list to a virtual domain
David Newman wrote:
This evening I tried creating a new list but posts from a subscriber to
the new list bounce with the message User unknown in virtual mailbox
table.
AFAICT Mailman is set up to work with Postfix virtual domains as
described in sections 6.1 and 6.2 of the Mailman docs. Mailman runs fine
for other lists in this domain on this host.
I did notice that the virtual-mailman file was not updated when I
created the list at 18:37:
That probably means that the host whose name is the host_name attribute
of the new list is not in the mm_cfg.py POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
list.
I've also pasted lines from the end of mm_cfg.py below.
Thanks in advance for clues as to what's missing here.
dn
from mm_cfg.py (with the domain name scrubbed out):
MTA = 'Postfix'
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mydomain.tld'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = [ 'mydomain.tld' ]
VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
add_virtualhost('mydomain.tld', 'mail.mydomain.tld')
I need more information to tell you exactly how to fix this, but let me
give you an example of how this should be set up with two virtual
hosts with host1's web host = web.example.com and email host =
mail.example.com and host2's web host = web.example.net and email host
= mail.example.net and both mail.example.com and mail.example.net
being Postfix virtual domains and host1 being the one with the
majority of lists.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.example.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'web.example.com'
# above could be the .net domains. It makes now difference other than
# these are the default domains for bin/newlist and some other things.
#
# Clear the Defaults.py VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
#
# Add the defaults
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
# and the other(s)
add_virtualhost('web.example.net', 'mail.example.net')
#
# Update virtual-mailman for lists in both domains
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.example.com', 'mail.example.net']
The other things you have in mm_cfg.py not specifically mentioned are
OK as is.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing the listname-bounces address
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Mark Sapiro writes: For Mailman 2.2, I am considering changing the Sender: header from the LIST-bounces address to the LIST posting address. IMO the list-post address is semantically inappropriate. The sender header is the mailbox of the agent that injected the message and presumably would want to know about problems. That's not the list membership. That's a good point, even though current RFCs (RFC3464, RFC3834) say that DSNs and and other automatic responses should go to the envelope sender of the original message, not the Sender: address. I think a better idea is to use a less geeky name like LIST-admin for the bounce recipient. That's already taken, you might say, but in fact I think it works. This has several advantages IMO: Actually, in Mailman 2.1.x, LIST-admin is a deprecated synonym for LIST-bounces so we could just put LIST-admin in the Sender: header (and undeprecate it) and nothing would change except 3. On broken MUAs it reads correctly: From list-ad...@example.com on behalf of aut...@net.invalid. I'm not sure I understand the following: 4. Recipients whose MUAs CC the sender can be automatically disabled, too! (Maybe that's not a great idea for corporate MLs where people are using Blackberrys and other such common offenders, but I often wish I could!) Presumably, a CCd post would not be recognizable as a DSN, so whether it was sent to LIST-admin, LIST-bounces or LIST-owner, it would end up going to the human owners/moderators at least if bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is Yes. However, if the Sender: were VERP like as in list-admin+rcpt=example@list.example.com, the return could be recognized, but I think that defeats the purpose of having a non-geeky Sender:. If the issue would truly be resolved or at least mitigated by having the Sender: be list-ad...@list.example.com instead of list-boun...@list.example.com, that's a really easy change that wouldn't have any unintended side effects. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing the listname-bounces address
on 3/22/09 8:02 PM, Mark Sapiro said: If the issue would truly be resolved or at least mitigated by having the Sender: be list-ad...@list.example.com instead of list-boun...@list.example.com, that's a really easy change that wouldn't have any unintended side effects. One thing I would want to make sure of is that we don't make a forced unilateral change. Give people the option of changing which header is used and how, but default to whatever the current behaviour is. Maybe even hide it behind a site-wide setting that is turned off by default. I filter all my mail by several different criteria, one of which is the value of the Sender: header. It would be a royal pain to be forced to go in and change all my filters, just because the value of the Sender: header changed with an upgrade. As one of the guys who is primarily responsible for the mailing lists used by thousands and thousands of people world-wide here on python.org, I would be strongly opposed to doing any kind of upgrade that would force that kind of behavior. And it would be a real shame if we couldn't eat our own dogfood with regards to Mailman. -- Brad Knowles b...@shub-internet.orgIf you like Jazz/RB guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxuhttp://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
