Re: [Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/29/2012 5:39 PM, Robert Braver wrote:
> 
> If there's anything in the content of the list messages that could
> be construed as an advertisement, the failure to have a one-click
> (or one email) unsubscribe is a violation of federal law (CAN-SPAM
> Act) and the FTC regulations promulgated thereunder.


As long as you don't set include_rfc2369_headers to No, there will be a
List-Unsubscribe: header with both a link to the list options page from
which you can unsubscribe and a mailto: link to send an unsubscribe
email. I don't know if these satisfy the requirements of the MAY-SPAM
act, but I'm not worried.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan



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Re: [Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[Robert Braver]

On Friday, June 29, 2012, 12:39:06 PM, Brad Rogers wrote:

BR> What's wrong with the current challenge and response method?  Stops
BR> people from maliciously (un)subscribing others.

If there's anything in the content of the list messages that could
be construed as an advertisement, the failure to have a one-click
(or one email) unsubscribe is a violation of federal law (CAN-SPAM
Act) and the FTC regulations promulgated thereunder.

This bugs me, too.

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 Robert Braver
 rbra...@ohww.norman.ok.us

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[Mark Sapiro]

David wrote:
>
>We usually see these one-click unsubscribe buttons on marketing newsletters
>and similar correspondence, but they don't seem to be a good option for a
>mailing list. (At least, I haven't figured out how to make it work in a way
>that would fit with the needs of a mailing list.)


The bigest problem with one-click unsubscribe links is that people
don't remove them from the quoted text in their list replies, and even
if code is added to the list post processing (e.g., a custom handler)
to remove them, people still forward list posts off list with their
unsub link intact and then wonder why they got removed from the list
when a recipient of the forward maliciously, out of curiosity or
thinking it's their link, clicks it.

It's fairly simple to create a one-click unsub link in msg_footer for
any list with personalize set to Yes or Full Personalization, but I
won't post it here because of the above and because it contains the
user's list password in the clear.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using with a database and *without* a webserver

[Geoff Shang]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012, Brad Knowles wrote:

So far as I know, there's no official way to use an SQL database with 
Mailman 2, although there is the MemberAdaptor that you found which is 
believed to work with MySQL.  If you'd like to modify the code to work 
with PostgreSQL instead, that would be great!


I would love to!  However, this is a time-sensitive deployment (they want 
it up by Monday), so making this change when we could simply just run 
MySQL instead doesn't really make sense.


Mailman 3 is intended to be the version that will officially integrate 
with other database technologies through standard Python interface, but 
it's still in early beta right now.


Yeah.  I'd love to run Mailman 3 up the stick and use that, but it's not 
quite ready and I'm certainly not ready enough to try to get it running 
reliably by Monday.


Mailman was not designed to be used exclusively from the command line. 
There are lots of admin functions that can't be done, or can't be easily 
done, without access to a web server.  Of course, that web server could 
always be locked away and accessible only to the admins, but then you 
kind of defeat the purpose of a lot of the Mailman self-provisioning 
functionality.


I thought as much.   Without going into details however, there are 
security considerations etc, and apparently addressing these is not 
straight-forward or timely.  So I may enable it and hide it away 
somewhere... I'll see what my employer wants.


Geoff.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using with a database and *without* a webserver

[Brad Knowles]

On Jun 29, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Geoff Shang wrote:

> First, databases.  We'd prefer to use PostgreSQL but I've not managed to find 
> any code for doing this.  We can use MySQL instead.  I found a guide at 
> http://loeki.tv/log/archives/81-Setting-up-Mailman-to-store-members-in-a-MySQL-database.html
>  which references files at 
> http://trac.rezo.net/trac/rezo/browser/Mailman/MySQLMemberAdaptor
> 
> Is this the best approach/patch to use?  Do people doing this use something 
> else?

So far as I know, there's no official way to use an SQL database with Mailman 
2, although there is the MemberAdaptor that you found which is believed to work 
with MySQL.  If you'd like to modify the code to work with PostgreSQL instead, 
that would be great!

Mailman 3 is intended to be the version that will officially integrate with 
other database technologies through standard Python interface, but it's still 
in early beta right now.

> As for the web stuff, are there things we need the web interface for or can 
> we do everything via the command line?  I'm thinking we probably need the web 
> UI for some things but don't recall exactly what.

Mailman was not designed to be used exclusively from the command line.  There 
are lots of admin functions that can't be done, or can't be easily done, 
without access to a web server.  Of course, that web server could always be 
locked away and accessible only to the admins, but then you kind of defeat the 
purpose of a lot of the Mailman self-provisioning functionality.

--
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

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[Mailman-Users] Using with a database and *without* a webserver

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

I've been contracted to do a Mailman setup for a company that wants to set 
up a newsletter-type list.  They'd like to use a database for the back-end 
and to hide as much of Mailman's internals as possible without creating 
too much work.


First, databases.  We'd prefer to use PostgreSQL but I've not managed to 
find any code for doing this.  We can use MySQL instead.  I found a guide 
at 
http://loeki.tv/log/archives/81-Setting-up-Mailman-to-store-members-in-a-MySQL-database.html 
which references files at 
http://trac.rezo.net/trac/rezo/browser/Mailman/MySQLMemberAdaptor


Is this the best approach/patch to use?  Do people doing this use 
something else?


As for the web stuff, are there things we need the web interface for or 
can we do everything via the command line?  I'm thinking we probably need 
the web UI for some things but don't recall exactly what.


Thanks,
Geoff.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Earthlink Feedback Loop

[Lindsay Haisley]

On Fri, 2012-06-29 at 11:57 -0600, Terry Earley wrote:
> We want to do all we can to protect our web reputation. We joined all the
> feedback loop services we could find. in addition to AOL, hotmail/msn and
> Yahoo, I found a list here and applied to others:
> http://www.emaillusions.com/2011/02/white-listing-and-isp-feedback-loops.html
> 
> I applied to Earthlink as directed, and when they did not respond, I sent a
> 2nd request, and got this reply:


This trend _really_ sucks!  The Big Guys are breaking the Internet mail
system by dividing it up into the "saved" and the "damned".  How much
longer will it be before we have to have state-issued licenses to
operate mail servers on the Internet, or else more likely, have to pay
exorbitant sums to these large corporations in order to be allowed to
send mail to their users?

I'm already finding that I have increasing difficulty of all kinds
delivering mail from the lists I host to various subscribers.  Email
either just plain doesn't make it, or it gets shunted off into a spam or
junk folder for no other reason than that the recipient's mail server
doesn't recognize the address.

This trend has already kicked in with regard to other services, such as
the registration of domain names.  Independent registrars now have to
pay tens of thousands of dollars annually to operate as registrars.  The
survivors are either affiliated with big organizations such as CORE, or
are the mega-bucks registrars such as GoDaddy.

It's no longer the kinder, gentler Internet I signed on to work with 15
years ago or so.  Trust, real creativity and cooperation - values which
made the Internet what it is today - are becoming increasingly hard to
find at the small business level at which I operate.


Terry, I'll bet if you found the right person at Earthlink and greased
the right palms with several hundred $$ you'd get whitelisted and
subscribed to their feedback loop with no problem.

-- 
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FMP Computer Services | --
512-259-1190  | Boycott Yahoo, RoadRunner, AOL
http://www.fmp.com| and Verison

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:51:51 -0400
"Brian Canty"  wrote:

Hello Brian,

>Hello - I was wondering if anyone has a way to provide subscribers a
>simple and easy way to unsubscribe from a mailing list.  I do not

What's wrong with the current challenge and response method?  Stops
people from maliciously (un)subscribing others.

> provide passwords, so I was wondering if there is a simple enter your
> email address box that I can include on a link in my footers?

This would be open to the abuse I mention above, unless a challenge was
sent out.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
What will you do when the gas taps turn?
The Gasman Cometh - Crass


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[Mailman-Users] Earthlink Feedback Loop

[Terry Earley]

We want to do all we can to protect our web reputation. We joined all the
feedback loop services we could find. in addition to AOL, hotmail/msn and
Yahoo, I found a list here and applied to others:
http://www.emaillusions.com/2011/02/white-listing-and-isp-feedback-loops.html

I applied to Earthlink as directed, and when they did not respond, I sent a
2nd request, and got this reply:

> Your request has been denied. It is EarthLink policy to only add ISPs and
> MSPs to our FBL service.
> Earthlink Network Abuse Team
>

That seems a little closed-minded. Why would they not want a mailman list
to be notified? Has anyone had any experience dealing with Earthlink on
this level?

Terry
FiEyes
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Re: [Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[David]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Dave Dewey  wrote:

>
> Quoting Brian Canty (bca...@apsa.org):
>
> > Hello - I was wondering if anyone has a way to provide subscribers a
> > simple and easy way to unsubscribe from a mailing list.  I do not
> > provide passwords, so I was wondering if there is a simple enter your
> > email address box that I can include on a link in my footers?
>
> Wouldn't that allow anyone to enter any email address in that box
> and unsubscribe them?
>

That's correct, and that's usually the problem. There is more than one way
to do this with Mailman, but on a mailing list, it means that any user
could unsubscribe any other user.

We usually see these one-click unsubscribe buttons on marketing newsletters
and similar correspondence, but they don't seem to be a good option for a
mailing list. (At least, I haven't figured out how to make it work in a way
that would fit with the needs of a mailing list.)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[Dave Dewey]

Quoting Brian Canty (bca...@apsa.org):

> Hello - I was wondering if anyone has a way to provide subscribers a
> simple and easy way to unsubscribe from a mailing list.  I do not
> provide passwords, so I was wondering if there is a simple enter your
> email address box that I can include on a link in my footers?

Wouldn't that allow anyone to enter any email address in that box
and unsubscribe them?
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[Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[Brian Canty]

Hello - I was wondering if anyone has a way to provide subscribers a
simple and easy way to unsubscribe from a mailing list.  I do not
provide passwords, so I was wondering if there is a simple enter your
email address box that I can include on a link in my footers?

 

Thanks in advance.

Brian Canty

Manager, Computer Information Services

American Psychoanalytic Associaiton

(212) 752-0450 x17

 

www.apsa.org

 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Default "From" field

[Mark Sapiro]

Stewart Hamling wrote:

>Thanks very much Mark, that answered my question.
>Will mailman allow me to send attachments to a list?


What will or won't be accepted by a Mailman list depends entirely on
the list's Content filtering settings. See the list's web admin
Content filtering page.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Default "From" field

[Stewart Hamling]

Thanks very much Mark, that answered my question.
Will mailman allow me to send attachments to a list?

Thanks again,
Stewart.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 7:19 AM
To: s.haml...@internode.on.net; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Default "From" field

Stewart Hamling wrote:
>
>Is it possible to have the "From" field reflect the name of the sender
only?
>
>Currently, the "From" field reads as follows:
>
>From: "abrcboard-boun...@abrc.com.au [mailto:abrcboard-boun...@abrc.com.au]
>On Behalf Of
>
>Hamling, Stewart S"


See the FAQ at 


>Also, is it possible when an email is received, that list members can see
>the names of all other list members receiving the same email?


No.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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