Re: [Mailman-Users] cannot get local connection to an openbsd 6.0 install
On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 05:33:31PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 02/02/2017 12:21 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote: Thanks for prompt reply Mark Sorry for hijacking someone else's thread ... > > > > I am building an openbsd 6.0 server utilising their httpd http server. > > > > I am trying to connect locally but get a 500 Internal Server Error. Thus > > I am connecting and thus have the correct path in httpd.conf I also > > believe I have other details correct in httpd.conf (location, fastcgi, > > root) and slowcgi is running. However and whatever I cannot get a > > mailman page. > > > Are there any log messages from the server saying what exception or > whatever is happening in the CGI script. There was, so I am now tailing log files > > This might be something as simple as a group mismatch error in Mailman's > CGI wrappers. /var/log/maillog showed: Mailman cgi-wrapper (admin): Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the CGI wrapper script to be executed by a member of the "_mailmanq" group I changed the links owner/group to _mailman / _mailmanq the message above has disappeared, but slowcgi complains that : execve //mailman is a directory (slowcgi is fastcgi to cgi wrapper server, and adjunct to openbsd's httpd) ... but I still get the 500 Internal Server Error If no obvious candidate for inspection, maybe I should reinstall the Mailman package and start afresh :( Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] cannot get local connection to an openbsd 6.0 install
Hi, I am building an openbsd 6.0 server utilising their httpd http server. I am trying to connect locally but get a 500 Internal Server Error. Thus I am connecting and thus have the correct path in httpd.conf I also believe I have other details correct in httpd.conf (location, fastcgi, root) and slowcgi is running. However and whatever I cannot get a mailman page. I can access a static index.html fine, no issue. I suspect some type of permissions problem but can't really say that I have narrowed it down to that. I have put individual links to the /usr/local/lib/mailman/bin scripts in /var/www/mailman to get started with down at the /usr/ end perms are rwxr-sr-x and owned by mailman up at the /var/www/ end perms are rwxr-sr-w and owned by root If any one has any experience in the openbsd setup (and I am staying with the chrooted httpd setup) then I'd be grateful for any pointers. Else I have found an online reference to running same but not chrooted. Since I open my pages for subscription online I am not keen to follow this. But I might just to see it work. anotheranne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
if this is a duplicate, my error, don't see my post anywhere. see below On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 05:19:35PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 05/01/2014 11:31 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: I still have dyndns addresses showing on the numeric/alpha address listing both locally and from outside I do not understand the numeric/alpha address listing The 0-9A-Z table of members under Membership Management - sorry if unclear. Where specifically do you see these? I have changed DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py appropriately, cleared the browser caches. Where can this be dyndns be hiding, or is it time to run the fix_url script? Probably. See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9. This did however resolve the issue with thanks Anne -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 05:19:35PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 05/01/2014 11:31 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: I still have dyndns addresses showing on the numeric/alpha address listing both locally and from outside I do not understand the numeric/alpha address listing I was not clear there, I meant the 0-9, A-Z tabular listing of members under Membership Management / Membership List. Where specifically do you see these? I have changed DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py appropriately, cleared the browser caches. Where can this be dyndns be hiding, or is it time to run the fix_url script? Probably. See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9. That is a clear exposition of the issue, I will go that route. many thanks Anne -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
Hello, Mark, A year has gone by and the system has run well. This was with the ip address set for users on the network in the 'hosts' file and with the 'absolute=1' setting in admindb.py Recently I changed my dns provider (from dyndns to activedns) and was back reviewing what had happened here because I was again having the same issues. obviously I had not handled it correctly In the end I changed the code in admindb.py from absolute to relative (deleted all instances of 'absolute=1', changed 'hosts' file to show the activedns address but I still have dyndns addresses showing on the numeric/alpha address listing both locally and from outside I have changed DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py appropriately, cleared the browser caches. Where can this be dyndns be hiding, or is it time to run the fix_url script? regards Anne On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 4/14/2013 10:13 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: I have tried that with partial success, but there is another odd unmentioned behaviour that I have/had to cope with. When I click on a 0-9A-Z link I am dumped outside back at the login window. When I log in a second time I am presented with the list of members that I wanted in the first place, subsequent queries work first time. Similarly when I need to moderate a message. If I understand correctly, this is what's happening in those cases. You have a /etc/hosts or whatever to direct the 'outside' host to the 'inside' host. You go to the admin or admindb page via an 'inside' URL (probably a bookmark) and log in. Once there, relative links work fine. You go to a link with an absolute URL. This points to the 'outside' host which as far as your browser is concerned is not the host that set the authentication cookie so it is not returned to the 'outside' host and you have to log in again. Once you have logged in once for each host, you are authenticated for the rest of the browser session. The answer is if you have /etc/hosts or whatever routing the 'outside' host to the 'inside' host, never go to the 'inside' host (fix your bookmarks to point to the 'outside' host name). At the moment removing the 'absolute=1' entries does the job 100%. If you do notice any issues related to this, please let me know. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
Hi, Mark, read below. On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 4/14/2013 10:13 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: I have tried that with partial success, but there is another odd unmentioned behaviour that I have/had to cope with. When I click on a 0-9A-Z link I am dumped outside back at the login window. When I log in a second time I am presented with the list of members that I wanted in the first place, subsequent queries work first time. Similarly when I need to moderate a message. If I understand correctly, this is what's happening in those cases. You have a /etc/hosts or whatever to direct the 'outside' host to the 'inside' host. You go to the admin or admindb page via an 'inside' URL (probably a bookmark) and log in. Once there, relative links work fine. You go to a link with an absolute URL. This points to the 'outside' host which as far as your browser is concerned is not the host that set the authentication cookie so it is not returned to the 'outside' host and you have to log in again. Once you have logged in once for each host, you are authenticated for the rest of the browser session. The answer is if you have /etc/hosts or whatever routing the 'outside' host to the 'inside' host, never go to the 'inside' host (fix your bookmarks to point to the 'outside' host name). I had attacked this by a circuitous route, putting the ip address in the bookmark because I did not have an entry in /etc/hosts. When I got to putting an entry in /etc/hosts I did not change the bookmark. So ... Yes, that is totally correct. I am leaving it like that for the moment to ensure there are no issues, and I can modify my FAQ 4.88 to reflect this. Whatever else, for any one implementing a relay server it seems the best way rather than have them editing away at key coding files. At the moment removing the 'absolute=1' entries does the job 100%. If you do notice any issues related to this, please let me know. I will return to this configuration in a short while and will report on any issues or lack thereof. thanks for all the time taken Anne -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
Hello, Mark. I have tried that with partial success, but there is another odd unmentioned behaviour that I have/had to cope with. When I click on a 0-9A-Z link I am dumped outside back at the login window. When I log in a second time I am presented with the list of members that I wanted in the first place, subsequent queries work first time. Similarly when I need to moderate a message. I am not sure under what exact conditions this happens, even if it is consistent across the 3 machines that could be used. So will try and determine a consistent set of circumstances under which this occurs. At the moment removing the 'absolute=1' entries does the job 100%. Anne On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 01:35:34PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: Mark Sapiro wrote: So I would say in your case, you can probably safely remove them all, but in terms of what I might do for a bug and fix, I may not do the one in handle_no_list(). I was going to file a bug and 'fix' this, but I have instead asked a question on mailman-developers. See http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2013-April/022761.html for that post and what I'm concerned about. In the mean time, it occurred to me that possibly you could fix this without changing Mailman simply by putting an appropriate entry in /etc/hosts on your 'inside the lan' work station. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its ownnetwork
Hello, Mark,
This action solved the stated problem but now I note that the same
situation pertains in Tend to pending moderator requests where
held messages cannot be read or actioned.
Also Go to list archives. (we do not have this running). The other two
links are fine.
I see three more 'absolute=1' entries in admindb.py - shall I change all
three?
regards
Anne
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:00:50PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote:
What we need to do is figure out why those few URLs on the Membership
List page are absolute. It may be a bug. I'll look at that.
There are two places in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py where it requests absolute
URLs. The relevant code bits are
def membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form):
# Show the main stuff
adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
...
and
def password_inputs(mlist):
adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
The first of these affects the 'letter/digit' links on the membership
ant the action for the Search, Submit Your Changes and Set buttons,
and the second affects (I think) only the link to the general options
section on the Passwords page.
I see no reason why these need to be absolute URLs. You could just
change the two mlist.GetScriptURL lines to
adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin')
and I think that would fix it. If you wouldn't mind trying this and
reporting, I'd appreciate it and if it seems OK, I'll file a bug and
change it for 2.1.16.
There may be some http/https issue around this, but offhand, I can't
think why.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
Mark, hello,
Actually there were 5 'absolute=1' entries in admindb.py and changing
them all has resolved the issue of pending moderator request, but the
list archives remains absolute.
Awaiting your official confirmation on which entries to change.
Anne
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 02:25:10PM +0200, Anne Wainwright wrote:
Hello, Mark,
This action solved the stated problem but now I note that the same
situation pertains in Tend to pending moderator requests where
held messages cannot be read or actioned.
Also Go to list archives. (we do not have this running). The other two
links are fine.
I see three more 'absolute=1' entries in admindb.py - shall I change all
three?
regards
Anne
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:00:50PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote:
What we need to do is figure out why those few URLs on the Membership
List page are absolute. It may be a bug. I'll look at that.
There are two places in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py where it requests absolute
URLs. The relevant code bits are
def membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form):
# Show the main stuff
adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
...
and
def password_inputs(mlist):
adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
The first of these affects the 'letter/digit' links on the membership
ant the action for the Search, Submit Your Changes and Set buttons,
and the second affects (I think) only the link to the general options
section on the Passwords page.
I see no reason why these need to be absolute URLs. You could just
change the two mlist.GetScriptURL lines to
adminurl = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin')
and I think that would fix it. If you wouldn't mind trying this and
reporting, I'd appreciate it and if it seems OK, I'll file a bug and
change it for 2.1.16.
There may be some http/https issue around this, but offhand, I can't
think why.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
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[Mailman-Users] accessing relay mailman server from its own network
Hello, My mailing lists run on a relay server installed as per FAQ 4.88 Accessing the web interface across the internet works fine but accessing while on the host network is not so fine. Instead of the DSL (dyndns) address I use the server name or IP address and all goes fine unless I query the mailing list addresses. Then i am returned to login again and so on ad infinitum. Same if I try to list them. I note that when I mouse-over the menu options the browser bottom line shows the server name (or IP) address that I have used. When I mouse-over the 0-9A-Z membership listing then the DSL forwarding address shows. FAQ 4.29 would indicate that I could change the DEFAULT_URL_HOST setting for existing lists using fix_url.py - in this case perhaps to the IP address? I suppose that would foul up admin access from across the internet but as that is only me we could live with that. Before fools rush in where angels fear to tread - is this the way to go? Maybe there is a route to have the best of both worlds (easy access from the internet and the local network) many thanks in advance anotheranne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam?
Hi, On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 09:33:03PM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote: On May 18, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Anne Wainwright wrote: For the record the following URL is of interest http://www.spamhaus.org/consumer/definition/ This clearly makes the point that spam is defined by two factors A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk and being who they are their definition must carry some weight. In terms of their definition my mailing was not spam. Still, and I think Stephen made the point, there is also the consideration of good business practice to be considered. Actually, if you go back to Mark's message where he said: As an additional FYI in this thread, Mailman sends invitations with a Precedence: bulk header. This can only be changed by modifying code. Thanks for clarifying that, Brad, I wasn't sure what the import of Mark's messsage was. Why would this not be set to 'list' rather than 'bulk'? Just interested bestest Anne Then you will note that the message you sent does actually qualify on both counts -- it was most definitely unsolicited (by your own account), and unless you modified the source code then Mailman definitely marked those invitations as bulk. Even if Mailman hadn't marked the messages as bulk per se, if you sent out invitations to more than one person, then that could also be classified as essentially being bulk. There are features in Mailman that can be misused and abused in a wide variety of ways, and it is the responsibility of the Site Administrator(s) and the List Administrator(s) to make sure that they operate the software in an appropriate manner. For example, if you were using Mailman internally to your company and could guarantee that no one could ever get on any list unless they were an employee, then by the terms of the employment contract you might be able to do things that might otherwise be considered of a spammy nature, like requiring that all employees be subscribed to certain lists that they can't unsubscribe from, sending out invitations to join mailing lists that they did not request, etc…. We have to allow for these kinds of things because not everyone uses Mailman in the same way for the same user community. And some types of actions are appropriate for certain user communities but not for others. We can't just disable or remove features simply because they are not appropriate for a particular user community. In essence, you're asking us to protect you against yourself, and there is a limit to how much of that we can do. At least, there is a limit to how much we can do if we want to keep the software usable for other people. -- Brad Knowles b...@shub-internet.org LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam?
Hi, Have been offline for a goodly while hence tardy response to the thread that I started. comments lower down, but thanks to Brad, Richard, Mark, Stephen for their input. On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 12:33:24AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Anne Wainwright anothera...@fables.co.za wrote: I recently sent an invite to an unknown third party. Normally I agree with Brad Knowles on this kind of thing, but this time I can't go 100%. People regularly do make contacts with third parties that they have not previously met, with the intent of arranging mutually beneficial activities. Heck, if you think about it, that's what you're doing every time you make a first post to a mailing list. There is nothing wrong with that in general, and there is nothing (morally) wrong with that when done by email, to recipients carefully selected for high probability of getting some interest. (From this point of view, double opt in is just a useful, fail-safe litmus test for recipient interest, not the moral imperative some seem to think it is.) Obviously you think your mailing has passed that test. That said, it's bad business IMO (except in cases like a double opt-in mailing list where every person has explicitly indicated interest in receiving list posts). What *you* think isn't what really matters. When done by mutual acquaintance, by phone, or even by form letter, there are significant costs to making such contacts, especially when you do the phoning yourself. You must really value the recipient to go to such expense, even if small. There are no such costs to email, which means that using email as a medium puts you in company with some real scum, who send out unsolicited email indiscriminately, sometimes laden with malware or phishing URLs. It's unfair, I suppose, but I'm not surprised if you get classed with the scum on the basis of the only information the recipient has about you as a businessperson: an email that they didn't ask for. There's another problem. The ISPs are a pretty quick-on-the-trigger bunch, too, as a couple of posters have noted. But if you're not running a double opt-in list, you're not going to be able to get them to change your minds about your list. Everything I know about them, they'd rather lose half their clients' mail than get a complaint about spam. And their customers are not well-informed enough to doubt the ISPs when they blame somebody else for any problems with mail. Except spam -- it's obvious to the customer that the spam is bogus, why is it so hard for the ISP? You see their incentive, I suppose, and it works against legitimate businesses unless they follow the ISPs' rules. I conclude that for an honest business, anything is a better way than email to make first contact with a third party who doesn't know you. I have sinned and stand repentant. I hate spam as much as anyone and we get plenty to deal with. Somehow the Viagra and get rich emails didn't seem to stand on the same level as a once-off invite. But as pointed out clearly an unasked for email from an unknown party is just that. In the light of the spam that we receive, which varies from worldwide mass mailings (viagra supplies from pharmacies in the USA, say) to lesser attempts (local suppliers of this that product or service) there is no fuzzy line where the definition of spam rests, and much against my normal judgement where I see things in shades of grey, I am forced to make this a black and white decision on the basis of the definitions of spam made in the replies. So will make sure that this doesn't occur again and will make clear the distinction to other staff handling these issues. As an aside, I have to ask whether the 'invite' feature in Mailman has a function. If one has to have been in existing contact such that you can ask them if they would not object to an invite then one is in fact at the point where you can ask them point blank if you can subscribe them. Typically someone may query whether we have a specific book title, or whether one listed on an online catalogue is still available. The usual drill if this is unavailable is to say so and then recommend that they join our mailing list for which we will send details (an 'invite') on the basis that it may show up on a future catalogue. I do not see this as sending spam. Maybe you differ? I guess this may be considered a bit off-topic, comments welcome direct if you feel this is so. bestest Anne Regards, Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za
Re: [Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam?
Hi, For the record the following URL is of interest http://www.spamhaus.org/consumer/definition/ This clearly makes the point that spam is defined by two factors A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk and being who they are their definition must carry some weight. In terms of their definition my mailing was not spam. Still, and I think Stephen made the point, there is also the consideration of good business practice to be considered. over out for tonight. Anne On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 09:39:44AM +0200, Anne Wainwright wrote: Hi, I recently sent an invite to an unknown third party. The invite came from my mailman list, we gave full particulars of who and where we are. We specifically advise that they are not at this stage subscribed to anything and will have to follow the detailed instructions (ie confirm) if they want to join the list. The third party is in the same trade as us, and deals with the same specialities, a third party customer had given me their address in good faith. This week my ISP contacts me with an upstream request from the national backbone provider to in effect desist from sending spam. Looking at the email returned, it was to an @yahoo address, spamcop seems to have detected spam on the basis of it being a mailman message, I am not certain that it was not initiated by the recipient but the official complaint originated from yahoo it seems (who should surely know better). Subject: [196.26.208.190] Yahoo Abuse Report - FW:confirm 3a35c56b531368da533112d96a9cb24c17cf6961 As I said in my reply, this is hardly spam, I did not send it out to half a million addresses purchased on a cd. This makes a mockery of genuine spam prevention efforts when one email from a genuine address can be allowed to cause this. It I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but what can I do about this. Is this a common occurence? Are invites from mailman now considered fair game for spam detection software and humans alike? bestest Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] what constitutes spam?
Hi, I recently sent an invite to an unknown third party. The invite came from my mailman list, we gave full particulars of who and where we are. We specifically advise that they are not at this stage subscribed to anything and will have to follow the detailed instructions (ie confirm) if they want to join the list. The third party is in the same trade as us, and deals with the same specialities, a third party customer had given me their address in good faith. This week my ISP contacts me with an upstream request from the national backbone provider to in effect desist from sending spam. Looking at the email returned, it was to an @yahoo address, spamcop seems to have detected spam on the basis of it being a mailman message, I am not certain that it was not initiated by the recipient but the official complaint originated from yahoo it seems (who should surely know better). Subject: [196.26.208.190] Yahoo Abuse Report - FW:confirm 3a35c56b531368da533112d96a9cb24c17cf6961 As I said in my reply, this is hardly spam, I did not send it out to half a million addresses purchased on a cd. This makes a mockery of genuine spam prevention efforts when one email from a genuine address can be allowed to cause this. It I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but what can I do about this. Is this a common occurence? Are invites from mailman now considered fair game for spam detection software and humans alike? bestest Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] access to list url from own network
Hi, I am running mailman as a relay, it is installed on the office server. Access from outside the office (home) is fine. Access from the office network is problematic. It cannot be accessed using the dyndns address that I have. So I substitute the IP address of the server and can do most things like adding people to the membership list. But, when I search for an address then we get problems, it jumps out of using the IP address and back to the dyndns address, and we get no hits from our search, in fact no page. I guess this is not a mailman issue directly, but any hint as to a solution would be appreciated. Maybe an apache issue on which subject I am totally ignorant. Note, apache serves up to the /cgi-bin address which may or may not be of interest here. Thanks Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Issue with ISP limiting email
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 07:16:31AM -0800, scott ewing wrote: My ISP limits email sent from our server to 250 / hr. We have 258 subscribers to our list. They have recently upgraded the limit to 300 / hr. This means we can send out 1 email / hr Is this a one-way list? No? Does your daily email input exceed 27.91? In which case you have a problem. I would comment that 300/h is low, mine allows 2000/h There is a patch available to mailman that will allow you to throttle the mailman output. See the url http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030607 This at least will automate the despatch process for you. You must be running Mailman as a relay, same as myself, and I find that this patch does the job with no fuss although a fix in postfix may be preferred if that is what you are using. regards Anne Does mailman offer any functionality to help with this problem? For example, we could approve the messages as they come in and mailman could send them out as allowed? As of now, we have to remember when the last email was approved for distribution. Kinda cumbersome all around. Sincerely, Scott Ewing s...@prodigy.net -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/anotheranne%40fables.co.za -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Pegasus Mail does not show message except as anattachment
Hello, Mark, On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:15:04 -0800 Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: Anne Wainwright wrote: This occurs on one list that I administer. In fuller detail we have two issues. Members want to send .doc file attachments, (and html emails too) and of course have them arrive. If I have content filtering on which allows .doc file attachments then members using Pegasus Mail complain that the message does not show up on page 1 as it were and has to be found among the tree of attachments. Under different content filtering Pegasus Mail users can be satisfied to see the message on page 1 as it were, but the .doc attachments are no longer there for any one to see. Is there a msg_header defined for the list. If so, it will be added as the first text/plain message part which some MUAs will call the body. It may look empty but contain white space. If you want the message header, see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9. Yes, there was, and I removed both headers and footers since the membership on this list is static and the info given is really cosmetic only. Based upon limited postings today this has had beneficial results for those that I spoke to. I read the faq which is clear but which I would not have picked up on from the title as a guide to any solution. regards Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Pegasus Mail does not show message except as an attachment
Hello, Dennis, On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:07:59 -0800 (PST) Dennis Carr dennistheti...@chez-vrolet.net wrote: On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, Anne Wainwright wrote: Hi, This occurs on one list that I administer. In fuller detail we have two issues. Members want to send .doc file attachments, (and html emails too) and of course have them arrive. If I have content filtering on which allows .doc file attachments then members using Pegasus Mail complain that the message does not show up on page 1 as it were and has to be found among the tree of attachments. Under different content filtering Pegasus Mail users can be satisfied to see the message on page 1 as it were, but the .doc attachments are no longer there for any one to see. Just one question, does the message consist entirely of the aforementioned content? The message is separate from the .doc file and is explanatory in nature relating to, say, a complex legal .doc file with annotations. As you will see from my reply to Mark I am hopeful that removing header and footer text has resolved the issue. The header was shown as the message and the message as an attachment. So fingers crossed. Also, note that I've seen Sylpheed basically choke on a message if the message was HTML only with no straight text as well - normally this happens in attachment view. I haven't used Pmail in years, so I don't remember if the layout is anything similar. I also have Claws lockups but never found out why. Most unladylike as even the Force Quit button is rendered nonop. PMail is way ahead of Sylpheed or its more popular cousin Claws in terms of features. With a floating window structure I would not say it resembled either. It is my own favourite on Win for handling heavy mail loads, but then I am only just looking at mutt and never have seen alpine! More like Mark's Popcorn from a look at his screenshot. thanks Anne -Dennis -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Pegasus Mail does not show message except as an attachment
Hi, This occurs on one list that I administer. In fuller detail we have two issues. Members want to send .doc file attachments, (and html emails too) and of course have them arrive. If I have content filtering on which allows .doc file attachments then members using Pegasus Mail complain that the message does not show up on page 1 as it were and has to be found among the tree of attachments. Under different content filtering Pegasus Mail users can be satisfied to see the message on page 1 as it were, but the .doc attachments are no longer there for any one to see. I can see the messages plain and clear in Claws email and the .doc files are of course shown as attachments. I conclude that Pegasus is somehow at fault in its display of the message as an attachment instead of as the body of the message (my terminology may be lacking here). I have searched but can find no answer, do other users find display issues of mailman content filtered posts with Pegasus Mail? If I have content filtering off, Pegasus Mail users suffer the same display issue. The list has run for years with no complaints. Recently the issue of sending .doc files has just been raised and it is the provision of pass rules that seem to put Pegasus users in a whirl. Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] bounces not getting through for processing
Hello, Mark, On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:15:29 -0700 Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: Anne Wainwright wrote: I queried this with my isp provider who queried it with IS (Internet Solutions, smtp server backbone provider) who said that ',' should work. That has me worried, did they misunderstand my query? I'm sure they misunderstood. ',' is a delimiter between email addresses, not a delimiter between a local part and a local part suffix in a single address. Right, it straightway plonks back a message about the address missing a '@' I'll have to adjust the regex given in the FAQ. Should I try this or is this so unusual as to be unlikely? I do have all 10 addresses now, just to be sure. OK. First make sure that the fables-list Bounce processing - bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner setting is Yes. Then send test messages via the relay server to fables-list-boun...@fables.co.za, fables-list-bounces+...@fables.co.za and fables-list-bounces-...@fables.co.za. These messages can be very simple, say both subject and body containing just 'test' or something similar. The message to fables-list-boun...@fables.co.za should definitely result in an unrecognized bounce notice to the list owner. One or both of the others may result in a rejection by the relay, but at least one may get relayed to the Mailman server and result in an unrecognized bounce notice to the list owner. If none get through, there is still a problem with the relay. If only the fables-list-boun...@fables.co.za message gets through, you can't use VERP. If one of the others gets through, you can use VERP with the corresponding delimiter. We can't use VERP as neither got through -bounces messages were being passed to /var/mail/sendmail and stacking up there. They indicated that there was no such address. I never did see the exact fault but it was likely something with the aliases as after checking, tidying, etc, all of a sudden we were up and running with bounce processing operational. All other addresses could be seen to be going, particularly noticeable being the -request address, but -bounces was not processed. Thank you for the help Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] bounces not getting through for processing
Hello, Mark, Thank you for detailed reply. I queried this with my isp provider who queried it with IS (Internet Solutions, smtp server backbone provider) who said that ',' should work. That has me worried, did they misunderstand my query? I'll have to adjust the regex given in the FAQ. Should I try this or is this so unusual as to be unlikely? I do have all 10 addresses now, just to be sure. I'll do a complete FAQ on this saga when I'm done! Anne On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:49:54 -0700 Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: Anne Wainwright wrote: Sorry if this is a bit vague. And my guesses at what's going on may be a bit vague too. I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'. I don't know about 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages', but see below. Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7: to=fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co...@fables.co.za, relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45, delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command)) The recipient here is fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co...@fables.co.za which smtp.isdsl.net thinks is an invalid address. Apparently smtp.isdsl.net is one of the names of one of the IPs of default-mx.imaginet.co.za which is the MX for the fables.co.za domain. (some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue) The address that smtp.isdsl.net thinks is invalid is fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co...@fables.co.za, not dmor...@inext.co.za. The most likely reason for this is that Postfix's main.cf on smtp.isdsl.net (if the MTA on smtp.isdsl.net is Postfix) is lacking recipient_delimiter = + This is required for VERP to work with the default delimiter (+). It tell Postfix that the recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za is actually fables-list-bounces. Without this, Postfix attempts to deliver to the full VERPed recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za which is invalid. Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were left in the same situation as described here. Then there's more to it than what I'm saying. Does smtp.isdsl.net (and the other relays) know how to deliver or relay to all 10 of the fables-list addresses including fables-list-bounces, fables-list-confirm, fables-list-request, fables-list-owner, fables-list-join, fables-list-leave, fables-list-subscribe and fables-list-unsubscribe? There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no bounce information when I ran it after the run. Because none of the bounce DSNs ever got delivered to Mailman. [...] Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No bounce mail passed through there. I'm not sure what you're saying, but I would expect something in the MTA log of smtp.isdsl.net at Oct 30 16:02:39 because there was at least a connect, a MAIL FROM and a RCPT TO from jason. OTOH, if all you are saying is that no mail was relayed to fables-list-bounces@, that's because it was all rejected at the relay. Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty. Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded, are then not processed. ??? Right. They get rejected as undeliverable by smtp.isdsl.net, either because it doesn't know how to relay for listname-boun...@fables.co.za or it doesn't recognize that listname-bounces+...@fables.co.za should be relayed the same as listname-boun...@fables.co.za. If it's the latter, and you don't control the MTA there and can't teach it that '+' is a valid separator between a local part and a suffix, it might recognize '-' in this role in which case see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/D4CE. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] bounces not getting through for processing
Hi, Sorry if this is a bit vague. I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'. Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7: to=fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co...@fables.co.za, relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45, delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command)) (some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue) Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were left in the same situation as described here. There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no bounce information when I ran it after the run. anne@jason:~ ssh$ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -r get_bounce_info fables-list Importing get_bounce_info... Running get_bounce_info.get_bounce_info()... Loading list fables-list (unlocked) Bounce info for fables-list list -- -- Finalizing ditto bounce results for a small test list as well which has deliberate dud addresses on. Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No bounce mail passed through there. Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty. Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded, are then not processed. ??? regards Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] throttling mailman for a relay smtp server
Hello, Mark, in essence this has worked well and I did not exceeded the limits given for the smtp connection. I retained use of Postfix relaying to the isp's smtp server purely because it is going as is. No idea of whether setting SMTPHOST = smtp.myisp.com would be what I should do to any advantage but since it wasn't broken I didn't fix it. Now the question of the initial settings for the throttle patch: THROTTLE_TIME = 60 THROTTLE_LIMIT = 20 (since upped nearer to stated limit for 60s) so tailing the log I see them leaving in batches of 20. ie 20 messages in 60 seconds, no problem Our most common local domain is telkomsa.net and when I see one of those picked up in the batch of 20 the following messages in that batch were all to that domain. The setting for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 50 Am I right that this would be the max number of telkomsa.net messages that could be grouped together to that domain? (I don't know how this works but imagine that you can send one message bagged with multiple addresses to one domain) Therefore as I understand this, no point in having SMTP_MAX_RCPTS THROTTLE_LIMIT as in the example given the result would be unchanged from setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 20 Is my understanding correct? Anne On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:20:21 -0700 Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 10/16/2011 6:09 AM, Anne Wainwright wrote: 2. I see a patch for SMTPDirect that looks like it might be good and perhaps an easier route It should work. 3. Then I see Mailman FAQ 4.72 How do I configure Mailman to use an external SMTP server? 4. confusion because this says In mm_cfg.py add or modify: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' SMTPHOST = 'mail.example.com' and they are not in my mm_cfg.py and anyway we are running with postfix SMTPDirect is the default. See Defaults.py. The default for SMTPHOST is 'localhost', i.e. your Postfix. If you override this in mm_cfg.py, you are saying connect to port 25 of whatever host you specify to send the mail rather than your own Postfix. ??? does SMTPDirect replace having postfix do the smtp-ing? No. SMTPDirect is the Mailman module that delivers to your Postfix (or to SMTPHOST) via SMTP. There is no viable alternative - the 'Sendmail' module is NOT recommended. ??? the patch patches SMTPDirect so it won't do anything if I do not explicitly declare it in mm_cfg.py? Wrong. SMTPDirect is the default handler. ??? what will happen then? ??? should I just patch it anyway and it will go for me? Probably. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digests and HTML-enhanced email
Dear Lindsay, perhaps I can make an input to this thread since I was about to post something similar. If my comments are incorrect, please advise since I have no desire to mislead any one. We, too, have a load of old dinosaurs on one list who always manage to post to wrong addresses and whose posts are of often rejected. Getting the plain-text gospel across is hard. Outside of digests, of which I know nothing, I see two approaches. One aimed at getting plain text conformity from member input and the other at getting plain text readability from Mailman output. The first is reflected in the users FAQ 3.10 How to enforce a text-plain policy. The answer being with difficulty because this option probably (as I read it) ensures that any message with non-plain-text content is completely, utterly, and totally, rejected, even if plain-text is present, rejecting all non-conformist messages and requiring you to drill your recipients into plain-text submission. The second is Content Filtering. I understand that this is to remove objectionable content types, and steamroller the rest into conformity as plain-text. It appears not to be 'on' by default. With a number of lists running I had played about with these items, but we have a residual core of trouble. I have just (read last night) reverted to switching Content Filtering 'on' with the default settings and will monitor results closely. The lists are now set identically in this regard. Text-plain enforcement policies are not in place at present. Anne On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:21:09 -0500 Lindsay Haisley fmouse-mail...@fmp.com wrote: I host a list for about 700 autoharp musical enthusiasts on Mailman 2.1.12. The subscribers are by and large somewhat elderly and non techie, and to most of them an explanation of the difference between HTML-enhanced email and plain text email would be unintelligible geek-speak. I recently received the following email from one of the subscribers: Scrubbed messages as they appear in my cyberpluckers DIGESTS: This type of problem is perhaps a bit over 6 months old, and evidently is caused by the manner in which some people have tried to attach their message to their cyberplucker posting. How can this problem be resolved?THANKS ... Drew Smith *** Message: 25 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 08:42:29 -0700 From: foo bar ... To: cyberpluck...@autoharp.org Subject: Re: [CP] Intro Message-ID: a0ffed34-525e-40a5-88c6-4b78dbef2df8@blur Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.autoharp.org/mailman/blah/blah//attachment.html ... snip ... other examples I took a look at the list archive and indeed the email appears in the archives also with only a link to the attachment, which is the HTML-enhanced message, visible as HTML code. There's no plain text version in the archive. I explained to the subscriber, and to the list admins, that this (and similar) posts were probably HTML-only posts, and that, absent a plain text rendering in a multipart email, the list server had no way to generate a plain text version, and that including multiple HTML-enhanced emails in a digest was problematic and not going to work very well, if at all. The list admins are aware that plain text is the appropriate format for posting to a mailing list, but subscribers come and go from this list, and as I said, many don't understand such things, and it seems that there are a number of mail programs out there which will generate an HTML-enhanced email without an accompanying MIME text/plain version. The list is configured with mime_is_default_digest set to MIME, which I assume sends digests with each post as a separate attachment (I've never subscribed to the digest for this list, so I don't really know). I had assumed that this might address this problem, but apparently not. One of two things needs to happen. Either the list server should refuse and bounce posts with no MIME text/plain part, or some more intelligent configuration of Mailman needs to be available so that posts within a digest will render properly under these circumstances. Maybe a more recent version of Mailman can do this, I don't know. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I rather dislike HTML-enhanced email (to put it gently). There's no fixed standard for it, and what renders one way in one mail reader renders some other way in another mail reader, and it confuses the hell out of list servers. But people will use it, increasingly it seems, and insist on doing so, so somehow this kind of problem needs to be dealt with. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives:
Re: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 4.12 What about Verp as applicable to sending to a relay host
Hello, Ralf, Mark,. We running now, thanks for the help. I will send out on my large list over the w/e (splitting the membership just in case) and will report how the throttle patch performed. But on a small list we are up, up, away. I'll look at verp next, don't want to have to tweak anything else so if it's a standalone item to tick on/off as it were, then I'll do that. Lots of nice questions on your list, with nicer answers. no rtfm all the time. Anne On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:22:54 +0200 Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de wrote: * Anne Wainwright anothera...@fables.co.za: Hello, Not that I am going to switch on Verp, but ... I read this, and interesting sums there too. I note that Defaults.py still carries SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 despite good conclusions in the FAQ based upon a statistical analysis of a large mailing list user base that the sweet spot is likely between 2 and 5. Well, it doesn't hurt. Let the MTA do the sorting and splitting. In my case where I am relaying to the isp's smtp server I indeed do have all my posts to one domain and so I presume that a larger value could be appropriate? Yes. Given that they limit me to 100 recipients per smtp session it would seem that I should adjust this downwards to 100 (in mm_cfg.py) to avoid breaking this rule. Yep. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] throttling mailman for a relay smtp server
Hello, My isp decided to close his Mailman server, so you know the bit about fools and angels... Following the link below I got my list up and running only to find Mailman can send so many posts in so short a time that I overloaded my isp's smtp server with dire results :( http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/running_gnu_mailman_at_home (I found you have to add forwarding addresses and aliases for list-bounces which this article ignores) So Mailman 2.1.12 on ubuntu with fetchmail, postfix, smtp relay via isp OK, i have more names than a family list, so investigating ideas for throttling I am left confused. 1. I read Mailman FAQ 4.51 How do I limit the rate (throttle) at which Mailman sends mail? 2. I see the policyd link but this look a little complex (and scary) for my needs (2000 members, outgoing posts only, one per month tops, maybe switch on postfix/fetchmail/mailman only when needed) 2. I see a patch for SMTPDirect that looks like it might be good and perhaps an easier route 3. Then I see Mailman FAQ 4.72 How do I configure Mailman to use an external SMTP server? 4. confusion because this says In mm_cfg.py add or modify: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' SMTPHOST = 'mail.example.com' and they are not in my mm_cfg.py and anyway we are running with postfix ??? does SMTPDirect replace having postfix do the smtp-ing? ??? the patch patches SMTPDirect so it won't do anything if I do not explicitly declare it in mm_cfg.py? ??? what will happen then? ??? should I just patch it anyway and it will go for me? Someone please illuminate me a bit here on the true path ahead. thanks for any and all comments Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] FAQ 4.12 What about Verp as applicable to sending to a relay host
Hello, Not that I am going to switch on Verp, but ... I read this, and interesting sums there too. I note that Defaults.py still carries SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 despite good conclusions in the FAQ based upon a statistical analysis of a large mailing list user base that the sweet spot is likely between 2 and 5. In my case where I am relaying to the isp's smtp server I indeed do have all my posts to one domain and so I presume that a larger value could be appropriate? Given that they limit me to 100 recipients per smtp session it would seem that I should adjust this downwards to 100 (in mm_cfg.py) to avoid breaking this rule. Please tell me that I'm heading in the right direction here. bestest Anne -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
