[Mailman-Users] Re: Read-only File System

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 7/5/24 08:53, John wrote:
...

Mailman proved to have no problem writing to the relocated qfiles directory, 
and everything magically started working.


Did you try lsattr on the original files/dir?

Just curious,
Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com

[Mailman-Users] Re: Read-only file system

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 6/30/24 19:27, John wrote:


Does anyone have any experience with this issue, and a suggestion as to how to 
resolve it? We’ve tried everything we can think of, and madness is setting in.


What are you running on? "Read-only filesystem" with shell looking like 
everything's fine happens on dead drives and (more often) messed-up VM 
storage volumes. "Read-only" bit doesn't eve show up in `mount` when 
that happens, as I recall.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com

[Mailman-Users] Re: lots of bounces after server move

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 6/25/24 12:51, Jim Dory wrote:


2. SMTP: Reverse DNS doesn't match SMTP Banner (The SMTP banner issued 
by your email server did not contain the hostname we resolved for your 
server’s IP address.)


#2 - Reverse DNS - I have PTR records set for both compute.nkc.com 
(abbreviated) and nkc.com. So that could be a problem?




DNS is Evil. A host should not have more than one PTR because if it 
does, it's not clear which PTR will be returned by the nameserver. Ditto 
for A record, becasue teh one PTR can only match one of those -- but 
with something like unbound that doesn't support CNAMEs, you won't have 
much choice. And if you do have CNAMEs, the client has to do extra work 
to find the A and match it to the PTR -- if it cares.


I'm guessing they are flagging it because it *should* be playing nice 
and sending its A hostname that has a corresp. (one) PTR record, in the 
SMTP banner.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com

[Mailman-Users] Re: lots of bounces after server move

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 6/24/24 16:42, Jim Dory wrote:


550 5.4.1 Recipient address rejected: Access denied


This one could be because the recipient server doesn't like the new 
server IP.


We kept the same IP address, but the hostname of the domain did change. 
I just moved to a different server in the same hosting company.


That shouldn't cause a 550/5.1.4, but check where your new server is 
sending to (vs. old), port in particular: recipient server can have 
different ACLs on 25, 465, and 587.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: lots of bounces after server move

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 6/24/24 14:13, Jim Dory wrote:


550 5.4.1 Recipient address rejected: Access denied
and
552-5.2.2 The recipient's inbox is out of storage space and inactive.
and
550-5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist.


That's the recipient mail server. You'd want to look at its logs and/or 
talk to their postmaster.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Cloudmark blacklist

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 3/18/24 09:46, Jayson Smith wrote:

Hi,

Comcast/Charter (found out about that one Saturday night when trying to 
reply to a legit individual message) both reject the message as soon as 
a blocked server connects, you don't even get to say HELO. Microsoft, 
when they decide you're evil and put you on their internal blacklist, 
reject after Mail from:. I find these rejections quite annoying, because 
clearly this means their spam analytics software is missing out on a lot 
of details that could help them make a more informed decision about 
whether to accept the message.


That's the point of rejecting on HELO: you don't download megabytes of 
content and waste CPU cycles trying to make sense of it. It's a 
feature-not-a-bug.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com

[Mailman-Users] Re: Outlook blocked again, but strange response

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 3/12/24 11:40, Julian H. Stacey wrote:


I'm interested what independent mailman-users@ think on technical
issues of DKIM/SPF, but `advice' from fined monopolist google Not wanted.


Search RISKS archives around the time SPF was introduced, that's about 
the earliest discussion I know of.


Non-technically it's snake oil, obviously: nothing is stopping me from 
buying a domain (in "national alphabets", too, so there's no shortage of 
names) using a stolen credit card number, "protect it" so noting comes 
up in whois, add all the DMARC/DKIM/SPF records imaginable, and start 
spamming like there is no tomorrow. Once it's blacklisted by everyone: 
ditch it and buy another. Rinse, lather, repeat.


It's only stopping the small mom-and-pop spammers. And mailman users.

Dima


--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com

[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 2/12/24 10:32, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

On 2/12/2024 5:30 AM, Richard wrote:
That's just silly: We've had "diff" for over THREE full decades now, 
to say nothing of the variants.


And diff is going to fail for this, at least part of the time.


The obvious solution is to have an empty footer, then it doesn't matter 
how many times it gets attached. The problem is then reduced to 
stripping off people's signatures and, well, why is that an MLM 
software's job? MLM shouldn't screw with posters' content willy-nilly.


QED
Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 2/9/24 12:21, Mark Sapiro wrote:
...
You could try putting a `-- ` line at the beginning of the footer to 
make it look like a signature. At least some MUAs do not include 
signatures in quoted material in replies.


However if you have a signature and a footer, both delimited with "-- 
\n", what gets stripped off, if anything, is anybody's guess.

:(

Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Security features of Mailman

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 1/30/24 07:47, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

rich...@karmannghia.org writes:

...

  > Anyone who thinks their unencrypted emails are in any way secure on
  > the open internet is, unfortunately SADLY mistaken.

This is true.  Security by obscurity works up to a point, but if you
ever get targeted by the FBI you're toast.


Whereas anyone who thinks their encrypted-in-transit e-mails are in any 
way secure on gmail servers, is delusional. Google gives FBI access to 
mailboxes, and they won't ever tell you because gag orders (google it).


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Security features of Mailman

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 1/29/24 09:39, rich...@karmannghia.org wrote:


Steve, Sron, et al:

Regarding:

"ensur[ing] a safe environment for email discussions"

...I would hope that all netizens are fully aware (and obviously not all 
are) that there is not and cannot be such a thing as "safe environment 
for email discussions" ...


Given what a sentence like "ensur[ing] a safe environment for email 
discussions" means in the current US political climate, when I see 
something like that, I killfile the sender.


IJS,
Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Sharing PHP or Scripts to a list

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 11/22/23 10:33, Mark Sapiro wrote:
...
The web page created by pipermail encloses the body of the message in a 
 ...  block and html escapes it so any PHP, html tags, etc. 
will be displayed as written.




You could probably disable php handler in archives dir in the httpd 
config too, for the belt-and-suspenders approach, though the exact 
details would depend on whether it's on-prem, the versions and software 
used, etc. etc.


Dima



--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Making Sure a Weekly Digest is Just Weekly

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 11/4/23 14:22, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 11/4/23 11:27, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:


Ugh.  Dream Host does not give me cron job / command line access. I'll 
try begging them to do this, but more likely I'll have to manually 
release the Digest each week.



It is unlikely they will let you do this as it would affect all lists on 
the server, not just yours.



Google says dreamhost does let you create your own cron jobs, you just 
can't get to the "system" ones. You could probably make one that does 
what Mark described with curl or something: POST the config change to 
the admin page, POST the change-back a minute later.


It'd be even easier if `senddigest` had a command line argument like 
"--force", but alas.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Python 2.7.15, etc, vs Python3...

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2023-07-17 7:24 PM, rich...@karmannghia.org wrote:

P.S. It seems BIZARRE to me that we have the good ole cc and gcc that 
just work after however many decades


Well... they have flags that I think maybe will still let them compile 
K C. C++, OTOH, is in many respects worse than python, and yes: python 
2 and 3 can be *that* incompatible. Boost library that C++ standards 
committee made part of modern "standard c++" is worse.


Abandon hope
Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2023-07-17 4:36 PM, Steven Jones wrote:

Hi,

I feel the same way, hence still running Mailman2 (on RHEL8). It is simple and 
low CPU hit, however Red Hat stops it support in May 2024.

Containers are really useful where done well but I tried 2 or  times to get 
mailman3 going on RHEL9 with podman and even docker and failed.



IIRC the main problem with running mailman2 in a container is the 
aliases file that needs to execute mailman commands. I think it should 
probably work by replacing mailman commands in there with `docker exec ...`


I'm not running unix servers anymore and have nowhere to give that a try 
myself. I'm sure there be tentacles there that I am not thinking of.


Dima


--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: rebuilding and replacing.

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2023-05-05 2:57 PM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote:


All installed, created a new list... and stopped.  Not sure what I missed, but 
in 2.1.20, after a newlist is created, we get a block of all the required 
aliases to put in the /etc alias file


Back in centos 7 + postfix we'd have them in a separate file 
(mailman.aliases? -- something like that) that needed to be included in 
postfix config.


No idea what they did in RH8 though.

Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL -- Automatically Sending List to Spam Folder

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 10/20/2022 12:13 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:

Dima,

Well, no, I'm not sure...  This would be something approaching ironic. 
The group started out on Yahoo Groups, was there for 19 years, then its 
Yahoo that starts filtering the same group name they allowed for two 
decades.


Granted, it's not as bad as bayesexchsnge that one statistics professor 
at $work[-1] wanted -- for "Bayes exchange", -- but still, the chastity 
filters are artificially inteligent and machine-learned these days so...


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL -- Automatically Sending List to Spam Folder

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-10-19 3:44 PM, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote:
*It looks like AOL is now automatically adding our Clinicians Exchange 
list messages to the Spam Folder.


Are you sure it's not filtering on "s-ex"?

Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman2 issue - "Your message was rejected"

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-09-29 1:19 AM, Yuki Nie wrote:

Is there any other ways to check whether the issue is due to 
"member_moderation_action"?


I think if you add moderation messages and see if you get one in the 
bounce, that'll tell you if our suspicion is correct and it's bouncing 
due to a moderation action. Or not.


Dima


--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman2 issue - "Your message was rejected"

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-09-27 11:16 PM, Yuki Nie wrote:


default_member_moderation = True
member_moderation_action = 1  //# Note that for member_moderation_action, 
0==Hold, 1=Reject,



What do these do?

Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Search box for archives

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-09-11 8:58 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:


However, looking at the two files, I see references to:



I suppose in my case this too has to be modified to reflect the correct
path.
With my MM2 installed in /usr/local/mailman2/ the above path then should
become "/mailman/cgi-bin/search" ??


It references cgi-bin url in your httpd config. Or possibly DocumentRoot 
if you don't have a separate cgi-bin configured. Either way, url -> 
filesystem path mapping is in your httpd config.


Dima


--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: B.S. With Google Yellow Boxes and GNU Mailman

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-08-02 1:43 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
...

DKIM:?? 'FAIL' with domain gmail.com

...
> b) Anything I can ask Dream Host to do as they have admin rights on
> the server

Tell them you need a DKIM DNS record for clinicians-exchange.org. 
Hopefully that gets to someone who knows what it means and is able to 
work with you.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: group mismatch

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-05-16 3:31 PM, Bill Cole wrote:
...
SpamAssassin can be used as a milter during the SMTP transaction or as a 
filter in the delivery pipeline via a delivery agent like procmail. 
Using procmail is generally suboptimal, but it may be the only mechanism 
available for an end user to deploy SA for their own mail without root 
access.


You also get per-user thresholds and Bayes training etc.

Also: procmail is antique abandonware that no one should use in 2022, 
but it can be very hard to replace.


Courier maildrop works and has a somewhat saner syntax. However what 
does this have to do with mailman? -- IIRC I had to add an extra python 
file, edit something in another, and add a config setting, to have 
spamassassin work with MM2.


Dima



--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: illegal BOM

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-02-03 4:47 PM, Christian via Mailman-Users wrote:

Hello Mark Sapiro. On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 14:31:11 -0800, you wrote:

...

This is the only header in the message that looks suspicious. I
suspect the `?` characters are actually non-ascii characters in an
unencoded header and that's the problem.

...

Ah, I see - the ? in this part: " den ? [...]  Content analysis details" seems 
to replace a curly quote.

I’ll contact the provider whether it is possible to switch off the spam 
detection software for our lists.


It sounds like another Mac OSX "smart quotes" problem. The only known 
"proper" fix is to contact the poster and tell them to reconfigure all 
their text editing software (and the mailer) to not use "smart quotes", 
"typographer's quotes", and/or whatever they may be called in that 
particular OSX version.

:(

Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman data backup

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2022-01-25 5:27 PM, Steven Jones wrote:

Hi,

Also the way I understand how MTAs work is postfix or whatever you are using 
should hold the email if Mailman is offline while you are backing up?  Once 
mailman is backup postfix should deliver?



If the MDA returns a temporary failure and the message is queued for 
local delivery. That is how it should be normally set up, but there's 
all kinds of "normal" out there.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: What to do when hosting providers frequently gets listed on an RBL

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2021-06-05 3:31 PM, Christian Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:

Hello Mark Sapiro. On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 12:44:52 -0700, you wrote:


In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with
an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian
recently died from a COVID virus infection.


This is too bad news - was it mentioned in this list before?

I would like to express my condolences to his family and to all who knew him!


Same here, sorry to hear this.

Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: GNU Mailman condemns reinstatement of RMS

[dmitri maziuk]

IANA healthcare professional, but this one obviously is... inappropriate 
for technical list. Could we possibly moderate s/h/it away?


On 2021-04-13 8:01 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:


So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013



In fact, without Richard, it is not far to think there would be no women in the 
movement, and certainly no gays or transexuals.

- RI Safir 2021



--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: MM2: Archive search function for a private list?

[dmitri maziuk]

On 2021-03-29 1:00 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:


There is an up to date branch at
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ that
integrates the htdig  search engine with
Mailman 2.1.


A bit "heavier" and batteries not included, but I was thinking of 
pulling my mailboxes into Solr. It comes with a "sample" search UI that 
may be sufficient.


Haven't gotten a round tuit yet though.

Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/19/2020 11:50 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote:


I'm pretty sure that's pure FUD.  I'm not the expert on mailman that most
of you are, but I can think of no reason for mailman itself to ever speak
HTTP or SMTP, and therefore no reason for it to need to do TLS.  I'd be
very surprised at anyone running a mailman setup where there wasn't a web
server and an MTA sitting between mailman and the rest of the Internet.  Am
I wrong about that?


IMO a lot of this crap comes from the Knee-Jerk Security Department 
fueled by Google's "our data collection is secure by default" PR. It is 
for many practical purposes FUD but since the huge scary "Insecurity! 
Run! Run Away!" dialog box is now built into every client app and most 
users don't know any better, we're SOL.


This is why the "I won't ever need any new features in MM2" stance is 
not realistic: *I* may not, but it's not up to me.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/17/2020 3:59 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:


...  The writing has been on the wall
for Python2 for nearly ten years.  The EOL date has already been
extended five years.  It's time to let it go.



The big concern du jour in science community is: can you take your 
scripts from 10 years ago and re-run them, and will you get the same 
groundbreaking result that you published back then if so. That's the 
main motivation for singularity, among other things.


So no: you can't let it go. You can freeze-dry it in a container, and 
nobody will probably ever try to reproduce that old junk, but if you do 
"let it go" consider this: the next vaccine that gets injected in your 
bloodstream may have originated with a trivial bug in someone's 10yo 
python script, and the only way you find out is when you die in horrible 
pain.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Archive Issue

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/17/2020 1:50 PM, Dennis Putnam wrote:


admin(24458): OSError: [Errno 21] Is a directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/rushtalk'


ICBW but files in public/ should be symlinks to subdirs in private/ i.e. 
public/rushtalk should be a symlink to private/rushtalk and not a directory.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/17/2020 9:24 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote:


FYI, here is a decent comparison of Django vs Flask:

https://hackr.io/blog/flask-vs-django

In the article, this was said:

"Django is suited for bigger projects that need a lot of functionality. 
For simpler projects, the features might be an overdose"


Meh. The real deal is Django is the kind of framework that makes you 
program for the framework. Flask gives you everything you need and does 
not force you to touch anything you don't -- not that there is a lot of 
the latter in it.


Django is suited for the projects where the goal is write an application 
in django ecosystem. For everything else, it is not.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Manual Update on Centos 7 (RH)

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/16/2020 2:34 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 9/16/20 12:11 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:


configure should have replaced the things @PID_DIR@, @CONFIG_DIR@,
@LOCK_DIR@, @QUEUE_DIR@ and @LOG_DIR@ with actual paths.

I think you need to provide options like
--with-pid-dir=/var/run/mailman/ -- with-config-dir=/etc/mailman
--with-lock-dir=/var/lock/mailman --with-queue-dir=/var/spool/mailman
--with-log-dir=/var/log/mailman in addition to --prefix=/usr/lib/mailman
and --with-var-prefix=/var/lib/mailman



You also need to run `autoconf` after patching and before running
configure because the patch only patches configure.in.


The source RPM has mailman.spec file that has the exact build commands 
buried in it somewhere. It'll have the exact paths for ./configure etc.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Manual Update on Centos 7 (RH)

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/15/2020 2:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 9/15/20 10:44 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:



I guess I don't know how to use patch. Better documentation would be
helpful.


man patch?



In all fairness, as I recall "-p" isn't explained all that well.

The diff file has paths to file(s) to patch, something like
--- foo/bar/baz.py.orig
+++ foo/bar/baz.py

and you (and the diff) need to be in foo's parent directory when you run 
patch. If you're in "bar" you'll get that error and you'll need to tell 
it to strip "foo" -- or however many levels of subdirs -- from the paths.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman 2 and postfix problem

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/14/2020 8:16 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 9/14/20 6:07 PM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:


Mailman aliases are not there. Assuming aaa-ste...@lists.victoria.ac.nz
is the list address of course.

They should be included in /etc/postfix/main.cf in
"alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases".



This also requires other mm_cfg.py settings. See
<https://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-integration.html>.



Actually RedHat build Just Works(tm) with only "MTA = 'Postfix'" if you 
use the stock RPM. Or at least it did as of centos 6.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman 2 and postfix problem

[Dmitri Maziuk]

Oh wait, did you say RH8? -- /etc/mailman is where "stock" mailman RPM 
puts mailman "config" files on RedHat. If you aren't using a stock RPM 
you need to figure out where you have mailman's aliases and include that 
instead.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman 2 and postfix problem

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/14/2020 7:34 PM, Steven Jones wrote:


550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User 
unknown in local recipient table


Mailman aliases are not there. Assuming aaa-ste...@lists.victoria.ac.nz 
is the list address of course.


They should be included in /etc/postfix/main.cf in
"alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases".

Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/13/2020 7:20 PM, dean.coll...@insightplanners.com wrote:

Yay! Most useless, uninformative post of the day!


Are you reading he same mailing list I do? And if yes, the follow-up 
question: did you notice the threads on getting MM2 to work on centos 7, 
RedHat 8, and did you ever stop to consider how they relate to


... the odds are I'll never 
need a "New! Improved!" MM2, or MM3.


*plonk*
Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/13/2020 6:17 PM, Chip Davis wrote:

Ironically, I was writing in support of Mark's and Stephen's position on 
the matter.  As a member of Mark's cohort, the odds are I'll never need 
a "New! Improved!" MM2, or MM3.


You wish: at some point "they" will upgrade the hardware and/or the OS 
to fix whatever horrible security hole is ending the world as we know it 
this week, and the upgrade will kill python 2 compatibility. Or some 
obscure python 2 library nobody knew existed.


"Them" being cPanel of RedHat or Cluebuntu, or any number of other 
players who aren't Mark and Stephen.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/13/2020 11:01 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:


(really just who is the Cabal these days?)


There Is No Lumber Cartel.

HTH, HAND
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: options page for this list?

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 9/2/2020 9:56 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


I'm not sure why you can't get a password reset.  That's probably a
bug (although there's a school of thought that if you have alternative
secure credentials, adding a password is a bad idea).


I couldn't get to mine either recently, I didn't get a reminder e-mail 
for either of my usual e-mail addresses. (Then I realized I was 
subscribed w/ my gmail address and that didn't need to be changed 
anyway. So I let it slide. For now.)


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 8/27/2020 12:41 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:

On 2020-08-27 13:15, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

3. Captchas are a worst practice in security and should never be used.
They can be and are defeated at will by any adversary who wants to
trouble themselves to do so.  They're also user-hostile.  There are much
better methods available for protecting Mailman instances from abusers.


I've said for some time that traditional captchas are by now almost a
REVERSE test.  Ability to solve them should be taken as stronger
evidence that you are a bot than that you are a human, because bots are
better at solving them than humans are.

Image-style captchas like reCaptcha are better, but they too have a
shocking oversight:  They do not scale well on increasingly-ubiquitous
high-resolution displays.  I'm currently using a 32" 4K monitor, and
even after zooming the page as far as I can, I still sometimes have to
resort to a magnifying glass to be certain whether I'm seeing a
specified object somewhere in the background of one of the images.


Yay, topic drift.

IME the simple stupid server-side captchas are easy enough to solve and 
will deter 100% of the random bang bots & bad search engines. And the 
reason to use them is the page you're protecting can put non-trivial 
load on the server when triggered. It has nothing to do with security, 
nor bots actively trying to solve the captcha.


But reCaptchas aren't any better at defeating bots. I'm certain you'll 
find at least one cite on that in RISKS and/or DefCon archives. And not 
only as you say, half the images are invisible to the naked eye: I have 
privacy badger and an adblock in my browser, I'm sure you can guess how 
nice those javacrap recaptchas play with that.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 8/27/2020 3:27 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Dmitri Maziuk writes:

  > The point was that the argument about MM3 having a long life expectancy
  > "because python 3" is not in any way, shape, or form supported by the
  > history of the python programming language to date.

*chortle* *In Mailman's experience* Python's backward compatibility
record has been an annoyance because it's *too good*.  Much of the
time we were officially supporting *four* 2.x versions, and it would
have been *five* at times except that we were conservative about
supporting the most recent release.  It was almost always trivial to
do so.  This policy of supporting old Python versions was quite
painful at times, preventing us from taking advantage of new Python
features.


Yes, precisely: "feechorz". My point wasn't that MM is having python 
compatibility problem, it was that python has compatibility problem with 
itself.



Although the port of Mailman 3 to Python 3 took a couple of years,
after that we had a spurt of rapid development, because Python 3 is a
much better environment for development of new code, and because str-
is-Unicode-inside made the email package much more reliable.  A lot
(not all, but a lot) of bugs were simply made impossible.  We don't
support as many versions of Python 3 (usually 2-3) because our current
Mailman 3 user population is smaller, biased toward the beta tester
type, and generally more sophisticated.


Yes, exactly. I run stable infrastructure services for not Beta Tester 
types, I want Simple Stupid and Stable.



Beside the point, actually.  There are *many* people supporting MM2
users (including me and Jim P, for two prominent examples).  But the
patch rate has been near zero for *years*, and has definitely *not*
included many of the patches I imagine Jim would want to include.

...

"There is none so blind as he who will not see" what is in the
archives of mailman-users and mailman-developers many times.  Mark
hasn't set a sunset date, but soon he's going to Just Say No.


Well if the patch rate is near zero, then it doesn't matter anyway. And 
yes, I am well aware of the previous discussions on the subject, and of 
the need to DIY spamd.py and SpamAssassin.py and so on. I'll take that 
over a django instance, even containerized, any day.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 8/26/2020 7:26 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

On 8/26/20 8:13 PM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:
Python $version code has a long life expectancy? Wow. When did that 
happen? 


Wonderful contribution to this conversation.


The point was that the argument about MM3 having a long life expectancy 
"because python 3" is not in any way, shape, or form supported by the 
history of the python programming language to date.


Arguing that MM3 itself is going to be supported because there's more 
that just Mark supporting it effectively boils down to "Mark will stop 
patching MM2". That's certainly possible, but maybe we should ask him 
instead of taking your word for it?


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 8/26/2020 4:05 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

You are all looking at the wrong thing here. The real question here is 
why are you not wanting to move to a Mailman 3 environment? It's not 
hard to install anymore. It has a future. It is modern. It as a long 
life expectancy and, most importantly, its being supported and developed.


Python $version code has a long life expectancy? Wow. When did that happen?

Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Can I make mailman archive the bounce messages it has processed?

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 6/11/2020 11:16 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 6/11/20 8:23 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote:


The reason for the bounce will be contained in the outgoing SMTP logs.



This is true only if the message is rejected upon delivery from
Mailman's outgoing MTA. In some cases, the first hop MX will accept the
message, but a downstream MTA will reject it and return a DSN. In these
cases, you need to see the actual DSN, but I agree, the first place to
look is in the log of the outgoing MTA.



There's also "backscatter" where MDA/MUA (e.g. spam filter) will bounce 
to the -- potentially spoofed -- From address.


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

Re: [Mailman-Users] Now that Python 2 is dead

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 21:05:39 +1000
Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> If you're running MM2 under Python 2.7, and you also have Python 3.7 
> installed, the two Python interpreters don't share packages unless 
> you're doing something unusual. So updating one version of the
> installed package shouldn't touch the other.
> 
> That's been my experience, for what its worth.

My latest was SaltStack on centos 6 obsoleting some python-2.6 rpms or
other and automagically replacing it with python-2.7 versions. The
other guy here had his virtualenv pull in a wrong package on the deploy
host, and took a while to figure out and find a workaround.

I mostly managed to suppress the memories of trying to upgrade
openstack from nova to havana (or whatever they were called).
-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Now that Python 2 is dead

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:58:36 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull"  wrote:
 
> PS Just saw this:
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/zooba/status/1116364827146854401

Whoever came up with that should upgrade to centos/SL/orrible 6: RedHat
will maintain and fix RHEL6 with its python 2.6 and apache 2.2 until
2034, and rebuilds are free as in beer. As long as MM2 is python
2.6-compatible, I'll be fine with it until well past retirement age.

(No wonder they sold their pile of software to anyone silly enough to
buy it.)
-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] email to sms?

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On 2/27/2019 3:22 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:


Is there a collaborative or open source email to sms project? Can anyone
refer me to better information? I've been pretty much just casting
around so far.


Google for nagios sms notifications. As I recall something was doable 
with a basic dialler program and a modem back when, now you can get a 
GSM modem and send actual sms'es.


Off the top of my head you'd put this behind a script-mailbox and 
subscribe it to your list and Robert's your parent's sibling.


Dima

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 21:29:19 -0800
Richard Johnson  wrote:
 
> What seems strange is that MOST of the time messages go through just
> fine, but ever now-and-then I'll get this failure notice.

Off the top of my head 1) they've a round-robin cluster of MXers in
which some are configured differently, or 2) they've transient DNS
lookup failures.

FWIW I do have 
  smtpd_helo_restrictions = reject_unknown_helo_hostname
  smtpd_sender_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain
on our servers because vast majority of our legitimate senders come
from .edu addersses (or their home ISPs) while b0rk3d DNS is a common
feature of spam.

-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] How many abonents mailman can handle ?

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 16:15:26 +0100
Konrad Wawryn  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I would like to create newsletter mailing list with ~3,2mln abonents.
> 
> The question is, can Mailman handle it ? Will it be possible to
> import via command line such a big amount of users ?

Ours choked on a few thousand, we ended up importing them in
smaller batches.

-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] mm-handler same as postfix-to-mailman.py

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 15:47:01 -0700
Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users  wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> 
> On 1/4/19 3:40 AM, Jim Ziobro wrote:
> > Setting up mailing lists in a separate domain has a nice
> > administrative appeal.

We used to run irix whose sendmail sent every message from host.domain
and every A record had to have an adjacent MX record for e-mail to even
work. That way lies madness.

> > I did a little more research to see how popular that method might
> > be. I got a list of 1922 US universities and 457 have a host
> > "lists" and 191 have a host "list..." in their DNS.  I surveyed
> > a few and ran across: Mailman, Lyris, Sympa, Listserv, Majordomo,
> > and Google groups. Many universities outsource their Email to
> > Outlook which has it own Group capability.

Our university has lyris @ lists.uw, googlegoups, and has recently
bought into lookout'365! as well. While we run our own mailman
instances.

We have "lists" in our little niche. It's the web front-end, our list
traffic comes from @domain. 

So 500 out of 2000 universities having "list(s)" in DNS doesn't really
mean all that much.

> I think it should be somewhat easy to test the SMTP envelope sender
> to see if it's subscribed to a list that is the SMTP envelope
> recipient. If the sender is not a subscriber the MTA can reject the
> message.

Rather trivial with postfix but a) we have bona fide subscribers
posting rom their gmail instead of subscribed From: -- I want those to
get moderated instead of bounced, b) it is of course subject to
spoofing, and c) how much of a problem is it IRL?

In our -- admittedly very lightly loaded -- domains, it's RBL and
fail2ban that seem to provide best bang for the buck.

-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman+Exim in Ubuntu

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 09:13:27 -0800
Mark Sapiro  wrote:
 
> My recomendation, especially if you want help from this list is to
> junk the Ubuntu package and install from source.

I would recommend ditching ubuntu, too, and going with something that
a) isn't systemd and b) comes with postfix. If I were doing this, I'd
be tempted to try alpine w/ mailman from source. 

(We run centos 6 on servers and so far I don't see any upgrade path for
them that involves either readhat- or debian-based distributions. In
fact, *BSD looks like a better option than any of them at the moment.)


-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Updated view on Sendmail integration

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:28:53 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull"  wrote:

> Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users writes:

>  > So basically unix user/group access model is wrong because sendmail
>  > is full of bugs?
> 
> Please, Dmitri.  All large software applications are full of bugs

Yes, and then there's sendmail ;)

I find that often, if you have a clear and concise problem statement, the 
solution will point to itself. Case in point: a) don't use unix, b) don't use 
sendmail, c) invest in SElinux labels.

-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Updated view on Sendmail integration

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:30:53 -0500
Jim Ziobro  wrote:
...
> Is the directory “/etc/mailman” group-writable only to support the 
> creation of an aliases file?I would feel more confident if /etc/mailman 
> was only writable by root.

So basically unix user/group access model is wrong because sendmail is full of 
bugs?

-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected unsubscription confirmation emails

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 00:44:40 +1000
Peter Shute  wrote:

> At least one member of our list has received an unexpected email from the 
> list server requesting confirmation of unsubscription. It looks to me like 
> someone has filled in this member's address on the unsubscription form on 
> their behalf in an attempt to remove them from the list.
> 
> Is there any way for us to monitor these attempts?

Short answer is it should be in your webserver log if it came via the web 
interface.

-- 
Dmitri Maziuk 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] [Suspected Spam]Re: Brute force attacks on mailman web ui

[Dmitri Maziuk]

On 4/21/2018 11:51 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


I also wonder what Chinese
immigration authorities would think of a fwknop app on an iPhone


They'll send your users to a re-education camp where they can learn 
about possession of restricted/illegal tech. Where they will also not 
have access to e-mail and won't be able to participate in your list.


You can skip the middle part and just not let them subscribe to begin with.

(FWIW I've recently firewalled off a bunch of Baidu IPs because their 
crawler was ignoring robots.txt and hitting CGI scripts that require a 
small-ish amount of processing... never attribute to malice that which 
can be adequately explained by stupidity.)


Dima
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org