[Mailman-Users] leaking user list to recipient email domains

[Mike Wertheim]

I'm running Mailman version 2.1.29.

I have a Mailman email list that has around 500 subscribers, who are all
members of an organization who have opted-in to the list.

One of the email addresses on the list used a custom personalized domain,
which started bouncing. I didn't notice the bounces at the time.
Eventually, Google started sending the list moderators messages saying "Our
system has detected an excessively high number of invalid recipients
originating from your account," and Gmail started rejecting list messages
that were being sent to the list subscribers who use a Gmail address. I
removed the bouncing email address from the list, and soon after that Gmail
started accepting messages from the email list again.

This seems like a very precarious situation to be in... I have a list of
500 email addresses, and Google starts rejecting all incoming email from my
list just because 1 of 500 email addresses was bouncing.

I sought help from someone at my hosting provider who seems to be
knowledgeable about Mailman configuration. He said that the problem was
that Mailman was batching up the emails and sending a single email to the
entire batch, putting each individual email address in the "RCPT TO" field.
So when a bounce happened, Gmail was able to associate the bad address from
my domain with the bounce that was happening on the bouncing personalized
domain. The advice for fixing the problem was to set the "personalize"
setting to "Full Personalization", which would prevent Google from making
that association. I think this worked (but don't know for sure, since I
don't know that we've had any bounces since then).

The problem with  "Full Personalization" is that the email headers are
being rewritten, which is confusing to users. Now, if someone sends an
email to the list, the message that is delivered to each recipient has the
recipient's email address in the "To" header and the list email address in
the "Cc" header. It works, but it's confusing (and some people's email
filters now have to be changed).

Questions...
1) Given my description of the initial problem, is  "Full Personalization"
the best way to fix the issue?
2) Is there a way to fix the issue that doesn't involve rewriting the
headers so that the email list address is in the "Cc" field?
3) Would upgrading to Mailman 3 help fix this issue in a better way?


Thanks
Mike
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Now that Python 2 is dead

[Mike Flannigan]

I'm surprised to hear there is so much migration in
Python with limited backward compatibility.?? Perl
has never had that problem.?? I almost never have to
modify my old code.?? I'd recommend you use Perl, but
everybody knows Perl is dead :-)


Mike


On 4/10/2019 6:03 PM, mailman-users-requ...@python.org wrote:

Python 3.4 is not compatible with python 3.6 is not compatible with
python 3.7 -- there is not guarantee you won't have to do the same dance
again and again every couple of years. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Ada (yes) and Go's the stated goal is to be long-term stable. Something
that basically isn't broken, like MM2, wouldn't need to be fixed
"because 2020".



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft blocking our Mailman lists

[Mike Starr]

On 10/7/2018 1:25 PM, John Levine wrote:

It may well not be you.  Linode does a poor job of keeping their
network clean of spammers and other miscreants.  They always kick them
off when you report it, but by then it's too late, so their whole
network has an iffy reputation.

Linode's hosting is nothing special, either in features or price.  You
might consider moving your system somewhere else that manages their
network better.
And there's the problem... you can switch hosts but not know if they 
manager their network better until you know they don't because your 
email gets blocked. Like they say in the pool hall, poke and hope. 
Unless there's some way to shop for a hosting company on the basis of 
their "network reputation." As far as hosting companies go, like the 
rotisserie ad said, I just want to set it and forget it.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Mike Flannigan]

No objection, but it really isn't necessary.
It's not my content, so I should probably
not be credited.


Mike


On 8/23/2018 7:32 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

David Andrews writes:

  > Are they screen shots or something???

It's a very busy day so this is all you get now, but if nobody gets to
it before I do I will test, add to FAQ *as text*, and post a link over
the weekend.

Many thanks to Mike for the link to
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
This is something we've wanted forever.

Mike: we try to credit contributors in the FAQ.  Do you have any
objection to a "Contributed by Mike Flannigan" or similar?

Steve



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Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Mike Flannigan]

Yes.  They are graphical pictures.
I did not create that webpage.
Just passing it along for others.

Basically is says to put Rootsweb in your
filters to accept messages.


Mike



On 8/22/2018 8:19 PM, David Andrews wrote:


Are they screen shots or something??? I got nothing out of the link, 
just separators and dashes.  I am blind and a screen reader user.


Dave





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Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Mike Flannigan]

For gmail, this is the fix:
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm

Users must do this.


Mike


On 8/21/2018 11:00 AM, mailman-users-requ...@python.org wrote:



Hi all,
Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't 
seeing messages they post to my lists.

Someone sent me the below link.
If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?

https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.

TIA.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Banned Addresses

[Mike Flannigan]

It is Postorius.  Thank you.
I am in the process of subscribing.


Mike


On 8/6/2018 11:00 AM, mailman-users-requ...@python.org wrote:

If this is Mailman 3/Postorius the appropriate list is 
mailman-us...@mailman3.org 
<https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/>.


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[Mailman-Users] Banned Addresses

[Mike Flannigan]

We have lists with a lot of banned addresses.  Is it
necessary to click on a white X in a red box for each
address removed, or is there a trick with the reg expression
box to remove banned addresses?  In most cases we want
to remove ALL of the banned addresses.


Mike

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Re: [Mailman-Users] change links in mail footer to https

[Mike Starr]

I'm inclined to agree with tlhackque. I'd venture a guess that a large 
percentage (perhaps even a majority) of Mailman users are provided with 
Mailman from their hosting company as the only mailing list tool 
available. The Mailman UI allows them to do the initial configuration 
and management but they're not, in most cases, even aware of python or 
shell script execution. It's completely foreign to them and most likely 
completely beyond their skill sets. They then come to this list for help 
and get told something in a language they don't understand and as this 
thread reveals, many hosting companies are completely uncooperative with 
respect to python and shell execution.


Of course, having monitored this list for several years, I'm totally 
impressed with the skill and knowledge of Mark Sapiro and others, and I 
do understand that Mailman is an open-source program for which (to the 
best of my knowledge) nobody gets paid to maintain. But it would 
certainly be nice is the Mailman UI could be improved to allow users to 
accomplish many of the things they seek help for here without having to 
spend weeks learning how to do python programming or shell script execution.


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 12/10/2017 11:42 AM, tlhackque via Mailman-Users wrote:

On 09-Dec-17 14:06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 12/09/2017 10:40 AM, Chip Davis wrote:

That's all well and good Mark, but surely you know that any fix that
involves issuing a shell command is useless for those of us responsible
for lists on a shared server running cPanel (or equivalent).

The OP indicated that he had changed DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN. If he can do
that, he can run fix_url.

That is not necessarily true.

On a cPanel-managed website that I support, the "File manager" provides
an editor, which allows any text file to be edited.  And you can set 'x'
permission.  But there is no shell access, and no straightforward way to
execute a file.  (If you're clever and sufficiently motivated, you can
setup a temporary cron job or modify some source file.)

I've had similar issues with people using wiki software; in that case,
the solution was to add a carefully-protected admin option to allow a
very privileged admin to run a shell command (e.g. system(...)).  As a
developer, I was not enthusiastic - but it seems that a significant
number of people are stuck with hosts that don't provide shell access.
Of course, my first reaction was "change hosting provider" - but there
were many "I can't" - though the reasons varied.

You might consider adding a super-user menu to allow users to run
withlist; fix_url; etc without shell access.  Or an admin privilege that
can be granted to selected list managers.  If not for MM2, for MM3.

If you don't want to support mailman in environments without shell
access, at a minimum, put a big warning in the install docs that
"administration and maintenance of a mailman site requires shell
access".  It shouldn't be a requirement that's discovered later.




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[Mailman-Users] Admin tools partially not working

[Mike Brown]

Fedora 26
mailman 2.1.21

I moved my mailman list from an old Solaris server to the new Linux server.
I did a tarball of the "lists" directory and placed it in the mailman config
area.

I do not have exim up and running yet.  So, all I can do at the moment is
admin stuff.  But, when I go to:

http://vidiot.net/mailman/listinfo it says that there are no public lists.
But, there are a few.  Going to http://vidiot.net/mailman/listinfo/foolist
says that the list does not exit.

Besides copying over the lists file from old to new, what else is needed
for the admin tools to "see" the lists?

Thanks for any pointers.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Mike Starr]

And we can all say that our preferred method is the Platonic ideal of 
email replies but out there in the world, most users go with the default 
reply location set up in their email client (some of which default to 
top posting and some of which default to bottom posting) and if there's 
trimming being done, it's usually done by the email client (web or 
desktop), not the user. At least with top posting, I don't have to 
scroll through an entire digest to see the actual content of the reply. 
I got one like that today (a reply to a 15-message digest) and since I 
was already paying attention to the conversation there was no need for 
me to scroll whatsoever.


I'm promoting top-posting with trimming; you're promoting bottom posting 
with trimming. You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to. Neither one of us is 
right, neither one of us is wrong. We each have our preferences and if 
we each adhere to the approach we prefer, everything's fine. What we 
can't do is flog the uninformed users into obedience (oh how I wish we 
could). And tanstaafl, here's your free lunch... I put in an unnecessary 
CR/LF between paragraphs so you won't have an issue with reading my 
response .


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/9/2015 3:13 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
Correct - this is what I meant when I said the vast majority of people 
who prefer bottom posting - and refer to it by that name - do NOT mean 
'blindly quoting an entire message, signatures, footers and all, and 
adding their reply beneath it all'. To promote such as a reasonable 
way to interact on mailing lists would be the height of absurdity.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Mike Starr]

Great example (below) of why I don't like bottom posting

Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/9/2015 9:49 AM, JB wrote:


On Thu, 4/9/15, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

  Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not 
top-post; do away with mailing list digests
  To: mailman-users@python.org
  Date: Thursday, April 9, 2015, 9:46 AM
  
  On 04/09/2015 12:25 AM,

  Danil Smirnov wrote:
  > The solutions is
  quite simple - use top-posting if you answering to
  > the very whole message or thread (like
  this).
  > It will save your time and would
  annoy nobody.
  
  
  Except those who receive digests or prefer to

  read the archives or
  actually need the
  quoted context to understand what you're talking
  about.
  
  --

  Mark Sapiro 
The highway is for gamblers,
  San
  Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense -
  B. Dylan
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I do not like top posting.  With TP I have to read backwards through a 
conversation to understand what is going on.  Makes no sense at all.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Mike Starr]

That's what it seemed to me that J.B. was expressing... that the entire 
message thread would be repeated in each response.


However, "blindly quoting the entire message" is the default with many 
email tools (other than the few that scrub everything but the text 
immediately below the respondee's signature). Click *Reply* and that's 
what you get... and that would be the same whether you top-post or 
bottom-post. I try to be very conscious of it and trim whatever's not 
necessary but I sometimes forget as well.


I'll leave the discussion now... I've seen these top-post/bottom-post 
flame wars in the past. It's just like the toilet paper top/bottom 
argument. There is no *right way* to do it. It's all a matter of 
preference with good arguments on both sides.


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/2/2015 2:57 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:

This would only happen if you blindly quoted the entire message.

Not ONE 'bottom poster' (inline is more correct term) would EVER suggest
doing that, but I do know more than one top-poster who refuses to
acknowledge this, and submits the same tired INVALID argument as a
reason to support their laziness.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Mike Starr]

A couple points on top-posting...

I'm a top-poster and not ashamed of it. If I'm following a message 
thread, I remember the discussion and don't want to have to scroll 
through a weeks worth of responses just to get to the new content.


Some email clients strip all but the first message below the signature 
of the new message being created as a reply. That pretty much demolishes 
the rest of the message thread. In the case of responding to a full 
message thread, that means only the original post would be included with 
the reply.


In this response (using Thunderbird), I highlighted the text I wanted to 
respond to before clicking *Reply List* and Thunderbird only included 
the highlighted text below this response. That puts the pertinent 
content right below my reply.


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/2/2015 12:45 PM, J.B. Nicholson-Owens wrote:
I somewhat concur; I understand the desire for the feature, and I 
think this is the first time I've seen a reasonable reason for it as 
well. I think it's a nice feature to have, generally. But I don't 
think this justifies top-posting because I'd prefer clients to 
collapse quoted material, attribution, and then show the first line 
(or few lines) of the message. I still prefer the logical 
point-counterpoint of an edited response I can read from the top down. 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Parallel list question

[Mike Starr]

I'd like to add my thanks as well... the folks who have contributed to 
the discussion and I'm guessing a large number behind the scenes have 
done (and continue to do) a great service... not just to Mailman but to 
users all over the world who have no idea of the dedication and effort 
of those of you below their radar. Thank you all.


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 5/3/2014 12:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>(And while I'm at it, thank you to those who have worked on the DMARC 
"enhancements.")

Thanks from all of us for your appreciation. It's been an exciting month ...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Newsreader access.

[Mike Starr]

Google Groups might be a good alternative. I agree with Peter as well... 
if they have a hard time with email, they're not going to be able to 
manage a newsreader.


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/28/2014 5:56 PM, Peter Shute wrote:

We have the same problems. If they can't handle setting up email rules, etc, 
then they certainly aren't going to be able to handle setting up a newsreader.

Most of those who complain about the emails are happy to read messages via an 
archive. The problems start when they want to reply to a message.

A fully integrated web forum would solve the problem. Yahoo groups can be 
accessed via the web or by email, but had other problems I can't remember.

Peter Shute

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Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC and Bellsouth, etc.

[Mike Starr]

I can't answer your specific question but a number of years ago I 
created a Yahoo account which required the creation of a Yahoo email 
address. I have never used that email address nor have I divulged it to 
anyone. Oddly enough, thousands of spam email addresses land in that 
Yahoo email account. I can only assume that Yahoo routinely sells email 
addresses indiscriminately... not caring if they're delivering those 
email addresses to spammers. The only other alternative is that somehow 
Yahoo's security at the time was so lax that spammers were able to hack 
into their servers and grab millions of Yahoo email addresses.


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/17/2014 11:13 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
Stephen, thanks for your generous reply, and your insights. It does 
seem to me, though, that when megabucks are riding on additional 
bandwidth, and if Yahoo is serious about controlling spam, they might 
start by putting some resources behind putting their own house in 
order. Someone, maybe it was you, posted on this forum earlier that 
perhaps 90% or more of spam with a yahoo.com origin (or one of their 
international DNs) actually _does_ come from Yahoo and that their 
response to abuse notifications is abysmal to nonexistent. So it looks 
to me as if one of two things is happening here. Either the right hand 
doesn't know what the left hand is doing (or not doing), or this is a 
blatant, cynical attack on network neutrality designed to push people 
toward Yahoo's own list service. Has anyone seen or heard any figures 
on how much this DMARC fiasco has cost Yahoo in terms of the number of 
email end-users who have left their service? Someone mentioned that it 
was substantial enough to probably get their attention. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC and Bellsouth, etc.

[Mike Starr]

If one is interested in maintaining one's identity, using an ISP's email 
makes it a pain to change ISPs. Of course, that does make the ISPs very 
happy.


This is a fascinating discussion and as administrator of two very small 
lists, it's giving me an awful lot to think about. However, being a 
clues newbie to matters of RFCs and such I'm going to ask what could be 
a very naive question... would it be possible/useful/productive to 
create an RFC to explicitly override this foolishness? I know there 
aren't any teeth behind RFCs but it might at least get their attention. 
Of course, I'd be willing to make the appropriate person a loan of my 
"Official Technical Writer's 2x4®" .


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/16/2014 1:31 PM, jdd wrote:
(of course may be yahoo do the same - why people can't use they ISP's 
mail?)


jdd

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Re: [Mailman-Users] subscribed address that forwards to secondary address can't be identified

[Mike Starr]

Does it arrive as a forward? If so, it might be possible to view the 
entire message header and trace it that way. Web-based email being what 
it is, I don't know how much or little gmail retains of the message 
headers of forwards or whether gmail allows those message headers to be 
inspected. If the gmail web interface doesn't permit viewing the message 
headers, gmail may allow the message to be saved as text and I'm 
guessing that would typically include the full message headers.


Best Regards,

Mike
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On 4/4/2014 4:29 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:

Hello all,

This is not necessarily a Mailman question, but I thought someone
administering Mailman may have come across this before.

A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are
currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that
means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail
account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as.
I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address
forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't
identify which address is the culprit.

Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?




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Re: [Mailman-Users] subscribe w/o confirmation?

[mike young]

Worked like a charm. Thank you, Mark.

--Mike

On 2/25/2014 12:21 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 02/25/2014 06:15 AM, Michael Young wrote:

I know why allowing subscriptions without either a confirmation email
or a moderator approval is a Dangerous Thing, but is there a way to
get MM to allow it?


For user subscriptions, you need to set Privacy options... ->
Subscription rules -> subscribe_policy to None. If the None radio button
doesn't appear, you need to set

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Alternatively, you can set the list's subscribe_policy to
zero using withlist or config_list.



Our list subscriptions are mostly generated by
our lab/tool management software in response to a user getting
qualified to use a piece of equipment, and I don't want users to have
a choice in this case - they get subscribed, period. (They can later
unsubscribe of course, but that means they have to actually do
something :)


Depending on how the lab/tool management software actually subscribes
the users, the above may not be needed or even work. Obviously, whatever
you are doing now results in a confirmation request, but there are other
ways. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/uIA9>, and/or the archived
post at
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041214.html>

Or the software could just generate an input file for Mailman's
bin/add_members which could be invoked either directly by the software
or via a wrapper like the members.c wrapper attached to the above FAQ if
necessary for permissions, or the add_members process could be just run
periodically by cron.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified ofheldmessage

[Mike Beaty]

On Apr 4, 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:


Ooops. just noticed the double 'nn'. That's a different issue. It's
something corrupt in the pending.pck file. In your version, it's
data/pending.pck in Mailman's var_prefix. You can simply move it
aside or delete it and also, any pending.db.


I was hoping it was something simple like this.  I deleted the
pending.pck file, then ran http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/hold_again as
	hold_again -a 
from the ~mailman/bin directory.  KaCHOW!  Back in business.


Thanks, Mark!

Mike
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified of heldmessage

[Mike Beaty]

On Apr 4, 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:


Mike Beaty wrote:

.  The held messages do not appear in the web admindb interface
.  They also do not show up in the 'vette' log
.  cron/checkdbs runs every morning at 8 am.
.  Messages are held in ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt


If the ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt is created with the
message but the message is not visible in the admindb interface, some
exception is being thrown between writing the
~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt file and saving the lists
request.pck file. I'd guess a permissions issue, but what's in
Mailman's error log?


That's possible, though I don't think that anyone's been twiddling
with the file system or the mailman installation.  However, I would
very much like for it to be a permissions issue, as I know how to fix
permissions :-).

I've put the last ~500 lines of ~mailman/logs/error into
http://www.mikebeaty.com/mailman_log.txt

Interestingly (to me), I see this error
ImportError: No module named Mailmann.UserDesc
which began on or about the day I first noticed the issues.  Searches
on the term Mailmann.UserDesc yielded no results, so my installation
must be uniquely horked.


.  Mailman version: 2.1


Really? Mailman 2.1 was released in 2002; the current version in 2005
was 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 (released May 2005). 2.1.15 is the latest release,
but recent versions require Python 2.4+ <http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9>.


37 /export/mailman/bin> version
Using Mailman version: 2.1

And I was mistaken in my original post.  According to the logs, the
correct date was Feb 04 11:29:54 2004 .  I apologize for the
confusion.  This installation has been working fine for over nine
years.  Unfortunately, I'm not the only sysadmin on this box, so
something may have been upgraded and/or changed without my knowledge.

I greatly appreciate your reply!

Mike
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[Mailman-Users] Owner and/or moderator not being notified of held message

[Mike Beaty]

I have RTFM and have done searches, but have been unable to find the
solution.  I'll try to be brief and include answers to questions asked
of those with similar issues in the past.

I have had mailman 2.1 installed since 2005 and it has been working
fine -- until recently.  Now, I'm not notified when a post is held for
moderation.  I may get a notice a day to several days later that I have
moderator request(s) waiting.

.  Messages not held for moderation are delivered without delay
.  Issues seem to be related to messages held for moderator approval
.  Lists have the *admin_immed_notify* set to 'yes'. 
.  The held messages do not appear in the web admindb interface
.  They also do not show up in the 'vette' log
.  cron/checkdbs runs every morning at 8 am.
.  Messages are held in ~mailman/data/heldmesg-listname-###.txt
.  Email sent to listname-ow...@domain.com is successfully delivered.

.  Mailman version: 2.1
.  python-2.3.2
.  Postfix 2.1.4
.  Solaris 8 10/01 s28s_u6wos_08a SPARC (yes, I know)
.  Built from http://www.list.org/download.html back in the day

Any pointers would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Mike
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Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL redacts user addresses even with VERP and full personalization enabled

[Mike Starr]

Ah, if only I could write documentation as clear as that!

Best regards,

Mike
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On 6/19/2012 4:23 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 14:48 -0500, Mike Starr wrote:

Many of the mailman cognoscenti are highly skilled technical folks
with little respect (and often little tolerance) for clueless users.
Sometimes you just have to choke back the bile and lovingly correct
those who have less understanding.


On the lists which I administer myself I try to make the unsubscribe
process very easy and transparent.  Every user who tries,
unsuccessfully, to unsubscribe is sent the following clear and
unambiguous message with easy-to-follow instructions:

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Mary Fireman 
wrote:
 unsubscribe

Hmph.  You can't get out that easy.

Please Note:  In some later model unsubscribe kits, the "OFF" indicator
has been replaced by "POWER-UP STANDBY ENABLE".  Accordingly the "ON"
indicator has been replaced by the much clearer, "POWER-DOWN STANDBY
ENABLE".  Contact your internet service provider for a list of affected
model numbers.  An "ON-OFF" retrofit panel kit is available for those
who have difficulty with the new and much clearer labeling.

First, ask your Internet Provider to mail you an Unsubscribing Kit. Then
follow these directions. The kit will most likely be the standard
no-fault type. Depending on requirements, System A and/or System B can
be used. When operating System A, depress lever and a plastic dalkron
unsubscriber will be dispensed through the slot immediately underneath.
When you have fastened the adhesive lip, attach connection marked by the
large "X" outlet hose. Twist the silver-coloured ring one inch below
the connection point until you feel it lock.

The kit is now ready for use. The Cin-Eliminator is activated by the
small switch on the lip. When securing, twist the ring back to its
initial condition, so that the two orange lines meet. Disconnect. Place
the dalkron unsubscriber in the vacuum receptacle to the rear. Activate
by pressing the blue button.

The controls for System B are located on the opposite side. The red
release switch places the Cin-Eliminator into position; it can be
adjusted manually up or down by pressing the blue manual release button.
The opening is self-adjusting. To secure after use, press the green
button, which simultaneously activates the evaporator and returns the
Cin-Eliminator to its storage position.

You may log off if the green exit light is on over the evaporator . If
the red light is illuminated, one of the Cin-Eliminator requirements has
not been properly implemented. Press the "List Guy" call button on the
right of the evaporator . He will secure all facilities from his control
panel.

To use the Auto-Unsub, first undress and place all your clothes in the
clothes rack. Put on the velcro slippers located in the cabinet
immediately below. Enter the shower, taking the entire kit with you. On
the control panel to your upper right upon entering you will see a
"Shower seal" button. Press to activate. A green light will then be
illuminated immediately below. On the intensity knob, select the desired
setting. Now depress the Auto-Unsub activation lever. Bathe normally.

The Auto-Unsub will automatically go off after three minutes unless you
activate the "Manual off" override switch by flipping it up. When you
are ready to leave, press the blue "Shower seal" release button. The
door will open and you may leave. Please remove the velcro slippers and
place them in their container.

If you prefer the ultrasonic log-off mode, press the indicated blue
button. When the twin panels open, pull forward by rings A & B. The knob
to the left, just below the blue light, has three settings, low, medium
or high. For normal use, the medium setting is suggested.

After these settings have been made, you can activate the device by
switching to the "ON" position the clearly marked red switch. If during
the unsubscribing operation, you wish to change the settings, place the
"manual off" override switch in the "OFF" position. You may now make the
change and repeat the cycle. When the green exit light goes on, you may
log off and have lunch. Please close the door behind you.


Occam's Razor strikes again!!




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Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL redacts user addresses even with VERP and full personalization enabled

[Mike Starr]

This has been a fascinating discussion that I've been enjoying very much.

However, one thing we need to remember is that we, as list administrators, usually (but not always) 
have far greater insight than the average user into the realities of what spam is and what spam 
isn't. Most of us understand the technical definitions of what spam is. But there's a massive 
amount of users who don't have a clue. They may believe that the email that expresses an opinion 
(conforming to the TOS of the mailing list to which they're subscribed) that they vehemently 
disagree with *is* spam. They also may have never even scanned the bottom of each email they 
receive from their mailing list and noticed the (usually) clear instructions for unsubscribing from 
the list. How often have we all seen an email posted to one of our lists that says 
"Unsubscribe me from this list" or perhaps "stop sending me this crap"?

Many of the mailman cognoscenti are highly skilled technical folks with little respect 
(and often little tolerance) for clueless users. Sometimes you just have to choke back 
the bile and lovingly correct those who have less understanding. Perhaps the unsubscribe 
message should also contain something like "The email messages you've received as a 
subscriber to this mailing list are *not spam*. Messages from new users are all approved 
by the list moderator until that moderator is convinced that the subscriber is not a 
spammer.  If you reported a message from this list as spam to your email provider we'll 
unsubscribe you as soon as we find out about it. If you reported a message as spam 
accidentally and don't want to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, click *here*."

Best regards,

Mike
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[Mailman-Users] problem with people subscribing

[mike]

hi,

I've ben admistering mailman for several years now. But ran into an odd
issue today. I had a customer come to me and they have a mailing list
b...@blah.com

when they have people use blah-subscr...@blah.com the people are getting
access denied errors i've checked all the settings am i over looking
something?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a new Mailman host

[mike and bud]

hi,

I could host his list if you like.

I have a company but my sight is under construction at the moment if you get
back to me and tell me what he is looking for I can help you fearther 

-Original Message-
From: mailman-users-bounces+mstopka=jmshosting...@python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mstopka=jmshosting...@python.org] On Behalf Of
Rachel Mawhood
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 5:04 AM
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a new Mailman host

Hi list

My client is looking to move his Mailman from self-hosting to somewhere
else.  I found this

http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services

but the first organisation I wrote to, taken from this list, said that they
are probably going to cease offering and running this  Mailman hosting
service in the near future.

So may I ask you for recommendations?  Although my client is based in the
UK, the Mailman hosting company could be in Germany (my client speaks German
fluently) or in the USA.

Thanks in advance.
Rachel

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Editing MM-List-Subscription-Msg

[Mike Starr]

Ah, the sun begins to break over the horizon. I'll edit the HTML then () 
and wait with bated breath for the overhauled web UI. Thanks much for your patience 
with my questions.

Best regards,

Mike
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On 5/23/2011 10:16 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Mike Starr wrote:


However, it also just seems to me that this is one of those things that should 
probably be editable on the *General Options* form page itself, like most of 
the other text chunks. That's why I also asked about the procedure for adding 
that editing capability as a feature request for the *General Options* form 
page.



Is I tried to indicate, it's not just a simple chunk of text. It is one
of three possible chunks or the empty string depending on
subscribe_policy possibly followed by one of two chunks depending on
private_roster possibly followed by another chunk if umbrella_list is
true. Thus, there are 6 strings plus the empty string and a total of
24 possible combinations of these that make up the final message.

The web UI is being totally redone for MM3, so this will certainly
change there and may be moot.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Editing MM-List-Subscription-Msg

[Mike Starr]

Mark,

Thanks much for your response.

Yes, I did realize I could directly edit that bit of HTML, replacing the 
 tag with my own specific text. I was not sure, 
though, if there was some sort of mechanism in the built-in user interface for 
editing the content of the variable that I (clueless bowb that I sometimes am) had 
overlooked.  All things considered, when a chunk of text is sourced from a variable, 
I'd rather modify the variable definition instead of just taking it out of the 
process.

However, it also just seems to me that this is one of those things that should 
probably be editable on the *General Options* form page itself, like most of 
the other text chunks. That's why I also asked about the procedure for adding 
that editing capability as a feature request for the *General Options* form 
page.

Best regards,

Mike
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On 5/23/2011 9:25 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Mike Starr wrote:


I had really hoped this would be something I could modify from the *General 
Options* section but no joy. So now I'm apparently going to have to figure out 
how to edit code on the server somewhere. Can someone point me to what I have 
to do to edit this particular variable? I've got the sneaking suspicion that 
this stuff is not going to be easy to gain access to on the hosting company's 
server.



You are making this more difficult than it needs be, The replacement
for the  tag is the result of a procedure in
Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py named FormatSubscriptionMsg(), and it creates
an 'appropriate' message based on the list's subscribe_policy,
private_roster and umbrella_list settings.

However, if you don't like the generated message for your list, just
edit the list's *General list information page* and replace the
  tag with whatever text you want.


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[Mailman-Users] Editing MM-List-Subscription-Msg

[Mike Starr]

Hello,

I recently had someone outside our group visit the group's Mailman page and 
subscribe to the list. I corrected the setting so that it now requires 
administrator approval for someone to join the list. Cool... no problem.

However, the text on the Mailman page doesn't make it clear how we limit who we will 
allow as a member of our list. I thought, okay... I'll just edit the appropriate text 
via the *General Options* section. Uh oh... it's not there. Okay, so I'll go to the 
*Members -- HTML Page Editing* page and take care of it. So I click on the *General 
list information page* and find that the specific bit of text I want to edit appears 
to be sourced from the ** variable. All I can find in 
the Wiki and other documentation on that particular variable is a definition.

I had really hoped this would be something I could modify from the *General 
Options* section but no joy. So now I'm apparently going to have to figure out 
how to edit code on the server somewhere. Can someone point me to what I have 
to do to edit this particular variable? I've got the sneaking suspicion that 
this stuff is not going to be easy to gain access to on the hosting company's 
server.

Is this something I can somehow request as a feature enhancement to the 
*General Options* section? And if so, what's the process for that?

Thanks,

Mike
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[Mailman-Users] Missing emails

[Mike McFall]

I have a problem with emails that go missing when people respond or send
them to the list.  It appears to be random.

I sent an email to my list, and it didn't get sent out by the list.

Anyone else have this issue, or know what might be happening?

Thanks!

Mike
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[Mailman-Users] Bounce emails and Qmail

[Mike Manning]

Hi there,

We use Mailman 2.1 with Qmail and Plesk (v10.2). Everything works nicely 
with Mailman however it's not sending out the bounce emails to the owner 
to say there are pending requests. Upon checking the 
/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure logs, it's showing that 
website-ow...@website.name doesn't exist when mailman tries to send the 
bounce request to the list owner. It does however send back the user who 
sent the email a pending request saying that their email is awaiting 
authorization. There's all the .qmail files in 
/var/qmail/mailnames/website/.qmail-listname-* and have this type of format:


|/var/qmail/bin/preline /usr/lib/plesk-9.0/mm_wrapper 
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner websitename


If I try and send an email directly to website-ow...@website.name, it'll 
bounce back straight away with:

550 sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17)

It's like qmail isn't passing control to mailman when doing recipient 
verification? Has anyone else had these issues with Plesk and Qmail?


Cheers, Mike
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[Mailman-Users] Missing emails

[Mike McFall]

I have people on my list that seem to get some emails that are sent
out, but not others.  Anyone know why this might be?


Thanks,

Mike
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Iphone problem

[Mike McFall]

It contains just the footer.  I looked over the link you sent, but I
already have the settings set to make every email into plain text.  So
I don't know what else I can do without actually removing the footer -
which I really don't want to do.

Thanks

Mike

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> Mike McFall wrote:
>
>>I have someone who is having problems viewing the emails sent out on the
>>list on her iphone because they are coming through as an attachment on her
>>phone called "part2.plain"
>>
>>Does anyone know if this is this something with iphone or the my list?
>
>
> Does the part2.plain attachment contain the message body or just the
> msg_footer?
>
> The answer to your question is "both". See the FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9> for more information.
>
> --
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> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
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[Mailman-Users] Iphone problem

[Mike McFall]

I have someone who is having problems viewing the emails sent out on the
list on her iphone because they are coming through as an attachment on her
phone called "part2.plain"

Does anyone know if this is this something with iphone or the my list?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL email not getting messages

[Mike McFall]

I didn't do anything, but for some reason she just started receiving
emails.  Thanks for your help!

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Mike McFall wrote:
>
> >The only boxes in her subscription that are checked are "nodupes" and
> >"plain"  just like everyone else.
>
>
> Are there other AOL users that receive posts? If so, it may be some
> filtering in her own AOL account. She should try adding the
> listname-boun...@list.domain address to her AOL address book.
>
> If not, see the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9>.
>
> --
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> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL email not getting messages

[Mike McFall]

The only boxes in her subscription that are checked are "nodupes" and
"plain"  just like everyone else.



On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt <
ralf.hildebra...@charite.de> wrote:

> * Mike McFall :
> > I have a subscriber who is using AOL for email, and she isn't receiving
> > messages that are sent out to the mail list.
>
> The settings for her a set in a way that she IS supposed to receive
> mail?
>
> > She can send them out from her AOL email, but isn't getting any.
> >
> > Any ideas?
>
> Check your logs!
>
> --
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>  Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
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>  Campus Benjamin Franklin
>  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
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[Mailman-Users] AOL email not getting messages

[Mike McFall]

I have a subscriber who is using AOL for email, and she isn't receiving
messages that are sent out to the mail list.

She can send them out from her AOL email, but isn't getting any.

Any ideas?
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[Mailman-Users] JPG Images not being filtered

[Mike McFall]

I had someone email out to the entire list an embedded jpg image that was
not filtered, yet I have jpg on the list of file attachments to be
filtered.  Can embedded images not be filtered?

Am I missing something?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Auto-generating messages "to the list", instead of "to the member"

[Mike Maughan]

Thanks, Mark.

Don't you ever sleep? :))

Regards, Mike




On 25 October 2010 15:25, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Mike Maughan wrote:
> >
> >Is there any way I can set up MM to send predefined posts to the list (as
> >opposed to direct to the poster) on receipt of various triggers?
>
>
> I don't think so. Depending on the nature of the triggers, it may be
> possible to do this outside of Mailman with some other process that
> posts to the list.
>
>
> >Also on a related note, is there a way to default MM to put all new
> members
> >on moderation by default, perhaps until they have made nn posts?
>
>
> Set Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> default_member_moderation
> to Yes. This will moderate new members by default. There is no way to
> automatically set moderation off after nn posts, but the moderator
> summary interface contains a check box to clear a members moderation
> flag for posts from moderated members so it is easy to do this
> manually when approving the moderated member's post.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
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[Mailman-Users] Auto-generating messages "to the list", instead of "to the member"

[Mike Maughan]

Afternoon all,

Amongst others I run a mailman list for our family history society (The
Maughan Society) and like many such lists we get quite a lot of new members
"dropping in" with a specific query then "dropping out" again once they have
that specific question answered.

Our community aims to keep interested members and to grow in numbers, so one
specific moderation task has been to post a "welcome to new member x"
message to the list to draw the new member in to discuss their interests and
hopefully to become engaged with the community.  So far, this has been an
entirely manual task but has suffered at times as I and the other moderators
are getting on a bit and periodically go offline with one medical
complication or another.  This can mean that the potential member has gotten
bored and moved on if we haven't responded within the magic 3-day period.

Is there any way I can set up MM to send predefined posts to the list (as
opposed to direct to the poster) on receipt of various triggers?

Also on a related note, is there a way to default MM to put all new members
on moderation by default, perhaps until they have made nn posts?

Regards, Mike
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Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck

[Mike Cherry]

Mark,

Thanks the cron/checkdbs script had not been added to the crontab.  Running 
that script resulted in list1's config.pck shrinking to just 40K.

Cheers,
Mike



On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Mike Cherry wrote:
>> 
>> In looking at the dumpdb txt I see the issue is with the 
>> hold_and_cmd_autoresponses.  The size of the file does not correlate with 
>> the number of subscribers rather the amount of spam the list recieves.  
>> 
>> list 1; config.pck size 16M, 1.2M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 113 
>> subscribers
>> 
>> list 2; config.pck size 13M, 1.0M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 584 
>> subscribers
>> 
>> list 3; config.pck size 1.1M, 80K hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 62 
>> subscribers
>> 
>> 
>> I'm assuming that 1.2 million addresses in hold_and_cmd_autoresponses might 
>> be keeping the file large?  I am assuming that my problem is with the size 
>> of the file as lists with smaller config.pck files release locks quicker and 
>> the web admin interface starts much much faster.
>> 
>> In Defaults.pk I have MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY = 10.
> 
> 
> Your assumptions are more or less correct, but is cron/checkdbs
> running? It should be deleting all but the current day's
> hold_and_cmd_autoresponses entries from every config.pck every time it
> runs.
> 
> If you're getting spam to a list from a million addresses a day, you
> really do have a spam problem :(
> 
> So I'm guessing that cron/checkdbs is not running or something is going
> wrong with that process. See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/H4Cj>
> which may be relevant.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck

[Mike Cherry]

Mark,

Of course you were right the size of my config.pck was not because of the 
bounce information.  The with script did remove some old bounce info but not 
much.  In looking at the dumpdb txt I see the issue is with the 
hold_and_cmd_autoresponses.  The size of the file does not correlate with the 
number of subscribers rather the amount of spam the list recieves.  

list 1; config.pck size 16M, 1.2M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 113 
subscribers

list 2; config.pck size 13M, 1.0M hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 584 
subscribers

list 3; config.pck size 1.1M, 80K hold_and_cmd_autoresponses addresses, 62 
subscribers


I'm assuming that 1.2 million addresses in hold_and_cmd_autoresponses might be 
keeping the file large?  I am assuming that my problem is with the size of the 
file as lists with smaller config.pck files release locks quicker and the web 
admin interface starts much much faster.

In Defaults.pk I have MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY = 10.

-Mike


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[Mailman-Users] cleaning up config.pck

[Mike Cherry]

Is there a utility / script that will allow me to clean up very large 
config.pck files?  I have a couple lists that receive huge amounts of spam.  My 
problem is the saved bounced information is never removed.  I've got a couple 
config.pck files that are >15M.  The size of these files is slowing down the 
delivery of message as it needs to be read over and over as messages are 
processed.

-Mike

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[Mailman-Users] HTML, Rich Text, Embedded and Attached Files and Images

[Mike Bean]

I want to install a mail server on my photographic club's web site to allow
all members to send questions announcements etc. to all other members using
HTML, Rich Text and Plain text format e-mails and allow embedded and
attached files and images (although I accept there may be issues with
Outlook user). I will want to manage the registration of all users none of
whom will be allowed to self-administer their accounts.
 
Is this practical with Mailman and are there downsides.

Mike
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail mm-handler deployment.

[Mike Mestnik]

Mike Mestnik wrote:
> Hello,
>   I'd like to share with every one that I just deployed mailman using
> the contributed mm-handler and that I had some issues working with the
> default sendmail configuration that I plan to bring to the sendmail
> developers.
> 
>   If there are any other comments or questions on this configuration I'd
> be glad to hear them.
> 
> This configuration does work for me.
> 
I spoke with sendmail-2010(Claus Assmann) and was given a new idea as to
how to set these options.  This is what was pointed out for CentOS54:

define(`LOCAL_MAILER_FLAGS', `rhqSu')
MODIFY_MAILER_FLAGS(`LOCAL', `-sAw5:/|@q')
define(`LOCAL_MAILER_PATH',
`/usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler, U=mailman:mail')
define(`LOCAL_MAILER_ARGS', `mm-handler $h $u')
define(`LOCAL_MAILER_DSN_DIAGNOSTIC_CODE', `DNS/RFC822/SMTP')
MAILER(`local', )dnl

#!/bin/sh
chmod ug+x /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler*
chown root:mail /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/contrib/mm-handler*

I'm unsure still what all of these options do, but I'm told that these
options will generate a Mlocal that matches what I'm using.

I hope this helps future sendmail users.

-- 
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Technical Team
___
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[Mailman-Users] Sendmail mm-handler deployment.

[Mike Mestnik]

Hello,
  I'd like to share with every one that I just deployed mailman using
the contributed mm-handler and that I had some issues working with the
default sendmail configuration that I plan to bring to the sendmail
developers.

  If there are any other comments or questions on this configuration I'd
be glad to hear them.

This configuration does work for me.

-- 
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Technical Team
___
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[Mailman-Users] Small list for club

[Mike Mackenna]

I am a member of a cigar club that would like to make use of a mailing
list.  I would like to use mailman for the list.  I hear running your
own email server can be a headache because of all of the security
concerns.  Is there a free service available for small clubs to make
use of the mailman mailing list?  If not can I run a mailman mailing
list from my home using a broadband connection, dyndns, and a linux
box, or should I be looking into hosting options?  If hosting is the
way to go can someone point out a mailman list provider that may fit
my needs?

Thanks,
Mike
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[Mailman-Users] Mailman

[Mike Hughes]

I have a mailing list that has been running under Mailman. Another  
fellow has been hosting the mailing list for me. I would like to begin  
doing so myself. I have a computer available for the task. What Linux  
version will work best? What will I need to do to set up mailman?



Mike  Hughes - Minister  
Wilmington church of Christ

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Power corrupts.
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The contents of this email are personal and private.  Please do not  
forward this communication, in whole or in part, to anyone without my  
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't change host name preference

[Mike Flaherty]

Thanks for the detailed reply.
 
That fixed everything!!
 
- Mike

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

From: Mark Sapiro 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't change host name preference
To: mflahe...@tidewise.com, mailman-users@python.org
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:46 AM

Mike Flaherty wrote:
> 
>I am trying to set up Mailman on a new domain.  I have done it in the past
without issue, but now I have a really bizzare problem.
> 
>When I go to the "MYLIST mailing list administration General Options
Section" page, I notice the following entry preloaded in the "Host
name this list prefers for email" field...
> 
>syd.xobas.net
> 
>I have NO IDEA where this is coming from.  It is not my domain, so I
replace it with my own.


It comes from the add_virtualhost() entry for the domain. There should
be an

add_virtualhost('web_domain', 'email_domain')

line in mm_cfg.py. Then if you create the list from the web interface
with a URL whose host name is 'web_domain', the list will be created
with host_name = 'email_domain'.

Likewise if you create the list with bin/newlist -u 'web_domain'


>However, when I click the "Submit your changes" button, it goes
to an invalid page.


You mean a 404? If so, the list's web_page_url is also messed up.


When I try again, I notice that when I hover over the button, the URL
that it translates to incorporates that "syd.xobas.net" domain into
the URL.


Huh? The button is a submit action for a form. Are you saying the POST
action URL has host "syd.xobas.net"? If so, my best guess is that
that
is the value of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in your
installation.


>I looked all over my server (a vps running CentOS 5) for where that entry
might be coming from.  I did find an occurance of it in 
> 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/MYLIST/index.html
> 
>and
> 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/index.html
> 
>But I don't know how it got there.  Where is the proper place to
replace that domain with my own?


In mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'your_web_domain'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'your_email_domain'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

plus add_virtualhost() lines for any additional domains.

Then run fix_url to fix the existing list, e.g.

  bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url 

-- 
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[Mailman-Users] Can't change host name preference

[Mike Flaherty]

Hello,
 
I am trying to set up Mailman on a new domain.  I have done it in the past 
without issue, but now I have a really bizzare problem.
 
When I go to the "MYLIST mailing list administration General Options Section" 
page, I notice the following entry preloaded in the "Host name this list 
prefers for email" field...
 
syd.xobas.net
 
I have NO IDEA where this is coming from.  It is not my domain, so I replace it 
with my own.
 
However, when I click the "Submit your changes" button, it goes to an invalid 
page.  When I try again, I notice that when I hover over the button, the URL 
that it translates to incorporates that "syd.xobas.net" domain into the URL.
 
I looked all over my server (a vps running CentOS 5) for where that entry might 
be coming from.  I did find an occurance of it in 
 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/MYLIST/index.html
 
and
 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/mailman/index.html
 
But I don't know how it got there.  Where is the proper place to replace that 
domain with my own?
 
Thanks Much,
Mike


  
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[Mailman-Users] Migrating a list from Yahoo to MM

[Mike Maughan]

Morning all,

I have a long-standing list on Yahoogroups that I want to move to MailMan.
I can export & reimport the users OK but I would like to also transfer the
message archive.

Anyone have any suggestions, please?

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[Mailman-Users] My thoughts on mailman

[Mike Brown]

Now that I am up and running, I want to express my thoughts about the program.

LOVE IT

While it didn't seem that way, based upon all of the previous e-mail, the
web interface to the mail list is top notch.

The developers have done an excellent job.

Thanks for a great mail list package.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] My issue with using web server on the server to get to mailman

[Mike Brown]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 12:27:27PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> Anyway, changing that to 127.0.0.1 should do what you want; the DSL
> box can't get its hands on that since it never leaves the local host
> at all.

Found it.  I have two Opera browsers running (don't ask) with separate .opera
files.  Something came to mind and to test the theory out, I went to the 2nd
browser and guess what, it worked.  I can get to the mailman web page even.

Take a deep breath, think for a couple of seconds and the reason why will
instantly occur to you.

1001

1002
















Caching.

Once the internet address was found, it got cached.

Crap, I've cleared the cache and the history and it still goes there.
I had to clear everything and get out of Opera, because there is also 20MB
of memory cache :-)

Thanks for the pointer to use the local loopback interface.  Much better
to use that.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] My issue with using web server on the server to get to mailman

[Mike Brown]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 12:27:27PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Mike Brown writes:
> 
>  > I then changed the hosts file to look like:
>  > 
>  >192.168.1.1 mrvideo vidiot.com www.vidiot.com loghost
> 
> Are you sure 192.168.1.1 isn't the DSL box?  192.168.1.1 is grabbed
> for themselves by many DSL boxes.  But whatever.

Yes.  The first DSL box I got was one of those passive types, where the computer
is set to the actual IP.  The Linux server used two ports at that time and the
internal LAN had the server at 192.168.1.1.  The Linux server did the
firewalling and NAT processing.  When the upgraded DSL connection was done,
it used new equipment and a new modem.  So I assigned 192.168.1.254 to the
DSL NAT box and that is used as the gateway address by all of the LAN
computers.

> Anyway, changing that to 127.0.0.1 should do what you want; the DSL
> box can't get its hands on that since it never leaves the local host
> at all.

Good idea, didn't think of doing it there.  So now the hosts file looks like:

127.0.0.1   localhost www.vdiot.com vidiot.com

Doing a ping got the right results:

mrvideo.ZROOT <64> ping -s vidiot.com
PING vidiot.com: 56 data bytes
64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=0. time=0.0620 ms

That is a good sign.

All went to pieces after that.  Putting vidiot.com as the URL got the damn
DSL modem's web page again.  That is just not right.  As you say, that should
be impossible.

Back to the drawing board to figure out what is going on with those packets.

BTW, the packets are really going to the DSL modem, because when I disconnect
the LAN cable to the bax, the browser freezes until I reconnect it, and the
pages gets loaded.

MB
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[Mailman-Users] My issue with using web server on the server to get to mailman

[Mike Brown]

Enhancement request:

Allow the following to work:

http://localhost/mailman/...

Then, somewhere within the configuration, mailman is told that localhost is
equal to, in my case, vidiot.com/www.vidiot.com.

After doing so more research tonight, even if I sent up the DNS bind
configuration on my system, it won't help.  I removed dns from the nsswitch.conf
file and verified that the browser can't get anywhere.

I then changed the hosts file to look like:

192.168.1.1 mrvideo vidiot.com www.vidiot.com loghost

I then told the browser to go to http://vidiot.com and the DSL box put up
its web page.  The DSL box will not allow me to talk to myself with regards to
web pages.  Whomever wrote the Linux software for the DLS modem didn't take
into account this situation.  It should only allow web access via its LAN
address.

By using the locahost interface, I avoid sending packets out of the ethernet
port, keeping the DSL modem from intercepting them.

I can't be the only one that has had a problem with this.

I really do not want to spend money on a router to do a simple thing that
can be done in software.  That is just plain overkill.

Thanks for listening.

BTW, I'm going to WiMax in the near future, after TDS gets their act together,
which will get me a whole new internet interfce box.  No idea how it will work.
I'd rather not wait until then to find out.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't create list

[Mike Brown]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:32:47PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> When you change DEFAULT_URL_HOST and/or DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, 
> you want to clear the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary and start over. Granted, 
> Defaults.py only mentions putting the add_virtualhost in mm_cfg.py, and it 
> isn't strictly necessary to remove the original entry from Defaults.py, but 
> I think it's good to do. See .

Thanks.

I was able to create the mail list.  Did some simple admin stuff.  But, since
I left my printed copy of the manual at home, I couldn't figure out how to
subscribe myself.

I'll try that tomorrow.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't create list

[Mike Brown]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 07:04:46PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Put the following in mm_cfg.py
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'vidiot.com'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'vidiot.com'

Those two lines were there.

> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

Don't see this mentioned in the Defaults.py file.

> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Missed this being described in the Defaults.py file.

Thanks for pointing it out.  We'll see how far I get tomorrow.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't create list

[Mike Brown]

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:03:41PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Because those host names are not in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. You
> could put something like
> 
> add_virtualhost('192.168.1.1', '192.168.1.1')
> 
> in mm_cfg.py and then create a list in the '192.168.1.1' domain, but
> don't do that because the domain '192.168.1.1' will appear everywhere
> in that list's links and addresses and it won't work from outside your
> LAN.

I tried it from work and got the same problem, virtual host unknown: vidiot.com

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't create list

[Mike Brown]

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 06:59:57PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I don't know what your network looks like, but in my case, I have a
> router connected to the LAN side of the DSL modem and if I send a
> packet from a box on the lan to (e.g.) port 80 at my external IP, the
> router knows that is its IP and it routes the packet back to the local
> box that's configured in its port forwarding table for port 80 without
> ever trying to send it to the WAN.

No routers.  Just a 1GB switch and the DSL modem.  The DSL modem is a router,
but do not know if the routing table stuff is only for redirecting WAN stuff
to internal 192 LAN addresses.  There is no manual for the damn thing.

> Also, can you dial out with a modem? I know that's so 20th century, but
> it will bypass the DSL box outbound.

I haven't had a modem attached to a system for a decade :-)

Looks like I'll have to start a nameserver and have it listed first in
resolv.conf so that I can have it point www.vidiot.com and vidiot.com to
the LAN address.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't create list

[Mike Brown]

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:03:41PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Fix whatever network issue is preventing you from going to
> http://vidiot.com/mailman/create (on the correct box) from inside your
> LAN.

That is not going to be easy.  While adding www.vidiot.com and vidiot.com
to the hosts file works for doing things like ping, which shows that 192.168.1.1
is doing the responding, the Opera browser is not using the OS to do lookups
and is going directly through DNS to look up vidiot.com.  The local hosts
file is therefore ignored. :-(

I do not have bind running locally.  There has been no need for it.  The
resolv.conf file is set to go to my ISP's nameserver and then to the two
nameservers that host my domainname.

If I had a bunch of internal Unix boxes that I needed to be able to communicate
between, then I'd set one up.

While it won't be the easiest thing to do, the best might be to just do admin
from work.

MB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't create list

[Mike Brown]

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:03:41PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> http://vidiot.com/mailman/create works for me. All the above would seem
> like network/DNS/router issues. Perhaps from inside your LAN,
> http:/vidiot.com/ goes to the wrong box.

There are zero other boxes on the internal LAN that has a webserver running,
i.e. they are all Windoze boxes.

> >Can not for the life of me figure out why the DocumentRoot is not getting
> >prepended to the request.
> 
> 
> Well, it is a ScriptAlias, so it has nothing to do with the document
> root, but as I say, it works for me. I think it would work for you too
> if it went to the correct box.

While thinking about this and remembering the WebAdmin GUI login box that came
up while trying to go to the root webpage, it dawned on me to try something.
That is I tried logging into the DSL box.  Sure enough, the damn DSL
modem/router is intercepting the outgoing http request.

If the http request comes in via the WAN, i.e., DSL phone line connection,
it gets routed to 192.168.1.1.  But, if a request to my IP address comes in
from the LAN, the damn box intercepts it, instead of passing it through to the
DSL DSLAM gateway and having it send it back.

Not sure how to get around this.  I unfortunately deleted the rest of your
reply, which I think has something in it about this.  So, I'll go read what
you wrote and see if that will work.

MB
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[Mailman-Users] Can't create list

[Mike Brown]

I am getting extremely frustrated.

Keep in mind that the server is on a DSL, static IP, on the LAN side of the DSL
with an IP of 192.168.1.1.  The vidiot.com obviously points to the real outside
address.

If I traceroute vidiot.com, it never goes the the DSlam gateway and back.

Until trying to do things with mailman, having to get at my webpages on the
server via http://localhost/... has not been a problem.

Can't get there via http:/vidiot.com/ as I get the following error:

404 Not Found
The requested URL '/mailman/create' was not found on this server.

Can not for the life of me figure out why the DocumentRoot is not getting
prepended to the request.  If I knew how it was coming at the server, I might
be able to place something in the config file, but what I've tried hasn't
worked.

If I come at the create with localhost, or 192.168.1.1, I get the following
error:

Error: Unknown virtual host: localhost
Error: Unknown virtual host: 192.168.1.1

I'm about ready to make a boat anchor out of this thing.

MB
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[Mailman-Users] Simple question

[Mike Baumann]

Sorry if this has been asked before but I am new to this list

The instructions for users who need help type help on the subject line 
with a blank message

They get back an email that there message may contain "administrivia"  

Do I have a setting wrong?

Thanks
Mikeß
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[Mailman-Users] unsubscribe

[Mike Rosile]

unsubscribe
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[Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation

[Mike - W0TMW]

I've just started Mailman on a new Fedora 7 box.  It's been quite a 
while since I used MM, my previous box ran on RH9.

There are some things that I need to be refreshed and I haven't found 
them yet in the docs.

1. When creating a new list, must the maillist mail addresses be created 
manually? Can they be aliased to existing e-mail addresses?

2. I seem to remember that MM could be configured for broadcast only, 
i.e., for announcement to a fixed audience.  I don't see that option in 
the admin screens.  How would MM be configured for this use?

Any info will be appreciated.

Mike W

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Mailman after a crash?

[Mike Avery]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> If you have the entire mailman tree, that's it. Just restore it and
> start Mailman.
>
>   


Thanks for the pointers!  We're back on line and my users have stopped 
whinging.

Best wishes,
Mike

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[Mailman-Users] Restoring Mailman after a crash?

[Mike Avery]

Until last week, I was pretty lucky with Mailman.  I installed it, and 
it did its thing.  Beautifully.

Last week my FreeBSD system had a disk crash.  The drive only makes 
sickening clicking sounds and SpinRite can't touch it.

Luckily, I'd been doing weekly backups, so I didn't lose more than a day 
or two of messages.  I backed up by running tar on the entire mailman 
directory structure.  And it's all there!

But, now comes the fun part, how do I recreate the mailing lists, the 
archives, and so on?  Is there a FAQ entry?  If so, I haven't seen it.

Thanks,
Mike

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
>> I'm using this anyway :-)
>>
>> if msg.has_key('x-no-subject-prefix') and msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', 
>> '').lower() == 'yes':
> 
> 
> You don't need to test separately for the presence of the header.
> That's what the second argument to msg.get() is for. It is returned
> when the header named in the first argument isn't present, so the
> above can be simplified to
> 
> if msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', '').lower() == 'yes':
> 
> which is true if and only if there is an 'x-no-subject-prefix' header
> with value 'yes'
> 

Ta.
-- 
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__

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> and add two lines after the comment so it becomes
>>>
>>> def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>> # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
>>> fast
>>> # tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
>>> as the
>>> # list admin).
>>> if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) == None:
>>> return
>>> prefix = mlist.subject_prefix
>>>
>>> If you decide to use a header other than X-No-Archive:, you'd replace
>>> 'x-no-archive' above with the name of that header.
>>>
>> That's just the solution I was looking for, but was being 
>> put off-track by the 1999 solution ...
> 
> 
> Ooops...
> 
> 
> The code above contains a mistake. It will prefix the subject only for
> messages that DO have the X-No-Archive: header. What you want in the
> if test is 
> 
>  if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) <> None:
>  return
> 
> to skip the prefix if the header is not None. Those double negatives
> will get you every time. ;-)
> 

I'm using this anyway :-)

if msg.has_key('x-no-subject-prefix') and msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', 
'').lower() == 'yes':
-- 
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__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Find the lines (watch for wrapping)
> 
> def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
> # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
> fast
> # tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
> as the
> # list admin).
> prefix = mlist.subject_prefix
> 
> and add two lines after the comment so it becomes
> 
> def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
> # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
> fast
> # tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
> as the
> # list admin).
> if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) == None:
> return
> prefix = mlist.subject_prefix
> 
> If you decide to use a header other than X-No-Archive:, you'd replace
> 'x-no-archive' above with the name of that header.
> 

Thank you Mark you wonderful genius - what would this list be without 
your input? That's just the solution I was looking for, but was being 
put off-track by the 1999 solution which, for reference, is here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1999-September/005936.html
-- 
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__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mailman Ver: 2.1.5

Our company now exclusively uses Mailman for it's departmental mailing 
lists and it's done through umbrella lists set up in the same way as the 
org chart for the company.

I have managed to stop all sub-lists from re-archiving mails that have 
been through higher lists by adding an X-No-Archive to mails as soon as 
they're archived so that they only get archived once.

However, Subject Prefixes are giving me a little more hassle.

Currently, if a message goes through the lists "ListA, ListB and ListC" 
on their way to a recipient, the subject line looks like this:

Subject: [ListC][ListB][ListA] $subject

This is getting to be an annoyance for many within the company and I 
would like to get it to ONLY add a subject prefix if it's the first list 
it's been through. So, if you send to ListA, you get [ListA] instead of 
[ListC][ListB][ListA] and if you send to ListB you get [ListB] instead 
of [ListC][ListB].

I have spent a lot of time looking for a solution to this one, but the 
only solution I found is one from 1999 that might or might not work for 
this version of Mailman, but my lack of Python skill is letting me down 
in working it out.

Can anyone offer any help on this?

Roll-on Mailman v3!
-- 
Kind Regards,

__

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> The above is a bit too simple. Something like
>>>
>>> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>> if mlist.umbrella_list:
>>> del msg['x-no-archive']
>>> msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
>>>
>>> is probably better to avoid creating multiple X-No-Archive: headers.
>>>
>>> Also, if you insert the handler prior to 'ToArchive', the message (any
>>> message to an umbrella list) will not be archived at all. If you
>>> insert the handler after 'ToArchive' but prior to 'ToOutgoing', the
>>> message will be archived in the archive of the first umbrella list it
>>> hits, but won't be archived in any subsequent lists which is probably
>>> more like what you want.
>>>
>>
>> This is just what I need, thank you!
>>
>> However it seems that the "if mlist.umbrella_list:" statement is 
>> superfluous. On the assumption that the handler is being inserted AFTER 
>> the first archiving, then surely it's safe to assume that no message 
>> should be archived a second time and so ALL messages should get an 
>> X-No-Archive as soon as they've been archived once.
>>
>> Let me know if I'm off base here.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the long delay in replying. I have been away with no online
> access.
> 
> You are correct for what you want to accomplish. I.e. if you only want
> any message to be archived once in the archive of the first list it
> hits, then it is safe to add the X-No-Archive header to all messages
> after ToArchive and before ToOutging. However, there may be other
> cases where one might have a list (e.g. mailman-users@python.org)
> which is not an umbrella list and which has, e.g. a mail-archive.com
> or some other external archive address as a member to provide a
> searchable archive or some other archiving benefit, and in this case,
> one wouldn't want to send the message to the external archiver with an
> X-No-Archive header.
> 

Thanks for the reply. Since all our lists are archived, this is the way 
we're dealing with it and it has been working well so far.
-- 
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__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Make a custom handler (see
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>)
>> that checks mlist.umbrella_list, and if true add an X-No-Archive:
>> header to the message. E.g.
>>
>> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>if mlist.umbrella_list:
>>msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
>>
>> The handler has to be in the pipeline prior to 'ToArchive'.
> 
> 
> I should know better than to post code when I'm in a hurry, but ...
> 
> The above is a bit too simple. Something like
> 
> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
> if mlist.umbrella_list:
> del msg['x-no-archive']
> msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
> 
> is probably better to avoid creating multiple X-No-Archive: headers.
> 
> Also, if you insert the handler prior to 'ToArchive', the message (any
> message to an umbrella list) will not be archived at all. If you
> insert the handler after 'ToArchive' but prior to 'ToOutgoing', the
> message will be archived in the archive of the first umbrella list it
> hits, but won't be archived in any subsequent lists which is probably
> more like what you want.
> 


This is just what I need, thank you!

However it seems that the "if mlist.umbrella_list:" statement is 
superfluous. On the assumption that the handler is being inserted AFTER 
the first archiving, then surely it's safe to assume that no message 
should be archived a second time and so ALL messages should get an 
X-No-Archive as soon as they've been archived once.

Let me know if I'm off base here.

-- 
Kind Regards,

__

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
>> What I would like to do is filter what gets archived so that if a 
>> message originates in mailman (ie from an umbrella list) it doesn't get 
>> archived.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this isn't what you're asking for, but you could just
> turn off archiving on all the umbrella lists so the posts are only
> archived in the 'final' lists.
> 
> I know this results in duplicate archived messages for different
> 'final' lists, but if I'm a member of listx, I want to see listx posts
> in listx's archive regardless of whether they came directly or via one
> or more umbrellas.
> 

If only it were that easy, the problem I have is that I have list admins 
complaining to me (and my boss' boss) that their archive is polluted 
with messages from top-level lists and they want their archive to just 
contain messages sent directly to their list.
-- 
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__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
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[Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?

[Mike Peachey]

If you assume Mailman is configured for an organisation as a 
hierarchical structure of umbrealla lists.. e.g.:

ALL@ -> Dept1@, Dept2@, Dept3@
Dept1@ -> Dept1admin@, dept1engineers@
Dept2@ -> Dept2admin@, dept2engineers@
Dept3@ -> Dept3admin@, dept3engineers@

When archiving, it can get a bit messy when e-mails to ALL@ get archived 
in all of the sub lists the messages pass through.

What I would like to do is filter what gets archived so that if a 
message originates in mailman (ie from an umbrella list) it doesn't get 
archived.

Any thoughts?

I appreciate this may not be possible.
-- 
Kind Regards,

______

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
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mailman-users@python.org

[Mike Peachey]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Outbound e-mail from Mailman should always bypass any spam filtering 
> stages -- those things should have been done on input and not be 
> necessary to perform a second time.
> 

Outbound messages are not filtered. Messages to it-owner@ from 
it-bounces@ are sent from Mailman to Mailman. They pass through 
filtering on the inbound connection back into Mailman.
-- 
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__

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mailman-users@python.org

[Mike Peachey]

Mike Peachey wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Mike Peachey wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>> This is the problem. Exim is piping mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> to "| /path/to/mail/mailman/ post listname" and it should be piped to
>>>> "| /path/to/mail/mailman/ owner listname".
>>>>
>>> But surely, that would affect a single separate e-mail sent directly to 
>>> list-owner@ ? If I send to that address, delivery succeeds to the 
>>> correct recipients.
>>
>> OK. But then why does your email to listname-owner get properly
>> delivered to the owners, but Mailman's mail to listname-owner get
>> delivered to the list?
>>
> 
> I have discovered that the problem lies with the way SpamAssassin is 
> implemented, but I'm still not sure of the best way around it.
> 
> We use SpamAssassin via Exim's spamd_address directive via a unix 
> socket, so every single e-mail that is received by the mail server is 
> run through SpamAssassin before it's routed. We then use the Spam 
> Filters option in Mailman to filter based on the X-Spam_Bar: header.
> 
> The problem is that when Mailman sends a moderator request, it attaches 
> the moderated message. Mailman sends this message from it-bounces@ to 
> it-owner@ HOWEVER because the original spam message is attached, 
> SpamAssassin marks mailman's "moderator approval needed" message as spam 
> with the relevant headers.
> 
> When this e-mail to it-owner@ is received by Mailman, because it matches 
> the spam filter rules for the it@ list, it holds the message and sends 
> out another moderator request with both previous messages attached.
> 
> This then suggests that we have two options:
> 1. Find a way to stop mailman from attaching the held message to a 
> moderator approval request e-mail
> 2. Find a way to reconfigure Exim & SpamAssassin so that all messages 
> are passed through SpamAssasin, except those that are routed to Mailman, 
> and then use the info available for integrating mailman and SpamAssassin 
> to have Mailman call SpamAssassin itself, although this does seem like a 
> pretty inefficient way to deal with it because everything will still end 
> up going through spamd.
> 
> I heartily appreciate any comments on this as I'm a bit stuck with the 
> best way to proceed.

Or option 3. find a way to get Mailman to ignore the list Spam Filter 
settings for the -owner addresses.
-- 
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__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
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mailman-users@python.org

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> This is the problem. Exim is piping mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> to "| /path/to/mail/mailman/ post listname" and it should be piped to
>>> "| /path/to/mail/mailman/ owner listname".
>>>
>> But surely, that would affect a single separate e-mail sent directly to 
>> list-owner@ ? If I send to that address, delivery succeeds to the 
>> correct recipients.
> 
> 
> OK. But then why does your email to listname-owner get properly
> delivered to the owners, but Mailman's mail to listname-owner get
> delivered to the list?
> 

I have discovered that the problem lies with the way SpamAssassin is 
implemented, but I'm still not sure of the best way around it.

We use SpamAssassin via Exim's spamd_address directive via a unix 
socket, so every single e-mail that is received by the mail server is 
run through SpamAssassin before it's routed. We then use the Spam 
Filters option in Mailman to filter based on the X-Spam_Bar: header.

The problem is that when Mailman sends a moderator request, it attaches 
the moderated message. Mailman sends this message from it-bounces@ to 
it-owner@ HOWEVER because the original spam message is attached, 
SpamAssassin marks mailman's "moderator approval needed" message as spam 
with the relevant headers.

When this e-mail to it-owner@ is received by Mailman, because it matches 
the spam filter rules for the it@ list, it holds the message and sends 
out another moderator request with both previous messages attached.

This then suggests that we have two options:
1. Find a way to stop mailman from attaching the held message to a 
moderator approval request e-mail
2. Find a way to reconfigure Exim & SpamAssassin so that all messages 
are passed through SpamAssasin, except those that are routed to Mailman, 
and then use the info available for integrating mailman and SpamAssassin 
to have Mailman call SpamAssassin itself, although this does seem like a 
pretty inefficient way to deal with it because everything will still end 
up going through spamd.

I heartily appreciate any comments on this as I'm a bit stuck with the 
best way to proceed.
-- 
Kind Regards,

__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
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[Mailman-Users] help please

[Mike Grothem]

Hello,

 

I have the website www.sevensorrows.com <http://www.sevensorrows.com/>  and
it is hosted through superuser.net. I am going to transfer to a new host,
but I am afraid of losing your service and all of my contacts. Is there a
way to save them? I don't even know my username and password with you
because I just login from the link on the my server control panel. I know
that my list is called SevenSorrowsMailingList and my password is ignatius,
but that doesn't login on your site. Do I have a different username on your
site?

 

Thank you

 

God Bless You,

Mike Grothem - Seven Sorrows Catholic Band

www.SevenSorrows.com

"and you yourself a sword shall pierce..." Luke 2:35

 

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[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> This is the problem. Exim is piping mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> to "| /path/to/mail/mailman/ post listname" and it should be piped to
> "| /path/to/mail/mailman/ owner listname".
> 

But surely, that would affect a single separate e-mail sent directly to 
list-owner@ ? If I send to that address, delivery succeeds to the 
correct recipients.

> It is an exim configuration problem.

Still possible, but I'm having trouble seeing how.

> Exim is normally configured with a router and transport for Mailman so
> aliases are not needed, but the router and transport have to be
> correctly configured.
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp>
> for pointers to exim's documentation on setting this up.
> 

I do seem to have it all set up correctly, but feel free to correct me:


MM_HOME=/usr/lib/mailman
MM_UID=mailman
MM_GID=mailman
domainlist mm_domains=company.com
MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
MM_LISTCHK=/var/lib/mailman/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck

mailman_router:
   driver = accept
   domains = +mm_domains
   require_files = MM_LISTCHK
   local_part_suffix_optional
   local_part_suffix = -admin : \
 -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
 -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
 -join  : -leave : \
 -owner : -request   : \
 -subscribe : -unsubscribe
   transport = mailman_transport

mailman_transport:
   driver = pipe
   command = MM_WRAP \
 '${if def:local_part_suffix \
   {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
   {post}}' \
 $local_part
   current_directory = MM_HOME
   home_directory = MM_HOME
   user = MM_UID
   group = MM_GID

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__

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] ImportError: No module named ldap

[Mike Rosile]

Hey Mark I just wanted to thank you for all your help, and give you a
progress update on the situation.  I downloaded an attempted to compile
python-ldap using Ubuntu's OpenLDAP development libs and had no luck.

I then proceeded to download OpenLDAP and compiled it from source.  I
was then able to compile python-ldap without any problem.  I have yet to
actually install the OpenLDAP package that I compiled from source, along
with python-ldap, but hopefully I will soon.  I'll let you know the out
come when I'm finished!

Thanks again!
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mailman-users@python.org

[Mike Peachey]

I am having trouble with held posts for the lists I run at Jennic.

We've recently set up Mailman to run in conjunction with Exim and it's 
working very well (withlist -r is invaluable though), but we're having 
trouble with the moderation because it is ending up in a loop (that 
thankfully stops itself after about 30 iterations) but is nonetheless 
proving to be a big pain.

When a post is received that is held for moderation, an e-mail is sent 
to list-owner, but when that is sent back into mailman for forwarding, 
mailman treats the message as if it was going onto the list and holds it 
(because of the included message that was originally help). This then 
generates another moderation e-mail which is sent to list-owner which is 
then held and so on.

I'm not sure if there is a fundamental failure in my understanding of 
the system of if there's something I've not thought about, but I cannot 
get it to work properly.

I've seen a lot of documentation suggesting that every list should have 
10 aliases in the Exim aliases file for piping into mailman, and -owner 
is included in these, however I think I am right in saying that that 
doesn't apply in this situation because I have configured the Exim 
transport/router as directed to pipe all mail into mailman that hasn't 
been caught by aliases instead.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


P.S. The main issue here is that we run SpamAssassin on the mailserver 
and it adds an X-Spam_Bar header which we then check for in the list 
Spam Filters. Before, every single spam e-mail was generating 30 
moderator requests.. now we have told the lists to discard anything with 
an X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED], but it doesn't just stop the loop, it 
prevents all moderator requests reaching the list owner because in the 
end it seems the moderator requests are trying to head for the lists not 
the list owners. It's all very confuzzling.
-- 
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__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] ImportError: No module named ldap

[Mike Rosile]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Rosile wrote:
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm guessing that the command line python invocation finds the ldap
>>> module because its path is in the PYTHONPATH environment variable.
>>> This doesn't work with the Mailman CGI wrapper because the wrapper
>>> resets PYTHONPATH to contain only the path to the Mailman modules.
>>>
>>> If this is the issue, I suggest you install the ldap module in your
>>> python library site-packages/ directory.
>>>   
>>>   
>> Unfortunately I tried that, both /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages and 
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages, no luck.
>> 
>
>
> Was there a site-packages/ directory in either of these places to begin
> with?
>   
Yes, both locations already had a sites-packages directory, although I'm
not sure if that was the case during the initial install of mailman.
> Is there currently a PYTHONPATH environment variable set in your shell
> pointing to the ldap module?
>   
No, no PYTHONPATH environment variable for my shell or the system.
>
>   
>>> Another possibility is that mailman was configured with a different
>>> python from the current command line python, in which the ldap module
>>> is installed.
>>>   
>>>   
>> Both mailman and python2.4 were installed using binary packages that are 
>> apart of Ubuntu.  Mailman's error log shows the same version as when I 
>> execute python from the command line.  Do you think it would be 
>> beneficial to re-install mailman, perhaps from a tar ball?
>> 
>
>
> No. I don't think this will help, but I do think that possibly
> reinstalling python-ldap will help. How was this initially installed?
> Was it from source or a Debian/Ubuntu package
Yes, python-ldap was also installed as an Ubuntu package.

I do have python2.4 and python2.5 Ubuntu packages installed, however as
far as I can tell *everything* points to python2.4.

The python-ldap module exists in:
/usr/lib/python-support/python-ldap/python2.4
and is named _ldap.so, if that helps any.

I can certainly try a re-install of python-ldap, perhaps this time from
source?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] ImportError: No module named ldap

[Mike Rosile]

Hey Mark, thanks for reply and insight!  Please note my 
comments/questions below:

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I'm guessing that the command line python invocation finds the ldap
> module because its path is in the PYTHONPATH environment variable.
> This doesn't work with the Mailman CGI wrapper because the wrapper
> resets PYTHONPATH to contain only the path to the Mailman modules.
>
> If this is the issue, I suggest you install the ldap module in your
> python library site-packages/ directory.
>   
Unfortunately I tried that, both /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages and 
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages, no luck.
> Another possibility is that mailman was configured with a different
> python from the current command line python, in which the ldap module
> is installed.
>   

Both mailman and python2.4 were installed using binary packages that are 
apart of Ubuntu.  Mailman's error log shows the same version as when I 
execute python from the command line.  Do you think it would be 
beneficial to re-install mailman, perhaps from a tar ball?
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[Mailman-Users] ImportError: No module named ldap

[Mike Rosile]

I'm trying to write to implement LDAPMemberships v3 using Mailman
v2.1.9, but I keep getting an error in the Mailman error log that says
"ImportError: No module named ldap".

For the record, I can import 'ldap' (aka python-ldap) from a regular
python script (from the command line).

I know Mailman uses a cgi wrapper for python, could this be part of the
problem?

Any help would greatly be appreciated!

Below is some relevant output from /var/log/mailman/error, if you need
additional info, please let me know.

Jul 25 15:46:53 2007 admin(12280):

admin(12280): [- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -]
admin(12280): [- Traceback --]
admin(12280): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in
run_main
admin(12280): main()
admin(12280):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 66,
in main
admin(12280): admin_overview()
admin(12280):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 233,
in admin_overview
admin(12280): mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 115,
in __init__
admin(12280): execfile(filename, dict)
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/lists/sgftest/extend.py", line 1,
in ?
admin(12280): from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line
85, in ?
admin(12280): import ldap
admin(12280): ImportError: No module named ldap
admin(12280): [- Python Information -]
admin(12280): sys.version =   2.4.4c1 (#2, Oct 11 2006, 20:00:03)
[GCC 4.1.2 20060928 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.1.1-13ubuntu5)]
admin(12280): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(12280): sys.prefix  =   /usr
admin(12280): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(12280): sys.path=   /usr
admin(12280): sys.platform=   linux2
admin(12280): [- Environment Variables -]
admin(12280):   AUTH_TYPE: Basic
admin(12280):   force_response_1_0: 1
admin(12280):   HTTP_COOKIE: userwdth=null; userfontsz=null; userbg=null
admin(12280):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.0.55 (Ubuntu) DAV/2 SVN/1.4.4
mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.4.4c1 PHP/5.1.6 mod_ssl/2.0.55 OpenSSL/0.9.8b
mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8
admin(12280):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin
admin(12280):   SERVER_SIGNATURE:
admin(12280):   REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(12280):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(12280):   QUERY_STRING:
admin(12280):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0;
Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR
2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; InfoPath.2)



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[Mailman-Users] ImportError: No module named ldap

[Mike Rosile]

I'm trying to write to implement LDAPMemberships v3 using Mailman
v2.1.9, but I keep getting an error in the Mailman error log that says
"ImportError: No module named ldap".

For the record, I can import 'ldap' (aka python-ldap) from a regular
python script (from the command line).

I know Mailman uses a cgi wrapper for python, could this be part of the
problem?

Any help would greatly be appreciated!

Below is some relevant output from /var/log/mailman/error, if you need
additional info, please let me know.

Jul 25 15:46:53 2007 admin(12280):

admin(12280): [- Mailman Version: 2.1.9 -]
admin(12280): [- Traceback --]
admin(12280): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in
run_main
admin(12280): main()
admin(12280):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 66,
in main
admin(12280): admin_overview()
admin(12280):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 233,
in admin_overview
admin(12280): mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 115,
in __init__
admin(12280): execfile(filename, dict)
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/lists/sgftest/extend.py", line 1,
in ?
admin(12280): from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
admin(12280):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line
85, in ?
admin(12280): import ldap
admin(12280): ImportError: No module named ldap
admin(12280): [- Python Information -]
admin(12280): sys.version =   2.4.4c1 (#2, Oct 11 2006, 20:00:03)
[GCC 4.1.2 20060928 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.1.1-13ubuntu5)]
admin(12280): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(12280): sys.prefix  =   /usr
admin(12280): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(12280): sys.path=   /usr
admin(12280): sys.platform=   linux2
admin(12280): [- Environment Variables -]
admin(12280):   AUTH_TYPE: Basic
admin(12280):   force_response_1_0: 1
admin(12280):   HTTP_COOKIE: userwdth=null; userfontsz=null; userbg=null
admin(12280):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.0.55 (Ubuntu) DAV/2 SVN/1.4.4
mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.4.4c1 PHP/5.1.6 mod_ssl/2.0.55 OpenSSL/0.9.8b
mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8
admin(12280):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin
admin(12280):   SERVER_SIGNATURE:
admin(12280):   REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(12280):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(12280):   QUERY_STRING:
admin(12280):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0;
Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR
2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; InfoPath.2)

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[Mailman-Users] Subject Lines Wrapped After Commas, (Like This?)

[Mike Ewall]

I've noticed that on several Mailman lists I'm running, subject lines 
sometimes get chopped after commas or semicolons.  This doesn't 
always happen, though.  It's not just a matter of things being 
chopped after the 78-or-so chars, either.  Sometimes, it's after a single word.

Below are examples from a list I run on ethanol issues.  The first 
batch are examples with commas that came through just fine.  Below it 
are examples where the subject lines got chopped/wrapped 
prematurely.  This always happens at commas or semicolons.

I'm running Mailman version "2.1.9.cp2" (control panel 2?).

Any guidance on how to stop this inappropriate subject line wrapping 
would be much appreciated.

Mike
-


*** THESE CAME THROUGH FINE ***

Subject: [Ethanol] Ethanol plant question,Palestine Il??

Subject: [Ethanol] Barrie, Ontario vs. proposed ethanol plant

Subject: [Ethanol] Jim Dunn vs."dumbest" PA ethanol plans. U.S. Taxpayers
  pay, Russians profit!

Subject: [Ethanol] Tufts' Grant Reid: ETHANOL, SNAKE OIL FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

Subject: [Ethanol] ABC, MSNBC, etc.: Not "green, " ethanol = more smog,
  cancer, death


*** THIS MAY HAVE BEEN CHOPPED DUE TO LENGTH ***

Subject: [Ethanol] UN warns: Biofuels risk farmers, food, environment,
climate


*** THESE WERE CHOPPED AFTER COMMAS OR SEMICOLONS PREMATURELY ***

Subject: [Ethanol] Unlike U.S.,
Canada issues fines for railway ethanol spills

Subject: [Ethanol] Not Iraq,
  is 2008 U.S. election' about who profits most from  ethanol?

Subject: [Ethanol] As in NY,
  Vinod Khosla's CA ethanol plans need "proper environmental review"

Subject: [Ethanol] Genetically Engineered Biofuels: The Next Big,
Dangerous Hoax

Subject: [Ethanol] Wisconsin residents replace local officials,
stop ethanol plant

Subject: [Ethanol] Dover,
  Wisconsin ciizens VOTE on "monster" ethanol plant April  3

Subject: [Ethanol] Cambria,
  Wisconsin CITIZENS vote on a Didion ethanol plant  April 3

Subject: [Ethanol] PA officials snub NC's ethanol-backing,
job-hunting Bill Martin

Subject: [Ethanol] Leaving E85 ethanol "mess" in NC,
Bill Martin job-hunts in PA

Subject: [Ethanol] PA newspaper wins top award;
  blew whistle on secret ethanol  study

Subject: [Ethanol] NY drops ethanol from energy agenda;
favors wind, solar power

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[Mailman-Users] Where's that [EMAIL PROTECTED] horse? Close that stable door!

[Mike Maughan]

It is good practice to keep some part of one's online presence on another
web resource so as to not "put all of ones eggs in the one basket".

I have had this brought home in spades today as dreamhost's Mailman system
is down and of course I could not tell my users ...

As an interim I have set up an announce-only list via yahoogroups; ok for
now but definitely not my preference.  I have also set up a remote
"health-check" for the rest of my servers via host-tracker.com.

My question is, does anyone know of - or operate - an alternative
list-status listserv?

If not, how about an informal list-twinning service?  Pairs of list admins
agree to provide the other with a low traffic text-only list on the other's
servers so we can each maintain an offsite status list?

Wotcha fink, then?

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[Mailman-Users] Changing the name of a list

[Mike Maughan]

Hi all,

Is it possible to change the name of a list?  I don't just mean the 'public
name' but the list itself?

If not, is it possible to export archives from one list to another?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology

[Mike Maughan]

On 23/03/07, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> ^subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$
>
>
Thanks for the fix & the explanation.  Do you know, that's the first time
I've actually understood a pattern search regex?  Wunderbar! :)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology

[Mike Maughan]

Thanks again, Mark.

I've implemented the recommendations; now all I have to do is decipher your
regex :))

- Mike

On 23/03/07, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Maughan wrote:
> >
> >The cases I'd like to trap are:
> >
> >   1. empty subject
> >   2. (no subject)
> >   3. (no_subject)
> >
> >Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
> >something obvious?
>
>
> You can trap all 3 of the above cases with a header_filter_rules rule
> with the regexp
>
> $subject:\s*(\(no[_ ]subject\))?\s*$
>
> but there is a 4th case which this won't get which is the case where
> the message contains no Subject: header at all. See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-March/056119.html>
> fo more information on how to deal with this case.
>
> See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html> for information about
> Python regular expressions.
>
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[Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject, and an apology

[Mike Maughan]

I posted earlier about problems with "(no subject)" postings to my lists,
not complaining about such to  mailman-users, but I wasn't very clear in
what I said so my apologies to anyone who may have been offended.

To restate my problem and renew the request for help (if anyone is still
talking to me, that is :):

I run a number of lists of which two are precursors to wikis, that is the
message threads are copied into the discussion areas of wikis for analysis
and distillation.  One day when I grow up I'm hoping to automate this but
for now it means me copying & pasting.

A couple of recalcitrants continue to post without subjects, which makes my
transcription task that much more difficult.  I've asked them nicely, both
privately & publicly, but it seems they are just too darned idle to bother.

Accordingly, I would like to 'encourage' them to mend their ways by trapping
such posts and rejecting them.  I've tried putting a spam rule as per the
faq, trapping "subject containing .*(no subject)" but no workie.

The cases I'd like to trap are:

   1. empty subject
   2. (no subject)
   3. (no_subject)

Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
something obvious?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject

[Mike Maughan]

JIC anyone was unclear, these problems are on _my_ lists, not on here :)

- Mike

On 22/03/07, Mike Maughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I am aggravated by a few idle list posters who consistently refuse to put
> in a subject in their posts, and I would like to 'encourage' them to mend
> their ways :)
>
> I've tried putting a spam rule as per the faq, trapping subject containing
> .*(no subject) but no workie.
>
> The cases I'd like to trap are:
>
>1. empty subject
>2. (no subject)
>3. (no_subject)
>
> Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
> something obvious?
>
> --
> Regards, Mike
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[Mailman-Users] Trapping posts with no subject

[Mike Maughan]

Hi guys,

I am aggravated by a few idle list posters who consistently refuse to put in
a subject in their posts, and I would like to 'encourage' them to mend their
ways :)

I've tried putting a spam rule as per the faq, trapping subject containing
.*(no subject) but no workie.

The cases I'd like to trap are:

   1. empty subject
   2. (no subject)
   3. (no_subject)

Is there an easy way?  Am I (as has been known on occasion :) missing
something obvious?

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[Mailman-Users] Illegal characters in subscribed name - follow up and resolution

[Mike Maughan]

Hi all,

I reported a problem a few days ago where - due to some finger trouble and
being too tired to check properly -  I had managed to mass-subscribe an id
of the form "username"[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (note the missing '<' at the
start of the email address.  Mailman accepted the subscription and proceeded
to deliver mail BUT would not let me see or manage the sub in the
subscription page.

A further problem was the subscriber was receiving multiple copies of list
posts.

Investigations with the hosting company (dreamhost), mail tests, feedback
from this list and especially some direct & detailed help from Mark
(Shapiro) helped to resolve the problems to be:

1) the mass subscription page will allow one to subscribe illegal or unusual
user names to the list ("username"[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) which do not appear
in the normal subscription table.
- mass unsub will remove such subscriptions
- Mark & others have discussed whether this is a 'bug' or a 'feature' and
will no doubt respond accordingly :)

2) the user's mail rules were found to be creating extra duplicates and have
now been fixed.

Many thanks again for the help & support; it's good to know there are people
'out there' who care ...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who are not subcribed can send a message?

[Mike Brudenell]

Greetings -

On 13 Mar 2007, at 14:27, TRON478 wrote:

> hmmm, ok you are right with the spammers :) but my customer wants  
> to open the list for everyone. but another question: is it possible  
> to work with wildcards or domains like
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or
> cuto.dom
>
> so only acceptance is for the domains above?

Well, as I said in my message...
 "You can use regular expressions here if you wish."
:-)

If you click the "(Details for accept_these_nonmembers)" next to the  
text box you'll see a little additional help, which says:

 "Postings from any of these non-members will be automatically
  accepted with no further moderation applied. Add member addresses
  one per line; start the line with a ^ character to designate a
  regular expression match."

Thus rather than using the limited glob-style pattern matching such as
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
you instead use full regular expression pattern matching such as
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If the local part of the sender addresses (the bit to the left of the  
"@") follows a set pattern for all the customers who can send to the  
list then it might be possible to model that too.  For example, if  
the local part for each customer was of the form "initals.surname"  
then you might like to try something like:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and thus prevent postings from "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" (because "joe" doesn't  
match this format).

You will need to read up on the syntax used for these regular  
expressions.  For example "." means "any one character", whereas "\."  
means "the single character which really is a '.'"

Cheers,
Mike B-)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How can i make a list public so people who are not subcribed can send a message?

[Mike Brudenell]

Greetings -

On 13 Mar 2007, at 10:09, TRON478 wrote:

> i need the following scenario:
>
> someone should be able to send to the list while he is not  
> subscribed to the
> list.
>
> This seems to works, but the list admin must approve this. Is it  
> possible
> WITHOUT approval?

If you want ALL non-members to be able to post to the list then  
change the setting which is currently telling Mailman to put messages  
from non-members on hold until they are approved:

Go to the list's management pages, then
--> Privacy Options
--> Sender filters
--> Change "Action to take for postings from non-members for which no  
explicit action is defined. (Details for generic_nonmember_action)"  
setting from "Hold" to "Accept".

Then sit back and wait for spammers to find your list's address:  
their junk will then be immediately distributed to all the list's  
members.  :-}


Alternatively if you only want SOME non-members to be able to post to  
the list then, on the same page as above, put their e-mail addresses  
into the "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be  
automatically accepted. (Details for accept_these_nonmembers)" text  
box.  You can use regular expressions here if you wish.

...And just hope the spammers don't happen to forge messages to your  
list as being from one of these addresses.  :-}


Cheers,
Mike B-)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] my second problem: in the emails is my local hostname !?!?

[Mike Brudenell]

Greetings -

I fell into this problem too.  If memory serves it is because the  
DEFAULT_URL_HOST is used at *list creation* time to populate an entry  
its settings files.  Changing the DEFAULT_URL_HOST later only affects  
lists you create subsequently.

You need to run a script to fix up the URLs in the lists you have  
already created:

 bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname

To see the help text for the above run it directly, without the  
withlist:

 bin/fix_url.py

I think there was a second, related Gotcha that caught me too...  If  
your existing lists have archives then the pages already generated  
will have the wrong web server URL too.  (Check some of the links  
down at the bottom of their pages.)  If that's the case for you then  
you need to wipe and rebuild the HTML pages for each list's archives  
from its mbox file:

 bin/arch --wipe listname

I'd suggest trying each of the above on an unimportant or test list  
first to make sure I've got things right!

Cheers,
Mike B-)


On 13 Mar 2007, at 10:15, TRON478 wrote:

> i get subscription mails which are like this one:
>
>
> To post to this list, send your email to:
>
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> General information about the mailing list is at:
>
>  http://xlistsrv.site/mailman/listinfo/test
>
> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
> subscription page at:
>
>
>
> You see the response address is my internet domainname, this is  
> correct. But
> the mailinglist admin site is my local hostname.
>
> This is my mm_cfg file:
>
> IMAGES_LOGOS = '/icons/'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.interactive-ip.eu'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.interactive-ip.eu'
> MTA='Postfix'
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.interactive-ip.eu']
> add_virtualhost('lists.interactive-ip.eu', 'lists.interactive-ip.eu')
>
> i think it seems to be correct, but something must be wrong. What  
> could it
> be? Can you help. Thank you

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[Mailman-Users] Removing illegal character or duplicated user names - update

[Mike Maughan]

To update you on this issue, I have a user whom I managed to subscribe
incorrectly to the list and now cannot remove her.  There appear to be two
hidden subscriptions, neither of which appear in the subscriptions page.

If I leave her normal sub active, she gets three copies of list messages; if
I suspend mail on her (visible) account, she gets 2 copies.

I have diff-ed the full messages she receives in the case of 3 copies, and
apart from some oddments to do (I think) with MIME all emails are identical,
which means the recipient addresses & timestamps are identical ==> all three
emails were produce for the same recipient at the same time by the list
manager.  BTW I've added one of the diff contents to the end of this post
FYI.

My best understanding as of now is that I have managed (by attempting to
subscribe with illegal characters via the mass subscribe) to create two
hidden subscriptions which are active but unmanageable.  I can only see two
possible ways to address this:
1) edit the system-level data defining the subscribers - problematic as I'm
on dreamhost and do not have sysadmin access to the underlying data
2) find a way to create a pattern-match input to 'mass unsubscribe' which
would find and remove the entries.

Speculative scenario: if there are now three identical IDs in the underlying
database, the system may be unable to key on these in order to do anything
with them, but will process them sequentially when creating outgoing posts.

I have copies of the original outbound posts as received by Viv (my
subscriber), plus my diff files, if they are of any use, but as they contain
subscriber data I'm uncomfortable posting them public.

Any thoughts on how to proceed here?  Pretty please? :)

- Mike

Compare: (<)G:\Downloads\!in\viv hart list dupe #1.eml (4765 bytes)
   with: (>)G:\Downloads\!in\viv hart list dupe #3.eml (4765 bytes)

42c42
< boundary="=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630"
---
> boundary="=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630"
52,57c52,57
< --=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630
< Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
< boundary="=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630"
<
<
< --=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630
---
> --=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630"
>
>
> --=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630
81c81
< --=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630
---
> --=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630
105,107c105,107
< --=_NextPart_001_006F_01C76497.A8D09630--
<
< --=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630
---
> --=_NextPart_001_0079_01C76497.A8D09630--
>
> --=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630
119c119
< --=_NextPart_000_006E_01C76497.A8D09630--
---
> --=_NextPart_000_0078_01C76497.A8D09630--


On 11/03/07, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Maughan wrote:
> >
> >It is also possible I've discovered a bug, in which case the
> circumstances
> >were a mass subscribe exercise where (in this case) I forgot to add a
> space
> >between the username and the email address, so the input line looked like
> >this "User"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and the list added them as this "User"
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> I can't quite duplicate this. If I try to add "User"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> I add [EMAIL PROTECTED] with real name User as expected even though
> there is no separating space.
>
> However, I can add "User"[EMAIL PROTECTED]> or "User"[EMAIL PROTECTED],
> and the address "User"[EMAIL PROTECTED] gets added with no real name.
> This too is what I would expect (I don't know if we should disallow "
> in an email address).
>
> The problem, the underlying cause of which I haven't yet identified (it
> probably messes up the post data from the web page), is it appears
> that you can't remove a user with who has a " in the email address by
> checking the unsub box on the membership list. However, you can remove
> this member by entering the address in Mass Removal.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
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