Re: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports

[Scott Neader]

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 2:55 AM Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:

> Have you had any luck with this in the last couple of days?
>

Hi Stephen (and all).  Indeed, I am having MUCH luck with this!  First, the
option to base64 encode the recipient's email as a new header with the
RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME config setting (discussed in my last post) is
working great!  In addition, as you mentioned, I am ALSO getting lucky in
reviewing the headers for the queue id... and I am using this successfully
on one older server that has an older version of Mailman (which does not
have the base64 option).

So, I am in really good shape at this point... thank you!!!

- Scott

Scott Neader writes:
>
>  > I have Personalization enabled, and have the subscriber's email
>  > address in the footer, but Comcast redacts the email address.
>  > Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net users on this
>  > list, making this really difficult to find the offender.
>
> Does the returned mail contain the full trace of "Received" fields?
> If you're very lucky, one of them may contain the offender's address.
>
> Otherwise, the oldest one frequently has an MTA queue id from your MTA
> (and depending on your network, there may be a couple of these under
> your control in the Received chain), and that can be matched with the
> queue id in the MTA's log, which will typically tell you who it was
> sent to.  Since you have full personalization enabled, there should be
> one such queue id per message.  Here is an example of my own:
>
> Received: from steve by turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 4.92)
> (envelope-from )
> id 1htOUc-Rx-F5; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 12:44:34 +0900
>
> 2019-08-02 12:44:39 1htOUc-Rx-F5 => mailman-develop...@python.org
> R=dn...
>
> The log line is truncated by me since the rest is irrelevant, the MTA
> is Exim.  Note that some MTAs don't do this, some MTAs don't do it by
> default, but you can reconfigure the log message and the Received
> header this way.  And some MTAs that do it change the prefix or suffix
> of the queue id at various stages, so you may need to search on a
> truncated portion of the full id.
>
>  > I've read through the Mailman Users archives and have seen others with
> this
>  > problem, and it seems some of you have come up with your own creative
>  > solutions, but no solutions have been posted,
>
> Here's a partial solution from Mailman-Developers:
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2012-June/022200.html
>
> (the "partial" is because you'll have to come up with your own way to
> iterate over the mailing list and match MD5s).  I suspect you can get
> the same effect by base64- or base85-encoding the email address, or
> even simply %-encoding (or removing!) all the punctuation, instead of
> MD5-ing.  Those are easily reversible, and the punctuation-munging
> solutions can be "decoded" by eye!
>
> Note that it's barely possible you're using the Sendmail.py module, in
> which case you will have the line "DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'" in
> mm_cfg.py.  If so, come back and we can discuss the "cons" (there are
> no "pros") of that module, and what to do next.
>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports

[Scott Neader]

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:24 AM David Gibbs via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 11:40 PM Scott Neader  wrote:
> > Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
> > 'mark-as-spammer'?  Could I hack something together temporarily that
> would
> > put maybe the first few characters of their email in the footer? (so that
> > Comcast won't sense it as an email and won't redact it?)  Other ideas?
>
> Check out the RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME setting in Defaults.py.  That
> will let you tag personalized & verped deliveries with the base64
> encoding of the recipient's email address.


I want to send a BIG thanks to David Gibbs on this one.  This actually
worked perfectly!  The body of the FBL report shows just the basic To,
From, Subject, Date/Time and Body, so I did not think adding a new header
would do diddly-squat.  I *wrongly* assumed that the FBL reports do not
include any header information.  David and I traded some direct emails on
the topic and he finally convinced me to do a "View Original" or "View
Source" (depending on your email client) on the FBL report from Comcast and
low and behold... the full headers are exposed... not only from the FBL
itself, but *also* from the original offending message that the ISP
forwarded in the FBL.  So, you have two sets of headers to scroll
through... but, sure enough, my new header was there, exposing the culprit
list subscriber that was flagging all emails as spam.

Here's a step-by-step (not hard) to get this going:

1) At the server level, Personalization or VERP must be enabled. I chose
Personalization since I already had it enabled.  This is done by adding
"OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes" to mm_cfg.py
2) At the list level, Personalization needs to be set to Yes (Non-Digest
options > Personalize)
3) At the server level, add " RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME = 'X-Mailman-R-Data'
" to mm_cfg.py

This will add a new header to each email, like this:

X-Mailman-R-Data: Ym9ndXNzcGFtcmVwb3J0ZXJAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ=
>

 My next goal is to try VERP, and see if I can use that to find the
habitual "mark as spam" folks on some Digest emails. Personalization
doesn't work for Digests, but maybe VERP will?

Again, thanks David Gibbs for sticking with me on this!!

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports

[Scott Neader]

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:38 PM Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org> wrote:

> On 8/5/19 10:14 PM, Scott Neader wrote:
> > Hi all!  I have a list member with a comcast.net email address that is
> > marking most every list message as spam.  I have Personalization enabled,
> > and have the subscriber's email address in the footer, but Comcast
> redacts
> > the email address.  Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net
> users
> > on this list, making this really difficult to find the offender.
>
> Oy vey!
>
> > Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
> > 'mark-as-spammer'?
>
> Are you using VERP?  I would think that the VERP data would survive
> Comcast's redaction.
>

I appreciate the suggestion, but VERP (as I understand it) changes the
return-path.  I do not get to see any headers, including return-path, other
than the ones I mentioned (To, From, CC, BCC, Subject and the Body
itself).  So, I do not believe VERP will help.

I need a way to put some clue about the recipient into the footer, when
personalization is enabled.  I've seen some past solutions where admins
were successful in adding some type of hash or encoded version of the
recipient's email address into the footer, but the steps to get that done
were not shared.  Open to other ideas.

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports

[Scott Neader]

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:24 AM David Gibbs via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 11:40 PM Scott Neader  wrote:
> > Do any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
> > 'mark-as-spammer'?  Could I hack something together temporarily that
> would
> > put maybe the first few characters of their email in the footer? (so that
> > Comcast won't sense it as an email and won't redact it?)  Other ideas?
>
> Check out the RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME setting in Defaults.py.  That
> will let you tag personalized & verped deliveries with the base64
> encoding of the recipient's email address.
>

Thanks, David!  Unfortunately, Comcast does not supply the full email with
headers.  It only supplies the FROM, TO, CC, BCC, DATE and SUBJECT lines,
plus the BODY. Unless I'm missing something... adding a new header won't
help.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, or if anyone has any ideas on
getting this info into the footer.

Here's an example Comcast FBL report. As you can see, full headers are not
revealed. They even redact the name of the list, but based on the Subject
line, that has been easy to determine.

This is a Comcast Abuse Report for an email message received from domain
> example.com, IP 1.2.3.4, on Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:57:45 +.
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Some User 
> To: c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17 <
> c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3...@myserver.com>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:57:45 +
> Subject: [c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17] This is the Subject
> Body Content is Here
>
> __
> c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17 mailing list
> List Info:
> http://myserver.com/mailman/listinfo/c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3c17
> Post: mailto:c0821b696901c42c9a510bec8e5a3...@myserver.com
>

Again, any ideas or help appreciated!

- Scott
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[Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports

[Scott Neader]

Hi all!  I have a list member with a comcast.net email address that is
marking most every list message as spam.  I have Personalization enabled,
and have the subscriber's email address in the footer, but Comcast redacts
the email address.  Unfortunately, there are quite a few comcast.net users
on this list, making this really difficult to find the offender.

I've read through the Mailman Users archives and have seen others with this
problem, and it seems some of you have come up with your own creative
solutions, but no solutions have been posted, hence my request here.  Do
any of you have any ideas for me to identify this serial
'mark-as-spammer'?  Could I hack something together temporarily that would
put maybe the first few characters of their email in the footer? (so that
Comcast won't sense it as an email and won't redact it?)  Other ideas?

Thank you in advance!

- Scott
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[Mailman-Users] digest_send_periodic not sending digests daily when set to Yes

[Scott Neader]

Hi all.  Running Mailman v2.1.26 on CentOS 6.  When the list
has digest_send_periodic set to Yes, and a size of 100kb, users are seeing
digests with upwards of a week's worth of mail, if the list has been
quiet.  i.e. it seems to be respecting the 100kb limit, but not
the digest_send_periodic setting as Yes (to send the digest daily, no
matter the size.)  I've confirmed that the senddigests cron runs every day
at Noon.

Any ideas on other things to check?

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Retention policy for archives

[Scott Neader]

I love this idea.  If anyone actually modifies the script to do this,
please let me know.  At the very least, it preserves the "history" that the
message existed, along with the subject line.  Sometimes, that is enough to
be very helpful!

- Scott

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org> wrote:

> On 01/16/2018 11:17 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> The down side of this is each time you run it, the messages in the
>> archive will be renumbered and prior saved URLs to archived messages will
>> no longer work.
>>
>
> It seems like it would be possible to augment the prune_arch script to add
> place holder messages for pruned messages thus making sure that the prior
> saved URLs would still be valid.  I.e.:
>
> | From:  Pruned 
> | To: Mail List 
> | Subject: Pruned
> | Date: $originalDate
> |
> | This message has been pruned from the archive.
>
> I think that the ~160 bytes that each pruned message would consume would
> be worth retaining the functionality of the prior saved URLs.
>
> Just my 2¢ worth.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Targeted attack against german universities using mailman

[Scott Neader]

>
> On May 9, 2017, at 8:17 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn 
> wrote:
> >
> > The bigger issue is that clearly the admin addresses of all lists were
> scraped from the public listinfo pages. This means that the same thing
> could happen again anytime. :-(
>


> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Bryan Blackwell 
>  wrote:
> Some years ago I ran into this problem, we turned off all the "Advertise
> this list" options and instead refer to them from other general info pages
> for the group.  That cut down the spam to the lists, admins, and -owners
> addresses considerably.
>

Another option to help with the "listinfo admin email scraping" issue is to
enable Moderation on the admin email address(es) that are listed on the
public listinfo pages.  So, regular members can post freely, but if the
admin posts, he/she needs to approve their own post.

If the admin is a regular poster he/she could create a forwarder of some
type, and only list the forwarder as the admin (and moderate it), then
subscribe to the list with their regular address and make that
unmoderated.  This way, they can post with their primary email address, but
also receive any administrative emails.

Hope this makes sense.

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] list-admin on gmail ?

[Scott Neader]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Håkon Alstadheim via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org> wrote:

> I have a list administrator who is on gmail. Forwarding held spam-messages
> to him does not work, since google rejects mail that has spam attached. Is
> it possible to send notification of pending actions *without* attaching the
> held message?


Hi Håkon.

This is an interesting question, and I'm interested in the answer.
However, since your user happens to be using GMail, you DO have a good
option to solve this:

The approval emails will come from:

FROM: listname-ow...@example.com


The GMail user can simply create a "Filter" in GMail, that looks for
messages "from:listname-ow...@example.com" and check the box that says
"Never send it to Spam".  Here's how:

http://blog.simplelists.com/make-sure-real-emails-dont-get-sent-to-spam-gmail-2015/

- Scott
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[Mailman-Users] How to track down Digest spam reporter

[Scott Neader]

We have a fairly active mailing list where at least one Hotmail user is
marking every Digest message they receive as "spam".  We receive the
reports from Hotmail, but we have no way of knowing which subscriber is
causing these spam reports (or we'd remove them, of course).

Normally we can turn on "Personalization" and add the subscriber's email
address to the footer... but this can't be done for Digests. Any other
ideas on how we can track down this spam reporter and get them off the
list, short of moving every Hotmail user off the digests?  And, as a side
question, I'm curious about the technical reasons why Personalization can't
be available for Digests.

Thanks, in advance!

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Scott Neader]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Lindsay Haisley  wrote:

> Scott, I apologize to you, and to anyone else, if you feel that I was
> looking down on you. It was not my intent. I have my opinions about
> Linux and system administration, and they're not shared by everyone.
> ...
> Again, I'm sorry for any insult or offense to anyone on this list.
>

...and I didn't intend to pin that on you... was more thanking Mark for
being patient and understanding on this situation.   But... apology
certainly accepted, since you offered.  Thanks!


> Can I have some barbecue sauce on my crow ;)
>

Only if you'll share. I eat plenty of that fine cuisine myself.

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Scott Neader]

On 01/17/2017 08:57 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

> > This all underscores the problems of relying on other people's
> > organization, and the resulting dependency on other people's confusion
> > that comes from blind reliance on über-packages (especially proprietary
> > über-packages) such as cPanel which obfuscate and complicate solutions
> > to simple problems. The following quoted "explanation", presumably from
> > cPanel, is a perfect example. Exactly _which_ python DNS module are we
> > talking about here? It's clear as mud!
>

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Agreed, but such packaged solutions have a place. I don't know what
> Scott's situation is or his reasons for using cPanel, but I know Brian
> operates a shared hosting service, and I know from his participation on
> this list that he is conscientious in providing good service to his
> customers, and without something like cPanel, his business might not be
> viable.


Same situation as Brian... we are a provider of shared hosting services
(since 1996).  Like Brian's business, we also strive to provide excellent
service to our customers, which drove me to dig into this situation.

You are correct that we'd have no business, without a "control panel" for
our hosting customers to use.  cPanel does an outstanding job, considering
all the piece-parts that come together... their 'eco-system' is normally
very reliable and well tested.  I also am a list owner of several lists,
and was personally seeing the effects of the lack of munging.

Thanks for your support and understanding, Mark, and especially for not
making us feel bad or looking down upon us for utilizing such a control
panel system to support our customers and their myriad needs.

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Scott Neader]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 01/16/2017 07:29 PM, Scott Neader wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Also, in this case try
> >>
> >> python -c "import dns.resolver"
> >>
> >> to see if it reports any error.
> >>
> >
> > Yes... not good results:
> >
> > # python -c "import dns.resolver"
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "", line 1, in 
> > ImportError: No module named dns.resolver
>
>
> If this is cPanel, it is almost certainly a bad cPanel update, but see
> the posts at
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-January/081826.html>
> and
> <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2017-January/081827.html
> >.
>
> Basically, your installation lost the dnspython module
> <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dnspython/1.15.0> and you need to
> reinstall it.


Thanks, Mark.  I'm opening a ticket with cPanel and will share the results
with the group.  I appreciate you narrowing down the problem!

- Scott
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[Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Scott Neader]

I'm using Mailman version 2.1.23.  Since late 2014, I've been successfully
using the "Munge From" option under Privacy Options > Sender filters >
"Action to take when anyone posts to the list from a domain with a DMARC
Reject/Quarantine Policy."  Mail from users using AOL, Yahoo and others
with a DMARC policy of quarantine or reject had the FROM field munged:

FROM: John Doe 

becomes

FROM: John Doe via Listname 

Again, this has been working GREAT for over two years.  Now, mysteriously,
this has stopped working. When yahoo.com or AOL.com users post to our
lists, the Munging is not working.  When I query for a DMARC record from
the mail server, it can see the record, so I think it's not a resolver
issue.

I'm really stumped... any pointers/ideas on where to look would be greatly
appreciated!

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] problem with Digest options

[Scott Neader]

I had this same problem on a cPanel server.  Turned out to be the mailman 
cron job was disappearing... was traced to a problem in a cPanel update 
script.  Not sure if you are running cPanel or not.  If you are, you should 
upgrade cPanel, as this problem has been fixed for about a month or so.  If 
you are not running cPanel, then you might still check your mailman cron job.

- Scott
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At 07:30 AM 7/27/2004 -0400, you wrote:
I submitted a post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday and it appeared in the
Archive.
However, it was not sent out to the Digest mailing list until I triggered
its so doing manually.
However,in the Digest options I have the item checked for it to send out
the digest daily even if the messages do not meet the limit.
we are running 2.14

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