Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple domains
Thanks for the clarifications, Mark. I had actually forgotten that the way I
formatted the Virtual_Hosts line was equivalent to providing individual
add_virtualhost lines. So, you undoubtedly saved me some grief there.
Those few lines you see in my apache-postfix-mailman setup files only took
me a week to figure out through web research and trial and error without
pestering you for help. You were so helpful and generous with your support
in June and July, I didn't want to show up at your door with hat in hand
expecting you to lead me by the nose through this setup as well.
As far as the apache config goes, I deliberately opted to put the mailman
commands in individual virtual host files because I don't necessarily plan
to make mailman available to every domain on my server until I've learned
more about how its setup needs to work. For that reason (and since the
Debian definition readily supports it, I chose to install the mailman
definitions domain-by-domain rather than place them at a higher level in the
Apache Definitions and grant them automatically to ALL domains.
And yes, for the record, you're right. I realize these lines:
Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
#AddDefaultCharset Off
/Directory
do nothing at the moment. I included them as a reminder to myself that
additional definitions that involve a single mailman domain CAN be included
in Apache's VirtualHost definition files. I believe the post where I found
those example lines recommended adding them as part of a solution designed
to support multiple character sets and languages. As I recall, there may
also need to be an appropriate character set defined for EACH language as
well. In short I retained those lines as a form of reminder -- a footprint
in the sand if you will.
As always, thanks for your thoughtful, wise and astute guidance, Mark.
Please keep eating your wheaties, friend. I'm afraid mailman would soon be
unusable without your amazing knowledge and insight at the support helm! :-)
Best Professional Regards,
Greg
-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 11:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Scott Race'
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple domains
TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote:
VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'firstdomain.net':'firstdomain.net',
'seconddomain.com':'seconddomain.com',
'thirddomain.com':'thirddomain.com'}
Just FYI the abbove is EXACTLY eqiivalent to
VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {}
add_virtualhost('firstdomain.net', 'firstdomain.net')
add_virtualhost('seconddomain.com', 'seconddomain.com')
add_virtualhost('thirddomain.com', 'thirddomain.com')
I.e. all add_virtualhost() does is add an entry to the VIRTUAL_HOSTS
dictionary with key = the first arg and value = the second arg.
At this point I only have the mailman list for one of these domains
working.
If I understand the requirements correctly, I will eventually need to add
add_virtualhost lines for
add_virtualhost('www.seconddomain.com', 'seconddomain.com')
add_virtualhost('www.thirddomain.com','thirddomain.com')
Actually, these conflict mildly with what you have. The issue is how
you want to access the web interface for these domains.
http://seconddomain.com/mailman/... or
http://www.seconddomain.com/mailman/... . If the former, you want what
you have now or what I indicated was equivalent. If the latter, you
want what you have immediately above, but you probably don't want both.
Other than those changes which I expect to need to make, the way I have it
configured now seems to be working.
There were also setup requirements in Apache's virtualhost definition files
too. But the way this is setup is unique on Debian. So I won't try to
explain it except to say Apache's VirtualHost definition files need these
lines included:
## Mailman Setup
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
Yes, you need the above, but not necessarily in each VirtualHost
section. You can have it just once outside of the VirtualHost
sections.
Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
#AddDefaultCharset Off
/Directory
The above 3 lines appear to do nothing.
--
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Seeking qfiles/shunt recovery advice.
As usual, you're right, Mark. That fixed it. As a result, I was able to recover at least some of the archived messages from September and many of the October messages that occurred during the resurrection and testing period too. My trouble here was I could find no docs about shunt to guide me and never realized unshunt existed until I saw your note. I went for help to the only place I knew of where mailman's command line utilities were listed: www.gnu.org/software/mailman/site.html Shunt isn't even mentioned there. Next, I checked the Installation Docs again. No mention of the command line utilities there at all. Then I tried going to man shunt and struck out there as well. You know, Mark, the trouble with the knowledge base surrounding mailman is there's an excess of knowledge but not enough base in any one spot to enable one to find the 'firmly grounded' answers one needs. It's way too 'swampy' in many places. In fact, it reminds me of the way my father-in-law (a lifelong soil scientist) used to describe the Rio Grande... Too thick to drink and too thin to plow! ;-) Without your patient and expert guidance, mailman would be nearly impossible to install and use. Thanks again for your patience and help! -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Seeking qfiles/shunt recovery advice. TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: Now that my archiver is working again, I have several files in qfiles/shunt that I'd like to recover and convince mailman to insert into my (now working) October archive. If it's possible to do so, I also have a few shunted files from the end of September that I'd like to recover and have included in the September archive as well. Can anyone point me to a post that explains how to retrieve and recover pck files from the qfiles/shunt directory and convince ARCHrunner to try processing them again? Run Mailman's bin/unshunt --help In this case all you should need to do is put the old *.pck files from the old shunt directory into the current shunt directory along with the current shunted *.pck files and run 'bin/unshunt'. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
Thanks, Mark. That's all I needed to know! -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: I've probably just misunderstood something here... blah... blah... blah... ...when I asked about ownership and permissions and mentioned the UserAccount/mailman directory, that's the directory I was referring to. Sorry if I confused you. :-( Should I just remove that spare mailman directory from the user's space now? The only thing there is the mailman/mail/mailman wrapper whose sole purpose is to be SETGID mailman so that mail delivery runs in the mailman group. Since this wrapper isn't SETGID or group mailman, it wouldn't work in this installation anyway, so yes, just remove this directory. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple domains
I'm running MM 2.1.11 on Debian Etch4.0r3 with Postfix 2.3.8. I hesitate to
explain how I made this work... In fact perhaps I shouldn't. It could jinx
me. But in our case, I've got the individual LOCAL virtual email addresses
for each domain defined in the /etc/postfix/virtual file and I've allowed
mailman to define the local virtual email addresses IT needs for the same
domain in the /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman file. These lists are
mapped to postfix .db files /etc/postfix/virtual.db and
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db
These files are defined this way in /etc/postfix/main.cf:
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
and in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py they're defined this way:
#
# Virtual domains
#
# Set up your virtual host mappings here. This is primarily used for the #
thru-the-web list creation, so its effects are currently fairly limited.
# Use add_virtualhost() call to add new mappings. The keys are strings as #
determined by Utils.get_domain(), the values are as appropriate for #
DEFAULT_HOST_NAME.
# VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'lists.example.com':'example.com',
# 'lists.somethingelse.com':'somethingelse.com'}
VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {'firstdomain.net':'firstdomain.net',
'seconddomain.com':'seconddomain.com',
'thirddomain.com':'thirddomain.com'}
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
MTA = 'Postfix'
#
# added this line to enable POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS # details see:
www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html
# also: www.howtoforge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5311
# POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['',]
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['firstdomain.net', 'seconddomain.com',
'thirddomain.com']
# Are archives public or private by default?
# 0=public, 1=private
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1
# ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX
#-1 - do not do any archiving
# 0 - do not archive to mbox, use builtin mailman html archiving only # 1 -
do not use builtin mailman html archiving, archive to mbox only # 2 -
archive to both mbox and builtin mailman html archiving.
# See the settings below for PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and
# PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER which can be used to replace mailman's
# builtin html archiving with an external archiver. The flat mail
# mbox file can be useful for searching, and is another way to
# interface external archivers, etc.
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
At this point I only have the mailman list for one of these domains working.
If I understand the requirements correctly, I will eventually need to add
add_virtualhost lines for
add_virtualhost('www.seconddomain.com', 'seconddomain.com')
add_virtualhost('www.thirddomain.com','thirddomain.com')
Other than those changes which I expect to need to make, the way I have it
configured now seems to be working.
There were also setup requirements in Apache's virtualhost definition files
too. But the way this is setup is unique on Debian. So I won't try to
explain it except to say Apache's VirtualHost definition files need these
lines included:
## Mailman Setup
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
#AddDefaultCharset Off
/Directory
I HOPE I've got this right. Most of all, I hope this helps you, Scott.
Good Luck!
-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:13 PM
To: Scott Race
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple domains
Scott Race wrote:
Thanks, fixed the domain name in the mm_cfg.py to read
['second-domain.com'].
Running the /bin/genaliases doesn't return an error, but doesn't
generate the /data/virtual-mailman file. The mailman error logs don't
show anything (no errors since Oct 22).
Sounds like the virtual-mailman file missing is my main problem, huh?
Yes.
Go to the list's General Options page and look near the bottom at Host
name this list prefers for email.. Does this match second-domain.com?
What you ultimately need to do to configure all this depends on whether
or not you will have multiple Mailman domains or a single Mailman
domain.
If there is only a single mailman domain = second-domain.com you want
something like
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.second-domain.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'second-domain.com'
add_virtual_hosts(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
in mm_cfg.py
and then run
bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url
to fix the web_page_url and host_name attributes of all the lists.
If you have more Mailman domains, it's more complex, but until you have
the proper host_name for your lists, genaliases won't create/update
virtual-mailman.
--
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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[Mailman-Users] Hurray! My archive works again... User warning for check_perms!
I'm pleased to report my mailman archive update process is working again. As it turned out, what was keeping the feature from working was ownership and/or permissions on files in /usr/mailman/archives/private/[LISTNAME] and /usr/mailman/archives/private/[LISTNAME]/database directories. Somehow, (I'm not sure how) many -- but not all -- files in those directories were owned by root rather than by mailman and many of them also had permissions of 644 (rw-r--r--) RATHER than 664 (rw-rw-r--). That has been corrected now and ALL files in the mailman directory structure are now owned by mailman PLUS the permissions on virtually all data files are 664 and not 644. This issue apparently goes back to when mailman was first laid down on our old server in the early summer; because a check of the last backup taken from the old server at the end of September shows ALL files in those directories were owned by root and not by mailman. That was CLEARLY caused by some error I made when installing and setting up mailman. I added, the User warning for check_perms because although the perms shown on that final old-server backup were 664 for all mailman files in /usr/mailman/archives/private/mylist directory and 660 for all files in /usr/mailman/archives/private/mylist/database and check_perms reported No Problems Found, check_perms was flat wrong about that. The ownership on ALL those files was wrong but check_perms failed to detect and report that issue. This issue has been reported and should soon be fixed. But in the meantime be cautions about putting too much faith in check_perms in mailman v2.1.11. The data files in those directories must ALL be owned by mailman. In our case they were owned by ROOT! That prevented mailman's ARCHrunner from updating the archive and produced the same errors every day for almost 3 months when mailman tried to update the archive. The errors were recorded each day in the mailman error log (/usr/local/mailman/logs/error); but I never checked the error log! Duhhh! Also, because of those errors the archives were not updated for 3 months and mailman's automatic cleanup process was systematically discarding ALL new posts that hadn't been updated after 7 days. Sadly, neither I nor anyone else was checking the archive either. Double Duhhh!! So, in the end we lost 3 months worth of archive updates. The lessons here are: 1.Just because check_perms reports No Problems Found, don't assume everything is set right or working correctly. CHECK THE ERROR LOG and CHECK THE ARCHIVES! Then, DOUBLE-CHECK both the file and directory permissions and OWNERSHIPs in the archive directories for each of your mailman lists. There is a post in the archives that briefly explains exactly what permissions should be for both files and directories. You'll find that post here: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-October/063748.html. 2. If you don't understand why your list's permissions and ownerships are set the way they are, keep asking questions until you DO understand. Otherwise you may wake up one day as I did and need to explain to your client why 3 months of their conversations have unexpectedly gone missing. :-( A word to the wise. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Seeking qfiles/shunt recovery advice.
Now that my archiver is working again, I have several files in qfiles/shunt that I'd like to recover and convince mailman to insert into my (now working) October archive. If it's possible to do so, I also have a few shunted files from the end of September that I'd like to recover and have included in the September archive as well. Under the circumstances, I'd rather not attack this using a trial and error process. Can anyone point me to a post that explains how to retrieve and recover pck files from the qfiles/shunt directory and convince ARCHrunner to try processing them again? Thanks! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
I'm sorry to turn up in your support forum again, Mark. I've fought hard here to try to avoid that. The truth is it was our struggle with trying to configure my old server for mailman back in June and July that proved to be the straw that broke the camel's back with my old dedicated server hosting service. In early July I asked them about getting an updated server and software but the price they quoted was so darn high I decided to bail out on them and ended up choosing a hosting company that provided much more server for the $ plus the latest version of Debian Etch (rather than the 5 year old version of RedHat I was running) for the same price I'd been paying to my old hosting service. The BIG difference was I had to take full admin responsibility for my server setup and configuration; but I figured what the hell, I'm already doing 80% of that job anyway with very little support coming from my old host. So, when my old server came up for renewal at the end of July, I went month-to-month on my lease with them and bought the new server to take its place. I struggled through server setup and the migration of all my existing sites from the old server in August and September. At the end of September with just 3 sites left to move I grabbed the last 3 sites, made my final backups, and pulled the plug on the old server on the weekend before it would have renewed for another month... jumping out the window (from what turned out to be the 12th floor) with my final backups under my arm. :-) During October, I struggled to get the server set up to support mailman for multiple accounts. That entailed installing and testing it for the current client and setting up the server to support virtual domain hosting under Apache2, postfix and mailman so that we can eventually support mailman for multiple domains on this server. Until you mentioned suEXEC in your message yesterday, I'd nearly forgotten that part of our June-July nightmare. When I checked this morning, I found that when Apache2 was installed on this server it's standard installation process did include suEXEC. However, under Debian's Apache2 setup, it's easy to disable suEXEC and restart Apache. As far as I know, nothing else on the server was relying on the presence of suEXEC and it certainly wasn't my intent to install that Apache feature to begin with. So, suEXEC has now been disabled. Now can we talk about the proper ownership of all the mailman files both IN /usr/local/mailman directory structure and in the UserAccount/mailman directory as well? Or should I just put take a large dose of cyanide and go take a long nap instead? Thanks! -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: Could this be a group/owner-ship issue? Yes. It took me a while, but I finally connected you with our exchanges from last June/July :) It hadn't occurred to me to look for mailman's error log. Plus I had no idea where it was. I've seen it mentioned but I'd seen nothing in the docs that said where to find it. But with a bit of looking, I found it in /usr/local/mailman/logs/error The error log that was saved when we made our final September 28 backup on the old server was last updated 9/25. The more I look the more this looks like an ownership issue to me. It may be I screwed up somewhere back in July. In our current mailman directory structure a smattering of files throughout the mailman directory tree seem to be owned by root / mailman now; whereas in the old backup everything seems to have been owned by mailman / mailman or www-data (Debian's default Apache user) / mailman. On 9/28, the error log was owned by mailman / mailman. Indeed everything except mischief, subscribed and vet were owned by mailman / mailman back then. Those three files were different and were owned by www-data / mailman. Today in our running copy of mailman, all logs are owned by mailman/mailman except error which is owned by root / mailman and mischief, vet and subscribed which are owned by www-data / mailman. There were undoubtedly problems on the old server because of SUExec issues which I told you at the time was incompatible with Mailman's security model since Mailman's CGI wrappers can't be SETGID under SUExec and that's the whole point of the wrappers in the first place. So ownership and permissions within Mailman have to be such that the SUExec user can read and write. But the qrunner processes also have to be able to read and write and they will run as the mailman user:group. Normally the owner doesn't matter because everything runs as group mailman, but that may not be the case here. The reason I think this is an ownership issue is because when I look at the July - September error log I see lots of errors like this: Jul 09 07:29:22 2008
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
I'm sorry to turn up in your support forum again, Mark. I've fought hard here to try to avoid that. The truth is it was our struggle with trying to configure my old server for mailman back in June and July that proved to be the straw that broke the camel's back with my old dedicated server hosting service. In early July I asked them about getting an updated server and software but the price they quoted was so darn high I decided to bail out on them and ended up choosing a hosting company that provided much more server for the $ plus the latest version of Debian Etch (rather than the 5 year old version of RedHat I was running) for the same price I'd been paying to my old hosting service. The BIG difference was I had to take full admin responsibility for my server setup and configuration; but I figured what the hell, I'm already doing 80% of that job anyway with very little support coming from my old host. So, when my old server came up for renewal at the end of July, I went month-to-month on my lease with them and bought the new server to take its place. I struggled through server setup and the migration of all my existing sites from the old server in August and September. At the end of September with just 3 sites left to move I grabbed the last 3 sites, made my final backups, and pulled the plug on the old server on the weekend before it would have renewed for another month... jumping out the window (from what turned out to be the 12th floor) with my final backups under my arm. :-) During October, I struggled to get the server set up to support mailman for multiple accounts. That entailed installing and testing it for the current client and setting up the server to support virtual domain hosting under Apache2, postfix and mailman so that we can eventually support mailman for multiple domains on this server. Until you mentioned suEXEC in your message yesterday, I'd nearly forgotten that part of our June-July nightmare. When I checked this morning, I found that when Apache2 was installed on this server it's standard installation process did include suEXEC. However, under Debian's Apache2 setup, it's easy to disable suEXEC and restart Apache. As far as I know, nothing else on the server was relying on the presence of suEXEC and it certainly wasn't my intent to install that Apache feature to begin with. So, suEXEC has now been disabled. Now can we talk about the proper ownership of all the mailman files both IN /usr/local/mailman directory structure and in the UserAccount/mailman directory as well? Shouldn't all (or most of) these files be owned by mailman / mailman? Is that also true in the /archives/private/mylist directory? What about over in the /home/mylist/www directory? Who should own the mailman directory there? I have run bin/check_perms several times but it doesn't complain about any problems. Thanks! Or should I just put take a large dose of cyanide and go take a long nap instead? Thanks! -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:21 PM TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: Could this be a group/owner-ship issue? Yes. It took me a while, but I finally connected you with our exchanges from last June/July :) snip --- There were undoubtedly problems on the old server because of SUExec issues which I told you at the time was incompatible with Mailman's security model since Mailman's CGI wrappers can't be SETGID under SUExec and that's the whole point of the wrappers in the first place. So ownership and permissions within Mailman have to be such that the SUExec user can read and write. But the qrunner processes also have to be able to read and write and they will run as the mailman user:group. Normally the owner doesn't matter because everything runs as group mailman, but that may not be the case here. snip and when I check the files in that directory, they're owned by root as a member of the group mailman. That should be OK because ArchRunner should be running as group mailman and the files should be group writable. snip when I look at the qfiles/shunt directory in the 9/28 backup, the oldest file there seems to be from 09-20-2008. So it looks to me like it was only keeping those shunt files 5 or 6 days before discarding them. If you are running Mailman 2.1.11, there is a cron that runs daily and by default it discards anything in qfiles/bad and qfiles/shunt older than 7 days. From Defaults.py # The length of time after which a qfiles/bad or qfiles/shunt file is # considered to be stale. Set to zero to disable culling of qfiles/bad and # qfiles/shunt entries. BAD_SHUNT_STALE_AFTER = days(7) # The pathname of a directory (searchable and writable by the Mailman cron # user) to which the culled qfiles/bad and qfiles/shunt entries will be # moved. Set to None to simply delete the culled entries. BAD_SHUNT_ARCHIVE_DIRECTORY = None snip So you still have permissions issues. You could start with bin/check_perms which
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
It looks to me like check_perms has a hole in it, Mark. If you take a close look at the error I've been getting repeatedly since early July (see below), you'll see it consistently occurs on the index.html table in the /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mylist directory. Here are the permissions on that file: 12 -rw-r--r-- 1 mailman mailman 11452 Oct 20 07:01 index.html Please note that the permissions on that file are 644 and not 664. I just ran check_perms on this account. It reported No Problems Found. Yet when Archrunner runs and tries to open that file to replace it, it reports a permissions error for that file. In short, check_perms reports those 644 permissions are just fine while you're telling me they should be 664 and ARCHrunner complains they're NOT fine. This suggests to me check_perms isn't doing its job very well. Am I wrong about this? Here's the error ARCHrunner has been reporting repeatedly since early July... Oct 28 10:09:30 2008 (2589) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mylist/index.html' Oct 28 10:09:30 2008 (2589) Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py, line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py, line 217, in ArchiveMa il h.close() File /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py, line 324, in close self.write_TOC() File /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py, line 1097, in write_T OC toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w') IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mylist/index.html' What am I missing here? -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: Now can we talk about the proper ownership of all the mailman files both IN /usr/local/mailman directory structure and in the UserAccount/mailman directory as well? Shouldn't all (or most of) these files be owned by mailman / mailman? Is that also true in the /archives/private/mylist directory? What about over in the /home/mylist/www directory? Who should own the mailman directory there? I have run bin/check_perms several times but it doesn't complain about any problems. check_perms should complain about ownership and permission problems. Assuming mailman's home directory is NOT /usr/local/mailman and assuming that prefix, and var_prefix are /usr/local/mailman, mailman's home directory is irrelevant. In general everything from /usr/local/mailman on down should be group mailman (owner doesn't matter) and directories need to be g+rws and files g+rw. See the post at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-October/063748.html. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
You said: Assuming mailman's home directory is NOT /usr/local/mailman and assuming that prefix, and var_prefix are /usr/local/mailman, mailman's home directory is irrelevant. But mailman's home directory (where all its programs, scripts, archives and discussion lists are stored) IS /usr/local/mailman and according to my Mailman/Defaults.py, both var_prefix and prefix are also /user/local/mailman PREFIX = '/usr/local/mailman' VAR_PREFIX = '/usr/local/mailman' How does that change things? -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: Now can we talk about the proper ownership of all the mailman files both IN /usr/local/mailman directory structure and in the UserAccount/mailman directory as well? Shouldn't all (or most of) these files be owned by mailman / mailman? Is that also true in the /archives/private/mylist directory? What about over in the /home/mylist/www directory? Who should own the mailman directory there? I have run bin/check_perms several times but it doesn't complain about any problems. check_perms should complain about ownership and permission problems. Assuming mailman's home directory is NOT /usr/local/mailman and assuming that prefix, and var_prefix are /usr/local/mailman, mailman's home directory is irrelevant. In general everything from /usr/local/mailman on down should be group mailman (owner doesn't matter) and directories need to be g+rws and files g+rw. See the post at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-October/063748.html. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
I've probably just misunderstood something here. When you helped me with my setup in July, you had me create a mailman directory in the user's web space and we used that directory somehow. I've forgotten the exact reason we did that now but I vaguely recall it had something to do with working around my old Redhat 7.2 and Apache 1.2 server's suEXEC setup to gain access to the mailman programs. The user's web account still has that mailman directory present in it. It hadn't occurred to me yet that it might not need to be there at all now. To help jog your memory, its setup looks like this: myserver:/home/mylist/www# ls -als mailman total 12 4 drwxr-xr-x 3 mylist mylist 4096 Oct 20 07:22 . 4 drwxr-xr-x 12 mylist mylist 4096 Oct 29 17:46 .. 4 drwxrwsr-x 2598 mylist 4096 Oct 28 06:53 mail myserver:/home/mylist/www# ls -als mailman/mail total 48 4 drwxrwsr-x 2598 mylist 4096 Oct 28 06:53 . 4 drwxr-xr-x 3 mylist mylist 4096 Oct 20 07:22 .. 40 -rwxr-xr-x 1 598 mylist 39801 Jun 29 18:41 mailman So, when I asked about ownership and permissions and mentioned the UserAccount/mailman directory, that's the directory I was referring to. Sorry if I confused you. :-( Should I just remove that spare mailman directory from the user's space now? -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: Assuming mailman's home directory is NOT /usr/local/mailman and assuming that prefix, and var_prefix are /usr/local/mailman, mailman's home directory is irrelevant. But mailman's home directory (where all its programs, scripts, archives and discussion lists are stored) IS /usr/local/mailman and according to my Mailman/Defaults.py, both var_prefix and prefix are also /user/local/mailman PREFIX = '/usr/local/mailman' VAR_PREFIX = '/usr/local/mailman' How does that change things? When you said: Now can we talk about the proper ownership of all the mailman files both IN /usr/local/mailman directory structure and in the UserAccount/mailman directory as well? it seemed to me you were talking about two separate directories, /usr/local/mailman and UserAccount/mailman. Whether or not these are separate directories or the same directory, the ownership and permissions on /usr/local/mailman are the only ones that matter. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
LOL!! Bear in mind my guru friend that what's apparent to someone with your years of experience and wisdom isn't the least bit obvious to a mailman newcomers like me. Naïve as it may be, we tend to assume that when the program says it checked permissions and found no problems we're not likely to encounter permission issues with mailman's own automated processes later. I know that's a silly assumption to make, but we'll tend to make it anyway. ;-) That's why I deliberately avoided seeking your help while I struggled and did extensive testing and research for DAYS trying to figure out exactly how to configure Apache, Postfix and Mailman with virtual alias domains so that I might at least have a prayer someday of being able to support more than one mailman discussion list on my server. As a result of that struggle, I may not know everything there IS to know, but at least understand the basic concepts now. I'm engaged in a similar struggle now in trying to understand mailman ownership and permissions. I'm not sure I understand how ownership and permissions play out in mailman. So, I'm forced to proceed with absolute faith that YOU know what you're doing, sir. For my part, I feel like a blind man who is flying a wide-body jet filled with screaming passengers into Atlanta at rush hour for the first time. And YOU and the mailman tools are my ONLY guides. So, since the check_perms tool doesn't work flawlessly, I'm relying on you to tell me how to do it right, oh Guru! B-) Thanks for being so patient and understanding. -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: It looks to me like check_perms has a hole in it, Mark. If you take a close look at the error I've been getting repeatedly since early July (see below), you'll see it consistently occurs on the index.html table in the /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/mylist directory. Here are the permissions on that file: 12 -rw-r--r-- 1 mailman mailman 11452 Oct 20 07:01 index.html Please note that the permissions on that file are 644 and not 664. I just ran check_perms on this account. It reported No Problems Found. Yet when Archrunner runs and tries to open that file to replace it, it reports a permissions error for that file. In short, check_perms reports those 644 permissions are just fine while you're telling me they should be 664 and ARCHrunner complains they're NOT fine. This suggests to me check_perms isn't doing its job very well. This appears to be a problem with check_perms. You are correct that it isn't doing its job very well. There are a lot of files it doesn't check, and at least some of those should be checked. I'll look into fixing that. Thanks for pointing it out. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
First, I was wrong here. I was so horrified at the thought of having lost all those old messages that I got the date wrong. It's actually worse than I remembered. The last archive update appears to have happened in early July... not early August. My last backup from the old server was September 28. It took 3 weeks for me to get mailman working again on the new host in multi-domain (virtual host) mode. So there are 3 months worth of archive updates that appear to be lost. I looked close at our 9/28 tar-ball backup from the old server and there seems to be nothing in the qfiles/archive directory at all. Indeed, there's nothing in qfiles/bad, bounces, command, in, news, out, retry or virgin either. Shunt has a few pck files but they all begin on 10/21 which is when mailman started running again on the new server. For the record, I see no evidence the cron for archive updates is running now on the new server either. In fact from your comments, I'd say the pck files in qfiles/shunt strongly suggest that it's NOT running or at least not running correctly. Here's what I see when I look at the current mailman archive/private/listname.mbox directory 4 drwxrwsr-x 2 ourlistmailman4096 2008-10-28 06:34 . 4 drwxrws--- 8 nobody mailman4096 2008-07-10 06:53 .. 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 41 2008-10-28 06:34 arc - /www/ourlist/newtest/mailman archives/ 5624 -rw-r--r-- 1 root mailman 5743206 2008-07-07 06:22 ourlist.mbox Note the date on the ourlist.mbox file. That's the last time the archive process ran successfully. Something is obviously wrong here; but I'm not sure exactly what. Can you advise me, Mark? Thanks. -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 5:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archiveprocess running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: I seem to be missing two full months worth of archives. From what I can tell looking at my backups, it appears that the last time the archive process actually ran on our old server was in early August. Then for some reason it stopped funning and thee have been no archive updates since then. I suspect those lost messages aren't really lost at all but are merely caught in some sort of internal blockage in mailman. What I'm trying to figure out here is how to clear the clogged drain pipe and get the archive working again. There are a few possibilities: 1) ArchiveRunner died on the old server in early August. In this case, the messages would be on the old server in the qfiles/arch/ directory. If that is the case, you could just move the contents of that directory to the corresponding directory on the new server and that should do it. 2) Some error was shunting the archived messages in which case they may be in qfiles/shunt/ and they may or may not be in the individual archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox files. If the messages are in qfiles/shunt/, you could just move them and rin bin/unshunt, but you need to be careful as not all the files in qfiles/shunt/ may be messages you want. You can look at these entries with bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb. If the messages are in the listname.mbox files, the easiest thing is probably to rebuild the archives with bin/arch --wipe. When I first installed the backup from the old server to the new one and then checked the list's configuration parameters, I saw some parameters on the Archiving options page that provided for rebuilding the archive. But now those options seem to have disappeared now too. I don't know what you say, but there's nothing in the web Archiving Options page about rebuilding archives. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
Follow-up to last message. Wasn't sure exactly how to examine the contents of the ourlist.mbox file in /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/ourlist.mbox SO, I opened it with emacs just to see what it contained. The last message in that file is one I posted on July 7th. The prospects of recovering all those missing messages are looking dimmer and dimmer... Sigh! :-( -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 5:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archiveprocess running? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: I seem to be missing two full months worth of archives. From what I can tell looking at my backups, it appears that the last time the archive process actually ran on our old server was in early August. Then for some reason it stopped funning and thee have been no archive updates since then. I suspect those lost messages aren't really lost at all but are merely caught in some sort of internal blockage in mailman. What I'm trying to figure out here is how to clear the clogged drain pipe and get the archive working again. There are a few possibilities: 1) ArchiveRunner died on the old server in early August. In this case, the messages would be on the old server in the qfiles/arch/ directory. If that is the case, you could just move the contents of that directory to the corresponding directory on the new server and that should do it. 2) Some error was shunting the archived messages in which case they may be in qfiles/shunt/ and they may or may not be in the individual archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox files. If the messages are in qfiles/shunt/, you could just move them and rin bin/unshunt, but you need to be careful as not all the files in qfiles/shunt/ may be messages you want. You can look at these entries with bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb. If the messages are in the listname.mbox files, the easiest thing is probably to rebuild the archives with bin/arch --wipe. When I first installed the backup from the old server to the new one and then checked the list's configuration parameters, I saw some parameters on the Archiving options page that provided for rebuilding the archive. But now those options seem to have disappeared now too. I don't know what you say, but there's nothing in the web Archiving Options page about rebuilding archives. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] How did I break my mailman?
I took an existing mailman web account that was working just fine and moved it from our test directory to our production directory. Mailman remains unchanged. Relative paths are all the same as they were before. I checked that. Subscriptions still work (as long as confirm is turned off in the privacy options) and all the admin functions seem to work as well. Yet, suddenly mailman seems unable to send out emails to any of its subscribers. It can't even send out new subscriber confirmation emails or your message was held for approval emails. In fact when I tried to turn enrollment confirmation on, pretty much everything stopped working but when I turned it back off again then users could once again sign up; but none of the messages mailman should be sending out to list members are actually getting mailed. All this stuff worked FINE yesterday before the move; so somehow this is clearly related to the move; but I'm not exactly sure what could be wrong. Any troubleshooting suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to answer these questions: 1. Why don't confirmations work? 2. 2. Why can't mailman send emails to list members? Thanks! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] How did I break my mailman?
Thanks Mark... obviously one of those things was exactly the enema mailman needed because as soon as I finished them (and restarted our server) I found a whole boatload of emails in each of my test subscriber inboxes. I guess that means all the other list members probably got them too. Although I've absolutely nothing that should have changed permissions in DAYS now (and when I last checked permissions, it was clean, check_perms still did find a single permissions error on aliases.db Could THAT have somehow been the cause of mailman's sudden bout of email constipation? If so, do you any idea what might have caused the permission change when I'd done nothing to those files? I'm going back to do some further testing now, but it looks like we managed to break the log jam. Thanks again. -Original Message- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How did I break my mailman? TGPlatt, WebMaster wrote: All this stuff worked FINE yesterday before the move; so somehow this is clearly related to the move; but I'm not exactly sure what could be wrong. Any troubleshooting suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to answer these questions: See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/A4E9 for a troubleshooting check list. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] What happened to my archive? Why isn't the archive process running?
Okay, so now that I've got finally mailman moved and running on the new server and working with postfix and apache2 and sending and receiving emails and all that basic stuff, I still have one question I haven't been able to answer. I seem to be missing two full months worth of archives. From what I can tell looking at my backups, it appears that the last time the archive process actually ran on our old server was in early August. Then for some reason it stopped funning and thee have been no archive updates since then. I suspect those lost messages aren't really lost at all but are merely caught in some sort of internal blockage in mailman. What I'm trying to figure out here is how to clear the clogged drain pipe and get the archive working again. When I first installed the backup from the old server to the new one and then checked the list's configuration parameters, I saw some parameters on the Archiving options page that provided for rebuilding the archive. But now those options seem to have disappeared now too. Can Mark or someone else tell me how I go about figuring out where my missing messages have gone and get the archive working again as it should be? Thanks. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Somewhere I think I've missed a step. Did I finish the Install wrong?
I'm a new mailman server administrator. I'm trying to install the app on my server for a new client who has been running it for 2 years on another host. I'm using Python 2.4.5 (a fresh install downloaded from the Python.org site and mailman 2.1.11 downloaded from SourceForge via the www.lists.org site (i.e. these are pure vanilla - straight from the box - installs) It's installed on my dedicated RedHat Linux server running RH v7.1 Mailman is installed in /usr/local/mailman/ ./Configure, make and make install all ran okay from WITHIN /usr/local/mailman/src once I finally figured out I could not put both the source and the runtime into /usr./local/mailman and moved the source to the src subdirectory. HOWEVER, please note that I have ONLY run make install in /usr/local/mailman/src. I have NOT installed mailman in any user domain's home directory (or subdirectory) yet. I DID make my target user domain (lets call it riverrats) a member of the mailman group; but that's as far as I've gone at the moment. Mailman isn't even in the search path for the riverrats domain. I have a hunch this was a mistake or that there's SOMETHING else I still must do INSIDE the riverrats domain in order to enable users to access mailman from there. As it stands now, the ONLY way to run the mailman apps on the server would be for riverrats users to log into /usr/local/mailman and run them from there. Yipes! :-( I believe I made all the required configuration changes to set up the apache server properly and I've restarted apache. I also made the required alias changes and modified the mm_cfg.py file in mailman to reflect the domain's So, theoretically I SHOULD be ready to run. Except I have a hunch I've managed to overlook or skip over some key step somewhere. Am I right? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
