Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
On 12/11/2014 03:40 AM, Peter Shute wrote: > > If all non text attachments get archived with this setting, do the html > versions of messages get archived too? Do you also find the little graphics > some people use in their signatures getting archived? It all depends on your Content filtering. But whether or not you scrub_nondigest, any of these things that remain after Content filtering will ultimately be stored aside anyway (at least if the list is digestable or has pipermail archives), either when the message is scrubbed per scrub_nondigest or, if scrub_nondigest is No, when the message is scrubbed for the plain digest and/or the archive. How text/html parts that remain after Content filtering are handled depends on the setting of ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER, but by default, they are html-escaped and stored aside. Read the documentation in Defaults.py for more detail. Note also that for many lists everything that is stored aside is actually stored aside twice, once during digest preparation and once during archiving. scrub_nondigest = Yes avoids this duplication, but has what for some is a downside by scrubbing individual messages and messages in MIME format digests which really messes up HTML, if HTML is wanted on the list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
> On 11 Dec 2014, at 6:55 am, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> On 12/10/2014 03:56 AM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: >> >> They wanted to know if there was a "files" area where they could upload >> things like Word documents, etc. I told them there wasn't. > > > But there is in a way at least. If you allow these as attachments in > Content filtering or don't filter content at all, and set Non-digest > options -> scrub_nondigest to Yes, then the non text/plain attachments > will be stored aside in the archive and replaced by links in the > delivered message. If all non text attachments get archived with this setting, do the html versions of messages get archived too? Do you also find the little graphics some people use in their signatures getting archived? Peter Shute -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
Agreed about Yahoo. I get lots of spam from friends who have had their Yahoo mail hacked. I finally convinced my wife to stop using Yahoo. Quoting "Stephen J. Turnbull" : Keith Bierman writes: > Obviously, since we're all here we've chosen mailman and related > tools. But for a relatively small group of novices wouldn't the old > egroups.com (taken over by yahoo ages ago, but lives on) Friends don't let friends use Yahoo! services. They demonstrably have security issues, and they consider their security problems to be a justification for poor netizenship. I've come to have a grudging respect for their postmaster staff (which I cannot say for AOL)[1], but I consider their management to be untrustworthy on their best days. I don't know about Google and Hotmail services. It's possible they're subject to the same considerations as Yahoo! and AOL, but have been lucky so far. Your guess is as good as mine, or better, maybe. :-) > or google groups be an appropriate solution? They've got shared > file areas, moderation, web and email interfaces, etc. And lock-in. If you ever decide you want the amenities of a modern MLM like Mailman, getting your data back out of any of these services is not easy (compared to getting it out of Mailman, anyway -- at the very least, although you'll make Mark sad if you say you're migrating away from Mailman, it won't delay his helpful answer more than a few milliseconds). Agreed, those services are something to consider. I've never been happy with them as a user, though. Footnotes: [1] By which I mean the folks from these organizations I meet on the IETF mailing lists. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rex%40rexgoode.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
Mark, That sounds great! Easy and no grueling programming in unfamiliar territory. Rex Quoting Mark Sapiro : On 12/10/2014 03:56 AM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: They wanted to know if there was a "files" area where they could upload things like Word documents, etc. I told them there wasn't. But there is in a way at least. If you allow these as attachments in Content filtering or don't filter content at all, and set Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest to Yes, then the non text/plain attachments will be stored aside in the archive and replaced by links in the delivered message. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rex%40rexgoode.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
Keith Bierman writes: > Obviously, since we're all here we've chosen mailman and related > tools. But for a relatively small group of novices wouldn't the old > egroups.com (taken over by yahoo ages ago, but lives on) Friends don't let friends use Yahoo! services. They demonstrably have security issues, and they consider their security problems to be a justification for poor netizenship. I've come to have a grudging respect for their postmaster staff (which I cannot say for AOL)[1], but I consider their management to be untrustworthy on their best days. I don't know about Google and Hotmail services. It's possible they're subject to the same considerations as Yahoo! and AOL, but have been lucky so far. Your guess is as good as mine, or better, maybe. :-) > or google groups be an appropriate solution? They've got shared > file areas, moderation, web and email interfaces, etc. And lock-in. If you ever decide you want the amenities of a modern MLM like Mailman, getting your data back out of any of these services is not easy (compared to getting it out of Mailman, anyway -- at the very least, although you'll make Mark sad if you say you're migrating away from Mailman, it won't delay his helpful answer more than a few milliseconds). Agreed, those services are something to consider. I've never been happy with them as a user, though. Footnotes: [1] By which I mean the folks from these organizations I meet on the IETF mailing lists. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
On 12/10/2014 03:56 AM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: > > They wanted to know if there was a "files" area where they could upload > things like Word documents, etc. I told them there wasn't. But there is in a way at least. If you allow these as attachments in Content filtering or don't filter content at all, and set Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest to Yes, then the non text/plain attachments will be stored aside in the archive and replaced by links in the delivered message. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
Obviously, since we're all here we've chosen mailman and related tools. But for a relatively small group of novices wouldn't the old egroups.com (taken over by yahoo ages ago, but lives on) or google groups be an appropriate solution? They've got shared file areas, moderation, web and email interfaces, etc. Keith Bierman khb...@gmail.com kbiermank AIM 303 997 2749 On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Tracey McCartney wrote: > Rex: > > Instead of rolling your own, you might consider throwing up a Drupal site. > Drupal is free, and it has a module called Mailman Manager that integrates > Mailman with Drupal. The site can be your files repository. As a bonus, > your list members can manage their subscriptions through the Drupal site as > long as their Drupal account has the same email address as their mailing > list subscription. As a further bonus, you can assign your list members a > role and then lock down the permissions, allowing them and only them to > upload and download files. > > I am toying with implementing this on a longtime mailing list I run, but I > haven't figured out how to get the 350 list members to go on the companion > site and create Drupal logins. For a fairly new list, you might have an > easier time. > > > Tracey > > On Wednesday, December 10, 2014, wrote: > > > Hmmm. A python pickle. Dill or sweet? Sounds interesting. I can probably > > read python if I try. Might actually like it > > > > Sent from my android device. > > -- > > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > Searchable Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tracey%40fairhousing.com > > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/khbkhb%40gmail.com > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
Rex: Instead of rolling your own, you might consider throwing up a Drupal site. Drupal is free, and it has a module called Mailman Manager that integrates Mailman with Drupal. The site can be your files repository. As a bonus, your list members can manage their subscriptions through the Drupal site as long as their Drupal account has the same email address as their mailing list subscription. As a further bonus, you can assign your list members a role and then lock down the permissions, allowing them and only them to upload and download files. I am toying with implementing this on a longtime mailing list I run, but I haven't figured out how to get the 350 list members to go on the companion site and create Drupal logins. For a fairly new list, you might have an easier time. Tracey On Wednesday, December 10, 2014, wrote: > Hmmm. A python pickle. Dill or sweet? Sounds interesting. I can probably > read python if I try. Might actually like it > > Sent from my android device. > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tracey%40fairhousing.com > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
Hmmm. A python pickle. Dill or sweet? Sounds interesting. I can probably read python if I try. Might actually like it Sent from my android device. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
On 12/10/2014 3:56 AM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: They wanted to know if there was a "files" area where they could upload things like Word documents, etc. [...] Is there a way for me to detect that they have logged in and give them access to be able to up- and download files to an area I provide? If you limit this to http(s), you could use the mailman user login cookies, but would have to tease the info out of the mailman source code for names/formats/etc (I haven't looked at this). Also, if you want them to be able to log in to your web page directly and not mailman's, you'll have to read the user info from the list's python pickle to authenticate them. This, of course, requires some python work :). z! who can read, but not really write, python -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages - Files
Well, everyone, my disadvantages/advantages list was successful in getting people to join my mailman list. There were a few holdouts, but the main players decided that the list was a good idea and signed up. The rest will probably follow when their discussion dries up and everything that's happening is on the list. One question came up and I knew the answer, but it brings up a question for me. They wanted to know if there was a "files" area where they could upload things like Word documents, etc. I told them there wasn't. I could provide one, but I would have to come up with a login mechanism to keep the files only available to the list subscribers. I know these people won't get on board with a whole new username/password to remember on top of the one they need for mailman. Is there a way for me to detect that they have logged in and give them access to be able to up- and download files to an area I provide? Actually, I'd like to keep uploads just to those I set as list moderators. I don't know python, but I know enough a dozen languages, so I don't think it will be a problem if I have to learn it. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On Mon, 2014-12-08 at 10:25 -0800, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > (Please don't ask me questions about this, the answer would probably be a > tarball of the logs. I'm sorry I even brought it up.) LOL!! No regrets, Carl :) No, no! We DON'T need a tarball of logs! I'll drop the subject. > -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On 12/8/2014 10:01 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: On Mon, 2014-12-08 at 09:36 -0800, Carl Zwanzig wrote: you'd think so, but the sender is on well.com; all of the yahoo/hotmail/etc addresses bounced and all the others were delivered. Circumstances being what they are, it's not worth my time to figure this out, only need it for a couple more weeks and a few more messages. Well, this is a matter of concern beyond your list, I'm not sure it really is. The set of facts is quite small and untrustworthy. As I said, I'm not willing to do any more research on the matter at this time. well.com doesn't advertise a DMARC policy, so why would this be? Are we looking at something new here? A lot of us run announcement lists, or do so for our customers. Can we expect rejections from these ESPs too? Is well.com blacklisted in some other way? Or do yahoo/hotmail/etc filter in some other way that might bite even a legit CC or BCC list? It's entirely possible that the couple of people reporting the problem are confused, maybe one of them -was- sending from a yahoo account and not from the well one. I know that I've got entries in the mailman bounces log and rejections in postfix's log, but haven't matched original senders to rejections. This group of people will probably have 4 or 5 more messages over the next couple of weeks, then the purpose of the list goes away. (Please don't ask me questions about this, the answer would probably be a tarball of the logs. I'm sorry I even brought it up.) z! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On 12/08/2014 10:01 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > On Mon, 2014-12-08 at 09:36 -0800, Carl Zwanzig wrote: >> >> you'd think so, but the sender is on well.com; all of the yahoo/hotmail/etc >> addresses bounced and all the others were delivered. Circumstances being >> what they are, it's not worth my time to figure this out, only need it for a >> couple more weeks and a few more messages. > > Well, this is a matter of concern beyond your list, Carl, so I'm > replying to the Mailman-users list in case someone else has knows > something about this. > > well.com doesn't advertise a DMARC policy, so why would this be? Are we > looking at something new here? We are curious. If these messages were rejected by the recipient MTAs, what reasons were logged by the outgoing MTA? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On Mon, 2014-12-08 at 09:36 -0800, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > > For an announcement list, I would think this would be a problem only if > > he was posting _from_ an address that advertises a DMARC policy. > > you'd think so, but the sender is on well.com; all of the yahoo/hotmail/etc > addresses bounced and all the others were delivered. Circumstances being > what they are, it's not worth my time to figure this out, only need it for a > couple more weeks and a few more messages. Well, this is a matter of concern beyond your list, Carl, so I'm replying to the Mailman-users list in case someone else has knows something about this. well.com doesn't advertise a DMARC policy, so why would this be? Are we looking at something new here? A lot of us run announcement lists, or do so for our customers. Can we expect rejections from these ESPs too? Is well.com blacklisted in some other way? Or do yahoo/hotmail/etc filter in some other way that might bite even a legit CC or BCC list? Is there no safe harbor in this storm of misbegotten paranoia -- Lindsay Haisley | "The only unchanging certainty FMP Computer Services |is the certainty of change" 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com| - Ancient wisdom, all cultures -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On Mon, 2014-12-08 at 08:49 -0800, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > FWIW, a friend had to fall back to BCCs for a specific announcement list > because over half the 80 list members are on aol/comcrap/yahoo/hotmail > (DMARC) and the mailman installation isn't fully up to date. For an announcement list, I would think this would be a problem only if he was posting _from_ an address that advertises a DMARC policy. Gmail accounts are free . -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
FWIW, a friend had to fall back to BCCs for a specific announcement list because over half the 80 list members are on aol/comcrap/yahoo/hotmail (DMARC) and the mailman installation isn't fully up to date. For these specific circumstances, it works, but neither of us would try it for more than about 100 members nor for a discussion list. z! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On Sun, 2014-12-07 at 13:52 -0800, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: > I suppose I should have added what I wanted you to look at. I don't > think mailman reads minds, yet. Running a discussion list using email CCs is, IMHO, unwieldy to the point of being unusable. A point which I didn't see in your lists is the fact that in some mail clients, addresses that stop working can derail the mailout so that every subsequent address in the list doesn't get a post. I just set up a Mailman announcement list for some folks who were having this problem, trying to run their list from BCCs stored in the list owner's mail client, and the problems of trying to run a discussion list this way, with a CC list, would be an order of magnitude greater. I'd never try it with a list of more than a dozen people, at the most, but then I have ready access to my own mail server and Mailman installation :) Mail clients vary substantially in how they handle DSNs and NDRs, and without centralized control over this you'd have chaos! Mail clients vary widely in their quality, behavior and adherence to published standards. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
I suppose I should have added what I wanted you to look at. I don't think mailman reads minds, yet. Disadvantages for Using Cc to Manage a Mailing List 1) The list of recipients can be added to without the recipient's permission. 2) Any recipient can delete an address from the list. 3) When the Cc list gets too long, Internet Service Providers will mark it as spam and all senders may be put in a blacklist. 4) If you want to be removed, everyone on the list has to take your address out of the Cc line. 5) If you want out, everyone replying to any message when you were in will put you back in. 6) You can't use your email program's filtering capabilities to keep your inbox clean. 7) If your computer gets hacked, hackers can mine harvest our addresses from your contact list. Advanatages of a Software-Managed List 1) There is an archive of all past postings that can be searched by subscribers only. 2) The software provides spam filtering, protecting everyone's email addresses from spammers. 3) The software prevents us from getting each others' vacation messages. 4) The software prevents us from getting error messages when each others' mailbox is full or bounces. 5) Easier filtering in your email program, i.e., you can create a folder that only has the list's messages. 6) Each user can manage his own subscription, including turning delivery off when you go on vacation or want some peace and quiet from the discussion (and the archive will still be there when you want to turn it on again). 7) Numerous customizable options, such as: a standard footer (for confidentiality messages, etc) moderating tools, anonymizing addresses 8) Hides the email addresses of all members. 9) If you don't like getting every piece of email sent by subscribers, you can set yourself for digest mode, where you would only get one message per day that has every message for that day inside it. Quoting r...@rexgoode.com: Hey, everyone. Thanks for your feedback on my request for advantages/disadvantages of a mailing list over a Cc list. I came up with the following, based on your feedback, and reworded in language I think my colleagues can understand. Would you look it over and tell me if I've misrepresented anything or have left anything out? Rex -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rex%40rexgoode.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
Hey, everyone. Thanks for your feedback on my request for advantages/disadvantages of a mailing list over a Cc list. I came up with the following, based on your feedback, and reworded in language I think my colleagues can understand. Would you look it over and tell me if I've misrepresented anything or have left anything out? Rex -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
Hi, We use mailman for a very diverse set of people and needs, some few hundred mailing lists. I would suggest the "terror" they feel is on something new to get over with, good luck! regards Steven From: Mailman-Users on behalf of r...@rexgoode.com Sent: Wednesday, 3 December 2014 1:05 p.m. To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Advantages I have been a long-time user of mailman and have been on many mailing lists. I am also part of a professional association of social workers that operate in my area. They have been using a list of addresses in a Cc field to manage their mailing list. I can't imagine anything more fraught with problems than that, but I can't convince these people to let me host a mailman mailing list for them. I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a good list somewhere. I'm a strange combination of software engineer and social worker, so I understand both worlds. My social worker colleagues tend to think of something like a mailing list as complicating things rather than simplifying them. I'm not necessarily asking for a discussion here, but I'd like some feedback on this. Viva Mailman! Rex Goode -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On Thu, 2014-12-04 at 00:55 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > But "don't fix what ain't broke" is a great rule. *We* (technies) > should apply it more often. ;-) It is often said, with some truth, that the only way to get a computer program finished is to kill the programmer. > -- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
Peter Shute writes: > I would have thought the biggest problem with a Cc list is keeping > the list up to date. It is. But "don't fix what ain't broke" is a great rule. *We* (technies) should apply it more often. ;-) In this case, some education is indeed in order IMHO. So the OP had it exactly right. Find "Dave Letterman's Top Ten Reasons to Switch to Mailman", and we are golden. :-) Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On 12/03/14 03:09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: r...@rexgoode.com writes: > I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone > has seen a good list somewhere. There may be one on the wiki somewhere. Besides the points Barry made, I would add: 1. Easier personal filtering. Geeks can use the List-* headers, non-geeks the Subject tags. 2. Common spam filtering (including vacation messages :-). 3. Common attachment filtering and storage. 4. Vacation functionality (for those who are willing to log in and set no-mail). 5. Dupe filtering (for those who are willing to log in and set not-me-too). 6. Advanced distribution and archive functionality (coming in Mailman 3). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/gaa%40ulticom.com I would add that mailing lists can hide all the members email addresses. If someone is using Outlook and has it capturing email addresses of senders and other recipients in a "Suggested Contacts" address book and then they get hit by some malware that harvests these addresses, they will get all the individual list members and they can start sending Spam to these people. If a mailing list is used, only senders and the list address appear. You can even hide the sender behind the list keeping everyone anonymous. The list can better deal with any Spam than what most individuals can. -- Gary Algier, WB2FWZg...@ulticom.com +1 856 787 2758 Ulticom Inc., 1020 Briggs Rd, Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054 Fax:+1 856 866 2033 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On Wed, 3 Dec 2014, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: r...@rexgoode.com writes: > I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone > has seen a good list somewhere. I have a list here: https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fspirituellkultur.org%2Fbcc-vs-mailman.html&edit-text= (Sorry about bad google translate from Norwegian. :) Thomas There may be one on the wiki somewhere. Besides the points Barry made, I would add: 1. Easier personal filtering. Geeks can use the List-* headers, non-geeks the Subject tags. 2. Common spam filtering (including vacation messages :-). 3. Common attachment filtering and storage. 4. Vacation functionality (for those who are willing to log in and set no-mail). 5. Dupe filtering (for those who are willing to log in and set not-me-too). 6. Advanced distribution and archive functionality (coming in Mailman 3). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/thomas%40ifi.uio.no -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
I would have thought the biggest problem with a Cc list is keeping the list up to date. If new people need to be added, removed or updated, people may use an old list for a long time after. It may be impossible to get some people to update it ever, or they might update then revert to an old one. If it's only a few people then a cc list can work ok, but it can be near impossible to set up usable message rules. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad > On 3 Dec 2014, at 1:39 pm, Barry S. Finkel wrote: > >> On 12/2/2014 6:05 PM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: >> I have been a long-time user of mailman and have been on many mailing >> lists. >> >> I am also part of a professional association of social workers that >> operate in my area. They have been using a list of addresses in a Cc >> field to manage their mailing list. I can't imagine anything more >> fraught with problems than that, but I can't convince these people to >> let me host a mailman mailing list for them. >> >> I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone >> has seen a good list somewhere. I'm a strange combination of software >> engineer and social worker, so I understand both worlds. My social >> worker colleagues tend to think of something like a mailing list as >> complicating things rather than simplifying them. >> >> I'm not necessarily asking for a discussion here, but I'd like some >> feedback on this. >> >> Viva Mailman! >> >> Rex Goode > > Using a "Cc:" list has problems: > > 1) Someone might omit one or more addresses, and then some of the >intended recipients will not get the e-mail. And it may be a >different group, depending upon which sender omits which addresses. > > 2) An e-mail with too many recipient addresses might be classified as >spam by a recipient's ISP, and using a "Bcc:" list avoids this >problem but then no one knows the entire recipient list for replying. > > These are the first two that come to mind, and I think that with these > two, you do not need any more reasons to avoid using a Mailman list. > > And Mailman provides an archive of the postings and can control > who can post to the list. > > --Barry Finkel > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Advantages
r...@rexgoode.com writes: > I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone > has seen a good list somewhere. There may be one on the wiki somewhere. Besides the points Barry made, I would add: 1. Easier personal filtering. Geeks can use the List-* headers, non-geeks the Subject tags. 2. Common spam filtering (including vacation messages :-). 3. Common attachment filtering and storage. 4. Vacation functionality (for those who are willing to log in and set no-mail). 5. Dupe filtering (for those who are willing to log in and set not-me-too). 6. Advanced distribution and archive functionality (coming in Mailman 3). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages
On 12/2/2014 6:05 PM, r...@rexgoode.com wrote: I have been a long-time user of mailman and have been on many mailing lists. I am also part of a professional association of social workers that operate in my area. They have been using a list of addresses in a Cc field to manage their mailing list. I can't imagine anything more fraught with problems than that, but I can't convince these people to let me host a mailman mailing list for them. I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a good list somewhere. I'm a strange combination of software engineer and social worker, so I understand both worlds. My social worker colleagues tend to think of something like a mailing list as complicating things rather than simplifying them. I'm not necessarily asking for a discussion here, but I'd like some feedback on this. Viva Mailman! Rex Goode Using a "Cc:" list has problems: 1) Someone might omit one or more addresses, and then some of the intended recipients will not get the e-mail. And it may be a different group, depending upon which sender omits which addresses. 2) An e-mail with too many recipient addresses might be classified as spam by a recipient's ISP, and using a "Bcc:" list avoids this problem but then no one knows the entire recipient list for replying. These are the first two that come to mind, and I think that with these two, you do not need any more reasons to avoid using a Mailman list. And Mailman provides an archive of the postings and can control who can post to the list. --Barry Finkel -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Advantages
I have been a long-time user of mailman and have been on many mailing lists. I am also part of a professional association of social workers that operate in my area. They have been using a list of addresses in a Cc field to manage their mailing list. I can't imagine anything more fraught with problems than that, but I can't convince these people to let me host a mailman mailing list for them. I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a good list somewhere. I'm a strange combination of software engineer and social worker, so I understand both worlds. My social worker colleagues tend to think of something like a mailing list as complicating things rather than simplifying them. I'm not necessarily asking for a discussion here, but I'd like some feedback on this. Viva Mailman! Rex Goode -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
