Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[JRC Groups]

Mark,


Thank you for your helpful reply.

Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you
could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my
problem ?

All I need is for someone who is experienced with OS Server and understands
its System Administrator tool to log in on my server remotely and review my
settings to make sure I haven't done anything wrong and possibly make a few
corrections if they happen to be necessary. It goes without saying that I
will be happy to pay for the consultation fee.

After I am sure that everything is set-up properly on the server I will then
continue with Mailman and decide whether I should just use the one bundled
with OS X Server or if I should download it and do new install.

Thank you,


Joe

--


On 3/28/11 1:27 PM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>> While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
>> my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
>> be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
>> referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
>> Server.
> 
> 
> Just a quick addendum to Brad's response. From the point of view of the
> mail server rather than Mailman, There should be full circle DNS.
> I.e., an rDNS lookup of the server's IP address should give a
> host/domain name and a lookup of that name should return an A record
> (not a CNAME) with the same IP. Also, when sending mail, the server
> should identify itself in HELO with the same name.
> 
> These things should be true for any mail server regardless of Mailman.
> 
> Now if a mailman list is in a virtual domain, the envelope sender of
> messages from that list will be the virtual domain. This is fine, but
> if the virtual domain publishes an SPF record, it needs to specify the
> server's name as a permitted sender.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Brad Knowles]

Sorry, my wife's computer has been down for days, and in the meanwhile she as 
taken over mine. At this point, all I've got is an iPad and a semi-wonky server 
in the closet, and neither of them is well suited for keeping up with lots of 
email. I'll fix that when I get her computer repaired and back into her hands 
so that I can get my computer back, but until then I'm going to be even more of 
an absentee admin for this list than normal.

I may actually be getting a job soon doing Enterprise Mac OS X consulting, and 
if I do then I will let you folks know. If that happens, then I could 
potentially be available to do remote consulting for this kind of stuff through 
my employer.

-- 
Brad Knowles
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 3, 2011, at 1:42 AM, JRC Groups  wrote:

> Thanks Brad and Mark for your helpful and detailed replies.
> 
> I have reached a point where I have the lists almost working but there are
> some issues still preventing the systems from functioning in a way that
> allows me to confident to launch these lists I wish to create.
> 
> Apple's support has been MIA at best so I have given up and decided to seek
> other alternatives. Also, the numerous individuals I have spoken with at
> Apple were clearly (1) not interested in making any improvements or fixing
> the current issues with the version of Mailman that ships with OS X Server
> and (2) didn't know any more about it than I do (which is quite embarrassing
> considering they are part of the company's business support department).
> 
> I can't imagine that there is anything other than some minor set-up issues
> that need to be corrected with my system. After all, I am sending and
> receiving e-mails and the lists are functional (to an extent anyway) as they
> send and receive messages. However, as I stated above, I don't want to
> launch the lists only to attract subscribers and then find out in a short
> while that Mailman has stopped working because something with my system
> wasn't set-up properly.
> 
> I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version
> of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring
> Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task.
> 
> Brad, since you have this much experience with OS X Server would you be
> interested in helping me with my problem ? In case you are, please contact
> me off-list so that we can discuss it. I believe you should be able to
> connect remotely, right ? In case you are not interested, would you
> recommend me someone who is knowledgeable on both OS X Server and Mailman ?
> I have contacted numerous Apple consultants but couldn't find a single one
> who had any experience with Mailman.
> 
> Thanks again for your helpful replies.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Joe
> 
> ---
> 
> On 3/30/11 5:36 PM, "Brad Knowles"  wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
>>> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
>>> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.
>> 
>> I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time.  I came within a hairs
>> breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR.  I've got all the
>> PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X
>> Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject.
>> And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for 
>> over
>> twenty years.
>> 
>> The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and
>> support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the
>> business than I do.
>> 
>> I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both
>> cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to
>> install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.
>> 
>> 
>> The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no
>> less), and the support we provide is best effort.  There is no commercial
>> version of Mailman that we sell or officially support.  Anyone else that
>> includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell,
>> should include with that a full after-sales support staff.
>> 
>> 
>> Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X
>> "Lion".
>> 
>> No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server"
>> edition used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the
>> people who developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned
>> over to the mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of
>> products and services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses
>> exclusively on the retail/home user market.
>> 
>> But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look
>> towards solutions in this space.
>> 

Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Larry Stone]

On 4/3/11 1:42 AM, JRC Groups at joemailgro...@gmail.com wrote:


> I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version
> of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring
> Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task.

It should not be difficult. I'll repeat what I posted Wednesday:

"I'll add that there are a number of here who run Mailman on OS X "Client".
Searching the archives, you will find full step-by-step directions for
installing it. Blowing away the Apple provided Mailman (or just ignoring it)
and installing a clean unmodified version from source will give you, on OS X
Server, the same as those of on "Client" have."

Going through the process yourself will teach you far more than having
someone do it for you.

-- 
Larry Stone
lston...@stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[JRC Groups]

Thanks Brad and Mark for your helpful and detailed replies.

I have reached a point where I have the lists almost working but there are
some issues still preventing the systems from functioning in a way that
allows me to confident to launch these lists I wish to create.

Apple's support has been MIA at best so I have given up and decided to seek
other alternatives. Also, the numerous individuals I have spoken with at
Apple were clearly (1) not interested in making any improvements or fixing
the current issues with the version of Mailman that ships with OS X Server
and (2) didn't know any more about it than I do (which is quite embarrassing
considering they are part of the company's business support department).

I can't imagine that there is anything other than some minor set-up issues
that need to be corrected with my system. After all, I am sending and
receiving e-mails and the lists are functional (to an extent anyway) as they
send and receive messages. However, as I stated above, I don't want to
launch the lists only to attract subscribers and then find out in a short
while that Mailman has stopped working because something with my system
wasn't set-up properly.

I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version
of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring
Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task.

Brad, since you have this much experience with OS X Server would you be
interested in helping me with my problem ? In case you are, please contact
me off-list so that we can discuss it. I believe you should be able to
connect remotely, right ? In case you are not interested, would you
recommend me someone who is knowledgeable on both OS X Server and Mailman ?
I have contacted numerous Apple consultants but couldn't find a single one
who had any experience with Mailman.

Thanks again for your helpful replies.

Best regards,

Joe

---

On 3/30/11 5:36 PM, "Brad Knowles"  wrote:

> On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote:
> 
>> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
>> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
>> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.
> 
> I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time.  I came within a hairs
> breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR.  I've got all the
> PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X
> Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject.
> And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for over
> twenty years.
> 
> The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and
> support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the
> business than I do.
> 
> I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both
> cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to
> install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.
> 
> 
> The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no
> less), and the support we provide is best effort.  There is no commercial
> version of Mailman that we sell or officially support.  Anyone else that
> includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell,
> should include with that a full after-sales support staff.
> 
> 
> Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X
> "Lion".
> 
> No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server"
> edition used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the
> people who developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned
> over to the mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of
> products and services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses
> exclusively on the retail/home user market.
> 
> But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look
> towards solutions in this space.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles 
> LinkedIn Profile: 
> 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Larry Stone]

On 3/30/11 7:36 PM, Brad Knowles at b...@shub-internet.org wrote:

> I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both
> cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to
> install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.

I'll add that there are a number of here who run Mailman on OS X "Client".
Searching the archives, you will find full step-by-step directions for
installing it. Blowing away the Apple provided Mailman (or just ignoring it)
and installing a clean unmodified version from source will give you, on OS X
Server, the same as those of on "Client" have.

-- 
Larry Stone
lston...@stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/


--
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Brad Knowles]

On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote:

> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.

I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time.  I came within a hairs 
breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR.  I've got all the 
PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X 
Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject.  
And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for over 
twenty years.

The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and 
support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the 
business than I do.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both cases, 
the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to install the 
"real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.


The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no 
less), and the support we provide is best effort.  There is no commercial 
version of Mailman that we sell or officially support.  Anyone else that 
includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell, 
should include with that a full after-sales support staff.


Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X 
"Lion".

No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server" edition 
used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the people who 
developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned over to the 
mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of products and 
services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses exclusively on the 
retail/home user market.

But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look 
towards solutions in this space.

--
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[JRC Groups]

Thank you Mark and Brad for your replies.

>From what I can tell rDNS seems to be working properly. I've created some
lists and they also seem to be working well. I used some test e-mails
(e-mail accounts I have) and received welcome e-mail from the lists after
subscribing.

The problem that keeps throwing me off is the problem we discussed here
before. The list info page keeps reverting back to the name of the server
instead of the name of the domain. I have, as you suggested, edited the
mailman configuration file several times and every time I do it the info
page changes to displaying the domain name associated with the list on the
page. But as soon as I do anything in OS X Server's System Administration
tool it reverts back to the server's name.

I've been told it could be related to way I have OS X Server set-up. Based
on a discussion I have had with another Apple Consultant I have even
considered downloading Mailman and doing a fresh install to use this version
instead of the one that Apple bundles with OS X. However I am afraid that
(1) this could cause some type of conflict and (2) if the problem is related
to some of my settings in OS X Server it may not work just as the bundled
version doesn't.

Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.

Thank you in advance,

Joe




On 3/28/11 1:27 PM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>> While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
>> my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
>> be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
>> referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
>> Server.
> 
> 
> Just a quick addendum to Brad's response. From the point of view of the
> mail server rather than Mailman, There should be full circle DNS.
> I.e., an rDNS lookup of the server's IP address should give a
> host/domain name and a lookup of that name should return an A record
> (not a CNAME) with the same IP. Also, when sending mail, the server
> should identify itself in HELO with the same name.
> 
> These things should be true for any mail server regardless of Mailman.
> 
> Now if a mailman list is in a virtual domain, the envelope sender of
> messages from that list will be the virtual domain. This is fine, but
> if the virtual domain publishes an SPF record, it needs to specify the
> server's name as a permitted sender.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Mark Sapiro]

JRC Groups wrote:
>
>While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
>my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
>be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
>referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
>Server.


Just a quick addendum to Brad's response. From the point of view of the
mail server rather than Mailman, There should be full circle DNS.
I.e., an rDNS lookup of the server's IP address should give a
host/domain name and a lookup of that name should return an A record
(not a CNAME) with the same IP. Also, when sending mail, the server
should identify itself in HELO with the same name.

These things should be true for any mail server regardless of Mailman.

Now if a mailman list is in a virtual domain, the envelope sender of
messages from that list will be the virtual domain. This is fine, but
if the virtual domain publishes an SPF record, it needs to specify the
server's name as a permitted sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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