Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman

[Detlef Neubauer]

"diego" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Please, What do i have to do to run Mailman?
> 
> I have finished the install process, but and now?
> 
> How can I run Mailman?.

Read the README, FAQ and INSTALL file from the sourcetree. Follow the
instructions and it works fine.

If you have a special problem ask.

 Gruß Detlef Neubauer

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RE: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman

[Enriko Groen]

-Original Message-
From: diego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

>Please, What do i have to do to run Mailman?
>I have finished the install process, but and now?
>How can I run Mailman?.

If you followed the install procedures then Mailman should be running
already.

Please add more detail to what you mean by 'How can I run Mailman'.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman

[diego santacruz]

Hi Detlef,
I receive a message "SORRY, We hit a BUG"
and Mailman doesn't work.
I will try reinstalling mailman but
what do i do to desinstall first?
Thank you.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman

[Detlef Neubauer]

diego santacruz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Hello Diego,

> I will try reinstalling mailman but
> what do i do to desinstall first?

Delete all normal directorys in mailmans home and the file
/var/spool/cron/mailman.

I think, that's all.

 Gruß Detlef Neubauer

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RE: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman Lists

[Enriko Groen]

> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 17:21
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman Lists
> 
> 
> How do you send a message to a list? I think I have everything
> configured properly but when I send a message to @ domain> I get "User Unknown" back from sendmail on the 
> mailman server. I
> cannot find a user's guide or any documentation. 

Have you added the aliases generated by the newlist command to your local
aliases file/database? Also be sure to run newaliases if required.

Documentation is available from the Mailman (list.org) site.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman Lists

[Phil Stracchino]

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:20:35AM -0400, Bill Jones wrote:
> How do you send a message to a list? I think I have everything
> configured properly but when I send a message to @ domain> I get "User Unknown" back from sendmail on the mailman server. I
> cannot find a user's guide or any documentation. 

Sounds to me like you didn't configure the list aliases in your MTA.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman with RPM

[Jon Carnes]

You would need to get the SRPMs (the source RPM's), which would be way more
trouble than just dropping down the tar-ball and doing it form that!

Jon Carnes
- Original Message -
From: "Joel Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using mailman with RPM


> I have recently installed mailman and have gotten it working, however I
would like
> to know how to get mailman working with RedHat's RPM'ed version of
mailman. It
> looks like I have to reconfigure the source with the --with-mail-gid and
the --with-
> cgi-gid tags.
>
> How would I do this with the RPM'd version??
>
> I have already tried
>
> rpm --rebuild --with-mail-gid=mail --with-cgi-gid=nobody
mailman-2.0.6-1.src.rpm
>
> I get an error that says that it doesn't know what --with-mail-gid is.
>
> What am I doing wrong. Is there any way that I can recompile the RPM'd
version??
> --
> Respectfully,
>
> Joel Webb
> WebbGroup Network Systems LLC
> www.webbgroup.net
> 336.841.7241
>
> --
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users


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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman with RPM

[Joel Webb]

That is what I am talking about. Using the source RPMS

Jon Carnes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: 
>
>You would need to get the SRPMs (the source RPM's), which would be way more
>trouble than just dropping down the tar-ball and doing it form that!
>
>Jon Carnes
>- Original Message -
>From: "Joel Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 6:12 PM
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] using mailman with RPM
>
>
>> I have recently installed mailman and have gotten it working, however I
>would like
>> to know how to get mailman working with RedHat's RPM'ed version of
>mailman. It
>> looks like I have to reconfigure the source with the --with-mail-gid and
>the --with-
>> cgi-gid tags.
>>
>> How would I do this with the RPM'd version??
>>
>> I have already tried
>>
>> rpm --rebuild --with-mail-gid=mail --with-cgi-gid=nobody
>mailman-2.0.6-1.src.rpm
>>
>> I get an error that says that it doesn't know what --with-mail-gid is.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong. Is there any way that I can recompile the RPM'd
>version??
>> --
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Joel Webb
>> WebbGroup Network Systems LLC
>> www.webbgroup.net
>> 336.841.7241
>>
>> --
>> Mailman-Users maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>

-- 
Respectfully,

Joel Webb
WebbGroup Network Systems LLC
www.webbgroup.net
336.841.7241

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman and news

[Kai Schaetzl]

David Bear wrote on Mon, 10 May 2004 16:53:11 -0700:

> I would like to setup a mail list that is threaded like a news group.
>

What exactly do you mean? Threading is done by the client and good clients 
do good threading in mail *and* news.


Kai

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman and news

[texas critter]

David Bear wrote:

> I would like to setup a mail list that is threaded like a news group.
>
> Does mailman provide an nntp server or do I need to 'connect' to some
> other program?

Mailman doesn't include an nntp server, you'd need to either set one up on
your server or use an existing news server elsewhere.

hth,
texas critter

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman and news

[David Bear]

can you make a recommendations for a good (ie safe and simple nntp
server that works well with mailman)?

On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 07:19:48PM -0500, texas critter wrote:
> David Bear wrote:
> 
> > I would like to setup a mail list that is threaded like a news group.
> >
> > Does mailman provide an nntp server or do I need to 'connect' to some
> > other program?
> 
> Mailman doesn't include an nntp server, you'd need to either set one up on
> your server or use an existing news server elsewhere.
> 
> hth,
> texas critter
> 
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> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman and news

[Brad Knowles]

At 4:53 PM -0700 2004/05/10, David Bear wrote:

 I would like to setup a mail list that is threaded like a news group.
	That feature is already provided in the standard "pipermail" 
archiver which is included with Mailman.

 Does mailman provide an nntp server or do I need to 'connect' to some
 other program?
	No, Mailman does not provide an NNTP server.  However, you can 
configure it to gateway a mailing list to a newsgroup via an NNTP 
server you specify, either one-way or bi-directional.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman and news

[texas critter]

David Bear wrote:

> can you make a recommendations for a good (ie safe and simple nntp
> server that works well with mailman)?

Pretty much any reliable news server will work fine with Mailman.  Here's
the two I use:

http://www.individual.net/

They're free, but they have some limitations, I think primarily on the
binary newsgroups.  Read their faq and ask them questions if you're not
sure.

http://www.newsguy.com/

They're not free but they're pretty cheap and reliable, I have a news
account there for $6/month.

I use my newsguy account to gate mail to news and news to mail and it works
fine.  I haven't tried my individual.net account with Mailman but there's
no reason it wouldn't work.

hth,
texas critter

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:04:47AM +0100, Peter D Sparkes wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.
> 
> Mailman Requirements::
> 
>  * Collect email addresses
>  *   Send out newsletters
>  * No subscriber to have access to the list
>  * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
>  * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.
> 
> From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these 
> requirements.

Did you see the wiki?

http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

[Peter D Sparkes]

No I did not, thank you Adam

Peter

On 29/08/2012 16:01, Adam McGreggor wrote:

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:04:47AM +0100, Peter D Sparkes wrote:

Hi

I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.

Mailman Requirements::

  * Collect email addresses
  *   Send out newsletters
  * No subscriber to have access to the list
  * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
  * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.

 From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these 
requirements.

Did you see the wiki?

 http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

[Debra Currie]

Thank you, I have been through this exercise recently and whilst I didn't find 
this particular information in time, putting all the 'newsletter' related 
guidance together in one place is a great idea and very valuable

-Original Message-
From: Adam McGreggor [mailto:adam-mail...@amyl.org.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2012 1:02 AM
To: Peter D Sparkes
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:04:47AM +0100, Peter D Sparkes wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am currently using exim4 on Linux Debian and intend to install Mailman.
> 
> Mailman Requirements::
> 
>  * Collect email addresses
>  *   Send out newsletters
>  * No subscriber to have access to the list
>  * administrator to be able to add, delete email addresses.
>  * Only administrator to be able to send newsletters/emails to list members.
> 
> From the documentation I can't see how to configure Mailman to meet these 
> requirements.

Did you see the wiki?

http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030685


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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman for newsletter

[Mark Sapiro]

Manlio Perillo wrote:
>
>Is it possible to use Mailman for sending newsletter (where each user 
>should receive a personalized version of the email, using a template)?


It is possible to 'fully personalize' a Mailman list which will put the
recipient's address in the To: header of the message sent to that
recipient and which allows some personal information to be inserted in
the list's msg_header and msg_footer, but Mailman doesn't support
substituting information into a template or otherwise personalizing
the actual message body.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman for newsletter

[Manlio Perillo]

Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
> Manlio Perillo wrote:
>> Is it possible to use Mailman for sending newsletter (where each user 
>> should receive a personalized version of the email, using a template)?
> 
> 
> It is possible to 'fully personalize' a Mailman list which will put the
> recipient's address in the To: header of the message sent to that
> recipient and which allows some personal information to be inserted in
> the list's msg_header and msg_footer,

What params can be specified with msg_header and footer?



Regards  Manlio Perillo
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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman for newsletter

[Mark Sapiro]

Manlio Perillo wrote:
>
>What params can be specified with msg_header and footer?

>From the help for msg_header:

Text prepended to the top of every immediately-delivery message. This
text can include Python format strings which are resolved against list
attributes. The list of substitutions allowed are:

* real_name - The "pretty" name of the list; usually the list name
with capitalization.
* list_name - The name by which the list is identified in URLs,
where case is significant.
* host_name - The fully qualified domain name that the list server
runs on.
* web_page_url - The base URL for Mailman. This can be appended
with, e.g. listinfo/%(list_name)s to yield the listinfo page for the
mailing list.
* description - The brief description of the mailing list.
* info - The full description of the mailing list.
* cgiext - The extension added to CGI scripts. 

When personalization is enabled for this list, additional substitution
variables are allowed in your headers and footers:

* user_address - The address of the user, coerced to lower case.
* user_delivered_to - The case-preserved address that the user is
subscribed with.
* user_password - The user's password.
* user_name - The user's full name.
* user_optionsurl - The url to the user's option page. 

The same substitutions apply to msg_footer.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman at School

[Brad Knowles]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


EXAMPLE
From those 1000 address I tag/mark all the 8th grade parents addresses and
call that list Grade08.
Then I tag/mark some more addresses as 12th grade parents and call that
list Grade12, and so on.
We could make a third list called Soccer Team and tag some addresses from
both the Grade08 and Grade12 lists.


You can create umbrella and sister lists, so that you could have the 
separate Grade08 and Grade12 lists, and an AllGrades "umbrella" list that 
points to all the various separate grade lists.


But there's no way to pull up all addresses in a single list and then hit a 
"tag" button to also add them to a completely different list.  They would 
need to be subscribed individually to each list that they would be a member of.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

[Mark Sapiro]

Sylvain wrote:
>
>I plan to use Mailman to set up a Newsletter system. I'll have to define
>2 or 3 differents Newsletters. I'm able to use Mailman as his first
>function, a powerfull mailing list system :)
>
>I've check the FAQ
>(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.11)
>but I have some questions.

Thanks for checking the FAQ first.

>I'm running Mailman version 2.1.4 (taken from backports.org) on a Debian
>Woody.
>
>1/ I've created a list with the command "newlist mynewsletter"
>2/ I've copy and paste the aliases block in my /etc/aliases and ran
>   newaliases
>3/ Once my list is created, what email address will I have to use to
>   register on the Newsletter ? With what subject ? When I'll got it
>   running, I'll create a form on my website to subscribe/unsubscribe on
>   the newsletter.
>
>Actually, when I send an email on [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
>the
>subject "subscribe", I see the mail arriving on my server through
>Postfix logs but I don't receive any confirmation mail back and no new
>entry in the Membership List.

To subscribe via e-mail send "blank" e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or send e-mail eith subject
"subscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] is the posting address of the list, i.e.
the address to which you send to have the mail resent to all the list
members. Since your list has no members yet, this mail is essentially
ignored.

If you have set up your web server properly, you should also be able to
subscribe by going to something like
http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mynewsletter and you should be
able to adjust the various list settings at
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mynewsletter

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters

[Sylvain]

Le Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 01:56:02PM -0800, Mark Sapiro ecrivait : 
> Thanks for checking the FAQ first.

No problem ! I usualy prefere to find the solution by myself :)

> To subscribe via e-mail send "blank" e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] or send e-mail eith subject
> "subscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Ok, it works when I send an email at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ! I can see the mail passing in my
Postfix logs and the bounce from Mailman arrives, and I appear in the
Members List. So everything works fine. 

My problem was a permission problem :/ I've just tail -f the error log
file of Mailman and I got this :

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/rtcw-tux/config.pck'

Well, I think my installation of Postfix is not very clean. It has been
installed from the sources and I had a lot of problems to make Mailman
working fine with acting as a Mailing-List manager.

Anyway, this is a 'test' server. I'll try to set this system on a clean
installation :)

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the posting address of the list, i.e.
> the address to which you send to have the mail resent to all the list
> members. Since your list has no members yet, this mail is essentially
> ignored.

Ok, this step is working to. If, as a simple member of the list, I send
an email on [EMAIL PROTECTED], it's rejected with the error
message I've defined, so that's ok!

> If you have set up your web server properly, you should also be able to
> subscribe by going to something like
> http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mynewsletter and you should be
> able to adjust the various list settings at
> http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mynewsletter

Yep, this step is working just fine too.

Thanks for your help!

cheers,
Sylvain



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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman in our product

[Free Software Foundation]

Teo de Hesselle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From memory, you can do whatever you like to GPL'd software as long as
> you dont redistribute it.

That's not strictly true.  The GPL covers copying, redistribution, and
modification.  If any of that is done, the terms of the GPL apply.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman without /etc/aliases

[Akop Pogosian]

On Mon, 21 May 2001, Luke wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Our unix system here uses a kind of strange distributed aliases system-
> running newaliases affects /etc/aliases on all machines.  So getting
> mailman to work in the traditional sense wouldn't be acceptable at my
> site.
>

Does /etc/aliases get replaced every time or they just run "newliases"?
You can have as many aliases files as you want, take a look at the
AliasFile option in your sendmail.cf. You can add your own alias
file such as /etc/mailman.aliases. Though, if your site is using rdist or
something similar to distribute the aliases files, they might as well use
it to distribute sendmail.cf some day and nuke all your modifications.
Ask your system administrator about that.

> I do, however, have root access on my own machine.  So I could create a
> mail spool, or even a user, for each mailing list I create (not many).


That would work if you machine can receive mail on its own. If your
site has a central mail server and for each host there has an MX DNS
record that points to your mail hub then you won't be able to receive
any mail on your machine because all or most mail software out there
respects MX records. Why not ask the system administrator to install
mailman on their central mail server if there is one and make it
available to the users?


-akop



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman without /etc/aliases

[Adam Tauno Williams]

>>Our unix system here uses a kind of strange distributed aliases system-
>>running newaliases affects /etc/aliases on all machines.  So getting
>>mailman to work in the traditional sense wouldn't be acceptable at my
>>site.
>Does /etc/aliases get replaced every time or they just run "newliases"?
>You can have as many aliases files as you want, take a look at the
>AliasFile option in your sendmail.cf. You can add your own alias
>file such as /etc/mailman.aliases. Though, if your site is using rdist
>or something similar to distribute the aliases files, they might as well
>use it to distribute sendmail.cf some day and nuke all your modifications.
>Ask your system administrator about that.
>>I do, however, have root access on my own machine.  So I could create
>>a mail spool, or even a user, for each mailing list I create (not
>>many).
>That would work if you machine can receive mail on its own. If your
>site has a central mail server and for each host there has an MX DNS
>record that points to your mail hub then you won't be able to receive
>any mail on your machine because all or most mail software out there
>respects MX records. Why not ask the system administrator to install
>mailman on their central mail server if there is one and make it
>available to the users?

If your site has an LDAP directory that is also a great way to handle mail alias
distribution and supports mail routing as well.  If so, the local admins are
more likely willing to create an LDAP object for your list box then mess with
their mail servers, DNS, etc...

Of course, if you don't use LDAP this isn't very helpful.

Systems and Network Administrator
Morrison Industries
1825 Monroe Ave NW.
Grand Rapids, MI. 49505

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman in our product

[Teo de Hesselle]

From memory, you can do whatever you like to GPL'd software as long as
you dont redistribute it. If you need to redistribute it, you must also
release the source code to people you sell it to. Yes, you're allowed to
sell it, however it must be done under the GPL, which means that your
customers can also sell it, give it away, or whatever they like. You
would have no control over this.

However, as an ASP, you're probably not going to redistribute it anyway,
as it will be staying on your server.

It would be polite, though not required, to release the source to any
modifications you make back to the mailman developers so that they can
include any enhancements you create in future versions.

Go read the GPL. It's available at http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.txt

Enjoy. May the source be with you. (and all that crap.)

Shannon McCormick wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My name is Shannon McCormick and I am a member of the technology team @
> 4charity http://www.4charity.com.  We are an Application Service Provider
> (ASP) for the Non-Profit industry.  We are currently developing a Email List
> Management product that we will make available to our customers.  We are
> interested in using Mailman as the underlying email engine for sending
> messages and handling bounces.  We are building the entire user interface
> and managing/storing the list, message  and user information ourselves.  We
> will be charging our customers by some metric to use our product.  What
> license is Mailman covered by (I believe it is the GNU GPL)?  Does Mailman's
> license allow it to be used in this capacity?
> 
> Thank you, Shannon
> 
> Shannon McCormick
> 4charity.com
> 55 Merchant Street, Suite 2028
> Honolulu, HI 96813 USA
> direct: 808.585.6164
> cell: 808.781.6974
> fax: 808.585.7394
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.4charity.com
> 
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Email Administrator

Information Technology Division
University of Technology, Sydney

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman in our product

[Peter Hutnick]

> Hi,

Hi, Shannon.

> My name is Shannon McCormick and I am a member of the technology
> team @ 4charity http://www.4charity.com.  We are an Application
> Service Provider (ASP) for the Non-Profit industry.  We are
> currently developing a Email List Management product that we will
> make available to our customers.  We are interested in using
> Mailman as the underlying email engine for sending messages and
> handling bounces.  We are building the entire user interface and
> managing/storing the list, message  and user information
> ourselves.  We will be charging our customers by some metric to
> use our product.  What license is Mailman covered by (I believe
> it is the GNU GPL)?  Does Mailman's license allow it to be used
> in this capacity?

It seems that you are asking for legal advice.  I think that the best
thing to do would be to have your legal department look at the GPL. 
You wouldn't really rely (or bet your business) on legal advice from a
bunch of hackers, would you?

Anyway, I think you would be fine.  I charge for services based on
Free Software all the time.

-Peter



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache James

[Dallas Bethune]

Hi,

I don't know anything about Apache James, but if it doesn't accept  
pipes as aliases, it's probably not going to work with mailman or any  
list server software.

	Dallas



On Friday, March 21, 2003, at 05:58 pm, Güray Sen wrote:

Hullo everyone,

Has anyone got Mailman to work with the Apache James mail server? I  
seem to be running into a configuration problem. After creating the  
list Test, Mailman tells me to setup the following aliases:

## test mailing list
## created: 21-Mar-2003 root
test:"|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
test-admin:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner  
test"
test-request:"|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
test-owner:  test-admin

Easy enough if you are using sendmail, because you can just copy&paste  
the above into /etc/aliases and run "newaliases". What about James? I  
can create aliases with the Remote Administrator, but I don't think  
James supports the piping construct.

Any idea's appreciated.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Hello,

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Dark Servant wrote:

> The mailinglists works, but the admininterface gives me a headache.
>
> The Webserver is not accessible from the outsite, so I have to use a
> SSH-Tunnel like
> ssh -L 8080:localhost:80 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Going to, for example,
> http://localhost:8080/mailman/private/mailman/listinfo/knownlist, shows me
> the listinformation for a known list - so far so good.
> But all links on this page are absolut. The don't use localhost:8080 as
> base, they all link to http://lists.foo.com/...
>
> This is a big problem, as lists.foo.com is not accessible - the frontend is
> not usable for me.
>
> Can the scripts be configured, not to use this absolute URLs?

You could probably use fix_url.py to change it. But anyway, wouldn't it be 
better for you to set up a VPN connection to that machine? I do that on a 
router level and then once I am in, I can use administrative interface on 
the LAN.

HTH

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel

[Patrick Bogen]

On 11/28/06, Dark Servant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I setup mailman to manage lists at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> The mailinglists works, but the admininterface gives me a headache.
>
> The Webserver is not accessible from the outsite, so I have to use a
> SSH-Tunnel like
> ssh -L 8080:localhost:80 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Another option might be to use a console-mode web browser, such as
elinks. The Mailman pages are pretty simple in their construction, and
so elinks should be more than adequate for whatever you need to do.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel

[Dark Servant]

On 11/28/06, Zbigniew Szalbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Dark Servant wrote:
>
> > The mailinglists works, but the admininterface gives me a headache.
> >
> > The Webserver is not accessible from the outsite, so I have to use a
> > SSH-Tunnel like
> > ssh -L 8080:localhost:80 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Going to, for example,
> > http://localhost:8080/mailman/private/mailman/listinfo/knownlist, shows
> me
> > the listinformation for a known list - so far so good.
> > But all links on this page are absolut. The don't use localhost:8080 as
> > base, they all link to http://lists.foo.com/...
> >
> > This is a big problem, as lists.foo.com is not accessible - the frontend
> is
> > not usable for me.
> >
> > Can the scripts be configured, not to use this absolute URLs?
>
> You could probably use fix_url.py to change it. But anyway, wouldn't it be
> better for you to set up a VPN connection to that machine? I do that on a
> router level and then once I am in, I can use administrative interface on
> the LAN.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Zbigniew Szalbot



Hm.. what exactly does the fix_url script do? Changing the URLs on the
interface as I want?
Am I right that setting the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to something like "
http://localhost:8080/mailman"; will work for me, as long people always
forward port 8080?

Yes, router level would be nicer, but it should work from any computer
and any network - as long as you have ssh access.

David
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel

[Patrick Bogen]

On 11/28/06, Dark Servant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hm.. what exactly does the fix_url script do? Changing the URLs on the
> interface as I want?
It changes the URLs on the pages to match the current config.

> Am I right that setting the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to something like "
> http://localhost:8080/mailman"; will work for me, as long people always
> forward port 8080?
This isn't exactly right, but you've got the general idea.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman over SSH-Tunnel

[Dark Servant]

On 11/28/06, Patrick Bogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 11/28/06, Dark Servant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hm.. what exactly does the fix_url script do? Changing the URLs on the
> > interface as I want?
> It changes the URLs on the pages to match the current config.
>
> > Am I right that setting the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to something like "
> > http://localhost:8080/mailman"; will work for me, as long people always
> > forward port 8080?
> This isn't exactly right, but you've got the general idea.
> --
> - Patrick Bogen



Ok.. after some twiddling, I came up with this configuration:
mm_cfg.py:
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = '
http://localhost:8080/%s/mailman/
'
add_virtualhost('localhost','lists.foo.com')

I also had to add
lists.foo.com/pipermail
lists.foo.com/mailman
as aliases to http.conf

The virtualhost allows me to create [EMAIL PROTECTED] lists using the
localhost-ssh-tunnel.

That seems to work on first look. Anyone already sees some problems I may
face soon?

David
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache Tomcat

[Steve Burling]

--On May 4, 2007 10:42:03 AM -0500 Meenal Pant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have a server running Liferay using apache tomcat. I access the portal
> as: https://abc.xyz.org/web/guest/home
>
> Can I still install mailman and use it with apache as described in the
> Mailman
> Documentation.(http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/front.
> html) ?
>
> Basically I want to access mailman webserver as :
> https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Will this work or do I have to integrate mailman with Tomcat ? If yes,
> then how to do so?

To which I reply:

I don't think you can do this, at least not easily.  It's possible to have 
Apache hand off stuff to Tomcat, but I don't know of a way to do the 
opposite.

To do the former, we use Apache 2's mod_proxy_ajp to hand off certain 
chunks of the URI space to Tomcat via a ProxyPass declaration in the Apache 
config.  You also have to configure Tomcat so that it doesn't listen on 
port 80, so that Apache can listen there.  This takes a little fiddling 
around with to get working, but not much.  Here's a chunk of our 
Tomcat-related part of the Apache config:

-- cut here --
## Set up mod_proxy_ajp for tomcat integration
ProxyRequests Off


  Order deny,allow
  Allow from all



ProxyPass ajp://localhost:8009/xxx

-- cut here --

You can have multiple  blocks, but for your purposes, it 
might be sufficient to just pass off /web.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache Tomcat

[D G Teed]

Hi,

If you are running Tomcat and no apache, then I'd say
don't bother.  Get the plain apache and install it,
it will be up and running in minutes rather than days
to figure out how to make tomcat run plain old HTML
with a handful of CGIs.  Use the right tool for the job.
Tomcat is designed to run Java web applications.

--Donald

On 5/4/07, Meenal Pant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have a server running Liferay using apache tomcat. I access the portal
> as:
> https://abc.xyz.org/web/guest/home
>
> Can I still install mailman and use it with apache as described in the
> Mailman
> Documentation.(
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/front.html)
> ?
>
> Basically I want to access mailman webserver as :
> https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Will this work or do I have to integrate mailman with Tomcat ? If yes,
> then how to do so?
> Thanks
> Meenal
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Apache Tomcat

[Mark Sapiro]

D G Teed wrote:
>
>If you are running Tomcat and no apache, then I'd say
>don't bother.  Get the plain apache and install it,
>it will be up and running in minutes rather than days
>to figure out how to make tomcat run plain old HTML
>with a handful of CGIs.  Use the right tool for the job.
>Tomcat is designed to run Java web applications.


Probably good advice, but see below.


>On 5/4/07, Meenal Pant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I have a server running Liferay using apache tomcat. I access the portal
>> as:
>> https://abc.xyz.org/web/guest/home
>>
>> Can I still install mailman and use it with apache as described in the
>> Mailman
>> Documentation.(
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/front.html)
>> ?
>>
>> Basically I want to access mailman webserver as :
>> https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> Will this work or do I have to integrate mailman with Tomcat ? If yes,
>> then how to do so?


There is problem with the above. If you install Apache for Mailman, you
can't access Apache at https://abc.xyz.org/ because Tomcat is
listening on that https port (443). You will have to

- use a port other than 443 or http (not https) scheme for Mailman or

- use a different domain name/IP address for Mailman or

- if possible arrange for Tomcat to pass https://abc.xyz.org/mailman/
requests to Apache.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using MailMan To Hide Addresses

[Mark Sapiro]

Atkinson, Robert wrote:

>I have a unique problem where I need to use MailMan (or another application)
>to hide my users email addresses.
> 
>Basically, I need to create a single address that a company ('Global
>Supplies') will email me on, e.g. '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> . When the email gets to me, I need to
>check and release it. It will then be distributed to all the users on the
>'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' list, BUT must still appear as if it came from the
>'Global Supplies' email address, and not mine.


This is how a Mailman list normally works, at least in part. As long as
the list is not "anonymous", the From: header in the post delivered to
the list will be that of the original post.

However, the Sender: header (and the envelope sender) would be set to
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' so automated bounce processing
works. Some MUAs, notably Microsoft Outlook, will display this
information to the user. See .


>I'd like to know if MailMan can do this, if you know of any companies that
>use MailMan where I can buy a managed service, or any other software/services
>where I can achieve the same goals.


See .

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using MailMan To Hide Addresses

[Brad Knowles]

Atkinson, Robert wrote:

I have a unique problem where I need to use MailMan (or another application)
to hide my users email addresses.
 
Basically, I need to create a single address that a company ('Global

Supplies') will email me on, e.g. '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
 . When the email gets to me, I need to
check and release it. It will then be distributed to all the users on the
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' list, BUT must still appear as if it came from the
'Global Supplies' email address, and not mine.
 
I'd like to know if MailMan can do this, if you know of any companies that

use MailMan where I can buy a managed service, or any other software/services
where I can achieve the same goals.


That sounds like a standard moderated mailing list.  Unless you choose the 
functions to convert it into an anonymous list, the sender's address will 
always appear to be that of the original sender (i.e., the "From:" header is 
not modified), pretty much regardless of what else may be done to the message.


As a moderator, you would get an e-mail message telling you that there is 
something waiting in the moderator queue, you fire up a web browser to go 
look at the queue and take action on it, and any approved messages should 
then show up on the list.


Of course, in the default configuration the sender is going to get a notice 
that their message is being held for moderation, which is good in most 
circumstances, but maybe not what you want here.



From the looks of it, I think you want to talk to some Python/Mailman 
service providers and get a more direct in-person discussion over what the 
software can and cannot do for you, what kinds of fees they charge for their 
services, etc


I'd suggest starting with the links in the "Mailman Community" page at 
 and check out both hosting services 
and consulting services.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using MailMan To Hide Addresses

[Atkinson, Robert]

Thanks for your comments, Brad.

I've contacted a couple of companies on the Hosting Services list, as the
Consultancy list is actually empty. Everything else everybody's told me seems
like MailMan will do the job, although the Python aspect (or my complete lack
of knowledge of it) could be a problem.

Rob.

-Original Message-
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 08 July 2008 20:36
To: Atkinson, Robert
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Using MailMan To Hide Addresses

Atkinson, Robert wrote:
> I have a unique problem where I need to use MailMan (or another
application)
> to hide my users email addresses.
>  
> Basically, I need to create a single address that a company ('Global
> Supplies') will email me on, e.g. '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>  . When the email gets to me, I need to
> check and release it. It will then be distributed to all the users on the
> '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' list, BUT must still appear as if it came from
the
> 'Global Supplies' email address, and not mine.
>  
> I'd like to know if MailMan can do this, if you know of any companies that
> use MailMan where I can buy a managed service, or any other
software/services
> where I can achieve the same goals.

That sounds like a standard moderated mailing list.  Unless you choose the 
functions to convert it into an anonymous list, the sender's address will 
always appear to be that of the original sender (i.e., the "From:" header is 
not modified), pretty much regardless of what else may be done to the
message.

As a moderator, you would get an e-mail message telling you that there is 
something waiting in the moderator queue, you fire up a web browser to go 
look at the queue and take action on it, and any approved messages should 
then show up on the list.

Of course, in the default configuration the sender is going to get a notice 
that their message is being held for moderation, which is good in most 
circumstances, but maybe not what you want here.


 From the looks of it, I think you want to talk to some Python/Mailman 
service providers and get a more direct in-person discussion over what the 
software can and cannot do for you, what kinds of fees they charge for their 
services, etc

I'd suggest starting with the links in the "Mailman Community" page at 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Home> and check out both hosting services 
and consulting services.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman on godaddy hosting?

[Brad Knowles]

chromatest wrote:


So, the first question is:  Can I install mailman without ssh or telnet
access?


Nope.


But you could ask them if they provide Mailman services for their customers, 
or you could sign up for service with a separate service provider for just 
the mailing list function.


In fact, given their reputation, I think I'd go with the separate service 
provider for your mailing list needs anyway.



Otherwise, you're going to need to upgrade the kind of account you have with 
them, so that you can log in via ssh and install Mailman with the 
appropriate privileges.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin

[Patrick Bogen]

On 13 Jun 2006 14:10:42 -, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
http:///cgi-bin/mailman/admin//members/add
Choose 'No' for 'Send welcome messages...' and 'Send notifications...'

> - only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web-interface to do 
> this?)
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp

> - no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to the list 
> xxx ..."
http:///cgi-bin/mailman/admin//general
'send_reminders' set to 'No'

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin

[Hung Phan]

On Jun 13, 2006, at 7:10 AM, Michael wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just installed mailman and now I want to create some lists, but I  
> want to use mailman more or less as a distribution-list-admin-tool  
> + mail-archive.
> So I want to
> - create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
You can do that in the General Options page (Send welcome message to  
newly subscribed members option) or the Mass Subscription page.
> - only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web- 
> interface to do this?)
Set every member bit to "mod" in Member page. Please looking for help  
page on mailman python, I believe there is more options that you have  
to set for it to withheld every post except yours.
> - no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to  
> the list xxx ..."
Not sure what you meant by this question?
> is this possible? what option do I have to look for!
>
> thanks for any help!
>
> michi
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for multiple Customers

[Mark Sapiro]

Samuel Figueroa wrote:
>
>   we offer web space and etc. to our customers, and would like to offer 
>them a free mailing list to go with that as well. The problem I'm 
>having with Mailman is that I can't seem to find out how to set it up 
>so that every customer gets his Mailman front end in the design of his 
>website. I know I can use virtual hosts to change the domain, but I 
>also want to change the appearance of Mailman for each customer/domain.

See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for information on editing the various templates on a per-domain basis.

Unfortunately, not all web pages are built from templates. In
particular, the generic listinfo page is not. It is built on the fly
by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py which would have to be hacked to provide
domain-specific pages.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Mark Sapiro]

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>Could Mailman be configured with multi mail server (at least 2 mail 
> server) at the same time ? So that It can transfer huge numbers of emails at 
> the same time . If yes, please let me know how to configure It.


I assume you are talking about outgoing mail. This is not a
'configuration' option. It would require significant modification to
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to implement load sharing using
multiple outgoing MTAs.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Hien HUYNH HUU]

Dear Zwanzig,
   Thank for your reply. I read the Performance section of FAQ and did exactly 
as they guide. I also tunning my mail server but the result is not as my 
expectation.
I agree with you that this is no a mailman issue . But I think If mailman 
can use load balancing MTA server, Its performance will be increased , isn't It 
? That's exactly I need now because I can't increase the bandwidth and MTA 
performance more.
   Regards,
   Huu Hien


From: Carl Zwanzig [...@tuunq.com]
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:09 PM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:
> Dear all, Could Mailman be configured with multi mail server (at least 2
> mail server) at the same time ? So that It can transfer huge numbers of
> emails at the same time . If yes, please let me know how to configure It.

You really don't need to do that. Have you read the Performance section of
the FAQ? Some -very- large lists manage to do without this 'feature'.  After
that, it's an MTA and bandwidth issue, not a mailman issue.

z!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Hien HUYNH HUU]

Dear Sapiro,
Yeah,
   That's exactly what I need , could you please tell me more what can I modify 
on SMTPDirect.py file ?
   Thank you very much for your reply.
Best regards. 
   Huu Hien

From: Mark Sapiro [m...@msapiro.net]
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:25 PM
To: Hien HUYNH HUU; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>Could Mailman be configured with multi mail server (at least 2 mail 
> server) at the same time ? So that It can transfer huge numbers of emails at 
> the same time . If yes, please let me know how to configure It.


I assume you are talking about outgoing mail. This is not a
'configuration' option. It would require significant modification to
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to implement load sharing using
multiple outgoing MTAs.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

Dear all, Could Mailman be configured with multi mail server (at least 2
mail server) at the same time ? So that It can transfer huge numbers of
emails at the same time . If yes, please let me know how to configure It.


You really don't need to do that. Have you read the Performance section of 
the FAQ? Some -very- large lists manage to do without this 'feature'.  After 
that, it's an MTA and bandwidth issue, not a mailman issue.


z!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Mark Sapiro]

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

>   That's exactly what I need , could you please tell me more what can I 
> modify on SMTPDirect.py file ?


If I were doing this, I would modify the Connection class constructor
to accept host and port arguments and use them in the __connect()
method instead of mm_cfg.SMTPHOST and mm_cfg.SMTPPORT. Then I would
modify the

conn = Connection()
try:
[...]
finally:
conn.quit()
msgdata['recips'] = origrecips

code in process to instantiate multiple connections to multiple
servers. Maybe make mm_cfg.SMTPHOST and mm_cfg.SMTPPORT lists, and
instantiate one connection for each host/port pair. Then round-robbin
through the connections in the deliveryfunc() call in the while loop.

If the above is not clear, you have to learn Python until it becomes
clear.

Your effort would probably be better spent either learning how to tune
your existing MTA to be more performant or installing a more
performant MTA. In an earlier post, you mentioned delivering 10,000
messages in 10 minutes (a rate of 16.7 messages per second) as an
acceptable rate. On my server using Postfix essentially out-of-the-box
and full Mailman VERP, Mailman delivers on the order of 50 messages
per second to Postfix.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Hien HUYNH HUU writes:

 > I agree with you that this is no a mailman issue . But I think If
 > mailman can use load balancing MTA server, Its performance will be
 > increased , isn't It ? That's exactly I need now because I can't
 > increase the bandwidth and MTA performance more.

If you are bandwidth-limited, you're stuck.  You have to increase
bandwidth, or use it more efficiently.

If you are not bandwidth-limited, I find it hard to believe that you
*can't* improve the performance of the MTA to at least the level you
require.  It seems likely that whatever bottleneck is slowing your
system down would apply to the "load balancing MTA" just as it does to
your current one.  You need to figure out what is slowing down your
system.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Stefan Förster]

* Hien HUYNH HUU :
>  Could Mailman be configured with multi mail server (at least 2
>  mail server) at the same time ? So that It can transfer huge
>  numbers of emails at the same time . If yes, please let me know
>  how to configure It.

I'm pretty sure you are doing it wrong (configuring your MTA, I mean)
- or perhaps you are simply limited badnwith-wise. You might want to
show us you MTA/Mailman integration so that we can come up with some
helpful hints.

Other than that, I think you have three options:
1. Get a load balancer. Their prices are down to the low five digit
range nowadays.
2. Build yourself a load balancer (helpful Google keywords might be
"ldirector", "linux lvs" and "pacemaker", "openais", "heatbeat" for
availability).
3. If mail is leaving your MTA at a slow rate but the delivery from
Mailman to the MTA is fast, try running several queue runners and
specify an SMTPHOST wit a DNS record pointing to several addresses
(I'm not really sure about this one, perhaps Mark could clarify).


Cheers
Stefan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Mark Sapiro]

Stefan Förster wrote:

> 3. If mail is leaving your MTA at a slow rate but the delivery from
> Mailman to the MTA is fast, try running several queue runners and
> specify an SMTPHOST wit a DNS record pointing to several addresses
> (I'm not really sure about this one, perhaps Mark could clarify).


If I understand the OP's situation, this probably won't help. I think it
is a case of a single post to a large list. In this case, a single
OutgoingRunner will handle the message and the other runners will do
nothing.

The idea of multiple addresses in DNS for SMTPHOST is that multiple
connections to SMTPHOST *may* connect to different servers, but in the
short term, this probably doesn't work, because this depends on the
authoritative DNS returning the A records in different order, but once
we look up SMTPHOST, we may not ask again before TTL expires. Multiple
addresses for a name in DNS works for load balancing of a lot of
incoming connects from multiple sources. I'm not sure it works well or
at all for outgoing connects from a single source.

However, if the multiple A records does work in the short term, it may
help even in the large list scenario because SMTPDirect will close and
reopen the connection to SMTPHOST every SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
chunks, so if you set SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to a small
positive number, you may connect to a different IP for successive
connects to deliver the one message.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Brad Knowles]

On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:54 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> If I understand the OP's situation, this probably won't help. I think it
> is a case of a single post to a large list. In this case, a single
> OutgoingRunner will handle the message and the other runners will do
> nothing.

If it's a case of a single post to a large list, then the problem is most 
likely going to be Python pickle contention.  Split the large list up into 
multiple smaller sub-lists, with a parent "umbrella" list.  More info on that 
solution is in the FAQ wiki, but the OP should have already found that if they 
searched for "performance".

I can guarantee you that I can build an MTA configuration that is faster than 
Mailman could ever possibly be, for this single reason alone -- even if you run 
both on a pure RAMdisk.


As for the rest, an option would be to use a load-balancing switch (either 
hardware or implemented in software), but there's a heck of a lot of tuning to 
be done on a single machine running a properly configured MTA and a properly 
designed mailing list server infrastructure, before you get to the point where 
load balancing switches and multiple outbound mail relay servers would start to 
make a big difference.

Most of these topics are at least touched on in the FAQ Wiki and the fact that 
the OP hasn't mentioned them tells me that they either didn't do their 
homework, or they don't understand the concepts well enough to be able to do 
the homework.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman to manage a voting process?

[Adam McGreggor]

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 11:15:57AM +, Peter Hitchmough (Twokan) wrote:
> I am investigating approaches to manage a lightweight process to approve  
> documents for a shortlist. This process takes place several times a year  
> and has 20-30 interested parties and 1 administrator.
>
> A mailing list, particularly managed via Mailman, appeals to me. I have  
> glanced briefly at the Vote-MM add-in.

I've no knowledge of that.

> Mailing lists are often used to review things for publication but I  
> would like to automate the tracking. features I want to implement 
> include:

> - announcement of start, end of voting periods

Do-able via sending an email, perhaps with an iCal or similar
attachment, for people to add to their calendars?

> - announcement of new items for consideration

I presume, this will need some manual input, and not, say diff two
directories (previous / current), and mail that output out via cron,
or similar...

> - collecting Yes and No votes (possibly More Info Please votes)

Not too sure about this. I imagine that to collate this, some
discipline of list-members would be needed. TBH, I'd provide a link to
a script/google-(doc|form) for that. Validating entitlement to vote
could be done via GPG, or similar, I'd imagine. A lot depends on your
user-base.

> - announcing final result, including list of items approved

As above. Were I going with a script, it shouldn't be too difficult to
make the script do a SQL COUNT (assuming a SQL backend), for each
decision choice, and throw that out to an email.

Of course, if this is something that happens often (and 'several times
a year' is up to intepretation), it may be worth looking at automating
these stages. YMMV.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using MailMan for issue/bug dialogue tracking

[Brad Knowles]

At 11:51 AM +0200 3/29/07, Simon Hoffe wrote:

>  One promising candidate for this functionality is Roundup - the bug
>  tracker recently (Oct 06) adopted by the Python project, though I think
>  it's still in Beta. (See http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/)

We're working on it.  I have some more changes to the mail system for 
python.org that need to be implemented before we can take the next 
step.

>  *Where I need some advice:*
>  How does MailMan sort out threads. Does it use the whole subject line,
>  and resolves tree depth from the number of "Re:"'s?
>  How easy/hard would it be to make the thread sorter sensitive only to an
>  [ID:] tag in the subject?

Mailman uses the contents of the "References:" and "In-Reply-To:" 
headers, not the "Subject:" line, although it will do some trimming 
on the subject line to try to keep it more sane.

>  Is the idea of [EMAIL PROTECTED] an easy-to-implement option?

Within Mailman?  No, not really.  At least, not so far as I know.

Why not just use a different topic for each bug?  That way people who 
want information on all bugs can subscribe to the list and not track 
specific topics, while others who want information on just that one 
bug can track that one topic.

>  I'm pretty sure that MailMan will allow anonymous/non-subscriber posts,

Yup.  It's just a configuration option.

Of course, then you have to worry about everyone getting hit by spam 
which is addressed to the list.

>  Finally (and this is probably in the FAQ, so I'm being lazy by
>  asking...) - what is the best mechanism of backing up a complete MailMan
>  installation?

Yup, that's in the FAQ.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman usernames and passwords as apache2auth

[Mark Sapiro]

The Doctor What wrote:
>
>Is there a way to have apache2 Auth* directives query username and
>password from mailman?
>
>I was imagining something like:
>
>
>   AuthType Basic
>   AuthName "Some service"
>   AuthMailManList FooList
>   require valid-user
>


I doubt it is that simple, but I don't know very much about Apache.

>  but
>  mailman *has* all this code and the database of users is nearly
>  the same, if not the same.  So why write duplicate code to
>  duplicate the data!

The MailList object has an attribute 'passwords' which is a dictionary
with member's e-mail address as key and plain text password as data,
or given any membership database, the MemberAdaptor has a
getMemberPassword(member) method which returns the password for member.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman usernames and passwords as apache2auth

[The Doctor What]

* Mark Sapiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [051001 13:33]:
> The Doctor What wrote:
> >
> >Is there a way to have apache2 Auth* directives query username and
> >password from mailman?
> >
> >I was imagining something like:
> >
> >
> >   AuthType Basic
> >   AuthName "Some service"
> >   AuthMailManList FooList
> >   require valid-user
> >
> 
> 
> I doubt it is that simple, but I don't know very much about Apache.
> 
> >  but
> >  mailman *has* all this code and the database of users is nearly
> >  the same, if not the same.  So why write duplicate code to
> >  duplicate the data!
> 
> The MailList object has an attribute 'passwords' which is a dictionary
> with member's e-mail address as key and plain text password as data,
> or given any membership database, the MemberAdaptor has a
> getMemberPassword(member) method which returns the password for member.

Well, I thought about writing a mod_python plugin to do the security
for me, but the mailman db isn't quite fast enough on my poor server
(it's very old).  So I'm going to try using mod_authpostgresql.

I found the stuff you mentioned, and have it pulling out passwords
for lists.  So, I'm going to write a cron job to insert and update
some tables in postgres, then use them with mod-authpostgresql.  I
can then put an interface onto the DB and allow the listadmin to
turn on and off SVN write access and the TRAC permissions.

Thanks for your help.  If anyone has a better solution, I'd love to
hear it.

Ciao!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman with dial-up Internet access

[Hilton J Ralphs]

Quoting Steve Mansfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> My setup is this: Linux box running Fetchmail, Postfix, Procmail, Qpopper,
 Apache. This sits on a LAN and access the net through an ISDN router. My
 plan was to have list messages go to a POP server at my hosting provided
 from where I would download them with Fetchmail, which would then forward
> them to user 'mailman' on this server. Any problem with that?
 
Certainly not, works like a charm.

> Now, obviously I'm going to lose the web-based features for users, so it's
 going to be an email-only system. What I'd like to know is how much of a
 loss that would really be. I can get a list of the features I'd be missing
 from the manuals etc - what I really want to know is how important people
 feel this is - ie, a subjective response. Am I really crippling the system
 this way (and would therefore be better off opening a group on Yahoo), or
 would I be losing only moderately useful features? All informed opinions
> would be gratefully received.
 
At the end of the day it depands on various factors;

a. what do you intend to use the list for? one way distribution list or 
interactive like this one?

b. if interactive, then the question is whether it is a closed list or open to 
anyone who wants to join. Closed shouldn't be a problem, subscribe everyone 
upfront and then it's no problem. Public list needs to be advertised somewhere.

c. hosting the list via dialup means that the response time between posting an 
email and getting the mail will obviously be longer and may cause frustrations.

Good luck.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman with dial-up Internet access

[Steve Mansfield]

---
On Sunday 05 September 2004 12:41, Hilton J Ralphs wrote:
| a. what do you intend to use the list for? one way distribution list or
| interactive like this one?

Interactive. I'm considering mailman for a couple of lists - one new, one 
already hosted on yahoogroups (but I don't like the advertising and scruffy 
HTML that comes with yahoo). One reason for considering mailman is greater 
ownership and access to the message archive, with the possibility to use it 
for web content, but in a format of my choosing.

| b. if interactive, then the question is whether it is a closed list or open
| to anyone who wants to join. Closed shouldn't be a problem, subscribe
| everyone upfront and then it's no problem. Public list needs to be
| advertised somewhere.

It's effectively an open list, but in one case supporting an existing web site 
where I can advertise it and provide an online form for people to subscribe. 
(I could do this for the new list, too). Maybe it wouldn't be too hard to 
replicate some of mailman's web features account management features on that 
site (I have some PHP experience).

| c. hosting the list via dialup means that the response time between posting
| an email and getting the mail will obviously be longer and may cause
| frustrations.

My set-up does fetchmail and sendmail every 30 mins, so shouldn't be too bad, 
if not exactly instantaneous.

Thanks for the input.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman with dial-up Internet access

[Jim Tittsler]

On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 12:16:56PM +0200, Steve Mansfield wrote:
> I understand that it's perfectly possible to use mailman on a server that
> has only dial-up access to the Internet. However, I'd like to get a firm
> grasp of the downsides of doing this before I go to the effort of
> installing it.

In addition to losing the Mailman web features for the users,
you should remember that there may be mail delivery issues not
directly related to Mailman when trying to run a list from a
dial-up system.  Many ISPs block direct connections to their
mail servers from address blocks of dial-up users, which will
limit your ability to deliver mail directly to all of your
subscribers.  If you route mail through your provider's SMTP
server (smarthost), you may run afoul of traffic limits they
set on their users.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman output in web page documentation

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/17/2015 02:57 PM, Adrian Pepper wrote:
>  I found it convenient to use mechanical dumps of mailman pages in attempting
>  to create some moderator documentation, intended primarily for local use
>  at the university where I work.
> 
>  Such dumped pages do not contain any formal copyright/left statement beyond
>  alt="GNU's NOT Unix"
> 
>  1. Is there a suitable comment one could/should (should not?) add to
> attribute the source of such excerpts to GNU (GFDL?).


I am neither a lawyer nor an expert in free/open source licenses, so
take this with a grain of salt.

Mailman is produced by the GNU Mailman project which is a GNU project.
As such, the Mailman developers have assigned copyright to the Free
Software Foundation and Mailman is distributed and licensed under the
GPL (v2 for Mailman 2.1).

Section 0. of the GPL says


  0. This License applies to any program or other work which contains
a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be distributed
under the terms of this General Public License.  The "Program", below,
refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program"
means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law:
that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it,
either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another
language.  (Hereinafter, translation is included without limitation in
the term "modification".)  Each licensee is addressed as "you".

Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not
covered by this License; they are outside its scope.  The act of
running the Program is not restricted, and the output from the Program
is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the
Program (independent of having been made by running the Program).
Whether that is true depends on what the Program does.


The HTML produced by Mailman's CGI modules does contain lots of literal
strings (or translations thereof) which are part of the program, so it
is at least arguable that this HTML is a derivative work.

Thus, I think a brief statement to the effect that this HTML is
copyright by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. and licensed under the
GPL would be appropriate

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman output in web page documentation

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 12/17/2015 02:57 PM, Adrian Pepper wrote:

 > >  I found it convenient to use mechanical dumps of mailman pages
 > >  in attempting to create some moderator documentation, intended
 > >  primarily for local use at the university where I work.
 > > 
 > >  Such dumped pages do not contain any formal copyright/left
 > >  statement beyond
 > >  alt="GNU's NOT Unix"
 > > 
 > >  1. Is there a suitable comment one could/should (should not?) add to
 > > attribute the source of such excerpts to GNU (GFDL?).

FDL is not possible without permission of the FSF.  All of Mailman is
licensed under the GPL, including documentation and text included in
the executable program.  (My personal recommendation is that the FDL
should be avoided in favor of any other free license in use by the
project.  Eg, technically FDL+GPL does not permit anyone but the FSF
to move documentation out of code into manuals, or from manuals into
code.  It also has a number of obnoxious provisions like cover texts
and invariant sections which are explicitly intended to be abused to
make political statements that downstream is expected to disagree
with, and pander to commercial interests.)

 > I am neither a lawyer nor an expert in free/open source licenses, so
 > take this with a grain of salt.

IANAL, but I'm somewhat knowledgable.

 > Mailman is produced by the GNU Mailman project which is a GNU project.
 > As such, the Mailman developers have assigned copyright to the Free

This phrasing is somewhat inaccurate.  Assignment is not required of
GNU projects, nor is assignment to the FSF restricted to GNU projects.
It happens that Mailman has a policy of assigning to the FSF.

 > Software Foundation and Mailman is distributed and licensed under the
 > GPL (v2 for Mailman 2.1).

v2 or later.

 > The HTML produced by Mailman's CGI modules does contain lots of
 > literal strings (or translations thereof) which are part of the
 > program, so it is at least arguable that this HTML is a derivative
 > work.

It's clearly a derivative work.

 > Thus, I think a brief statement to the effect that this HTML is
 > copyright by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.

Adrian's copyright is probably also involved.  I'm not sure it's a
good idea to mention the FSF specifically here.  If anybody wants to
do something with Adrian's documentation beyond what's permitted by
the GPL, they probably need to talk to him first anyway, unless his
whole documentation really is just saved HTML as created by the
Mailman CGI.

 > and licensed under the GPL would be appropriate.

The FSF's current preferred form for source code is

GNU Mailman is free software: you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as
published by the Free Software Foundation, either version 2 of the
License, or (at your option) any later version.

GNU Mailman is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU
General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with GNU Mailman.  If not, see .

What I personally would do in HTML is put "This document is derived
from GNU Mailman, and distributed under the same terms." at the end of
the document, and then link to the GPL on the GNU site.  Also add the
text above as an HTML comment, or better yet as ALT= text for the link.

I'm as picky as anyone about these things.  I'm mentioning this as the
*maximum* you would want to do (anything more leads to maintenance
problems in the long run).
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[Jon Carnes]

So the problem is that you want a list of the email addresses that are
undeliverable, so they can be removed from the database (either manually or
via a script).

Mailman does some of this.  You can read the ~mailman/logs/bounce log file
and see some of the mails that are bouncing (and why).  Mailman handles
these bounces automatically for you (based on the values that put in config
for the list) - removing the bad addresses from Mailman's database.

Other bounces (that come back in a non-standard format that Mailman can't
interpret), will be posted to the admin for handling (assuming you have the
list set so that only members or admin's can post).  These messages are
stored in ~mailman/data/..

You should be able to scan the bounce log file daily and pluck out email
addresses that are bad.  You should also be able to scan the held messages
in ~mailman/data/.. and pluck out the ones that are bounces.  The syntax of
a script to do that on a daily basis is pretty simple.

You could then feed that list of bad addresses into a script that flags them
in your oracle database.

Note: some folks have reported that Mailman drops certain bounces.  In
otherwords, they just disappear.  I haven't seen that kind of behavior, but
if it is true, then you will miss some of the bounces that come back, and
you will do better to simply run a email checking program.  There are
several versions available.  You feed the program a list of email addresses,
and it gives you back a list of bad email addresses and good email
addresses.

The address checking program opens up a message envelope with a mail server
and act as though it is going to drop off a piece of mail for the user in
question.  If the server okays it, then the program simply stops talking to
the server and no message is sent.  If the server rejects the address, the
program marks the address as bad.  Again no message is sent.

You will get some false positives from this, but it does works for a
majority of bad addresses.

Hope this helps - Jon Carnes
- Original Message -
From: "Morten Brix Pedersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:20 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons


> Hi,
>
> At my company, we have a rather big amount of websites where users can
> subscribe to newsletters and more. Now we are having the problem that
> more than 3000 messages are coming back as mailer demons, and a person
> has to delete these e-mails automatically.
>
> All the e-mail addresses lies in an Oracle database.
>
> Question: Is it possible to set up Mailman to do this?:
>
> 1) When a mailer-demon is received for the Xth time, Mailman executes a
> program to delete the user from our Oracle database (and delete it from
> Mailmans database)
>
> 2) All e-mails not being mailer-demons, should still go through to the
> right person. That is, if an e-mail is being sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], then
> mailer-demons should be filtered of, and normal e-mails should still be
> sent to the appropriate person.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - Morten.
>
> --
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[Morten Brix Pedersen]

Hi Jon,

* Jon Carnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-01-14 19:00:41]:
> So the problem is that you want a list of the email addresses that are
> undeliverable, so they can be removed from the database (either manually or
> via a script).

Right.

> Mailman does some of this.  You can read the ~mailman/logs/bounce log file
> and see some of the mails that are bouncing (and why).  Mailman handles
> these bounces automatically for you (based on the values that put in config
> for the list) - removing the bad addresses from Mailman's database.

Thats perfect.

> Other bounces (that come back in a non-standard format that Mailman can't
> interpret), will be posted to the admin for handling (assuming you have the
> list set so that only members or admin's can post).  These messages are
> stored in ~mailman/data/..

How do you define "other bounces"? Would a normal e-mail sent to the
address go into this category?

In that case, it doesn't work exactly like I want it to - normal e-mails
sent to the address should not be changed, they should just be "bounced"
to a defined address so he/she can take care of replying to the e-mail.

Thanks.

- Morten.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[Jon Carnes]

>
> > Other bounces (that come back in a non-standard format that Mailman
can't
> > interpret), will be posted to the admin for handling (assuming you have
the
> > list set so that only members or admin's can post).  These messages are
> > stored in ~mailman/data/..
>
> How do you define "other bounces"? Would a normal e-mail sent to the
> address go into this category?
>
> In that case, it doesn't work exactly like I want it to - normal e-mails
> sent to the address should not be changed, they should just be "bounced"
> to a defined address so he/she can take care of replying to the e-mail.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Morten.

Some email systems send "bounces" from some weird addresses (as apposed to
Mailer-Daemon, or some such address).  As such, Mailman may not be able to
interpret that the email is a bounce.  Mailman may simply interpret the mail
as a reply.  There is a whole section in Mailman that is devoted to
identifying different types of bounces.  The current list includes bounces
from: Compuserve, Exim, Groupwise, Microsoft, Netscape, Postfix, SMTP,
Smail, Yahoo, etc...

But folks use a wild number of differing Mailservers (like Lotus Notes,
Connect2, etc...).  If they don't use a standard "bounce" format, and the
bounce format they use has not been added to ~mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/..
then the message that comes back is seen as a reply from a user that is not
on the list.

You will have to monitor the messages that come back into the list.  It's
really not too hard.  If a non-list user replies to every single message
that goes out in a day (assuming a high volume list), that user is probably
a bounce.  The hard part can be tracing down the actual email address on
your list that is causing the bounce

Hope this help - Jon Carnes


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[J C Lawrence]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:18:36 -0500 
Jon Carnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Some email systems send "bounces" from some weird addresses (as
> apposed to Mailer-Daemon, or some such address).  

A bounce is sole identified by having a null return address in the
envelope, and by nothing else.  None of the headers on a message are
significant in determining if a given message is a bounce, Not From:
not To:, none of them.

> As such, Mailman may not be able to interpret that the email is a
> bounce.  

The problem is that Mailman attempts the parse the body of a bounce
to determine subscriber address.  As the message body format is not
standardised this is an error prone process (which also explains the
attraction of VERP).

> Mailman may simply interpret the mail as a reply.  

Not if it has a null return-to envelope.  Guaranteed.

> There is a whole section in Mailman that is devoted to identifying
> different types of bounces.  The current list includes bounces
> from: Compuserve, Exim, Groupwise, Microsoft, Netscape, Postfix,
> SMTP, Smail, Yahoo, etc...

Right.  That's the message body parsing stuff, not the bounce
determination code.

> But folks use a wild number of differing Mailservers (like Lotus
> Notes, Connect2, etc...).  If they don't use a standard "bounce"
> format, and the bounce format they use has not been added to
> ~mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/..  then the message that comes back is
> seen as a reply from a user that is not on the list.

Nope, not unless the MTA in question grossly violates the RFCs and
uses a non-null return address.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[Barry A. Warsaw]

> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

JCL> The problem is that Mailman attempts the parse the body of a
JCL> bounce to determine subscriber address.  As the message body
JCL> format is not standardised this is an error prone process
JCL> (which also explains the attraction of VERP).

Actually, the bounce format /is/ standardized in RFC 1894,
i.e. Delivery Status Notifications (DSN), and of course Mailman groks
DSN.  It's just that many MTA authors hate this RFC for being overly
complex (can't completely blame them), and decide to roll their own
instead.  VERP works because of RFC 2821 which they can't ignore!

A special place in hell is reserved for the authors of MSExchange who
not only decided to roll their own, but also made the brilliant
decision to include absolutely nothing in the bounce message which
even hints at the remotest morsel of a clue as to the intended
recipient.  VERP to the rescue!

-Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[J C Lawrence]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:22:19 -0500 
Barry A Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> The problem is that Mailman attempts the parse the body of a
>> bounce to determine subscriber address.  As the message body
>> format is not standardised this is an error prone process (which
>> also explains the attraction of VERP).

> Actually, the bounce format /is/ standardized in RFC 1894,
> i.e. Delivery Status Notifications (DSN), and of course Mailman
> groks DSN.  

I knew I should have added an "in practice" there, but by the time I
thought of that I got distracted by a phone call, hit send, and,
well...

> A special place in hell is reserved for the authors of MSExchange
> who not only decided to roll their own, but also made the
> brilliant decision to include absolutely nothing in the bounce
> message which even hints at the remotest morsel of a clue as to
> the intended recipient.  

Aye, so I've been noticing.



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http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[Barry A. Warsaw]

> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

JCL> I knew I should have added an "in practice" there, but by the
JCL> time I thought of that I got distracted by a phone call, hit
JCL> send, and, well...

Yeah, I knew you knew, JC. :)

JCL>  auto-bounce all Exchange connections upon receipt>

Not a bad idea at all.

-Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[alex wetmore]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> A special place in hell is reserved for the authors of MSExchange who
> not only decided to roll their own, but also made the brilliant
> decision to include absolutely nothing in the bounce message which
> even hints at the remotest morsel of a clue as to the intended
> recipient.  VERP to the rescue!

Huh?  Microsoft Exchange 2000 (you didn't specify a version, assuming
you are talking about the latest version) sends RFC 1894 complaint
NDRs.

alex


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[Barry A. Warsaw]

> "aw" == alex wetmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

aw> Huh?  Microsoft Exchange 2000 (you didn't specify a version,
aw> assuming you are talking about the latest version) sends RFC
aw> 1894 complaint NDRs.

Dunno, but I'll have to look more closely when [EMAIL PROTECTED] gets
an urecognizable bounce from an Exchange server. :)

-Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman to take care of mailer-demons

[Nigel Metheringham]

On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 23:22, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> A special place in hell is reserved for the authors of MSExchange who
> not only decided to roll their own, but also made the brilliant
> decision to include absolutely nothing in the bounce message which
> even hints at the remotest morsel of a clue as to the intended
> recipient.  VERP to the rescue!

They can have a cubicle next to that I've had reserved for the authors
of Lotus notes (1995ish vintage) which should *never* have been allowed
to send mail within 100 miles of an internet connected machine.

Nigel.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman in a corporate environment withExchange 5.5...

[Bill Hilburn]

Create a custom recipient named "list" (your list name) and forward it to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (again @listbox.corporate.net).

Example:

I want a list called "[EMAIL PROTECTED]".

Create a custom recipient on the exchange box named "NOC" and forward the mail 
to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> Okay, I got myself a problem I need some serious help with.
> 
> I run various mail servers that run RedHat Linux, and a variety of MTA's
> (Postfix, Sendmail namely) and some have Mailman on them.  They all work
> wonderfully.  However where I work we have an Exchange 5.5 server for our
> mail, and I've got a problem getting Mailman/Sendmail to work with it.
> 
> Every time I send an email to a test list (for example,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]), the Exchange server replies saying "Unknown
> User" or "Unknown Receipient".  Now I have no clue what is causing this,
> aside from the explaination I've been given:
> 
> Exchange Server 5.5 strips the "hostname' from the email address:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> The Listbox is running RedHat 8.0, Sendmail, and MailMan 2.0.13
> 
> The full error when I try to send from my corporate account is (I have
> blanked out our listserv's domain for security reasons):
> 
> Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
> 
>   Subject:test
>   Sent:   4/4/2003 2:23 PM
> 
> The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
> 
>   '[EMAIL PROTECTED]" on 4/4/2003 2:23 PM
> The recipient name is not recognized
>   The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a= ;p=city of st.
> jose;l=STJOSEPHMAIL0304042023210THHRM
> MSEXCH:IMS:City of St. Joseph:CITY:STJOSEPHMAIL 0 (000C05A6)
> Unknown Recipient
> 
> If anyone can help out, it'd be appreciated.  I've NEVER had these problems
> with Mailman in the past, and I'm of the opinion it's Exchange.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> ---
> Joe Brouhard, MCP, A+
> Computer Support Technician
> City of St Joseph
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.ci.st-joseph.mo.us
> 
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> 



Bill Hilburn
NOC Frontier Internet

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special demographiclists...

[Mark Sapiro]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>We're planning on moving off our our creaky old ListProc MLM and
>moving to something with a web interface and an active community.
>I'm seriously looking at mailman as future MLM for all our
>mailing lists (~600).
>
>I was hoping somebody could describe, in broad arm-waving terms,
>how Mailman could be used as a back-end for doing mailings to
>one-time use distribution lists.  Here's the scenario:
>
>The sender will identify the desired demographic, say "left
>handed liberal arts majors with blue eyes", by creating an SQL
>WHERE clause that selects those folks from our Student
>Information System.  (We use a commercial product called
>Banner that sits on an Oracle DB engine.)


SCT reaches far and wide :-)


>So what I'll have to work with are unique user IDs which I can
>then turn into a set names and e-mail addresses that exist
>within our various e-mail and alias systems.  And of course
>I'll be handed a message to be distributed and the e-mail
>address of the sender.  After this particular list is built
>and the message has been sent, that particular demographic may
>not ever be used again.
>
>Finally, there is the possibility that I would have the unique
>ID, name, and e-mail address for all possible users stored in
>an LDAP.  But the LDAP would contain no other selector
>information, such as eye color.  :-)   In other words the
>demographic selection process would always have to be made in
>Oracle.
>
>Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
>above situation with ListProc:
>
>I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
>announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
>script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
>and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
>exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
>command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
>sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
>posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
>flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
>accidental re-use.
>
>I see that Mailman has a mass subscription function, so I could
>do something similar using that facility.  But at this point I
>don't know enough about mailman to know if there would be a more
>proper mailman-ish solution to this problem.

Here's my $.02. Mailman allows a per list customization mechanism that
can be used to establish a custom MemberAdaptor module for one or more
lists. You could set up your one, standing, generic announcement list
to use an LDAP MemberAdaptor to access the LDAP you refer to above.
The other 599 lists would use Mailman's standard MemberAdaptor.

If you had in addition to email address and whatever else you wanted in
the LDAP, a single flag meaning 'mail this one', then you could make
your selection, flag those records in the LDAP, post to the list and
clear out the LDAP flags.

Both LDAP and MySQL MemberAdaptors exist. See

for LDAP and

for MySQL, although if you're interested in the MySQL MemberAdaptor,
see the threads:

Mysql MemberAdaptor 1.61 and Mailman 2.1.6
and
MysqlMemberships.py [was: Informal "MEP" process, anyone? [was: PHP
Wrappers?]]
which ultimately became just
MysqlMemberships.py

at

and


Note also that the LDAP MemberAdaptor referenced above is a "read only"
adaptor from Mailman's side, but this would appear to be fine as you
would be writing the LDAP outside of Mailman anyway. You would
probably have to modify the LDAP MemberAdaptor slightly so that the
flag I refer to above would have meaning 'delivery disabled' if not
set and 'delivery enabled' if set.

Or you could make your own custom MemberAdaptor that could read any
files or query any databases you want. It would only have to implement
a few methods - getMemberCPAddress(member), getRegularMemberKeys() and
getDeliveryStatus(member). getDeliveryStatus(member) could always
return ENABLED unless you wanted to use it as a flag. I think you also
need getMemberOption(...) although it could always return 0 since it
is only used to determine if a poster gets her/his own post.

You could possibly get it to read the SQL selection clause and query
the Oracle database to get the data to build the results.
getRegularMemberKeys() could return a list of ID numbers from the
query, and getMemberCPAddress(member) would return an email address
for an ID number.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense

Re: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special demographic lists...

[Brad Knowles]

At 12:48 PM -0500 2005-12-21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
>  above situation with ListProc:
>
>  I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
>  announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
>  script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
>  and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
>  exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
>  command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
>  sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
>  posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
>  flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
>  accidental re-use.

You could essentially do the same for Mailman, but keep in mind 
that it is written in Python, not Perl.  So, if you want to do all 
your interfacing into mailman in Perl, you're going to have to be 
calling a lot of Python-language programs via the shell interface.

As I see it, this subject kind of relates back to FAQ 3.18, in 
that you're trying to do something that MLMs were not really designed 
to do, and you should at least take a serious look at using a real 
CRM program instead of trying to kit-bash something together that 
kinda-semi-sorta works, most of the time -- IMO you'll spend more 
time (and therefore money) trying to maintain the jury-rigged 
kit-bash system than money you would spend on getting a real CRM.


I think Mark has probably given you a couple of other ideas, if 
you're bound and determined to keep trying to force this square peg 
into a round hole.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume Subscription Mailings... and High Availability

[Brad Knowles]

At 1:09 PM -0500 2005-03-14, Forrest Aldrich wrote:
 I wonder what resources (and perhaps fine-tuning) would be required to
 get Mailman to accomodate these sorts of large tasks.
See 
.
Also search for "performance" within the FAQ Wizard.
 Earlier, I posted a question about High Availability and received only
 one response (thank you, though).  There has to be a way to scale Mailman
 into a large infrastructure (?).   Given that Mailman is, in of itself,
 an API, there must be some way to hook into the MTA (Postfix, in our case).
	In terms of doing high-availability, I think most people have 
been splitting the front-end web service from the back-end list 
processing, as well as splitting the MTA services onto separate 
machines.

	If you need the back-end Mailman-only stuff to also be highly 
available, you should be able to mostly do that with NFS, but this 
may run into some problems, and will certainly cost you in terms of 
performance.

 I'd appreciate information from someone who has implemented something
 this significant.
	Most of the information about large-scale mailing lists is 
already found in the FAQ entry mentioned above, or in the archives. 
There's a lot less information in the FAQ Wizard or in the archives 
with regards to high-availability configurations.

	I don't think anyone anywhere has publicly talked about doing 
both high-volume and high-availability, at least not with Mailman.

 The outsourced company we used in the past had sophisticated queue
 monitoring tools (php-based) as well as queue management (Postfix
 used as the MTA).
	Postfix can be a really good MTA for mailing lists, at least for 
handling outbound e-mail.

	If you get into lots of message scanning and having to pass 
through multiple scanning systems (e.g., multiple anti-spam and 
anti-virus scanning systems), then I think sendmail would scale 
better (due to the milter interface), but sendmail would also take 
more work to configure, and more care and feeding to keep going once 
it's configured.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume Subscription Mailings... and High Availability

[Forrest Aldrich]

Brad Knowles wrote:
[ ... ]

In terms of doing high-availability, I think most people have been 
splitting the front-end web service from the back-end list processing, 
as well as splitting the MTA services onto separate machines.

If you need the back-end Mailman-only stuff to also be highly 
available, you should be able to mostly do that with NFS, but this may 
run into some problems, and will certainly cost you in terms of 
performance.
[ ... ]

I don't think anyone anywhere has publicly talked about doing both 
high-volume and high-availability, at least not with Mailman.

I gather this, from all the searching I've done.I've not really 
found any useful information about scaling and 
high-availabilty/redundancy in the FAQ or anywhere else.

The HA solution will very likely be solved with a stable 
database/backend hook where we can store/retrieve Mailman's information 
-- standard scalablity on that side will be relatively straightforward.

I've not looked into the MyslqMembership hack yet.   Has anyone used this?
Thanks,
Forrest
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume Subscription Mailings... and High Availability

[Philippe Landau]

Forrest Aldrich wrote:
I don't think anyone anywhere has publicly talked about doing both 
high-volume and high-availability, at least not with Mailman.
pair.com has investigated this and put considerable
resources into these questions.
their newsgroups are semipublic,
but i am sure if you ask Kevin Martin
he can point you in the right direction.
excellent people there.
kind regards philippe
--
I gather this, from all the searching I've done.I've not really 
found any useful information about scaling and 
high-availabilty/redundancy in the FAQ or anywhere else.

The HA solution will very likely be solved with a stable 
database/backend hook where we can store/retrieve Mailman's information 
-- standard scalablity on that side will be relatively straightforward.

I've not looked into the MyslqMembership hack yet.   Has anyone used this?
Thanks,
Forrest
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume Subscription Mailings... and High Availability

[Brad Knowles]

At 12:05 AM -0500 2005-03-15, Forrest Aldrich wrote:
 I gather this, from all the searching I've done.I've not really found
 any useful information about scaling and high-availabilty/redundancy in
 the FAQ or anywhere else.
	There is some scalability information in the FAQ.  Go to the FAQ 
Wizard and search for "performance".  If you want more details, 
you'll need to go to the archives of the mailing list where people 
talked about things that have been summarized in the FAQ.

	There's also been some information that's been shared privately 
-- if you find the people that have talked publicly about how they 
have gone about handling scalability or HA issues, they may be 
willing/able to share additional details with you that they have not 
made public.

 The HA solution will very likely be solved with a stable database/backend
 hook where we can store/retrieve Mailman's information -- standard
 scalablity on that side will be relatively straightforward.
There is a MySQL MemberAdapter.
 I've not looked into the MyslqMembership hack yet.   Has anyone used this?
	I know they have, because it wouldn't exist otherwise.  However, 
I'll let the appropriate speak up for themselves.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with httpd listening toports other than the default of 80?

[Richard Barrett]

At 08:15 31/05/2003, Dean Hayes wrote:
Port 80 is blocked by the cable company.  I've been successful in
running the apache server on port 2080 to serve up web pages.
Is there any way to configure Mailman to build it's internal URLs
to append :2080 at the end of the domain name?  I tried running
configure with the switch --with-urlhost=mydomain:2080 which almost
works.
For MM 2.1.x redefine the following URL prototypes from 
$prefix/Mailman/Defaults.py in $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py to include the 
port number in the pattern:

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL

You will also need to run the $prefix/bin/withlist script fix_url.py to 
propagate the change to existing mailing lists.

When I try to create a list from the web site, the URLs in the
pages don't have the port number included which causes an error.
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman on a server other than the one that DNS is pointing to

[Adam McGreggor]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 07:16:26PM -0400, Adam Parker, OD wrote:
> I have a website abc123.com and it's hosted on Host A.  Host A does not
> allow Mailman on cpanel.  Host B does.  I set up a list called "
> b...@abc123.com" on Host B while also setting up abc123.com as an addon
> domain.  Is there any way to make this work?  

Firstly, where you're using "abc123.com", I presume you don't actually
mean "abc123.com"[1].

Secondly, I know *nothing* about what cPanel offers, let alone how
they've re-modified Mailman -- apart from what I've read in previous
posts (and there are a few).

Using a different name on "Host B" (differing to "Host A") 
might alllow, for say,  something like

(a) ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse /mailman/ (and /pipermail) to hostb

(b) forward the mails for the mailman parts (e.g,
  

-> 
  
)
 
to hostb

in your scenario.

It would almost certainly be easier/less hassle, to use a separate
name for hostb (e.g., make hostb "lists.example.org", and then just
use normal look-ups to point your lists (mail and web) to hostb),
with all the Mailman stuff taking place on hostb

[1] that is to say:
Domain Name: ABC123.COM
Registrar: TIERRANET INC. D/B/A DOMAINDISCOVER
Whois Server: whois.domaindiscover.com
Referral URL: http://www.domaindiscover.com
Name Server: NS1.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM
Name Server: NS2.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 19-aug-2009
Creation Date: 19-aug-1995
Expiration Date: 18-aug-2010

>>> Last update of whois database: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:25:35 UTC <<<

-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman on a server other than the one that DNS is pointing to

[Adam Parker, OD]

no, i'm not actually using that domain.  Cpanel allows you to easily set up
a list - it just asks you for the name of the list and a password and does
the rest for you.  The problem is that the server the Mailman/List resides
on is not the server that houses the email server.  So i'm looking for a way
for the 2nd server to be able to monitor the emails from the email server.
I went into the panel and there's a place to alter the MX record - one
option is for "Remote Mail Exchanger" which I thought would work, but it
doesn't.  I'm not sure this is possible, but was hoping there'd be a way to
use Mailman when the emails are not on same server.
-Adam

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Adam McGreggor
wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 07:16:26PM -0400, Adam Parker, OD wrote:
> > I have a website abc123.com and it's hosted on Host A.  Host A does not
> > allow Mailman on cpanel.  Host B does.  I set up a list called "
> > b...@abc123.com" on Host B while also setting up abc123.com as an addon
> > domain.  Is there any way to make this work?
>
> Firstly, where you're using "abc123.com", I presume you don't actually
> mean "abc123.com"[1].
>
> Secondly, I know *nothing* about what cPanel offers, let alone how
> they've re-modified Mailman -- apart from what I've read in previous
> posts (and there are a few).
>
> Using a different name on "Host B" (differing to "Host A")
> might alllow, for say,  something like
>
>(a) ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse /mailman/ (and /pipermail) to hostb
>
>(b) forward the mails for the mailman parts (e.g,
>
>   unsubscri...@example.com >
>->
>
>   unsubscri...@hostb.example.com >)
>to hostb
>
> in your scenario.
>
> It would almost certainly be easier/less hassle, to use a separate
> name for hostb (e.g., make hostb "lists.example.org", and then just
> use normal look-ups to point your lists (mail and web) to hostb),
> with all the Mailman stuff taking place on hostb
>
> [1] that is to say:
>Domain Name: ABC123.COM
>Registrar: TIERRANET INC. D/B/A DOMAINDISCOVER
>Whois Server: whois.domaindiscover.com
>Referral URL: http://www.domaindiscover.com
>Name Server: NS1.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM
>Name Server: NS2.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM
>Status: clientTransferProhibited
>Updated Date: 19-aug-2009
>Creation Date: 19-aug-1995
>Expiration Date: 18-aug-2010
>
>>>> Last update of whois database: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:25:35 UTC <<<
>
> --
> ``Whether intentionally or not, fish control and potato control were
> billeted
>  together in St. John's College, Oxford, making this ancient seat of higher
>  learning the biggest fish and chip shop the world has ever seen.''
>  (Peter Hennessey, on the organisation of wartime rationing)
>



-- 
Adam P. Parker, OD, FVAO
Drs. Robinson & Parker
President, Richmond Optometric Society
(804) 595-2020
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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman on a server other than the one that DNS is pointing to

[Andrew Hodgson]

Adam Parker, OD wrote:

>no, i'm not actually using that domain.  Cpanel allows you to easily set up a 
>list - it just asks you for the name of the list and a password and does >the 
>rest for you.  The problem is that the server the Mailman/List resides on is 
>not the server that houses the email server.  So i'm looking for a >way for 
>the 2nd server to be able to monitor the emails from the email server.
>I went into the panel and there's a place to alter the MX record - one option 
>is for "Remote Mail Exchanger" which I thought would work, but it >doesn't.  
>I'm not sure this is possible, but was hoping there'd be a way to use Mailman 
>when the emails are not on same server.

Firstly, this list is not really set up to support users using the CPanel 
version of Mailman, which is altered to work with the CPanel setup.  We can 
only usually advise on a version of Mailman built from source, or that you can 
run the standard binaries on without breaking a CPanel list.

Having said that...

I understand you have two hosts - one running CPanel and Mailman, and one not.  
You have moved your site over to the new host, but want to continue with the 
old host for the Mailman hosting.  There are two options as I see it:

1.  Use the old Host to host the mail system for your domain.  This essentially 
means pointing the MX records at your old host, then letting them handle mail 
forwarding, Mailman hosting, and mail hosting.  The new host wouldn't concern 
itself about mail.

2.  Move the list to a subdomain inside your domain, i.e., lists.example.com.  
The MX records for your domain would point at the new mail server, but the MX 
records for the subdomain would point at the Mailman host.

Thanks.
Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman on a server other than the one that DNS is pointing to

[Grant Taylor]

Adam Parker, OD wrote:
Can you use mailman on a server other than the one where the DNS is 
pointing to?


Technically there is nothing requiring Mailman to be running on your 
mail server.


In theory, there is no reason why each address for the mailing list(s) 
can't be a pop3 mail box that is polled for messages to feed in to 
Mailman.  Though this type of set up is out side of the scope of 
Mailman.  (It would be more in the scope of downloading messages from a 
mail box and piping them in to standard in of a program.)


I have a website abc123.com and it's hosted on Host A.  Host A does 
not allow Mailman on cpanel.  Host B does.  I set up a list called 
"b...@abc123.com" on Host B while also setting up abc123.com as an 
addon domain.  Is there any way to make this work?  It doesn't seem 
to work now even though I have "Remote Mail Exchanger" chosen for the 
MX value.


Purely from an email administration / routing point of view, you 
normally don't want the same domain to be handled by multiple servers. 
(I say normally because there are some special configurations where this 
is explicitly made to work.)


What you will end up with is each server will only work with (handle 
email for) it's incomplete list addresses.  I.e. host A will not about 
accounts 1 and 2 but not accounts 3 or 4.  Similarly host B will know 
about accounts 3 and 4 but not accounts 1 or 2.


What would probably be better, as Adam McGreggor suggested, is to have 
email for the abc123.com domain to one server and have email to the 
mailing list addresses be forwarded to accounts in a different 
(sub)domain on the other server.  I.e. b...@abc123.com would be forwarded 
to b...@lists.abc123.com.




Grant. . . .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman on a server other than the one that DNS is pointing to

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Adam Parker, OD writes:

 > no, i'm not actually using that domain.  Cpanel allows you to easily set up
 > a list - it just asks you for the name of the list and a password and does
 > the rest for you.

Actually, cPanel itself doesn't do anything except allow the hosting
staff to avoid interacting with clients on client-specific stuff.
It's the staff of the cPanel host that does the host configuration
work you don't want to do (quite reasonably; or perhaps you aren't
allowed to do it on those hosts).

I gather from the suffix to your name that you are a professional.
Well, web hosting (including mail) is a profession, too, but the
ethical side of professionalism is often slighted in favor of low-cost
high-volume operation, of which a very common symptom is ... you
guessed it ... cPanel.  Pros can use cPanel, too, of course, but if
your cPanel host were run by pros, they would be telling you how to
get this job done.

My recommendation is that you talk to a reputable professional about
getting your needs met with minimum work on your part.  They'll help
you figure out what your needs really are, among other things.  There
are a couple listed on the Mailman wiki, I think.  Most likely the
kind of service you want is only marginally more expensive (and
possibly as little as $4/month) than what you've got.  Even if it
turns out to be more than you want to pay, you'll have a better idea
of the possibilities (and your own needs) when you're done.

http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services
http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+consulting+services

"Consulting" seems to be oriented toward extensive customizations,
probably not what you need.  Of the "hosting" services, EMWD staff are
known to contribute on this list, FWIW.  If you contact a service, you
might want to check the archives (use Google's site:mail.python.org
option) to see if the people you talk to hang out here in a visible
way, and whether they talk sense at your level.  Many probably lurk
without saying anything, though.  ("They also serve who stand and
wait.")

 > I went into the panel and there's a place to alter the MX record -
 > one option is for "Remote Mail Exchanger" which I thought would
 > work, but it doesn't.

It can't work, because the configuration that needs to change is on
the email server, not on the cPanel host.  Unlike your personal mail
client which works by "pulling" mail from a specific host, the mail
system itself works by "pushing" mail from one host to the next (along
a route it looks up in the domain name directory service) until it
reaches the destination.  If you don't know that much about the mail
system yet, it will be a big investment to get the knowledge and
skills needed to make this work ... and you very well may not be
permitted to do the necessary configuration yourself by your hosting
service(s).

If you do want to do this yourself anyway, I recommend the solution
that several others have already offered: set up a lists.YourDomain
subdomain in the DNS, whose A and MX records point to the cPanel host.
No muss, no fuss once it's done, but if the email and cPanel hosts are
run by separate companies, getting the DNS configuration done could be
modestly annoying depending on how much freedom the email host gives
you to delegate subdomains.
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