Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Odhiambo Washington writes:

 > Okay, so Exim and Postfix act the same in their default configs
 > unless one changes it. Mark (Dale), does your Postfix act the same
 > way? I think it doesn't and maybe it's something you need to take a
 > second look at??

Mark Dale's posts demonstrate knows his business well, so I guess
that's not a problem unless you have direct evidence otherwise.

You may as well calm down.  Your target subscriber population uses
ISPs-that-suck and MUAs-that-suck and generally technology-that-sucks.
Just plan on that basis.

Those are facts, and you (f.v.o. "you" = "all of us", including your
provider) can't do jack about those facts, except prepare workarounds
for them.  Stay close to your provider, keep him happy, and feel free
to post questions here in emergencies.

Sometimes you get lucky.  For example, on the software development
lists I manage, almost all users use Emacs-based MUAs or mutt.  That's
as close to heaven as a list owner can get.  When it comes to DMARC
and my educational mailing lists, my employer's regulator (the
Japanese Ministry of Education Et Cetera) forbids use of Yahoo!
mailboxes, so I can too.  Paradise!  When you run into such luck in
your job or business, exploit it!

But that's just pure luck I did nothing to deserve and don't know how
to regenerate.  It's not reality for most list owners, and almost
certainly I won't be so lucky in my future projects, either.

Steve

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Dale writes:

 > Verizon began accepting mail again for lists on the European server 
 > about 6 hours ago.

Yay!  And thank you for that followup.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/23/2016 11:24 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> Okay, so Exim and Postfix act the same in their default configs unless one
> changes it. Mark (Dale), does your Postfix act the same way? I think it
> doesn't and maybe it's something you need to take a second look at??


Why do you think this? Other than one other poster's conjecture that
greylisting might be involved (I don't think so, but ...), I see nothing
in this thread to indicate that Postfix is not treating 4xx status as
retryable.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Odhiambo Washington]

Okay, so Exim and Postfix act the same in their default configs unless one
changes it. Mark (Dale), does your Postfix act the same way? I think it
doesn't and maybe it's something you need to take a second look at??


On 23 December 2016 at 22:17, Richard Shetron  wrote:

> Postfix is the same.  I had to install a greylisting package to add
> greylisting to postfix.
>
> On 12/23/2016 9:50 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>
>>
>> On 23 December 2016 at 17:36, Richard Shetron > > wrote:
>>
>> Maybe they were using some type of grey listing.
>>
>> For those who don't know:
>> Grey listing is where the target MTA rejects with a retry error code
>> the email from a new source for some period of time.  Every site can
>> set their own delay.  Most spammers won't retry so it gets rid of a
>> lot of spam.  Real email servers will accept the retry error (4xx)
>> and retry after some prefigured time from a few seconds to an hour
>> or more.  The IP addresses are tracked and if retried after the time
>> limit are white listed for anywhere from a few hours to a month or
>> more.
>>
>>
>> I know Exim will only treat a session as a failure if it gets 5xx. Does
>> Postfix do the same?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
>> Nairobi,KE
>> +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
>> "Oh, the cruft."
>>
>


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Odhiambo Washington]

That's what Exim does, unless the sysadmin changes things!

On 23 December 2016 at 20:21, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 12/23/2016 06:50 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >
> > I know Exim will only treat a session as a failure if it gets 5xx. Does
> > Postfix do the same?
>
>
> Yes, mostly. Postfix treats any 4xx as retryable and retries at
> configured intervals until the message is delivered or
> maximal_queue_lifetime (default 5 days) expires. After
> maximal_queue_lifetime the message is considered undeliverable (failure).
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> odhiambo%40gmail.com
>



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Richard Shetron]

Postfix is the same.  I had to install a greylisting package to add 
greylisting to postfix.


On 12/23/2016 9:50 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:


On 23 December 2016 at 17:36, Richard Shetron > wrote:

Maybe they were using some type of grey listing.

For those who don't know:
Grey listing is where the target MTA rejects with a retry error code
the email from a new source for some period of time.  Every site can
set their own delay.  Most spammers won't retry so it gets rid of a
lot of spam.  Real email servers will accept the retry error (4xx)
and retry after some prefigured time from a few seconds to an hour
or more.  The IP addresses are tracked and if retried after the time
limit are white listed for anywhere from a few hours to a month or more.


I know Exim will only treat a session as a failure if it gets 5xx. Does
Postfix do the same?


--
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Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/23/2016 06:50 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> 
> I know Exim will only treat a session as a failure if it gets 5xx. Does
> Postfix do the same?


Yes, mostly. Postfix treats any 4xx as retryable and retries at
configured intervals until the message is delivered or
maximal_queue_lifetime (default 5 days) expires. After
maximal_queue_lifetime the message is considered undeliverable (failure).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Odhiambo Washington]

On 23 December 2016 at 17:36, Richard Shetron  wrote:

> Maybe they were using some type of grey listing.
>
> For those who don't know:
> Grey listing is where the target MTA rejects with a retry error code the
> email from a new source for some period of time.  Every site can set their
> own delay.  Most spammers won't retry so it gets rid of a lot of spam.
> Real email servers will accept the retry error (4xx) and retry after some
> prefigured time from a few seconds to an hour or more.  The IP addresses
> are tracked and if retried after the time limit are white listed for
> anywhere from a few hours to a month or more.
>

I know Exim will only treat a session as a failure if it gets 5xx. Does
Postfix do the same?


-- 
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Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Richard Shetron]

Maybe they were using some type of grey listing.

For those who don't know:
Grey listing is where the target MTA rejects with a retry error code the 
email from a new source for some period of time.  Every site can set 
their own delay.  Most spammers won't retry so it gets rid of a lot of 
spam.  Real email servers will accept the retry error (4xx) and retry 
after some prefigured time from a few seconds to an hour or more.  The 
IP addresses are tracked and if retried after the time limit are white 
listed for anywhere from a few hours to a month or more.


On 12/23/2016 1:40 AM, Mark Dale wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion on the mailop list Jim.

Verizon began accepting mail again for lists on the European server
about 6 hours ago.

No light was shed as to why or what changed their view. Not only Verizon
but AT as well, at around the same time - a little puzzle that's
probably best left alone.

It may be that their default position is to block all list mail
regardless - until they get swamped with complaints.

I've subscribed to the mailop list as you suggest, and if I learn
anything relevant to this issue I'll post it back here.

Thanks,
Mark




 MailmanLists - hosted discussion lists
 Canberra, Australia
 Tel: +61 .2 61003121
 http://www.mailmanlists.net
===

On 22/12/16 16:15, Jim Popovitch wrote:

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Mark Dale 
wrote:

...

All the DNS records (inc SPF, DKIM) are in place, the server is on no
RBLs,
con-current connections to the recieving mail servers is set at 2 in
Postfix. In short, all the right boxes are ticked as far as we can see.

Point noted about the time needed to build a good IP reputation. In
light of
that, we moved the list to our old established server in Europe. It
has a
SenderScore of 99, and of course all the same boxes are ticked. Verizon
still rejected list mail.

...




A good place to start is on the mailop list, explain your company and
sign-up practices/filtering, etc.  Be open and ask for specific reps
to contact you offline if necessary.  You may get some awesome help,
although this close to the holidays your message may not hit the right
people until next year.

https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Mark Dale]

Thanks for the suggestion on the mailop list Jim.

Verizon began accepting mail again for lists on the European server 
about 6 hours ago.


No light was shed as to why or what changed their view. Not only Verizon 
but AT as well, at around the same time - a little puzzle that's 
probably best left alone.


It may be that their default position is to block all list mail 
regardless - until they get swamped with complaints.


I've subscribed to the mailop list as you suggest, and if I learn 
anything relevant to this issue I'll post it back here.


Thanks,
Mark




 MailmanLists - hosted discussion lists
 Canberra, Australia
 Tel: +61 .2 61003121
 http://www.mailmanlists.net
===

On 22/12/16 16:15, Jim Popovitch wrote:

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Mark Dale  wrote:

...

All the DNS records (inc SPF, DKIM) are in place, the server is on no RBLs,
con-current connections to the recieving mail servers is set at 2 in
Postfix. In short, all the right boxes are ticked as far as we can see.

Point noted about the time needed to build a good IP reputation. In light of
that, we moved the list to our old established server in Europe. It has a
SenderScore of 99, and of course all the same boxes are ticked. Verizon
still rejected list mail.

...




A good place to start is on the mailop list, explain your company and
sign-up practices/filtering, etc.  Be open and ask for specific reps
to contact you offline if necessary.  You may get some awesome help,
although this close to the holidays your message may not hit the right
people until next year.

https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Dale writes:

 > We haven't brushed Odhiambo off, but rather have worked with him on this 
 > problem trying to fix it. However,

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that you did, everything Odhiambo
wrote indicates that you have been very helpful, and I took that for
granted.  By support staff, I meant at Verizon, and I meant that the
large services (all of them, not just Verizon) often do brush off
issues presented by mailing lists, claiming that the mailing lists do
not conform to accepted practice (when it's the large services who
came in late and helped wreck the party :-( ).

Steve



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Jim Popovitch]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Mark Dale  wrote:
> Hi Odhiambo and Steve,
>
> I'm one of the co-owners of MailmanLists.net that is mentioned in this post.
>
> As Odhiambo said, we've recently moved one of the servers that hosted
> Odhiambo's list. This involved a change of IP address, and at the same time
> the problem with Verizon kicked into play.
>
> All the DNS records (inc SPF, DKIM) are in place, the server is on no RBLs,
> con-current connections to the recieving mail servers is set at 2 in
> Postfix. In short, all the right boxes are ticked as far as we can see.
>
> Point noted about the time needed to build a good IP reputation. In light of
> that, we moved the list to our old established server in Europe. It has a
> SenderScore of 99, and of course all the same boxes are ticked. Verizon
> still rejected list mail.
>
> As they have been somewhat resistant to address the issue in any real way, I
> do agree with Steven that they may listen to loud complaints from their own
> customers. However, that doesn't help Odhiambo right now.
>
> We haven't brushed Odhiambo off, but rather have worked with him on this
> problem trying to fix it. However, right now all our best intents are not
> helping - so any suggestions for a workaround on this would be truly
> appreciated.
>

A good place to start is on the mailop list, explain your company and
sign-up practices/filtering, etc.  Be open and ask for specific reps
to contact you offline if necessary.  You may get some awesome help,
although this close to the holidays your message may not hit the right
people until next year.

https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

-Jim P.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Mark Dale]

Hi Odhiambo and Steve,

I'm one of the co-owners of MailmanLists.net that is mentioned in this post.

As Odhiambo said, we've recently moved one of the servers that hosted 
Odhiambo's list. This involved a change of IP address, and at the same 
time the problem with Verizon kicked into play.


All the DNS records (inc SPF, DKIM) are in place, the server is on no 
RBLs, con-current connections to the recieving mail servers is set at 2 
in Postfix. In short, all the right boxes are ticked as far as we can see.


Point noted about the time needed to build a good IP reputation. In 
light of that, we moved the list to our old established server in 
Europe. It has a SenderScore of 99, and of course all the same boxes are 
ticked. Verizon still rejected list mail.


As they have been somewhat resistant to address the issue in any real 
way, I do agree with Steven that they may listen to loud complaints from 
their own customers. However, that doesn't help Odhiambo right now.


We haven't brushed Odhiambo off, but rather have worked with him on this 
problem trying to fix it. However, right now all our best intents are 
not helping - so any suggestions for a workaround on this would be truly 
appreciated.


His list has around 400 members, with 70 or so being Verizon customers.


Regards,
Mark


 MailmanLists - hosted discussion lists
 Canberra, Australia
 Tel: +61 .2 61003121
 http://www.mailmanlists.net
===

On 22/12/16 15:18, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Odhiambo Washington writes:

 > mails, but majority of the subscribers are with Verizon/ATT and that has
 > really affected one list that I have so I need to change.

Do you have a reason to think a change will help?  As you say, they're
notorious for blocking list emails.  I doubt their criteria are so
heavily weighted toward which hosting service you use as to make a big
difference here.  Rather (as others have suggested) probably any
change that involves significant flows of duplicate message-ids from a
new source will get blocked.  Other than that negative effect,
reputation is something that you build over time.  Trying to buy it in
an instant is not a good bet.

The first thing would be to check that your IPs aren't on any of the
RBLs.  Seems unlikely since you don't have problems with other
providers, but Verizon may have poor taste in RBLs (as they do in so
many other ways).  If you're on one, you'll be better off if you can
get off rather than moving.

Do you know and conform to their acceptable use policies?  Have you
talked to their support staff?  They're the only ones who know what
criteria they actually use to decide what to block.  I wouldn't be
surprised if they just brush you off, but that's the second thing you
should try.

Can you get your subscribers to complain?  That often has more effect
than complaints from a third party.

Steve

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 08:45:35PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> True. We then migrated the list to another of their servers that already
> existed, but the rejections
> became even more.

I'd still do a gradual ramp-up to N recipients with the 'standard' type of
messages/headers/patterns for each new sending pattern, nowadays, rather than
just "these IPs have been used before…".


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Odhiambo Washington]

On 21 December 2016 at 20:09, Adam McGreggor 
wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:11:16PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > one of their co-lo facilities in the US closed down and they had to move
> to
> > another co-lo. This obviously involved migration of servers/ change of IP
> > addresses and this has not gone well for one of my mailing lists which
> has
>
> An influx of mail from a new host, rather than a increase over time
> probably
> didn't/doesn't help either.
>

True. We then migrated the list to another of their servers that already
existed, but the rejections
became even more.


>
> (I've not seen any feature in Mailman that does
> limiting based on destination, and wouldn't expect that to be a feature of
> Mailman 2; I might even advocate it should not be a feature in MM3,
> either.)
>
>
In Exim (MTA) we have a way of doing that. Postfix probably has too. But
hey, I digressed just a little.


-- 
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Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[ddewey]

Quoting Adam McGreggor (adam-mail...@amyl.org.uk):

> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:11:16PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > one of their co-lo facilities in the US closed down and they had to move to
> > another co-lo. This obviously involved migration of servers/ change of IP
> > addresses and this has not gone well for one of my mailing lists which has
> 
> An influx of mail from a new host, rather than a increase over time probably
> didn't/doesn't help either.
> 
> (I've not seen any feature in Mailman that does
> limiting based on destination, and wouldn't expect that to be a feature of
> Mailman 2; I might even advocate it should not be a feature in MM3, either.)

You can do this in the MTA, postfix for example. Doesn't need to be in
mailman. I have ridculously low rate limits for a couple of providers
(hello Time-Warner).
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Adam McGreggor]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:11:16PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> one of their co-lo facilities in the US closed down and they had to move to
> another co-lo. This obviously involved migration of servers/ change of IP
> addresses and this has not gone well for one of my mailing lists which has

An influx of mail from a new host, rather than a increase over time probably
didn't/doesn't help either.

(I've not seen any feature in Mailman that does
limiting based on destination, and wouldn't expect that to be a feature of
Mailman 2; I might even advocate it should not be a feature in MM3, either.)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Odhiambo Washington]

Just for the record, I have been hosting with mailmanlists.net for the last
three or so years and I am very happy with them. The only problem is that
one of their co-lo facilities in the US closed down and they had to move to
another co-lo. This obviously involved migration of servers/ change of IP
addresses and this has not gone well for one of my mailing lists which has
so many subscribers on Verizon/ATT. It's the only reason I am looking for a
well-known hosting provider which has an already "good reputation" - that
Verizon/ATT accepts lists mail from their servers...

On 21 December 2016 at 18:56, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org> wrote:

> Hi  to East Africa
>
> I do not have any information about their "reputation" with Verizon and
> AT, but our organization uses digimouse.eu for mail, mailing lists and
> web.
>
> You may want to mention my name when contacting them (no,  I do not get
> any compensation for my "advertising").
>
> Christian
>
>
> --
> Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
> Hilfe für Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org
>
>
> > Odhiambo Washington 
> > 21. Dezember 2016 um 16:46
> > Hi,
> >
> > Does anyone know of a provider who hosts Mailman and who has a good
> > reputation with American ISPs - Verizon and ATT, etc? These providers
> > somehow have notoriety blocking mailing list emails. I'm currently
> hosting
> > with a provider based in Oz, but having some difficulties when it comes
> to
> > Verizon and ATT. AOL, Gmail, Hotmail, Outlook, Yahoo etc are all
> accepting
> > mails, but majority of the subscribers are with Verizon/ATT and that has
> > really affected one list that I have so I need to change.
> >
> >
> > Please recommend one.
> >
>
> --
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> bo%40gmail.com
>



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Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft."
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Hosting

[Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users]

Hi  to East Africa

I do not have any information about their "reputation" with Verizon and
AT, but our organization uses digimouse.eu for mail, mailing lists and
web.

You may want to mention my name when contacting them (no,  I do not get
any compensation for my "advertising").

Christian

 
-- 
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)  
Hilfe für Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org


> Odhiambo Washington 
> 21. Dezember 2016 um 16:46
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know of a provider who hosts Mailman and who has a good
> reputation with American ISPs - Verizon and ATT, etc? These providers
> somehow have notoriety blocking mailing list emails. I'm currently hosting
> with a provider based in Oz, but having some difficulties when it comes to
> Verizon and ATT. AOL, Gmail, Hotmail, Outlook, Yahoo etc are all accepting
> mails, but majority of the subscribers are with Verizon/ATT and that has
> really affected one list that I have so I need to change.
>
>
> Please recommend one.
>

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosting needed

[Brian Carpenter]

 Hi Everyone,
 
 I've been running my own server hosting (amongst other things) mailman for
 the last 10+ years using a combination of either my own server, or more
 recently VPS.
 
 However, I've got to the point in my life where it is too much work to
maintain
 the servers myself, so am now offloading all the services on to hosted
services.
 
 I have successfully moved everything off with the exception of some
mailman
 services that I run for my church.
 
 I have three lists one of which is used significantly more than the other
two, but
 collectively they have no more than 700 messages per year sent on them /
250
 subscribers.
 
 Can anyone recommend a host that might be suitable for my needs?

Hi James:

The Mailman community keeps a list of Mailman friendly hosts located at:

http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services

My company is on that list and I would like to invite you to take a look at
our Mailman specific hosting service. You can get more information at
http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. 

Feel free to shoot me off any questions off-list if you have any. Have a
great weekend.

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

T: 336.755.0685
E: br...@emwd.com
www.emwd.com

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosting needed

[Ed Kasky]

I just did exactly what you are doing for the same reasons...

I moved everything over to Asmallorange and so far I have been very happy.

http://asmallorange.com/

On 1/27/2013 12:43 AM, James Reid wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I've been running my own server hosting (amongst other things) mailman 
for the last 10+ years using a combination of either my own server, or 
more recently VPS.


However, I've got to the point in my life where it is too much work to 
maintain the servers myself, so am now offloading all the services on 
to hosted services.


I have successfully moved everything off with the exception of some 
mailman services that I run for my church.


I have three lists one of which is used significantly more than the 
other two, but collectively they have no more than 700 messages per 
year sent on them / 250 subscribers.


Can anyone recommend a host that might be suitable for my needs?

Thanks!
James.
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Richard's Almanack, 1737

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosting needed

[William Bagwell]

On Sunday 27 January 2013, Ed Kasky wrote:
 I just did exactly what you are doing for the same reasons...

 I moved everything over to Asmallorange and so far I have been very happy.

Long time ASO customer... They have a strict 1,000 emails per hour limit so a 
discussion list with 250 members would exceed this with as few as five posts 
in one hour. (Assuming no digest members.) AFAICT all size plans have the 
same limit. However, it *is* possible to split a single list between two 
separate plans. 

But yes, if you are not a spamer, can stay within the 1,000 per hour limit, 
and are not offended by Mailman via cPanel, ASO is hard to beat on price.
-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosting needed

[Brian Carpenter]

Hi James:

I am not sure if you decided on a provider to move your lists to but I can
offer you $7 per month hosting for your 3 lists. We can also assist you in
moving your data to our mailman service  including your archives and list
configuration settings. We impose no sending limits on any of our mailman
clients and we have special servers setup that serve ONLY mailman users.
These servers are whitelisted with most ISPs to insure reliable delivery to
your list members.

http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html


Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

T: 336.755.0685
E: br...@emwd.com
www.emwd.com
 




 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
 bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of William Bagwell
 Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:59 PM
 To: mailman-users@python.org
 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosting needed
 
 On Sunday 27 January 2013, Ed Kasky wrote:
  I just did exactly what you are doing for the same reasons...
 
  I moved everything over to Asmallorange and so far I have been very
happy.
 
 Long time ASO customer... They have a strict 1,000 emails per hour limit
so a
 discussion list with 250 members would exceed this with as few as five
posts in
 one hour. (Assuming no digest members.) AFAICT all size plans have the
same
 limit. However, it *is* possible to split a single list between two
separate plans.
 
 But yes, if you are not a spamer, can stay within the 1,000 per hour
limit, and
 are not offended by Mailman via cPanel, ASO is hard to beat on price.
 --
 William
 --
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 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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 http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-
 archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
 users/brian%40emwd.com

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MAILMAN HOSTING pt 2

[texas critter - mailman-users]

Sean Carnahan wrote:

 The lists are one for 5,000 and another of around 19,000 people?

 My present hosting company only allows 1,000 email per hour.

For lists of these sizes, you're probably going to need to use a
professional list host.  If you google on email list host or similar
phrases, you'll find lots of them.  Some use Mailman, some use Lyris (which
is a much nicer program for handling large announcement lists).

Webhosting companies that include Mailman in their hosting plans mainly
intend for it to be used for smaller lists and their servers really aren't
set up to handle any serious volume, because they're mainly for webhosting,
not list hosting.

If you do go with a webhost that offers Mailman, I suggest looking for one
that has a semi-dedicated server plan, where they put a limited number of
customers on a server, usually 10-20 customers, you'll pay more but the
server will be better equipped to handle your volume.  Regular shared
virtual hosting servers can have literally hundreds of customers and the
servers get overloaded very easily.

Talk to webhosts, show them your list content, talk about your volume,
about how your list members joined (all confirmed opt-in?).  If you're
upfront with your needs and your list is clean, not spammy, it'll be easier
to find a good host for your lists.

hth,
texas critter

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman hosting requirements

[Jon Carnes]

If all the lists are similar to yours then that setup would work fine.

If the lists are going to be more like this one (with a lot of messages
per day) then you should go with at least a 600Mhz box, and go for the
512Mb RAM so that you can run some Spam filtering on the box as well.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Wed, 2003-03-05 at 08:36, John DeCarlo wrote:
 Hello,
 
 I know this is one of those questions where the real answer is it 
 depends.  However, I will ask it anyway, in case someone has done 
 something similar enough.
 
 I have been running two small lists with Mailman, several hundred users, 
   and average of 2 messages a day per list.  The impact has really been 
 minimal on my Linux machine.
 
 Now I have been asked to help with a proposal to set up a server 
 dedicated to running Mailman for 50-100 lists.  They would all probably 
 have an average of 2-300 users, probably at most 5 messages per day on 
 average.
 
 Should I propose a modern machine (Intel-based, 2+ GHz, 512+ MB RAM, 40+ 
   GB storage)?  Or if I suggested a used machine (3-400 MHz, upgrade RAM 
 to at least 256 MB, upgrade disk to 40+ GB) at a cost of around $400 or 
 less, would that be foolish?
 
 Thanks.
 
 -- 
 
 John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
 
 
 
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