Re: [MlMt] Too many bounces?
On 28 Jan 2019, at 3:35, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: [...] I'm now at the point where I would automatically become suspicious if anyone (any webpage) seems to claim to fully understand the consequences of any kind of setup/setting related to this :-) There are definitely some people (maybe dozens) with very deep understandings of DMARC and the consequences of all of its options, but they know better than to think there's a universal right way to deploy it trhat can be boiled down to a web page. I'm not one of those people but I know a few of them, and none are fond of general p=reject use, especially for domains used to provide mass-market retail/free mailboxes. Everyone who participated significantly in the DMARC definition process knew that all existing discussion group mailing lists operating across independent domains would be damaged by unwise use of p=reject. I'm pretty sure that some people see that as a feature, either because traditional mailing list behavior is inherently problematic and needs an incentive to change OR because they see an opportunity to advantage their own captive discussion groups. It's not accidental that the first significant mailbox provider to use p=reject was Yahoo. The only real fix for mailing lists is to munge From headers, at least for list members who have p=reject domains. Disabling bounce processing is an unsustainable option and banning users in p=reject domains is impractical. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Too many bounces?
On 28 Jan 2019, at 14:36, Alexandru Nedelcu wrote: > The issue seems to at least partly be caused by at least 1 user using the DMARC `reject` option. All users on email servers which respect this option (Gmail, iCloud, ...) are going to bounce emails from such a user. These bounces are going to add up on my server (there's a MailMan score system for this) and when it reaches a certain limit they are “unsubscribed” (they are actually only disabled at first). Speaking for myself, I am (was) such a user with a `reject` policy specified in DMARC. I would appreciate if you reconfigured the mailing list to be compliant with such a policy. It's on my list. “Compliant” is probably a strong word. It's probably going to be more like a “workaround”. The solution is likely to be what I believe is called From munging. Luckily, I control the email client used by most users of this list which means that this might also be an opportunity to improve MailMate behavior when faced with munged From headers :) In the meantime I have configured a subdomain with relaxed SPF/DMARC rules and resubscribed with an email address that shouldn't cause any more problems. Thanks! At least you'll know that all list members will get your emails now. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Prevent saving to Sent
Alexandru Nedelcu wrote (at 1:55 on 27 Jan 2019): Can I add rules somehow to MailMate to prevent the saving of Sent email based on some filter? Yes, just add a rule to your Sent mailbox. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Too many bounces?
The issue seems to at least partly be caused by at least 1 user using the DMARC `reject` option. All users on email servers which respect this option (Gmail, iCloud, ...) are going to bounce emails from such a user. These bounces are going to add up on my server (there's a MailMan score system for this) and when it reaches a certain limit they are “unsubscribed” (they are actually only disabled at first). Speaking for myself, I am (was) such a user with a `reject` policy specified in DMARC. I would appreciate if you reconfigured the mailing list to be compliant with such a policy. In the meantime I have configured a subdomain with relaxed SPF/DMARC rules and resubscribed with an email address that shouldn't cause any more problems. Cheers, -- Alexandru Nedelcu alexn.org ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Too many bounces?
On 28 Jan 2019, at 9:35, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: As a short term solution I've now disabled bounce processing on my mailing list software. This is mainly a problem for me and not my users. This won't change the fact that some emails (at least from 1 user) is not going to be received by a lot of other users. The longer term solution is going to require updating my server and the mailing list software used (MailMan). I don't have an exact time frame on this, because I need to be certain I have plenty of time to resolve any server issues triggered by updating the server (and there are always unexpected issues when updating). It's not a waste of time though, because my server was already due to be updated before April 2019 :) -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Too many bounces?
On 27 Jan 2019, at 18:06, Robert Brenstein wrote: Such notifications are most often prompted by the sending host, that is the list host, suddenly deemed to be a spammer. This could be the problem, but I don't think this is the case. I use a third party service to monitor the reputation of my server and it has had no problems. Usually, it is a side-effect of some other user of that same service causing the IP (IP range) to be blacklisted. In this case, it might have been only Google thinking so, rightfully or not. Google, AOL, a few other services also count the number of recipients in each instance of mail and if they adjusted that limits, blacklisting would be the result. The issue seems to at least partly be caused by at least 1 user using the DMARC `reject` option. All users on email servers which respect this option (Gmail, iCloud, ...) are going to bounce emails from such a user. These bounces are going to add up on my server (there's a MailMan score system for this) and when it reaches a certain limit they are “unsubscribed” (they are actually only disabled at first). I'm deliberately trying to be vague here. When googling the subject you might notice that any statement about SPF/DKIM/DMARC is quickly followed by discussions about how things really work -- in theory or practice. I'm now at the point where I would automatically become suspicious if anyone (any webpage) seems to claim to fully understand the consequences of any kind of setup/setting related to this :-) As a short term solution I've now disabled bounce processing on my mailing list software. This is mainly a problem for me and not my users. This won't change the fact that some emails (at least from 1 user) is not going to be received by a lot of other users. If you want to see if you missed a reply to one of your emails then look here: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/ Data point: 89 mailing list members out of 474 have been unsubscribed (some have probably resubscribed now). -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] How do I disable external links in mailmate? (Rob McBroom)
Thank you. So I did. Henio Dnia 25.01.2019, o godzinie 18:00:02, z adresu "mailmate-requ...@lists.freron.com" przybyło to: but you could use something like [Browser Fairy][1] to handle all links on your system. Most of them can be immediately passed through to your favorite browser, but you can tell it, when opening a link from MailMate, to stop and ask which browser to ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
