Re: [MlMt] Inject custom javascript into Message View
I've tried this feature before, and the issue (as you noted) is
partially that MathML isn't supported by all clients, but even worse it
doesn't degrade gracefully. So people in email threads are frequently
unable to read my rendered HTML message, as (AFAIK) gmail just strips
mathML when displaying, and this completely destroys the content of the
message. Then people have to switch to viewing the plaintext message,
which loses my other formatting and is annoying (also some math people
are pretty non-technical). So, unfortunately, mathML is un-usable for
nice math in email if you need to communicate frequently with a rotating
cast of people, just owing to how rough the ecosystem for it is.
In a perfect would, I would send two-part messages with a normal
markdown HTML render, but people using mailmate or some other reasonable
client could use markdown+mathjax on the text/plain chunk of the message
to render it nicely in their local viewer.
Another solution is automatically turning on the MathML bundle _only_
for specific recipients who have known-good email clients; ie math gets
rendered as plaintext for everyone who isn't whitelisted, because I
often have email threads that have to go between some people who have
good email software and some who don't. This seem like it might be even
worse than the above, because then it breaks threading, because
different recipients are getting truly different messages... Maybe you
could bundle all three objects into a message, and have mailmate prefer
an HTML+MathML part? Could it be ensured that bad email clients only try
to render the no-mathML HTML?
Anyway I realize that this is a super-niche concern. Would that the
world was a better place for MathML. But now that I'm reminded of the
feature I can at least try and get all my mac friends on MailMate for
it, and grow a little circle of people sending emails to each other with
math that actually looks decent.
best,
-- marco
On 13 Jun 2017, at 7:09, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
On 13 Jun 2017, at 15:49, Marco Carmosino wrote:
For whatever it's worth, another application of javascript in MM web
view executed on plain-text messages is rendering equations. My
friends often send me markdown sprinkled with latex, and if I could
run mathjax in MM web view, this would make a lot of my email _way_
more readable. Nicely rendered equations instead of stuff like
`$g_{i,j}(z) = f(z|_{S_{i}})$` scattered all over would make my life
a lot easier. Heck, this would probably help me sell a few copies of
mailmate -- email with readable equations is a killer feature for
mathematicians, and currently there's _no_ good solution for this
anywhere.
MailMate doesn't use MathJax exactly because of its reliance on
Javascript, but MailMate does support the use of MathML. Its
usefulness depends on the receiving email client, but it works quite
well in MailMate:
~~~math
((n(n+1))/2)^2
~~~
It can also be used inline, ``a^2 + b^2 = c^2``. There's both a TeX
variant and an ASCIIMath variant.
It is documented
[here](https://manual.mailmate-app.com/preferences#html-styling).
--
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] Screen flashing during message composition
Hi, This exact thing has been happening to me too. Is your flash black? The entire preview window rectangle blacks out and then updates after a pause in keypresses, for me. I also cannot remember when it began. I am on 10.12.3 (16D32) with mailmate Version 1.9.6 (5344) with experimental 2.0 features turned on. Also, the preview window scrolls up to the top on updates. If I have typed an email that does not fit in the whole window, then I cannot see what I just edited. It would be nice if after updating, the line that was just updated was centered or something. I only noticed this recently, so I think the preview window used to make sure that just-edited elements of the text were always visible after updating. I also do not remember when this began and if it was always a problem or not. My memory is super terrible. thanks, -- marco On 14 Feb 2017, at 10:07, Jim Cook wrote: Hi When I'm writing an email with "message preview" enabled I am getting some sort of screen "flash" as each letter is typed and the preview is updated. If keys are pressed in quick succession then the lower preview screen isn't updated until there's a break in key presses, and then the screen flashes again. The "flash" is only on the preview screen. It doesn't happen all the time, but certainly most of the time, and happens on two different macs (15" MacBook Pro and MacBook, both running Sierra 10.12.3). In fact it's been happening for quite a long while (months) but i'm afraid I can't remember when it started. Thanks for your help, Regards Jim -- -- Rgds Jim ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Local email archiving status/options?
For whatever it's worth, I use http://offlineimap.org to archive email locally but keep it on the server, and then unsubscribe from the folder in MailMate. I also do not care about storage costs, I just want my email in an interchange format. This works for me. It brings down messages in well-formatted maildir, which can then be easily converted to mbox. I think a lot of reasonable email archive type programs also support maildir though. On 25 Aug 2015, at 13:26, Paul Hoffman wrote: A big +1 for a new feature of right-click-on-mailbox - Export This Mailbox with at least .mbox as one of the output formats. I'm fine if that is the only output format, but maildir would be useful as well. --Paul Hoffman ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Math Formatting Features/Options
Hi all, Benny, I really appreciate your working math support into MailMate. Is there any way, however, to get mail to render with https://www.mathjax.org instead of MathML? Or, to send email to other people that would somehow embed a link to the mathjax CDN and render in their gmail or whatever? I'm really murky on the details of this, sorry. I'd definitely be willing to put in some work for this. The reason is, mathjax produces better output than MathML rendering which tends to be poorly supported by most browsers. In a beautiful perfect world, I could get a preview window of emails that are being composed, possibly just using marked, that would render all my math and markdown during composition. I realize that this is a super niche question, but if you're willing to pander to mathematicians just a little but more I'd really appreciate it. Anyone on-list with hints about how to get messages that mailmate produces to render math nicely in Gmail running on a fairly modern browser? This is what most of my collaborators use. thanks, -- Marco ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] giving up - MailMate crash - won't synchronize
Do these programs (thunderbird etc) store messages in mbox format? If so, piping the mbox files in and out of the formail program (part of procmail, it forces messages into mbox format using some heuristics) can fix at least some, perhaps even most corruption. Then, you can diff the formail output and see what messages were dropped and fix those manually. I had to recover a bunch of email archives with corruption a couple years ago and this worked well. Formail can also split mboxes into uniform-sized files, so you can take on this task in bite-sized chunks, so you can do this 100 messages at a time or so. I lost the scripts that I used to do this but here are some links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procmail http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/formail1.html Formail comes with mac os x. best, -- marco On 14 May 2015, at 9:57, Helen Holzgrafe wrote: Following up on my last message: When I got the endless sync problem when moving a folder, here is the only thing that worked to keep going: Force quit Mailmate. Restart Mailmate. Remove completely the folder in question. Quit Mailmate again (this is crucial for some reason). Restart Mailmate. Try again to move a smaller set of messages from the offending folder. Perhaps it would be good if Mailmate could do better detecting/handling corrupt import files. For me, it would have made things easier if Mailmate could report which message(s) seem corrupt . Then I could have imported the good ones with less trial and error. Maybe Mailmate could attempt to fix the corrupt messages and import them into some special folder for further inspection by the user... -Helen On 14 May 2015, at 9:35, Helen Holzgrafe wrote: I just saw this thread and I have had the same problem with endless synchronizing while transitioning. I was using Postbox, but it is very similar to Thunderbird (I believe from the same base source code). I had 20+ years of mail, more than 350,000 messages and three accounts. I solved this by never moving more than one mailbox folder at a time (not account, not mail box, but folder). If a folder was more than about a 1000 messages I broke that up even smaller. That allowed me to get everything moved over. What was the problem for me and why I never reported anything to Benny: Every time I had a folder fail to transition properly was because it had one or more corrupt mail messages in the folder. Every time the synchronize would fail I would reduce the number of messages being moved until I was able to find the corrupt message(s). Those I could not move until I manually edited the message using BBedit to correct the issue. It was usually a corrupt line in the header or a missing end of message line. Thunderbird and Postbox keep message folders as very big files and use special lines in the files to indicate where messages begin and end. If even one byte of one of these lines is wrong the whole thing goes wrong very quickly. I usually found these in very old mail files that weren't used much and had been moved from disk to disk or service to service and had just degraded over time. I switched to Mailmate because I was having trouble with Postbox not handling my messages very well any more (probably because of these corrupt messages, but I cannot be sure). I had intended to move stuff into Mailmate to clean up my mail archive and then move back to Postbox. However, I found Mailmate a better client. I also must point out that Benny was very helpful and responsive to my questions and helped with some other issues I had transitioning. The developer of Postbox never responded to my requests for help with my mail problems, so I had to learn all this myself. Is Thunderbird even actively supported anymore? -Helen On 14 May 2015, at 9:07, James Galvin wrote: On 5/14/15 7:35 AM, Annamarie wrote: How difficult would it be to simply start using MM fresh? Leave all those messages in the apps where they are now? Go reference them when you need them - I realize that building an address list might take a bit of time but maybe cumulatively not as much time as you've already spent trying to get this to work? I've been shocked by how little I actually go back to old emails. My experience is the opposite. For my day job, email addressed to me is quite valuable and necessarily retained, for a variety of reasons I won't detail here. Ready access is essential. By the way, I have email going back at least 25 years, that is not included in this MailMate transition. It's only accessible on old desktops and laptops that I keep around just to have access to the archives. Interestingly, MailMate presents an opportunity for me to bring forward some of these archives, which would be a big win for me. However, I'll have to be wary of reaching a size limit as discussed elsewhere in this thread. And some of that old email has proved quite valuable. Jim
Re: [MlMt] Nervous about integration with my smartphone
I completely agree with you. Using MailMate spoils any other desktop mail experience. For my part, however, I've always used a fairly powerful desktop based email client, it was mutt (for years) before MailMate. I got an iPhone, and recognized that the email experience there is very limited. However, raw power is not necessarily what I want when I'm using email from my phone. I invariably want one of two things: 1. To search my email for a piece of information that I need right this instant 2. To glance at my inbox and see if anything is on fire For glancing, the built in mail client on the iPhone is OK, and apps like Triage and Dispatch are rather good. When I'm at my desk I use the features of my mail client to keep the INBOX folder pretty clear of meaningless stuff, so glancing at it on the iPhone before I do my daily purge in MailMate (previously, mutt) is actually pretty informative as stuff comes in through the day. For immediate fact finding, the full-text search in Mail on the iPhone is passable, I'm pretty sure it just uses IMAP SEARCH with fairly stupid arguments, and I have a good IMAP provider so that works out well. Unfortunately, there's nothing on the iPhone that supports searching based on IMAP keywords (to my knowledge), and I make heavy use of keywords to tag and organize my mail. I mitigate the issues with search by trying to break important information out of email into Omnifocus or synced notes, but of course I'm not perfect about this. The point of this long and rambling account is that I think the objectives of using email on a phone vs. on a desktop are so different, that it mostly doesn't matter that the phone mail clients are so feature-impoverished vs. MailMate. In a perfect world, there'd be a great app on the iPhone that ONLY searches mail and takes into account folders, keywords, flags, people, etc in a smart way. In this world, you can pretty much get by with the builtin client for information-seeking, and there are actually *good* options for glancing at email coming in to decide if you need to do something right now. I think a phone is a complement to a desktop app. I think it should not attempt to achieve feature parity. best, -- Marco On 28 Feb 2015, at 20:10, Sparky Doosan wrote: Hey I hope it's OK to share thoughts and feelings, LOL. TBH I haven't used a local mail client for a long, long time. Something changed recently that I think is making me want to bail on the browser-based experience and instead start rebuilding and flexing the powerful muscles that come from a local client -- MailMate looks a winner! But all that said, I confess I'm nervous. My experience in the past, maybe it sounds familiar to somebody, is that the mail handling on my local computer will become such a part of normal workflows... using anything else will shortly be entirely unsatisfactory. In the form of a question, do you use both MailMate and also some IMAP thing from your smartphone? I'm not really concerned about a quick check-in on someone else's computer and browser... I just want to integrate my computer and my phone, and don't think MailMate provides a one-stop answer(?). If you've solved this concern please tell me (us) how you did it? Thanks! ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] keeping sent mail with other mail
Hi all, I actually had a fantastically helpful conversation on this mailing list that led to the following smart folder, Threaded Inbox, which always has threading turned on: Any of: All of: Thread-id is in Inbox Thread-id Source Path is Inbox/Sent Messages Message-id is not in Mailing Lists Message-Id All of: Thread-id is in Inbox Thread-id Source Path is not Inbox/Sent Messages This has the effect of including whole conversations in my inbox so that my replies are included in threads (by sourcing from Sent Mail) and filtering out duplicates from mailing lists (by using the message-ids in the Mailing Lists smart folder), without BCCing myself or anything. Admittedly is is heavily reliant on MailMate's intelligence. But, I figure, stuff like this is exactly why I got the program. best, -- Marco On 17 Feb 2015, at 17:29, Shoshanna Green wrote: On Feb 17, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Allie Martin a...@maclink.me wrote: On 17 Feb 2015, at 9:02, Shoshanna Green wrote: For three decades, I've kept track of my outgoing mail by BCC:ing myself. How do you deal with list messages where a duplicate is sent back to you? Do you disable that feature on the mail server if you can? Or do you simply tolerate the duplications? Yes, exactly. It's much less of a problem than having conversations split in half! -- Shoshanna Green shoshan...@gmail.com ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threading Confusion
The threaded inbox smart folder described by Benny is actually perfect for my purposes, thanks, and it is indeed working dynamically, sorry for the confusion. The only issue remaining is mailing lists: there are two starting messages for the thread, one reflected by the mailing list and one from my Sent Messages folder, showing up in my Threaded Inbox. MailMate hangs the thread off the copy of the initial message from my Sent Messages folder. And the same will happen with this message: two copies of my reply will show up in the threaded inbox, one from Sent Messages and one from the list. I suppose I could just work with mailing lists completely separately, by moving anything from a mailing list out of my inbox and using the mailing lists smart folder. Since my replies are bounced to me, I'll have the whole conversation in there without having to match thread-id anyway. How do people deal with this in MailMate? Currently I've got thread-id is in Inbox Thread-id, list-id does not exist, and Source Path is not Drafts, so that replies to mailing list threads that are still living in the underlying INBOX folder don't show up. Of course, this splits my inbox in a bit of a weird way. I think ideally I'd prefer live threads from mailing lists in my Threaded inbox, without the duplicate messages. Currently I'm trying to figure out some way to write exclude messages in Drafts and Sent messages that are in reply to or sent to any mailing list, I think this would achieve what I want. Thanks, -- Marco On 17 Jan 2015, at 7:05, Kai Großjohann wrote: I've got a solution that might work for the replies. Instead of relying on the copies of the messages that MailMate saves when I send one, I am Bcc'ing myself. This means that all the incoming email filters apply to my own messages, too. I use this undocumented preference to achieve this: MmDefaultBccHeader = .sender.; I believe it can be set with the following shell command: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmDefaultBccHeader '.sender.' Kai On 17 Jan 2015, at 6:55, Marco Carmosino wrote: Hi, I have the latest MailMate (5035 64 bit beta). Looking at my inbox, I can hit the Thread button and get a same threads view. But this doesn't seem to update when new messages arrive, i.e. it isn't a dynamic query. Is there a way to set it up such that, if a single message from a thread is in a mailbox, then all messages from that thread are displayed, threaded, in the viewer? Alternately, I mostly use this button to see my own replies spliced into a thread that I'm currently following, so anything accomplishing that automatically and by default would be fine. Another desirable version of this would be, set up a folder such that, if a single message from a thread that also has messages in some other list of folders (for me this would be set to Archive and Sent Messages) display the whole thread in the viewer. Thanks, -- Marco ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Threading Confusion
Hi, I have the latest MailMate (5035 64 bit beta). Looking at my inbox, I can hit the Thread button and get a same threads view. But this doesn't seem to update when new messages arrive, i.e. it isn't a dynamic query. Is there a way to set it up such that, if a single message from a thread is in a mailbox, then all messages from that thread are displayed, threaded, in the viewer? Alternately, I mostly use this button to see my own replies spliced into a thread that I'm currently following, so anything accomplishing that automatically and by default would be fine. Another desirable version of this would be, set up a folder such that, if a single message from a thread that also has messages in some other list of folders (for me this would be set to Archive and Sent Messages) display the whole thread in the viewer. Thanks, -- Marco ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
