Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
Devyn, I think you and I have similar mail browsing styles. I have enabled the preference to store sent messages with their replies, because I have a bunch of distinct IMAP folders for various parts of my email universe. I want to be able to browse the full set of messages for one category, and easily view the full thread of a conversation. I rarely let messages stay in the Sent folder. Instead, I move them manually to the right folder as needed, i.e., when they are initiating a new thread. In my experience, there’s no real downside. You may want to adjust how your auto-completion works by creating a new smart folder that contains all the messages you have sent. Using that folder in the Preferences under Composer -> Auto-Completion Sources -> Recipient Headers will give you the same (actually better, IMHO) functionality than the default configuration. On 10 Jan 2024, at 14:41, devynosbo...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! MaiMate newbie here again, this time with a question about the [hidden](https://manual.mailmate-app.com/hidden_preferences) [preference](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/213) to store a sent message with the message to which it is a reply. I’m a little uncertain if this will do what I want, without adverse affects that I haven’t considered. Basically, I always want to see the total thread, no matter how I get to the individual message. As it is now, in my initial poking around MM, the messages in threads are mostly shown separately (eg, in Inbox and Sent Messages). The only place I see a complete thread is in All Messages. In my day-to-day, if I look in my Inbox or even Sent, I want to see the thread, so 1) I know that I did reply, 2) I can refer to what I and others wrote, and 3) easily reply again if I need to pester somebody about my last unanswered reply. :-) Is this the right setting? What is the argument to *not* use this? I guess I’m so used to organizing by thread (which I have turned on in MM), it’s hard for me to imagine emails otherwise. I’m also unclear about the address completion setting. Does that just mean that MM may not have access to all previously used addresses in order to suggest them again? I don’t think that’s so critical, as I mostly email people in my Contacts. Last, I’m also unclear on this setting: The same can be done with the following preference which completely changes what is shown in the “Sent Messages” standard mailbox. This is convenient if sent messages are not kept in dedicated mailboxes: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmSentMailbox -string 8F9C1062-E4F8-4949-B5DC-BAB7CDEC4110 The value given should be the UUID of a mailbox. The UUID can be copied to the pasteboard using “Edit ▸ Copy” after selecting a mailbox. I guess I use what’s called the “Sent Messages” standard mailbox. That seems to me to be a dedicated mailbox, unless that means a Sent mailbox that I have created? I don’t think I understand ‘“Sent Messages” standard mailbox’ vs ‘dedicated mailbox’. If it helps / matters, I don’t really use tags or folders. I mostly use Gmail, and do use its Important tag (which I figured out how to map properly in MM), but otherwise don’t tag or reorganize emails. I appreciate any guidance and hand holding here! Devyn___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Glenn P. Parker glenn.par...@comcast.net ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
Hi Glenn, Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the help! I don’t tend to move messages, though I do live in threads. It sounds this will get me there. A few questions occurred to me since writing yesterday: 1. In recent years, I’ve relied heavily on Smart Folders in Apple Mail for organization. Will threads appear properly in MM’s Smart Folders? 2. How does this affect Gmail’s organization (or lack thereof)? (I mainly use Gmail, though do intend to move more to my custom domain, currently hosted with Dreamhost.) 3. Does this help to see threads when searching? As it is now when I search for, say, “threads f glenn” it displays your single email alone. If I right-click Find Messages > Related to "Threads and Sent Messages”, it still shows just your one email. If I right-click Go to Source, MM opens a new window, but still shows just your email. Once the preference is enabled, would any of these views show this thread? Or is there another method that I am missing? Searching is a big part of my email experience, and the ability to get to a thread through search is pretty critical. Thanks! Devyn On 10 Jan 2024, at 20:22, Glenn Parker wrote: Devyn, I think you and I have similar mail browsing styles. I have enabled the preference to store sent messages with their replies, because I have a bunch of distinct IMAP folders for various parts of my email universe. I want to be able to browse the full set of messages for one category, and easily view the full thread of a conversation. I rarely let messages stay in the Sent folder. Instead, I move them manually to the right folder as needed, i.e., when they are initiating a new thread. In my experience, there’s no real downside. You may want to adjust how your auto-completion works by creating a new smart folder that contains all the messages you have sent. Using that folder in the Preferences under Composer -> Auto-Completion Sources -> Recipient Headers will give you the same (actually better, IMHO) functionality than the default configuration. On 10 Jan 2024, at 14:41, devynosbo...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! MaiMate newbie here again, this time with a question about the [hidden](https://manual.mailmate-app.com/hidden_preferences) [preference](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/213) to store a sent message with the message to which it is a reply. I’m a little uncertain if this will do what I want, without adverse affects that I haven’t considered. Basically, I always want to see the total thread, no matter how I get to the individual message. As it is now, in my initial poking around MM, the messages in threads are mostly shown separately (eg, in Inbox and Sent Messages). The only place I see a complete thread is in All Messages. In my day-to-day, if I look in my Inbox or even Sent, I want to see the thread, so 1) I know that I did reply, 2) I can refer to what I and others wrote, and 3) easily reply again if I need to pester somebody about my last unanswered reply. :-) Is this the right setting? What is the argument to *not* use this? I guess I’m so used to organizing by thread (which I have turned on in MM), it’s hard for me to imagine emails otherwise. I’m also unclear about the address completion setting. Does that just mean that MM may not have access to all previously used addresses in order to suggest them again? I don’t think that’s so critical, as I mostly email people in my Contacts. Last, I’m also unclear on this setting: The same can be done with the following preference which completely changes what is shown in the “Sent Messages” standard mailbox. This is convenient if sent messages are not kept in dedicated mailboxes: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmSentMailbox -string 8F9C1062-E4F8-4949-B5DC-BAB7CDEC4110 The value given should be the UUID of a mailbox. The UUID can be copied to the pasteboard using “Edit ▸ Copy” after selecting a mailbox. I guess I use what’s called the “Sent Messages” standard mailbox. That seems to me to be a dedicated mailbox, unless that means a Sent mailbox that I have created? I don’t think I understand ‘“Sent Messages” standard mailbox’ vs ‘dedicated mailbox’. If it helps / matters, I don’t really use tags or folders. I mostly use Gmail, and do use its Important tag (which I figured out how to map properly in MM), but otherwise don’t tag or reorganize emails. I appreciate any guidance and hand holding here! Devyn___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Glenn P. Parker glenn.par...@comcast.net ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
Upon further searching and reading through the archives, I think my question is actually more related to how MM handles threads in general, especially from the point of view of someone coming to it from years of Gmail and Apple Mail. [This thread](https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg12393.html) gets at my questions. It sounds like “group threading” and (possibly) “conversation view” are on the list to implement, but haven’t been yet. I can only guess how complicated they are to incorporate. I did find [some](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1450-view-my-replies-in-threads) [tips](https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg00256.html) for creating Smart Mailboxes that show threads together, including the included example Smart Mailbox “Personal Inbox with Threads”. I also finally saw the Threads tool, that brings up an email’s thread. Are those the best ways to get the most consistent views of threads? I also found some custom views. Does anyone know if these still work? They’re about nine and ten years old, respectively, so I imagine they may not. [Better threaded view](https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg03323.html) from Max Andersen [combination of conversation and thread arc views](https://tech-notes.maxmasnick.com/mailmate-combination-of-conversation-and-thread-arc-views) from MaxMasnik If there are other views or preferences I’m missing, please share. (And, I’m still curious about how people use email *without* comprehensive views by thread. Though, after years of viewing emails in the context of their conversations, I find it hard to imagine not doing so.) Much appreciated! Devyn On 11 Jan 2024, at 9:26, devynosbo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Glenn, Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the help! I don’t tend to move messages, though I do live in threads. It sounds this will get me there. A few questions occurred to me since writing yesterday: 1. In recent years, I’ve relied heavily on Smart Folders in Apple Mail for organization. Will threads appear properly in MM’s Smart Folders? 2. How does this affect Gmail’s organization (or lack thereof)? (I mainly use Gmail, though do intend to move more to my custom domain, currently hosted with Dreamhost.) 3. Does this help to see threads when searching? As it is now when I search for, say, “threads f glenn” it displays your single email alone. If I right-click Find Messages > Related to "Threads and Sent Messages”, it still shows just your one email. If I right-click Go to Source, MM opens a new window, but still shows just your email. Once the preference is enabled, would any of these views show this thread? Or is there another method that I am missing? Searching is a big part of my email experience, and the ability to get to a thread through search is pretty critical. Thanks! Devyn On 10 Jan 2024, at 20:22, Glenn Parker wrote: Devyn, I think you and I have similar mail browsing styles. I have enabled the preference to store sent messages with their replies, because I have a bunch of distinct IMAP folders for various parts of my email universe. I want to be able to browse the full set of messages for one category, and easily view the full thread of a conversation. I rarely let messages stay in the Sent folder. Instead, I move them manually to the right folder as needed, i.e., when they are initiating a new thread. In my experience, there’s no real downside. You may want to adjust how your auto-completion works by creating a new smart folder that contains all the messages you have sent. Using that folder in the Preferences under Composer -> Auto-Completion Sources -> Recipient Headers will give you the same (actually better, IMHO) functionality than the default configuration. On 10 Jan 2024, at 14:41, devynosbo...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! MaiMate newbie here again, this time with a question about the [hidden](https://manual.mailmate-app.com/hidden_preferences) [preference](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/213) to store a sent message with the message to which it is a reply. I’m a little uncertain if this will do what I want, without adverse affects that I haven’t considered. Basically, I always want to see the total thread, no matter how I get to the individual message. As it is now, in my initial poking around MM, the messages in threads are mostly shown separately (eg, in Inbox and Sent Messages). The only place I see a complete thread is in All Messages. In my day-to-day, if I look in my Inbox or even Sent, I want to see the thread, so 1) I know that I did reply, 2) I can refer to what I and others wrote, and 3) easily reply again if I need to pester somebody about my last unanswered reply. :-) Is this the right setting? What is the argument to *not* use this? I guess I’m so used to organizing by thread (which I have turned on in MM), it’s hard
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
Well, I'm someone who doesn't care about "conversation view," so I guess I can try to explain why not. I do know other people who care about it a lot. I do frequently refer to old (sometimes very old) email messages for all sorts of reasons. I just search. MailMate has what I think are really great search features and I can usually find what I'm looking for pretty fast and easily. Usually all I need is the search box in the upper right of the viewer window. Sometimes I need to further filter with additional search criteria. Sometimes I make a new smart mailbox if I think I'll want to refer to the messages again in a few hours or days. I also use the MailMate feature of clicking on "From:", "Subject:", "To:" lines in the message header pane a lot to find other similar messages. That's it, I just search. It works really well for me. I don't care about threads or conversation view. I don't even usually have "Organize by Thread" turned on. I think this is mostly a "different strokes" kind of thing. On Mon 2024-01-15 12:25 PM MST -0700, wrote: (And, I’m still curious about how people use email *without* comprehensive views by thread. Though, after years of viewing emails in the context of their conversations, I find it hard to imagine not doing so.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. I think, for me, that could work as long as I knew what I was looking for. Often, though, I’m revisiting an old conversation to see where we left off, who’s court the ball is in, or how much I need to pester someone. ;-) A lot of what I do is staying on top of other people and/or following up, and seeing the whole view of a conversation is very helpful. Thanks for the tip re: clicking on header lines. I think that might come in handy. And thanks again for sharing how you work; it helps inform my use (especially as long as I’m shifting email clients). I even read [this review](https://tyler.io/2020/04/additional-mailmate-tips/) in which he says MM broke him of his habit of looking in threaded views. :-) On 15 Jan 2024, at 12:22, John Doherty wrote: Well, I'm someone who doesn't care about "conversation view," so I guess I can try to explain why not. I do know other people who care about it a lot. I do frequently refer to old (sometimes very old) email messages for all sorts of reasons. I just search. MailMate has what I think are really great search features and I can usually find what I'm looking for pretty fast and easily. Usually all I need is the search box in the upper right of the viewer window. Sometimes I need to further filter with additional search criteria. Sometimes I make a new smart mailbox if I think I'll want to refer to the messages again in a few hours or days. I also use the MailMate feature of clicking on "From:", "Subject:", "To:" lines in the message header pane a lot to find other similar messages. That's it, I just search. It works really well for me. I don't care about threads or conversation view. I don't even usually have "Organize by Thread" turned on. I think this is mostly a "different strokes" kind of thing. On Mon 2024-01-15 12:25 PM MST -0700, wrote: (And, I’m still curious about how people use email *without* comprehensive views by thread. Though, after years of viewing emails in the context of their conversations, I find it hard to imagine not doing so.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
The conversation threads drive me crazy - first, I hate clicking to open the thread to get to the most recent, but mostly I just want the newest emails to be on top. I have a lot of filters set up to route things into folders (mostly by senders or groups of senders), so I can find my conversations that way, I guess. Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. I think, for me, that could work as long as I knew what I was looking for. Often, though, I’m revisiting an old conversation to see where we left off, who’s court the ball is in, or how much I need to pester someone. ;-) A lot of what I do is staying on top of other people and/or following up, and seeing the whole view of a conversation is very helpful. Thanks for the tip re: clicking on header lines. I think that might come in handy. And thanks again for sharing how you work; it helps inform my use (especially as long as I’m shifting email clients). I even read [this review](https://tyler.io/2020/04/additional-mailmate-tips/) in which he says MM broke him of his habit of looking in threaded views. :-) On 15 Jan 2024, at 12:22, John Doherty wrote: Well, I'm someone who doesn't care about "conversation view," so I guess I can try to explain why not. I do know other people who care about it a lot. I do frequently refer to old (sometimes very old) email messages for all sorts of reasons. I just search. MailMate has what I think are really great search features and I can usually find what I'm looking for pretty fast and easily. Usually all I need is the search box in the upper right of the viewer window. Sometimes I need to further filter with additional search criteria. Sometimes I make a new smart mailbox if I think I'll want to refer to the messages again in a few hours or days. I also use the MailMate feature of clicking on "From:", "Subject:", "To:" lines in the message header pane a lot to find other similar messages. That's it, I just search. It works really well for me. I don't care about threads or conversation view. I don't even usually have "Organize by Thread" turned on. I think this is mostly a "different strokes" kind of thing. On Mon 2024-01-15 12:25 PM MST -0700, wrote: (And, I’m still curious about how people use email *without* comprehensive views by thread. Though, after years of viewing emails in the context of their conversations, I find it hard to imagine not doing so.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Jo ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ You could say I'd lost my belief in our politicians They all seemed like game show hosts to me. ~~ Sting ~~ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
That’s a good point. I saw a lot of mention throughout the archives of the chronological issue, which I understand will be solved with the newer version of threading, still to be implemented. On 15 Jan 2024, at 12:46, Jo wrote: The conversation threads drive me crazy - first, I hate clicking to open the thread to get to the most recent, but mostly I just want the newest emails to be on top. I have a lot of filters set up to route things into folders (mostly by senders or groups of senders), so I can find my conversations that way, I guess. Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. I think, for me, that could work as long as I knew what I was looking for. Often, though, I’m revisiting an old conversation to see where we left off, who’s court the ball is in, or how much I need to pester someone. ;-) A lot of what I do is staying on top of other people and/or following up, and seeing the whole view of a conversation is very helpful. Thanks for the tip re: clicking on header lines. I think that might come in handy. And thanks again for sharing how you work; it helps inform my use (especially as long as I’m shifting email clients). I even read [this review](https://tyler.io/2020/04/additional-mailmate-tips/) in which he says MM broke him of his habit of looking in threaded views. :-) On 15 Jan 2024, at 12:22, John Doherty wrote: Well, I'm someone who doesn't care about "conversation view," so I guess I can try to explain why not. I do know other people who care about it a lot. I do frequently refer to old (sometimes very old) email messages for all sorts of reasons. I just search. MailMate has what I think are really great search features and I can usually find what I'm looking for pretty fast and easily. Usually all I need is the search box in the upper right of the viewer window. Sometimes I need to further filter with additional search criteria. Sometimes I make a new smart mailbox if I think I'll want to refer to the messages again in a few hours or days. I also use the MailMate feature of clicking on "From:", "Subject:", "To:" lines in the message header pane a lot to find other similar messages. That's it, I just search. It works really well for me. I don't care about threads or conversation view. I don't even usually have "Organize by Thread" turned on. I think this is mostly a "different strokes" kind of thing. On Mon 2024-01-15 12:25 PM MST -0700, wrote: (And, I’m still curious about how people use email *without* comprehensive views by thread. Though, after years of viewing emails in the context of their conversations, I find it hard to imagine not doing so.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate Jo ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ You could say I'd lost my belief in our politicians They all seemed like game show hosts to me. ~~ Sting ~~ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
I think it's a great feature, I use it a lot. I might say it's one of my favorites but really, MailMate has *so many* great features that I hesitate to rank them. Like, I think, a lot of MailMate users, I really can't thank Benny enough. I love this program, would absolutely not want to use any other email client. On Mon 2024-01-15 01:34 PM MST -0700, wrote: Thanks for the tip re: clicking on header lines. I think that might come in handy. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
On 15 Jan 2024, at 13:29, John Doherty wrote: > MailMate has *so many* great features that I hesitate to rank them. So I’m learning! I’ve been using it about a week, but every day I’ve found another good feature or trick. It really is much better than any other program (and I think I’ve tried them all, at this point). I’m just trying to wrap my head around threads. I hope it’s not coming off critical! (I also appreciate the generous trial period. Other programs give you just a week - or less! - which is really not sufficient to evaluate an email program, or any program really.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
Oh no, don't worry about seeming critical. Different people have different preferences and habits, different kinds of work to do, and different kinds of correspondence. Most of my co-workers use gmail in a web browser. Can't imagine doing that myself, but whatever they like for whatever reason is fine. None of my business. On Mon 2024-01-15 02:36 PM MST -0700, wrote: On 15 Jan 2024, at 13:29, John Doherty wrote: MailMate has *so many* great features that I hesitate to rank them. So I’m learning! I’ve been using it about a week, but every day I’ve found another good feature or trick. It really is much better than any other program (and I think I’ve tried them all, at this point). I’m just trying to wrap my head around threads. I hope it’s not coming off critical! (I also appreciate the generous trial period. Other programs give you just a week - or less! - which is really not sufficient to evaluate an email program, or any program really.) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Threads and Sent Messages
devynosbo...@gmail.com wrote (at 1:36 PM on Monday, January 15, 2024): > On 15 Jan 2024, at 13:29, John Doherty wrote: > > I’ve been using it about a week, but every day I’ve found another good > feature or trick. It really is much better than any other program (and I > think I’ve tried them all, at this point). > > I’m just trying to wrap my head around threads. For what it's worth, I've been using MailMate for ten years (I think), and I've never used Correspondence view or Thread Arcs. I just organize by thread and keep sent messages in the mailboxes where it makes most sense (to me). It's worth checking out features to see if there's a better way than the way you're used to, but it's just as valid to decide to stick with the habitual, tried, and true. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
