Re: [mailop] Delivery to gmail via IPv6

[Franck Martin]

It also has to do with people not understanding DSN. Seriously they are
ugly and hard to find the relevant information in them...

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:11 AM, Ian Eiloart  wrote:

>
> > On 8 Dec 2015, at 18:31, Franck Martin  wrote:
> >
> > Yes, reject
> >
> > It seems that email systems that send you a DSN because of a temporary
> rejection are becoming rarer…
>
> Well, that might be an artefact of more reliable mail systems, and market
> concentration around medium and large mail providers that tend to fix
> things quickly when they do go wrong. I think Exim has a default first
> warning after 24 hours.
>
> But really, that’s not the responsibility of the recipient’s mail
> provider, it’s the responsibility of the sender’s mail provider.
>
> --
> Ian Eiloart
> Postmaster, University of Sussex
> +44 (0) 1273 87-3148
>
>
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Re: [mailop] Delivery to gmail via IPv6

[Dave Warren]

And unfortunately the friendlier they are, the less useful they usually are.

The ugly ones are the only ones that are useful, but for whatever 
reason, it's beyond MTA developers to start with friendly messages with 
a "Troubleshooting information below" that contains a useful transcript.


As a techie, I appreciate the info, but the reality is that unless you 
expect the sender to take some action, transient error messages aren't 
usually useful. We've scaled back the transient failures that we send, 
at most you get a single transient and single permanent error, and even 
still, I question the value of the transient error since the user can't 
actually do anything (and nor does forwarding it to support@ help). Of 
course, we also allow users to view the SMTP queue for all messages 
involving their account for those who care, so that might skew my viewpoint.


I'm not a fan of the current trend of using permanent error codes in 
SMTP for what might well be transient errors (DNS problems, for 
example), but at the same time, as a sender, I don't see any value in 
retrying more than 24 hours.


It's tough to balance user expectations though.

--
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren

On 2015-12-10 10:43, Franck Martin wrote:
It also has to do with people not understanding DSN. Seriously they 
are ugly and hard to find the relevant information in them...






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Re: [mailop] Delivery to gmail via IPv6

[Ian Eiloart]

> On 8 Dec 2015, at 18:31, Franck Martin  wrote:
> 
> Yes, reject
> 
> It seems that email systems that send you a DSN because of a temporary 
> rejection are becoming rarer…

Well, that might be an artefact of more reliable mail systems, and market 
concentration around medium and large mail providers that tend to fix things 
quickly when they do go wrong. I think Exim has a default first warning after 
24 hours. 

But really, that’s not the responsibility of the recipient’s mail provider, 
it’s the responsibility of the sender’s mail provider.

-- 
Ian Eiloart
Postmaster, University of Sussex
+44 (0) 1273 87-3148

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