Re: [mailop] Yahoo DMARC changes

2016-03-23 Thread Franck Martin via mailop 
In fact, these providers offer OAUTH2 to allow you to send as using their
infrastructure, and if you have bigger needs, many domains are going cheap
at the moment...

Not ideal, but some options...

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Steve Atkins  wrote:

>
> > On Mar 23, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Joel Beckham  wrote:
> >
> >
> > It's likely that ARC will become the new - much better - workaround
> eventually, modulo the inevitable deployment issues. http://arc-spec.org
> >
> > I thought that ARC doesn't help with the ESP use case, or am I missing
> something there?
>
> Probably not, no. The long term answer there is probably much the same as
> the short term one - declining to send mail "from" users of those consumer
> ISPs who've published p=reject records, and encouraging them to get an
> email address elsewhere (whether that be an email address controlled by the
> ESP or one from a more appropriate mailbox provider).
>
> Cheers,
>   Steve
>
>
>
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Re: [mailop] Yahoo DMARC changes

2016-03-23 Thread Joel Beckham 
>
> It's likely that ARC will become the new - much better - workaround
> eventually, modulo the inevitable deployment issues. http://arc-spec.org
> 
>

I thought that ARC doesn't help with the ESP use case, or am I missing
something there?
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Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

2016-03-23 Thread Michelle Sullivan 

Brandon Long via mailop wrote:

I think it's a numbers problem.

If you handle a high enough volume of mail, if you sometimes drop 
mail, and sometimes have false positives that you drop... you will 
eventually reach a volume of dropped false positives that will have 
visible affects.


Ie, if you reach a point of dropping 100k or 1M good messages, you're 
going to have a bad time.


And, dropping mail that the user tells you to drop is fine, obviously.



As court documents can be delivered by email in some jurisdictions it'll 
be interesting the first time something that affects judgement is dropped.


.. I have recently been on the receiving end and it cost me just under 
€5000 ... The damages are currently in debate with the company concerned 
and they are looking at whether the provider is responsible (actually 
they're trying to blame the provider, however they mis-typed an email 
... 'gmail.com.mt' != 'gmail.com' and they're just trying to find a 
reason why it's not their fault.)


Regards,

Michelle

--
Michelle Sullivan
http://www.mhix.org/


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Re: [mailop] Yahoo DMARC changes

2016-03-23 Thread Steve Atkins 

> On Mar 22, 2016, at 9:35 PM,   wrote:
> 
> Are you taking that approach because the workaround is less than ideal?  
> Otherwise the current “workaround” could be the new standard.

The workaround is terrible and breaks basic email functionality.

It's likely that ARC will become the new - much better - workaround eventually, 
modulo the inevitable deployment issues. http://arc-spec.org

Cheers,
  Steve

>  
> Frank
>  
> From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Vick Khera
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 8:54 PM
> To: mailop 
> Subject: Re: [mailop] Yahoo DMARC changes
>  
>  
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Steve Atkins  wrote:
>> So if you've been doing anything special with forwarders or mailing lists 
>> for yahoo.com
>>  
>> it's probably a good idea to do it for their other domains too in the next 
>> few days.
>  
> When Y! first set up p=reject on their main domain, we built our system's 
> evasive maneuvers to work around it to be domain independent. Our systems do 
> a DNS lookup for the DMARC record and if they find p=reject or p=quarantine 
> and we do not sign using their From address in the domain, we automatically 
> enable the workarounds to avoid falling in the trap. No manual configuration 
> necessary.
> 
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Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

2016-03-23 Thread Gilles Chehade 
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 05:39:43PM +, Michael Wise wrote:
> We have convinced some of the Powers That Be that we should find another 
> solution, and there is an open-ness to change on this behavior. Not gonna be 
> this week or this month ... who can say for sure. But noise is being made 
> about it.
> 

very very cool, this mail dropping thing is absurd and pretty much any
other option as harsh as it can be is going to be a better response :)

let us know if you need a megaphone to amplify your noise !

-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

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