Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted

2018-11-19 Thread Andy Onofrei via mailop 
HI , 

I'm glad that my question has developed into such a big topic .. which is 
pretty interesting.

One update: Richard from SpamCop has contacted offlist and we worked it out.
I wanted to say a big thank you to Richard and also once again mailop works .

Regards

Andrei Onofrei
Dynamics 365 Email Deliverability Engineer
andrei.onof...@microsoft.com | +420 720 359 205
BBC Delta Building, Vyskočilova 1561/4a, 140 00 Prague, The Czech Republic




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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Spamcop IP blacklisted (Mathieu Bourdin)
   2. Re: Spamcop IP blacklisted (Laura Atkins)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:16:48 +
From: Mathieu Bourdin 
To: Benjamin BILLON , Laura Atkins
, Michael Wise 
Cc: mailop 
Subject: Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted
Message-ID: <60ac015c5775455b85414ae7c837b...@np6.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>My problem is more when it doesn't work, while it should.

That’s not a problem, that’s our job description.

More seriously, as has been said before, the problem starts when the minimum 
set of rules to abide to isn’t enough to get the reputation to grow 
sufficiently.
We have no issue with rules getting more strict, we just need to know if it’s 
“new rules” or if it’s “old rules gone haywire”

Mathieu Bourdin


De : mailop  De la part de Benjamin BILLON Envoyé : 
lundi 19 novembre 2018 12:13 À : Laura Atkins ; 
Michael Wise  Cc : mailop  Objet 
: Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted

> Does this mean I can’t declare the Era of IP Reputation is over?
No you can't, it has been explicitly said it's not over last month, in some 
meeting, by some major consumer provider.

This isn't a problem from my point of view, IPs or domains, the idea is to have 
an overall good reputation. Behave, and it'll work.

My problem is more when it doesn't work, while it should.

--
Benjamin

From: mailop mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> On 
Behalf Of Laura Atkins
Sent: lundi 19 novembre 2018 11:25
To: Michael Wise mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>>
Cc: mailop mailto:mailop@mailop.org>>
Subject: Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted


On 16 Nov 2018, at 22:23, Michael Wise via mailop 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:

Per email, no, bad test.
But if they keep not opening it, and others are reporting it as spam (or other 
things), and especially if there’s no clear unsubscribe link … Bad Things will 
happen to the reputation.
Automatically in some places.

Yup. That’s one of those things I find hard to explain conceptually. Signals 
can modify each other. Signal A is neutral to slightly negative, Signal B is 
slightly negative, Signal C is neutral. But Signal A + Signal B is A*B not A+B. 
In the presence of Signal A then Signal C because extremely negative. Signal A, 
B and C all being present is an immediate block.

 And I agree, the machine should notice things like, this sender has been 
sending traffic to this recipient, and occasionally they open it, and 
occasionally they click a link, and they don’t report it as spam… that should 
build the reputation for that sender/recipient.

It works at some places. At other places their engine needs a bit of a tweak.

And hopefully, if wouldn’t matter which IP they were sending from, as long as 
the domain validated.

There are at least two major consumer providers where this is the case. There’s 
a third that puts more emphasis on IP reputation than the others.

(Some bits of this email contain forward-dreaming statements and wishes…)

Does this mean I can’t declare the Era of IP Reputation is over? There has been 
a pretty significant divergence in filters over the last few years and it’s 
making it challenging for folks to have one deliverability strategy that works 
for all ISPs.

(It’s just gone10am here and I already have 3 different “thought piece” blog 
posts working)

laura

--
Having an Email Crisis?  We can help! 800 823-9674

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com
(650) 437-0741

Email Delivery

Re: [mailop] Bigpond IB703 for genuine content over multiple domains

2018-11-19 Thread Tim C 

Hey Mailop,

I have made contact. (Once again mailing-lists to the rescue)

Cheers!

On 20/11/2018 16:27, Tim C wrote:

Hey Mailop,

I was hoping someone from bigpond could contact me offlist regarding 
multiple customers domains that are getting flagged as spam.


I have a few examples over the past weeks where they will be emailing 
back and forth and then (seemingly randomly) the next emails get 
flagged as spam.


I've tried emailing postmaster@ but have not had any success.

Cheers,

Tim



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[mailop] Bigpond IB703 for genuine content over multiple domains

2018-11-19 Thread Tim C 

Hey Mailop,

I was hoping someone from bigpond could contact me offlist regarding 
multiple customers domains that are getting flagged as spam.


I have a few examples over the past weeks where they will be emailing 
back and forth and then (seemingly randomly) the next emails get flagged 
as spam.


I've tried emailing postmaster@ but have not had any success.

Cheers,

Tim



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Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted

2018-11-19 Thread Laura Atkins 

> On 19 Nov 2018, at 14:16, Mathieu Bourdin  wrote:
> 
> >My problem is more when it doesn't work, while it should.
>  
> That’s not a problem, that’s our job description.
>  
> More seriously, as has been said before, the problem starts when the minimum 
> set of rules to abide to isn’t enough to get the reputation to grow 
> sufficiently.
> We have no issue with rules getting more strict, we just need to know if it’s 
> “new rules” or if it’s “old rules gone haywire”

Given how long they’ve been in place and some of the more public statements 
made by MS employees, I think treating this as “new rules” means a much faster 
path to the inbox. 

laura 


-- 
Having an Email Crisis?  We can help! 800 823-9674 

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com
(650) 437-0741  

Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog 







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Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted

2018-11-19 Thread Mathieu Bourdin 
>My problem is more when it doesn't work, while it should.

That’s not a problem, that’s our job description.

More seriously, as has been said before, the problem starts when the minimum 
set of rules to abide to isn’t enough to get the reputation to grow 
sufficiently.
We have no issue with rules getting more strict, we just need to know if it’s 
“new rules” or if it’s “old rules gone haywire”

Mathieu Bourdin


De : mailop  De la part de Benjamin BILLON
Envoyé : lundi 19 novembre 2018 12:13
À : Laura Atkins ; Michael Wise 

Cc : mailop 
Objet : Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted

> Does this mean I can’t declare the Era of IP Reputation is over?
No you can't, it has been explicitly said it's not over last month, in some 
meeting, by some major consumer provider.

This isn't a problem from my point of view, IPs or domains, the idea is to have 
an overall good reputation. Behave, and it'll work.

My problem is more when it doesn't work, while it should.

--
Benjamin

From: mailop mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> On 
Behalf Of Laura Atkins
Sent: lundi 19 novembre 2018 11:25
To: Michael Wise mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>>
Cc: mailop mailto:mailop@mailop.org>>
Subject: Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted


On 16 Nov 2018, at 22:23, Michael Wise via mailop 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:

Per email, no, bad test.
But if they keep not opening it, and others are reporting it as spam (or other 
things), and especially if there’s no clear unsubscribe link …
Bad Things will happen to the reputation.
Automatically in some places.

Yup. That’s one of those things I find hard to explain conceptually. Signals 
can modify each other. Signal A is neutral to slightly negative, Signal B is 
slightly negative, Signal C is neutral. But Signal A + Signal B is A*B not A+B. 
In the presence of Signal A then Signal C because extremely negative. Signal A, 
B and C all being present is an immediate block.

 And I agree, the machine should notice things like, this sender has been 
sending traffic to this recipient, and occasionally they open it, and 
occasionally they click a link, and they don’t report it as spam… that should 
build the reputation for that sender/recipient.

It works at some places. At other places their engine needs a bit of a tweak.

And hopefully, if wouldn’t matter which IP they were sending from, as long as 
the domain validated.

There are at least two major consumer providers where this is the case. There’s 
a third that puts more emphasis on IP reputation than the others.

(Some bits of this email contain forward-dreaming statements and wishes…)

Does this mean I can’t declare the Era of IP Reputation is over? There has been 
a pretty significant divergence in filters over the last few years and it’s 
making it challenging for folks to have one deliverability strategy that works 
for all ISPs.

(It’s just gone10am here and I already have 3 different “thought piece” blog 
posts working)

laura

--
Having an Email Crisis?  We can help! 800 823-9674

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com
(650) 437-0741

Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog






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Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted

2018-11-19 Thread Benjamin BILLON 
> Does this mean I can’t declare the Era of IP Reputation is over?
No you can't, it has been explicitly said it's not over last month, in some 
meeting, by some major consumer provider.

This isn't a problem from my point of view, IPs or domains, the idea is to have 
an overall good reputation. Behave, and it'll work.

My problem is more when it doesn't work, while it should.

--
Benjamin

From: mailop  On Behalf Of Laura Atkins
Sent: lundi 19 novembre 2018 11:25
To: Michael Wise 
Cc: mailop 
Subject: Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted


On 16 Nov 2018, at 22:23, Michael Wise via mailop 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:

Per email, no, bad test.
But if they keep not opening it, and others are reporting it as spam (or other 
things), and especially if there’s no clear unsubscribe link …
Bad Things will happen to the reputation.
Automatically in some places.

Yup. That’s one of those things I find hard to explain conceptually. Signals 
can modify each other. Signal A is neutral to slightly negative, Signal B is 
slightly negative, Signal C is neutral. But Signal A + Signal B is A*B not A+B. 
In the presence of Signal A then Signal C because extremely negative. Signal A, 
B and C all being present is an immediate block.


 And I agree, the machine should notice things like, this sender has been 
sending traffic to this recipient, and occasionally they open it, and 
occasionally they click a link, and they don’t report it as spam… that should 
build the reputation for that sender/recipient.

It works at some places. At other places their engine needs a bit of a tweak.


And hopefully, if wouldn’t matter which IP they were sending from, as long as 
the domain validated.

There are at least two major consumer providers where this is the case. There’s 
a third that puts more emphasis on IP reputation than the others.


(Some bits of this email contain forward-dreaming statements and wishes…)

Does this mean I can’t declare the Era of IP Reputation is over? There has been 
a pretty significant divergence in filters over the last few years and it’s 
making it challenging for folks to have one deliverability strategy that works 
for all ISPs.

(It’s just gone10am here and I already have 3 different “thought piece” blog 
posts working)

laura

--
Having an Email Crisis?  We can help! 800 823-9674

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com
(650) 437-0741

Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog






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Re: [mailop] Spamcop IP blacklisted

2018-11-19 Thread Laura Atkins 

> On 16 Nov 2018, at 22:23, Michael Wise via mailop  wrote:
> 
> Per email, no, bad test.
> But if they keep not opening it, and others are reporting it as spam (or 
> other things), and especially if there’s no clear unsubscribe link …
> Bad Things will happen to the reputation.
> Automatically in some places.

Yup. That’s one of those things I find hard to explain conceptually. Signals 
can modify each other. Signal A is neutral to slightly negative, Signal B is 
slightly negative, Signal C is neutral. But Signal A + Signal B is A*B not A+B. 
In the presence of Signal A then Signal C because extremely negative. Signal A, 
B and C all being present is an immediate block. 

>  And I agree, the machine should notice things like, this sender has been 
> sending traffic to this recipient, and occasionally they open it, and 
> occasionally they click a link, and they don’t report it as spam… that should 
> build the reputation for that sender/recipient.

It works at some places. At other places their engine needs a bit of a tweak. 

> And hopefully, if wouldn’t matter which IP they were sending from, as long as 
> the domain validated.

There are at least two major consumer providers where this is the case. There’s 
a third that puts more emphasis on IP reputation than the others.  

> (Some bits of this email contain forward-dreaming statements and wishes…)

Does this mean I can’t declare the Era of IP Reputation is over? There has been 
a pretty significant divergence in filters over the last few years and it’s 
making it challenging for folks to have one deliverability strategy that works 
for all ISPs. 

(It’s just gone10am here and I already have 3 different “thought piece” blog 
posts working) 

laura

-- 
Having an Email Crisis?  We can help! 800 823-9674 

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com
(650) 437-0741  

Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog 







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