Re: [mailop] Issue with Mailop 'From' header
It's horrible that we need to resort to this. But nice. Thanks for sharing, Chris On 2019-08-15 at 20:15 -0400, Luke via mailop wrote: > This seems like a reasonable work around :p > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 7:19 PM Chris Adams via mailop > wrote: > > Once upon a time, Grant Taylor > said: > > On 8/15/19 11:17 AM, Mark Milhollan via mailop wrote: > > >perhaps a way can be found for your MUA to help you > > > > It's a complete hack. > > > > But I use procmail to doctor messages as they come into my > mailbox. > > I mostly add List-Post: header if it doesn't exist and rely > on my > > MUA's Reply List function. > > > > But it would be trivial to create additional rules to do > something > > like the following: > > > > 1) Check if the From: header is the list. > > 2) Check if the Reply-To: header is set. > > 3) Replace the list's From: header with a synthetic From: > based on > > the contents of the Reply-To:. > > Here's what I do (should work for most Mailman lists): > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail: Moving Email to 'spam' folder generates ISP complaint?
On 2019-08-16 at 10:47 +0200, Benoit Panizzon wrote: > He moves read emails he does not want to keep to the 'spam' folder, > because they disappear after a couple of days. > > So if he moved one by mistake, he can still find it and move it > back. Emails he does not care about get deleted automatically. > > He was absolutely not aware, that emails moved there would generate a > complaint. It's not just that moving the mails there may¹ generate a complaint to the sender. The real problem to the user is that by moving his mails to the Spam folder, he is telling Microsoft "this email is spam, I don't want it". So, the next time he receives a similar message to that, is mail provider may see "Oh, this email is very like this other that the customer marked as spam a few days ago" and thus (very sensibly) conclude that this other message is spam, too. Then that second email instead of arriving into the inbox may arrive for instance into the spam folder, which he may not check, and since -as mentioned- is cleared automatically, may mean he actually doesn't see such mail at all (it may have been unimportant one or very important, but it's not what he expected). (and for him the culprit will be the program, or the mail provider... ☹) Kind regards ¹ Even if the sender has a Feedback loop, Microsoft may decide not to send information about that event. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail: Moving Email to 'spam' folder generates ISP complaint?
On 16/08/2019 09:47, Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote: Yes, this is exactly the 'feature' one of the customers described to me. He moves read emails he does not want to keep to the 'spam' folder, because they disappear after a couple of days. Don't 'deleted' messages disappear after a few days as well? I honestly don't know because I've not used Hotmail for ages or Office365 at all, but it seems like a fairly standard thing to happen. -- Paul Smith Computer Services Tel: 01484 855800 Vat No: GB 685 6987 53 Sign up for news & updates at http://www.pscs.co.uk/go/subscribe ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail: Moving Email to 'spam' folder generates ISP complaint?
Hi Mathieu > I don't see that as a problem, I mean I completly understand the logic behind > that. If someone wants to organize their inbox they can create subfolders > easily, using the spam folder to "rearrange" your emails is just plain > stupid, especially as mails in the spam folder are deleted after 10 days. Yes, this is exactly the 'feature' one of the customers described to me. He moves read emails he does not want to keep to the 'spam' folder, because they disappear after a couple of days. So if he moved one by mistake, he can still find it and move it back. Emails he does not care about get deleted automatically. He was absolutely not aware, that emails moved there would generate a complaint. Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail: Moving Email to 'spam' folder generates ISP complaint?
Yeah, Microsoft has confirmed (can't remember if it was on this mailing list or during a conference) that any mail placed in the spam folder by the user (be it by clicking the "spam" button or by moving it by hand) triggers a complaint report. I don't see that as a problem, I mean I completly understand the logic behind that. If someone wants to organize their inbox they can create subfolders easily, using the spam folder to "rearrange" your emails is just plain stupid, especially as mails in the spam folder are deleted after 10 days. -Message d'origine- De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de Benoit Panizzon via mailop Envoyé : vendredi 16 août 2019 09:48 À : mailop@mailop.org Objet : [mailop] Hotmail: Moving Email to 'spam' folder generates ISP complaint? Hi List A couple of days ago we found out, that Mircosoft offers an Feedback Loop to received complaints about spam incidents. Perfect, one more source we can use to detect and block phished customers's account or trojanized devices. So we enabled this. That works good so far, but we also repeatedly get @hotmail.com customers reporting very obviously non spam mails. I was now in contact with two customers, both were puzzled about those spam reports we received and confirmed, they did not report those emails as spam. One customer is using Outlook for Android. Another one just plain Outlook, to access his Hotmail account. Both are moving read emails the don't want to keep to the 'spam' folder. So I wonder, does the simple act of moving of an email to the hotmail spam folder generate a spam complaint to the ISP? And possibly impact the sender IP reputation? No need to confirm 'yes this is spam I want it reported to the sender ISP' ? Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Hotmail: Moving Email to 'spam' folder generates ISP complaint?
Hey, On 16.08.19 09:47, Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote: > So I wonder, does the simple act of moving of an email to the hotmail > spam folder generate a spam complaint to the ISP? And possibly impact > the sender IP reputation? Yes. Because people are stupid and do not understand the difference between Spam/Junk and Trash. I am getting these all the time for regular emails for two reasons: 1. People don't understand the difference between Junk and Trash (sometimes I think it's a language / translation issue) 2. People think of email they don't care about as Spam. That's the main reasons why I will not trust customers to train spam filters. > No need to confirm 'yes this is spam I want it reported to the sender > ISP' ? Nope. Regards, Thomas Walter -- Thomas Walter Datenverarbeitungszentrale FH Münster - University of Applied Sciences - Corrensstr. 25, Raum B 112 48149 Münster Tel: +49 251 83 64 908 Fax: +49 251 83 64 910 www.fh-muenster.de/dvz/ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
[mailop] Hotmail: Moving Email to 'spam' folder generates ISP complaint?
Hi List A couple of days ago we found out, that Mircosoft offers an Feedback Loop to received complaints about spam incidents. Perfect, one more source we can use to detect and block phished customers's account or trojanized devices. So we enabled this. That works good so far, but we also repeatedly get @hotmail.com customers reporting very obviously non spam mails. I was now in contact with two customers, both were puzzled about those spam reports we received and confirmed, they did not report those emails as spam. One customer is using Outlook for Android. Another one just plain Outlook, to access his Hotmail account. Both are moving read emails the don't want to keep to the 'spam' folder. So I wonder, does the simple act of moving of an email to the hotmail spam folder generate a spam complaint to the ISP? And possibly impact the sender IP reputation? No need to confirm 'yes this is spam I want it reported to the sender ISP' ? Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
