Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Dave Warren via mailop]

On 2020-08-03 17:39, Jerry Cloe via mailop wrote:

It could also be argued as case law against other blacklist providers.


As I understand US law, defaults do not provide any form of precedent or 
other form of useful case law.


There might well be exceptions, of course.

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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[John Levine via mailop]

In article  you write:
>Right...the thing is that a default judgement is still a judgement.  And 
>because they are in the UK doesn't mean that it can't be enforced against 
>them.. in the UK.

They're not in the UK.  They're in Andorra:

https://www.spamhaus.org/faq/section/Organization#92

I don't expect this to go away any time soon:

https://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/query/SBL401826

R's,
John

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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[John Levine via mailop]

In article <28453035-f078-4311-8472-1aa190c45...@isipp.com> you write:
>
>
>> Did you not read what I quoted from the Spamhaus website? They are based
>> in Switzerland and Andorra, not the UK. My assumption is that there is
>> basically no chance of any U.S. ruling being enforced in either of these
>> two countries, unless it is related to a serious crime.
>
>From the judgement:
>
>"he plaintiff has shown that it has complied with the Hague Convention and 
>personally served a representative authorized to accept service
>of process in London."

The Spamhaus Project has not been located in the UK for a long time.
Whoever the process server handed his paperwork to, it wasn't
Spamhaus.

Ever since the E360 fiasco Spamhaus hasn't responded to US suits. They
have no assets in the US, and while responding to tell the US court
that it doesn't have jurisdiction is possible, it's expensive and not
very productive.

They really do have their office in Andorra and could be served or
sued there, but I doubt the kinds of organizations that are likely to
sue them would make much headway in Andorran courts.

It is my impression that for this particular suit, Spamhaus wasn't
even aware of it until someone noticed a press release.


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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Luke via mailop]

I'm pretty sure "spammers lie" holds up in court. :P

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 5:59 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

>
>
> >> From the judgement:
> >> "The plaintiff has shown that it has complied with the Hague Convention
> and personally served a representative authorized to accept service of
> process in London."
> >
> > Rule #1 of spam: Spammers lie.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> However, a court isn't going to take a party's word that they served
> someone, you are required to file a proof of service, which is served by
> someone *other* than the party (a process server).  Parties to a lawsuit
> are not allowed to serve process on the other party, for that very reason.
>
> Anne
>
> --
> Anne P. Mitchell,  Attorney at Law
> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
> CEO, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
> Advisor, Governor's Innovation Response Team Task Force
> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
> Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
> Location: Boulder, Colorado
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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop]

>> From the judgement:
>> "The plaintiff has shown that it has complied with the Hague Convention and 
>> personally served a representative authorized to accept service of process 
>> in London."
> 
> Rule #1 of spam: Spammers lie.

Absolutely.

However, a court isn't going to take a party's word that they served someone, 
you are required to file a proof of service, which is served by someone *other* 
than the party (a process server).  Parties to a lawsuit are not allowed to 
serve process on the other party, for that very reason.

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell,  Attorney at Law
Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
CEO, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
Advisor, Governor's Innovation Response Team Task Force
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Location: Boulder, Colorado
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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Jay Hennigan via mailop]

On 8/3/20 17:31, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop wrote:




Did you not read what I quoted from the Spamhaus website? They are based
in Switzerland and Andorra, not the UK. My assumption is that there is
basically no chance of any U.S. ruling being enforced in either of these
two countries, unless it is related to a serious crime.


 From the judgement:

"he plaintiff has shown that it has complied with the Hague Convention and 
personally served a representative authorized to accept service of process in 
London."


Rule #1 of spam: Spammers lie.

According to the article, the plaintiff is in BK due to ripping off 
another company to the tune of $11.2 million. I certainly wouldn't 
consider a little "sewer service" beyond someone like that.


--
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop]

>> Did you not read what I quoted from the Spamhaus website? They are based
>> in Switzerland and Andorra, not the UK. My assumption is that there is
>> basically no chance of any U.S. ruling being enforced in either of these
>> two countries, unless it is related to a serious crime.

I should elaborate:  Spamhaus has (had?) always had offices in London.  Perhaps 
they have moved primary operations to Switzerland an Andorra, however that 
doesn't mean that they don't still have a presence in the UK, and given that 
they were served *in* the UK, that suggests that they do, in fact, still 
maintain a presence in the UK.  Now, I don't know that for certain, but I *do* 
know for certain that they were served in the UK (according to the judgement).
> 


> From the judgement:
> 
> "The plaintiff has shown that it has complied with the Hague Convention and 
> personally served a representative authorized to accept service of process in 
> London."
> 
> Anne
> 
> --
> Anne P. Mitchell,  Attorney at Law
> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
> CEO, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
> Advisor, Governor's Innovation Response Team Task Force
> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
> Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
> Location: Boulder, Colorado
> 


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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop]

> Did you not read what I quoted from the Spamhaus website? They are based
> in Switzerland and Andorra, not the UK. My assumption is that there is
> basically no chance of any U.S. ruling being enforced in either of these
> two countries, unless it is related to a serious crime.

From the judgement:

"he plaintiff has shown that it has complied with the Hague Convention and 
personally served a representative authorized to accept service of process in 
London."

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell,  Attorney at Law
Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
CEO, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
Advisor, Governor's Innovation Response Team Task Force
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Location: Boulder, Colorado


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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Ralph Seichter via mailop]

* Anne P. Mitchell:

> the thing is that a default judgement is still a judgement. And
> because they are in the UK doesn't mean that it can't be enforced
> against them.. in the UK.

Did you not read what I quoted from the Spamhaus website? They are based
in Switzerland and Andorra, not the UK. My assumption is that there is
basically no chance of any U.S. ruling being enforced in either of these
two countries, unless it is related to a serious crime.

-Ralph

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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop]

> default judgment, Spamhaus is not a US organization or wasn't properly served 
> or whatever.


Right...the thing is that a default judgement is still a judgement.  And 
because they are in the UK doesn't mean that it can't be enforced against 
them.. in the UK.  Here are two good articles about enforcing U.S. judgements 
in the UK, in case anyone wants to read them or, you know, has insomnia:

https://www.penningtonslaw.com/news-publications/latest-news/2019/transatlantic-litigation-enforcing-us-judgments-in-england-and-wales

https://www.bclplaw.com/images/content/2/2/v2/2220/Bulletin-Enforcing-US-Judgments-American-version-August-2014.pdf

Note that the court has given DBUSA 30 days to come up with an accounting of 
how the Spamhaus listing impacted DBUSA monetarily.  Also note that DBUSA is 
now in Chapter 11 bankruptcy;  it will be interesting to see whether they 
attempt to attribute that to the SH listing.

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell,  Attorney at Law
Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
CEO, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)



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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Jerry Cloe via mailop]

That might be a dangerous assumption (admittedly I'm no lawyer) that this means 
zip. It may not mean much against Spamhaus directly, but any kind of injunction 
against them could in theory be used against anyone who uses Spamhaus services. 
It could also be argued as case law against other blacklist providers.

 
I don't know who DatabaseUSA is, from the description really sounds like an 
email marketer, aka spammer, so this could potentially force mail providers to 
accept their spam.


 
-Original message-
From:Ralph Seichter via mailop 
Sent:Mon 08-03-2020 06:23 pm
Subject:Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The 
Spamhaus Project
To:mailop@mailop.org; 
* Brandon Long via mailop:


  "Founded in 1998, Spamhaus is based in Geneva, Switzerland, and
  Andorra la Vella, Andorra [...]"

>From what I understand, DatabaseUSA's "win" therefore means zip.

 
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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Brian Toresdahl via mailop]

Whether or not they were, the Court considered Spamhaus served:

> At the first hearing on March 12, 2020, an issue arose on whether the
> plaintiff had properly served the
> defendant under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 4. The plaintiff was
> granted leave to submit a brief on the
> issue. See Filing No. 28, Brief. The plaintiff has shown that it has
> complied with the Hague Convention
> and personally served a representative authorized to accept service of
> process in London. Id. To the
> extent that the Court has an affirmative obligation to make a finding that
> the defendant was served
> consistent with the Hague Convention before entering default judgment, the
> Court is satisfied that defendant
> Spamhaus was properly served


Based on previous cases referenced in Anne's link, Spamhaus does not always
reply to defamation cases. In the past, their non-reply and losing by
default has not caused them to pay damages. So maybe it's a winning a
strategy, if they're even aware of the cases.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:23 PM Ralph Seichter via mailop 
wrote:

> * Brandon Long via mailop:
>
> > default judgment, Spamhaus is not a US organization or wasn't properly
> > served or whatever.
>
> Looks like it. https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ states:
>
>   "Founded in 1998, Spamhaus is based in Geneva, Switzerland, and
>   Andorra la Vella, Andorra [...]"
>
> From what I understand, DatabaseUSA's "win" therefore means zip.
>
> -Ralph
>
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-- 

Brian Toresdahl

Product Management

brian.toresd...@nextroll.com 
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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Ralph Seichter via mailop]

* Brandon Long via mailop:

> default judgment, Spamhaus is not a US organization or wasn't properly
> served or whatever.

Looks like it. https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ states:

  "Founded in 1998, Spamhaus is based in Geneva, Switzerland, and
  Andorra la Vella, Andorra [...]"

From what I understand, DatabaseUSA's "win" therefore means zip.

-Ralph

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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop]

Following up on my own post, it was a default judgement (we just posted the 
memorandum here:

https://www.theinternetpatrol.com/databaseusa-wins-case-against-spamhaus-in-matter-of-databaseusa-v-spamhaus-in-federal-court/

..and will be adding our own commentary shortly).

DatabaseUSA has been given 30 days to determine and account for monetary 
damages and file that with the court.

Anne

> On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.  
> wrote:
> 
> This is disturbing, although I don't know any of the back story.  Is there 
> anything of which anybody is aware that would somehow change how concerning 
> this is?
> 
> --
> 
> DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project
> 
> DatabaseUSA, a provider of data and email marketing services, has won a 
> victory over The Spamhaus Project.
> 
> A federal court found that Spamhaus defamed the company and interfered with 
> its business relations by “wrongfully listing DatabaseUSA.com on Spamhaus’s 
> domain block list from 2017 to the present.” 
> 
> DatabaseUSA suffered “damage to its reputation, a loss of customers, and loss 
> of potential revenue as a result of Spamhaus’s defamation and tortious 
> interference,” wrote Senior U.S. District Judge Joseph F. Bataillon in an 
> opinion on file with the U.S. District Court for the District of Nebraska. 
> 
> https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/354343/databaseusa-wins-case-against-the-spamhaus-project.html
> 
> --
> 
> Anne
> 


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Re: [mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Brandon Long via mailop]

https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCOURTS-ned-8_19-cv-00423/context

default judgment, Spamhaus is not a US organization or wasn't properly
served or whatever.

Brandon

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 3:49 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

> This is disturbing, although I don't know any of the back story.  Is there
> anything of which anybody is aware that would somehow change how concerning
> this is?
>
> --
>
> DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project
>
> DatabaseUSA, a provider of data and email marketing services, has won a
> victory over The Spamhaus Project.
>
> A federal court found that Spamhaus defamed the company and interfered
> with its business relations by “wrongfully listing DatabaseUSA.com on
> Spamhaus’s domain block list from 2017 to the present.”
>
> DatabaseUSA suffered “damage to its reputation, a loss of customers, and
> loss of potential revenue as a result of Spamhaus’s defamation and tortious
> interference,” wrote Senior U.S. District Judge Joseph F. Bataillon in an
> opinion on file with the U.S. District Court for the District of Nebraska.
>
>
> https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/354343/databaseusa-wins-case-against-the-spamhaus-project.html
>
> --
>
> Anne
>
>
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[mailop] This is..Concerning: DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

[Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop]

This is disturbing, although I don't know any of the back story.  Is there 
anything of which anybody is aware that would somehow change how concerning 
this is?

--

DatabaseUSA Wins Case Against The Spamhaus Project

DatabaseUSA, a provider of data and email marketing services, has won a victory 
over The Spamhaus Project.

A federal court found that Spamhaus defamed the company and interfered with its 
business relations by “wrongfully listing DatabaseUSA.com on Spamhaus’s domain 
block list from 2017 to the present.” 

DatabaseUSA suffered “damage to its reputation, a loss of customers, and loss 
of potential revenue as a result of Spamhaus’s defamation and tortious 
interference,” wrote Senior U.S. District Judge Joseph F. Bataillon in an 
opinion on file with the U.S. District Court for the District of Nebraska. 

https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/354343/databaseusa-wins-case-against-the-spamhaus-project.html

--

Anne


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Re: [mailop] Gmail IMAP xyzzy ?

[Aaron C. de Bruyn via mailop]

I have the same combination on my luggage...

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 3:14 PM Brandon Long via mailop 
wrote:

> By a complete coincidence, Don Woods worked on Gmail related stuff after
> we acquired Postini... but didn't add this code.
>
> Brandon
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 3:45 PM John Levine via mailop 
> wrote:
>
>> When I connect to Gmail's IMAP server, one of the capbilities it
>> advertises is "xyzzy".  Anyone know what that is?
>>
>> I know the etymology (same place as plugh) but what's it supposed to do?
>>
>> Signed,
>> Wondering
>>
>> ___
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Re: [mailop] Gmail IMAP xyzzy ?

[Brandon Long via mailop]

By a complete coincidence, Don Woods worked on Gmail related stuff after we
acquired Postini... but didn't add this code.

Brandon

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 3:45 PM John Levine via mailop 
wrote:

> When I connect to Gmail's IMAP server, one of the capbilities it
> advertises is "xyzzy".  Anyone know what that is?
>
> I know the etymology (same place as plugh) but what's it supposed to do?
>
> Signed,
> Wondering
>
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Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Need help with Microsoft S3150 and Yahoo TSS09 on recently transferred /24

[Michael Wise via mailop]

To the best of my knowledge, S3150 is not Office365 affecting.
The IP didn’t show up on any blocks for the Office365 side of the house when I 
checked.
So I’m unsure of your point?

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Open a ticket for Hotmail ?

From: Chris Woods 
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:36 AM
To: Michael Wise 
Cc: mailop 
Subject: Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Need help with Microsoft S3150 and Yahoo TSS09 
on recently transferred /24


On Sat, 1 Aug 2020, 03:02 Michael Wise via mailop, 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:

Let’s just say that it is quite typical that, “FreeMail” mail providers such as 
HotMail and … others … are typically not classical Profit Centers.
Some try and fund their services with ads.
Some … try and run it for the, “Good Will” (in the Financial Sense).
Few charge for a standard mailbox.
But to think that such an enterprise would hire thousands, if not tens of 
thousands, of folks to provide the necessary levels of technical support …
Not happening.

I agree completely about not subsidising premium support for free users. But 
for EO/365 customers, issues like automated misclassification of incoming 
business email, or messages in conversations being autojunked from users' 
mailboxes, those are business affecting.

If ML algorithms are what's affecting delivery to paid customers, shouldn't the 
support process reflect their priority as paid tenants?

Trying to encourage a large organisation to raise deliverability problems with 
their MS support can be frustrating. It can be hard to contact an 
organisation's mailadmin, particularly if they outsource IT and email support. 
If you rely on a user in an org to escalate your delivery issues to their IT 
department, they can sometimes hit a wall when their own support misunderstands 
or can't triage the enquiry.

I've spent days finding contacts in businesses who can help with org-wide 365 
delivery issues. Even then, it only seems to fix the problem for that tenant. 
In my experience, when problems occur the current mitigation/review process 
isn't adequate, but I don't think adding thousands of human agents is realistic 
either.
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Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: Microsoft contact - JMRP issue

[Michael Wise via mailop]

I'm really not in a position to assist with JMRP issues.

You pretty much have to go thru the web-based resources.

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Open a ticket for Hotmail ?



-Original Message-
From: mailop  On Behalf Of Bressier Simon via mailop
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:30 AM
To: Al Iverson 
Cc: mailop 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [mailop] Microsoft contact - JMRP issue



Hey,



Yes the issue here is not the registration itself on JMRP for the /18, it will 
be exploded indeed in /24. But the range is still partly enrolled on few JMRP 
programs from the previous owner(s), and we can't enroll the range on our own 
JMRP if that IPs are still on theirs.

I've contacted the guys from that other companies... but dunno if I can expect 
some help from them yet, or if that contact addresses are even still in use.



That's why it would be more efficient via a MS folk :)





Le lun. 3 août 2020 à 17:12, Al Iverson 
mailto:aiver...@wombatmail.com>> a écrit :

>

> If you want to learn from my past fumbling -- I register everything

> with SNDS and JMRP as /24 (or smaller), nothing bigger. Once upon a

> time I found that sometimes it seemed to treat a submission as though

> it were only a /24 even though it was a larger range (/18 or /20).

> That may/may not still be an issue, I have no idea, since long ago I

> decided to treat every range as if it were /24 or smaller. Which means

> you'd be entering it as 64 /24s instead of one /18, if I did my math

> correctly. Fun? No. Does it work? Yes...I've not had any sort of issue

> with JMRP for a long time.

>

> (Well, I've had two unrelated issues with JMRP periodically, not

> related to this. One is, sometimes when we give a client access to

> SNDS data, they try to modify the JRMP settings for a range. We warn

> clients that we monitor for this and revoke access of anybody caught

> doing this. Two, Proofpoint seemed to be eating new SNDS access

> verification requests, but only for a new range in RIPE. Never figured

> out why only those ranges were affected, but we were able to whitelist

> around it.)

>

> You might have a hard time finding somebody at MS who can actually

> assist with an SNDS/JMRP issue. Good luck!

>

> BTW, treating all your ranges as /24 makes doing IP allocation math

> and feeding ranges to other services more simple, too. I now do it for

> all ISP FBLs and registrations (CSA, WP.pl,. JMRP, Return Path

> multi-FBL, etc.) and it means I no longer have to think about CIDR in

> sizes other than /24 (and I don't have to worry about somebody else

> being able to do the math, either).

>

> Cheers,

> Al Iverson

>

> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:38 AM Bressier Simon via mailop

> mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:

> >

> > Hey Michael or any other MS folk,

> >

> > Could you please contact me off list for some help on a JMRP program for a 
> > /18 registration?

> >

> > Thank you very much in advance,

> >

> > Simon, Head of Deliverability at Sendinblue

> > ___

> > mailop mailing list

> > mailop@mailop.org

> > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fch

> > illi.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=0

> > 2%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C169cabe96aad409ec02c08d837c2

> > ae88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637320656581702539

> > &sdata=RKBx6s0r07%2BJztHpdLzjGRh2zDxCUIZJXNFb7FIstN0%3D&rese

> > rved=0

>

>

>

> --

> Al Iverson // Wombatmail // Chicago

> Song a day!

> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.

> wombatmail.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C16

> 9cabe96aad409ec02c08d837c2ae88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%

> 7C0%7C637320656581702539&sdata=7HR86sAYlQymUp1UssW3mlRS%2BINFD4q%2

> FJMC9HPeV4ig%3D&reserved=0 Deliverability!

> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fspam

> resource.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C169c

> abe96aad409ec02c08d837c2ae88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C

> 0%7C637320656581702539&sdata=0jxNIfjEIKFAU9iQEYOo1PlTxwFmcJdzSwrj9

> yarKOg%3D&reserved=0 And DNS Tools too!

> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fxnnd

> .com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C169cabe96aad

> 409ec02c08d837c2ae88%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C6373

> 20656581702539&sdata=QChDNUwAmiuDHYBEhx0d5FWB964wKjNgjd1wmHqN4j0%3

> D&reserved=0



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Re: [mailop] Microsoft contact - JMRP issue

[Bressier Simon via mailop]

Hey,

Yes the issue here is not the registration itself on JMRP for the /18,
it will be exploded indeed in /24. But the range is still partly
enrolled on few JMRP programs from the previous owner(s), and we can't
enroll the range on our own JMRP if that IPs are still on theirs.
I've contacted the guys from that other companies... but dunno if I
can expect some help from them yet, or if that contact addresses are
even still in use.

That's why it would be more efficient via a MS folk :)


Le lun. 3 août 2020 à 17:12, Al Iverson  a écrit :
>
> If you want to learn from my past fumbling -- I register everything
> with SNDS and JMRP as /24 (or smaller), nothing bigger. Once upon a
> time I found that sometimes it seemed to treat a submission as though
> it were only a /24 even though it was a larger range (/18 or /20).
> That may/may not still be an issue, I have no idea, since long ago I
> decided to treat every range as if it were /24 or smaller. Which means
> you'd be entering it as 64 /24s instead of one /18, if I did my math
> correctly. Fun? No. Does it work? Yes...I've not had any sort of issue
> with JMRP for a long time.
>
> (Well, I've had two unrelated issues with JMRP periodically, not
> related to this. One is, sometimes when we give a client access to
> SNDS data, they try to modify the JRMP settings for a range. We warn
> clients that we monitor for this and revoke access of anybody caught
> doing this. Two, Proofpoint seemed to be eating new SNDS access
> verification requests, but only for a new range in RIPE. Never figured
> out why only those ranges were affected, but we were able to whitelist
> around it.)
>
> You might have a hard time finding somebody at MS who can actually
> assist with an SNDS/JMRP issue. Good luck!
>
> BTW, treating all your ranges as /24 makes doing IP allocation math
> and feeding ranges to other services more simple, too. I now do it for
> all ISP FBLs and registrations (CSA, WP.pl,. JMRP, Return Path
> multi-FBL, etc.) and it means I no longer have to think about CIDR in
> sizes other than /24 (and I don't have to worry about somebody else
> being able to do the math, either).
>
> Cheers,
> Al Iverson
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:38 AM Bressier Simon via mailop
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Michael or any other MS folk,
> >
> > Could you please contact me off list for some help on a JMRP program for a 
> > /18 registration?
> >
> > Thank you very much in advance,
> >
> > Simon, Head of Deliverability at Sendinblue
> > ___
> > mailop mailing list
> > mailop@mailop.org
> > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
>
>
>
> --
> Al Iverson // Wombatmail // Chicago
> Song a day! https://www.wombatmail.com
> Deliverability! https://spamresource.com
> And DNS Tools too! https://xnnd.com

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Re: [mailop] Microsoft contact - JMRP issue

[Al Iverson via mailop]

If you want to learn from my past fumbling -- I register everything
with SNDS and JMRP as /24 (or smaller), nothing bigger. Once upon a
time I found that sometimes it seemed to treat a submission as though
it were only a /24 even though it was a larger range (/18 or /20).
That may/may not still be an issue, I have no idea, since long ago I
decided to treat every range as if it were /24 or smaller. Which means
you'd be entering it as 64 /24s instead of one /18, if I did my math
correctly. Fun? No. Does it work? Yes...I've not had any sort of issue
with JMRP for a long time.

(Well, I've had two unrelated issues with JMRP periodically, not
related to this. One is, sometimes when we give a client access to
SNDS data, they try to modify the JRMP settings for a range. We warn
clients that we monitor for this and revoke access of anybody caught
doing this. Two, Proofpoint seemed to be eating new SNDS access
verification requests, but only for a new range in RIPE. Never figured
out why only those ranges were affected, but we were able to whitelist
around it.)

You might have a hard time finding somebody at MS who can actually
assist with an SNDS/JMRP issue. Good luck!

BTW, treating all your ranges as /24 makes doing IP allocation math
and feeding ranges to other services more simple, too. I now do it for
all ISP FBLs and registrations (CSA, WP.pl,. JMRP, Return Path
multi-FBL, etc.) and it means I no longer have to think about CIDR in
sizes other than /24 (and I don't have to worry about somebody else
being able to do the math, either).

Cheers,
Al Iverson

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:38 AM Bressier Simon via mailop
 wrote:
>
> Hey Michael or any other MS folk,
>
> Could you please contact me off list for some help on a JMRP program for a 
> /18 registration?
>
> Thank you very much in advance,
>
> Simon, Head of Deliverability at Sendinblue
> ___
> mailop mailing list
> mailop@mailop.org
> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop



-- 
Al Iverson // Wombatmail // Chicago
Song a day! https://www.wombatmail.com
Deliverability! https://spamresource.com
And DNS Tools too! https://xnnd.com

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[mailop] Microsoft contact - JMRP issue

[Bressier Simon via mailop]

Hey Michael or any other MS folk,

Could you please contact me off list for some help on a JMRP program for a
/18 registration?

Thank you very much in advance,

Simon, Head of Deliverability at Sendinblue
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