Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that Paul Gregg via mailop  said:
>3rd Party Email security provider - using Proofpoint Essentials*
>- *disclaimer - I work for them, 3rd party/partner resellers do resell
>  it pretty cheaply

Oh, that should work fine, since the rest of the world sees Proofpoint as your 
mail host.

If you want to go that route with a spam filter proxy, there are plenty of 
options like
Mailchannels and Mimecast.  The cheapest credible one I know is Tucows, if you 
just want
the spam filtering, that's about $2/mailbox/yr via resellers.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Paul Gregg via mailop]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 01:19:47PM -0500, John Levine via mailop wrote:
> It appears that Sinclair, John via mailop  said:
> > I have the hardware and the bandwidth, ...
> 
> More importantly, do you have a static IP with matching forward and reverse 
> DNS that
> is not in the PBL or otherwise policy blocked for sending mail?
> 
> By the time you go through all the hassle of managing spam filters and 
> getting your
> IP warmed up, Fastmail at $50/yr/mailbox looks pretty attractive.
> 
> If you can find someone who resells Tucows' white label e-mail, they have a 
> pretty
> good product for about $10/mailbox/yr for 5GB, $20 for 10GB, $30 for 15GB.
> 
> R's,
> John

I've run my own mailserver at home, usually on a dynamic IP, for over 25
years now. Started with qmail (Hi John), now postfix / dovecot and
letsencrypt for the certs.

It's definitely gotten more difficult to successfully do this of late,
but I've a solid system now. Might not be what anyone wants or needs,
but who knows, if it helps someone...

Local server in the house (dell r720xd - too big, but heh)
- Custom domains for me and all family members (this is usually what stops
  me hosting on another provider).
- Obviously as much disk as I want to throw at it.
- Connected to my DSL provider using a dynamic IP.
- Letsencrypt generates the certs

VPS on OVH (usually this is a bad idea, but actually this step isn't
necessary)
- Runs postfix, and a dyndns server
- Local server has a cron job to contact this vps to inform it 'this is
  my IP' and 'here is my certificate fingerprint'
- Server also runs a firewall and only allows this dynamic IP to talk to
  it and the internet facing mail service.
- None of this bit is strictly necessary - except a dynamic dns service
  (and you'd need to use SMTP Auth config from LocalServer to ESP)

3rd Party Email security provider - using Proofpoint Essentials*
- *disclaimer - I work for them, 3rd party/partner resellers do resell
  it pretty cheaply
- MX for my domains goes to Essentials, Inbound traffic is sent to my
  interim VPS
- Outbound email is received from the VPS and Essentials takes care of
  deliverability out to everyone else.

The VPS middle layer isn't really necessary - I just prefer it as it
means I've a buffer in case Proofpoint caches the DNS a little too long
and I can use it to validate the cert on the local server when it
connects (should my dynamic IP change and I don't send my email to some
rando).

So I concur with John... it is perfectly possible to host yourself if
you can get past things like 'dialup rbls' and other poor reputation
blocks.  It's often easier just to let established providers do that
bit.

PG
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[mailop--- via mailop]

Hello,

For just Mailserver: https://excision.bsd.ac/install/
For long story for a mailserver: https://workaround.org/ispmail/bullseye/
As a WUI I would take horde with calendar, addressbook, freebusy URL ...
Offtopic, like gmail for your own domain:
https://admin.yandex.ru/select-organization?productId=free=promo=mail360

Best Regards,
Juri Grabowski
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Noel Butler via mailop]

On 23/02/2022 23:10, Sinclair, John via mailop wrote:

Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days. 
 Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom 
domain, not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to 
rolling and hosting my own email server for the family.  What's the 
best of breed these days for small/micro servers hosting five-ish email 
accounts, probably no more than 1TB total - looking for 
as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, might 
even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file 
storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a 
free gmail account as a client - looking to only have the family have 
to keep one username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out 
Google entirely.  I have the hardware and the bandwidth, it's more of a 
what OS/email/webmail is best of breed these days, not only for 
robustness/security, but also something that can have at least some 
attempt at blocking most of the spam…


Thoughts?
___


You can get a small cheap reliable VPS for around 10 USD a year from 
likes of host.us that would be perfect for what you want, install 
postfix, dovecot and you're up and running if all you want is a personal 
domain.


You can add on amavisd/spamassassin/clamav to deal with vermin as you 
get time, you can then add opendkim and dmarc also as your time permits.


As has already been stated, your initial setup should always involve 
setting  your matching DNS correctly, create SPF records, and use a few 
DNSBL's to stop the rot.


- That said, if your internet is reliable, I've run my personal mail 
server on a spare PC at home for family, extended family, and a few 
friends, for decades with next to no issues, also means if I changed 
employers I don't have to have downtime moving it all the time, I'm 
always sus of those who change IP's all the time, appears they have been 
up to no good.


--
Regards,
Noel Butler

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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Slavko via mailop]

Ahoj,

Dňa Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:10:56 + "Sinclair, John via mailop"
 napísal:

> to rolling and hosting my own email server for the family.  What's

I use own mail server for some years (5 or so), using exim (+ rspamd
now) and dovecot (+ xapian FTS & roundcube) on Debian Linux, which
starts for one user only, but then some friends and family members want
account too and now are satisfied, without any issues with
deliverability of emails, even to big providers, which are know to be
restrictive (Microsoft & Google in my case).

Having own server gives more privacy, as one don't need to share info
with email providers and proves great possibilities to customize SPAM
filter, as here is only small number of users.

But, on other side, one have to have some knowledge in nowadays email's
word, as properly deal with PTR, SPF, DKIM, DMARC, TLS, etc. And
requires some knowledge. And one must be prepared to attacks - i deal
with ongoing distributed login attack for more than 8 months, and today
i am under some SPAM bomb attack, with about 2000 (yet) attempts to
send the same scam email to (existing & not existing) users from "their"
address. Another tasks, which one have to do includes monitoring,
backups, regular security upgrades and other standard admin things.

If you have not enough enthusiasm and/or knowledge to play with it, stay
with some provider...

But when you are brave (and IMO one have to) to do it itself, do not
worry, it is not as hard (while it is not setup and forget) as it is
described by some email providers in its PR articles and one cat get
great experience and privacy, with full customization to own needs.

When you abandon ClamAV idea, you do not need to worry about server
power and for small amount of users (emails) can be managed even on very
cheap hardware (i even starts it on Raspberry Pi 2, but that was bad
idea).

regards

-- 
Slavko
https://www.slavino.sk


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Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: Best email server for home use...

[Erwin Harte via mailop]

On 2/23/22 5:27 AM, Mary via mailop wrote:
> [...]
> I use them with Linode's smallest offering ($5 for a 1GB server) as a hosting 
> platform. But can't run ClamAV anti-virus because it requires at least 4GB of 
> ram to load its default data set.

For what it's worth, in my experience ClamAV/clamd becomes 100x happier
when I give it some swap into which to offload its "toxic waste":

$ ps u $(pgrep clamd)
USER   PID %CPU %MEMVSZ   RSS TTY  STAT START   TIME COMMAND
clamav1136  0.0 24.1 1645912 483592 ?  Ssl Jan19  21:27
/usr/sbin/clamd --foreground=true

$ free -m
   totalusedfree  shared buff/cache
available
Mem:   1955 849 142 0 963 924
Swap:  20471156 891

Not the smallest AWS instance, but not far off (and I could possibly go
down a notch):

$ curl -s http://169.254.169.254/latest/meta-data/instance-type; echo
t3a.small

My $0.02,
Erwin

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[mailop] Anyone know anyone from Profihost?

[Brie via mailop]

Hi all,

Any of you all know anyone from Profihost?

I want to give them a chance to fix their SSH/FTP/whatever brute force 
attack notification server before I bring out the banhammer and start 
swinging wide on my blocklist.


They've been flooding me for over 24 hours with notices even though the 
situation has been dealt with, and are completely ignoring emails sent 
to abuse/support@ and n...@profihost.ag, as well as me rejecting their 
e-mails.


If you do, please have them contact me ASAP.  Thanks.

--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that Sinclair, John via mailop  said:
> I have the hardware and the bandwidth, ...

More importantly, do you have a static IP with matching forward and reverse DNS 
that
is not in the PBL or otherwise policy blocked for sending mail?

By the time you go through all the hassle of managing spam filters and getting 
your
IP warmed up, Fastmail at $50/yr/mailbox looks pretty attractive.

If you can find someone who resells Tucows' white label e-mail, they have a 
pretty
good product for about $10/mailbox/yr for 5GB, $20 for 10GB, $30 for 15GB.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Bryan Frimin via mailop]

"Sinclair, John via mailop"  writes:

> Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.
> Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom
> domain, not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling
> and hosting my own email server for the family.  What's the best of
> breed these days for small/micro servers hosting five-ish email
> accounts, probably no more than 1TB total - looking for
> as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, might
> even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file
> storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free
> gmail account as a client - looking to only have the family have to keep
> one username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google
> entirely.  I have the hardware and the bandwidth, it's more of a what
> OS/email/webmail is best of breed these days, not only for
> robustness/security, but also something that can have at least some
> attempt at blocking most of the spam...

I've begun with OpenSMTP, but I've switched to Postfix as the primary
developer has stopped actively working on it. I now run Postfix,
Dovecot, Solr (for the search), and Rspamd, and it's working perfectly!

I don't use any webmail, but I know Roundcube is good if you want a
Gmail-like experience.

Regards,

-- 
Bryan Frimin
https://www.frimin.fr
br...@frimin.fr
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) via mailop]

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen via mailop writes:

> If you have a reasonable insight into unix things, you could do worse =
> than going with OpenBSD and an OpenSMTPD setup along the lines of what =
> Aaron Poffenberger describes in his tutorial here: =
> https://vdocuments.site/opensmtpd-for-the-real-world-mail-server-tutorial-=
> introductionabackground.html =

Amen.  I've run OpenBSD + Dovecot for years and years, and it Just Works.

The smtpd configuration will be a bit different from anything you've
come across before, but it's pretty easy to google your way to a
working configuration, and there's lots of help available from the
m...@openbsd.org mailing list.

I find the out-of-the-box installation with greylisting enabled does
a pretty good job of spam eradication all on its own.  I haven't run
spamassassin for ages now.  The one thing I do wish for is better
SPF integration.  If I ever find some free cycles I plan to fix that.

--lyndon
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop]

Dnia 23.02.2022 o godz. 13:10:56 Sinclair, John via mailop pisze:
> hosting my own email server for the family.  What's the best of breed
> these days for small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts,
> probably no more than 1TB total - looking for
> as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, might even

Why are you looking for a webmail close to Gmail? Gmail's webmail interface
is one of the worst possible. It is very inefficient to operate,
counter-intuitive, hides many important information from the user etc., not
mentioning that it is simply ugly. There are many much nicer and
more user-friendly webmails, like for example already mentioned Roundcube.

Here I found an overview of various webmail apps, with screenshots of some.
You can pick something that suits you:
https://medevel.com/15-selfhosted-os-webmail-clients/
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen via mailop]

> 23. feb. 2022 kl. 14:10 skrev Sinclair, John via mailop :
> 
> Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.  
> Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, 
> not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting 
> my own email server for the family.  What’s the best of breed these days for 
> small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 
> 1TB total – looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access 
> for mobile, might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for 
> file storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free 
> gmail account as a client – looking to only have the family have to keep one 
> username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely.  I 
> have the hardware and the bandwidth, it’s more of a what OS/email/webmail is 
> best of breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also 
> something that can have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam…

If you have a reasonable insight into unix things, you could do worse than 
going with OpenBSD and an OpenSMTPD setup along the lines of what Aaron 
Poffenberger describes in his tutorial here: 
https://vdocuments.site/opensmtpd-for-the-real-world-mail-server-tutorial-introductionabackground.html
 

 (originally a BSDCan session I believe).

I’ve been running similar setups for years (but with exim as the MTA mainly for 
inertia reasons), documented mainly in articles you can find via the first link 
in my signature. The most comprehensive is perhaps 
https://bsdly.blogspot.com/2014/02/effective-spam-and-malware.html 
, others 
will be tagged with keywords like spam, mail, spamd, smtp and so forth.

All the best,
Peter


—
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.






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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop]

23. Februar 2022 14:10, "Sinclair, John via mailop" mailto:mailop@mailop.org?to=%22Sinclair,%20John%20via%20mailop%22%20)>
 schrieb:
Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days. 
Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, not 
coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting my own 
email server for the family. What’s the best of breed these days for 
small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 1TB 
total – looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for 
mobile, might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file 
storage/sharing. Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free gmail 
account as a client – looking to only have the family have to keep one username 
(on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely. I have the 
hardware and the bandwidth, it’s more of a what OS/email/webmail is best of 
breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also something that can 
have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam…

Thoughts?

I'm a UNIX/Linux guy, so naturally I'd favor a solution built on Linux or 
FreeBSD (although my personal experience is restricted to Linux these days).

For a full featured modern package with reasonable spam resistance I can vouch 
for Mailu (https://mailu.io) which requires Docker as a basis. Under the hood, 
this is postfix as MTA, dovecot for IMAP/POP3, rspamd as anti-spam solution (I 
think the SPF/DKIM/DMARC stuff is located there, too), Roundcube or RainLoop as 
webmail (both pretty usable, probably not as feature-rich as GMail), PostgreSQL 
for account persistence, and REDIS as memory cache mostly for the rspamd 
engine. Supports Letsencrypt out of the box, of course.
It does take some effort to set up the basics right (Docker and configuration) 
but then runs very reliably and is a breeze to manage.
Sadly, it does not integrate Mailman, so I had to do that manually, which is 
kind of a pain.

For a significantly smaller solution, you would need to install the parts from 
scratch (all are available in the standard package repositories AFAIK) and wire 
them together manually. User management is quite a bit more tedious then, but 
you may be more flexible.

Cheers,
Hans-Martin
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Mary via mailop]

At work, we use this little known control panel, for creating such email/web 
servers:
https://gitlab.com/noumenia/aetolos

Roundcube is the default webmail client these days, I am not sure if its a 
"replacement" for gmail, but it is very efficient and works great on mobile 
devices:
https://roundcube.net/

Postfix+dovecot is the most common combination for running your own services, 
once combined they offer pretty much all the features most people need 
(SMTP/IMAP/POP3/etc):
http://www.postfix.org/
https://www.dovecot.org/

All of the above have been working for me for several decades without problems.

I use them with Linode's smallest offering ($5 for a 1GB server) as a hosting 
platform. But can't run ClamAV anti-virus because it requires at least 4GB of 
ram to load its default data set.




On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:10:56 + "Sinclair, John via mailop" 
 wrote:

> Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.  
> Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, 
> not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting 
> my own email server for the family.  What’s the best of breed these days for 
> small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 
> 1TB total – looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access 
> for mobile, might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for 
> file storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free 
> gmail account as a client – looking to only have the family have to keep one 
> username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely.  I 
> have the hardware and the bandwidth, it’s more of a what OS/email/webmail is 
> best of breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also 
> something that can have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam…
> 
>  
> 
> Thoughts?
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[mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Sinclair, John via mailop]

Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.  Trying 
to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, not coming 
up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting my own email 
server for the family.  What's the best of breed these days for small/micro 
servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 1TB total - 
looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, 
might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file 
storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free gmail 
account as a client - looking to only have the family have to keep one username 
(on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely.  I have the 
hardware and the bandwidth, it's more of a what OS/email/webmail is best of 
breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also something that can 
have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam...

Thoughts?
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