Re: [mailop] [E] Gmail Dynamic Email / Impact on Email Ecosystem

[Marcel Becker via mailop]

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 4:46 PM Tobias Fiebig via mailop 
wrote:

The gmail feature 'dynamic email' [1] just flew by me,
>

It's not really "new". It's also not unique to Gmail. Other providers
(including us) support it as well. Brandon already provided the details.
It's actually AMP for email, based on the AMP framework. It's already used
by brands. Increasingly so (although it varies by market) and supported by
an increasing number of ESPs. It's relevant.

There's also a working group at M3AAWG  focused on
the security aspects of "dynamic email" including but not limited to AMP
for email.

 - Marcel
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Re: [mailop] [E] Re: Gmail Dynamic Email / Impact on Email Ecosystem

[Marcel Becker via mailop]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 4:29 PM Michael Peddemors via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

IT also requires one to have the resources of Gmail to implement...


Sender side? MBP side? MUA side? Short answer is: "No". Slightly longer is
"it depends".


> Where they care about every change that occurs.. The security
> implications of the ability to 'change' alone should make you shudder.
>

Yeah, just like any website can "change". I encourage you to dive a little
deeper into the capabilities (and non-capabilities) for that matter ;-)

Every MTA would then have to apply security in a whole new way..
>

No.  Not the MTA anyway.

 mail is meant to be static..
>

Yes, and horses are sufficiently fast and 64kb ought to be enough for
everybody ;-)

- Marcel
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Re: [mailop] Gmail Dynamic Email / Impact on Email Ecosystem

[Michael Peddemors via mailop]

IT also requires one to have the resources of Gmail to implement... 
Where they care about every change that occurs.. The security 
implications of the ability to 'change' alone should make you shudder.


Every MTA would then have to apply security in a whole new way..

Imagine malware that changes links one letter at a time, your previously 
vetted email now has a link to a malware domain.


It's a slippery slope, and as pointed out there are other ways to make 
dynamic content available, mail is meant to be static..


IMHO

On 2022-08-11 16:06, Ángel via mailop wrote:

On 2022-08-11 at 10:55 +, Gellner, Oliver wrote:

In other MUAs they display like normal emails, Id expect that Googles
dynamic emails behave the same way.


They seem to be a text/x-amp-html, and require a text/html or
text/plain fallback, so other clients would simply use the fallback.
At least the design seems robust, enforcing that this new standard is s
trictly followed.

Like Tobias, I also found about them really recently. I am not really
convinced about them so far. Not the way Google implemented them, but
the underlying concept.
I understand why an email that is kept up-to-date can be thought to
make sense in some cases, but a "dynamic email" breaks the concept of
an email that we have been using for the last fifty years.

An email archive used to be similar to an archived physical letter in
that it is immutable. You could go back and read the same content you
viewed a few days ago. With this, you could find it now contains
something different. Even two people receiving the same email could get
shown different content.

This was already possible to some extent by using external images, but
only as a subproduct.

This attempt is a big change on the basics of email, and only time will
tell us if it changes things radically, or ends up discarded.


Regards



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Re: [mailop] Gmail Dynamic Email / Impact on Email Ecosystem

[Ángel via mailop]

On 2022-08-11 at 10:55 +, Gellner, Oliver wrote:
> In other MUAs they display like normal emails, Id expect that Googles
> dynamic emails behave the same way.

They seem to be a text/x-amp-html, and require a text/html or
text/plain fallback, so other clients would simply use the fallback.
At least the design seems robust, enforcing that this new standard is s
trictly followed.

Like Tobias, I also found about them really recently. I am not really
convinced about them so far. Not the way Google implemented them, but
the underlying concept.
I understand why an email that is kept up-to-date can be thought to
make sense in some cases, but a "dynamic email" breaks the concept of
an email that we have been using for the last fifty years.

An email archive used to be similar to an archived physical letter in
that it is immutable. You could go back and read the same content you
viewed a few days ago. With this, you could find it now contains
something different. Even two people receiving the same email could get
shown different content.

This was already possible to some extent by using external images, but
only as a subproduct.

This attempt is a big change on the basics of email, and only time will
tell us if it changes things radically, or ends up discarded.


Regards



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Re: [mailop] free.fr email abuse contact

[Romain via mailop]

If not, you can try https://postmaster.free.fr

Le jeu. 11 août 2022 à 15:49, Kirk MacDonald via mailop 
a écrit :

> If there are any folks from free.fr in France on this list, could they
> please reply to me regarding delivery issues of mail out of sendgrid infra?
> Logs suggests trouble began on August 5th. This relates to delivery of
> second-factor authentication emails sent to free.fr recipients, which may
> be silently being dropped upon delivery.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Kirk MacDonald
> kirk.macdon...@resmed.com
> Information Security Analyst
> Halifax, NS CA
>
>
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[mailop] free.fr email abuse contact

[Kirk MacDonald via mailop]

If there are any folks from free.fr in France on this list, could they please 
reply to me regarding delivery issues of mail out of sendgrid infra? Logs 
suggests trouble began on August 5th. This relates to delivery of second-factor 
authentication emails sent to free.fr recipients, which may be silently being 
dropped upon delivery.


Thank you,

Kirk MacDonald
kirk.macdon...@resmed.com
Information Security Analyst
Halifax, NS CA


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Warning:  Copyright ResMed.  Where the contents of this email and/or attachment 
includes materials prepared by ResMed, the use of those materials is subject 
exclusively to the conditions of engagement between ResMed and the intended 
recipient.  

This communication is confidential and may contain legally privileged 
information.  By the use of email over the Internet or other communication 
systems, ResMed is not waiving either confidentiality of, or legal privilege 
in, the content of the email and of any attachments.  If the recipient of this 
message is not the intended addressee, please call ResMed immediately on 1 
(800) 424-0737 USA.
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Re: [mailop] Gmail Dynamic Email / Impact on Email Ecosystem

[Gellner, Oliver via mailop]

> Am 11.08.2022 um 01:47 schrieb Tobias Fiebig via mailop :
>
> Heho,
> The gmail feature 'dynamic email' [1] just flew by me, and I was somewhat 
> wondering whether this is google proprietary, or if there is some 
> standardization going on (already completed?) which I missed.
> From the product page it currently looks more like an integration in the 
> google ecosystem;

Microsoft Outlook has similar features, of course for Microsofts ecosystem. For 
example email notifications from Yammer (a enterprise social network from 
Microsoft) load a live view of the Yammer webpages inside the email pane of 
Outlook.
In other MUAs they display like normal emails, Id expect that Googles dynamic 
emails behave the same way.

—
BR Oliver


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Re: [mailop] unknown domain in MAIL (outlook.com)

[Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop]

In my experience, most of outlook.com emitted spam mails are from 
compromised accounts, very often at educational institutions who may be 
allocating student accounts en masse with standard passwords (just 
guessing). I report them, but as most large mail providers, they don't seem 
to reply with any meaningful info on whether they stopped the spam and what 
they did.


Cheers,
Hans-Martin

Am 11. August 2022 10:51:10 schrieb ml+mailop--- via mailop 
:



My system is getting spammed by outbound.protection.outlook.com

First they are sending every 10 minutes to the same two unknown
addresses until I blocked the sender (@emss.gov.eg) then it stopped.

Now they are sending to the same addresses using
lr...@incm.gov.uk
as sender -- AFAICT the domain does not exist at all.
Isn't that something which should be checked by them
(it seems such a trivial thing to do)?

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[mailop] unknown domain in MAIL (outlook.com)

[ml+mailop--- via mailop]

My system is getting spammed by outbound.protection.outlook.com

First they are sending every 10 minutes to the same two unknown
addresses until I blocked the sender (@emss.gov.eg) then it stopped.

Now they are sending to the same addresses using
lr...@incm.gov.uk
as sender -- AFAICT the domain does not exist at all.
Isn't that something which should be checked by them
(it seems such a trivial thing to do)?

-- 
Address is valid for this mailing list only, please do not reply
to it directly, but only to the list.
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[mailop] GitHub postmaster contact?

[Mike D via mailop]

Looking for an email contact for an issue impacting inbound mail to 
their employees.

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