Re: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

[Gellner, Oliver via mailop]

On 17.12.2023 at 21:48 Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote:

> On 2023-12-13 16:08, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote:
>>  We're not seeing that error in our mail server logs here in Canada.
>>
>>  The trend seems to be that mail servers worldwide have gradually
>> been adding DKIM signing to all outbound mail, and some are starting
>> to require it of all inbound mail (we're also considering making DKIM
>> signing a requirement for all inbound mail).
>>
>>  Feel free to ask if you have any questions about getting these
>> things set up -- the SPF and DMARC part is very easy, and the DKIM
>> part takes a bit of work that's well worth the effort.
>>
>>  Getting everything configured and tested over a few days or a
>> weekend is a realistic possibility (depending on the size and
>> complexity of your system, of course), and could be a nice gift for
>> your users if it's working before Christmas.
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> do any of you who do not live in Germany have this error message from
>>> GMX and WEB.DE? Or is this an educational measure for German providers only?
>>>
>>> 451-Requested action aborted\n451-Reject due to policy
>>> restrictions.\n451 For explanation visit https://postmaster.gmx.net/de/
>>> https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103
>>>
>>> Hundreds of domains go through our servers, should we now explain to
>>> every customer that if they, as German citizens, want to send an e-mail
>>> to other German citizens, especially if they live with Web or GMX.de,
>>> they must first populate their domains with DKIM entries? Cool thing,
>>> especially so close to Christmas.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>> Andreas

> A bit off topic, but it is always amazing.. rejecting based on no DKIM?
> It's like most new requirements, ever notice that the spammers are 
> implementing these requirements sooner/faster than the real email operators 
> and domains?
> Spammers got SPF down pat a lot faster.. they adopted TLS faster.. List 
> unsubscribe formats, even DNS they nailed it faster than most large 
> companies..
> I still think we as an industry are going down a slippery slope.. Email 
> should not be complicated And those companies with some of the tightest 
> restrictions, are also the source of some of the worst spam..
> The litany of sill acronyms needed to operate an email server, have added 
> layer on top of layer, without truly solving the underlying needs that 
> promoted their use in the first place..
> Are we moving towards a walled garden, where only the largest email providers 
> are allowed to play?


I don't believe that DKIM is a good example for a walled garden, as it is an 
open standard. It's also not necessary that everyone, especially not the end 
users, understand DKIM, but a person who is responsible for running a mail 
server should. So my take on the original question is that it is a reasonable 
expectation that domains are populated with DKIM entries. If you have customers 
that send unauthenticated emails then you should change this quickly, 
regardless of the changes at GMX. Google is introducing a similar requirement 
in one month and I know email service providers that add a significant amount 
of spam points to every unauthenticated incoming message since at least 2017.

Conversely DKIM does not give you a free pass into the inbox. It just allows 
filtering based on domains instead of IP addresses which is a necessary 
improvement in times of email-as-a-service with shared IP space. So if spammers 
implement DKIM as well this won't help them.

--
Best regards
Oliver


dmTECH GmbH
Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe
Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777
dmt...@dm.de * www.dmTECH.de
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Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen
Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser 
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Karlsruhe besuchen, mit uns in einer geschäftlichen Verbindung stehen oder sich 
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Re: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

[Michael Peddemors via mailop]

Wow! Just got back from a week in the sun, and the mailing list has been 
busy..


A bit off topic, but it is always amazing.. rejecting based on no DKIM?

It's like most new requirements, ever notice that the spammers are 
implementing these requirements sooner/faster than the real email 
operators and domains?


Spammers got SPF down pat a lot faster.. they adopted TLS faster.. List 
unsubscribe formats, even DNS they nailed it faster than most large 
companies..


I still think we as an industry are going down a slippery slope.. Email 
should not be complicated And those companies with some of the 
tightest restrictions, are also the source of some of the worst spam..


The litany of sill acronyms needed to operate an email server, have 
added layer on top of layer, without truly solving the underlying needs 
that promoted their use in the first place..


Are we moving towards a walled garden, where only the largest email 
providers are allowed to play?





On 2023-12-13 16:08, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote:

We're not seeing that error in our mail server logs here in Canada.

The trend seems to be that mail servers worldwide have gradually
been adding DKIM signing to all outbound mail, and some are starting
to require it of all inbound mail (we're also considering making DKIM
signing a requirement for all inbound mail).

Feel free to ask if you have any questions about getting these
things set up -- the SPF and DMARC part is very easy, and the DKIM
part takes a bit of work that's well worth the effort.

Getting everything configured and tested over a few days or a
weekend is a realistic possibility (depending on the size and
complexity of your system, of course), and could be a nice gift for
your users if it's working before Christmas.


Hello all,

do any of you who do not live in Germany have this error message from
GMX and WEB.DE? Or is this an educational measure for German providers only?

451-Requested action aborted\n451-Reject due to policy
restrictions.\n451 For explanation visit https://postmaster.gmx.net/de/
https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103

Hundreds of domains go through our servers, should we now explain to
every customer that if they, as German citizens, want to send an e-mail
to other German citizens, especially if they live with Web or GMX.de,
they must first populate their domains with DKIM entries? Cool thing,
especially so close to Christmas.

Kind regards
Andreas








--
"Catch the Magic of Linux..."

Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.
Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic
A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca
"LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd.

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Re: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

[Andreas via mailop]

Hey Nikolas,

thanks for the answer. I will reply to you offlist.

kind regards
Andreas

Am 14.12.2023 um 09:48 schrieb Nikolas Bauer:


Hey Andreas

We are happy to help. I have just sent you an e-mail.

You can always contact our postmaster team via the SMTP error message 
(https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103 
<https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103>) and get help.


Best regards

Nikolas Bauer

Senior Mail Security Engineer

Mail Security Postmaster

1&1 Mail & Media GmbH | Brauerstraße 48 | 76135 Karlsruhe | Deutschland

Hauptsitz Montabaur, Amtsgericht Montabaur, HRB 7666

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Charles, Dana Kraft, Thomas Ludwig

Member of United Internet

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*From: *mailop  on behalf of Andreas via 
mailop 

*Reply to: *Andreas 
*Date: *Wednesday, 13. December 2023 at 22:29
*To: *"mailop@mailop.org" 
*Subject: *[mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de 
and gmx.de


Hello all,

do any of you who do not live in Germany have this error message from 
GMX and WEB.DE? Or is this an educational measure for German providers 
only?


451-Requested action aborted\n451-Reject due to policy 
restrictions.\n451 For explanation visit https://postmaster.gmx.net/de/

https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103

Hundreds of domains go through our servers, should we now explain to 
every customer that if they, as German citizens, want to send an 
e-mail to other German citizens, especially if they live with Web or 
GMX.de, they must first populate their domains with DKIM entries? Cool 
thing, especially so close to Christmas.


Kind regards
Andreas
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Re: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

[Nikolas Bauer via mailop]

Hey Andreas

We are happy to help. I have just sent you an e-mail.

You can always contact our postmaster team via the SMTP error message 
(https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103) and get help.

Best regards

Nikolas Bauer

Senior Mail Security Engineer
Mail Security Postmaster

1&1 Mail & Media GmbH | Brauerstraße 48 | 76135 Karlsruhe | Deutschland
Hauptsitz Montabaur, Amtsgericht Montabaur, HRB 7666

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Charles, Dana Kraft, Thomas Ludwig

Member of United Internet

Diese E-Mail kann vertrauliche und/oder gesetzlich geschützte Informationen 
enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der bestimmungsgemäße Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail 
irrtümlich erhalten haben, unterrichten Sie bitte den Absender und vernichten 
Sie diese E-Mail. Anderen als dem bestimmungsgemäßen Adressaten ist untersagt, 
diese E-Mail zu speichern, weiterzuleiten oder ihren Inhalt auf welche Weise 
auch immer zu verwenden.

This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are 
not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that saving, 
distribution or use of the content of this e-mail in any way is prohibited. If 
you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete the 
e-mail.

From: mailop  on behalf of Andreas via mailop 

Reply to: Andreas 
Date: Wednesday, 13. December 2023 at 22:29
To: "mailop@mailop.org" 
Subject: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de


Hello all,

do any of you who do not live in Germany have this error message from GMX and 
WEB.DE? Or is this an educational measure for German providers only?

451-Requested action aborted\n451-Reject due to policy restrictions.\n451 For 
explanation visit https://postmaster.gmx.net/de/
https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103

Hundreds of domains go through our servers, should we now explain to every 
customer that if they, as German citizens, want to send an e-mail to other 
German citizens, especially if they live with Web or GMX.de, they must first 
populate their domains with DKIM entries? Cool thing, especially so close to 
Christmas.

Kind regards
Andreas


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Re: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

[Carsten Schiefner via mailop]

Morning, Andreas & all -

I can't confirm this: the sending server hasn't DKIM yet deployed, but a test 
email to my gmx.net account nonetheless went through fine.

Best,

-C.

-- 
Von meiner Hängematte aus gesendet.

-Original Message-
From: Andreas via mailop 
To: mailop@mailop.org
Sent: Mi., 13 Dez. 2023 22:30
Subject: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

Hello all,

do any of you who do not live in Germany have this error message from 
GMX and WEB.DE? Or is this an educational measure for German providers only?

451-Requested action aborted\n451-Reject due to policy 
restrictions.\n451 For explanation visit https://postmaster.gmx.net/de/
https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103

Hundreds of domains go through our servers, should we now explain to 
every customer that if they, as German citizens, want to send an e-mail 
to other German citizens, especially if they live with Web or GMX.de, 
they must first populate their domains with DKIM entries? Cool thing, 
especially so close to Christmas.

Kind regards
Andreas

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Re: [mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

[Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop]

We're not seeing that error in our mail server logs here in Canada.

The trend seems to be that mail servers worldwide have gradually 
been adding DKIM signing to all outbound mail, and some are starting 
to require it of all inbound mail (we're also considering making DKIM 
signing a requirement for all inbound mail).

Feel free to ask if you have any questions about getting these 
things set up -- the SPF and DMARC part is very easy, and the DKIM 
part takes a bit of work that's well worth the effort.

Getting everything configured and tested over a few days or a 
weekend is a realistic possibility (depending on the size and 
complexity of your system, of course), and could be a nice gift for 
your users if it's working before Christmas.

> Hello all,
> 
> do any of you who do not live in Germany have this error message from 
> GMX and WEB.DE? Or is this an educational measure for German providers only?
> 
> 451-Requested action aborted\n451-Reject due to policy 
> restrictions.\n451 For explanation visit https://postmaster.gmx.net/de/
> https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103
> 
> Hundreds of domains go through our servers, should we now explain to 
> every customer that if they, as German citizens, want to send an e-mail 
> to other German citizens, especially if they live with Web or GMX.de, 
> they must first populate their domains with DKIM entries? Cool thing, 
> especially so close to Christmas.
> 
> Kind regards
> Andreas
> 
> 


-- 
Postmaster - postmas...@inter-corporate.com
Randolf Richardson - rand...@inter-corporate.com
Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
https://www.inter-corporate.com/


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[mailop] 451-Reject due to policy restrictions from web.de and gmx.de

[Andreas via mailop]

Hello all,

do any of you who do not live in Germany have this error message from 
GMX and WEB.DE? Or is this an educational measure for German providers only?


451-Requested action aborted\n451-Reject due to policy 
restrictions.\n451 For explanation visit https://postmaster.gmx.net/de/

https://postmaster.gmx.net/en/case?c=r0103

Hundreds of domains go through our servers, should we now explain to 
every customer that if they, as German citizens, want to send an e-mail 
to other German citizens, especially if they live with Web or GMX.de, 
they must first populate their domains with DKIM entries? Cool thing, 
especially so close to Christmas.


Kind regards
Andreas

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